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Way Nada

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Re: Late President Marcos To Be Buried in Libingan Ng Mga Bayani?
« Reply #100 on: May 05, 2011, 07:59:40 PM »

islander wrote: 

"two examples stand out.  the u.s. army never acknowledged the existence of the guerrilla unit named “ang maharlika” and marcos was never rewarded for his claimed bravery at the battle of bessang pass."

Reply:

The best piece of information whether the "Ang Mga Maharlika" headed by Marcos is a non existent guerilla unit during the war should come not from baseless ideas of thought from authors of books, newspaper reports or issues coming out of political innuendoes. To have a credible information about Marcos' Maharlika unit and his exploit during the war should come from a source in the military especially the history of WW-II. In this case there is no argument that Marcos records are in the military.

islander wrote:     

consider this:

"Marcos’s daring war adventures first saw print in a 1948 magazine series.  The young lawyer supposedly had formed a 9,200-strong guerrilla group called Mga Maharlika (The Nobles) in North Luzon.  Unmindful of danger, he led more than 300 skirmishes with the mighty Japanese Imperial Army, for which he was decorated 27 times.  Thus did Marcos earn in 1947 a post in the Philippine commission that lobbied with the US for veterans’ benefits.   Riding on the daredevil acclaim, he handily won in 1949 a congressional seat."

Reply:

You are right! If you have doubts about what you wrote then consult the military historian and not the newspaper writer.

WN

Way Nada

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Re: Late President Marcos To Be Buried in Libingan Ng Mga Bayani?
« Reply #101 on: May 05, 2011, 08:03:14 PM »

Election by the people carries a heavier weight of credibility than a people's uprising. In our constitution election is the legal way to become president.

WN

Way Nada

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Re: Late President Marcos To Be Buried in Libingan Ng Mga Bayani?
« Reply #102 on: May 05, 2011, 08:16:38 PM »

Mao pud ni resulta sa imong "bias" nga panghuna-huna batok ni Marcos. Pildi si Cory sa eleksyon. Si Marcos ang hing-daug. Di jud mahitabo nga modaug si Cory ni Marcos adtong panahona... ngano? Tungod kay si Marcos nakagamut na sa mga probinsiya. Si Cory nailhan lang sa mga ciudad. Pero sa mga balita sa mantalaan kontra kaajo ni Marcos ug mao ni imong gibasihan. Ang eleksyon kinahanglan naay imong organisasyon [political machinery] para ka modaug Si Cory wa'y makinaryas; si Marcos tibook Pilipinas ang iyan organisasyon. Tanan mga mayores sa probinsiya tua dapig ni Marcos.

Unsaon pagdaug ni Cory?

WN


hubag bohol

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Re: Late President Marcos To Be Buried in Libingan Ng Mga Bayani?
« Reply #103 on: May 05, 2011, 08:39:12 PM »


And what's the legal way of deposing a dictator?
...than to speak out and remove all doubt." - Abraham Lincoln

bol-anon quo nyur!

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Re: Late President Marcos To Be Buried in Libingan Ng Mga Bayani?
« Reply #104 on: May 05, 2011, 09:16:52 PM »
 para ka modaug Si Cory wa'y makinaryas; si Marcos tibook Pilipinas ang iyan organisasyon. Tanan mga mayores sa probinsiya tua dapig ni Marcos.

Unsaon pagdaug ni Cory

WN



 hehehe, mao bah? :o   ang imong gisulti mahintungod ani nga snap election, "LAYO RA KAAYO SA TINO-OD"  :D

islander

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Re: Late President Marcos To Be Buried in Libingan Ng Mga Bayani?
« Reply #105 on: May 06, 2011, 04:08:45 AM »


you forget that during marcos's two-decade rule he controlled the media for over half of the period.  one of the first things he did after he declared martial law was the closure of all media outlets.  these slowly resurfaced when it was made sure that they would toe the government line.  add the fact that some outlets were taken over by his close associates (a kinder term for cronies), like roberto benedicto, and abs-cbn of the lopezes and rpn came under direct government management, among others.  and they cast aspersion against marcos?  come on.

your declaration that martial law's purpose was to save the country from communist despotism is those media's line.  yet you don't believe in the media?  how can you negate yourself?

Quote
islander wrote:    

"the fact that he had a memo prepared for his wife to take over his presidency of the land is not a media invention, as we may know."

