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islander

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Re: Late President Marcos To Be Buried in Libingan Ng Mga Bayani?
« Reply #120 on: May 06, 2011, 09:31:53 AM »


and just because there was an arms shipment for the communists the whole country’s freedom needed to be suppressed?  where was our then commander-in-chief’s military?  note that it’s the media that divulged this (according to you), and suddenly, you believe the media despite your repeated claims that they’re not worth believing?
Republic Act 8485 (Animal Welfare Act of 1998, Philippines), as amended and strengthened by House  Bill 6893 of 2013--- violation means a maximum of P250,000 fine with a corresponding three-year jail term and a minimum of P30,000 fine and six months imprisonment

islander

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Re: Late President Marcos To Be Buried in Libingan Ng Mga Bayani?
« Reply #121 on: May 06, 2011, 09:51:42 AM »

and that's why those trainees had to be silenced forever?

Way Nada

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Re: Late President Marcos To Be Buried in Libingan Ng Mga Bayani?
« Reply #122 on: May 06, 2011, 09:59:45 AM »

Quote:

you forget that during marcos's two-decade rule he controlled the media for over half of the period.  one of the first things he did after he declared martial law was the closure of all media outlets.  these slowly resurfaced when it was made sure that they would toe the government line.  add the fact that some outlets were taken over by his close associates (a kinder term for cronies), like roberto benedicto, and abs-cbn of the lopezes and rpn came under direct government management, among others.  and they cast aspersion against marcos?  come on.

your declaration that martial law's purpose was to save the country from communist despotism is those media's line.  yet you don't believe in the media?  how can you negate yourself?



Reply:

Martial Law is emergency government therefore those publishers who were antagonistic to Martial Law were detained and their newspapers closed or were taken over by the government. Their closure was not for long. It opened again with a new face lift and with a new horizon, so to speak. His purpose was not to control but to regulate the media. I believe it was also good for the people. Why?

Here is my explanation;

The media before Martial Law and in the post Martial Law media don't look any different. They are irresponsible media. In our constitution it says; "No law shall be passed abridging the freedom of speech, of expression or of the press". With this constitutional provision as their protection... they become as chaotic and as rambunctious media making themselves look like an unstoppable train on its track. Who cares? They can easily lambast and castigate politicians or other persons by the lure of the color of money. We think that our system is democratic but we are also well-known worldwide that there are more than many journalists killed if we are compared to some third world countries.   

Marcos was right... imagine they are more powerful than our elected officials and the president because we are to follow regulations.

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Quote:

it is not a media invention.  neither is your claim that it's a media invention an invention of the media because it is your invention. yes, cesar virata was the prime minister then who will call for an election, when told by marcos to do so.

Reply:

Your thinking is too extremist. It's a media invention because there is nothing in the constitution that says he [Marcos] can write a memo to appoint a new president. The Marcos government is parliamentary and the media misled the people... maybe because of their hatred towards Marcos they kept away from the people the information on how a parliamentary form of government works.

When Marcos dies Cesar Virata as Prime Minister will call for a snap election. There is no such thing as a memo to be followed. By the way... snap election is parliamentary terminology.

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WN



islander

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Re: Late President Marcos To Be Buried in Libingan Ng Mga Bayani?
« Reply #123 on: May 06, 2011, 10:09:46 AM »

Shakespeare[/b] with you, "The evil that men do lives after them; the good is oft interred with their bones."

Tho it may be argued and discussed that Marcos was corrupt etc etc, in the end, the man authored over 90 Republic Acts, all of which are still in effect to this day.

I would like to share a rhetorical question to the rest in here: If he was so bad and if his presence in the Philippines was negative, then why didn't the presidential administrations after Marcos repudiate the some 92 Republic Acts that Marcos authored?

my dear manoy lorenz, no one's saying here that his presidency was all negative.  besides, we're tackling here his burial as a hero, not his presidency or the republic acts he "wrote" or the performance of the other presidents after him.

islander

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Re: Late President Marcos To Be Buried in Libingan Ng Mga Bayani?
« Reply #124 on: May 06, 2011, 10:45:43 AM »

you're most welcome.  we are, at least, agreed on the mudslinging of politics, that's why you have no need to complain about the opposition denigrating marcos, right?

Way Nada

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Re: Late President Marcos To Be Buried in Libingan Ng Mga Bayani?
« Reply #125 on: May 06, 2011, 11:28:04 AM »

Quote:

if it wasn't, why didn't he simply go down and not run again after two terms because in the first place that was all that the 1935 constitution allowed him?  by 1972, he was already on his second and last term as president.  political analysts were already wagging that he was bound to stay longer.  everything in him, words and deeds, led those keen enough to understand human nature that it wasn't in him to give up power that easily.

