Author Topic: Muslim Face Veil Banned in Belgium  (Read 6195 times)

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Muslim Face Veil Banned in Belgium
« on: April 30, 2010, 05:41:05 PM »
Belgium's lower house of parliament has voted for a law that would ban women from wearing the full Islamic face veil in public.

The law would ban any clothing that obscures the identity of the wearer in places like parks and on the street. No-one voted against it.

The law now goes to the Senate, where it may face challenges over its wording, which may delay it.

If passed, the ban would be the first move of its kind in Europe.

Only around 30 women wear this kind of veil in Belgium, out of a Muslim population of around half a million.

The BBC's Dominic Hughes in Brussels says MPs backed the legislation on the grounds of security, to allow police to identify people.

Other MPs said that the full face veil was a symbol of the oppression of women, our correspondent says. - BBC

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Re: Muslim Face Veil Banned in Belgium
« Reply #1 on: April 30, 2010, 08:09:12 PM »


The law was carefully formulated in Belgium without mentioning the word Burkah. The penalty is 25 Euro or 7 days imprisonment. France had been considering to implement such law but Belgium imposed it faster than the neighboring country.
Niay daghan dinhe sa Germany gasoroy soroy, adunay brown, white, black and reddish burkah.

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Re: Muslim Face Veil Banned in Belgium
« Reply #2 on: April 30, 2010, 11:04:14 PM »
Asa naman ang religious freedom nila ani? Ug mao ni custom sa mga Muslims ug tradition unya ibawal nila murag gikuhaan napud sila ug religious freedom nga ipakita ilang pagka Muslim. Di ba daghan Muslim sa Europe dapat ipaglaban ni nila.

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Re: Muslim Face Veil Banned in Belgium
« Reply #3 on: May 01, 2010, 01:59:34 AM »
I think they need to see the face especially in driving a car. Raqs, european countries are mostly christians, as the immigrants grow, they resisted to be integrated to the society. Some are living in ghettos. after 9/11, suspicions grew.
Here in Germany, the federal republic of Niedersachsen appointed for the first time a Turk lady Aygül Özkan (CDU) - Ministerin für Soziales, Frauen, Familie, Gesundheit und Integration.
In her first interview she said she would like to remove crucifixes in public schools and disallow girls using headwear. There was a great uproar among the populace on her opinion. The CDU party was shocked and they tried to appease the public.



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Re: Muslim Face Veil Banned in Belgium
« Reply #4 on: May 03, 2010, 12:52:59 AM »
my two-cents' worth here:

1.  i've asked about the face veil from a good number of muslim women (i've been around and have gone to quite a number of countries, so to speak) who struck me as having a more sophisticated education than i had, and was told repeatedly that a face veil is a muslim woman's choice.  it was even said that nowhere in the quoran can one find a passage that requires a face veil for women.

2.  it is a choice mostly by women who happen to be muslim of arab culture or proximity to that culture (in geographic terms, those in the middle east, south asia, and some areas in north africa).  muslim women in turkey, some eastern european areas (kosovo and some countries in the caucasus, for instance) do not wear face veils.  neither are there face veils for indonesian and malaysian women or our muslim sisters in mindanao.  that doesn't make them less muslim.  

one may therefore conclude that the face veil is more cultural than religious.  the term 'muslim face veil' therefore veers on the politically incorrect.  it's almost like saying 'christian necktie'.    

                                                                                               -to be continued-  

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Re: Muslim Face Veil Banned in Belgium
« Reply #5 on: May 03, 2010, 01:35:10 AM »
3.  as for the ban in belgium, it is understandable.  foreigners who immigrate to other countries must do their best to assimilate.  it doesn't mean that they must totally leave their past behind or do away with their own culture, but if they must invoke their rights (freedom of religion, labor laws, social welfare, etc.) in their host countries, they have to give up something of themselves too.  the simplest is not to stick out like a sore thumb in the midst of the local population.  (honestly, if one isn’t used to meeting someone wearing the burqa, it’s so disconcerting because it is as if one is seeing a walking coffin.  sorry.)

4.  i suppose the face veil isn’t much to ask for by a host country in the western world that must protect its own culture as it is expected to protect human rights.  and yes, there too are their security concerns.  one can never tell whether it’s a man or a woman or the president of the republic behind that face veil, at least in the west.       

