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Way Nada

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Re: Late President Marcos To Be Buried in Libingan Ng Mga Bayani?
« Reply #140 on: May 06, 2011, 02:15:35 PM »
Quote
so did marcos played politics as usual.  in fact, he played way, way before…
Reply:

"Naturally politics is playing as usual." That is your quote not mine. But Marcos is not playing politics... he is a dead man. His enemies are playing politics with a dead body. A sort of desecration of the dead.
***

Quote
it follows, actually.  why cast aspersion on something that's unimpeachable?  let's note in the meantime that there are equally gullible people around who swallow hook, line, sinker and whale marcos’s purported 27 medals of heroism.
Reply:

If you have unimpeachable evidence then you must go to the proper venue and complain that Marcos medals are fake. Anyway Gen. Restituto Aguilar I believe will entertain your evidence thus saying; "Those who contest the authenticity of his [Marcos] medals should substantiate their allegations. It shall undergo investigations and should follow a process”. So that once and for all the Marcos medals' issue will come to a stop.

WN

***


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Re: Late President Marcos To Be Buried in Libingan Ng Mga Bayani?
« Reply #141 on: May 06, 2011, 02:26:41 PM »

just because we are agreed on political motivations does not mean that we are agreed about the medals.  besides, his claims to these medals can also be branded as politically motivated, okay?  he capitalized on these to election victory, as you imply.

gillego sourced his information from marcos's superiors at the 14th infantry (please see reply #136).  his report was lent credence by the findings of historian alfred w. mccoy.  here i post again what i've previously posted:   

Marcos’s war hero image collapsed when The New York Times ran an exclusive on January 23, 1986.  He was then wrapping up the election campaign against Cory, widow of Ninoy Aquino. As usual he regaled the crowds with accounts of his hot exploits.  The Times doused cold water on his stories, quoting the US Army description of them as mostly “absurd” and “fraudulent”.  Main source was Alfred W. McCoy, a history professor who was researching records just turned over to the National Archives in Washington. McCoy unearthed two requests by Marcos in 1945 and 1948 for official recognition of Mga Maharlika.  Both were rejected as Army investigators found the claims to be exaggerated.  Ray Hunt Jr., an ex-Army captain who directed guerrilla activities in 1942-44 in Pangasinan, North Luzon, was quoted in the Times article as saying the Maharlika was fictitious.  He said if any unit had operated near his base then, he would have known about it.  The investigators said Marcos even associated with men engaged in “nefarious activity,” like supplying contraband to the Japanese.

The opposition press picked up the Times story. It confirmed what retired Philippine Army Col. Bonifacio Gillego had stated only months before in The Fake Medals of Marcos.  The underground book branded the 27 decorations as outright phonies or awarded through bogus accounts.  Also exposed then was Marcos’s rejected application for war reparation of $595,000. Supposedly it was for the US Army’s commandeering of 2,000 heads of cattle from his (inexistent) family ranch in Mindanao.

Marcos ordered political lieutenants to refute the reports. They came up with a more incredible claim that the medals were for acts in 1941 and 1945, at war’s beginning and end. This only lent more credence to Gillego’s statement that, for Marcos to have fought the 27 battles, he would have been at different places at the same time.


From GOTCHA By Jarius Bondoc (The Philippine Star) Updated April 08, 2011 12:00 AM


http://www.philstar.com
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Way Nada

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Re: Late President Marcos To Be Buried in Libingan Ng Mga Bayani?
« Reply #142 on: May 06, 2011, 02:42:24 PM »

Quote
horse aside, and talking of an iota (which the dictionary says is "a very small quantity or degree; a jot; a particle"), i hereby offer the following iotas:

Reply:

Let me see your small evidence.


Quote
Posing as the most decorated Filipino soldier of World War II, Ferdinand Marcos foisted 33 medals and awards.  Bonifacio Gillego, in opposing Marcos’s dictatorship, exposed in 1982:

Reply:

So... who is Bonifacio Gillego? Is he a government agent authorize to authenticate the medals of Marcos?
***
Quote
• Eleven of the 33 were given in 1963, nearly 20 years after the War, when Marcos was Senate President girding to run for President.  Ten of the 11 were given on the same day, December 20. Three of the ten unusually were given under only one General Order.


• One award was given on Marcos’s 55th birthday, September 17, 1972, when he was President, four days before he imposed martial law.

• Eight of the 33 “American and Philippine medals,” as listed by Marcos’s Office of Media Affairs, were actually campaign ribbons given to all participants in the defense of Bataan and in the resistance.

• Awards are duplicated for the same action on the same day and place.

• One is a special award from the Veterans Federation of the Philippines.

Reply:

Where is the declaration of Jarius Bondoc that Marcos medals are fake? Nada!

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Re: Late President Marcos To Be Buried in Libingan Ng Mga Bayani?
« Reply #143 on: May 06, 2011, 02:42:52 PM »
 medals should substantiate their allegations. It shall undergo investigations and should follow a process”. So that once and for all the Marcos medals' issue will come to a stop.

