Author Topic: Bishop Wants Death Penalty Revived in the Philippines  (Read 16218 times)

islander

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Re: Bishop Wants Death Penalty Revived in the Philippines
« Reply #40 on: September 17, 2010, 05:39:18 PM »
Church positions

The three largest Christian denominations in the United States are split on the issue of capital punishment. The Roman Catholic Church opposes it in virtually all cases; the Southern Baptist Convention approves of it in certain cases; the United Methodist Church opposes it in all cases.

Here are the official position statements:

Roman Catholic:

2267. Assuming that the guilty party's identity and responsibility have been fully determined, the traditional teaching of the Church does not exclude recourse to the death penalty, if this is the only possible way of effectively defending human lives against the unjust aggressor.

If, however, non-lethal means are sufficient to defend and protect people's safety from the aggressor, authority will limit itself to such means, as these are more in keeping with the concrete conditions of the common good and more in conformity with the dignity of the human person.

Today, in fact, as a consequence of the possibilities which the state has for effectively preventing crime, by rendering one who has committed an offense incapable of doing harm-without definitively taking away from him the possibility of redeeming himself-the cases in which the execution of the offender is an absolute necessity "are very rare, if not practically non-existent."  (From Catechism of the Catholic Church, second edition, copyright © 1997, United States Catholic Conference, Inc., http://www.usccb.org/catechism/text/pt3sect2chpt2art5.htm)

Southern Baptist:

[A resolution adopted at the June, 2000 convention of The Southern Baptist Convention] affirms the use of capital punishment "by civil magistrates as a legitimate form of punishment for those guilty of murder or treasonous acts that result in death." The death penalty should be used only when there is "clear and overwhelming evidence of guilt," the proposal says. It also calls for "vigilance, justice and equity in the criminal justice system," with capital punishment "applied as justly and as fairly as possible without undue delay, without reference to the race, class or status of the guilty." (From  http://www.bpnews.net/bpnews.asp?Id=6002)

United Methodist:

Basic Freedoms and Human Rights

We hold governments responsible for the protection of the rights of the people to free and fair elections and to the freedoms of speech, religion, assembly, communications media, and petition for redress of grievances without fear of reprisal; to the right to privacy; and to the guarantee of the rights to adequate food, clothing, shelter, education, and health care. The form and the leaders of all governments should be determined by exercise of the right to vote guaranteed to all adult citizens. We also strongly reject domestic surveillance and intimidation of political opponents by governments in power and all other misuses of elective or appointive offices. The use of detention and imprisonment for the harassment and elimination of political opponents or other dissidents violates fundamental human rights. Furthermore, the mistreatment or torture of persons by governments for any purpose violates Christian teaching and must be condemned and/or opposed by Christians and churches wherever and whenever it occurs. For the same reason, we oppose capital punishment and urge its elimination from all criminal codes. (From The Book of Discipline of The United Methodist Church--2000, ¶164A. Copyright 2000 by The United Methodist Publishing House, http://www.umc.org/abouttheumc/policy/political/a-basicfreedoms.htm)

http://www.twopaths.com/faq_CapitalPunishment.htm



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islander

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Re: Bishop Wants Death Penalty Revived in the Philippines
« Reply #41 on: September 17, 2010, 05:54:33 PM »
Islander, just a note to say that I like your well thought out posts.

There is also another issue in addition to the false convictions: giving the State too much power over the individual is very dangerous when the people in charge become megalomaniacs.  Then they can legally, through machinations, execute individuals that they find troublesome.

thanks, ben. 

yes, and a glaring example of false convictions vis-a-vis megalomania:  hitler and the holocaust.  the genocide was state-sanctioned by the third reich; the nazis had all the reasons in the world for condemning to death a people who were not of the aryan race.  had they won the war, history would have been written differently, at the world's peril.



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islander

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Re: Bishop Wants Death Penalty Revived in the Philippines
« Reply #42 on: September 17, 2010, 09:54:00 PM »
Against the Death Penalty: Christian Stance in a Secular World

Two general rules follow from respect for persons.  First, we cannot treat people as mere instruments to our survival, success or fulfillment.  Second, we must value in each individual his or her distinctively human capacity for moral agency—the ability to assess situations rationally, to make judgments about what is right and wrong, and to act according to those judgments.

***

...Moral agency, like any capacity, may be underdeveloped and poorly used; but when people act immorally, they are still moral agents in the sense intended here. Hence, even a wicked criminal deserves this fundamental respect.

