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Re: The Bad Origin of Christmas: Truth Revealed
« Reply #80 on: January 04, 2009, 08:32:03 PM »
Im sorry, its a proven fact that the definition of time only became universal after the death of Christ which is Anno Domini...  and please, no one recorded time during the big bang.. the scientists in Switzerland failed on their research.  This was in 2008 if you remember. and their experiment was not to measure how old the earth is, it was to discover how the earth was formed and how life began.

Astronomy? the revolution of the earth around the sun? who said that there is 24 hours a day, 365 days a year? Human beings, we created time.
how do you define fiction? something that is created, not discovered and hence time is not exact and it not a science.
Im not arguing on equivalency.  Time is created by man, not by nature. period. The carbon measurements used by anthropologist to measure how old an artifact is , is not accurate, and is only basing on approximation.   and theses measurements again are made by man, not by God.

My main argument is that the discussion about time and its accuracy is useless since at first we have different time measurements compared to the time measurements during that time.

Whether or not we celebrate Christmas on May because maybe Christ was born in May, the main point is that, Christmas does not even have a Christian origin as the main proposition states.

Im a Christian and I dont push my religion on other people.  I am at least happy that the spirit of Christmas unites the rest of the world Christian or not in a common celebration of love and giving.

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Re: The Bad Origin of Christmas: Truth Revealed
« Reply #81 on: January 04, 2009, 08:35:52 PM »
The Origin Of Christmas

      Christmas is a holiday shared and celebrated by many religions.

      It is a day that has an effect on the entire world.

      To many people, it is a favorite time of the year involving gift giving, parties and feasting. Christmas is a holiday that unifies almost all of professing Christendom.

      The spirit of Christmas causes people to decorate their homes and churches, cut down trees and bring them into their homes, decking them with silver and gold.

      In the light of that tree, families make merry and give gifts one to another.

      When the sun goes down on December 24th, and darkness covers the land, families and churches prepare for participation in customs such as burning the yule log, singing around the decorated tree, kissing under the mistletoe and holly, and attending a late night service or midnight mass.

      What is the meaning of Christmas? Where did the customs and traditions originate?

      You, as a Christian, would want to worship the Lord in Spirit and in truth, discerning good from evil.

      The truth is that all of the customs of Christmas pre-date the birth of Jesus Christ, and a study of this would reveal that
      Christmas in our day is a collection of traditions and practices taken from many cultures and nations.

      The date of December 25th comes from Rome and was a celebration of the Italic god, Saturn, and the rebirth of the sun god.

      This was done long before the birth of Jesus.

      It was noted by the pre-Christian Romans and other pagans, that daylight began to increase after December 22nd, when they assumed that the sun god died.

      These ancients believed that the sun god rose from the dead three days later as the new-born and venerable sun.

      Thus, they figured that to be the reason for increasing daylight.

      This was a cause for much wild excitement and celebration. Gift giving and merriment filled the temples of ancient Rome, as sacred priests of Saturn, called dendrophori, carried wreaths of evergreen boughs in procession.

      In Germany, the evergreen tree was used in worship and celebration of the yule god, also in observance of the resurrected sun god.

      The evergreen tree was a symbol of the essence of life and was regarded as a phallic symbol in fertility worship.

      Witches and other pagans regarded the red holly as a symbol of the menstrual blood of the queen of heaven, also known as Diana.

      The holly wood was used by witches to make wands.

      The white berries of mistletoe were believed by pagans to represent droplets of the semen of the sun god.

      Both holly and mistletoe were hung in doorways of temples and homes to invoke powers of fertility in those who stood beneath and kissed, causing the spirits of the god and goddess to enter them.

      These customs transcended the borders of Rome and Germany to the far reaches of the known world.

      The question now arises: How did all of these customs find their way into contemporary Christianity, ranging from Catholicism to Protestantism to fundamentalist churches?

      The word "Christmas"itself reveals who married paganism to Christianity.

      The word "Christmas" is a combination of the words "Christ" and "Mass.

      The word "Mass" means death and was coined originally by the Roman Catholic Church, and belongs exclusively to the church of Rome.

      The ritual of the Mass involves the death of Christ, and the distribution of the "Host", a word taken from the Latin word "hostiall" meaning victim!

      In short, Christmas is strictly a Roman Catholic word.

      A simple study of the tactics of the Romish Church reveals that in every case, the church absorbed the customs, traditions and general paganism of every tribe, culture and nation in their efforts to increase the number of people under their control.

