Author Topic: Late President Marcos To Be Buried in Libingan Ng Mga Bayani? (Read 46496 times)

Way Nada · « **Reply #100 on:** May 05, 2011, 07:59:40 PM »

islander wrote:

"two examples stand out. the u.s. army never acknowledged the existence of the guerrilla unit named â€œang maharlikaâ€ and marcos was never rewarded for his claimed bravery at the battle of bessang pass."

Reply:

The best piece of information whether the "Ang Mga Maharlika" headed by Marcos is a non existent guerilla unit during the war should come not from baseless ideas of thought from authors of books, newspaper reports or issues coming out of political innuendoes. To have a credible information about Marcos' Maharlika unit and his exploit during the war should come from a source in the military especially the history of WW-II. In this case there is no argument that Marcos records are in the military.

islander wrote:

consider this:

"Marcosâ€™s daring war adventures first saw print in a 1948 magazine series. The young lawyer supposedly had formed a 9,200-strong guerrilla group called Mga Maharlika (The Nobles) in North Luzon. Unmindful of danger, he led more than 300 skirmishes with the mighty Japanese Imperial Army, for which he was decorated 27 times. Thus did Marcos earn in 1947 a post in the Philippine commission that lobbied with the US for veteransâ€™ benefits. Riding on the daredevil acclaim, he handily won in 1949 a congressional seat."

Reply:

You are right! If you have doubts about what you wrote then consult the military historian and not the newspaper writer.

WN

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Way Nada · « **Reply #101 on:** May 05, 2011, 08:03:14 PM »

...and he was driven out by the people.

Election by the people carries a heavier weight of credibility than a people's uprising. In our constitution election is the legal way to become president.

WN

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Way Nada · « **Reply #102 on:** May 05, 2011, 08:16:38 PM »

hehehe...unsa mai imong ika sulti sa SNAP ELECTION, pildi pero gusto pa magpabilin sa pwesto? ngutana lang!

Mao pud ni resulta sa imong "bias" nga panghuna-huna batok ni Marcos. Pildi si Cory sa eleksyon. Si Marcos ang hing-daug. Di jud mahitabo nga modaug si Cory ni Marcos adtong panahona... ngano? Tungod kay si Marcos nakagamut na sa mga probinsiya. Si Cory nailhan lang sa mga ciudad. Pero sa mga balita sa mantalaan kontra kaajo ni Marcos ug mao ni imong gibasihan. Ang eleksyon kinahanglan naay imong organisasyon [political machinery] para ka modaug Si Cory wa'y makinaryas; si Marcos tibook Pilipinas ang iyan organisasyon. Tanan mga mayores sa probinsiya tua dapig ni Marcos.

Unsaon pagdaug ni Cory?

WN

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hubag bohol · « **Reply #103 on:** May 05, 2011, 08:39:12 PM »

Election by the people carries a heavier weight of credibility than a people's uprising. In our constitution election is the legal way to become president.

WN

And what's the legal way of deposing a dictator?

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bol-anon quo nyur! · « **Reply #104 on:** May 05, 2011, 09:16:52 PM »

Mao pud ni resulta sa imong "bias" nga panghuna-huna batok ni Marcos. Pildi si Cory sa eleksyon. Si Marcos ang hing-daug. Di jud mahitabo nga modaug si Cory ni Marcos adtong panahona... ngano? Tungod kay si Marcos nakagamut na sa mga probinsiya. Si Cory nailhan lang sa mga ciudad. Pero sa mga balita sa mantalaan kontra kaajo ni Marcos ug mao ni imong gibasihan. Ang eleksyon kinahanglan naay imong organisasyon [political machinery] para ka modaug Si Cory wa'y makinaryas; si Marcos tibook Pilipinas ang iyan organisasyon. Tanan mga mayores sa probinsiya tua dapig ni Marcos.

Unsaon pagdaug ni Cory

WN

hehehe, mao bah?

ang imong gisulti mahintungod ani nga snap election, "LAYO RA KAAYO SA TINO-OD"

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islander · « **Reply #105 on:** May 06, 2011, 04:08:45 AM »

islander wrote:

"the irony in the life of marcos is that he made his own life ironic. there's no doubt about his sincerity when he ran for the top office of the land in the beginning. along the way, he fell victim, or he allowed himself to be victimized, by the heady addiction of power, and ended up refusing to go down by whatever means. he was a despot, no matter how we look at it, and like most other despots in the world, he wanted to keep power within his family."

Reply:

This is also the irony if we believe too much of the newpapers who cast aspersion and bias opinion against Marcos. If you have no doubt in his sincerity of running for the highest office of the land then it's not addiction. His declaration of Martial Law was to save the Philippines from communist despotism. In 1972 it's either Marcos dictatorship or communist despotism.

you forget that during marcos's two-decade rule he controlled the media for over half of the period. one of the first things he did after he declared martial law was the closure of all media outlets. these slowly resurfaced when it was made sure that they would toe the government line. add the fact that some outlets were taken over by his close associates (a kinder term for cronies), like roberto benedicto, and abs-cbn of the lopezes and rpn came under direct government management, among others. and they cast aspersion against marcos? come on.

your declaration that martial law's purpose was to save the country from communist despotism is those media's line. yet you don't believe in the media? how can you negate yourself?

islander wrote:

"the fact that he had a memo prepared for his wife to take over his presidency of the land is not a media invention, as we may know."

Reply:

It's a media invention and there is no memo of that kind. I think the government introduced by Marcos is new to us and most do not understand how it works. We are being misled by the media that if Marcos dies Imelda will take over. No... it is not that way a parliamentary system works. Cesar Virata who was the prime minister will call for an election.

it is not a media invention. neither is your claim that it's a media invention an invention of the media because it is your invention. yes, cesar virata was the prime minister then who will call for an election, when told by marcos to do so.

islander wrote:

"whatever wrong values were brought along by our colonizers have nothing to do with his decision to stay on and on and on."

Reply:

It was not his decision to stay on forever. He was elected by the people.

WN

if it wasn't, why didn't he simply go down and not run again after two terms because in the first place that was all that the 1935 constitution allowed him? by 1972, he was already on his second and last term as president. political analysts were already wagging that he was bound to stay longer. everything in him, words and deeds, led those keen enough to understand human nature that it wasn't in him to give up power that easily.

1969 elections

marcos wins a second term, a first in philippine history, in an election allegedly marred by violence, massive cheating, and heavy spending on marcos's part.

1971 constitutional convention

When news broke out that Marcos planned to amend the constitution, allowing him to run for a third term in the presidential elections of 1973, student-led protests erupted in the streets, in what has since become known as the First Quarter Storm of 1970. Later, student movements also led the Diliman Commune of February 1971. Despite the violent protests, the Constitutional Convention still convened in June 1971.
http://pcij.org/

1986 snap elections

The snap elections were finally held on 7 February 1986, with Cory Aquino and Salvador â€œDoyâ€ Laurel running against Marcos and Aurelio Tolentino for the presidency and the vice-presidency. The heavily-anticipated elections were marred by vote-buying, oppression, and fraudulent results; with Commission on Elections (COMELEC) results were in favor of Marcos while the National Movement for Free Elections (NAMFREL) results were in favor of Aquino. In protest, thirty computer operators walk out of the COMELEC tabulation center during the tabulation two days after the election.

One of the most brutal incidents that happened in connection with the snap elections was the killing of lawyer Evelio Javier, opposition ex-governor of Antique, on 11 February 1986. Javier was chased and shot to death in broad daylight at the provincial capitol. The assassination was considered as one of the tipping points that led to the revolution. At his funeral mass, the official statement of the Catholic Bishops' Conference of the Philippines was read, condemning the elections. (wikipedia)

if these are still media inventions for you and you are therefore inclined not to believe, how does catholic church invention suit you?

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islander · « **Reply #106 on:** May 06, 2011, 04:29:10 AM »

If Ka Terry is 51 now, he was 12 in 1972. Hmm, precocious kid...

either ka terry was a child soldier (horrors!)

or

way nada (with due respect) copied this directly from a history book published more than a decade ago (this must be a history book because he doesn't believe in media reports, though i can see that the reporter he names is one jo clemente of the inquirer)...

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Lorenzo · « **Reply #107 on:** May 06, 2011, 04:35:16 AM »

This is a very interesting discourse. Thanks Way Nada, Islander, Manong Hubs and all the rest.

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islander · « **Reply #108 on:** May 06, 2011, 07:32:34 AM »

This is a very interesting discourse. Thanks Way Nada, Islander, Manong Hubs and all the rest.

most welcome, manoy lorenz.

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Way Nada · « **Reply #109 on:** May 06, 2011, 07:56:21 AM »

And what's the legal way of deposing a dictator?

Again it is always in an election. Remember revolution is always illegal.

WN

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Way Nada · « **Reply #110 on:** May 06, 2011, 08:00:31 AM »

If Ka Terry is 51 now, he was 12 in 1972. Hmm, precocious kid...

Maybe he was a teenager at that time. The book was written not this year of course.

WN

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Lorenzo · « **Reply #111 on:** May 06, 2011, 08:06:13 AM »

Again it is always in an election. Remember revolution is always illegal.

WN

aha! Your post reminds me of the famous jest Francois la Rochefoucauld-Liancourt once said, "â€œThe young are generally full of revolt, and are often pretty revolting about it.â€

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Lorenzo · « **Reply #112 on:** May 06, 2011, 08:10:29 AM »

Way Nada, I would like to share a quote from from Shakespeare with you, "The evil that men do lives after them; the good is oft interred with their bones."

Tho it may be argued and discussed that Marcos was corrupt etc etc, in the end, the man authored over 90 Republic Acts, all of which are still in effect to this day.

I would like to share a rhetorical question to the rest in here: If he was so bad and if his presence in the Philippines was negative, then why didn't the presidential administrations after Marcos repudiate the some 92 Republic Acts that Marcos authored?

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Lorenzo · « **Reply #113 on:** May 06, 2011, 08:21:55 AM »

islander wrote:

"the philippine free press magazine has always been a critic of any wrongdoings of any administration, marcos’s or not, long before anyone of us here at tb was probably born. it is not as if its opinion makers (the columnists) focused only on marcos’s time. it did have more of marcos, because there was more to write about him considering the number of years he had stayed at malacañang."