***

Death is not a punishment to which reflective moral response is possible. A moral response to the certainty of death at sunrise is possible. But waiting to be executed is not the criminal’s punishment; death is.

***

Death terminates the possibility of moral reform. Therefore, insofar as the state is concerned, death terminates conscious life and cannot be considered a punishment prompting the offender to respond as a moral agent.  The death penalty therefore lacks an essential ingredient of just punishment.

***
Killing is not a coherent way for the community to solicit moral responses from those who have offended it. And since killing criminals is not a coherent way to solicit a moral response, it fails to hold offenders responsible. Thus, even though death is proportionate to death, killing killers violates the principle that justifies punishment in the first place.

http://www.religion-online.org
 

a good read, bai hubag.  thanks.

the points that stand out:

1.  we cannot treat people as mere instruments to our survival, success or fulfillment.

2.  death penalty lacks the essential ingredient of just punishment, which is moral reform.  because death terminates conscious life, it therefore terminates the possibility of moral reform.

3.  even if death deserves death, killing killers violates the principle that justifies punishment in the first place.
 


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magbalantay

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Re: Bishop Wants Death Penalty Revived in the Philippines
« Reply #43 on: September 19, 2010, 04:30:20 AM »

  Mau lagi na, killing killers is a crime in itself. Pro unsaon man pud tong napatay oi? Dili ba diay na crime nga nakapatay man siya? Where can the murdered person seek justice? Lisod ug mag base lang pud ta sa biblya. FAET.....FAET! >:(

    Hinaut nga kining ningsupak nga dili ma revive ang death penalty makatilaw. Tanawon nato ilang reaction if in case mahitabo ni sa usa sa ilang minahal nga napatay unja klaro jud ang nagpatay. Kana bitaw pug nga marape injong anak pud! bujag laman! Tanawon nato aber!  ;D ;D ;D    P E A C E! ;D

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islander

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Re: Bishop Wants Death Penalty Revived in the Philippines
« Reply #44 on: September 19, 2010, 10:32:39 AM »
 Mau lagi na, killing killers is a crime in itself. Pro unsaon man pud tong napatay oi? Dili ba diay na crime nga nakapatay man siya? Where can the murdered person seek justice? Lisod ug mag base lang pud ta sa biblya. FAET.....FAET! >:(

    Hinaut nga kining ningsupak nga dili ma revive ang death penalty makatilaw. Tanawon nato ilang reaction if in case mahitabo ni sa usa sa ilang minahal nga napatay unja klaro jud ang nagpatay. Kana bitaw pug nga marape injong anak pud! bujag laman! Tanawon nato aber!  ;D ;D ;D    P E A C E! ;D

salamat kay nanimbako/namujag sad tawon ta, mags. ;D  

wa bayay niingon nga dili crime nang nakapatay.  and the murdered person can seek justice through the justice system.  (kana kun maka-seek pa siya nga murdered na man kaha siya, di wa na siya aning kalibotana.  in which case, ang iyang kaparyentihan o ang state ang mo-seek ug justice.) 

ang justice, kana lang ba diay nga death sentence?  we're talking of punishment here because it is presumed that the wheel of justice is already grinding.  

di tantong lisod ang pag-base sa bibliya kay gi-base man sad sa bibliya ang death penalty sa mga believers ani.  even your own sense of justice now is based on biblical traditions, whether you are conscious of it or not.  

anyways, na hala.  hinaot pod nga kining ning-uyon nga i-revive ang death penalty makatilaw.  tan-awon nato ilang reaction if in case mahitabo nga usa nila ka minahal nakapatay unja klaro jud ang pagpatay.  kana bitaw pod nga mang-rape ilang anak pod!  bujag palayo!  tan-awon nato, aber. ;D

puwera lang intawon nga ang uyon mismo maoy makapatay ug maka-rape.  simbako palayo!
p-e-a-c-e! ;D
    

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Re: Bishop Wants Death Penalty Revived in the Philippines
« Reply #46 on: September 20, 2010, 02:02:00 AM »
???