      In short, the Romish church told all of these pagan cultures, "Bring your gods, goddesses, rituals and rites, and we will assign Christian sounding titles and names to them.

      When Martin Luther started the reformation on October 31st, 1517, and other reformers followed his lead, all of them took with them the paganism that was so firmly imbedded in Rome.

      These reformers left Christmas intact.

      In England, as the authorized Bible became available to the common people by the decree of King James the II in 1611, people began to discover the pagan roots of Christmas, which are clearly revealed in Scripture.

      The Puritans in England, and later in Massachusetts Colony, outlawed this holiday as witchcraft.

      Near the end of the nineteenth century, when other Bible versions began to appear, there was a revival of the celebration of Christmas.

      We are now seeing ever-increasing celebrating of Christmas or Yule, its true name, as we draw closer to the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ!

      In both witchcraft circles and contemporary Christian churches, the same things are going on.



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Re: The Bad Origin of Christmas: Truth Revealed
« Reply #82 on: January 04, 2009, 08:51:15 PM »
thank you for the information ayessa, for more info there was a book i read before that explains not just christmas but all the traditions, the Babylon Mystery Religion by Ralph Woodrow
I am not the center of my life but knowing the plan of GOD for me is....
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Re: The Bad Origin of Christmas: Truth Revealed
« Reply #83 on: January 04, 2009, 09:45:40 PM »
The birth of Christ is true and good.
His birth is central to Christian faith.
Christmas is part expression of this faith.
Adopting cultures to express this faith is not bad.
Some Christmas symbols are partly adoptations of an existing culture.
Christ is the true meaning behind Christmas.
Christ birth is not diminished with culture used in order to express deeply its meaning.
Christmas is good.
Artificial Intelligence is nothing in comparison to Natural Stupidity.

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Re: The Bad Origin of Christmas: Truth Revealed
« Reply #84 on: January 05, 2009, 12:37:09 AM »
akong question to all of you...

nganong mo feel raman mo ug christmas on december? honest i find it BULL you know why? ug christian gani mo you always carry it in your heart all year round. why only express it in december? isnt it ironic? (not a song ha)

speaking of faith, kay wa man jud ta kabalo kanus-a sha natawo, why you celebrate it on december? is it because somebody told you so? is that faith? i dont think so. it is hypocrisy to me...sorry im just a straight forward.

hmmmm...
The best sermons are lived not preached.http://www.facebook.com/daBinsi

ayessa

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Re: The Bad Origin of Christmas: Truth Revealed
« Reply #85 on: January 05, 2009, 12:45:29 AM »
Date is not the question.  Of course sensitive ang mga tawo on Christmas date because they were made to believe that Christ was born on December 25.  Pero gani, paganistic ang origin sa celebration of Christmas on December 25.  Gihaum ni siya sa mga romans nga na converted to Christianity later on.

Tinood dili issue ang date pero kinahanglan nga naa tay common nga petsa kung when ta mag celebrate para naay unity ang mga tawo. Imagine, ang pasko nato mayo and sa mga amerikano ,hunyo? pinaagi sa common nga petsa, ang tibook kalibutan naay common day of celebrating christmas.

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Re: The Bad Origin of Christmas: Truth Revealed
« Reply #86 on: January 05, 2009, 01:28:41 AM »
i celebrate it all year round...

tinuod it is hard to change kay ning gamut na na sa atong DNA.

but  some of you here in TB must have  observed that nga i sent gifts or cards all year round,  kay as i have said, my christmas is not only a december....


ayessa

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Re: The Bad Origin of Christmas: Truth Revealed
« Reply #87 on: January 05, 2009, 01:41:37 AM »
wow sweet.. so magsige nalang kog panaygon nimo everyday ha?

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Re: The Bad Origin of Christmas: Truth Revealed
« Reply #88 on: January 05, 2009, 05:45:29 AM »

hahahha
duet tang duha! hahahha

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Re: The Bad Origin of Christmas: Truth Revealed
« Reply #89 on: January 05, 2009, 06:49:22 AM »

Direct evidence for a cosmic origin in a big bang comes from three observations. The first, and most direct, is that the Universe is still expanding today. The second is the existence of a pervasive heat radiation that is neatly explained as the fading afterglow of the primeval fire that accompanied the big bang. The third strand of evidence is the relative abundances of the chemical elements, which can be correctly accounted for in terms of nuclear processes in the hot dense phase that followed the big bang.