5.  saudi arabia and iran require women visitors from any country to wear the abaya or chador (those black, straight, shapeless, floor length women’s outer clothing and head cover).  those who don’t want to need not go to these countries.  so why shouldn’t western countries like belgium have their own rules too about attires, specially when the rules apply not to visitors who come and go but to immigrants who chose to become their citizens?   




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Re: Muslim Face Veil Banned in Belgium
« Reply #6 on: May 03, 2010, 03:05:34 AM »

5.  saudi arabia and iran require women visitors from any country to wear the abaya or chador (those black, straight, shapeless, floor length women’s outer clothing and head cover).  




I dont blame Belgium for banning these veils, the statement above tells everything. Weather you're a citizen or not. Miss Isles that is very correct. it is not required in their religion but their culture.

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Re: Muslim Face Veil Banned in Belgium
« Reply #7 on: May 03, 2010, 04:15:46 AM »
3.  as for the ban in belgium, it is understandable.  foreigners who immigrate to other countries must do their best to assimilate.  it doesn't mean that they must totally leave their past behind or do away with their own culture, but if they must invoke their rights (freedom of religion, labor laws, social welfare, etc.) in their host countries, they have to give up something of themselves too.  the simplest is not to stick out like a sore thumb in the midst of the local population.  (honestly, if one isn’t used to meeting someone wearing the burqa, it’s so disconcerting because it is as if one is seeing a walking coffin.  sorry.)

4.  i suppose the face veil isn’t much to ask for by a host country in the western world that must protect its own culture as it is expected to protect human rights.  and yes, there too are their security concerns.  one can never tell whether it’s a man or a woman or the president of the republic behind that face veil, at least in the west.       

5.  saudi arabia and iran require women visitors from any country to wear the abaya or chador (those black, straight, shapeless, floor length women’s outer clothing and head cover).  those who don’t want to need not go to these countries.  so why shouldn’t western countries like belgium have their own rules too about attires, specially when the rules apply not to visitors who come and go but to immigrants who chose to become their citizens?   




I am so with you on this. If its for security reasons, then why not. Its for the good of the populace.

A good example would be the Japanese. While many may wear western garb outside the home, at home, they preserve their own culture. To the extent they want to preserve it.

A man's home is his castle, if they want to preserve their culture, do it in the privacy of their own home, otherwise , show respect to their host country and follow the rules.

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Re: Muslim Face Veil Banned in Belgium
« Reply #8 on: May 03, 2010, 04:24:59 AM »
I think they need to see the face especially in driving a car. Raqs, european countries are mostly christians, as the immigrants grow, they resisted to be integrated to the society. Some are living in ghettos. after 9/11, suspicions grew.
Here in Germany, the federal republic of Niedersachsen appointed for the first time a Turk lady Aygül Özkan (CDU) - Ministerin für Soziales, Frauen, Familie, Gesundheit und Integration.
In her first interview she said she would like to remove crucifixes in public schools and disallow girls using headwear. There was a great uproar among the populace on her opinion. The CDU party was shocked and they tried to appease the public.



Wow...I can only imagine if this was the other way around. They can disrespect Christianity and you don't hear too much about it, while even a perceived slight of  anything Muslin causes an uproar. A lot of the time, it puzzles me why people are so rude to others. 

THere was one Christmas here when they wanted to ban Christmas trees and didn't even want the Nativity Scene by the City Hall...(various other parts of the US). The US is predominantly Christian but has great political, cultural and religious  tolerance.  In one street here in Houston, you can see a Mosque, further down, a Buddhist temple and then a Christian Church.

That woman just needs to be kicked out of office. She's setting a bad example and stirring resentment fostering more anti-muslim sentiment of people who are already not too fond of them. More trouble than she's worth IMO

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Re: Muslim Face Veil Banned in Belgium
« Reply #9 on: May 03, 2010, 05:39:04 AM »
ja it is absolutely TABU wearing face veil while driving,
headdress or the so-called "kopftuch" is acceptable.
Face veil is exaggerating tsk³  ;D



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Re: Muslim Face Veil Banned in Belgium
« Reply #11 on: May 03, 2010, 09:11:44 AM »





bwahahahhaha! I have a picture of like that from last night!!! pero wa jamo  headress! hahahaha!