Reply:

The presidential election was to be held in the month of November 1972. Marcos declared Martial Law on September 21, 1972. The election scheduled in November was cancelled and Marcos by virtue of Martial Law had a hold over power. Other political opinion at that time said that Marcos was right in his declaration of Martial Law. If Marcos stood down the communists will have taken over power.

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Quote:

1971 constitutional convention

When news broke out that Marcos planned to amend the constitution, allowing him to run for a third term in the presidential elections of 1973, student-led protests erupted in the streets, in what has since become known as the First Quarter Storm of 1970.  Later, student movements also led the Diliman Commune of February 1971.  Despite the violent protests, the Constitutional Convention still convened in June 1971.

Reply:

Ninoy Aquino was part of this plan to overthrow Marcos. He was caught in a tape recorded conversation with the communists. The university students of Manila were used as tool to create  chaos. In January of 1973 the new constitution was ratified by the people and came into effect.

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Quote:   

1986 snap elections

The snap elections were finally held on 7 February 1986, with Cory Aquino and Salvador “Doy” Laurel running against Marcos and Aurelio Tolentino for the presidency and the vice-presidency.  The heavily-anticipated elections were marred by vote-buying, oppression, and fraudulent results; with Commission on Elections (COMELEC) results were in favor of Marcos while the National Movement for Free Elections (NAMFREL) results were in favor of Aquino.  In protest, thirty computer operators walk out of the COMELEC tabulation center during the tabulation two days after the election.

Reply:

The allegation of oppression and fraudulent results in the snap election are not true. There was no oppression because Marcos was already established "name" among the people in the countryside. Marcos won because he had the political machinery and Cory Aquino with her saliva only. If I'm not telling you the truth then ask any politician worth his salt if a candidate without a political machinery can win in a national election.

Those who committed fraud in that election was Joe Concepcion and his Namfrel by manipulating the results through trending... which is why Comelec had a different result than Namfrel. The walked out of the computer operators was staged to show to the world media that the election was a farce. The real reason of all this election drama was the opposition knew they cannot defeat Marcos in a national election.

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Quote: 

One of the most brutal incidents that happened in connection with the snap elections was the killing of lawyer Evelio Javier, opposition ex-governor of Antique, on 11 February 1986.  Javier was chased and shot to death in broad daylight at the provincial capitol.  The assassination was considered as one of the tipping points that led to the revolution. At his funeral mass, the official statement of the Catholic Bishops' Conference of the Philippines was read, condemning the elections. (wikipedia)

Reply:

I agree. They made Evelio Javier a rallying point to their cause to oust Marcos by any means. It is also the same thing today in the massacre of people in Mindanao by the Ampatuan.

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Quote:

if these are still media inventions for you and you are therefore inclined not to believe, how does catholic church invention suit you?

Reply:

I am a catholic but I am not dogmatic. I am a traditionalist. The same with my treatment of the news in the media; I don't believe always as if they are gospel truth.

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WN

Lorenzo

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Re: Late President Marcos To Be Buried in Libingan Ng Mga Bayani?
« Reply #126 on: May 06, 2011, 11:43:14 AM »

noted, isles. thank you. in my personal opinion, i recognize that Marcos had some flaws , made especially evident during his later years but he did contribute some good things to the country. and in some ways i do admire him (for his good traits, of course, not the bad).

my view lang.

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Re: Late President Marcos To Be Buried in Libingan Ng Mga Bayani?
« Reply #127 on: May 06, 2011, 11:44:13 AM »

Way Nada, you are correct in maintaining your reservation in regards to the media. :)

Way Nada

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Re: Late President Marcos To Be Buried in Libingan Ng Mga Bayani?
« Reply #128 on: May 06, 2011, 11:49:05 AM »
(Enrique L. Locsin on Teodoro M. Locsin Sr.)[/i]


http://www.glphils.org/kinship/

Reply:

Thanks... you said it!  After Marcos re-election the PFP became a Marcos critic. When his father was arrested T. L. Locsin Sr. became an oppositionist. Joaquin Roces, Max Soliven, Serge Osmena and Gene Lopez... they were arrested. They are only few. In an emergency government it is always the intellectual person or persons  that are arrested.

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islander

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Re: Late President Marcos To Be Buried in Libingan Ng Mga Bayani?
« Reply #129 on: May 06, 2011, 12:07:11 PM »

so did marcos played politics as usual.  in fact, he played way, way before…

Quote
islander wrote:

"meantime, when something is questioned, there must be some weakness in that thing."