WN

***


way nada, if your logic turns this way, then i am just wasting my time on this discussion.  but let me try to follow your logic anyway, no matter how different it is from mine and no matter how i insult myself in the process.  

if you must tell me to go to the proper venue to complain that marcos's medals are fake, then i must also tell you to go and bury marcos yourself and give him the proper hero's burial.  better still, jump into the grave and have yourself be buried with him.

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Re: Late President Marcos To Be Buried in Libingan Ng Mga Bayani?
« Reply #144 on: May 06, 2011, 02:54:22 PM »

Quote
so?  just because he didn’t divulge it at once his statement is rendered false?  a late confession does not make a confession false.  oh, it wasn’t marcos who staged the ambush.  like any lackey obeying his boss, enrile himself arranged it upon marcos’s orders.

Reply:

His statement is doubtful because it is a long drawn second opinion. It can be false! It was spoken at a time when his life was already in danger.

Quote
wow!  this party and ideology, marcos’s bogeymen, had been sidelined since the fall of the berlin wall, and you still believe they’re a threat?  come on, do you really believe until now, more than two decades later, the propaganda of the marcos years, with the controlled media as the conveyors?  what decade are you living in?


Reply:

Yes they are a threat. You know why? Because they still retain an armed group in the hills. And unknown to some they are already in government posing as progressives.

WN
***

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Re: Late President Marcos To Be Buried in Libingan Ng Mga Bayani?
« Reply #145 on: May 06, 2011, 02:54:33 PM »

That subject corpse is the remains of one of the most corrupt leaders in the history of mankind is a well-settled fact. Enough said.
...than to speak out and remove all doubt." - Abraham Lincoln

Way Nada

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Re: Late President Marcos To Be Buried in Libingan Ng Mga Bayani?
« Reply #146 on: May 06, 2011, 04:28:34 PM »
Quote
just because we are agreed on political motivations does not mean that we are agreed about the medals.  besides, his claims to these medals can also be branded as politically motivated, okay?  he capitalized on these to election victory, as you imply.

Reply:

The bone of contention here is; "if the Marcos medals are fake or not". If the issue is politically motivated as agreed by you then it is clear as the noon day sun that the Marcos medals are truly genuine. In his case he did not claim to the medals but they were awarded to him. ****

Quote
gillego sourced his information from marcos's superiors at the 14th infantry (please see reply #136).  his report was lent credence by the findings of historian alfred w. mccoy.  here i post again what i've previously posted:
 


Reply:

"Sourced his information from marcos's superiors?" You see... they are not the right people to be believed. Gillego's information must come first hand from the archivists of the US and the Philippine military with a certification saying that; they have no information on record awarding war medals to Marcos. Thus debunking the 27 medals of Marcos as fake. And then... tapos na ang boksing if you have this certification. ***


Quote
Marcos’s war hero image collapsed when The New York Times ran an exclusive on January 23, 1986.  He was then wrapping up the election
Quote
campaign against Cory, widow of Ninoy Aquino. As usual he regaled the crowds with accounts of his hot exploits.  The Times doused cold water on his stories, quoting the US Army description of them as mostly “absurd” and “fraudulent”.  Main source was Alfred W. McCoy, a history professor who was researching records just turned over to the National Archives in Washington. McCoy unearthed two requests by Marcos in 1945 and 1948 for official recognition of Mga Maharlika.  Both were rejected as Army investigators found the claims to be exaggerated.  Ray Hunt Jr., an ex-Army captain who directed guerrilla activities in 1942-44 in Pangasinan, North Luzon, was quoted in the Times article as saying the Maharlika was fictitious.  He said if any unit had operated near his base then, he would have known about it.  The investigators said Marcos even [/quo associated with men engaged in “nefarious activity,” like supplying contraband to the Japanese.

Reply:

If Alfred W. McCoy "unearthed two requests by Marcos in 1945 and 1948 for official recognition of Mga Maharlika" why he not able to look into Marcos war medals when he had accessed the National Archives in Washington? Why did the National Archives curator allowed McCoy access to Marcos war records and denied Bonifacio Gillego when the later a Filipino has more interest in Marcos war records than McCoy?

Who is Alfred W. McCoy?

Alfred W. McCoy as the report said is a professor of history. His biodata states that he authored many books and researcher of history in Southeast Asia and elsewhere in the world. His biodata says more that he is a researcher on Philipine history and government but I failed to find if he wrote about the war records of Marcos... except a news opinion printed in NYT. ***
Marcos ordered political lieutenants to refute the reports. They came up with a more incredible claim that the medals were for acts in 1941 and 1945, at war’s beginning and end. This only lent more credence to Gillego’s statement that, for Marcos to have fought the 27 battles, he would have been at different places at the same time.


Reply:

Some medals were awarded during the war and some after the war. What is wrong with that?