  I, for one, uyon jud ko nga ma revive ang death penalty. Simbako lang nga mahitabo ni sa usa nakong minahal sa buhay, naks ha! ako mismo ang magpabitay sa criminal! kanang mga pushers bitaw pud, bitayon jud sila! kanang nang rape...hala bitay!!!! ;D ;D ;D
wa silai katungod mabuhi oi! THEY'RE A MANACE TO SOCIETY ! ; 8)

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Re: Bishop Wants Death Penalty Revived in the Philippines
« Reply #47 on: September 20, 2010, 02:23:12 AM »
  I, for one, uyon jud ko nga ma revive ang death penalty. Simbako lang nga mahitabo ni sa usa nakong minahal sa buhay, naks ha! ako mismo ang magpabitay sa criminal! kanang mga pushers bitaw pud, bitayon jud sila! kanang nang rape...hala bitay!!!! ;D ;D ;D
wa silai katungod mabuhi oi! THEY'RE A MANACE TO SOCIETY ! ; 8)

I agree with this completely. For those who have violated the laws and have taken human life/lives, should be judged accordingly. I for one am not sympathetic for serial rapists, serial killers who have capitalized on the judicial system's forfeiture of capital punishment. Time and time again have serial rapists, serial killers pleaded insanity for their crimes, while at the same time benefited the resources of tax payer money. They retain their lives while those whom they have silenced are dead, whose families are devastated.

 

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Re: Bishop Wants Death Penalty Revived in the Philippines
« Reply #48 on: September 20, 2010, 06:37:33 AM »
I agree with this completely. For those who have violated the laws and have taken human life/lives, should be judged accordingly. I for one am not sympathetic for serial rapists, serial killers who have capitalized on the judicial system's forfeiture of capital punishment. Time and time again have serial rapists, serial killers pleaded insanity for their crimes, while at the same time benefited the resources of tax payer money. They retain their lives while those whom they have silenced are dead, whose families are devastated.

 

    thanks bai Lorenz. totally agree jud! ;D ;D ;D

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Re: Bishop Wants Death Penalty Revived in the Philippines
« Reply #49 on: September 20, 2010, 11:53:27 AM »
 I, for one, uyon jud ko nga ma revive ang death penalty. Simbako lang nga mahitabo ni sa usa nakong minahal sa buhay, naks ha! ako mismo ang magpabitay sa criminal! kanang mga pushers bitaw pud, bitayon jud sila! kanang nang rape...hala bitay!!!! ;D ;D ;D
wa silai katungod mabuhi oi! THEY'RE A MANACE TO SOCIETY ! ; 8)

congratulations!  tagsa ray makaako pagpabitay ug minahal nga criminal.  naa bitaw koy iglesia ni cristo nga amigo, siya kuno mismo ang mopatay kun bay0t iyang anak kay criminal man para nila ang bay0t, punishable by death, pareha rag pushers ug rapists, nga mga menace to society kuno.  

buot ipasabot, kandaiya ra tag opinion kun kinsay angay mabuhi ug mamatay nga wa sa oras, apil na ani nga mo-decide ang uyon sa death penalty ug ang murderers mismo nga ni-decide pod nga angay patyon ang ilang victims.  sa ato pa, ang mga uyon sa death penalty ug ang mga murderers ug uban pang criminals way kalainan. :-X  
  

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Re: Bishop Wants Death Penalty Revived in the Philippines
« Reply #50 on: September 20, 2010, 12:01:04 PM »
I agree with this completely. For those who have violated the laws and have taken human life/lives, should be judged accordingly. I for one am not sympathetic for serial rapists, serial killers who have capitalized on the judicial system's forfeiture of capital punishment. Time and time again have serial rapists, serial killers pleaded insanity for their crimes, while at the same time benefited the resources of tax payer money. They retain their lives while those whom they have silenced are dead, whose families are devastated.
 

i disagree completely.  for me, agreeing is like taking upon myself the power of life and death.  i have no sympathy for serial rapists and killers and i hold all the sympathy for their victims, but if i favor having these criminals killed, as sanctioned by the state, what's the point of my sympathy for their victims when these sinful dregs are saved from conscious punishment by death?

if humanity truly believed in an eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth, matod pa sa mga katiguwangan, buta ug pangag na tang tanan. 


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Re: Bishop Wants Death Penalty Revived in the Philippines
« Reply #51 on: September 20, 2010, 12:05:20 PM »
And that is fine, Isles, we cannot expect to stand shoulder to shoulder on every issue. Tho I do not agree with you and your reasoning, I respect your point.


