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Brain Power => Science and Research => Topic started by: Ligalig-Mike on December 10, 2008, 11:53:53 AM

Title: The Bad Origin of Christmas: Truth Revealed
Post by: Ligalig-Mike on December 10, 2008, 11:53:53 AM
Roman pagans first introduced the holiday of Saturnalia, a week long period of lawlessness celebrated between December 17-25. 

During this period, Roman courts were closed, and Roman law dictated that no one could be punished for damaging property or injuring people during the weeklong celebration.  The festival began when Roman authorities chose “an enemy of the Roman people” to represent the “Lord of Misrule.” 

ach Roman community selected a victim whom they forced to indulge in food and other physical pleasures throughout the week.  At the festival’s conclusion, December 25th, Roman authorities believed they were destroying the forces of darkness by brutally murdering this innocent man or woman.

source: Link (http://www.simpletoremember.com)
Title: Re: The Bad Origin of Christmas: Truth Revealed
Post by: fdaray on December 10, 2008, 12:35:22 PM
Born on Dec. 25 ?

Honest scholars admit that the customs of Christmas and a Dec. 25 celebration long predate the birth of Christ. Nevertheless, wasn't Jesus born on Dec. 25 ? Let's look at some of the scriptural evidence.

Luke's Gospel, describing Christ's birth, tells us: "So it was, that while they were there, the days were completed for her to be delivered. And she brought forth her firstborn Son, and wrapped Him in swaddling cloths, and laid Him in a manger, because there was no room for them in the inn. Now there were in the same country shepherds living out in the fields, keeping watch over their flock by night" (Luke 2:6-8, emphasis added throughout).

We see that when Jesus was born shepherds were spending the night with their flocks in open fields. In that region, from December to February, though the heat of the day might feel comfortable enough when the human body is covered, the cold of the night was piercing. Thus the shepherds never kept their flocks and herds out in the open country from December through February-it was simply too cold (Alexander Hislop, The Two Babylons, 1959, p. 2). This in itself tells us that Jesus could not have been born anywhere near Dec. 25.

The Roman census system is another historical proof that Jesus wasn't born in December. Luke 2:1 tells us that "it came to pass in those days that a decree went out from Caesar Augustus that all the world should be registered." However, this would not have happened in winter because "the middle of winter was not fitting for such a business, especially for women with child, and children to travel in. Therefore, Christ could not be born in the depth of winter ... And if any shall think the winter wind was not so extreme in these parts, let him remember the words of Christ in the gospel, `pray that your flight be not in the winter'" (Hislop, p. 92).

The Romans were efficient administrators. They would never consciously choose a time to register every man, woman and child when travel would have been so difficult because of cold and inclement weather. Here, too, is biblical proof that Jesus was not born in December's cold weather.

A far more likely scenario is that Jesus was born in the autumn, around the time of the biblical Feast of Tabernacles (Leviticus 23:34-36), when Joseph and Mary would have traveled to Jerusalem to keep the Feast along with thousands of other Jewish families. This also helps us understand why in the town Bethlehem, a few miles to the south of Jerusalem, "there was no room for them in the inn" (Luke 2:7)-the town would have been crowded with other travelers keeping the Feast at this time of year. (For additional biblical evidence that Jesus was likely born at this time and not on or near Dec. 25, request our free booklet Holidays or Holy Days: Does It Really Matter Which Days We Keep?)
Title: Re: The Bad Origin of Christmas: Truth Revealed
Post by: glacier_71 on December 10, 2008, 12:57:02 PM
lol...
Title: Re: The Bad Origin of Christmas: Truth Revealed
Post by: slackware on December 10, 2008, 01:13:13 PM
vatican must do something about this.
Title: Re: The Bad Origin of Christmas: Truth Revealed
Post by: Brownman on December 10, 2008, 02:05:03 PM
With the above revelation it is not surprising to know that in the near future xmas celebration will be move to another dates, unsa kahay reaksyon sa simbahang catoliko.
Title: Re: The Bad Origin of Christmas: Truth Revealed
Post by: TOPAC on December 10, 2008, 03:01:06 PM
i personally don't believe this... sorry ma sano ug sana...
Title: Re: The Bad Origin of Christmas: Truth Revealed
Post by: slackware on December 10, 2008, 04:56:12 PM
i guess people believe on what they want to believe even if it is wrong.
Title: Re: The Bad Origin of Christmas: Truth Revealed
Post by: Ligalig-Mike on December 10, 2008, 05:13:16 PM

Calle, you can search in Google for the term "origin of Christmas" and you'll get the same results from Wikipedia to many other historical websites.
Title: Re: The Bad Origin of Christmas: Truth Revealed
Post by: hofelina on December 10, 2008, 07:00:57 PM
There is nothing wrong in celebrating Christmas in its holy sense. What went wrong is that it is highly commercialzed and we are  becoming a hedonistic society.

Manay
Title: Re: The Bad Origin of Christmas: Truth Revealed
Post by: rustyphy on December 10, 2008, 07:55:57 PM
I believe that December 25th is not the birth of Jesus infact i have so many evidence, references that proves this.

Many christians following this tradition even they do not know what is truth..
http://scays.phpnet.us/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=22&Itemid=25
Title: Re: The Bad Origin of Christmas: Truth Revealed
Post by: rustyphy on December 10, 2008, 08:47:52 PM
The Ancient and Pagan Origin of Christmas
 
Most of the traditions we practice on December 25th have nothing to do with the birth
of Jesus, which probably actually occurred in late summer or early fall. In fact, most
of the customs and traditions of Christmas actually pre-date the birth of Jesus.  Here
are a few examples: 
 
The date of December 25th probably originated with the ancient birthday of the son-
god, Mithra, a pagan deity whose religious influence became widespread in the Roman
Empire during the first few centuries A.D. Mithra was related to the Semitic sun-god,
Shamash, and his worship spread throughout Asia to Europe where he was called
Deus Sol Invictus Mithras. Rome was well-known for absorbing the pagan religions
and rituals of its widespread empire. As such, Rome converted this pagan legacy to a
celebration of the god, Saturn, and the rebirth of the sun god during the winter
solstice period. The winter holiday became known as Saturnalia, and began the week
prior to December 25th. The festival was characterized by gift-giving, feasting, singing
and downright debauchery, as the priests of Saturn carried wreaths of evergreen
boughs in procession throughout the Roman temples. 
 
But after the conversion of emperor Constantine in 313 A.D. to Christianity, this new
religion was spread throughout the empire and Mithraism, as St. Jerome reports, was
forcefully subdued, especially in Rome and in Alexandria. In 376 A.D. Pope Leo
destroyed the temple of Mithra. Despite that, the Mithraic festival of the birth of the
Sun continued, as it was fun to be merry in the middle of the winter. It was not till the
year 530 AD that the church commissioned the Monk Dionysius Exiguus to proclaim
this popular time of the year as the birth of Christ. Constantine converted to
Christianity, but he kept celebrating this pagan festival, and transformed it into the
Christian holiday of Christmas. 
 
Many of the symbols associated with the modern holiday of Christmas such as the
burning of the Yule log, the eating of ham, the hanging of boughs, holly, mistletoe, etc.
are apparently derived from traditional northern European Yule celebrations. When
the first missionaries began converting the Germanic peoples to Christianity, they
found it easier to simply provide a Christian reinterpretation for popular feasts such
as Yule and allow the celebrations themselves to go on largely unchanged, rather than
trying to suppress them. 
 
The use of evergreen trees during Christmas comes from Germany, where it was used
in the Yule Time worship and celebration, as well as in observance of the resurrected
sun god, and of the Winter Solstice. The evergreen represented life, and also was
regarded as a phallic symbol in fertility worship.

It was believed that the red berries of the holly was a symbol of the menstrual blood of
the queen of heaven, Diana. The white berries of mistletoe were considered to be the
droplets of the semen of the sun god. Branches of holly and mistletoe were hung in
doorways of temples and homes, and it was believed that kissing beneath them will
make the spirits of the god and goddess to enter one’s body and make them fertile.   
 
The Scandinavian tradition of slaughtering a pig at Christmas, and not in the autumn,
is evidence of this conversion. The tradition derives from the sacrifice to the god Freyr at the Yule celebrations. Halloween and Easter are theorized to have been likewise
assimilated from northern European pagan festivals.
 
English historian Bede's Historia ecclesiastica gentis Anglorum ("Ecclesiastic History
of the English People") contains a letter from Pope Gregory I to Saint Mellitus, who was
then on his way to England to conduct missionary work among the heathen Anglo-
Saxons. The Pope suggests that converting heathens is easier if they are allowed to
retain the outward forms of their traditional pagan practices and traditions, while
recasting those traditions spiritually towards the one true God, instead of to their
pagan gods (whom the Pope refers to as "devils"), "to the end that, whilst some
gratifications are outwardly permitted them, they may the more easily consent to the
inward consolations of the grace of God". The Pope sanctions such conversion tactics
as Biblically acceptable, pointing out that God did much the same thing with the
ancient Israelites and their pagan sacrifices.
 
Although the Christian celebration of the birth of Christ was superimposed upon
ancient Pagan traditions, it does not, or should not, diminish the arrival of the "Prince
of Peace", and his original message of tolerance, compassion, giving and peace. Who
ever you worship, it is a time of joy, of giving, compassion, of praying for peace and of
gift giving and celebration!
Title: Re: The Bad Origin of Christmas: Truth Revealed
Post by: ms da binsi on December 10, 2008, 11:20:32 PM
I really didnt believe that Jesus was born in December... look at the pictures guys! Look at what they are wearing? and the sorroundings?

Do you think they could survived the cold with just linen and even the baby without thermal wear? Honestly not only that there are many proofs...

But you know what? who knows if Jesus was born in Somalia!

For me December is just for fun, thats all.

It is fun isnt it?
Title: Re: The Bad Origin of Christmas: Truth Revealed
Post by: fdaray on December 11, 2008, 08:08:57 AM
We, in the Missionary Baptist churches don't have any church services relating
to Christmas celebration. We have christmas parties , gift giving and etc. because
it is part of our culture  and traditions and it is  one of the most celebrated
Filipino festival.

We believed that Christ was born but not on Christmas Day.
Title: Re: The Bad Origin of Christmas: Truth Revealed
Post by: fdaray on December 11, 2008, 08:20:54 AM
   
Out of the thousands of subscribers of this blog, 6 of you were wondering why I don’t celebrate Christmas. Maybe you read my comments posted on this blog.

I know that you knew that Christmas is not a political celebration but a religious one. So, those who are Catholics and Protestants celebrate it. But Muslims and members of other religion, on the other hand, do not celebrate Christmas.

But you might be wondering why a Christian like me do not celebrate Christmas when in fact Christmas is the celebration of the birthday of Christ.

To let you know, I don’t want to talk about religion. I was blogging on this before but the result is not good or advantageous. But since you asked this to me, so I am forced to answer: why I don’t celebrate Christmas?

Christmas is just the invention of the Roman Catholic Church

When I was still a Catholic, December 16 to December 25 were few of my busiest days of the year. To let you know, I grew up serving the San Agustin Parish (Diocese of Surigao del Sur) as Sacristan. When I was 9 years old I became an Altar Boy (that was when Rev. Valentine Kind was our Parish Priest), and was promoted to Sacristan Mayor at the age of 14 (Rev. Peter O’niell was our Parish Priest at that time).

I found the celebration good and enjoyable. But I realized that the celebration is the teaching neither of Christ nor the Apostle but just an invention of the Roman Catholic Church. If you’ll dig up the Bible, you will never find any teaching that tells everyone to celebrate the birthday of Christ. What was taught by Christ is the commemoration of His death (not His birthday).