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Re: Muslim Face Veil Banned in Belgium
« Reply #12 on: May 03, 2010, 11:08:52 AM »




kung naa nis Pegasus, bisan pag libre, di jud ko motan-aw hahahahaha

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Re: Muslim Face Veil Banned in Belgium
« Reply #13 on: May 03, 2010, 11:47:10 AM »

bwahahahhaha! I have a picture of like that from last night!!! pero wa jamo  headress! hahahaha!

No headress, nor, for that matter, any other article of clothing! Bwahaha!

Taym sa, ikaw tingali to ang gipiktyuran nga nag pole dancing, he he... ;D

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Re: Muslim Face Veil Banned in Belgium
« Reply #14 on: May 03, 2010, 11:50:38 AM »
kung naa nis Pegasus, bisan pag libre, di jud ko motan-aw hahahahaha

Naa bayay show nga ingon ani, Bay Glace, pero dayong ending hukason ang gisul-ob, so payts gihapon. Ang nakadaot lang kay inighubo na, naa diay nagbitay! Bwahaha! ;D

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Re: Muslim Face Veil Banned in Belgium
« Reply #15 on: May 03, 2010, 11:52:50 AM »
No headress, nor, for that matter, any other article of clothing! Bwahaha!

Taym sa, ikaw tingali to ang gipiktyuran nga nag pole dancing, he he... ;D


hahahahahhha!

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Re: Muslim Face Veil Banned in Belgium
« Reply #16 on: May 03, 2010, 12:01:43 PM »
Naa bayay show nga ingon ani, Bay Glace, pero dayong ending hukason ang gisul-ob, so payts gihapon. Ang nakadaot lang kay inighubo na, naa diay nagbitay! Bwahaha! ;D

mao lagi na. unya, mabawi ba diay nimo tong imong gibayad na di naman. kini usa ka sanglitanan jud kung nganong uyon ko nga i-ban kini sa publikong dapit (binayran man o dili), kay alkanse ta. it's an affront to my need for security and my sexual sensibilities. tiaw bay inig hubo, naay gabitay, kay gatoo tag puday apan dili diay...di ba ta ma-trauma ana? hahhahahaa

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Re: Muslim Face Veil Banned in Belgium
« Reply #17 on: May 03, 2010, 12:15:03 PM »
mao lagi na. unya, mabawi ba diay nimo tong imong gibayad na di naman. kini usa ka sanglitanan jud kung nganong uyon ko nga i-ban kini sa publikong dapit (binayran man o dili), kay alkanse ta. it's an affront to my need for security and my sexual sensibilities. tiaw bay inig hubo, naay gabitay, kay gatoo tag puday apan dili diay...di ba ta ma-trauma ana? hahhahahaa


bwahahaha! paita!

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Re: Muslim Face Veil Banned in Belgium
« Reply #18 on: May 03, 2010, 12:22:35 PM »
mao lagi na. unya, mabawi ba diay nimo tong imong gibayad na di naman. kini usa ka sanglitanan jud kung nganong uyon ko nga i-ban kini sa publikong dapit (binayran man o dili), kay alkanse ta. it's an affront to my need for security and my sexual sensibilities. tiaw bay inig hubo, naay gabitay, kay gatoo tag puday apan dili diay...di ba ta ma-trauma ana? hahhahahaa

Bwahaha! Naa ra bay uban nga perfect ang boobs, pero mao lagi na, naay nagbitay. Shock and awe ang epekto... ;D



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Re: Muslim Face Veil Banned in Belgium
« Reply #19 on: May 03, 2010, 12:23:43 PM »
Bwahaha! Naa ra bay uban nga perfect ang boobs, pero mao lagi na, naay nagbitay. Shock and awe ang epekto... ;D


naa naman sad uban fake nga bangag like one of my gay friends...

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Re: Muslim Face Veil Banned in Belgium
« Reply #20 on: May 03, 2010, 12:26:02 PM »

bwahahaha! paita!