Reply:

The PFP should understand that publishing the "truth is always an overmatch" for lies and falsehood. But like the Philippine Free Press whether the disputed issue is a lie doesn't matter as long as contending parties pay the PFP well. The ethical point here is to rectify what had been published as lies and falsehood. But not for the PFP!

Before Martial Law when Ninoy Aquino's popularity as a critic of Marcos got hold of dossiers pertaining to Muslims massacred [This was known as the Jabidah Massacre.] by the military in Corregidor the PFP and other anti Marcos newspapers bannered the story without even bothering to investigate whether there is truth to their story. Ninoy in a privilege speech spoke of a massacre in congress and that a certain recruit named Arula who survived the massacre was picked up by fishermen in Manila Bay. This was not true and Ninoy believing his own lies went to Sulo to inquire about the person Arula after his speech in congress and he cannot find such a person.

Marcos allegedly signed an approval to recruit Muslims to be trained clandestinely by the military to sabotage Sabah. In an act of treachery in the person of Ninoy; he divulged to the world of a massacre of muslim in Corregidor. The story of a massacre was a myth creating a crisis for the Philippines when the Australian and the New Zealand navies were deployed right in front of Palawan in defense of Malaysia... an ally in the British commonwealth. The British deployed also the Gurkha Fighters in Sabah to help Malaysia in case the Philippines invade Sabah or North Borneo.

The Philippine government apologized to the Malaysian and the British Commonwealth saying that it was only part of the free rolling Philippine press. But the PFP and other anti Marcos newspapers never rectify their story.

WN

The Malaysians (with the help of the British Forces and Australian Forces) was able to defeat the Indonesian-Malaysian Konfrontasi. The result of which led to Sukarno's loss of legitimacy and an administration change in Indonesia.

I would deign to add that Marcos, who was a law bar top-knotcher, was not as stupid as Sukarno in engaging the Malaysians (with their Commonwealth clout). Tho the state of Malaysia is a British invention and despite North Borneo's historical relations with the Philippines, Marcos knew there really was nothing he could do after Malaysia proved itself that it could defend her right to national sovereignty.

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islander · « **Reply #114 on:** May 06, 2011, 08:45:19 AM »

islander wrote:

"the philippine free press magazine has always been a critic of any wrongdoings of any administration, marcosâ€™s or not, long before anyone of us here at tb was probably born. it is not as if its opinion makers (the columnists) focused only on marcosâ€™s time. it did have more of marcos, because there was more to write about him considering the number of years he had stayed at malacaÃ±ang."

Reply:

The PFP should understand that publishing the "truth is always an overmatch" for lies and falsehood. But like the Philippine Free Press whether the disputed issue is a lie doesn't matter as long as contending parties pay the PFP well. The ethical point here is to rectify what had been published as lies and falsehood. But not for the PFP!

donâ€™t tell me it was wrong for the philippine free press magazine (which was established in 1907) to honor marcos as man of the year in 1965.

meanwhile, here's a little backgrounder that may be worth our while:

â€œSince 1946, our father has exposed the corruption of Philippine politics through every administration. Having defied the moves of Marcos to impose martial law, he was, upon the declaration of martial law in 1972, arrested and detained. The Philippines Free Press was shut down, and its assets were sold to a Marcos crony. In 1985, however, our father resumed the publication of the Philippines Free Press to support the candidacy of Corazon Cojuangco Aquino - even in the teeth of military censorship.â€ (Enrique L. Locsin on Teodoro M. Locsin Sr.)

http://www.glphils.org/kinship/

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islander · « **Reply #115 on:** May 06, 2011, 08:54:59 AM »

Before Martial Law when Ninoy Aquino's popularity as a critic of Marcos got hold of dossiers pertaining to Muslims massacred [This was known as the Jabidah Massacre.] by the military in Corregidor the PFP and other anti Marcos newspapers bannered the story without even bothering to investigate whether there is truth to their story. Ninoy in a privilege speech spoke of a massacre in congress and that a certain recruit named Arula who survived the massacre was picked up by fishermen in Manila Bay. This was not true and Ninoy believing his own lies went to Sulo to inquire about the person Arula after his speech in congress and he cannot find such a person.

jibin arula is real, alive and well. if indeed as you claim ninoy didnâ€™t find him when he went to sulu, why, of course, if i were arula, i would not trust any government man to see me. iâ€™d be too paranoid by then to even believe that the government man in the person of ninoy may even be followed by some military sniper out to finish me off.

Jibin Arula, lone survivor of the Jabidah Massacre
He's the one in the middle of the photo, in the light blue shirt.

at the time of the jabidah massacre in 1968, jibin arula was 27 years old.

really, way nada, sir, it only takes a few minutes and some patience to browse the internet to verify these things. i personally would not rely on my own figment of imagination, no matter how colorful it may be, just to make myself feel right about my personal biases.

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hubag bohol · « **Reply #116 on:** May 06, 2011, 09:00:05 AM »

And what's the legal way of deposing a dictator?

Again it is always in an election. Remember revolution is always illegal.

WN

So you expect the dictator to conduct a clean and honest election to find out whether or not the people he is oppressing would want to throw him out? You expect him to honor the voice of the people? Or ar you saying that the people have no recourse at all and therefore will just have to accept their misfortune and stoically wait for the oppressor to die?

What some dictators do is cling to legitimacy by insisting on the letter of the law (which oftentimes was made by them)--the spirit of the law and the sentiments and welfare of their people be damned.

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islander · « **Reply #117 on:** May 06, 2011, 09:04:32 AM »

Marcos allegedly signed an approval to recruit Muslims to be trained clandestinely by the military to sabotage Sabah. In an act of treachery in the person of Ninoy; he divulged to the world of a massacre of muslim in Corregidor. The story of a massacre was a myth creating a crisis for the Philippines when the Australian and the New Zealand navies were deployed right in front of Palawan in defense of Malaysia... an ally in the British commonwealth. The British deployed also the Gurkha Fighters in Sabah to help Malaysia in case the Philippines invade Sabah or North Borneo.

The Philippine government apologized to the Malaysian and the British Commonwealth saying that it was only part of the free rolling Philippine press. But the PFP and other anti Marcos newspapers never rectify their story.

WN

the philippine government apologized in embarrassment, knowing that the secret plan to invade sabah (it wasn't to sabotage) was secret no more because of ninoy, will not have any foreign help, even from the u.s., which despite bilateral military agreements is wont to side with the british. we didnâ€™t stand a chance. to supposedly continue keeping the operation secret (face-saving at the expense of lives), the trainees were allegedly massacred. the lone survivor, the one who came out alive to tell the tale, is real and alive and well, as you can see.

Jabidah Massacre survivor to join anniversary rites

By Jocelyn Uy
Philippine Daily Inquirer
First Posted 22:49:00 03/17/2008

MANILA, Philippines -- An emblem that commemorates the scores of Moro youths killed in the Jabidah massacre 40 years ago will be unveiled on Tuesday at the Kindley Airfield on Corregidor Island, the scene of the atrocity, according to a Muslim group.

The gruesome Jabidah Massacre was believed to have sparked the Muslim rebellion. According to the MindaNews web site, it is the reckoning date of the founding of the Moro National Liberation Front (MNLF) although its actual creation was on a much later date.

The event refers to the killings of about 60 Muslim youths trained to invade Sabah by henchmen of the late dictator President Ferdinand Marcos on March 18, 1968.

Only one survived to tell the tale, Jibin Arula, who is expected to lead anniversary rites by the Mindanao Peoplesâ€™ Caucus on Corregidor Island on Tuesday.

If Arula would be able to join the group, it would be his first time to set foot on Corregidor since the massacre.

More at http://opinion.inquirer.net/

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islander · « **Reply #118 on:** May 06, 2011, 09:15:09 AM »

islander wrote:

"when the philippine free press points out that he â€œcontrived to suppress [that] freedomâ€, it meant that marcos took away the democratic freedom that was known by the filipino people, that freedom for which those soldiers both dead and living fought for during world war 2,..."

Reply:

I think you are wrong. He did not contrive to suppress our freedom but the communists did. The bombing of Plaza Miranda created the situation as attested to by Cor. Victor Corpuz... after the fall of Marcos when he returned to his unit in the AFP. Ex senator Jovito Salonga a political opponent of Marcos accused him as the mastermind in the Plaza Miranda bombing; but after listening to accounts of the bombing by former communists Romulo Kintanar who returned to the fold of the law saying that; Plaza Miranda bombing was the brainchild of the communists... he [Salonga] stops his accusation.

i think iâ€™m not wrong; iâ€™m just looking at things without myopia. how can people of another ideology who are not in power ever have the power to suppress a whole countryâ€™s freedom? did the communists do away with the writ of habeas corpus? did they suppress the press? let us grant that the communists may have terrified the people, especially those in the countryside, but suppress our freedom? they were too far away from the reins of power to be able to do that. have you heard of the word â€˜logicâ€™?

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islander · « **Reply #119 on:** May 06, 2011, 09:26:52 AM »

By the way... Romulo Kintanar was executed by the Ka Rosal liquidation squad being a traitor to the communist cause.

sure, that was some series of headlines in those days, courtesy of the media. kintanarâ€™s execution needed all the media exposure it could get as points for the government in the same way that osama bin ladenâ€™s assassination now is earning media mileage and points for the u.s.

so kintanar was liquidated for being a traitor, but so did some non-communists who criticized the marcos government also inexplicably disappear forever. (foremost was one-time presidential confidante and press secretary primitivo mijares, author of 'the conjugal dictatorship of ferdinand and imelda marcos'. there were unexplained disappearances of an estimated 10 thousand others, all allegedlly against the marcos dictatorship.)

it doesnâ€™t follow that just because one side is wrong the other is right.

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islander · « **Reply #120 on:** May 06, 2011, 09:31:53 AM »

islander wrote:

"first with the suspension of the writ of habeas corpus, then by martial law, and later by instituting constitutional change (through a rubber stamp constitutional convention) to continue to hold the reins of power."

Reply:

The writ of habeas corpus was suspended because Marcos knew about the Plaza Miranda bombing through intelligence reports that it was a prelude of things worse to come. The landing of arms shipment from China aboard M/V Karagatan off the coast of Degoyo Pt. in Luzon was one factor in the declaration of Martial Law. Here is an excerpt of a book narated by a crew member of M/V Karagatan named Ka Terry reported by Jo Clemente of the Inquirer;

"WE STAYED for 10 days at the Chinese naval base playing basketball while they took care of our fishing vessel and loaded boxes of M-14 rifles and ammunitions. In between, we were taught how to use the AK-47 and the anti-aircraft launcher. That could have been the next shipment."