But what caused the big bang to happen? Where is the centre of the explosion? Where is the edge of the Universe? Why didn't the big bang turn into a black hole? To understand the correct picture, it is first necessary to have a clear idea of what the expansion of the Universe entails. Contrary to popular belief, it is not the explosive dispersal of galaxies from a common centre into the depths of a limitless void. The best way of viewing it is to imagine the space between the galaxies expanding or swelling.

The idea that space can stretch, or be warped, is a central prediction of Einstein's general theory of relativity, and has been well enough tested by observation for all professional cosmologists to accept it. According to general relativity, space-time is not a static arena, but an aspect of the gravitational field. This field manifests itself as a warping, or curvature, of space-time geometry, and when it comes to the large scale structure of the Universe, such a warping occurs in the form of space being stretched with time.

A helpful, albeit two-dimensional, analogy for the expanding Universe is a balloon with paper spots stuck to the surface. As the balloon is inflated, so the spots, which play the role of galaxies, move apart from each other. Note that it is the surface of the balloon, not the volume within, that represents the three-dimensional Universe.

The notion that the physical Universe came into existence with time and not in time has a long history, dating back to St Augustine in the fifth century. But it took Einstein's theory of relativity to give the idea scientific respectability. The key feature of the theory of relativity is that space and time are part of the physical Universe, and not merely an unexplained background arena in which the Universe happens. Hence the origin of the physical Universe must involve the origin of space and time too.

I think you are misinterpreting time in reference to equivalency with space and quantum mechanics with the poetic notion of Time in the Humanities and Artistic regard. If so, then, of course, you are arguing in a different level.

But where could we look for such an origin? Well, the theory of relativity permits space and time to possess a variety of boundaries or edges, technically known as singularities. One type of singularity exists in the centre of a black hole. Another corresponds to a past boundary of space and time at the big bang. The idea is that, as you move backwards in time, the Universe becomes more and more compressed and the curvature or warping of space-time escalates without limit, until it becomes infinite at a singularity. Very roughly, it resembles the apex of a cone, where the fabric of the cone tapers to an infinitely sharp point and ceases. It is here that space and time begin.

Once this idea is accepted it is immediately obvious that the question "What happened before the big bang?" is meaningless. There was no such epoch as "before the big bang", because time began with the big bang.


It is quite obvious that time began in the big bang, and the big bang is not deniable, I say this as a Medical Scientist. In consequence, just because there was a technical malfunction in 2008 in analysis of a this does not disprove the Big Bang, which is and is validated by Astronomical-Astrophysical Science. We, the Scientific community, may not have the technological precision to assess this yet, but the concept and the theory itself is unchallenged.



Colloquially,
Lorenzo

PS. read more about it:

http://www.universetoday.com/2008/06/13/thinking-about-time-before-the-big-bang/


Lorenzo

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Re: The Bad Origin of Christmas: Truth Revealed
« Reply #90 on: January 05, 2009, 06:52:42 AM »

This thread, by origin, will become biblical. There is a time and place to explain the scientific, but when one discusses the biblical, one must answer and address in biblical terms.

We are not forcing our views to anyone, on the contrary, we are sharing views. If anyone takes offense to that, then I merely have to say is to grow thick skin.

We share views. It is up to the individual to take it or not; nothing is forced in here.

So please.

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Re: The Bad Origin of Christmas: Truth Revealed
« Reply #91 on: January 05, 2009, 06:57:40 AM »
Roy,

Quantum fluctuations are genuinely spontaneous and intrinsic to nature at its deepest level. There is no deeper reason, no underlying causes that explain when a nucleus will decay. It just happens.

Best,

Lorenzo

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Re: The Bad Origin of Christmas: Truth Revealed
« Reply #92 on: January 05, 2009, 07:16:30 AM »

In all due respect,

We celebrate Christ Mass on December 25th because it is part of the liturgical calendar, part of the worship that is in Roman Catholicism. Extrinsic to this, it is also celebrated and observed in Conservative Protestant Churches, namely: Methodism, Lutheranism, Anglican, Presbyterian etc.

One celebrates on a daily basis, but it just happens that December 25th is central and key in the liturgical year. It is the starting point, so to say in Layman's terms. Then it progresses with the celbration of baptismal, then Easter etc. Per Annum continuant.

Do we care what the history of December 25th in regards to pre-Christian epoch? Of course not, we are not celebrating paganism nor do we propagate pagan culture, as paganism in Rome was defeated when the entire city became Christian with the arrival of the Ministry of Christ's message through Peter (Cephas).

Anyone over-analyzing that and delving into the pre-history is missing the entire point and meaning of CHRIST MASS.