 :)

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islander

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Re: Bishop Wants Death Penalty Revived in the Philippines
« Reply #52 on: September 20, 2010, 03:04:08 PM »
And that is fine, Isles, we cannot expect to stand shoulder to shoulder on every issue. Tho I do not agree with you and your reasoning, I respect your point.
 :)

just as i respect your point, lorenz.  i'm even glad that we do not stand shoulder to shoulder on every issue.  it affords us a chance for discussions, with this forum as our venue.  opposing stands give us the chance to distill ideas for our mutual benefit.  it's like muddying the waters, then giving the dregs time settle at the bottom so we can have pure filtered waters on top.  refreshing! :D  

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Re: Bishop Wants Death Penalty Revived in the Philippines
« Reply #53 on: September 20, 2010, 07:02:44 PM »
it's like muddying the waters

Attagirl!  8)

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Re: Bishop Wants Death Penalty Revived in the Philippines
« Reply #54 on: September 20, 2010, 10:42:34 PM »
congratulations!  tagsa ray makaako pagpabitay ug minahal nga criminal.  naa bitaw koy iglesia ni cristo nga amigo, siya kuno mismo ang mopatay kun bay0t iyang anak kay criminal man para nila ang bay0t, punishable by death, pareha rag pushers ug rapists, nga mga menace to society kuno.  

buot ipasabot, kandaiya ra tag opinion kun kinsay angay mabuhi ug mamatay nga wa sa oras, apil na ani nga mo-decide ang uyon sa death penalty ug ang murderers mismo nga ni-decide pod nga angay patyon ang ilang victims.  sa ato pa, ang mga uyon sa death penalty ug ang mga murderers ug uban pang criminals way kalainan. :-X  
  

       Ms. Isle,  what I mean is one of my love ones is being raped or murdered and I know who did it, definitely ako ang magpabitay nya. If sa imong kabahin, gi rape imong anak or gi murder imong bana and you know the murderer, what will u do?

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Re: Bishop Wants Death Penalty Revived in the Philippines
« Reply #55 on: September 20, 2010, 11:05:49 PM »
       Ms. Isle,  what I mean is one of my love ones is being raped or murdered and I know who did it, definitely ako ang magpabitay nya. If sa imong kabahin, gi rape imong anak or gi murder imong bana and you know the murderer, what will u do?

to your question, my answer is i will naturally file a case, mags.  it's the most i could do.  i am not the judge.  i will hope though for a conviction and a life sentence without parole for the perpetrator.

as to what you mean, you're talking only about your loved ones as victims, that's why you want the death penalty.  my question was what about if your loved ones were the perpetrators?  would you still go for the death penalty?

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Re: Bishop Wants Death Penalty Revived in the Philippines
« Reply #56 on: September 21, 2010, 01:16:59 AM »
to your question, my answer is i will naturally file a case, mags.  it's the most i could do.  i am not the judge.  i will hope though for a conviction and a life sentence without parole for the perpetrator.

as to what you mean, you're talking only about your loved ones as victims, that's why you want the death penalty.  my question was what about if your loved ones were the perpetrators?  would you still go for the death penalty?

   yes, Ms. Isle, I will. Sakit man but I have to. Let justice reign no matter what it takes. ;D

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Re: Bishop Wants Death Penalty Revived in the Philippines
« Reply #57 on: September 21, 2010, 01:21:03 AM »
   yes, Ms. Isle, I will. Sakit man but I have to. Let justice reign no matter what it takes. ;D

This is strong. You have strong Principles, Magbalantay. In fact, your answer manifests the supremacy and the infallability of the Law.
No exceptions.

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Re: Bishop Wants Death Penalty Revived in the Philippines
« Reply #58 on: September 21, 2010, 01:55:59 AM »
This is strong. You have strong Principles, Magbalantay. In fact, your answer manifests the supremacy and the infallability of the Law.
No exceptions.
[/quote

 Thanks bai Lorenze. Simbako lang jud if mahitabo ni sa among family. Hopefully wala jud tawn.bujag....bujag  ;D ;D ;D But as what I have said, justice will really prevail. SO BE IT!

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Re: Bishop Wants Death Penalty Revived in the Philippines
« Reply #59 on: September 21, 2010, 12:12:29 PM »
   yes, Ms. Isle, I will. Sakit man but I have to. Let justice reign no matter what it takes. ;D

then please accept my congratulations again, which i earlier tried to convey to you, mags.  heaven forbid though that you or i or anybody else for that matter get to face this kind of tragic situation.  we’re talking hypothetical situations here, anyway, and our answers are just in keeping with our stand on the death penalty.  meanwhile, as you say in one of your posts, simbako lang jud. ;D 

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Re: Bishop Wants Death Penalty Revived in the Philippines
« Reply #60 on: September 21, 2010, 12:18:39 PM »
This is strong. You have strong Principles, Magbalantay. In fact, your answer manifests the supremacy and the infallability of the Law.
No exceptions.