That was Ka Terry speaking in flawless Kapampangan as he described their brief stay in China in 1972. He was part of the crew of the MV Karagatan, the vessel that was tasked with delivering arms for the underground New People's Army in the Philippines.

Ka Terry is now 51 years old.

and just because there was an arms shipment for the communists the whole countryâ€™s freedom needed to be suppressed? where was our then commander-in-chiefâ€™s military? note that itâ€™s the media that divulged this (according to you), and suddenly, you believe the media despite your repeated claims that theyâ€™re not worth believing?

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islander · « **Reply #121 on:** May 06, 2011, 09:51:42 AM »

The Malaysians (with the help of the British Forces and Australian Forces) was able to defeat the Indonesian-Malaysian Konfrontasi. The result of which led to Sukarno's loss of legitimacy and an administration change in Indonesia.

I would deign to add that Marcos, who was a law bar top-knotcher, was not as stupid as Sukarno in engaging the Malaysians (with their Commonwealth clout). Tho the state of Malaysia is a British invention and despite North Borneo's historical relations with the Philippines, Marcos knew there really was nothing he could do after Malaysia proved itself that it could defend her right to national sovereignty.

and that's why those trainees had to be silenced forever?

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Way Nada · « **Reply #122 on:** May 06, 2011, 09:59:45 AM »

Quote:

you forget that during marcos's two-decade rule he controlled the media for over half of the period. one of the first things he did after he declared martial law was the closure of all media outlets. these slowly resurfaced when it was made sure that they would toe the government line. add the fact that some outlets were taken over by his close associates (a kinder term for cronies), like roberto benedicto, and abs-cbn of the lopezes and rpn came under direct government management, among others. and they cast aspersion against marcos? come on.

your declaration that martial law's purpose was to save the country from communist despotism is those media's line. yet you don't believe in the media? how can you negate yourself?

Reply:

Martial Law is emergency government therefore those publishers who were antagonistic to Martial Law were detained and their newspapers closed or were taken over by the government. Their closure was not for long. It opened again with a new face lift and with a new horizon, so to speak. His purpose was not to control but to regulate the media. I believe it was also good for the people. Why?

Here is my explanation;

The media before Martial Law and in the post Martial Law media don't look any different. They are irresponsible media. In our constitution it says; "No law shall be passed abridging the freedom of speech, of expression or of the press". With this constitutional provision as their protection... they become as chaotic and as rambunctious media making themselves look like an unstoppable train on its track. Who cares? They can easily lambast and castigate politicians or other persons by the lure of the color of money. We think that our system is democratic but we are also well-known worldwide that there are more than many journalists killed if we are compared to some third world countries.

Marcos was right... imagine they are more powerful than our elected officials and the president because we are to follow regulations.

* * *

Quote:

it is not a media invention. neither is your claim that it's a media invention an invention of the media because it is your invention. yes, cesar virata was the prime minister then who will call for an election, when told by marcos to do so.

Reply:

Your thinking is too extremist. It's a media invention because there is nothing in the constitution that says he [Marcos] can write a memo to appoint a new president. The Marcos government is parliamentary and the media misled the people... maybe because of their hatred towards Marcos they kept away from the people the information on how a parliamentary form of government works.

When Marcos dies Cesar Virata as Prime Minister will call for a snap election. There is no such thing as a memo to be followed. By the way... snap election is parliamentary terminology.

* * *

WN

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islander · « **Reply #123 on:** May 06, 2011, 10:09:46 AM »

Way Nada, I would like to share a quote from from Shakespeare with you, "The evil that men do lives after them; the good is oft interred with their bones."

Tho it may be argued and discussed that Marcos was corrupt etc etc, in the end, the man authored over 90 Republic Acts, all of which are still in effect to this day.

I would like to share a rhetorical question to the rest in here: If he was so bad and if his presence in the Philippines was negative, then why didn't the presidential administrations after Marcos repudiate the some 92 Republic Acts that Marcos authored?

my dear manoy lorenz, no one's saying here that his presidency was all negative. besides, we're tackling here his burial as a hero, not his presidency or the republic acts he "wrote" or the performance of the other presidents after him.

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islander · « **Reply #124 on:** May 06, 2011, 10:45:43 AM »

islander wrote:

"isn't it that the pff only reported what was going on? naturally, it was politics as usual. itâ€™s not as if we donâ€™t know that political campaigns in our political culture will not always bear the mark of mutual mudslinging. it wasnâ€™t as if marcos and his minions didnâ€™t undertake their own negative tirades against their political enemies. remember the â€œwalang alamâ€ slogan against cory aquino? there was, and there will always be, mutual denigration."

Reply:

Thanks for your opinion. After all the exchanges of views you admitted that; "naturally, it was politics as usual." I agree! Hehehe...

It's not only the smears and mudslinging but the hate against Marcos and I will also include Erap lingers on... because this is drawn in our political culture of putting down a political adversary. The denigration as you say is very clear and the case of Cory Aquino dubbed as "walang alam" is like the issue attributed to Erap as only an actor. Cory Aquino is no push over when it comes to her education but the "walang alam" is a derision of her in-experience in politics.

WN

you're most welcome. we are, at least, agreed on the mudslinging of politics, that's why you have no need to complain about the opposition denigrating marcos, right?

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Way Nada · « **Reply #125 on:** May 06, 2011, 11:28:04 AM »

Quote:

if it wasn't, why didn't he simply go down and not run again after two terms because in the first place that was all that the 1935 constitution allowed him? by 1972, he was already on his second and last term as president. political analysts were already wagging that he was bound to stay longer. everything in him, words and deeds, led those keen enough to understand human nature that it wasn't in him to give up power that easily.

Reply:

The presidential election was to be held in the month of November 1972. Marcos declared Martial Law on September 21, 1972. The election scheduled in November was cancelled and Marcos by virtue of Martial Law had a hold over power. Other political opinion at that time said that Marcos was right in his declaration of Martial Law. If Marcos stood down the communists will have taken over power.

* * *

Quote:

1971 constitutional convention

When news broke out that Marcos planned to amend the constitution, allowing him to run for a third term in the presidential elections of 1973, student-led protests erupted in the streets, in what has since become known as the First Quarter Storm of 1970. Later, student movements also led the Diliman Commune of February 1971. Despite the violent protests, the Constitutional Convention still convened in June 1971.

Reply:

Ninoy Aquino was part of this plan to overthrow Marcos. He was caught in a tape recorded conversation with the communists. The university students of Manila were used as tool to create chaos. In January of 1973 the new constitution was ratified by the people and came into effect.

* * *

Quote:

1986 snap elections

The snap elections were finally held on 7 February 1986, with Cory Aquino and Salvador â€œDoyâ€ Laurel running against Marcos and Aurelio Tolentino for the presidency and the vice-presidency. The heavily-anticipated elections were marred by vote-buying, oppression, and fraudulent results; with Commission on Elections (COMELEC) results were in favor of Marcos while the National Movement for Free Elections (NAMFREL) results were in favor of Aquino. In protest, thirty computer operators walk out of the COMELEC tabulation center during the tabulation two days after the election.

Reply:

The allegation of oppression and fraudulent results in the snap election are not true. There was no oppression because Marcos was already established "name" among the people in the countryside. Marcos won because he had the political machinery and Cory Aquino with her saliva only. If I'm not telling you the truth then ask any politician worth his salt if a candidate without a political machinery can win in a national election.

Those who committed fraud in that election was Joe Concepcion and his Namfrel by manipulating the results through trending... which is why Comelec had a different result than Namfrel. The walked out of the computer operators was staged to show to the world media that the election was a farce. The real reason of all this election drama was the opposition knew they cannot defeat Marcos in a national election.

* * *

Quote:

One of the most brutal incidents that happened in connection with the snap elections was the killing of lawyer Evelio Javier, opposition ex-governor of Antique, on 11 February 1986. Javier was chased and shot to death in broad daylight at the provincial capitol. The assassination was considered as one of the tipping points that led to the revolution. At his funeral mass, the official statement of the Catholic Bishops' Conference of the Philippines was read, condemning the elections. (wikipedia)

Reply:

I agree. They made Evelio Javier a rallying point to their cause to oust Marcos by any means. It is also the same thing today in the massacre of people in Mindanao by the Ampatuan.

* * *

Quote:

if these are still media inventions for you and you are therefore inclined not to believe, how does catholic church invention suit you?

Reply:

I am a catholic but I am not dogmatic. I am a traditionalist. The same with my treatment of the news in the media; I don't believe always as if they are gospel truth.

* * *

WN

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Lorenzo · « **Reply #126 on:** May 06, 2011, 11:43:14 AM »

my dear manoy lorenz, no one's saying here that his presidency was all negative. besides, we're tackling here his burial as a hero, not his presidency or the republic acts he "wrote" or the performance of the other presidents after him.

noted, isles. thank you. in my personal opinion, i recognize that Marcos had some flaws , made especially evident during his later years but he did contribute some good things to the country. and in some ways i do admire him (for his good traits, of course, not the bad).

my view lang.

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Lorenzo · « **Reply #127 on:** May 06, 2011, 11:44:13 AM »

Quote:

if it wasn't, why didn't he simply go down and not run again after two terms because in the first place that was all that the 1935 constitution allowed him? by 1972, he was already on his second and last term as president. political analysts were already wagging that he was bound to stay longer. everything in him, words and deeds, led those keen enough to understand human nature that it wasn't in him to give up power that easily.

Reply:

The presidential election was to be held in the month of November 1972. Marcos declared Martial Law on September 21, 1972. The election scheduled in November was cancelled and Marcos by virtue of Martial Law had a hold over power. Other political opinion at that time said that Marcos was right in his declaration of Martial Law. If Marcos stood down the communists will have taken over power.

* * *

Quote:

1971 constitutional convention

When news broke out that Marcos planned to amend the constitution, allowing him to run for a third term in the presidential elections of 1973, student-led protests erupted in the streets, in what has since become known as the First Quarter Storm of 1970. Later, student movements also led the Diliman Commune of February 1971. Despite the violent protests, the Constitutional Convention still convened in June 1971.