Bwahaha! Patay ang uts, kalit lag hijos. Ang nakaporke kon next time bisan tinuod na nga baje, di na hinuon mo-react si manoy. Paet... ;D

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Re: Muslim Face Veil Banned in Belgium
« Reply #21 on: May 03, 2010, 12:27:32 PM »

naa naman sad uban fake nga bangag like one of my gay friends...

Fake, pero unsa man, magamit kuno gihapon as intended?

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Re: Muslim Face Veil Banned in Belgium
« Reply #22 on: May 03, 2010, 12:28:07 PM »
Bwahaha! Patay ang uts, kalit lag hijos. Ang nakaporke kon next time bisan tinuod na nga baje, di na hinuon mo-react si manoy. Paet... ;D


tinuod! lingiw lingiwan nalang ni manoy! di na mo pa sukip ug tag 10 bucks!

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Re: Muslim Face Veil Banned in Belgium
« Reply #23 on: May 03, 2010, 05:15:33 PM »
Naa bayay show nga ingon ani, Bay Glace, pero dayong ending hukason ang gisul-ob, so payts gihapon. Ang nakadaot lang kay inighubo na, naa diay nagbitay! Bwahaha! ;D

whahaha ma trauma jod ang anaconda di na kamao motoyhakaw mating pa..!

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Re: Muslim Face Veil Banned in Belgium
« Reply #24 on: May 03, 2010, 05:23:16 PM »
Aygül Özkan,  this government minister of Niedersachsen is in facebook, I´ve given my opinion already on her intentions to remove crucifix in public schools.

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Re: Muslim Face Veil Banned in Belgium
« Reply #25 on: May 03, 2010, 05:25:59 PM »


Burkah can be appealing to the eyes!

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Re: Muslim Face Veil Banned in Belgium
« Reply #26 on: May 03, 2010, 06:27:40 PM »


Burkah can be appealing to the eyes!

Ah, now I know why the burka has always appealed to me! ;D

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Re: Muslim Face Veil Banned in Belgium
« Reply #27 on: May 03, 2010, 08:06:03 PM »
whahaha morag nabali ang pagtabon nah? haragaa!

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Re: Muslim Face Veil Banned in Belgium
« Reply #28 on: May 03, 2010, 09:54:05 PM »


Burkah can be appealing to the eyes!



hahahhahahaha! bahala basta di makita ang nawong!!! hahahahaha!

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Raquelproud boholana

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Re: Muslim Face Veil Banned in Belgium
« Reply #29 on: May 03, 2010, 10:44:31 PM »
my two-cents' worth here:

1.  i've asked about the face veil from a good number of muslim women (i've been around and have gone to quite a number of countries, so to speak) who struck me as having a more sophisticated education than i had, and was told repeatedly that a face veil is a muslim woman's choice.  it was even said that nowhere in the quoran can one find a passage that requires a face veil for women.

2.  it is a choice mostly by women who happen to be muslim of arab culture or proximity to that culture (in geographic terms, those in the middle east, south asia, and some areas in north africa).  muslim women in turkey, some eastern european areas (kosovo and some countries in the caucasus, for instance) do not wear face veils.  neither are there face veils for indonesian and malaysian women or our muslim sisters in mindanao.  that doesn't make them less muslim. 

one may therefore conclude that the face veil is more cultural than religious.  the term 'muslim face veil' therefore veers on the politically incorrect.  it's almost like saying 'christian necktie'.     

                                                                                               -to be continued- 
Dili jud diay ni part sa ilang religion so unsa man intawoy tig antus ug suot ani ug ok raman diay nga wa ni sila ani. Dapat ipakita ang beauty with confidence hehehe. Init man dagway pud ning segi ug tabon oi. Hilig man ning muslim mang make up so sayang ilang make up di ipakita labi na tong murag nagtabon ug sako nga wa jud nay makita  unya ilang buhok pud di makita.



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Re: Muslim Face Veil Banned in Belgium
« Reply #30 on: May 03, 2010, 11:20:57 PM »
Dili jud diay ni part sa ilang religion so unsa man intawoy tig antus ug suot ani ug ok raman diay nga wa ni sila ani. Dapat ipakita ang beauty with confidence hehehe. Init man dagway pud ning segi ug tabon oi. Hilig man ning muslim mang make up so sayang ilang make up di ipakita labi na tong murag nagtabon ug sako nga wa jud nay makita  unya ilang buhok pud di makita.












sus ug mag party diay na sila mga baje kay pasikatay! nakakita ka sa ilang mga MALLs? they got top of the line stuff for women! matingala ka nganong naa silay mga malls nga mga mahalon para sa mga baje? kay diay ig  naa diay na silay get together, magpa BONGGAHAY diay na sila! hahahahhaha!