Reply:

It's a media invention and there is no memo of that kind. I think the government introduced by Marcos is new to us and most do not understand how it works. We are being misled by the media that if Marcos dies Imelda will take over. No... it is not that way a parliamentary system works. Cesar Virata who was the prime minister will call for an election.


it is not a media invention.  neither is your claim that it's a media invention an invention of the media because it is your invention. yes, cesar virata was the prime minister then who will call for an election, when told by marcos to do so.

Quote

islander wrote:    

"whatever wrong values were brought along by our colonizers have nothing to do with his decision to stay on and on and on."

Reply:

It was not his decision to stay on forever. He was elected by the people.

WN


if it wasn't, why didn't he simply go down and not run again after two terms because in the first place that was all that the 1935 constitution allowed him?  by 1972, he was already on his second and last term as president.  political analysts were already wagging that he was bound to stay longer.  everything in him, words and deeds, led those keen enough to understand human nature that it wasn't in him to give up power that easily.  

1969 elections

marcos wins a second term, a first in philippine history, in an election allegedly marred by violence, massive cheating, and heavy spending on marcos's part.

1971 constitutional convention

When news broke out that Marcos planned to amend the constitution, allowing him to run for a third term in the presidential elections of 1973, student-led protests erupted in the streets, in what has since become known as the First Quarter Storm of 1970.  Later, student movements also led the Diliman Commune of February 1971.  Despite the violent protests, the Constitutional Convention still convened in June 1971.
http://pcij.org/

1986 snap elections

The snap elections were finally held on 7 February 1986, with Cory Aquino and Salvador “Doy” Laurel running against Marcos and Aurelio Tolentino for the presidency and the vice-presidency.  The heavily-anticipated elections were marred by vote-buying, oppression, and fraudulent results; with Commission on Elections (COMELEC) results were in favor of Marcos while the National Movement for Free Elections (NAMFREL) results were in favor of Aquino.  In protest, thirty computer operators walk out of the COMELEC tabulation center during the tabulation two days after the election.

One of the most brutal incidents that happened in connection with the snap elections was the killing of lawyer Evelio Javier, opposition ex-governor of Antique, on 11 February 1986.  Javier was chased and shot to death in broad daylight at the provincial capitol.  The assassination was considered as one of the tipping points that led to the revolution. At his funeral mass, the official statement of the Catholic Bishops' Conference of the Philippines was read, condemning the elections. (wikipedia)


if these are still media inventions for you and you are therefore inclined not to believe, how does catholic church invention suit you?
  
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islander

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Re: Late President Marcos To Be Buried in Libingan Ng Mga Bayani?
« Reply #106 on: May 06, 2011, 04:29:10 AM »


either ka terry was a child soldier (horrors!)

or

way nada (with due respect) copied this directly from a history book published more than a decade ago (this must be a history book because he doesn't believe in media reports, though i can see that the reporter he names is one jo clemente of the inquirer)...

Lorenzo

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Re: Late President Marcos To Be Buried in Libingan Ng Mga Bayani?
« Reply #107 on: May 06, 2011, 04:35:16 AM »
This is a very interesting discourse. Thanks Way Nada, Islander, Manong Hubs and all the rest.

islander

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Re: Late President Marcos To Be Buried in Libingan Ng Mga Bayani?
« Reply #108 on: May 06, 2011, 07:32:34 AM »

most welcome, manoy lorenz. ;D

Way Nada

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Re: Late President Marcos To Be Buried in Libingan Ng Mga Bayani?
« Reply #109 on: May 06, 2011, 07:56:21 AM »

Again it is always in an election. Remember revolution is always illegal.

WN

Way Nada

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Re: Late President Marcos To Be Buried in Libingan Ng Mga Bayani?
« Reply #110 on: May 06, 2011, 08:00:31 AM »

Maybe he was a teenager at that time. The book was written not this year of course.

WN

Lorenzo

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Re: Late President Marcos To Be Buried in Libingan Ng Mga Bayani?
« Reply #111 on: May 06, 2011, 08:06:13 AM »

aha! Your post reminds me of the famous jest Francois la Rochefoucauld-Liancourt once said, "“The young are generally full of revolt, and are often pretty revolting about it.”

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Re: Late President Marcos To Be Buried in Libingan Ng Mga Bayani?
« Reply #112 on: May 06, 2011, 08:10:29 AM »
Way Nada, I would like to share a quote from from Shakespeare with you, "The evil that men do lives after them; the good is oft interred with their bones."