Reply:

Ninoy Aquino was part of this plan to overthrow Marcos. He was caught in a tape recorded conversation with the communists. The university students of Manila were used as tool to create chaos. In January of 1973 the new constitution was ratified by the people and came into effect.

* * *

Quote:

1986 snap elections

The snap elections were finally held on 7 February 1986, with Cory Aquino and Salvador â€œDoyâ€ Laurel running against Marcos and Aurelio Tolentino for the presidency and the vice-presidency. The heavily-anticipated elections were marred by vote-buying, oppression, and fraudulent results; with Commission on Elections (COMELEC) results were in favor of Marcos while the National Movement for Free Elections (NAMFREL) results were in favor of Aquino. In protest, thirty computer operators walk out of the COMELEC tabulation center during the tabulation two days after the election.

Reply:

The allegation of oppression and fraudulent results in the snap election are not true. There was no oppression because Marcos was already established "name" among the people in the countryside. Marcos won because he had the political machinery and Cory Aquino with her saliva only. If I'm not telling you the truth then ask any politician worth his salt if a candidate without a political machinery can win in a national election.

Those who committed fraud in that election was Joe Concepcion and his Namfrel by manipulating the results through trending... which is why Comelec had a different result than Namfrel. The walked out of the computer operators was staged to show to the world media that the election was a farce. The real reason of all this election drama was the opposition knew they cannot defeat Marcos in a national election.

* * *

Quote:

One of the most brutal incidents that happened in connection with the snap elections was the killing of lawyer Evelio Javier, opposition ex-governor of Antique, on 11 February 1986. Javier was chased and shot to death in broad daylight at the provincial capitol. The assassination was considered as one of the tipping points that led to the revolution. At his funeral mass, the official statement of the Catholic Bishops' Conference of the Philippines was read, condemning the elections. (wikipedia)

Reply:

I agree. They made Evelio Javier a rallying point to their cause to oust Marcos by any means. It is also the same thing today in the massacre of people in Mindanao by the Ampatuan.

* * *

Quote:

if these are still media inventions for you and you are therefore inclined not to believe, how does catholic church invention suit you?

Reply:

I am a catholic but I am not dogmatic. I am a traditionalist. The same with my treatment of the news in the media; I don't believe always as if they are gospel truth.

* * *

WN

Way Nada, you are correct in maintaining your reservation in regards to the media.

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Way Nada · « **Reply #128 on:** May 06, 2011, 11:49:05 AM »

donâ€™t tell me it was wrong for the philippine free press magazine (which was established in 1907) to honor marcos as man of the year in 1965.

meanwhile, here's a little backgrounder that may be worth our while:

â€œSince 1946, our father has exposed the corruption of Philippine politics through every administration. Having defied the moves of Marcos to impose martial law, he was, upon the declaration of martial law in 1972, arrested and detained. The Philippines Free Press was shut down, and its assets were sold to a Marcos crony. In 1985, however, our father resumed the publication of the Philippines Free Press to support the candidacy of Corazon Cojuangco Aquino - even in the teeth of military censorship.â€ (Enrique L. Locsin on Teodoro M. Locsin Sr.)

http://www.glphils.org/kinship/

Reply:

Thanks... you said it! After Marcos re-election the PFP became a Marcos critic. When his father was arrested T. L. Locsin Sr. became an oppositionist. Joaquin Roces, Max Soliven, Serge Osmena and Gene Lopez... they were arrested. They are only few. In an emergency government it is always the intellectual person or persons that are arrested.

***
WN

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islander · « **Reply #129 on:** May 06, 2011, 12:07:11 PM »

"Naturally politics is playing as usual."

so did marcos played politics as usual. in fact, he played way, way beforeâ€¦

islander wrote:

"meantime, when something is questioned, there must be some weakness in that thing."

Reply:

Not necessarily. The things that is questioned by the media are the Marcos medals... and some people just swallow it hook, line and sinker. This not strange because there are lots of gullible people around. To show strenght of their claims they should show proof. According to the Philippine government through Gen. Restituto Aguilar; "Those who contest the authenticity of his [Marcos] medals should substantiate their allegations. It shall undergo investigations and should follow a processâ€. Until now nobody shows up to contest the Marcos medals.

it follows, actually. why cast aspersion on something that's unimpeachable? let's note in the meantime that there are equally gullible people around who swallow hook, line, sinker and whale marcosâ€™s purported 27 medals of heroism.

islander wrote:

"your belief that marcos deserved all his 27 war medals must have some basis, such as your readings and your choice of what to believe in your readings. thatâ€™s your right."

Reply:

Of course! It's not only a belief but it's a fact of history that Marcos was awarded these medals during WW-II.

i like your selective understanding of history.

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Way Nada · « **Reply #130 on:** May 06, 2011, 12:10:53 PM »

jibin arula is real, alive and well. if indeed as you claim ninoy didnâ€™t find him when he went to sulu, why, of course, if i were arula, i would not trust any government man to see me. iâ€™d be too paranoid by then to even believe that the government man in the person of ninoy may even be followed by some military sniper out to finish me off.

Jibin Arula, lone survivor of the Jabidah Massacre
He's the one in the middle of the photo, in the light blue shirt.

at the time of the jabidah massacre in 1968, jibin arula was 27 years old.

really, way nada, sir, it only takes a few minutes and some patience to browse the internet to verify these things. i personally would not rely on my own figment of imagination, no matter how colorful it may be, just to make myself feel right about my personal biases.

Reply:

If Arula is a real person he should have been subpoenaed to appear in congress and testify about the massacre. The case about the Jabidah massacre reached the Supreme Court but there was no Arula. In your case you get your information always from the media. The last bulwark of our democracy is always in a court of law and I rely more in the result of an investigation in a court of law. The Jabidah Massacre maybe was the invention of Ninoy Aquino and the media. Believing his own lies he went to Sulo to look for Arula.

WN

* * *

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Way Nada · « **Reply #131 on:** May 06, 2011, 12:16:18 PM »

the philippine government apologized in embarrassment, knowing that the secret plan to invade sabah (it wasn't to sabotage) was secret no more because of ninoy, will not have any foreign help, even from the u.s., which despite bilateral military agreements is wont to side with the british. we didnâ€™t stand a chance. to supposedly continue keeping the operation secret (face-saving at the expense of lives), the trainees were allegedly massacred. the lone survivor, the one who came out alive to tell the tale, is real and alive and well, as you can see.

Jabidah Massacre survivor to join anniversary rites

By Jocelyn Uy
Philippine Daily Inquirer
First Posted 22:49:00 03/17/2008

MANILA, Philippines -- An emblem that commemorates the scores of Moro youths killed in the Jabidah massacre 40 years ago will be unveiled on Tuesday at the Kindley Airfield on Corregidor Island, the scene of the atrocity, according to a Muslim group.

The gruesome Jabidah Massacre was believed to have sparked the Muslim rebellion. According to the MindaNews web site, it is the reckoning date of the founding of the Moro National Liberation Front (MNLF) although its actual creation was on a much later date.

The event refers to the killings of about 60 Muslim youths trained to invade Sabah by henchmen of the late dictator President Ferdinand Marcos on March 18, 1968.

Only one survived to tell the tale, Jibin Arula, who is expected to lead anniversary rites by the Mindanao Peoplesâ€™ Caucus on Corregidor Island on Tuesday.

If Arula would be able to join the group, it would be his first time to set foot on Corregidor since the massacre.

More at http://opinion.inquirer.net/

Reply:

If there was a massacre please provide a court case. Did Arula testify in congress or in the court of law?

WN

***

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Way Nada · « **Reply #132 on:** May 06, 2011, 12:27:59 PM »

i think iâ€™m not wrong; iâ€™m just looking at things without myopia. how can people of another ideology who are not in power ever have the power to suppress a whole countryâ€™s freedom? did the communists do away with the writ of habeas corpus? did they suppress the press? let us grant that the communists may have terrified the people, especially those in the countryside, but suppress our freedom? they were too far away from the reins of power to be able to do that. have you heard of the word â€˜logicâ€™?

Reply:

Yes you are wrong. If you are not myopic then maybe you overlooked it. The communists in cahoots with Ninoy Aquino, the students and some of the clergy created the situation to suppress our freedom. Marcos made the preemptive action against the communists. The word "contrive" means to create a situation. Logic???

WN

***

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islander · « **Reply #133 on:** May 06, 2011, 12:36:17 PM »

islander wrote:

"your belief that marcos deserved all his 27 war medals must have some basis, such as your readings and your choice of what to believe in your readings. thatâ€™s your right."

Reply:

Of course! It's not only a belief but it's a fact of history that Marcos was awarded these medals during WW-II.

islander wrote:

"this is mine: what are the bases for the doubts cast over marcosâ€™s medals? in general, some of the medals were earned or bestowed on him in accordance with his own reports and claims. thus, the medals may be authentic but the reasons for their awarding could be fake. (please note the qualifications of â€œmay beâ€ and â€œcould beâ€.)"

Reply:

Actually the doubts come from baseless accusation. Devoid of any iota of evidence. The bases for the doubters comes from; "naturally, it was politics as usual." This is straight from the horse's mouth.

WN

horse aside, and talking of an iota (which the dictionary says is "a very small quantity or degree; a jot; a particle"), i hereby offer the following iotas:

Posing as the most decorated Filipino soldier of World War II, Ferdinand Marcos foisted 33 medals and awards. Bonifacio Gillego, in opposing Marcosâ€™s dictatorship, exposed in 1982:

â€¢ Eleven of the 33 were given in 1963, nearly 20 years after the War, when Marcos was Senate President girding to run for President. Ten of the 11 were given on the same day, December 20. Three of the ten unusually were given under only one General Order.

â€¢ One award was given on Marcosâ€™s 55th birthday, September 17, 1972, when he was President, four days before he imposed martial law.

â€¢ Eight of the 33 â€œAmerican and Philippine medals,â€ as listed by Marcosâ€™s Office of Media Affairs, were actually campaign ribbons given to all participants in the defense of Bataan and in the resistance.

â€¢ Awards are duplicated for the same action on the same day and place.

â€¢ One is a special award from the Veterans Federation of the Philippines.

From Marcos medals: Only 2 of 33 given in battle, By Jarius Bondoc,
The Philippine Star, Thursday, April 28th, 2011 / 08:40 PM

http://www.philstar.com/

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Way Nada · « **Reply #134 on:** May 06, 2011, 12:51:22 PM »

and just because there was an arms shipment for the communists the whole countryâ€™s freedom needed to be suppressed? where was our then commander-in-chiefâ€™s military? note that itâ€™s the media that divulged this (according to you), and suddenly, you believe the media despite your repeated claims that theyâ€™re not worth believing?