Reply:

Not necessarily. The things that is questioned by the media are the Marcos medals... and some people just swallow it hook, line and sinker. This not strange because there are lots of gullible people around. To show strenght of their claims they should show proof. According to the Philippine government through Gen. Restituto Aguilar; "Those who contest the authenticity of his [Marcos] medals should substantiate their allegations. It shall undergo investigations and should follow a process”. Until now nobody shows up to contest the Marcos medals. 

it follows, actually.  why cast aspersion on something that's unimpeachable?  let's note in the meantime that there are equally gullible people around who swallow hook, line, sinker and whale marcos’s purported 27 medals of heroism. 

Quote
islander wrote:   

"your belief that marcos deserved all his 27 war medals must have some basis, such as your readings and your choice of what to believe in your readings.  that’s your right."

Reply:

Of course! It's not only a belief but it's a fact of history that Marcos was awarded these medals during WW-II.

i like your selective understanding of history.

Way Nada

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Re: Late President Marcos To Be Buried in Libingan Ng Mga Bayani?
« Reply #130 on: May 06, 2011, 12:10:53 PM »
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2077/2343294650_58069f67aa.jpg[/img]
Jibin Arula, lone survivor of the Jabidah Massacre
He's the one in the middle of the photo, in the light blue shirt. 

at the time of the jabidah massacre in 1968, jibin arula was 27 years old. 

really, way nada, sir, it only takes a few minutes and some patience to browse the internet to verify these things.  i personally would not rely on my own figment of imagination, no matter how colorful it may be, just to make myself feel right about my personal biases.   

Reply:

If Arula is a real person he should have been subpoenaed to appear in congress and testify about the massacre. The case about the Jabidah massacre reached the Supreme Court but there was no Arula. In your case you get your information always from the media. The last bulwark of our democracy is always in a court of law and I rely more in the result of an investigation in a court of law. The Jabidah Massacre maybe was the invention of Ninoy Aquino and the media. Believing his own lies he went to Sulo to look for Arula.

WN

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Way Nada

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Re: Late President Marcos To Be Buried in Libingan Ng Mga Bayani?
« Reply #131 on: May 06, 2011, 12:16:18 PM »
Jabidah Massacre survivor to join anniversary rites [/size]

By Jocelyn Uy
Philippine Daily Inquirer
First Posted 22:49:00 03/17/2008

MANILA, Philippines -- An emblem that commemorates the scores of Moro youths killed in the Jabidah massacre 40 years ago will be unveiled on Tuesday at the Kindley Airfield on Corregidor Island, the scene of the atrocity, according to a Muslim group.

The gruesome Jabidah Massacre was believed to have sparked the Muslim rebellion.  According to the MindaNews web site, it is the reckoning date of the founding of the Moro National Liberation Front (MNLF) although its actual creation was on a much later date.

The event refers to the killings of about 60 Muslim youths trained to invade Sabah by henchmen of the late dictator President Ferdinand Marcos on March 18, 1968.

Only one survived to tell the tale, Jibin Arula, who is expected to lead anniversary rites by the Mindanao Peoples’ Caucus on Corregidor Island on Tuesday.

If Arula would be able to join the group, it would be his first time to set foot on Corregidor since the massacre.


More at http://opinion.inquirer.net/

Reply:

If there was a massacre please provide a court case. Did Arula testify in congress or in the court of law?

WN

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Way Nada

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Re: Late President Marcos To Be Buried in Libingan Ng Mga Bayani?
« Reply #132 on: May 06, 2011, 12:27:59 PM »

Reply:

Yes you are wrong. If you are not myopic then maybe you overlooked it. The communists in cahoots with Ninoy Aquino, the students and some of the clergy created the situation to suppress our freedom. Marcos made the preemptive action against the communists. The word "contrive" means to create a situation. Logic???

WN

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islander

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Re: Late President Marcos To Be Buried in Libingan Ng Mga Bayani?
« Reply #133 on: May 06, 2011, 12:36:17 PM »

horse aside, and talking of an iota (which the dictionary says is "a very small quantity or degree; a jot; a particle"), i hereby offer the following iotas:


Posing as the most decorated Filipino soldier of World War II, Ferdinand Marcos foisted 33 medals and awards.  Bonifacio Gillego, in opposing Marcos’s dictatorship, exposed in 1982:

• Eleven of the 33 were given in 1963, nearly 20 years after the War, when Marcos was Senate President girding to run for President.  Ten of the 11 were given on the same day, December 20. Three of the ten unusually were given under only one General Order.