December 25 is not Christ’s Birthday

If you are reading the Bible, did you read any verses that tell us the birthday of Christ?

I was reading the Bible since my elementary school years but I found nothing. What I found are clues when Christ born like:

That was when Christ parents went to Bethlehem to register themselves as told by a decree of Caesar Augustus.
During the birth of Christ, shepherds living out in the fields, keeping watch over their flocks by night.
Now, dig up your encyclopedias and history books about these if these are the signs of winter season.

December 25, Originally Pagan Feast

Let’s consider this wikipedia entry:

A winter festival was traditionally the most popular festival of the year in many cultures. Reasons included less agricultural work needing to be done during the winter, as well as people expecting longer days and shorter nights after the winter solstice in the Northern Hemisphere.[8] In part, the Christmas celebration was created by the early Church in order to entice pagan Romans to convert to Christianity without losing their own winter celebrations.[9][8] Certain prominent gods and goddesses of other religions in the region had their birthdays celebrated on December 25, including Ishtar, Sol Invictus and Mithras. Various traditions are considered to have been syncretised from winter festivals including the following: ….

… Alleged representation of Christ in the form of the sun-god Helios or Sol Invictus riding in his chariot. Third century mosaic of the Vatican grottoes under St. Peter’s Basilica, on the ceiling of the tomb of the Julii.
Alleged representation of Christ in the form of the sun-god Helios or Sol Invictus riding in his chariot. Third century mosaic of the Vatican grottoes under St. Peter’s Basilica, on the ceiling of the tomb of the Julii.

The Romans held a festival on December 25 called Dies Natalis Solis Invicti, “the birthday of the unconquered sun.” The use of the title Sol Invictus allowed several solar deities to be worshipped collectively, including Elah-Gabal, a Syrian sun god; Sol, the god of Emperor Aurelian (AD 270–274); and Mithras, a soldiers’ god of Persian origin.[13] Emperor Elagabalus (218–222) introduced the festival, and it reached the height of its popularity under Aurelian, who promoted it as an empire-wide holiday.[14]

December 25 was also considered to be the date of the winter solstice, which the Romans called bruma.[10] It was therefore the day the Sun proved itself to be “unconquered” despite the shortening of daylight hours. (When Julius Caesar introduced the Julian Calendar in 45 BC, December 25 was approximately the date of the solstice. In modern times, the solstice falls on December 21 or 22.) The Sol Invictus festival has a “strong claim on the responsibility” for the date of Christmas, according to the Catholic Encyclopedia.[1] Several early Christian writers connected the rebirth of the sun to the birth of Jesus[15] “O, how wonderfully acted Providence that on that day on which that Sun was born . . . Christ should be born”, Cyprian wrote.[1]

Another record states that Christmas is just an invention of an heretic:

“An Armenian writer of the eleventh century states that the Christmas festival, invented in Rome by a heretic, Artemon, was first celebrated in Constantinople in 373.” (The New Schaff-Herzog Encyclopedia of Religious Knowledge, vol. 3, p. 47)

Celebrated with pagan rituals

It was recorded in The New Schaff-Herzog Encyclopedia of Religious Knowledge that says:

“The pagan festival with its riot and merry-making was so popular that Christians were glad of an excuse to continue its celebration with little change in spirit or in manner. Christian preachers of the West and the Nearer East protested against the unseemly frivolity with which Christ’s birthday was celebrated, while Christians of Mesopotamia accused their worship for adopting as Christian this pagan festival. Yet the festival rapidly gained acceptance and became at last s firmly established that even the Protestant revolution of the sixteenth century was not able to dislodge
Title: Re: The Bad Origin of Christmas: Truth Revealed
Post by: ms da binsi on December 11, 2008, 08:37:44 AM
Welcome to the club, fdaray!  ;)
Title: Re: The Bad Origin of Christmas: Truth Revealed
Post by: TOPAC on December 11, 2008, 08:55:33 AM
hhmmmm i'll do my research.. till then..

fdaray: asa nga town ang san agustin parish? sa san agustin? kay pirmi man ko surigao del sur when i was younger..
Title: Re: The Bad Origin of Christmas: Truth Revealed
Post by: A Layman on December 11, 2008, 09:02:12 AM
Mobalik na sab ta sa unang patotoo before ng Holy Roman Empire about Ptoleme's geocentric theory when they later on scraped off from the scriptures as a big flaw when Galileo Galilee and Johanes Kepler insisted the heleocentric theory of Nicholas Copernicus. When the Copernican theory was finally adapted by the Holy Roman Empire the Julian Calendar was also replaced by the Gregorian Calendar which is of use today. The other notable change which merits vital consideration is the geographical and climatic change over thousands of years.
Title: Re: The Bad Origin of Christmas: Truth Revealed
Post by: Brownman on December 11, 2008, 10:30:23 AM

Correct ka Belskie, musta na oi nasakpan baya ko ninyo ni Haze sa fs. he he.
Title: Re: The Bad Origin of Christmas: Truth Revealed
Post by: fdaray on December 11, 2008, 11:45:00 AM
Calle, TY for threading this topic. This topic speaks the truth of the Bible.
If Catholics celebrate Christmas  its all right. They had a doctrine for that
declared the Pope but it  is not Biblical.
 
I do not know of San Agustin parish in our provice of Davao del Sur.
Title: Re: The Bad Origin of Christmas: Truth Revealed
Post by: TOPAC on December 11, 2008, 12:00:36 PM
fdaray: the catholic doctrine must have been based on something. mao na ako pangitaon sir. im tolerant naman when it comes to religion. i don't like debates on religion though. pero diri sa tb murag ok ra, kinda cool lang kasi.

di ba nakapuyo ka sa Surigao del Sur? kay ingun man ka nagsakristan ka didto? asa sa sds?
Title: Re: The Bad Origin of Christmas: Truth Revealed
Post by: fdaray on December 11, 2008, 12:35:02 PM
Wala ko nakapuyo didto. Daghan ko ug mga relatives didto kay ang igsoon
sa akong Lolo didto manimuyo sukad pa sa  1900. Daghang ang mga Daray
clan didto sa Madrid, Carmen, ug Cantilan.

The Catholic Doctrine has the Doctrine of Infallability. In this teaching, they
believed that the Pope being the vicar of Christ on earth can not commit
mistakes if he proclaims , decides and confirms on matters about God or
teachings of Chirst.

In this doctrine, they believed that when the priest give blessings to bread
and wine during the mass, it becomes the real, true and genuine blood of
Christ.

This is also the same thing when the Pope declared that Jesus was born on
Dec. 25.
Title: Re: The Bad Origin of Christmas: Truth Revealed
Post by: TOPAC on December 11, 2008, 01:34:53 PM
transubstantiation tawag sa process na mahimong real blood and body of Christ sa wine and bread.
Title: Re: The Bad Origin of Christmas: Truth Revealed
Post by: fdaray on December 12, 2008, 12:09:44 PM
Do you believe that it  becomes the real flesh and blood of Christ.? Is it real and genuine that it contains  living cells?
Title: Re: The Bad Origin of Christmas: Truth Revealed
Post by: TOPAC on December 12, 2008, 01:46:30 PM
I do. No doubts, no hesitations. I remember a time when Mother Theresa of Calcuta paid the late Pope John Paul II a visit in Vatican. Mother Theresa attended a Eucharistic Celebration officiated by the Holy Father. When she took the communion, she had blood stains in her lips. Howelse would we explain that? God works in mysterious ways indeed. One of these mysteries is the transubstantion. And that what happens to Mother Theresa.
Title: Re: The Bad Origin of Christmas: Truth Revealed
Post by: Lorenzo on December 12, 2008, 02:04:04 PM

Absolutely believe that the Wine becomes the Blood of Christ. And Bread into His Body.
This has been an Apostolic Tradition since the time of the Apostles. Eucharistic Adoration is not only in Catholic Tradition, but is also shared in Orthodoxy. Both of whom, are the original Christian Churches. The latter, merely a split of the Catholic Rite.

Christ established the Catholic Church. And NOT even the gates of HELL can destroy it.
For 2 thousand years, the church has stood. It has spread the Faith to the 4 corners of the World. It has survived wars, and attacks on its Body. And continues to grow.

Please examine Matthew 16.

"Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah. For flesh and blood has not revealed this to you, but my heavenly Father. And so I say to you, you are Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church, and the gates of the netherworld shall not prevail against it. I will give you the keys to the kingdom of heaven. Whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven; and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven"
Title: Re: The Bad Origin of Christmas: Truth Revealed
Post by: Lorenzo on December 12, 2008, 02:05:48 PM

The Works of Blessed Theresa and the Sisters has brought salvation to thousands upon thousands of Indians in India. Many orphans who would have died, are alive, and many of whom are educated now, adopted, or living. Catholicism is strong in Southern India. Blessed Theresa has brought the WORD of God to that part of the world.

Glory be to God in the Highest.
Title: Re: The Bad Origin of Christmas: Truth Revealed
Post by: Lorenzo on December 12, 2008, 02:10:19 PM

Now faith is a well-grounded assurance of that for which we hope, and a conviction of the reality of things which we do not see.
--Hebrews 11: 1


Title: Re: The Bad Origin of Christmas: Truth Revealed
Post by: Lorenzo on December 12, 2008, 02:13:12 PM

1 Corinthians 10:16
16  The cup of blessing that we bless, is it not a sharing in the blood of Christ? The bread that we break, is it not a sharing in the body of Christ?

Acts 2:42
42  They devoted themselves to the apostles' teaching and fellowship, to the breaking of bread and the prayers.

John 6:53
53  So Jesus said to them, "Very truly, I tell you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you have no life in you.



Title: Re: The Bad Origin of Christmas: Truth Revealed
Post by: Lorenzo on December 12, 2008, 02:15:14 PM
The Traditions of the Catholic Church is Apostolic. It was the CHURCH that compiled the bible. The CHURCH existed before the Bible. Remember that. :)

In fact, Reading Scripture should be in lieu with Apostolic Tradition. And not on basis of one's own interpretation. Scripture and Tradition was made for each other. To properly profess and preach the BLESSED WORD.


PLEASE read:

"Now we command you, brethren, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that you keep away from any brother who is living in idleness and not in accord with the tradition that you received from us"
--2 Thess. 3:6.


To make sure that the apostolic tradition would be passed down after the deaths of the apostles, Paul told Timothy,
"What you have heard from me before many witnesses entrust to faithful men who will be able to teach others also"
--2 Tim. 2:2

 In this passage he refers to the first four generations of apostolic succession—his own generation, Timothy’s generation, the generation Timothy will teach, and the generation they in turn will teach.
Title: Re: The Bad Origin of Christmas: Truth Revealed
Post by: fdaray on December 12, 2008, 04:07:21 PM
Catholic doctrine of transubstantiation or "the real presence" was simple and direct. The idea contradicts common sense, he said. The doctrine claims that the bread and wine used in the communion ceremony is changed in substance so that what is bread and wine to all the senses is in fact the body and blood of Christ. If it looks like bread, smells like bread, tastes like bread, then it is bread. To believe otherwise is to give up the basis for all knowledge based on sense experience. Anything could be other than it appears to the senses. This argument has nothing to do with the skeptical argument about the uncertainty of sense knowledge. This is an argument not about certainty but about reasonable belief. If the Catholics are right about transubstantiation, then a book might really be a bishop, for example, or a pear might actually be Westminster Cathedral. The accidents of a thing would be no clue as to its substance. Everything we perceive could be completely unrelated to what it appears to be. Such a world would be unreasonable and unworthy of God. If the senses can't be trusted in this one case, they can't be trusted in any. To believe in transubstantiation is to abandon the basis of all knowledge: sense experience.