truly strong, whatever your “strong” here means, lorenz.  clearly the word is used as an adjective of principles, and thus does it fall flat.  i daresay it is the person who is strong (or weak) about his principles.  the same cannot be said about principles per se, unless we are referring to anthropic, i.e. human friendly principles, which refer to the physical world as we know it and not to laws of justice that this thread is all about.     

supremacy of the law?  sure, laws of the land should be deemed supreme, no matter how imperfect these are and no matter that one country’s supreme laws need not necessarily be so in another, as in the case of the death penalty. 

infallability?  that word does not exist.  the nearest that there is though is infallibility, which as we may know does not apply to laws made by man.  that’s why we have congress, a very human one, that’s tasked to pass, revise or amend laws.  infallible congress is not.  so are the laws it passes.

if laws were infallible, europe would still be having the divine right of kings, the u.s. would still have slavery, quartering would still be done in scotland ala-braveheart, and non-virgin single women would still be meted with the death penalty according to the mosaic law.

infallibility at its most basic is the “inability to err in teaching revealed truth,” upheld in catholic teachings as based on scriptural and traditional proofs.  man-made laws do not fall in this category.




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magbalantay

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Re: Bishop Wants Death Penalty Revived in the Philippines
« Reply #61 on: September 21, 2010, 10:09:25 PM »
truly strong, whatever your “strong” here means, lorenz.  clearly the word is used as an adjective of principles, and thus does it fall flat.  i daresay it is the person who is strong (or weak) about his principles.  the same cannot be said about principles per se, unless we are referring to anthropic, i.e. human friendly principles, which refer to the physical world as we know it and not to laws of justice that this thread is all about.     

supremacy of the law?  sure, laws of the land should be deemed supreme, no matter how imperfect these are and no matter that one country’s supreme laws need not necessarily be so in another, as in the case of the death penalty. 

infallability?  that word does not exist.  the nearest that there is though is infallibility, which as we may know does not apply to laws made by man.  that’s why we have congress, a very human one, that’s tasked to pass, revise or amend laws.  infallible congress is not.  so are the laws it passes.

if laws were infallible, europe would still be having the divine right of kings, the u.s. would still have slavery, quartering would still be done in scotland ala-braveheart, and non-virgin single women would still be meted with the death penalty according to the mosaic law.

infallibility at its most basic is the “inability to err in teaching revealed truth,” upheld in catholic teachings as based on scriptural and traditional proofs.  man-made laws do not fall in this category.




   P.....H........E.......W..... wa na ko say Ms. Isle!!!! :D ;D :D kujawan man pud ko ani imong explanation :D ;D :D

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Lorenzo

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Re: Bishop Wants Death Penalty Revived in the Philippines
« Reply #62 on: September 21, 2010, 11:46:38 PM »
truly strong, whatever your “strong” here means, lorenz.  clearly the word is used as an adjective of principles, and thus does it fall flat.  i daresay it is the person who is strong (or weak) about his principles.  the same cannot be said about principles per se, unless we are referring to anthropic, i.e. human friendly principles, which refer to the physical world as we know it and not to laws of justice that this thread is all about.    

supremacy of the law?  sure, laws of the land should be deemed supreme, no matter how imperfect these are and no matter that one country’s supreme laws need not necessarily be so in another, as in the case of the death penalty.  

infallability?  that word does not exist.  the nearest that there is though is infallibility, which as we may know does not apply to laws made by man.  that’s why we have congress, a very human one, that’s tasked to pass, revise or amend laws.  infallible congress is not.  so are the laws it passes.

if laws were infallible, europe would still be having the divine right of kings, the u.s. would still have slavery, quartering would still be done in scotland ala-braveheart, and non-virgin single women would still be meted with the death penalty according to the mosaic law.

infallibility at its most basic is the “inability to err in teaching revealed truth,” upheld in catholic teachings as based on scriptural and traditional proofs.  man-made laws do not fall in this category.