Yes of course! That was the provision in the constitution that; "the president can declare Martial Law if in his own judgement the Philippines is in iminent danger of rebellion". The shipment of arms from China for the communists was a sign that there was a rebellion. It was not only in Luzon but in Mindanao the MNLF of Nur Misuari openly revolted against the government. This was also one of the factors for the closure of the media that; in time of crisis the media should be pro government.

WN

***

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islander · « **Reply #135 on:** May 06, 2011, 01:04:55 PM »

islander wrote:

the bogeyman of communism was his most convenient reason then, from the plaza miranda bombing (as yet unsolved) to the supposed ambush of enrile (solved, with enrile admitting that it was plain drama). even the assassination of benign aquino jr was at once blamed on the communists.

Reply:

Bogeyman? hehehe... I think this is the usual terminology of the Marcos critics to discredit Martial Law.

hehe, as the usual terminology of marcos worshippers is â€˜heroâ€™.

And one thing I can say about Enrile is that; when his life was already in danger during his defiance against Marcos and to attract sympathy from the people he invented a story that his "ambush" was staged by Marcos. His story is unbelievable because it was done at the time when he rebelled against his boss Marcos. If it is for the sake of the people... he should have divulged it long time ago.

so? just because he didnâ€™t divulge it at once his statement is rendered false? a late confession does not make a confession false. oh, it wasnâ€™t marcos who staged the ambush. like any lackey obeying his boss, enrile himself arranged it upon marcosâ€™s orders.

islander wrote:

"was the communistsâ€™ npa ever a threat to national security in the real sense of the word? on hindsight, but for the usual government yarn then, the more threatening at the time was our own military that had more political power and better weapons than the ragtag npa, which didnâ€™t have the support of the greater part of the population. but the communists provided the marcos government with the best excuse to wield power sans check and balance."

Reply:

Yes. The CPP-NPA currently poses the greatest armed threat to the Philippine government and has the widest grass-roots support among the various Philippine leftist insurgent groups. The conflict between the CPP-NPA and the Philippine government has taken thousands of lives since the NPAâ€™s inception. The peace talks between the NDF and the government is going nowhere.

WN

wow! this party and ideology, marcosâ€™s bogeymen, had been sidelined since the fall of the berlin wall, and you still believe theyâ€™re a threat? come on, do you really believe until now, more than two decades later, the propaganda of the marcos years, with the controlled media as the conveyors? what decade are you living in?

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bol-anon quo nyur! · « **Reply #136 on:** May 06, 2011, 01:16:03 PM »

I was in DAVAO CITY during the SNAP ELECTION, & what i saw & experienced during those times is the TOTAL OPPOSITE sa gi ingon ni WAY NADA....what a JOKE!

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islander · « **Reply #137 on:** May 06, 2011, 01:21:06 PM »

islander wrote:

"heroes are deemed worthy of the name, so why should the article's writer still ask if he were worthy of the name when he can settle for simply asking whether he was a hero or not?"

Reply:

You are right! "Heroes are deemed worthy of the name." Other people think he is not worth the name of a hero. But honorable men like Gen. Jonathan Wainwright and Gen. Douglas MacArthur think otherwise. They believed Marcos is a hero by honoring him [Marcos] with war medals. These war medals were awarded to Marcos at the time when the war in the Philippines was raging in 1942. The US and Philippine governments never reported that those medals awarded to Marcos were fake medals.

I for one agree with the 2 generals.

WN

i, too, believe in the two generals. but remember marcos's awards didn't all come from these two generals. he purportedly displayed 27 (some say it's 33). that's why it's worth my time to ponder on this:

OTHER OBSERVATIONS:

â€¢ Marcos earned the Medal of Valor â€œfor extraordinary gallantry and intrepidity at the risk of life above and beyond the call of duty in a suicidal action against overwhelming enemy forces at the junction of Salian River and Abo-Abo River, Bataan, on or about 22 January 1942.â€ This highest Philippine military award came only in October 1958, when he was senior congressman, 16 years after.

â€¢ Only two of the medals were given during the War. The Gold Cross came on July 22, 1945, â€œfor gallantry in action at Kiangan, Mt. Province, in April 1945.â€ Supposedly â€œColonel Marcos, of the 14th Infantry, United States Armed Forces in the Philippines-North Luzon (USAFIP-NL), with one enlisted man volunteered to reconnoiter area adjacent to the regimental command post at Panupdupan.â€ Marcos spotted well-camouflaged enemy trucks about a mile away and sent the enlisted man back to RCP to report. By himself Marcos ambushed the Japanese, forcing them to flee after 30 minutes of intense fighting.

â€¢ The Distinguished Service Star came on April 24, 1945. The citation read: â€œFor outstanding achievement as a guerrilla leader. After escaping from the Fort Santiago Kempei Tai, Marcos supported ex-Mayor Vicente Umali, organizer and commanding general of the PQOGâ€¦ Despite his illness, he stayed at the headquarters in Banahaw to guide both the staff and combat echelons. He refused the rank of â€˜generalâ€™ offered him by General Umali and organized his own guerrilla group known as the Maharlika.â€

Interviewed by Gillego in 1982, Marcosâ€™s two superiors in the 14th Infantry debunked both citations. Col. Romulo A. Manriquez, regimental commander, swore that Marcos was never assigned to patrol or combat, only as S-5 or civil affairs. Not a colonel but a captain, Marcos joined the 14th Infantry from December 4, 1944 to April 28, 1945. No Maharlika guerrilla group was formed in Kiangan on April 24, 1945.

Capt. Vicente L. Rivera, 14th Infantry adjutant, added that he had never recommended Marcos for any decoration. The sighting of Japanese trucks a mile from RCP was geographically impossible because the nearest road was too far, half a dayâ€™s hike away.

From GOTCHA, Jarius Bondoc, The Philippine Star
Thursday, April 28th, 2011 / 08:40 PM

http://www.philstar.com/

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islander · « **Reply #138 on:** May 06, 2011, 01:43:35 PM »

I was in DAVAO CITY during the SNAP ELECTION, & what i saw & experienced during those times is the TOTAL OPPOSITE sa gi ingon ni WAY NADA....what a JOKE!

maayo ka kay morag kalma-kalma ang davao ikomparar sa cebu atong panahona. i was in the midst of the election as a young government worker. purya, nasuko nako akong officemates kay wa ko mo-attend sa campaign ni marcos ug imelda sa cebu coliseum (pakaw-on mi ug magdala ug pompoms; nagpasumangil kog hilanat. i felt then that i was too old to be a pompom-carrying cheerleader; professional na god kintahay ko.

)

worse, the whole office became a "secret tabulation center", with paid mediamen who came and went and were ready to report marcos with leading results. (one of them was a boholano nga kanunay nako ikasingkahay kay luod kaayo ang iyang pagka-trying hard. he became the office's laughingstock kay we knew he was there for the money. supplier ra baya to siya ug mga girls sa mga visiting dignitaries. naahat ug ka mediaman ang tonto.)

the trick of the "secret tabulation center": do not report the results of the opposition; set the mind of the people for marcos's victory. my boss knew i would refuse; wa na ko pasudla sa office. bata pa lagi ta, kamao pa mosukol, hehe. pasumangil na lang akong boss ug assign nako sa voting centers. nagnganga intawon ko sa may southern islands hospital gym, one of the voting centers. hinoon, sige lang kog kaon ug potato chips didto.

when edsa happened, gitaktak ko sa akong trabaho.

note: martial law had my brother detained at the stockade for nine months. my sister was listed as "questionable". a close relative was a concon delegate who got a mercedes benz from marcos. need i say more?

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Way Nada · « **Reply #139 on:** May 06, 2011, 01:48:33 PM »

you're most welcome. we are, at least, agreed on the mudslinging of politics, that's why you have no need to complain about the opposition denigrating marcos, right?

So if you are agreeable... therefore the issue against the Marcos medals is politically motivated. It is true that denigrating and mudslinging are often used by vested interest group to take issue to further a political end. By asserting an idea under the protection of freedom of the press can you smear, defame or sully the reputation of a person? This is often predicated on lies and falsehood and I think this is wrong especially if the person concerned is a dead man.

Marcos since he first ran for election in 1948 he capitalized on his medals to attract voters to vote for him. He campaigned in the 1965 presidential election comparing him a war hero to the Liberal Party candidate Sergio Osmena Jr. who was selling scrap iron to the Japanese army during the war.

There was never an issue that his medals are fake until in 1982 a certain Bonifacio Gillego came out with his allegation that the Marcos medals are not genuine who relies his information from people supposedly Marcos comrades in arms during WW-II. Therefore it's a sort of info coming from gossip and political innuendoes... which is why they are really false. And more... not a single information from him that says; he sourced it from the archives of the US and Philippine military.

WN
***

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Way Nada · « **Reply #140 on:** May 06, 2011, 02:15:35 PM »

so did marcos played politics as usual. in fact, he played way, way beforeâ€¦

Reply:

"Naturally politics is playing as usual." That is your quote not mine. But Marcos is not playing politics... he is a dead man. His enemies are playing politics with a dead body. A sort of desecration of the dead.
***

it follows, actually. why cast aspersion on something that's unimpeachable? let's note in the meantime that there are equally gullible people around who swallow hook, line, sinker and whale marcosâ€™s purported 27 medals of heroism.

Reply:

If you have unimpeachable evidence then you must go to the proper venue and complain that Marcos medals are fake. Anyway Gen. Restituto Aguilar I believe will entertain your evidence thus saying; "Those who contest the authenticity of his [Marcos] medals should substantiate their allegations. It shall undergo investigations and should follow a processâ€. So that once and for all the Marcos medals' issue will come to a stop.

WN

***

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islander · « **Reply #141 on:** May 06, 2011, 02:26:41 PM »

So if you are agreeable... therefore the issue against the Marcos medals is politically motivated. It is true that denigrating and mudslinging are often used by vested interest group to take issue to further a political end. By asserting an idea under the protection of freedom of the press can you smear, defame or sully the reputation of a person? This is often predicated on lies and falsehood and I think this is wrong especially if the person concerned is a dead man.