If it becomes real blood that contains live cells then the priest becomes a cannibal when he drinks during the mass. The bread and wine  symbolizes the body  and blood of Christ and not as real and genuine.
Title: Re: The Bad Origin of Christmas: Truth Revealed
Post by: TOPAC on December 12, 2008, 04:24:30 PM
I won't equate my faith with common sense or sense experience or what-have-yous.
Title: Re: The Bad Origin of Christmas: Truth Revealed
Post by: ms da binsi on December 12, 2008, 05:23:01 PM




 There was one time nga gihisgutan ang diary ni Mother Teresa nga sija gani was in doubt of Jesus...nalimot na ko basta i heard it from the TV...I dont know guys ug naka dungog ba mo kay it was only aired in a very short time, kay i know gi banned to sa Vatican nga issue...kabalo na mo sa power sa Vatican.

Anyhow ayaw nalang ninjo lalisa ang pasko, mag enjoy nalang ta. Kay ako bisan di ko mag celebrate enjoy man japun ko kay gawas daghan LAFANG nindot pa jud ang mga music...
Title: Re: The Bad Origin of Christmas: Truth Revealed
Post by: A Layman on December 12, 2008, 05:26:29 PM
Viva Ms Da Binsi, viva Reyna de Boholandia! Maajong Pasko kaninjong tanan mga tagbalay!
Title: Re: The Bad Origin of Christmas: Truth Revealed
Post by: -<GEC348>- on December 12, 2008, 05:30:47 PM



Let's celebrate Christmas everyday of the year!

Right, MsDaBinz? 

O, the weather outside is freezin'
So keep that fire a burnin'
And you lay down by the hearth
Turn to bronze, MsDaBinz, Turn to bronze  ;D


(Remember the bronznification?)

 
Title: Re: The Bad Origin of Christmas: Truth Revealed
Post by: ms da binsi on December 12, 2008, 05:31:38 PM
BTW, i never insisted what i believed...to each his own kay wa may maka luwas nato, kita raman...

Anyhow gahapon ning anhi na sad akong mga pampararam nga mga religious people from a certain church (di ko mo mention) kay nag hatag ug reading materials which i sometimes care to read kay educational man sad... anyhow, i told them nga sorry wa pa jud nako nabasa ang injung gibilin recently kay daghan kaajo kong naka linya nga basahonon and i have to read the, first then ang ilaha na nga material...Sus ning ingon man nang Merkana nga i think you should read the material first kay it is all about Jesus and it is Christmas time...so what i say to her, "So what if its christmas? Do you guys really believed that Jesus was born in December?" wa jud na sila naka tingug.

I wish di na sila mobalik kay to be honest, they sometimes annoyed me, kay i dont want anyone convince me of what they are believing kay i myself have my own brain and intellect and i know how to decide of things that makes me feel good.
Title: Re: The Bad Origin of Christmas: Truth Revealed
Post by: ms da binsi on December 12, 2008, 05:32:12 PM



hahhahaha Kiat man jud ni si GEC oi! hahahhaha
Title: Re: The Bad Origin of Christmas: Truth Revealed
Post by: ms da binsi on December 12, 2008, 05:33:42 PM


Alay ganahan ko sa akong rank karon dah!!!

Reyna de Boholandia!!!

i'm loving it!
Title: Re: The Bad Origin of Christmas: Truth Revealed
Post by: -<GEC348>- on December 12, 2008, 05:34:43 PM


This thread should now be called: "The Da Binzi Bronznification: Secret Revealed"

;D



Title: Re: The Bad Origin of Christmas: Truth Revealed
Post by: A Layman on December 12, 2008, 05:37:06 PM
Ako jod nga gikutil ang akong utok aron mangitag insaktong description para nimo.
Title: Re: The Bad Origin of Christmas: Truth Revealed
Post by: ms da binsi on December 12, 2008, 05:37:36 PM
bwaahhahahhahahhahahahhaha!

mashu-ang na jud ko ani!!!

asa na ang CODE? giilisan na sa bag-ong author nga si GEC Brown! hahahhaha
Title: Re: The Bad Origin of Christmas: Truth Revealed
Post by: ms da binsi on December 12, 2008, 05:40:14 PM
Huy matulog na ko ug una ninjo ha? kay hapit naman diay alas 5 sa buntag.

bag-o pa man gud mi naka uli, nag laag2x mi ni banana sa pikas baryo, nangita ug baylehan! hahahhahah

goodnight GEC!
goodnight Alay!
goodnight Calz!

see you tomorrow mga night time na sad kay mo adto na sad mi sa pikas purok ugma kay mangita lagi ug bayle, tawon mag bitbit na sad ko sa akong kaban ni nga puno sa sinina nga bag-ong gi almirolan!!!

goodnight...
Title: Re: The Bad Origin of Christmas: Truth Revealed
Post by: A Layman on December 12, 2008, 05:45:08 PM
Good nigt and sweet dreams!
Title: Re: The Bad Origin of Christmas: Truth Revealed
Post by: fdaray on December 14, 2008, 03:33:10 PM
 Sano calle, common sense prevails in everything we do. if its really turned to blood and bread,
 then its  a miracle. Its like the first miracle of Jesus turning water to wine. Miracles never happen
 during this days. Its blessings that comes to us  in may ways.
Title: Re: The Bad Origin of Christmas: Truth Revealed
Post by: TOPAC on December 15, 2008, 09:12:04 AM

as much as i wanted to convert mdb to catholicism, never mind. yahoo!!!

btw (read: bitaw) im not gifted in words nor personality to pastor God's most beautiful creation.

and i don't want to liken myself to paul kay di hamak nga mas gwapo ko nia!!! lol
Title: Re: The Bad Origin of Christmas: Truth Revealed
Post by: Pearlball on December 15, 2008, 09:30:38 AM
Link[/url]



I HAVE A BOOK ALL ABOUT CHRISTMAS.. i HAVE THE FACTS... I HAVE A BOOK THAT CONTAINS THE FACTS OF THE CHRISTMAS ORIGIN AND SAD TO SAY YOU ARE CORRECT...

www.yahweh.com (http://www.yahweh.com) .. and try to search for the origin of christmas.. you might be shock but there is nothing we can do but accept it... we should read facts and I am sure lots of people right there will protests ( like me before ) but the truth really hurts....
Title: Re: The Bad Origin of Christmas: Truth Revealed
Post by: glacier_71 on December 21, 2008, 01:05:48 AM

the origin maybe "bad" (still it's a relative description of an ancient culture), but i believe the intention of adopting its value is good...
Title: Re: The Bad Origin of Christmas: Truth Revealed
Post by: ms da binsi on December 21, 2008, 02:10:06 AM
but still, we are having to have our christmas party tonight...lol.
Title: Re: The Bad Origin of Christmas: Truth Revealed
Post by: glacier_71 on December 21, 2008, 03:41:26 AM
mao man, di konohay motoo og pasko. unya ra ba og di tagaan og Christmas bonus kay masuko....
Title: Re: The Bad Origin of Christmas: Truth Revealed
Post by: fdaray on December 21, 2008, 12:27:16 PM
I learned that Christmas has a bad origin but to the Pilipinos , it is  the most
 awaited season. It is a time for merrymaking, parties,gift giving, mano po
ninong o ninang, and fellowship with the families.

The essence of the celebration of Christmas is love although Christ was not
born on Christmas Day.
Title: Re: The Bad Origin of Christmas: Truth Revealed
Post by: glacier_71 on December 21, 2008, 08:33:32 PM

korek! love has been there, even before the existence of the universe.
Title: Re: The Bad Origin of Christmas: Truth Revealed
Post by: ejdemaulo on December 21, 2008, 09:00:45 PM
Christmas (IPA: /krɪsməs/), also referred to as Christmas Day or Christmastide, is an annual holiday celebrated on December 25 that marks and honors the birth of Jesus of Nazareth.[2][3] The birth of Jesus, which is the basis for the anno Domini system of dating, is thought to have occurred between 7 and 2 BC.[4] December 25 is not thought to be Jesus' actual date of birth, and the date may have been chosen to correspond with either a Roman festival,[5] or with the winter solstice.[6]

Modern customs of the holiday include gift-giving, church celebrations, and the display of various decorations—including the Christmas tree, lights, mistletoe, nativity scenes and holly. Santa Claus (also referred to as Father Christmas, although the two figures have different origins) is a popular mythological figure often associated with bringing gifts at Christmas. Santa is generally believed to be the result of a syncretization between St. Nicholas of Myra and elements from pagan Nordic and Christian mythology, and his modern appearance is believed to have originated in 19th century media.

Christmas is celebrated throughout the Christian population, but is also celebrated by many non-Christians as a secular, cultural festival. The holiday is celebrated around the world. Because gift-giving and several other aspects of the holiday involve heightened economic activity among both Christians and non-Christians, Christmas has become a major event for many retailers....
Title: Re: The Bad Origin of Christmas: Truth Revealed
Post by: ejdemaulo on December 21, 2008, 09:06:24 PM
Christmas is typically the largest annual economic stimulus for many nations. Sales increase dramatically in almost all retail areas and shops introduce new products as people purchase gifts, decorations, and supplies. In the U.S., the "Christmas shopping season" generally begins on Black Friday, the day after Thanksgiving, though many American stores begin selling Christmas items as early as October.[47] In Canada, merchants begin advertising campaigns just before Halloween (October 31), and step up their marketing following Remembrance Day on November 11.

In most areas, Christmas Day is the least active day of the year for business and commerce; almost all retail, commercial and institutional businesses are closed, and almost all industries cease activity (more than any other day of the year). In England and Wales, the Christmas Day (Trading) Act 2004 prevents all large shops from trading on Christmas Day. Scotland is currently planning similar legislation. Film studios release many high-budget movies in the holiday season, including Christmas films, fantasy movies or high-tone dramas with high production values.