I was referring to Magbalantay's answer to your question; which asked him if he would still be a proponent for death penalty if his relatives were killers and subject to lethal punishment. His answer, which literally was:

  yes, Ms. Isle, I will. Sakit man but I have to. Let justice reign no matter what it takes. ;D

His answer is quite idealistic so to say in the sense in that it resembles the political machinations of the Old French Revolutionaries such as Marat and Robbespierre who believed in the Supremacy of the Democratic and Republican Laws of the newly established French Republic. I likened it to that in my mind because the former two did not believe in mercy for those whom violated the citizens of France, and have victimized the unrepresented rights of the citizenry, which he was referring to those members of the Aristocracy and of the Royal Person. The way Magbalantay answered, which did not show partiality to even his own members who were hypothetical criminals in the case, represented the epitome of the idea that the Law is not only Sacred, but almost Infallible when being enforced. (This of course does not consider when a Law is being ammended). The resolution of his will in standing ground to support a Death Penalty was observed, and I admired how he placed the Law Above the notion of partiality and corruption; no exceptions (family, friends, colleagues should be judged equally under the law). My comment was addressed to him in my admiration for his principle.

Yes you are right in the fact that there are two kinds of Laws: 1. Human Law , 2. Divine Law

 :)


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Scarb

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Re: Bishop Wants Death Penalty Revived in the Philippines
« Reply #63 on: September 22, 2010, 12:05:18 AM »
   yes, Ms. Isle, I will. Sakit man but I have to. Let justice reign no matter what it takes. ;D

Whoa mora man ka ni Charles Bronson sa film nya nga self-administered justice ba to?

Hambina ayaw sa imong mga kamot ang Hustisya  ;)

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Re: Bishop Wants Death Penalty Revived in the Philippines
« Reply #64 on: September 22, 2010, 12:28:24 AM »
Whoa mora man ka ni Charles Bronson sa film nya nga self-administered justice ba to?

Hambina ayaw sa imong mga kamot ang Hustisya  ;)

Blue, if you read the conversation, Magbalantay was not saying that he would administer justice, but his answer was in response to Isles' question of: if your relatives/loved ones were convicted and proven guilty of murder, would you still support the death penalty?

Magbalantay, unmoved and showing no partiality to his friends and relatives convicted of murder (mind you this is a hypothetical situation) supports the death penalty.

Not that he was the one administering justice; he would support the Law's administration of justice. Again, the tone of his answer reiterates the Old French Revolutionary notion of the Supremacy of the Law & Justice.

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Scarb

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Re: Bishop Wants Death Penalty Revived in the Philippines
« Reply #65 on: September 22, 2010, 01:38:13 AM »
Blue, if you read the conversation, Magbalantay was not saying that he would administer justice, but his answer was in response to Isles' question of: if your relatives/loved ones were convicted and proven guilty of murder, would you still support the death penalty?

Magbalantay, unmoved and showing no partiality to his friends and relatives convicted of murder
 (mind you this is a hypothetical situation) supports the death penalty.

Not that he was the one administering justice; he would support the Law's administration of justice. Again, the tone of his answer reiterates the Old French Revolutionary notion of the Supremacy of the Law & Justice.

Phew..whoa Bran² have to read the previous posts..i standstill corrected-bow. ;)

Well, to focus the line "self-administered justice" when im talking 'bout Charles Bronson film..he was the one who punished the killer of his family (so far so good as my memory,me dictates ) jehehe

As regards to ds thread we are discussing in here...sorry to disagree  ;) "No to Death Penalty"

and...here are my reason as follows:

-Thou shalt not kill..known as one of the ten commandments...are we allowed to erase one ?-(religious aspect)
-Supremacy of Law & Justice? oh je..doncha know that theres a Supreme of all the supremes,theres one Judge of all the judges?

-It´s very difficult to decide whether somebody should live or die. Judges are not always competent or independent. (sowe)
   So it could happen that innocent people are executed. The death penalty is an irreversible punishment.
      Once carried out it can never be corrected.

-What about Life imprisonement ? It has the same effect.
    They would spend their whole life there so it would be a moral or emotional punishment.
      They would have to suffer from their guilty conscience.
        Sometimes it happens that murderers become religious in this time.
           The modern view is that criminals should improve during their time in prison.
- Life imprisonment is more expensive than executions (as to financial statistic)
    but costs shouldn´t really matter when it comes to issue of life and death.
-  I think that the death penalty is not always fair.
      The kind of punishment is often determined not only by the nature of the crime
          but also by the social and ethnic background,
             the financial means or the political opinion of the defendant.
Friends and relatives of the victims often want to take revenge on the murderer. They probably wish for the death of the culprit.

-  Sometimes people have been imprisoned for ten years and after this time it was found out that they were not guilty.
           It was a mistake.  :(  What if,it was a death penalty? unZaon man kobkobon sa lungon pakabuhion pag-Uzob? awooh..!