Tho it may be argued and discussed that Marcos was corrupt etc etc, in the end, the man authored over 90 Republic Acts, all of which are still in effect to this day.

I would like to share a rhetorical question to the rest in here: If he was so bad and if his presence in the Philippines was negative, then why didn't the presidential administrations after Marcos repudiate the some 92 Republic Acts that Marcos authored?


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Re: Late President Marcos To Be Buried in Libingan Ng Mga Bayani?
« Reply #113 on: May 06, 2011, 08:21:55 AM »
 by the military in Corregidor the PFP and other anti Marcos newspapers bannered the story without even bothering to investigate whether there is truth to their story. Ninoy in a privilege speech spoke of a massacre in congress and that a certain recruit named Arula who survived the massacre was picked up by fishermen in Manila Bay. This was not true and Ninoy believing his own lies went to Sulo to inquire about the person Arula after his speech in congress and he cannot find such a person.

Marcos allegedly signed an approval to recruit Muslims to be trained clandestinely by the military to sabotage Sabah. In an act of treachery in the person of Ninoy; he divulged to the world of a massacre of muslim in Corregidor. The story of a massacre was a myth creating a crisis for the Philippines when the Australian and the New Zealand navies were deployed right in front of Palawan in defense of Malaysia... an ally in the British commonwealth. The British deployed also the Gurkha Fighters in Sabah to help Malaysia in case the Philippines invade Sabah or North Borneo.

The Philippine government apologized to the Malaysian and the British Commonwealth saying that it was only part of the free rolling Philippine press. But the PFP and other anti Marcos newspapers never rectify their story.

WN


The Malaysians (with the help of the British Forces and Australian Forces) was able to defeat the Indonesian-Malaysian Konfrontasi. The result of which led to Sukarno's loss of legitimacy and an administration change in Indonesia.

I would deign to add that Marcos, who was a law bar top-knotcher, was not as stupid as Sukarno in engaging the Malaysians (with their Commonwealth clout). Tho the state of Malaysia is a British invention and despite North Borneo's historical relations with the Philippines, Marcos knew there really was nothing he could do after Malaysia proved itself that it could defend her right to national sovereignty.


islander

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Re: Late President Marcos To Be Buried in Libingan Ng Mga Bayani?
« Reply #114 on: May 06, 2011, 08:45:19 AM »


don’t tell me it was wrong for the philippine free press magazine (which was established in 1907) to honor marcos as man of the year in 1965.  

meanwhile, here's a little backgrounder that may be worth our while:

“Since 1946, our father has exposed the corruption of Philippine politics through every administration. Having defied the moves of Marcos to impose martial law, he was, upon the declaration of martial law in 1972, arrested and detained.  The Philippines Free Press was shut down, and its assets were sold to a Marcos crony. In 1985, however, our father resumed the publication of the Philippines Free Press to support the candidacy of Corazon Cojuangco Aquino - even in the teeth of military censorship.”  (Enrique L. Locsin on Teodoro M. Locsin Sr.)


http://www.glphils.org/kinship/

islander

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Re: Late President Marcos To Be Buried in Libingan Ng Mga Bayani?
« Reply #115 on: May 06, 2011, 08:54:59 AM »

 by the military in Corregidor the PFP and other anti Marcos newspapers bannered the story without even bothering to investigate whether there is truth to their story. Ninoy in a privilege speech spoke of a massacre in congress and that a certain recruit named Arula who survived the massacre was picked up by fishermen in Manila Bay. This was not true and Ninoy believing his own lies went to Sulo to inquire about the person Arula after his speech in congress and he cannot find such a person.

jibin arula is real, alive and well.  if indeed as you claim ninoy didn’t find him when he went to sulu, why, of course, if i were arula, i would not trust any government man to see me.  i’d be too paranoid by then to even believe that the government man in the person of ninoy may even be followed by some military sniper out to finish me off.  

2343294650_58069f67aa - Late President Marcos To Be Buried in Libingan Ng Mga Bayani? - Talk of the Town
Jibin Arula, lone survivor of the Jabidah Massacre
He's the one in the middle of the photo, in the light blue shirt.  

at the time of the jabidah massacre in 1968, jibin arula was 27 years old.  

really, way nada, sir, it only takes a few minutes and some patience to browse the internet to verify these things.  i personally would not rely on my own figment of imagination, no matter how colorful it may be, just to make myself feel right about my personal biases.    