An economists analysis calculates that Christmas is a deadweight loss under orthodox microeconomic theory, due to the surge in gift-giving. This loss is calculated as the difference between what the gift giver spent on the item and what the gift receiver would have paid for the item. It is estimated that in 2001 Christmas resulted in a $4 billion deadweight loss in the U.S. alone.[48][49] Because of complicating factors, this analysis is sometimes used to discuss possible flaws in current microeconomic theory. Other deadweight losses include the effects of Christmas on the environment and the fact that material gifts are often perceived as white elephants, imposing cost for upkeep and storage and contributing to clutter.
Title: Re: The Bad Origin of Christmas: Truth Revealed
Post by: ejdemaulo on December 21, 2008, 09:09:26 PM
The Nativity of Jesus refers to the Christian belief that the Messiah was born to the Virgin Mary. The story of Christmas is based on the biblical accounts given in the Gospel of Matthew, namely Matthew 1:18-Matthew 2:12 and the Gospel of Luke, specifically Luke 1:26-Luke 2:40. According to these accounts, Jesus was born to Mary, assisted by her husband Joseph, in the city of Bethlehem. According to popular tradition, the birth took place in a stable, surrounded by farm animals, though neither the stable nor the animals are mentioned in the Biblical accounts. However, a manger is mentioned in Luke 2:7 where it states "She wrapped him in cloths and placed him in a manger, because there was no room for them in the inn." Early iconographic representations of the nativity placed the stable and manger within a cave (located, according to tradition, under the Church of the Nativity in Bethlehem). Shepherds from the fields surrounding Bethlehem were told of the birth by an angel, and were the first to see the child.[34] Many Christians believe that the birth of Jesus fulfilled prophecies from the Old Testament. Many modern scholars view the two Gospel accounts as theological fictions.[35]

Remembering is a central way that Christians celebrate Christmas. There is a very long tradition of the Nativity of Jesus in art. The Eastern Orthodox Church practices the Nativity Fast in anticipation of the birth of Jesus, while much of the Western Church celebrates Advent. In some Christian denominations, children perform plays re-telling the events of the Nativity, or sing carols that reference the event. Some Christians also display a small re-creation of the Nativity, known as a Nativity scene, in their homes, using figurines to portray the key characters of the event. Live Nativity scenes and tableaux vivants are also performed, using actors and live animals to portray the event with more realism.[36]

Nativity scenes traditionally include the Three Wise Men, Balthazar, Melchior, and Caspar, although their names and number are not referred to in the Biblical narrative, who are said to have followed a star, known as the Star of Bethlehem, found Jesus, and presented gifts of gold, frankincense, and myrrh.[37] The including of the Magi in the nativity would be in conflict with the Biblical account, as it indicates that they found Jesus approximately two years after his birth, rather than on the exact day (Matt. 2:7–8, 16).
Title: Re: The Bad Origin of Christmas: Truth Revealed
Post by: glacier_71 on December 21, 2008, 09:10:48 PM
unsaon man pag-binisaya(binol-anon) aning DEADWEIGHT LOSS ha?
Title: Re: The Bad Origin of Christmas: Truth Revealed
Post by: ejdemaulo on December 21, 2008, 09:17:33 PM
hehehehe...makabuslot ug bulsa as in....gift giving gud ni nga time, pro ok lang basta happy ang gitagaan...its better to give than to receive di ba?
Title: Re: The Bad Origin of Christmas: Truth Revealed
Post by: glacier_71 on December 22, 2008, 01:42:37 AM
realistic lang gu pod. kung naay ikahatag maayo ug wa, sensya.
ako, cards ra tawn. nya manawag akong mga amigo ug amiga ug mo-greet.
mag-ampo na lang pod ko nila nga malipayon sila karong pasko ug sunod tuig.
Title: Re: The Bad Origin of Christmas: Truth Revealed
Post by: slackware on December 22, 2008, 03:26:58 AM
crisismas na karon!
Title: My Justificaton To This Thread
Post by: ms da binsi on December 22, 2008, 05:57:43 AM
(http://i91.photobucket.com/albums/k305/tagaliloy/the%20manger/IMG_5466.jpg)

(http://i91.photobucket.com/albums/k305/tagaliloy/the%20manger/IMG_5474.jpg)

(http://i91.photobucket.com/albums/k305/tagaliloy/IMG_5477.jpg)
mao ni akong gisuot nag picture nila, ning kubol pa man gani akong mga tudlo...

mao nga di na nato ni lalison...

mag warak nalang ta karong VIRTUAL TAGAY DAY ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: The Bad Origin of Christmas: Truth Revealed
Post by: slackware on December 22, 2008, 12:23:18 PM
ka cute sa miming!
Title: Re: The Bad Origin of Christmas: Truth Revealed
Post by: glacier_71 on December 22, 2008, 12:25:09 PM
http://i91.photobucket.com/albums/k305/tagaliloy/the%20manger/IMG_5466.jpg[/img]

(http://i91.photobucket.com/albums/k305/tagaliloy/the%20manger/IMG_5474.jpg)

(http://i91.photobucket.com/albums/k305/tagaliloy/IMG_5477.jpg)
mao ni akong gisuot nag picture nila, ning kubol pa man gani akong mga tudlo...

mao nga di na nato ni lalison...

mag warak nalang ta karong VIRTUAL TAGAY DAY ;D ;D ;D

kalami baya iwara-wara dihas snow ay, nya mag-bit-bit og Tanduay....
Title: Re: The Bad Origin of Christmas: Truth Revealed
Post by: fdaray on December 23, 2008, 10:59:59 AM
how  beautiful is Christmas there in the snow! " I'm dreaming of a white Christmas,
the song goes"..........
Title: Re: The Bad Origin of Christmas: Truth Revealed
Post by: buwadsanga on December 23, 2008, 12:31:44 PM
well, with all these stories its still a product of man's inteligence. but Christmas, Sta. Claus, reindeer are all God's mysterious ways to me!

rock n roll!!
Title: Re: The Bad Origin of Christmas: Truth Revealed
Post by: glacier_71 on December 23, 2008, 12:41:56 PM
humans always have been dealing with supernatural since the beginning of humankind. one of those ways of dealing it is the use of symbolism.   
with all the symbolisms we use during Christmas season, what we have believed in Christmas is the most important: Love taking the face of humanity. This Love is God, who saves us ALL.
Title: Re: The Bad Origin of Christmas: Truth Revealed
Post by: Lorenzo on December 23, 2008, 01:10:59 PM
Adoration of the Nativity and Virginal Birth.

The day of days. The Birth of the WORD MADE FLESH.
 
Title: Re: The Bad Origin of Christmas: Truth Revealed
Post by: Lorenzo on January 03, 2009, 09:50:59 AM

2 Corinthians 5:7
We live by faith, not by sight
Title: Re: The Bad Origin of Christmas: Truth Revealed
Post by: Lorenzo on January 03, 2009, 09:53:17 AM
Again,

Hebrews 11:1
Now faith is being sure of what we hope for and certain of what we do not see.

Title: Re: The Bad Origin of Christmas: Truth Revealed
Post by: glacier_71 on January 03, 2009, 10:39:22 PM
korek!!
Title: Re: The Bad Origin of Christmas: Truth Revealed
Post by: ayessa on January 04, 2009, 02:39:44 AM
please bare in mind that the bible is not a  a factual history book, its a figurative-literary description of the life of the Hebrews and of the life of Christ and His descendants.

time measurements were different during these times..

Title: Re: The Bad Origin of Christmas: Truth Revealed
Post by: Lorenzo on January 04, 2009, 03:33:06 AM
Absolutely, and we know that, but nonetheless the spirit of the word is God-breathed.

As a catholic and as a christian we are all called to bear in mind its teachings. Again, I am answering the subject that was called in question, which was biblical in origin.

Regards,
Title: Re: The Bad Origin of Christmas: Truth Revealed
Post by: ayessa on January 04, 2009, 04:50:51 AM
the main proposition is the bad origin of christmas  which in nature a factual question.  and i just find it funny why the debate is biblical.  the last thing i would involved myself into is a religiuos debate.  which reminds me of the comical religious debate in the rizal park during sundays..

the main topic being posted is not even talking about christmas as the birth of christ.  shouldnt we wonder why the chinese, the thais and the non-christian world not to include the muslims celebrate christmas.  it has become more or less a civil celebration.

and maybe we remind ourselves that time is fictional and is created by man. and the fiction of time during that time is different.
Title: Re: The Bad Origin of Christmas: Truth Revealed
Post by: ms da binsi on January 04, 2009, 04:56:40 AM
pak pak jud ko nimo Ayessa!

pak! pak! pak!
Title: Re: The Bad Origin of Christmas: Truth Revealed
Post by: glacier_71 on January 04, 2009, 05:37:09 AM
maayo ning TB kay naay certified cheerleader...QUEEN DA BINS...heheheh. pak pak pak
Title: Re: The Bad Origin of Christmas: Truth Revealed
Post by: Lorenzo on January 04, 2009, 07:21:39 AM

In my opinion, there is nothing wrong in engaging in religious conversation--as it delves into the biblical knowledge and answers the questions we have. Is it destructive? I think not, rather, it is positive and constructive, so long as one maintains a thick skin and understand that people coming from different religious groups have different interpretations of said subject matter. In consequence, the conversation I had with fdaray was on basis with said subject matter, however, a side conversation of the main theme.

For us Christians, we need to remember the true meaning of Christmas not merely as a cultural and social aspect. That beneath the presents, songs, decorations, the physical or ornamental aesthetics of it all--the reason for celebration is the remembrance and of the birth of Christ. Hence the term: CHRIST MASS. As it was day of celebration, in liturgical celebration.

To answer your rhetorical question, if the non christians per se chinese, thais, even muslims wish to celebrate Christmas, it is up to them. However, the reverberant truth is the true reason for the Christmas Season. And that, my friend, is the birth of Christ.



Colloquially,
Title: Re: The Bad Origin of Christmas: Truth Revealed
Post by: Lorenzo on January 04, 2009, 07:25:56 AM

On the contrary,

time and space is within a spectrum and in equivalency. Time, began, in bases of astronomy and physics when the Big Bang occurred.

Time isn't fictional nor is it an arbitrary concept.

Man can die, yet time continues. Until the collapse of the universe itself.

If you want to delve into a conversation with me on that, by all means.

:)
Title: Re: The Bad Origin of Christmas: Truth Revealed
Post by: ms da binsi on January 04, 2009, 08:18:34 AM


mao ra tawon na akong role diri Glace...

hahhahaha
Title: Re: The Bad Origin of Christmas: Truth Revealed
Post by: -<GEC348>- on January 04, 2009, 08:21:50 AM


On the discussion of time and the subject-title of this board:

The TIME to be happy is now
The place to be happy is here
And the way to the happy is
To make others happy
MERRY CHRISTMAS and
a HAPPY NEW YEAR!!!   ;D



Title: Re: The Bad Origin of Christmas: Truth Revealed
Post by: simplylee on January 04, 2009, 08:23:45 AM
yes! Christ is the issue when we talk about christmas not the date.
time begun when GOD restored the earth, in verse one of the book of genesis GOD created the heavens and the earth in verse two the earth became void and without form, in verse 3 GOD restored the earth then created man
Title: Re: The Bad Origin of Christmas: Truth Revealed
Post by: glacier_71 on January 04, 2009, 12:09:01 PM

you've got the best role...
tig-painit kung mamugnaw,
tig-bugnaw kung manginit,
tig-pahumok kung nay mogahi,
tig-pagahi kung nay mohumok...
Title: Re: The Bad Origin of Christmas: Truth Revealed
Post by: glacier_71 on January 04, 2009, 12:25:43 PM
diha sa Pasko, gihikap kos akong darling, nakamimot na kos Date and Time...kay perting giloka ang dapit nga iyang gihikap...hahahaha
Title: Re: The Bad Origin of Christmas: Truth Revealed
Post by: ayessa on January 04, 2009, 08:29:49 PM
[quote author=Lorenzo link=topic=16644.msg200724#msg200724 date=1231025156]
On the contrary,

time and space is within a spectrum and in equivalency. Time, began, in bases of astronomy and physics when the Big Bang occurred.

Time isn't fictional nor is it an arbitrary concept.

Man can die, yet time continues. Until the collapse of the universe itself.

If you want to delve into a conversation with me on that, by all means.

Im sorry, its a proven fact that the definition of time only became universal after the death of Christ which is Anno Domini...  and please, no one recorded time during the big bang.. the scientists in Switzerland failed on their research.  This was in 2008 if you remember. and their experiment was not to measure how old the earth is, it was to discover how the earth was formed and how life began.

Astronomy? the revolution of the earth around the sun? who said that there is 24 hours a day, 365 days a year? Human beings, we created time.
how do you define fiction? something that is created, not discovered and hence time is not exact and it not a science.
Im not arguing on equivalency.  Time is created by man, not by nature. period. The carbon measurements used by anthropologist to measure how old an artifact is , is not accurate, and is only basing on approximation.   and theses measurements again are made by man, not by God.