And to you my dear Bran²..you learn medicine @ present..am pretty sure for the main purpose to save life or to find ways for a  matter of "prolong ones life", to maintain what GoD has given to mankind "Live on earth" and be ready when the Lord comes.
Ach soo, you are in favor of death penalty? Whatta irony..! tsk³

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Lorenzo

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Re: Bishop Wants Death Penalty Revived in the Philippines
« Reply #66 on: September 22, 2010, 04:55:10 AM »
As always Ms. Blue, I am always enjoying reading your posts (because it has so much material and many points). For me, in general, Life is important especially those who need to be saved or are in medical need. No question on that. However, when it comes to dealing with hard lining criminals (serial rapists, serial killers etc) I have no compassion for that. There is a difference between a patient who comes to the physician for medical aid and is therefore given medical treatment to prolong life. In regards to the convicted murder and serial rapist, they have done the antithesis. They have taken lives, and destroyed lives. There is a significant dichotomy between the two. One is helpless and comes to the physician and surrenders their care to you to be taken cared of. The other, is the absolute antithesis, the latter is the one that has silenced a life, sexually molested a human life and taken advantage of those who could not defend themselves.


That said, I respect your view, Ms. Blue. (look it even rhymed!)  :)

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Re: Bishop Wants Death Penalty Revived in the Philippines
« Reply #67 on: September 22, 2010, 05:17:30 AM »
 Let the criminals be rotten in jail  ;) jeje


 To kill a Killer doesnt make a scrap of difference. (ako ra pod na 1 cents gud) hee³

 

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Re: Bishop Wants Death Penalty Revived in the Philippines
« Reply #68 on: September 22, 2010, 05:44:11 AM »
Let the criminals be rotten in jail  ;) jeje


 To kill a Killer doesnt make a scrap of difference. (ako ra pod na 1 cents gud) hee³

 

ha ha ha, i love that saying. ;)

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magbalantay

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Re: Bishop Wants Death Penalty Revived in the Philippines
« Reply #69 on: September 22, 2010, 06:45:43 AM »
    Scarb, korek ka sa pag quote sa bible....THOU SHALT NOT KILL! Mau nga against ka sa death penalty. Nah, unsaon man ang napatay?  Unsa man ang justice ilang makuha? Pra makakuha tawn ang victim ug justice, dapat ba nga ang nakapaty buhion, so prisohon lang? Luoya pud tong namatay! Criminals are liabilities to society you know that, which in most cases sulod-gawas nang uban sa prisohan, so, when would this end?  ;D ;D ;D

     If convicted sila ug life sentence, parehas ra na sa death penalty 'cause it's like also killing the criminals little by little. Kas-ahon na lang pra maminusan na sila sa prisohan. naghuot lang na sila diha ;D ;D

    

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Re: Bishop Wants Death Penalty Revived in the Philippines
« Reply #70 on: September 22, 2010, 07:35:48 AM »
@Mags para nako maau pa madugtä sila sa prisohan kysa hinanaling kamatayon or silot thru lethal injection.

Life imprisonment ,the same effect ra lagi sa death penalty. ;)



You have ur points too- salute..!


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Re: Bishop Wants Death Penalty Revived in the Philippines
« Reply #71 on: September 22, 2010, 09:26:48 AM »
@Mags para nako maau pa madugtä sila sa prisohan kysa hinanaling kamatayon or silot thru lethal injection.

Life imprisonment ,the same effect ra lagi sa death penalty. ;)



You have ur points too- salute..!


      ;D ;D ;D lain pud diay ka manimaus ha? hinay-hinay? murag magpinitensya? ;D ;D ;D

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Re: Bishop Wants Death Penalty Revived in the Philippines
« Reply #72 on: September 22, 2010, 12:10:21 PM »
His answer is quite idealistic so to say in the sense in that it resembles the political machinations of the Old French Revolutionaries such as Marat and Robbespierre who believed in the Supremacy of the Democratic and Republican Laws of the newly established French Republic. I likened it to that in my mind because the former two did not believe in mercy for those whom violated the citizens of France, and have victimized the unrepresented rights of the citizenry, which he was referring to those members of the Aristocracy and of the Royal Person.
 :)

jean paul marat and maximillien robespierre (and georges danton) were the three most important men of the french revolution who unleased the reign of terror.

how principled were marat and robespierre then?
  
was it idealism or bloodthirstiness that led marat to attack just about anyone with influence and for robespierre who, after doing away with royalty and aristocracy, went on to execute anyone at the mere suspicion of being counter-revolutionaries, without extensive trials?

i believe they were radicals rather than men of principles.
  