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Re: Late President Marcos To Be Buried in Libingan Ng Mga Bayani?
« Reply #116 on: May 06, 2011, 09:00:05 AM »



So you expect the dictator to conduct a clean and honest election to find out whether or not the people he is oppressing would want to throw him out? You expect him to honor the voice of the people? Or ar you saying that the people have no recourse at all and therefore will just have to accept their misfortune and stoically wait for the oppressor to die?

What some dictators do is cling to legitimacy by insisting on the letter of the law (which oftentimes was made by them)--the spirit of the law and the sentiments and welfare of their people be damned.

islander

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Re: Late President Marcos To Be Buried in Libingan Ng Mga Bayani?
« Reply #117 on: May 06, 2011, 09:04:32 AM »

the philippine government apologized in embarrassment, knowing that the secret plan to invade sabah (it wasn't to sabotage) was secret no more because of ninoy, will not have any foreign help, even from the u.s., which despite bilateral military agreements is wont to side with the british.  we didn’t stand a chance.  to supposedly continue keeping the operation secret (face-saving at the expense of lives), the trainees were allegedly massacred. the lone survivor, the one who came out alive to tell the tale, is real and alive and well, as you can see.

Jabidah Massacre survivor to join anniversary rites

By Jocelyn Uy
Philippine Daily Inquirer
First Posted 22:49:00 03/17/2008

MANILA, Philippines -- An emblem that commemorates the scores of Moro youths killed in the Jabidah massacre 40 years ago will be unveiled on Tuesday at the Kindley Airfield on Corregidor Island, the scene of the atrocity, according to a Muslim group.

The gruesome Jabidah Massacre was believed to have sparked the Muslim rebellion.  According to the MindaNews web site, it is the reckoning date of the founding of the Moro National Liberation Front (MNLF) although its actual creation was on a much later date.

The event refers to the killings of about 60 Muslim youths trained to invade Sabah by henchmen of the late dictator President Ferdinand Marcos on March 18, 1968.

Only one survived to tell the tale, Jibin Arula, who is expected to lead anniversary rites by the Mindanao Peoples’ Caucus on Corregidor Island on Tuesday.

If Arula would be able to join the group, it would be his first time to set foot on Corregidor since the massacre.


More at http://opinion.inquirer.net/

islander

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Re: Late President Marcos To Be Buried in Libingan Ng Mga Bayani?
« Reply #118 on: May 06, 2011, 09:15:09 AM »

 freedom”, it meant that marcos took away the democratic freedom that was known by the filipino people, that freedom for which those soldiers both dead and living fought for during world war 2,..."

Reply:

I think you are wrong. He did not contrive to suppress our freedom but the communists did. The bombing of Plaza Miranda created the situation as attested to by Cor. Victor Corpuz... after the fall of Marcos when he returned to his unit in the AFP. Ex senator Jovito Salonga a political opponent of Marcos accused him as the mastermind in the Plaza Miranda bombing; but after listening to accounts of the bombing by former communists Romulo Kintanar who returned to the fold of the law saying that; Plaza Miranda bombing was the brainchild of the communists... he [Salonga] stops his accusation.

i think i’m not wrong; i’m just looking at things without myopia.  how can people of another ideology who are not in power ever have the power to suppress a whole country’s freedom?    did the communists do away with the writ of habeas corpus?  did they suppress the press?  let us grant that the communists may have terrified the people, especially those in the countryside, but suppress our freedom?  they were too far away from the reins of power to be able to do that.  have you heard of the word ‘logic’?

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Re: Late President Marcos To Be Buried in Libingan Ng Mga Bayani?
« Reply #119 on: May 06, 2011, 09:26:52 AM »

sure, that was some series of headlines in those days, courtesy of the media.  kintanar’s execution needed all the media exposure it could get as points for the government in the same way that osama bin laden’s assassination now is earning media mileage and points for the u.s.

so kintanar was liquidated for being a traitor, but so did some non-communists who criticized the marcos government also inexplicably disappear forever.  (foremost was one-time presidential confidante and press secretary primitivo mijares, author of 'the conjugal dictatorship of ferdinand and imelda marcos'.  there were unexplained disappearances of an estimated 10 thousand others, all allegedlly against the marcos dictatorship.)
   
it doesn’t follow that just because one side is wrong the other is right.



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Bongbong Marcos' Statement at Libingan ng mga Bayani

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Last post November 20, 2016, 01:04:51 AM
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