My main argument is that the discussion about time and its accuracy is useless since at first we have different time measurements compared to the time measurements during that time.

Whether or not we celebrate Christmas on May because maybe Christ was born in May, the main point is that, Christmas does not even have a Christian origin as the main proposition states.

Im a Christian and I dont push my religion on other people.  I am at least happy that the spirit of Christmas unites the rest of the world Christian or not in a common celebration of love and giving.

Title: Re: The Bad Origin of Christmas: Truth Revealed
Post by: ayessa on January 04, 2009, 08:32:03 PM
Im sorry, its a proven fact that the definition of time only became universal after the death of Christ which is Anno Domini...  and please, no one recorded time during the big bang.. the scientists in Switzerland failed on their research.  This was in 2008 if you remember. and their experiment was not to measure how old the earth is, it was to discover how the earth was formed and how life began.

Astronomy? the revolution of the earth around the sun? who said that there is 24 hours a day, 365 days a year? Human beings, we created time.
how do you define fiction? something that is created, not discovered and hence time is not exact and it not a science.
Im not arguing on equivalency.  Time is created by man, not by nature. period. The carbon measurements used by anthropologist to measure how old an artifact is , is not accurate, and is only basing on approximation.   and theses measurements again are made by man, not by God.

My main argument is that the discussion about time and its accuracy is useless since at first we have different time measurements compared to the time measurements during that time.

Whether or not we celebrate Christmas on May because maybe Christ was born in May, the main point is that, Christmas does not even have a Christian origin as the main proposition states.

Im a Christian and I dont push my religion on other people.  I am at least happy that the spirit of Christmas unites the rest of the world Christian or not in a common celebration of love and giving.
Title: Re: The Bad Origin of Christmas: Truth Revealed
Post by: ayessa on January 04, 2009, 08:35:52 PM
The Origin Of Christmas

      Christmas is a holiday shared and celebrated by many religions.

      It is a day that has an effect on the entire world.

      To many people, it is a favorite time of the year involving gift giving, parties and feasting. Christmas is a holiday that unifies almost all of professing Christendom.

      The spirit of Christmas causes people to decorate their homes and churches, cut down trees and bring them into their homes, decking them with silver and gold.

      In the light of that tree, families make merry and give gifts one to another.

      When the sun goes down on December 24th, and darkness covers the land, families and churches prepare for participation in customs such as burning the yule log, singing around the decorated tree, kissing under the mistletoe and holly, and attending a late night service or midnight mass.

      What is the meaning of Christmas? Where did the customs and traditions originate?

      You, as a Christian, would want to worship the Lord in Spirit and in truth, discerning good from evil.

      The truth is that all of the customs of Christmas pre-date the birth of Jesus Christ, and a study of this would reveal that
      Christmas in our day is a collection of traditions and practices taken from many cultures and nations.

      The date of December 25th comes from Rome and was a celebration of the Italic god, Saturn, and the rebirth of the sun god.

      This was done long before the birth of Jesus.

      It was noted by the pre-Christian Romans and other pagans, that daylight began to increase after December 22nd, when they assumed that the sun god died.

      These ancients believed that the sun god rose from the dead three days later as the new-born and venerable sun.

      Thus, they figured that to be the reason for increasing daylight.

      This was a cause for much wild excitement and celebration. Gift giving and merriment filled the temples of ancient Rome, as sacred priests of Saturn, called dendrophori, carried wreaths of evergreen boughs in procession.

      In Germany, the evergreen tree was used in worship and celebration of the yule god, also in observance of the resurrected sun god.

      The evergreen tree was a symbol of the essence of life and was regarded as a phallic symbol in fertility worship.

      Witches and other pagans regarded the red holly as a symbol of the menstrual blood of the queen of heaven, also known as Diana.

      The holly wood was used by witches to make wands.

      The white berries of mistletoe were believed by pagans to represent droplets of the semen of the sun god.

      Both holly and mistletoe were hung in doorways of temples and homes to invoke powers of fertility in those who stood beneath and kissed, causing the spirits of the god and goddess to enter them.

      These customs transcended the borders of Rome and Germany to the far reaches of the known world.

      The question now arises: How did all of these customs find their way into contemporary Christianity, ranging from Catholicism to Protestantism to fundamentalist churches?

      The word "Christmas"itself reveals who married paganism to Christianity.

      The word "Christmas" is a combination of the words "Christ" and "Mass.

      The word "Mass" means death and was coined originally by the Roman Catholic Church, and belongs exclusively to the church of Rome.

      The ritual of the Mass involves the death of Christ, and the distribution of the "Host", a word taken from the Latin word "hostiall" meaning victim!

      In short, Christmas is strictly a Roman Catholic word.

      A simple study of the tactics of the Romish Church reveals that in every case, the church absorbed the customs, traditions and general paganism of every tribe, culture and nation in their efforts to increase the number of people under their control.

      In short, the Romish church told all of these pagan cultures, "Bring your gods, goddesses, rituals and rites, and we will assign Christian sounding titles and names to them.

      When Martin Luther started the reformation on October 31st, 1517, and other reformers followed his lead, all of them took with them the paganism that was so firmly imbedded in Rome.

      These reformers left Christmas intact.

      In England, as the authorized Bible became available to the common people by the decree of King James the II in 1611, people began to discover the pagan roots of Christmas, which are clearly revealed in Scripture.

      The Puritans in England, and later in Massachusetts Colony, outlawed this holiday as witchcraft.

      Near the end of the nineteenth century, when other Bible versions began to appear, there was a revival of the celebration of Christmas.

      We are now seeing ever-increasing celebrating of Christmas or Yule, its true name, as we draw closer to the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ!

      In both witchcraft circles and contemporary Christian churches, the same things are going on.


Title: Re: The Bad Origin of Christmas: Truth Revealed
Post by: simplylee on January 04, 2009, 08:51:15 PM
thank you for the information ayessa, for more info there was a book i read before that explains not just christmas but all the traditions, the Babylon Mystery Religion by Ralph Woodrow
Title: Re: The Bad Origin of Christmas: Truth Revealed
Post by: glacier_71 on January 04, 2009, 09:45:40 PM
The birth of Christ is true and good.
His birth is central to Christian faith.
Christmas is part expression of this faith.
Adopting cultures to express this faith is not bad.
Some Christmas symbols are partly adoptations of an existing culture.
Christ is the true meaning behind Christmas.
Christ birth is not diminished with culture used in order to express deeply its meaning.
Christmas is good.
Title: Re: The Bad Origin of Christmas: Truth Revealed
Post by: ms da binsi on January 05, 2009, 12:37:09 AM
akong question to all of you...

nganong mo feel raman mo ug christmas on december? honest i find it BULL you know why? ug christian gani mo you always carry it in your heart all year round. why only express it in december? isnt it ironic? (not a song ha)

speaking of faith, kay wa man jud ta kabalo kanus-a sha natawo, why you celebrate it on december? is it because somebody told you so? is that faith? i dont think so. it is hypocrisy to me...sorry im just a straight forward.

hmmmm...
Title: Re: The Bad Origin of Christmas: Truth Revealed
Post by: ayessa on January 05, 2009, 12:45:29 AM
Date is not the question.  Of course sensitive ang mga tawo on Christmas date because they were made to believe that Christ was born on December 25.  Pero gani, paganistic ang origin sa celebration of Christmas on December 25.  Gihaum ni siya sa mga romans nga na converted to Christianity later on.

Tinood dili issue ang date pero kinahanglan nga naa tay common nga petsa kung when ta mag celebrate para naay unity ang mga tawo. Imagine, ang pasko nato mayo and sa mga amerikano ,hunyo? pinaagi sa common nga petsa, ang tibook kalibutan naay common day of celebrating christmas.
Title: Re: The Bad Origin of Christmas: Truth Revealed
Post by: ms da binsi on January 05, 2009, 01:28:41 AM
i celebrate it all year round...

tinuod it is hard to change kay ning gamut na na sa atong DNA.

but  some of you here in TB must have  observed that nga i sent gifts or cards all year round,  kay as i have said, my christmas is not only a december....

Title: Re: The Bad Origin of Christmas: Truth Revealed
Post by: ayessa on January 05, 2009, 01:41:37 AM
wow sweet.. so magsige nalang kog panaygon nimo everyday ha?
Title: Re: The Bad Origin of Christmas: Truth Revealed
Post by: ms da binsi on January 05, 2009, 05:45:29 AM

hahahha
duet tang duha! hahahha
Title: Re: The Bad Origin of Christmas: Truth Revealed
Post by: Lorenzo on January 05, 2009, 06:49:22 AM

Direct evidence for a cosmic origin in a big bang comes from three observations. The first, and most direct, is that the Universe is still expanding today. The second is the existence of a pervasive heat radiation that is neatly explained as the fading afterglow of the primeval fire that accompanied the big bang. The third strand of evidence is the relative abundances of the chemical elements, which can be correctly accounted for in terms of nuclear processes in the hot dense phase that followed the big bang.

But what caused the big bang to happen? Where is the centre of the explosion? Where is the edge of the Universe? Why didn't the big bang turn into a black hole? To understand the correct picture, it is first necessary to have a clear idea of what the expansion of the Universe entails. Contrary to popular belief, it is not the explosive dispersal of galaxies from a common centre into the depths of a limitless void. The best way of viewing it is to imagine the space between the galaxies expanding or swelling.

The idea that space can stretch, or be warped, is a central prediction of Einstein's general theory of relativity, and has been well enough tested by observation for all professional cosmologists to accept it. According to general relativity, space-time is not a static arena, but an aspect of the gravitational field. This field manifests itself as a warping, or curvature, of space-time geometry, and when it comes to the large scale structure of the Universe, such a warping occurs in the form of space being stretched with time.

A helpful, albeit two-dimensional, analogy for the expanding Universe is a balloon with paper spots stuck to the surface. As the balloon is inflated, so the spots, which play the role of galaxies, move apart from each other. Note that it is the surface of the balloon, not the volume within, that represents the three-dimensional Universe.

The notion that the physical Universe came into existence with time and not in time has a long history, dating back to St Augustine in the fifth century. But it took Einstein's theory of relativity to give the idea scientific respectability. The key feature of the theory of relativity is that space and time are part of the physical Universe, and not merely an unexplained background arena in which the Universe happens. Hence the origin of the physical Universe must involve the origin of space and time too.

I think you are misinterpreting time in reference to equivalency with space and quantum mechanics with the poetic notion of Time in the Humanities and Artistic regard. If so, then, of course, you are arguing in a different level.

But where could we look for such an origin? Well, the theory of relativity permits space and time to possess a variety of boundaries or edges, technically known as singularities. One type of singularity exists in the centre of a black hole. Another corresponds to a past boundary of space and time at the big bang. The idea is that, as you move backwards in time, the Universe becomes more and more compressed and the curvature or warping of space-time escalates without limit, until it becomes infinite at a singularity. Very roughly, it resembles the apex of a cone, where the fabric of the cone tapers to an infinitely sharp point and ceases. It is here that space and time begin.

Once this idea is accepted it is immediately obvious that the question "What happened before the big bang?" is meaningless. There was no such epoch as "before the big bang", because time began with the big bang.


It is quite obvious that time began in the big bang, and the big bang is not deniable, I say this as a Medical Scientist. In consequence, just because there was a technical malfunction in 2008 in analysis of a this does not disprove the Big Bang, which is and is validated by Astronomical-Astrophysical Science. We, the Scientific community, may not have the technological precision to assess this yet, but the concept and the theory itself is unchallenged.