“Marat's radical denunciations of counter-revolutionaries supported much of the violence that occurred during the wartime phases of the French Revolution.”
 
if marat were principled, his murderer charlotte corday (guillotined on 17 July 1793 for the murder) must also be just as principled.  she testified during her four-day trial that she “…killed one man to save 100,000”.

historians note that as many as 40,000 accused prisoners may have been summarily executed (at the guillotine) without trial or died awaiting trial under the committee of public safety controlled by robespierre.

robespierre “instigated the Terror and the deaths of his peers as a measure of ensuring a Republic of Virtue; but his ideals went beyond the needs and wants of the people of France.  He became a threat to what he had wanted to ensure and the result was his downfall.”

robespierre is summed up as a “bright young theorist but out of his depth in the matter of experience”.

sometimes, extreme idealism blinds such that it may lead to just plain extremism.

i dare not be idealistic about the death penalty.
 ;D

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Re: Bishop Wants Death Penalty Revived in the Philippines
« Reply #73 on: September 22, 2010, 01:36:13 PM »
The way Magbalantay answered, which did not show partiality to even his own members who were hypothetical criminals in the case, represented the epitome of the idea that the Law is not only Sacred, but almost Infallible when being enforced. (This of course does not consider when a Law is being ammended).
 :)

what you mean then is that the law cannot be broken, and thus it’s almost infallible, though not quite infallible.  (this reminds me of police inspector javert in les miserables who is too obsessed with ‘the law’.)

there's the letter of the law.  but then, there's also the spirit of the law.
 ;D





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Re: Bishop Wants Death Penalty Revived in the Philippines
« Reply #74 on: September 22, 2010, 01:47:23 PM »
Hambina ayaw sa imong mga kamot ang Hustisya  ;)

Hinunoa, gamita ang imong mga kamot paghinol sa Katahom...  

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Re: Bishop Wants Death Penalty Revived in the Philippines
« Reply #75 on: September 22, 2010, 01:50:54 PM »
Whoa mora man ka ni Charles Bronson sa film nya nga self-administered justice ba to?

Gidili ang self-administered justice. Ang gitugot mao ang self-administered satisfaction.  ;D

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Re: Bishop Wants Death Penalty Revived in the Philippines
« Reply #76 on: September 22, 2010, 01:56:48 PM »
The resolution of his will in standing ground to support a Death Penalty was observed, and I admired how he placed the Law Above the notion of partiality and corruption; no exceptions (family, friends, colleagues should be judged equally under the law).

an admiration that is well-placed, i believe.  i hope you will also admire those who are not in favor of the death penalty but who nevertheless will have their own loved ones as perpetrators of crime (heaven forbid!) imprisoned for life, no exceptions.  it’s the same stand on one’s principles of meting out punishment for grave crimes even if the manner on which such principles rest may differ.
 ;D


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Re: Bishop Wants Death Penalty Revived in the Philippines
« Reply #77 on: September 22, 2010, 02:16:59 PM »
My comment was addressed to him in my admiration for his principle.
 :)

and i hope you didn’t mind that i commented on your admiration for his principle.  i take it that your piece isn’t private (otherwise, it would have been conveyed through pm) and it's for everyone to comment on as well, including me.

now let me thank you for the chance to get through this whole maze.
 :D



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Re: Bishop Wants Death Penalty Revived in the Philippines
« Reply #78 on: September 23, 2010, 01:59:26 AM »
an admiration that is well-placed, i believe.  i hope you will also admire those who are not in favor of the death penalty but who nevertheless will have their own loved ones as perpetrators of crime (heaven forbid!) imprisoned for life, no exceptions.  it’s the same stand on one’s principles of meting out punishment for grave crimes even if the manner on which such principles rest may differ.
 ;D


Of course, standing ground and accepting the dispensation of justice (life imprisonment or death penalty) is something to be admired. A man of principle is a man to be admired, imo.



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Re: Bishop Wants Death Penalty Revived in the Philippines
« Reply #79 on: September 23, 2010, 02:01:02 AM »
and i hope you didn’t mind that i commented on your admiration for his principle.  i take it that your piece isn’t private (otherwise, it would have been conveyed through pm) and it's for everyone to comment on as well, including me.

now let me thank you for the chance to get through this whole maze.
 :D



Yes my dear Isles, it was a public statement addressed to Magbalantay. Of course, don't you know that I enjoy my interaction with you? You're an amazing intellectual, tho i may not agree with some of your points, i am titillated in my discussions with you. Objective/subjective reasoning & thought always manifests.


 ;)

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