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lindy

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Re: Muslim Face Veil Banned in Belgium
« Reply #31 on: May 04, 2010, 01:14:56 AM »
I respect freedom and tradition Day Raquel, If you are in your own Country and place. But, if you are not, then respect also the tradition and custom of your host Country. In Saudi Arabia for example, do you think they have respected the other custom and tradition of other nationalities.

Asa naman ang religious freedom nila ani? Ug mao ni custom sa mga Muslims ug tradition unya ibawal nila murag gikuhaan napud sila ug religious freedom nga ipakita ilang pagka Muslim. Di ba daghan Muslim sa Europe dapat ipaglaban ni nila.

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Raquelproud boholana

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Re: Muslim Face Veil Banned in Belgium
« Reply #32 on: May 04, 2010, 05:49:30 AM »
I respect freedom and tradition Day Raquel, If you are in your own Country and place. But, if you are not, then respect also the tradition and custom of your host Country. In Saudi Arabia for example, do you think they have respected the other custom and tradition of other nationalities.

Sakto ka Manong Lindy naa kay point. Tinuod diay no kay sa Saudi jud bitaw bawal man kono didto gani ang novenahan ug rosaryuhan so deserving pud diay ni sila nga di hatagan ug freedom sa ilang host country like sa Belgium.
Mapreso ba ta sa Saudi ug mag short tag mobo molakaw sa public places? Unsa kaha no ug adto jud sa ilang mosque mosuroy patay lungguan siguro tag wa nay daghan sulti.

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Re: Muslim Face Veil Banned in Belgium
« Reply #33 on: May 04, 2010, 06:10:45 AM »
Sakto ka Manong Lindy naa kay point. Tinuod diay no kay sa Saudi jud bitaw bawal man kono didto gani ang novenahan ug rosaryuhan so deserving pud diay ni sila nga di hatagan ug freedom sa ilang host country like sa Belgium.
Mapreso ba ta sa Saudi ug mag short tag mobo molakaw sa public places? Unsa kaha no ug adto jud sa ilang mosque mosuroy patay lungguan siguro tag wa nay daghan sulti.

bwahahahhhaha!

ajaw na laman patuga Kel kay sus maka uli jud tag Merika nga usa nalang ang legs! ahahahahhahhahah! (ligid2x) ;D

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Re: Muslim Face Veil Banned in Belgium
« Reply #34 on: May 04, 2010, 06:20:43 AM »
Sakto ka Manong Lindy naa kay point. Tinuod diay no kay sa Saudi jud bitaw bawal man kono didto gani ang novenahan ug rosaryuhan so deserving pud diay ni sila nga di hatagan ug freedom sa ilang host country like sa Belgium.
Mapreso ba ta sa Saudi ug mag short tag mobo molakaw sa public places? Unsa kaha no ug adto jud sa ilang mosque mosuroy patay lungguan siguro tag wa nay daghan sulti.

Basin sa ilaha, normal kini. Pero sa kadaghanan siguro dili.

Take this for example

http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/2891166/British-couple-are-jailed-in-Dubai-for-kissing-in-public.html

British Couple jailed in Dubai for kissing in public.


Pagka OA.  IF this situation was reversed unya kining mga kagwanga i-jail for something very stupid in other western societies..kadako kaha sa ilang protesta no..pero as usual...sige lang gilugaran ning mga yati-a ni.


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lindy

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Re: Muslim Face Veil Banned in Belgium
« Reply #35 on: May 04, 2010, 09:37:26 AM »
Ako dili man supak kon unsay inyong custom/tradition/relegion or whatever.whocares, di ba! do it @ home. nganong imo man iamong ang uban. naa bitaw diri sa Canada RCMP nag suot ug TURBAN, paskang maota na nuon tan-awon.nawala na nuon ang tinuod nga uniform. Unya mangreklamo dayon ug human rights.ambot lang kon akoy minister dili nako ni tugotan.mao bitaw nang mga langyaw namuyo sa ato nga daghan ug mga reklamo nga mao niy mga batasan natong mga Pilipino or Boholano.Usa raman akong tubag ana.kon wa mo kasabot sa among batasan ug kinaiya then panglayas mo.Ensakto tong gisulti sa Prime Minister sa Autralia.murag na post man gani tingali to dinhi sa TB.