Colloquially,
Lorenzo

PS. read more about it:

http://www.universetoday.com/2008/06/13/thinking-about-time-before-the-big-bang/

Title: Re: The Bad Origin of Christmas: Truth Revealed
Post by: Lorenzo on January 05, 2009, 06:52:42 AM

This thread, by origin, will become biblical. There is a time and place to explain the scientific, but when one discusses the biblical, one must answer and address in biblical terms.

We are not forcing our views to anyone, on the contrary, we are sharing views. If anyone takes offense to that, then I merely have to say is to grow thick skin.

We share views. It is up to the individual to take it or not; nothing is forced in here.

So please.
Title: Re: The Bad Origin of Christmas: Truth Revealed
Post by: Lorenzo on January 05, 2009, 06:57:40 AM
Roy,

Quantum fluctuations are genuinely spontaneous and intrinsic to nature at its deepest level. There is no deeper reason, no underlying causes that explain when a nucleus will decay. It just happens.

Best,
Title: Re: The Bad Origin of Christmas: Truth Revealed
Post by: Lorenzo on January 05, 2009, 07:16:30 AM

In all due respect,

We celebrate Christ Mass on December 25th because it is part of the liturgical calendar, part of the worship that is in Roman Catholicism. Extrinsic to this, it is also celebrated and observed in Conservative Protestant Churches, namely: Methodism, Lutheranism, Anglican, Presbyterian etc.

One celebrates on a daily basis, but it just happens that December 25th is central and key in the liturgical year. It is the starting point, so to say in Layman's terms. Then it progresses with the celbration of baptismal, then Easter etc. Per Annum continuant.

Do we care what the history of December 25th in regards to pre-Christian epoch? Of course not, we are not celebrating paganism nor do we propagate pagan culture, as paganism in Rome was defeated when the entire city became Christian with the arrival of the Ministry of Christ's message through Peter (Cephas).

Anyone over-analyzing that and delving into the pre-history is missing the entire point and meaning of CHRIST MASS.


Respectfully,
Lorenzo
Title: Re: The Bad Origin of Christmas: Truth Revealed
Post by: TOPAC on January 05, 2009, 12:45:23 PM
nabibo man diay ni nga thread pagkawa nako!

hala ka mdb! seemed to me like you get some beating a few days ago! peace! merry xmas (from jan to dec nana nga greeting ha)
Title: Re: The Bad Origin of Christmas: Truth Revealed
Post by: ms da binsi on January 05, 2009, 01:13:02 PM
ahhahaha

unsa man na KWAREDAS!!!!

murag whole sale!!!
Title: Re: The Bad Origin of Christmas: Truth Revealed
Post by: ayessa on January 05, 2009, 10:37:57 PM
thanks lorenzo for the cut and paste technology.  the information youve provided is not relevant to the question about time.

Its a deviation from the main question.  Salamat nalang, i also know how to search the internet.

Title: Re: The Bad Origin of Christmas: Truth Revealed
Post by: Lorenzo on January 06, 2009, 03:40:48 AM
It answers your rhetorical question and it breaks your concept of time.

By all means we live in a world of technology.

Regards,
Title: Re: The Bad Origin of Christmas: Truth Revealed
Post by: Lorenzo on January 06, 2009, 03:48:43 AM

Absolutely wrong.

We do not use AD or BC anymore, the correct usage is CE (common era) and BCE (before common era).

Additionally, time and space begins in equivalency in a spectrum. At moment of the Big Bang.

It isn't an abstract concept, as you view it in your mind. Time, additionally, isn't an aesthetic or figurative or literary concept.

So please.

Best,
Lorenzo
Title: Re: The Bad Origin of Christmas: Truth Revealed
Post by: ayessa on January 06, 2009, 04:08:43 AM
we are not on the same level on the understanding of time.  how is time actually defined? webster says that its a system of those sequential relations that any event has to any other, as past, present, or future; indefinite and continuous duration regarded as that in which events succeed one another.
and this system for all we know is created by man.  If I was early enough to be born in this earth, i could have also designed a different measurement too.

your "cut and paste "does not help much because your argument is the origin of time...  which is not our concern.  the gallaxy may grow, and the earth is aging of course.. nobody argues about that.  but this has nothing to do on what we have talked about.

Here in europe, its one hour plus in the winter and one hour minus for the summer. in asia its different. We dont have consistent measurement of time. Thats why, back to the issue on the time of the birth of Christ, this is not at all debatable, because they have different time measurements, and. an important note, the length of days and nights were different, climatic conditions were different.

How did this topic on time arose? it is when you based factual questions on biblical descriptions!!!
Our time now.!!! climatic conditions, time measurements are different.

so when the bible described that  the shepherd were lying on open fields, you cannot conclude its summer!!! for christ sake..

different time measurements,
different lenghts of days and nights,
different climatic conditions..
different human reaction /adaptation to climate

more than anybody else, you must know all these.  It is even hard to compare this winter of 2008-2009 to winter of 2007-2008.


any more cut and paste? i enjoy reading
Title: Re: The Bad Origin of Christmas: Truth Revealed
Post by: Lorenzo on January 06, 2009, 04:27:46 AM

The information I provided in the post was from a physics website, which I provided to answer your question of time itself. Your post declares that time began in AD as you quoted and the concept of time itself evolved. Or so how you meant to say it.

On the contrary, what I was trying to do, Roy, was proove to you that the concept of time existed even before that. Even in ancient civilizations such as in Sumeria, Mesopotamia, Egypt, Hittite, the Assyrian, even the pre-classical Nubian civilizations have their own concept of time and the beginning.

The classical Christian concept of time, which you tried to effervesce begins in what is now considered CE or formerly AD, which begins in  O. The year O.

The post that I shared, bears to mind the scientific and physical answer of the beginning of time itself. It bears in mind, Roy, that time and space and the spectrum that both occupy begins in the center of the conical concept of the Big Bang. Time did have a beginning, and it is thoroughly supported by Einstein's own Theory of Relativity.

I just like correct your misinterpretation of thinking that Time is nothing more than an abstract concept defined by man. Nay, time existed before man. Time existed even before the conglomeration and the propagation of common elements--which occurred after the Big Bang. (which I would share in detail if we were to discuss this in a physics thread, in all all due respect).

The information I provided and shared by 'pasting' nonetheless does not weaken my argument. Which I stated time and time again (no pun intended, lol).

Time has an origin. And time is not a human concept, in the view that you have.

Perhaps you have difficulty in understanding or digesting my argument?


Best,
Lorenzo
Title: Re: The Bad Origin of Christmas: Truth Revealed
Post by: ayessa on January 06, 2009, 04:30:41 AM
who told you that A.D. and B.C. is not used anymore when the Humbolt Universität zu Berlin School of Social Sciences still used it?  please dont say it when you are not sure.

so please
Title: Re: The Bad Origin of Christmas: Truth Revealed
Post by: ayessa on January 06, 2009, 04:32:35 AM
funny really...
the concept of time existed before the ancient civilization? so who conceptualized it?  hahahah God? and God told us that today is monday... or you settle to the definition of Genesis?


i enjoy this... hahaha
Title: Re: The Bad Origin of Christmas: Truth Revealed
Post by: Lorenzo on January 06, 2009, 04:33:36 AM

It may be so, you're arguing on the concept of time and the definitions of webster. You're viewing it in aesthetic and linguistic point of view. Thematics.

I'm arguing on basis of scientific origin.

Secondly, I would like to refute your statement that the concept of time isn't being argued. On the contrary, its a hotly debated topic in Physics and Astronomy as well as Cosmology. You would be surprised to the level of discussion of said topic.

Title: Re: The Bad Origin of Christmas: Truth Revealed
Post by: Lorenzo on January 06, 2009, 04:34:43 AM

We in the scientific community do not use AD or BC any longer. The scientific community prefers to utilize a more secular CE or BCE.

Title: Re: The Bad Origin of Christmas: Truth Revealed
Post by: Lorenzo on January 06, 2009, 04:35:56 AM

Time begins at moment of the Big Bang.

I was merely adding depth to your own argument. lol.

Agree with you, I love this discussion.
Title: Re: The Bad Origin of Christmas: Truth Revealed
Post by: ayessa on January 06, 2009, 04:37:42 AM
lorenzo

stop contradicting yourself

this were my claims
1. time is created by man hence it is fictional.  We have differnt measurements of time during the ancient civilization and during the time of christ.

2. please dont base your answers on biblical foundations when the question is factual.  this is misleading.

ang topic lagi. date sa birth of christ.... and kamot an nako .... bible basihan tungod sa descriptions...


again..

differnt time measurements
different climatic conditions
different human reaction and adaptation to climate


there is no argument on the beginning of time..l of course hahaha. there is a beginning of time...
of course, the earth is aging.  but do these support any of your claim.. wala


so stop the intellectual arrogance....


Title: Re: The Bad Origin of Christmas: Truth Revealed
Post by: Lorenzo on January 06, 2009, 04:44:06 AM

Roy,

It isn't contradiction since my argument is unchallenged. You're arguing on aesthetics and literary concepts.

You fail to understand the importance of scientific truths. Perhaps since you're far more in depth into the social sciences.

We are arguing concept of time. Man's concept of time changes according to his understanding. This can be seen in the limited understanding of man some a millenia ago or two. However, in the light of scientific understanding and the brilliance of Einstein's Theory of General Relativity, it brings understanding that time, and space begins at an point of origin. A beginning.

My friend, it is the very basis of Cosmology, as well as Astrophysics as we know it.

I would be the one to dare say challenge you on your understanding, perhaps you're thinking too much on the humanistic concepts.

Time is absolute. Aesthetics and philosophy is but something that is man-made.

Time and Space, is scientifically absolute and has a beginning. It is not fictional.

Title: Re: The Bad Origin of Christmas: Truth Revealed
Post by: Lorenzo on January 06, 2009, 04:44:45 AM
Social science does not equate Scientific HARD science.

Cheers,
Title: Re: The Bad Origin of Christmas: Truth Revealed
Post by: Lorenzo on January 06, 2009, 04:50:06 AM

You are focusing too much on secondary and peripheral points that do not substantiate your claim.

Your claim was time is fictional. The word fictional is 'untrue' 'made up'.

To declare that Time is fictional is to completely debase the Theory of Relativity, to debase and to reject The Big Bang.

To completely de-legitimize the Schools of Physics, Astrophysics, Cosmology.

Your rhetorical statement of time beginning in AD is unfounded. Time begins in the apex of the Cone. In equivalency with space and the entire continuum.


Your arguments make no sense.
Too much puff and no proofs.
Title: Re: The Bad Origin of Christmas: Truth Revealed
Post by: ayessa on January 06, 2009, 04:56:32 AM
who was around when the big bang occured to conceptualize time? 

i dont argue on the beginning of time. as ive said. the earth ages.. thats fact.

But when i said time is fictional, on the premise to the discussion on the date of Christ..

it is.. why?

because time measurements were different.... and please, how can you base your argument on the bible on the exact date of Christ?  basing on descriptions  we are in different situations man?  different climatic conditions, different adaptation..

and to note, aesthetic is a critical judgement of the beautiful by kant has nothing to do with the discussion.. simang na sad.
Title: Re: The Bad Origin of Christmas: Truth Revealed
Post by: ayessa on January 06, 2009, 04:58:04 AM
stick to the topic.. kay nagkalayo.. balik ta sa orignal reason nganung nag discuss ta ug time..

then and only then there will be a resolution...