Respectfully,
Lorenzo

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Re: The Bad Origin of Christmas: Truth Revealed
« Reply #93 on: January 05, 2009, 12:45:23 PM »
nabibo man diay ni nga thread pagkawa nako!

hala ka mdb! seemed to me like you get some beating a few days ago! peace! merry xmas (from jan to dec nana nga greeting ha)
:-)

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Re: The Bad Origin of Christmas: Truth Revealed
« Reply #94 on: January 05, 2009, 01:13:02 PM »
ahhahaha

unsa man na KWAREDAS!!!!

murag whole sale!!!

ayessa

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Re: The Bad Origin of Christmas: Truth Revealed
« Reply #95 on: January 05, 2009, 10:37:57 PM »
thanks lorenzo for the cut and paste technology.  the information youve provided is not relevant to the question about time.

Its a deviation from the main question.  Salamat nalang, i also know how to search the internet.


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Re: The Bad Origin of Christmas: Truth Revealed
« Reply #96 on: January 06, 2009, 03:40:48 AM »
It answers your rhetorical question and it breaks your concept of time.

By all means we live in a world of technology.

Regards,

Lorenzo

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Re: The Bad Origin of Christmas: Truth Revealed
« Reply #97 on: January 06, 2009, 03:48:43 AM »

Absolutely wrong.

We do not use AD or BC anymore, the correct usage is CE (common era) and BCE (before common era).

Additionally, time and space begins in equivalency in a spectrum. At moment of the Big Bang.

It isn't an abstract concept, as you view it in your mind. Time, additionally, isn't an aesthetic or figurative or literary concept.

So please.

Best,
Lorenzo

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Re: The Bad Origin of Christmas: Truth Revealed
« Reply #98 on: January 06, 2009, 04:08:43 AM »
we are not on the same level on the understanding of time.  how is time actually defined? webster says that its a system of those sequential relations that any event has to any other, as past, present, or future; indefinite and continuous duration regarded as that in which events succeed one another.
and this system for all we know is created by man.  If I was early enough to be born in this earth, i could have also designed a different measurement too.

your "cut and paste "does not help much because your argument is the origin of time...  which is not our concern.  the gallaxy may grow, and the earth is aging of course.. nobody argues about that.  but this has nothing to do on what we have talked about.

Here in europe, its one hour plus in the winter and one hour minus for the summer. in asia its different. We dont have consistent measurement of time. Thats why, back to the issue on the time of the birth of Christ, this is not at all debatable, because they have different time measurements, and. an important note, the length of days and nights were different, climatic conditions were different.

How did this topic on time arose? it is when you based factual questions on biblical descriptions!!!
Our time now.!!! climatic conditions, time measurements are different.

so when the bible described that  the shepherd were lying on open fields, you cannot conclude its summer!!! for christ sake..

different time measurements,
different lenghts of days and nights,
different climatic conditions..
different human reaction /adaptation to climate

more than anybody else, you must know all these.  It is even hard to compare this winter of 2008-2009 to winter of 2007-2008.


any more cut and paste? i enjoy reading

Lorenzo

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Re: The Bad Origin of Christmas: Truth Revealed
« Reply #99 on: January 06, 2009, 04:27:46 AM »

The information I provided in the post was from a physics website, which I provided to answer your question of time itself. Your post declares that time began in AD as you quoted and the concept of time itself evolved. Or so how you meant to say it.

On the contrary, what I was trying to do, Roy, was proove to you that the concept of time existed even before that. Even in ancient civilizations such as in Sumeria, Mesopotamia, Egypt, Hittite, the Assyrian, even the pre-classical Nubian civilizations have their own concept of time and the beginning.

The classical Christian concept of time, which you tried to effervesce begins in what is now considered CE or formerly AD, which begins in  O. The year O.

The post that I shared, bears to mind the scientific and physical answer of the beginning of time itself. It bears in mind, Roy, that time and space and the spectrum that both occupy begins in the center of the conical concept of the Big Bang. Time did have a beginning, and it is thoroughly supported by Einstein's own Theory of Relativity.

I just like correct your misinterpretation of thinking that Time is nothing more than an abstract concept defined by man. Nay, time existed before man. Time existed even before the conglomeration and the propagation of common elements--which occurred after the Big Bang. (which I would share in detail if we were to discuss this in a physics thread, in all all due respect).

The information I provided and shared by 'pasting' nonetheless does not weaken my argument. Which I stated time and time again (no pun intended, lol).

Time has an origin. And time is not a human concept, in the view that you have.

Perhaps you have difficulty in understanding or digesting my argument?


Best,
Lorenzo



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