Marcos since he first ran for election in 1948 he capitalized on his medals to attract voters to vote for him. He campaigned in the 1965 presidential election comparing him a war hero to the Liberal Party candidate Sergio Osmena Jr. who was selling scrap iron to the Japanese army during the war.

There was never an issue that his medals are fake until in 1982 a certain Bonifacio Gillego came out with his allegation that the Marcos medals are not genuine who relies his information from people supposedly Marcos comrades in arms during WW-II. Therefore it's a sort of info coming from gossip and political innuendoes... which is why they are really false. And more... not a single information from him that says; he sourced it from the archives of the US and Philippine military.

WN
***

just because we are agreed on political motivations does not mean that we are agreed about the medals. besides, his claims to these medals can also be branded as politically motivated, okay? he capitalized on these to election victory, as you imply.

gillego sourced his information from marcos's superiors at the 14th infantry (please see reply #136). his report was lent credence by the findings of historian alfred w. mccoy. here i post again what i've previously posted:

Marcosâ€™s war hero image collapsed when The New York Times ran an exclusive on January 23, 1986. He was then wrapping up the election campaign against Cory, widow of Ninoy Aquino. As usual he regaled the crowds with accounts of his hot exploits. The Times doused cold water on his stories, quoting the US Army description of them as mostly â€œabsurdâ€ and â€œfraudulentâ€. Main source was Alfred W. McCoy, a history professor who was researching records just turned over to the National Archives in Washington. McCoy unearthed two requests by Marcos in 1945 and 1948 for official recognition of Mga Maharlika. Both were rejected as Army investigators found the claims to be exaggerated. Ray Hunt Jr., an ex-Army captain who directed guerrilla activities in 1942-44 in Pangasinan, North Luzon, was quoted in the Times article as saying the Maharlika was fictitious. He said if any unit had operated near his base then, he would have known about it. The investigators said Marcos even associated with men engaged in â€œnefarious activity,â€ like supplying contraband to the Japanese.

The opposition press picked up the Times story. It confirmed what retired Philippine Army Col. Bonifacio Gillego had stated only months before in The Fake Medals of Marcos. The underground book branded the 27 decorations as outright phonies or awarded through bogus accounts. Also exposed then was Marcosâ€™s rejected application for war reparation of $595,000. Supposedly it was for the US Armyâ€™s commandeering of 2,000 heads of cattle from his (inexistent) family ranch in Mindanao.

Marcos ordered political lieutenants to refute the reports. They came up with a more incredible claim that the medals were for acts in 1941 and 1945, at warâ€™s beginning and end. This only lent more credence to Gillegoâ€™s statement that, for Marcos to have fought the 27 battles, he would have been at different places at the same time.

From GOTCHA By Jarius Bondoc (The Philippine Star) Updated April 08, 2011 12:00 AM

http://www.philstar.com

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Way Nada · « **Reply #142 on:** May 06, 2011, 02:42:24 PM »

horse aside, and talking of an iota (which the dictionary says is "a very small quantity or degree; a jot; a particle"), i hereby offer the following iotas:

Reply:

Let me see your small evidence.

Posing as the most decorated Filipino soldier of World War II, Ferdinand Marcos foisted 33 medals and awards. Bonifacio Gillego, in opposing Marcosâ€™s dictatorship, exposed in 1982:

Reply:

So... who is Bonifacio Gillego? Is he a government agent authorize to authenticate the medals of Marcos?
***

â€¢ Eleven of the 33 were given in 1963, nearly 20 years after the War, when Marcos was Senate President girding to run for President. Ten of the 11 were given on the same day, December 20. Three of the ten unusually were given under only one General Order.

â€¢ One award was given on Marcosâ€™s 55th birthday, September 17, 1972, when he was President, four days before he imposed martial law.

â€¢ Eight of the 33 â€œAmerican and Philippine medals,â€ as listed by Marcosâ€™s Office of Media Affairs, were actually campaign ribbons given to all participants in the defense of Bataan and in the resistance.

â€¢ Awards are duplicated for the same action on the same day and place.

â€¢ One is a special award from the Veterans Federation of the Philippines.

Reply:

Where is the declaration of Jarius Bondoc that Marcos medals are fake? Nada!

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islander · « **Reply #143 on:** May 06, 2011, 02:42:52 PM »

Reply:

"Naturally politics is playing as usual." That is your quote not mine. But Marcos is not playing politics... he is a dead man. His enemies are playing politics with a dead body. A sort of desecration of the dead.
***
Reply:

If you have unimpeachable evidence then you must go to the proper venue and complain that Marcos medals are fake. Anyway Gen. Restituto Aguilar I believe will entertain your evidence thus saying; "Those who contest the authenticity of his [Marcos] medals should substantiate their allegations. It shall undergo investigations and should follow a processâ€. So that once and for all the Marcos medals' issue will come to a stop.

WN

***

way nada, if your logic turns this way, then i am just wasting my time on this discussion. but let me try to follow your logic anyway, no matter how different it is from mine and no matter how i insult myself in the process.

if you must tell me to go to the proper venue to complain that marcos's medals are fake, then i must also tell you to go and bury marcos yourself and give him the proper hero's burial. better still, jump into the grave and have yourself be buried with him.

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Way Nada · « **Reply #144 on:** May 06, 2011, 02:54:22 PM »

so? just because he didnâ€™t divulge it at once his statement is rendered false? a late confession does not make a confession false. oh, it wasnâ€™t marcos who staged the ambush. like any lackey obeying his boss, enrile himself arranged it upon marcosâ€™s orders.

Reply:

His statement is doubtful because it is a long drawn second opinion. It can be false! It was spoken at a time when his life was already in danger.

wow! this party and ideology, marcosâ€™s bogeymen, had been sidelined since the fall of the berlin wall, and you still believe theyâ€™re a threat? come on, do you really believe until now, more than two decades later, the propaganda of the marcos years, with the controlled media as the conveyors? what decade are you living in?

Reply:

Yes they are a threat. You know why? Because they still retain an armed group in the hills. And unknown to some they are already in government posing as progressives.

WN
***

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hubag bohol · « **Reply #145 on:** May 06, 2011, 02:54:33 PM »

That subject corpse is the remains of one of the most corrupt leaders in the history of mankind is a well-settled fact. Enough said.

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Way Nada · « **Reply #146 on:** May 06, 2011, 04:28:34 PM »

just because we are agreed on political motivations does not mean that we are agreed about the medals. besides, his claims to these medals can also be branded as politically motivated, okay? he capitalized on these to election victory, as you imply.

Reply:

The bone of contention here is; "if the Marcos medals are fake or not". If the issue is politically motivated as agreed by you then it is clear as the noon day sun that the Marcos medals are truly genuine. In his case he did not claim to the medals but they were awarded to him. ****

gillego sourced his information from marcos's superiors at the 14th infantry (please see reply #136). his report was lent credence by the findings of historian alfred w. mccoy. here i post again what i've previously posted:

Reply:

"Sourced his information from marcos's superiors?" You see... they are not the right people to be believed. Gillego's information must come first hand from the archivists of the US and the Philippine military with a certification saying that; they have no information on record awarding war medals to Marcos. Thus debunking the 27 medals of Marcos as fake. And then... tapos na ang boksing if you have this certification. ***

Marcosâ€™s war hero image collapsed when The New York Times ran an exclusive on January 23, 1986. He was then wrapping up the election

campaign against Cory, widow of Ninoy Aquino. As usual he regaled the crowds with accounts of his hot exploits. The Times doused cold water on his stories, quoting the US Army description of them as mostly â€œabsurdâ€ and â€œfraudulentâ€. Main source was Alfred W. McCoy, a history professor who was researching records just turned over to the National Archives in Washington. McCoy unearthed two requests by Marcos in 1945 and 1948 for official recognition of Mga Maharlika. Both were rejected as Army investigators found the claims to be exaggerated. Ray Hunt Jr., an ex-Army captain who directed guerrilla activities in 1942-44 in Pangasinan, North Luzon, was quoted in the Times article as saying the Maharlika was fictitious. He said if any unit had operated near his base then, he would have known about it. The investigators said Marcos even [/quo associated with men engaged in â€œnefarious activity,â€ like supplying contraband to the Japanese.

Reply:

If Alfred W. McCoy "unearthed two requests by Marcos in 1945 and 1948 for official recognition of Mga Maharlika" why he not able to look into Marcos war medals when he had accessed the National Archives in Washington? Why did the National Archives curator allowed McCoy access to Marcos war records and denied Bonifacio Gillego when the later a Filipino has more interest in Marcos war records than McCoy?

Who is Alfred W. McCoy?

Alfred W. McCoy as the report said is a professor of history. His biodata states that he authored many books and researcher of history in Southeast Asia and elsewhere in the world. His biodata says more that he is a researcher on Philipine history and government but I failed to find if he wrote about the war records of Marcos... except a news opinion printed in NYT. ***

Marcos ordered political lieutenants to refute the reports. They came up with a more incredible claim that the medals were for acts in 1941 and 1945, at warâ€™s beginning and end. This only lent more credence to Gillegoâ€™s statement that, for Marcos to have fought the 27 battles, he would have been at different places at the same time.

Reply:

Some medals were awarded during the war and some after the war. What is wrong with that?

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Way Nada · « **Reply #147 on:** May 06, 2011, 04:41:00 PM »

way nada, if your logic turns this way, then i am just wasting my time on this discussion. but let me try to follow your logic anyway, no matter how different it is from mine and no matter how i insult myself in the process.

if you must tell me to go to the proper venue to complain that marcos's medals are fake, then i must also tell you to go and bury marcos yourself and give him the proper hero's burial. better still, jump into the grave and have yourself be buried with him.

I'm not insisting on my logic. It's you who is persistent. I am siding with Enrile, Maceda, Gen. Douglas MacArthur, Gen, Jonathan Wainwright, the US and the Philippine governments that the Marcos medals are genuine. That is simple logic.***

WN

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Way Nada · « **Reply #148 on:** May 06, 2011, 04:48:03 PM »

I was in DAVAO CITY during the SNAP ELECTION, & what i saw & experienced during those times is the TOTAL OPPOSITE sa gi ingon ni WAY NADA....what a JOKE!

You see... you were in Davao city, it means Cory is popular in cities but when it comes to probinsiya or countryside the people there are for Marcos.