Title: Re: The Bad Origin of Christmas: Truth Revealed
Post by: ayessa on January 06, 2009, 05:01:06 AM
if you say that social science does not equate to scientific hard science then why are you basing your argument on the bible?

isnt it contradictory?

hahahahah
Title: Re: The Bad Origin of Christmas: Truth Revealed
Post by: ayessa on January 06, 2009, 05:03:07 AM
what are the scientific means to consider in determining the birth of Christ?

una,  you consider carbon dating kung naa pa iyang bukog.. maybe pwede pa...

second... is only through history!!!
kay kung na prove pa na sa pure science..  naa na unta kay exact date karon!!!!

hahahah
Title: Re: The Bad Origin of Christmas: Truth Revealed
Post by: Lorenzo on January 06, 2009, 05:03:25 AM

Refute:


Incorrect, how is it a proven fact? Does everyone in the world agree to this? To be a fact or a Law, it must be substantiated or universally accepted.

And actually, The Big Bang began is estimated to have occured some 13.73 ± 0.12 billion years. Which is in basis of the Cosmological Principle, which states the isotropicity and the homogeneity of the universe. The present proofs that substantiate this is the Hubble-type of expansions observed in the redshifts in distant galaxies.


You are arguing the concept of time in terms of the social aspect, in terms of civilization and growth. In terms of the humanistic.

The discussion of time and its accuracy is not useless consider it is in equivalency with space. It is imperative to the understanding of the age of the earth, the age of the galaxies, imperative in calculating time shifts, calculating the Hubble Concept.

So please.

Title: Re: The Bad Origin of Christmas: Truth Revealed
Post by: Lorenzo on January 06, 2009, 05:05:18 AM

I was not basing my argument on the bible, on the contrary, I am basing my argument on the Theory of Relativity and the Cosmological Principle, LoL

I think you are misinterpreting alot here, bud.
Title: Re: The Bad Origin of Christmas: Truth Revealed
Post by: ayessa on January 06, 2009, 05:06:34 AM
lets go back why weve discussed time... why? because you cant support your answer..

always contradicting...

exact date of the birth of christ...based on figurative desccriptions of the bible...

this does not hold water....

Title: Re: The Bad Origin of Christmas: Truth Revealed
Post by: ayessa on January 06, 2009, 05:08:33 AM
lets make this simple lorenzo... and please answer my question for the last time...

didnt you claim biblical scriptures in support of your answer in determining the birth of Christ?

or i might be hallucinating?
Title: Re: The Bad Origin of Christmas: Truth Revealed
Post by: ayessa on January 06, 2009, 05:14:01 AM
main proposition: bad origin of christmas
sub proposition: date of christmas
sub proposition 2: birth date of Christ

isnt it you who argued on biblical bases the date of christ why I commented that time is fictional... most importantly in this sense?


isnt it you who may have taken the drugs intended for your patients...  hehehe joke
Title: Re: The Bad Origin of Christmas: Truth Revealed
Post by: ayessa on January 06, 2009, 05:15:28 AM
your scientific theories may be true.. since these are not yet laws.. can be disproven later on....


its your cup of tea... i have mine...

but please stick to the original topic.!!!!
Title: Re: The Bad Origin of Christmas: Truth Revealed
Post by: Lorenzo on January 06, 2009, 05:15:36 AM

Incorrect, you complete tried to debase Time. In your own words you called it 'useless'.
So please, bud.

Secondly, you said the concept of time began in AD, I merely added light to your comment by saying that you are arguing in humanistic viewpoint considering that many other civilizations prior to classical Roman Epoch had their own concepts of time.

My argument, Roy, is that Time begins not in the start of the AD epoch, nor does it begin in the beginning of different civilizations. You are being rather provincial. My argument is that Time begins in the Conic Apex, in parallel with Space itself. That is why the Universe is in constant expansion, that is why the common elements seen in the Periodic Table of Elements are also found in different planets (per se Mars) and in our own Moon where elements such as Zinc, Lead, Cadmium, Copper, etc are also found in the their terric surface. Same as in earth. This suggests a singularity and a common similarity in the chemical composition--which IS TRUE. Which therefore suggests that there was a gaseous phase--per se Hydrogen. Which facilitated the coring of materiel into planets. Now if we maintain and uphold that--and take into consideration the Cosmological Principle and the Theory of Relativity--it substantiates the Big Bang.

If you are having difficulty in digesting this, which in my opinion--is rather BASIC..then I only have a recommendation that you read more into it.


Best,
Lorenzo
Title: Re: The Bad Origin of Christmas: Truth Revealed
Post by: ayessa on January 06, 2009, 05:18:08 AM
lets not forget the topic why we have talked about time so that we can trace the progress of the discussion...
 

keeping on evading....

Title: Re: The Bad Origin of Christmas: Truth Revealed
Post by: ayessa on January 06, 2009, 05:20:10 AM
.................


your message was so simple to comprehend lorenzo...

that time has a beginning..and earth and galaxy ages....


but let us stick to the discussion..... lets remember why we have talked about time?

why?
Title: Re: The Bad Origin of Christmas: Truth Revealed
Post by: Lorenzo on January 06, 2009, 05:22:13 AM

Where and when did I state that? Please, indulge me..

I actually posted an addendum to a comment MsDabinsi posted some 4-5 pages. In that post, I answered a misinterpretation. That Christmas and the date--is the core and center of the Liturgical Calendar. It begins the year, in the Annual Mass dates--and coincides with the celebration of Baptism, Easter, the Ressurection etc etc.

The post, Roy, was elucidating many in here to the logistics of the date.


Best,
Title: Re: The Bad Origin of Christmas: Truth Revealed
Post by: ayessa on January 06, 2009, 05:23:52 AM

didnt you claim biblical scriptures in support of your answer in determining the birth of Christ?
yes or no
Title: Re: The Bad Origin of Christmas: Truth Revealed
Post by: Lorenzo on January 06, 2009, 05:25:16 AM

Good!

Time has a beginning, and as it has a beginning it has an end.

The Universe, like time, will expand until it collapses upon itself.

Best,
Title: Re: The Bad Origin of Christmas: Truth Revealed
Post by: Lorenzo on January 06, 2009, 05:26:29 AM

Ah, you conceded.

:)

Title: Re: The Bad Origin of Christmas: Truth Revealed
Post by: ayessa on January 06, 2009, 05:27:00 AM
fdaray said and i qoute

Born on Dec. 25 ?

Honest scholars admit that the customs of Christmas and a Dec. 25 celebration long predate the birth of Christ. Nevertheless, wasn't Jesus born on Dec. 25 ? Let's look at some of the scriptural evidence.

Luke's Gospel, describing Christ's birth, tells us: "So it was, that while they were there, the days were completed for her to be delivered. And she brought forth her firstborn Son, and wrapped Him in swaddling cloths, and laid Him in a manger, because there was no room for them in the inn. Now there were in the same country shepherds living out in the fields, keeping watch over their flock by night" (Luke 2:6-8, emphasis added throughout).

We see that when Jesus was born shepherds were spending the night with their flocks in open fields. In that region, from December to February, though the heat of the day might feel comfortable enough when the human body is covered, the cold of the night was piercing. Thus the shepherds never kept their flocks and herds out in the open country from December through February-it was simply too cold (Alexander Hislop, The Two Babylons, 1959, p. 2). This in itself tells us that Jesus could not have been born anywhere near Dec. 25.

The Roman census system is another historical proof that Jesus wasn't born in December. Luke 2:1 tells us that "it came to pass in those days that a decree went out from Caesar Augustus that all the world should be registered." However, this would not have happened in winter because "the middle of winter was not fitting for such a business, especially for women with child, and children to travel in. Therefore, Christ could not be born in the depth of winter ... And if any shall think the winter wind was not so extreme in these parts, let him remember the words of Christ in the gospel, `pray that your flight be not in the winter'" (Hislop, p. 92).

The Romans were efficient administrators. They would never consciously choose a time to register every man, woman and child when travel would have been so difficult because of cold and inclement weather. Here, too, is biblical proof that Jesus was not born in December's cold weather.

A far more likely scenario is that Jesus was born in the autumn, around the time of the biblical Feast of Tabernacles (Leviticus 23:34-36), when Joseph and Mary would have traveled to Jerusalem to keep the Feast along with thousands of other Jewish families. This also helps us understand why in the town Bethlehem, a few miles to the south of Jerusalem, "there was no room for them in the inn" (Luke 2:7)-the town would have been crowded with other travelers keeping the Feast at this time of year. (For additional biblical evidence that Jesus was likely born at this time and not on or near Dec. 25, request our free booklet Holidays or Holy Days: Does It Really Matter Which Days We Keep?)


as an answer to this ive said

that we cannot conclude on this because we have different time measurements.. and that time is fictional..

then you reacted.. isnt? or im wrong?
Title: Re: The Bad Origin of Christmas: Truth Revealed
Post by: ayessa on January 06, 2009, 05:30:31 AM
this is exactly what ive said!!!

the main proposition is the bad origin of christmas  which in nature a factual question.  and i just find it funny why the debate is biblical.  the last thing i would involved myself into is a religiuos debate.  which reminds me of the comical religious debate in the rizal park during sundays..

the main topic being posted is not even talking about christmas as the birth of christ.  shouldnt we wonder why the chinese, the thais and the non-christian world not to include the muslims celebrate christmas.  it has become more or less a civil celebration.

and maybe we remind ourselves that time is fictional and is created by man. and the fiction of time during that time is different.
Title: Re: The Bad Origin of Christmas: Truth Revealed
Post by: ayessa on January 06, 2009, 05:31:13 AM
this was my first statement..

please bare in mind that the bible is not a  a factual history book, its a figurative-literary description of the life of the Hebrews and of the life of Christ and His descendants.

time measurements were different during these times..
Title: Re: The Bad Origin of Christmas: Truth Revealed
Post by: ayessa on January 06, 2009, 05:32:14 AM
this is what youve answered....

 Absolutely, and we know that, but nonetheless the spirit of the word is God-breathed.

As a catholic and as a christian we are all called to bear in mind its teachings. Again, I am answering the subject that was called in question, which was biblical in origin.

Regards,

so am i making this up? or what?
Title: Re: The Bad Origin of Christmas: Truth Revealed
Post by: ayessa on January 06, 2009, 05:32:44 AM
please read your own previous comments as you read mine.. ok?   thanks
Title: Re: The Bad Origin of Christmas: Truth Revealed
Post by: ayessa on January 06, 2009, 05:34:22 AM
didnt you mean biblical in origin, the birth of christ?  or i may just be too tired today that im hallucinating?
Title: Re: The Bad Origin of Christmas: Truth Revealed
Post by: ayessa on January 06, 2009, 05:34:49 AM
im not putting words into your mouth, lorenzo..
Title: Re: The Bad Origin of Christmas: Truth Revealed
Post by: Lorenzo on January 06, 2009, 05:38:31 AM

LOL!

I posted that in regards to the teachings of the Catholic Church in regards to the Blood of Christ and the Body of Christ. In Eucharistic tradition.

We were not even discussing time, lol

Good try, bud.

;)
Title: Re: The Bad Origin of Christmas: Truth Revealed
Post by: Lorenzo on January 06, 2009, 05:39:31 AM
Roy,

If you want to read the entire thread, start from the beginning and not 'page skipping'

hahaha!

Made me laugh there.
Title: Re: The Bad Origin of Christmas: Truth Revealed
Post by: ayessa on January 06, 2009, 05:39:31 AM
I have always thought that devoted Christians like you are men enough to admit what they have said...



 back to the main proposition, you cannot base your arguments on bibical sense, since the question is factual...

arent Christians humble enough to accept this?