• One award was given on Marcos’s 55th birthday, September 17, 1972, when he was President, four days before he imposed martial law.

• Eight of the 33 “American and Philippine medals,” as listed by Marcos’s Office of Media Affairs, were actually campaign ribbons given to all participants in the defense of Bataan and in the resistance.

• Awards are duplicated for the same action on the same day and place.

• One is a special award from the Veterans Federation of the Philippines.


From Marcos medals: Only 2 of 33 given in battle, By Jarius Bondoc,
The Philippine Star, Thursday, April 28th, 2011 / 08:40 PM


http://www.philstar.com/

Way Nada

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Re: Late President Marcos To Be Buried in Libingan Ng Mga Bayani?
« Reply #134 on: May 06, 2011, 12:51:22 PM »

Yes of course! That was the provision in the constitution that; "the president can declare Martial Law if in his own judgement the Philippines is in iminent danger of rebellion". The shipment of arms from China for the communists was a sign that there was a rebellion. It was not only in Luzon but in Mindanao the MNLF of Nur Misuari openly revolted against the government. This was also one of the factors for the closure of the media that; in time of crisis the media should be pro government.

WN

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islander

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Re: Late President Marcos To Be Buried in Libingan Ng Mga Bayani?
« Reply #135 on: May 06, 2011, 01:04:55 PM »

hehe, as the usual terminology of marcos worshippers is ‘hero’.

Quote
And one thing I can say about Enrile is that; when his life was already in danger during his defiance against Marcos and to attract sympathy from the people he invented a story that his "ambush" was staged by Marcos. His story is unbelievable because it was done at the time when he rebelled against his boss Marcos. If it is for the sake of the people... he should have divulged it long time ago.

so?  just because he didn’t divulge it at once his statement is rendered false?  a late confession does not make a confession false.  oh, it wasn’t marcos who staged the ambush.  like any lackey obeying his boss, enrile himself arranged it upon marcos’s orders.

Quote
islander wrote: 

"was the communists’ npa ever a threat to national security in the real sense of the word? on hindsight, but for the usual government yarn then, the more threatening at the time was our own military that had more political power and better weapons than the ragtag npa, which didn’t have the support of the greater part of the population.  but the communists provided the marcos government with the best excuse to wield power sans check and balance."

Reply:

Yes. The CPP-NPA currently poses the greatest armed threat to the Philippine government and has the widest grass-roots support among the various Philippine leftist insurgent groups. The conflict between the CPP-NPA and the Philippine government has taken thousands of lives since the NPA’s inception. The peace talks between the NDF and the government is going nowhere.

WN

wow!  this party and ideology, marcos’s bogeymen, had been sidelined since the fall of the berlin wall, and you still believe they’re a threat?  come on, do you really believe until now, more than two decades later, the propaganda of the marcos years, with the controlled media as the conveyors?  what decade are you living in?

bol-anon quo nyur!

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Re: Late President Marcos To Be Buried in Libingan Ng Mga Bayani?
« Reply #136 on: May 06, 2011, 01:16:03 PM »
 I was in DAVAO CITY during the SNAP ELECTION, & what i saw & experienced during those times is the TOTAL OPPOSITE sa gi ingon ni WAY NADA....what a JOKE! :D

islander

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Re: Late President Marcos To Be Buried in Libingan Ng Mga Bayani?
« Reply #137 on: May 06, 2011, 01:21:06 PM »

 with war medals. These war medals were awarded to Marcos at the time when the war in the Philippines was raging in 1942. The US and Philippine governments never reported that those medals awarded to Marcos were fake medals. 

I for one agree with the 2 generals.

WN

i, too, believe in the two generals.  but remember marcos's awards didn't all come from these two generals.  he purportedly displayed 27 (some say it's 33).  that's why it's worth my time to ponder on this:

OTHER OBSERVATIONS:

• Marcos earned the Medal of Valor “for extraordinary gallantry and intrepidity at the risk of life above and beyond the call of duty in a suicidal action against overwhelming enemy forces at the junction of Salian River and Abo-Abo River, Bataan, on or about 22 January 1942.”  This highest Philippine military award came only in October 1958, when he was senior congressman, 16 years after.

• Only two of the medals were given during the War.  The Gold Cross came on July 22, 1945, “for gallantry in action at Kiangan, Mt. Province, in April 1945.”  Supposedly “Colonel Marcos, of the 14th Infantry, United States Armed Forces in the Philippines-North Luzon (USAFIP-NL), with one enlisted man volunteered to reconnoiter area adjacent to the regimental command post at Panupdupan.”  Marcos spotted well-camouflaged enemy trucks about a mile away and sent the enlisted man back to RCP to report. By himself Marcos ambushed the Japanese, forcing them to flee after 30 minutes of intense fighting.