Way Nada

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Re: Late President Marcos To Be Buried in Libingan Ng Mga Bayani?
« Reply #147 on: May 06, 2011, 04:41:00 PM »

I'm not insisting on my logic. It's you who is persistent. I am siding with Enrile, Maceda, Gen. Douglas MacArthur, Gen, Jonathan Wainwright, the US and the Philippine governments that the Marcos medals are genuine. That is simple logic.***

WN


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Re: Late President Marcos To Be Buried in Libingan Ng Mga Bayani?
« Reply #148 on: May 06, 2011, 04:48:03 PM »

You see... you were in Davao city, it means Cory is popular in cities but when it comes to probinsiya or countryside the people there are for Marcos.

WN

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Re: Late President Marcos To Be Buried in Libingan Ng Mga Bayani?
« Reply #149 on: May 06, 2011, 05:05:32 PM »
Quote
Tho it may be argued and discussed that Marcos was corrupt etc etc, in the end, the man authored over 90 Republic Acts, all of which are still in effect to this day.



Reply:

There is no government that is free from corruption but media in other countries don't use the issue of corruption to put down their government officials if they have no evidence. If Marcos authored over 90 Republic Acts... there are more. Marcos had crafted more than 7,800 Presidential Decrees and other legal issuances – from the crib to the grave, so to speak. They are still in effect until today except those that pertain to Martial Law. If Marcos is an evil person our new leaders in government should have repealed all the laws of Marcos.

He is a great lawgiver second only to Moses.

WN

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Re: Late President Marcos To Be Buried in Libingan Ng Mga Bayani?
« Reply #150 on: May 06, 2011, 05:23:01 PM »

Quote
So you expect the dictator to conduct a clean and honest election to find out whether or not the people he is oppressing would want to throw him out? You expect him to honor the voice of the people? Or ar you saying that the people have no recourse at all and therefore will just have to accept their misfortune and stoically wait for the oppressor to die?


Reply:

Let me say this... there's no need for Marcos to cheat in an election. Nobody can defeat him because he had a complete political machinery. You must also distinguish who the people felt being oppressed by Martial Law. There are only a few. They are businessmen who are antagonistic to Marcos laws on business, the media, the academe, [professors and students] and intellectuals like lawyers... but the vast majority of the people loved Marcos because the Marcos system was pro poor.


Quote

What some dictators do is cling to legitimacy by insisting on the letter of the law (which oftentimes was made by them)--the spirit of the law and the sentiments and welfare of their people be damned.

Reply:

Marcos did not cling to legitimacy unlike GMA whose presidency is questioned until now. Marcos was a brilliant lawyer and his Martial Law presidency is legal because it is provided in the constitution.

WN

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Re: Late President Marcos To Be Buried in Libingan Ng Mga Bayani?
« Reply #151 on: May 06, 2011, 07:26:22 PM »

"If you can't convince them, confuse them." --Harry S. Truman

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Re: Late President Marcos To Be Buried in Libingan Ng Mga Bayani?
« Reply #152 on: May 06, 2011, 07:27:22 PM »

"When a finger points to the moon, the imbecile looks at the finger." --Chinese Proverb

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Re: Late President Marcos To Be Buried in Libingan Ng Mga Bayani?
« Reply #153 on: May 06, 2011, 08:20:04 PM »


usa ka dektador,,maayo iapil tong mga heneral niya og lobong,,
Since its blood was not taken into the Holy Place, you should have eaten the goat in the sanctuary area, as I commanded." Leviticus 10:18

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Re: Late President Marcos To Be Buried in Libingan Ng Mga Bayani?
« Reply #154 on: May 06, 2011, 08:27:37 PM »


Daghan ra ba pud kuno to siyag gipapatay...

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Re: Late President Marcos To Be Buried in Libingan Ng Mga Bayani?
« Reply #155 on: May 06, 2011, 08:29:35 PM »

nakadungog bitaw pod ko ana.....so unsa man gyu'y atong buhaton ani ron....
βυγσαψ

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Re: Late President Marcos To Be Buried in Libingan Ng Mga Bayani?
« Reply #156 on: May 06, 2011, 08:38:53 PM »


Hmm, magpatambag kaha ta ni Prof. Islander?

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Re: Late President Marcos To Be Buried in Libingan Ng Mga Bayani?
« Reply #157 on: May 06, 2011, 08:51:51 PM »

di ko mosampit ato kay basin madukol ug luwag ato.....


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Re: Late President Marcos To Be Buried in Libingan Ng Mga Bayani?
« Reply #158 on: May 06, 2011, 08:53:58 PM »

maka ulit kon madukol og luwag bai,,,

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Re: Late President Marcos To Be Buried in Libingan Ng Mga Bayani?
« Reply #159 on: May 06, 2011, 08:54:41 PM »

makahakog?



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Bongbong Marcos' Statement at Libingan ng mga Bayani

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