WN

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Way Nada · « **Reply #149 on:** May 06, 2011, 05:05:32 PM »

Tho it may be argued and discussed that Marcos was corrupt etc etc, in the end, the man authored over 90 Republic Acts, all of which are still in effect to this day.

Reply:

There is no government that is free from corruption but media in other countries don't use the issue of corruption to put down their government officials if they have no evidence. If Marcos authored over 90 Republic Acts... there are more. Marcos had crafted more than 7,800 Presidential Decrees and other legal issuances â€“ from the crib to the grave, so to speak. They are still in effect until today except those that pertain to Martial Law. If Marcos is an evil person our new leaders in government should have repealed all the laws of Marcos.

He is a great lawgiver second only to Moses.

WN

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Way Nada · « **Reply #150 on:** May 06, 2011, 05:23:01 PM »

So you expect the dictator to conduct a clean and honest election to find out whether or not the people he is oppressing would want to throw him out? You expect him to honor the voice of the people? Or ar you saying that the people have no recourse at all and therefore will just have to accept their misfortune and stoically wait for the oppressor to die?

Reply:

Let me say this... there's no need for Marcos to cheat in an election. Nobody can defeat him because he had a complete political machinery. You must also distinguish who the people felt being oppressed by Martial Law. There are only a few. They are businessmen who are antagonistic to Marcos laws on business, the media, the academe, [professors and students] and intellectuals like lawyers... but the vast majority of the people loved Marcos because the Marcos system was pro poor.

What some dictators do is cling to legitimacy by insisting on the letter of the law (which oftentimes was made by them)--the spirit of the law and the sentiments and welfare of their people be damned.

Reply:

Marcos did not cling to legitimacy unlike GMA whose presidency is questioned until now. Marcos was a brilliant lawyer and his Martial Law presidency is legal because it is provided in the constitution.

WN

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hubag bohol · « **Reply #151 on:** May 06, 2011, 07:26:22 PM »

"If you can't convince them, confuse them." --Harry S. Truman

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hubag bohol · « **Reply #152 on:** May 06, 2011, 07:27:22 PM »

"When a finger points to the moon, the imbecile looks at the finger." --Chinese Proverb

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chriswise · « **Reply #153 on:** May 06, 2011, 08:20:04 PM »

Unsa man diay siya, Bay Chris?

usa ka dektador,,maayo iapil tong mga heneral niya og lobong,,

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hubag bohol · « **Reply #154 on:** May 06, 2011, 08:27:37 PM »

usa ka dektador,,maayo iapil tong mga heneral niya og lobong,,

Daghan ra ba pud kuno to siyag gipapatay...

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bugsay · « **Reply #155 on:** May 06, 2011, 08:29:35 PM »

Daghan ra ba pud kuno to siyag gipapatay...

nakadungog bitaw pod ko ana.....so unsa man gyu'y atong buhaton ani ron....

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hubag bohol · « **Reply #156 on:** May 06, 2011, 08:38:53 PM »

nakadungog bitaw pod ko ana.....so unsa man gyu'y atong buhaton ani ron....

Hmm, magpatambag kaha ta ni Prof. Islander?

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bugsay · « **Reply #157 on:** May 06, 2011, 08:51:51 PM »

Hmm, magpatambag kaha ta ni Prof. Islander?

di ko mosampit ato kay basin madukol ug luwag ato.....

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chriswise · « **Reply #158 on:** May 06, 2011, 08:53:58 PM »

di ko mosampit ato kay basin madukol ug luwag ato.....

maka ulit kon madukol og luwag bai,,,

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bugsay · « **Reply #159 on:** May 06, 2011, 08:54:41 PM »

maka ulit kon madukol og luwag bai,,,

makahakog?

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hubag bohol · « **Reply #160 on:** May 06, 2011, 08:55:20 PM »

di ko mosampit ato kay basin madukol ug luwag ato.....

Hmm, kon maohon kadto na lang diayng usa pa nimong katagilungsod...

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bugsay · « **Reply #161 on:** May 06, 2011, 08:56:44 PM »

Hmm, kon maohon kadto na lang diayng usa pa nimong katagilungsod...

busy.....

basin nabunalan to'g luwag si Makoy...kay perting daw-a na man ato?...

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chriswise · « **Reply #162 on:** May 06, 2011, 09:02:56 PM »

makahakog?

oo sige daw kaon,,di mabusog,,he,he,,mao na gitawag,,sa tiyan mo gunit sa lobot mosirit,,

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bol-anon quo nyur! · « **Reply #163 on:** May 06, 2011, 09:26:35 PM »

You see... you were in Davao city, it means Cory is popular in cities but when it comes to probinsiya or countryside the people there are for Marcos.

WN

hahaha, probinsya & countryside?

pareha ra ang ilang gibati ni MALCOS adtong panahuna. SUBRA NA, TAMA NA! You know a LOT of things about MALCOS, but some of them is FULL of GAS

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chriswise · « **Reply #164 on:** May 06, 2011, 09:30:06 PM »

popular lagi sa ka dektador,,he,he,he,,nya ilobong diay tipo sa mga bayani?,,he,he,he,,kaayo ra tulion,,he,he,,ngano man pod god nang pamilyaha mamogos man og lobong didto?og ilobong diay na sa ubang menteryo,,paita,,or maghimo nalang sila og kaugalingong menteryo,,,he,he,,kini pong magbabalaod,,murag di jod angay nang unahon og tuki oi,,unahon unta tong maka ayo sa mga tawo sa atong nasod,,

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hubag bohol · « **Reply #165 on:** May 06, 2011, 09:41:00 PM »

maka ulit kon madukol og luwag bai,,,

Hmm, siging hungit bisag init, siging tilaw bisag hilaw?

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hubag bohol · « **Reply #166 on:** May 06, 2011, 09:42:32 PM »

makahakog?

Minarcos diay? Binuangon tawhana...

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hubag bohol · « **Reply #167 on:** May 06, 2011, 09:43:46 PM »

busy.....

basin nabunalan to'g luwag si Makoy...kay perting daw-a na man ato?...

Dawo pas tanang nangatepok...

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hubag bohol · « **Reply #168 on:** May 06, 2011, 09:45:32 PM »

oo sige daw kaon,,di mabusog,,he,he,,mao na gitawag,,sa tiyan mo gunit sa lobot mosirit,,

Hmm, way katagbawan bay? Hangtod moburot na lang ang nawong?

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hubag bohol · « **Reply #169 on:** May 06, 2011, 09:47:19 PM »

hahaha, probinsya & countryside?

pareha ra ang ilang gibati ni MALCOS adtong panahuna. SUBRA NA, TAMA NA! You know a LOT of things about MALCOS, but some of them is FULL of GAS

Nag-otot-otot diay bay. Nasobrahan tingali sa pagarpar...

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hubag bohol · « **Reply #170 on:** May 06, 2011, 09:51:26 PM »

popular lagi sa ka dektador,,he,he,he,,nya ilobong diay tipo sa mga bayani?,,he,he,he,,kaayo ra tulion,,he,he,,ngano man pod god nang pamilyaha mamogos man og lobong didto?og ilobong diay na sa ubang menteryo,,paita,,or maghimo nalang sila og kaugalingong menteryo,,,he,he,,kini pong magbabalaod,,murag di jod angay nang unahon og tuki oi,,unahon unta tong maka ayo sa mga tawo sa atong nasod,,

Sky burial ang angay bay... ipakaon sa vultures (oops, cannibalism na man ni...)

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chriswise · « **Reply #171 on:** May 06, 2011, 09:51:34 PM »

Hmm, way katagbawan bay? Hangtod moburot na lang ang nawong?

mao jod,,,sige lang hakot katakottakot promo,,he,he,

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bugsay · « **Reply #172 on:** May 06, 2011, 10:14:58 PM »

Minarcos diay? Binuangon tawhana...

mahinumdom bitaw ko sa una...after sa Edsa 1, ang mga bata nga magduwa ug lastiko ba o jolen kon tikasan gani moingon dayon nga "Way Marcosay".....

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bol-anon quo nyur! · « **Reply #173 on:** May 06, 2011, 10:48:06 PM »

Nag-otot-otot diay bay. Nasobrahan tingali sa pagarpar...

Ang term sa bugoy adtong panahuna Bai, dili pagarpar. Kong dih, NAG BUWA -BUWA!

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islander · « **Reply #174 on:** May 07, 2011, 12:19:15 AM »

simbako intawon ug sunod sa hero's burial sa libingan ng mga bayani ang rome na pod ang target, para beatification and canonization, kay buotan ug maayohon ra ba gyod kaayo kuno tong presidenteha, wa gyod mangawat ug manikas sa eleksyon kay siya man gyod intawon ang gusto sa mga pilipino.

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islander · « **Reply #175 on:** May 07, 2011, 01:00:19 AM »

I'm not insisting on my logic. It's you who is persistent. I am siding with Enrile, Maceda, Gen. Douglas MacArthur, Gen, Jonathan Wainwright, the US and the Philippine governments that the Marcos medals are genuine. That is simple logic.***

WN

i'm persistent and you are not?

discussions such as what we have in this forum encourage us to learn more, through shared opinions and proper research and cross-references, with a certain detachment from one's emotional leanings and personal loyalties, so we can make informed conclusions. had you not mentioned that i or anyone who has an opposing view to yours should go to that afp museum consultant with the evidence that the medals are fake (what a non-sequitur!) or had you not insisted that there was no election cheating, i might have held on to some hope that there's some shred of intellect left in you.

there you are insisting on your simple logic. too simple, in fact, that you've just convinced me that your horizon extends only up to the tip of your nose. any discussion with you wasn't worth a minute of my time after all. henceforth, i'd rather discuss heroism with a cadaver, whether it's waiting for a hero's burial or not. honest.

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Vistabel · « **Reply #176 on:** May 07, 2011, 01:04:22 AM »

may karapatan si former Pres. Marcos nga gahinan ug lugar sa libingan ng mga bayani isip usa ka opisyal sa sundalo sa WW-II, ug gani matud pa nya sa dihang ng kampanya sya sa Bohol kaniadto nga sa Bohol sya nadistino sa panahon sa giyera sa WW-II, gilakaw ni nya gikan Calape padulong sa Carmen. Ang tag-iya sa Balay nga iyang gisak-an sa Calape ug tanan nga anak iyang gihatagan ug trabaho sa public works & highway.