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alycxs

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Re: Muslim Face Veil Banned in Belgium
« Reply #36 on: May 04, 2010, 09:49:16 AM »
mao bitaw nang mga langyaw namuyo sa ato nga daghan ug mga reklamo nga mao niy mga batasan natong mga Pilipino or Boholano.Usa raman akong tubag ana.kon wa mo kasabot sa among batasan ug kinaiya then panglayas mo.Ensakto tong gisulti sa Prime Minister sa Autralia.murag na post man gani tingali to dinhi sa TB.

Diha bitaw ko gikasakay sa Ocean Jet pag December, ga sige satsat about the bad attitudes of the "natives"...hmmm...gihilasan ko naminaw, lami ra ihulog sa dagat a. Nakasala sad ko sa akong utok, ga huna2 ko, kung ingana ka ka dato Dodong, wala unta ka nag ocean jet, naa unta ka private boat.

Unya nilabay mi duol sa Cabilao...sayanga ato oi, daghan ra ba iho didto, malipay siguro to ug akong lawgan ug French A$$hole...heheheheh !

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Re: Muslim Face Veil Banned in Belgium
« Reply #37 on: May 04, 2010, 09:56:56 AM »
Dili jud diay ni part sa ilang religion so unsa man intawoy tig antus ug suot ani ug ok raman diay nga wa ni sila ani. Dapat ipakita ang beauty with confidence hehehe. Init man dagway pud ning segi ug tabon oi. Hilig man ning muslim mang make up so sayang ilang make up di ipakita labi na tong murag nagtabon ug sako nga wa jud nay makita  unya ilang buhok pud di makita.

wa sila mag-antos, that's why they chose it.  mora ra nig overcoat kun sa western clothes pa, to be worn only when one goes out.  and this is light and airy.  it protects them from the heat and dust.  strangely, with this cover, mas bugnaw hinoon kay sa mag-sleeveless nga maigo directly sa adlaw.  i should know.  i own a real abaya, which i acquired for curiosity's sake.  

ang una nakong tuyo for acquiring an abaya kay para panghadlok sa mga bata sa mga silingan sa subdivision sa pinas nga mag-siyagit-siyagit sa dalan at past 11 pm.  imagine unsay ilang bation kun kalit lang nga naay mosutoy nga morag lungon sa tungang gabii.  but i changed my mind kay maluthang unya ko sa ilang ginikanan labi na ug naay bata nga mahug sa kanal ug dinagan.  

but i'm glad i have this abaya.  i have shed my bias against it (which was there, i must admit, because of the initial complaints of western women who judge their muslim sisters by their cover).  

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Re: Muslim Face Veil Banned in Belgium
« Reply #38 on: May 04, 2010, 09:58:33 AM »
abaya diay tawag ana! nga ug sa atong mga suban-on pa (daghan sa amoa) PATADJONG?   ;D  i learned something...

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Re: Muslim Face Veil Banned in Belgium
« Reply #39 on: May 04, 2010, 10:13:34 AM »
Diha bitaw ko gikasakay sa Ocean Jet pag December, ga sige satsat about the bad attitudes of the "natives"...hmmm...gihilasan ko naminaw, lami ra ihulog sa dagat a. Nakasala sad ko sa akong utok, ga huna2 ko, kung ingana ka ka dato Dodong, wala unta ka nag ocean jet, naa unta ka private boat.

Unya nilabay mi duol sa Cabilao...sayanga ato oi, daghan ra ba iho didto, malipay siguro to ug akong lawgan ug French A$$hole...heheheheh !

Sayang! Would have been quite a sight, a snooty Frenchman nga gipistahan sa mga ihoy!

Maajo unta kon nakuha nimo ang pangalan, Alz, kay atong ipa-declare sa Provincial Board nga persona non grata sa Bohol, he he... ;D

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