• The Distinguished Service Star came on April 24, 1945.  The citation read: “For outstanding achievement as a guerrilla leader.   After escaping from the Fort Santiago Kempei Tai, Marcos supported ex-Mayor Vicente Umali, organizer and commanding general of the PQOG…  Despite his illness, he stayed at the headquarters in Banahaw to guide both the staff and combat echelons.  He refused the rank of ‘general’ offered him by General Umali and organized his own guerrilla group known as the Maharlika.”

Interviewed by Gillego in 1982, Marcos’s two superiors in the 14th Infantry debunked both citations.  Col. Romulo A. Manriquez, regimental commander, swore that Marcos was never assigned to patrol or combat, only as S-5 or civil affairs.  Not a colonel but a captain, Marcos joined the 14th Infantry from December 4, 1944 to April 28, 1945.  No Maharlika guerrilla group was formed in Kiangan on April 24, 1945.

Capt. Vicente L. Rivera, 14th Infantry adjutant, added that he had never recommended Marcos for any decoration.  The sighting of Japanese trucks a mile from RCP was geographically impossible because the nearest road was too far, half a day’s hike away.



From GOTCHA, Jarius Bondoc, The Philippine Star
Thursday, April 28th, 2011 / 08:40 PM



 http://www.philstar.com/

islander

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xx - Late President Marcos To Be Buried in Libingan Ng Mga Bayani? - Talk of the Town
Re: Late President Marcos To Be Buried in Libingan Ng Mga Bayani?
« Reply #138 on: May 06, 2011, 01:43:35 PM »

maayo ka kay morag kalma-kalma ang davao ikomparar sa cebu atong panahona.  i was in the midst of the election as a young government worker.  purya, nasuko nako akong officemates kay wa ko mo-attend sa campaign ni marcos ug imelda sa cebu coliseum (pakaw-on mi ug magdala ug pompoms; nagpasumangil kog hilanat.  i felt then that i was too old to be a pompom-carrying cheerleader; professional na god kintahay ko. ;D )

worse, the whole office became a "secret tabulation center", with paid mediamen who came and went and were ready to report marcos with leading results.  (one of them was a boholano nga kanunay nako ikasingkahay kay luod kaayo ang iyang pagka-trying hard.  he became the office's laughingstock kay we knew he was there for the money.  supplier ra baya to siya ug mga girls sa mga visiting dignitaries.  naahat ug ka mediaman ang tonto.) 

the trick of the "secret tabulation center":  do not report the results of the opposition; set the mind of the people for marcos's victory.  my boss knew i would refuse; wa na ko pasudla sa office.  bata pa lagi ta, kamao pa mosukol, hehe.  pasumangil na lang akong boss ug assign nako sa voting centers.  nagnganga intawon ko sa may southern islands hospital gym, one of the voting centers.  hinoon, sige lang kog kaon ug potato chips didto.

when edsa happened, gitaktak ko sa akong trabaho.

note:  martial law had my brother detained at the stockade for nine months.  my sister was listed as "questionable".  a close relative was a concon delegate who got a mercedes benz from marcos.  need i say more?       

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xx - Late President Marcos To Be Buried in Libingan Ng Mga Bayani? - Talk of the Town
Re: Late President Marcos To Be Buried in Libingan Ng Mga Bayani?
« Reply #139 on: May 06, 2011, 01:48:33 PM »

So if you are agreeable... therefore the issue against the Marcos medals is politically motivated. It is true that denigrating and mudslinging are often used by vested interest group to take issue to further a political end. By asserting an idea under the protection of freedom of the press can you smear, defame or sully the reputation of a person? This is often predicated on lies and falsehood and I think this is wrong especially if the person concerned is a dead man.

Marcos since he first ran for election in 1948 he capitalized on his medals to attract voters to vote for him. He campaigned in the 1965 presidential election comparing him a war hero to the Liberal Party candidate Sergio Osmena Jr. who was selling scrap iron to the Japanese army during the war.

There was never an issue that his medals are fake until in 1982 a certain Bonifacio Gillego came out with his allegation that the Marcos medals are not genuine who relies his information from people supposedly Marcos comrades in arms during WW-II. Therefore it's a sort of info coming from gossip and political innuendoes... which is why they are really false. And more... not a single information from him that says; he sourced it from the archives of the US and Philippine military.

WN
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Bongbong Marcos' Statement at Libingan ng mga Bayani

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