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chriswise · « **Reply #177 on:** May 07, 2011, 03:23:31 AM »

may karapatan si former Pres. Marcos nga gahinan ug lugar sa libingan ng mga bayani isip usa ka opisyal sa sundalo sa WW-II, ug gani matud pa nya sa dihang ng kampanya sya sa Bohol kaniadto nga sa Bohol sya nadistino sa panahon sa giyera sa WW-II, gilakaw ni nya gikan Calape padulong sa Carmen. Ang tag-iya sa Balay nga iyang gisak-an sa Calape ug tanan nga anak iyang gihatagan ug trabaho sa public works & highway.

tinood?,,pero nabulingan man god ni gumikan sa martial law..

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bol-anon quo nyur! · « **Reply #178 on:** May 07, 2011, 03:46:50 AM »

Pastilan! kong ilubong si MALCOS didto, mag PEOPLE POWER napod ang mga gipanglubong didto!

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hubag bohol · « **Reply #179 on:** May 07, 2011, 06:12:29 AM »

mao jod,,,sige lang hakot katakottakot promo,,he,he,

Niburot ang nawong nga baga nang daan...

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hubag bohol · « **Reply #180 on:** May 07, 2011, 06:13:50 AM »

mahinumdom bitaw ko sa una...after sa Edsa 1, ang mga bata nga magduwa ug lastiko ba o jolen kon tikasan gani moingon dayon nga "Way Marcosay".....

He he, kahinumdom ka ani kay ikaw maoy giingnan?

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hubag bohol · « **Reply #181 on:** May 07, 2011, 06:15:18 AM »

Ang term sa bugoy adtong panahuna Bai, dili pagarpar. Kong dih, NAG BUWA -BUWA!

Sakto bay, sa Iningles pa, foaming in the mouth like a wild boar!

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hubag bohol · « **Reply #182 on:** May 07, 2011, 06:26:32 AM »

simbako intawon ug sunod sa hero's burial sa libingan ng mga bayani ang rome na pod ang target, para beatification and canonization, kay buotan ug maayohon ra ba gyod kaayo kuno tong presidenteha, wa gyod mangawat ug manikas sa eleksyon kay siya man gyod intawon ang gusto sa mga pilipino.

...ug tungod sa naghingaping gugma sa katawhan ngaha kaniya, gihinginlan siya ug sama sa usa la matuod nga bayani nagkabilatbilat siyag layas inubanan sa makalilisang nga pangurog sa itlog...

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hubag bohol · « **Reply #183 on:** May 07, 2011, 06:28:30 AM »

may karapatan si former Pres. Marcos nga gahinan ug lugar sa libingan ng mga bayani isip usa ka opisyal sa sundalo sa WW-II, ug gani matud pa nya sa dihang ng kampanya sya sa Bohol kaniadto nga sa Bohol sya nadistino sa panahon sa giyera sa WW-II, gilakaw ni nya gikan Calape padulong sa Carmen. Ang tag-iya sa Balay nga iyang gisak-an sa Calape ug tanan nga anak iyang gihatagan ug trabaho sa public works & highway.

Bwahaha! Hero jud tuod, tiaw moy gabaktas...

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hubag bohol · « **Reply #184 on:** May 07, 2011, 06:31:18 AM »

Pastilan! kong ilubong si MALCOS didto, mag PEOPLE POWER napod ang mga gipanglubong didto!

Bwahaha! Paet kay di na jud siya makaipsot anang higayona!

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hubag bohol · « **Reply #185 on:** May 07, 2011, 06:32:59 AM »

tinood?,,pero nabulingan man god ni gumikan sa martial law..

Di lang gani kay nabulingan. Naglunang sa lang-og nga tunaan sa pag-abuso sa gahom...

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bugsay · « **Reply #186 on:** May 07, 2011, 10:09:07 AM »

He he, kahinumdom ka ani kay ikaw maoy giingnan?

usahay......pero mas daghan to'ng wa sila kahibawo..

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hubag bohol · « **Reply #187 on:** May 07, 2011, 02:43:13 PM »

usahay......pero mas daghan to'ng wa sila kahibawo..

He he, maayo diay nimong pagkaliwat sa bayani nga imong idolo...

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Vistabel · « **Reply #188 on:** May 07, 2011, 05:46:13 PM »

ambot kong wala pa siguro si Pres Marcos mangutang basin Lamparahan nga de kerosene pa suga sa kadaghanang Bol-anon.

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chriswise · « **Reply #189 on:** May 07, 2011, 09:53:11 PM »

ambot kong wala pa siguro si Pres Marcos mangutang basin Lamparahan nga de kerosene pa suga sa kadaghanang Bol-anon.

deli siguro pod oi,,magka moderno man ang panahon,,konwala pa si Marcos,,siguro ang mapoli makahuna2x pod siguro,,

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hubag bohol · « **Reply #190 on:** May 07, 2011, 10:53:39 PM »

Kon wa pa si Marcos basin tua ra ta sa atoa ron, di na ta kinahanglan mo-abroad...

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chriswise · « **Reply #191 on:** May 09, 2011, 01:17:11 AM »

Kon wa pa si Marcos basin tua ra ta sa atoa ron, di na ta kinahanglan mo-abroad...

mao kajod,maajo kay nanagbroad na diay mo,,paaria si marcos deri para maka abroad me,,he,he,,

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hubag bohol · « **Reply #192 on:** May 09, 2011, 06:45:21 AM »

mao kajod,maajo kay nanagbroad na diay mo,,paaria si marcos deri para maka abroad me,,he,he,,

He he, si Bay Bugsay maoy akong buot ipasabot nga tuas abroad...

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chriswise · « **Reply #193 on:** May 10, 2011, 01:36:27 AM »

ikaw diay?kon gawas ka sa REPUBLIC OF BOHOL abroad pod ngan nimo,,he,

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Vistabel · « **Reply #194 on:** May 10, 2011, 06:29:27 AM »

[/quote

Kon wa pa si Marcos basin tua ra ta sa atoa ron, di na ta kinahanglan mo-abroad...

Di jud siguro, kay si Sen Ople dating Dept. Labor secretary ug si Pres Marcos silang duha ang naningkamot nga makadaug sa Manpower Bidding sa Middle East sa Arabian American Company (ARAMCO) late of 1960's Ug didto nagsugod ang OFW sa karon.

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Way Nada · « **Reply #195 on:** May 10, 2011, 07:20:10 AM »

hahaha, probinsya & countryside?

pareha ra ang ilang gibati ni MALCOS adtong panahuna. SUBRA NA, TAMA NA! You know a LOT of things about MALCOS, but some of them is FULL of GAS

Dili pareho. Ngano man? Tungod kay ang mga tawo nga napungot kaayo ni Marcos kadto ra mang magasigi ug basa ug opposition newspaper. Hibaw ba ka kung pila ra ka libo ang circulasyon sa newspaper sa panahon ni Marcos? 2,000 mil lang. Kay uban dili na layhan kay puro pabor man ni Marcos ang balita. Nan karon ug moingon ta nga mag-eleksyon modaug jud si Marcos kay iya man ang gamhanan nga "political machinery" sa tibook Pilipinas ug siya ra ang nailhan.

WN

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bol-anon quo nyur! · « **Reply #196 on:** May 10, 2011, 07:26:55 AM »

Dili pareho. Ngano man? Tungod kay ang mga tawo nga napungot kaayo ni Marcos kadto ra mang magasigi ug basa ug opposition newspaper. Hibaw ba ka kung pila ra ka libo ang circulasyon sa newspaper sa panahon ni Marcos? 2,000 mil lang. Kay uban dili na layhan kay puro pabor man ni Marcos ang balita. Nan karon ug moingon ta nga mag-eleksyon modaug jud si Marcos kay iya man ang gamhanan nga "political machinery" sa tibook Pilipinas ug siya ra ang nailhan.

WN

SAY WHAT?

LAYO RA KAAYO'S TINO-OD NING IMONG REASONING!!!

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Way Nada · « **Reply #197 on:** May 10, 2011, 08:26:34 AM »

islander quoted:

i'm persistent and you are not?

Reply:

Yes you are persistent... The truth is; "Marcos was awarded medals during WW-II". The 2 generals of the US Army MacArthur and Wainwright awarded Marcos those medals and they were representing the US government. Marcos medals are in the custody of the AFP museum and his war records are in the US military archives.

The statements above is where I based my reasoning. If you are still persistent that my reasoning is without bases... then you must go to the US and the Philippine governments to verify since they are in the best position to know the truth about the medals of Marcos and not Bonifacio Gillego or the opinion of Jarius Bondoc.

According to the curator/custodian of the Marcos medals Gen. Restituto Aguilar; "Those who contest the authenticity of his [Marcos] medals should substantiate their allegations. It shall undergo investigations and should follow a processâ€.

islander quoted:

discussions such as what we have in this forum encourage us to learn more, through shared opinions and proper research and cross-references, with a certain detachment from one's emotional leanings and personal loyalties, so we can make informed conclusions. had you not mentioned that i or anyone who has an opposing view to yours should go to that afp museum consultant with the evidence that the medals are fake (what a non-sequitur!) or had you not insisted that there was no election cheating, i might have held on to some hope that there's some shred of intellect left in you.

Reply:

I agree but let us not go somewhere to the height of obstinacy just to insist a baseless and unfounded opinion. Why? Because Gillego's opinion is based on the opinion of other people like Lt. Manriquez. He [Gillego] tried to access the US achives but he was not permitted. How can we believe him? From Gillego's opinion it was copied by Jarius Bondoc and other opinion writers in the newspapers. All together your opinion is based on the newspapers. Marcos medals are in the court of public opinion so many times. This is trial by publicity against a dead man.

I have no emotional leanings and I have no brothers or sisters who were detained during Martial Law. My opposition to Marcos at the advent of Martial Law is simply political. I was there at the MIA when Ninoy Aquino arrived from the US.

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Way Nada · « **Reply #198 on:** May 10, 2011, 08:28:58 AM »

SAY WHAT?

LAYO RA KAAYO'S TINO-OD NING IMONG REASONING!!!

Nganong layo ra man sa tinood ang akong rason. Unsa may imong rason nga matawag nga tinood?

WN

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Lorenzo · « **Reply #199 on:** May 10, 2011, 09:19:38 AM »

Way Nada,

You're calm and steady nature under pressure is marvelous. You, good sir, are brilliant. Excellent debate to all members in here. Excellent.

I tip my hat to you, Sir WN.

Lorenz.

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