I am a Christian and I will accept this.. period...
Title: Re: The Bad Origin of Christmas: Truth Revealed
Post by: ayessa on January 06, 2009, 05:41:12 AM
my comment was intended for fdaray and you reacted...

why should i read the entire thread when we are talking about our discussion you and me?


you need endorphine... im happy...
Title: Re: The Bad Origin of Christmas: Truth Revealed
Post by: Lorenzo on January 06, 2009, 05:43:15 AM

Roy,

you just used a quotation that doesn't even substantiate your claim. On the contrary it refers back to the discussion I had with fdaray in regards to the Apostolic Tradition of the Catholic Church in regards to the Body of Christ and the Blood of Christ in Eucharistic Intake.

Which, in regards to the discussion--is supported biblically.



We did not even talk about time---THAT, Roy, was something you brought into the thread. :P

so please...I stand with my original argument. AND I think I've debugged your flawed argument(s).

Lorenzo,
Title: Re: The Bad Origin of Christmas: Truth Revealed
Post by: ayessa on January 06, 2009, 05:43:52 AM
so then lorenzo.... i hope you will also read what you have said and what  i have said.....

isnt pride a sin?  the problem lorenzo,, is that you cannot deny what you have written here....

goodnight.... and just a piece of advice...

dont base your arguments on the bible or any figurative literature for that matter when the question is factual...

Title: Re: The Bad Origin of Christmas: Truth Revealed
Post by: Lorenzo on January 06, 2009, 05:46:04 AM

LoL

Well considering that the central nervous system produces endorphins naturally, and produced by the pituitary glands--and are natural neurotransmitters secreted in mammals (in animals at that), I can say that I have my own supply.

Do you have enough?

E
Title: Re: The Bad Origin of Christmas: Truth Revealed
Post by: Lorenzo on January 06, 2009, 05:49:34 AM

LoL

This has nothing, absolutely nothing to do with the argument that you even posted.

Nothing, none of your posts or claims was even substantiated..you were arguing just for the sake of argument--even despite the fact that i answered your own definition of time as being an abstract concept--and being 'useless'.

So, I beg to reiterate your most famous saying, "Stick to the topic."



Cordially,
Lorenzo
Title: Re: The Bad Origin of Christmas: Truth Revealed
Post by: Lorenzo on January 06, 2009, 05:52:33 AM

You're hallucinating.

I was referring to the Catholic Tradition of the Eucharist being Biblical in Origin.

Now, Ray, if you read the entire thread from beginning, you would have known that instead of assuming i was regarding to the Birth of Christ our Lord.


In all due respect,


Lorenzo,
Title: Re: The Bad Origin of Christmas: Truth Revealed
Post by: Lorenzo on January 06, 2009, 05:59:19 AM

Again, an example of a communication gap.

You, Ray, are selectively reading text.

When I wrote that comment, I was addressing fdaray in our discussion about the Eucharist and its origin being biblical.

Christ's Birth was not addressed.

Had you read my post, you would not have made a communication misinterpretation.

Dare I say that you even read any of my posts at all in refute of your argument(s)?

Don't be so provincial.


Warm regards,
Lorenzo

Title: Re: The Bad Origin of Christmas: Truth Revealed
Post by: Lorenzo on January 06, 2009, 06:34:27 AM
I apologize to all the readers if we went off tangent. Back to the subject.

Humbly yours,
Lorenzo
Title: Re: The Bad Origin of Christmas: Truth Revealed
Post by: glacier_71 on January 06, 2009, 09:10:38 AM
nakaigit na kog binasa og asa ra  kini padong...LOL....
Title: Re: The Bad Origin of Christmas: Truth Revealed
Post by: Lorenzo on January 06, 2009, 09:24:37 AM
lol, glace, its more interesting (hilarious) when one misinterprets a quote that wasn't even supporting an argument.

This thread is good for vasodilation and brochoconstriction. lol.

Maka katawa pood ta.
Title: Re: The Bad Origin of Christmas: Truth Revealed
Post by: TOPAC on January 06, 2009, 10:32:37 AM
pagkabiboha jud sa thread! lami basahon pero sige kahang ang mga computer diri! ahak!


gitubol ko glacier! lol
Title: Re: The Bad Origin of Christmas: Truth Revealed
Post by: glacier_71 on January 06, 2009, 10:35:14 AM
calle, time to burst out your opinion on this thread...tambal sa tubol ug kaigit...lol..
Title: Re: The Bad Origin of Christmas: Truth Revealed
Post by: ms da binsi on January 06, 2009, 10:47:15 AM
im having an anaphylactic shock!

tabang gimme my nebulizer!!!!
Title: Re: The Bad Origin of Christmas: Truth Revealed
Post by: Lorenzo on January 06, 2009, 10:53:09 AM
haha, just a nice lively debate. ;)
Title: Re: The Bad Origin of Christmas: Truth Revealed
Post by: glacier_71 on January 06, 2009, 11:02:30 AM
i always have a divine feeling kung gaigiton ko... feels like "already here but not yet.." lol...
Title: Re: The Bad Origin of Christmas: Truth Revealed
Post by: TOPAC on January 06, 2009, 11:06:28 AM
galisud na gani kog digest sa ilang discussion bay glacier. kung muapil ko, gubot pas lukot ning threada.

Title: Re: The Bad Origin of Christmas: Truth Revealed
Post by: ms da binsi on January 06, 2009, 11:15:14 AM
ajaw nalang lagi liboga imong utok Calz!

mag tagay nalang lagi ta...

to each his own nalang ta ani lagi...

kay for me bisan maabut pa sa Mars ug discuss aning butangan,

 di man na maka convince nako...

and i dont want to convince the readers too...
Title: Re: The Bad Origin of Christmas: Truth Revealed
Post by: glacier_71 on January 06, 2009, 11:26:25 AM

aw, ayaw na lang, bay calls, kay basig kinahanglan ko ani og usang kom-kom Immodium pakalmas akong "gibati" lol...
Title: Re: The Bad Origin of Christmas: Truth Revealed
Post by: glacier_71 on January 06, 2009, 11:28:35 AM
each his own[/i] nalang ta ani lagi...

kay for me bisan maabut pa sa Mars ug discuss aning butangan,

 di man na maka convince nako...

and i dont want to convince the readers too...

TAGAY  na sa sad, da bins, lain na sad ning Virtual tagay...lol
Title: Re: The Bad Origin of Christmas: Truth Revealed
Post by: ms da binsi on January 06, 2009, 11:36:47 AM
mao lagi pagka palahubog ba ning mga baje sa TB! hahahahha
Title: Re: The Bad Origin of Christmas: Truth Revealed
Post by: TOPAC on January 06, 2009, 12:14:22 PM
TAAAAAGAAAAAAAAAY diha!

Hubog na ko!

mdb, laki man nas glacier!lol
Title: Re: The Bad Origin of Christmas: Truth Revealed
Post by: glacier_71 on January 06, 2009, 12:28:54 PM

nindot diay i-uban-uban ninyo sa kasanggotan kay di masayang ang tuba ug suka...hehehe
Title: Re: The Bad Origin of Christmas: Truth Revealed
Post by: glacier_71 on January 06, 2009, 12:30:31 PM

puslang wa man kahay klaro og sinugdanan ning pasko, LAK LAK...BEER PA DAY...
Title: Re: The Bad Origin of Christmas: Truth Revealed
Post by: TOPAC on January 06, 2009, 12:35:48 PM
lamias red horse, gisingot pa ang botelya! tagay pa!
Title: Re: The Bad Origin of Christmas: Truth Revealed
Post by: glacier_71 on January 06, 2009, 12:41:45 PM
bottoms up...way limit ni. diay daghan San Mig galutaw-lutaw sa cooler...golf! golf! golf!
Title: Re: The Bad Origin of Christmas: Truth Revealed
Post by: TOPAC on January 06, 2009, 12:49:58 PM

hubog na ka bay. bottomless oi. bottoms up ka run! lol

buttons down!!!
Title: Re: The Bad Origin of Christmas: Truth Revealed
Post by: glacier_71 on January 06, 2009, 12:56:05 PM

hahahaha...murag hubog2 na jud...buttons down...open your mouth!!!
Title: Re: The Bad Origin of Christmas: Truth Revealed
Post by: buwadsanga on January 06, 2009, 12:56:24 PM
rak en roll!
Title: Re: The Bad Origin of Christmas: Truth Revealed
Post by: TOPAC on January 06, 2009, 01:10:36 PM
hahahahaha

buttons down na mdb!!! sumpaji!!!
Title: Re: The Bad Origin of Christmas: Truth Revealed
Post by: glacier_71 on January 06, 2009, 01:15:22 PM

hahahahhaa...gitabyog-tabyog pa tingali, calle, kay gi-"rak en rol" pa man ni mdb...hahahhahaha
Title: Re: The Bad Origin of Christmas: Truth Revealed
Post by: TOPAC on January 06, 2009, 02:02:18 PM
hubog na man ka jamo bay. si buwadsanga may ga rak-en-rol, tsk tsk tsk
Title: Re: The Bad Origin of Christmas: Truth Revealed
Post by: simplylee on January 06, 2009, 06:24:59 PM
:)
Title: Re: The Bad Origin of Christmas: Truth Revealed
Post by: apothecary on January 06, 2009, 08:30:58 PM
WOULD IT MATTER MUCH?

There probably is a searing debate i may start if i tell you Dec. 25 or April 29, it really does not matter.

You see, recently, i just felt compelled to believe that Christmas never really means so much to Christians and Catholics.

You see, with or without Christams in December, nothing really changes.

Peole just seem to equate Christmas in December as merrymaking. But is does not turn out that way to all Filipinos, even Boholanos who are far better off.

Like the season pushes us to give some more? Nope, not really.

In fact the season;s revelries cause a many woes unto people's relationships.

Hundreds of innocent people are hurt by firecrackers and explosives. Many wag their tongues in envy at how the rich lavishly pamper themselves with holiday shopping sprees.

And the poor still remain poor, Christmas be in December or July.

I think Christmas be better celebrated not in time wut in a place, not in Bethlehem but in a shrine inside each of us. Everytime.
 

I think you see what i mean?



Title: Re: The Bad Origin of Christmas: Truth Revealed
Post by: ms da binsi on January 06, 2009, 11:59:36 PM
Bitaw oi! to all of you...mag hsgut gani ta ug religion bisan asa or bisan unsa nga sitwasypn, dont generalize nga everybody has the same religion as you kay mao man nay maka conflict sa panag hiusa.

Mao bitaw na diri sa Merika nga giseparate ang religion kay para magka hiusa. Walay ma left alone sa suok kay sila Saksi ni Jehova gamay ra nga congregation kay sa mga Episcopalians nga nag baha...

To make it fair sa tanan nga molupyo, keep your religion in your house...ang mga mubo ra ug pangutok mao tong nakiglalis nganong giwala ang prayer sa schools and etc! now when you pray the Our Father sa School do you think mo pray ug Our Father si Akmed? nope. And you you think that would change Akmed's faith though hearing you pray the our father everyday? nope!

Respect one's faith! that is!

Kay only the hypocrite religious people would say they are correct and be saved! Thats very STOOP! each and everyone of us has his own faith on how to be save, and everyone of us wants to see heaven if the time comes. Pero lain lain man lagi ta ug karsada ug sakyanan.

Ang uban gusto jud ka pasakyun sa ilang bus nga pwerteng punoa, bibo kaajo sila but i want to travel alone in my mercedes! got what i mean?

So buy your own cars now, and travel safely...
Title: Re: The Bad Origin of Christmas: Truth Revealed
Post by: kiamoy on January 07, 2009, 12:20:01 AM
hmm..interesting.. let me read from page 1.

ngita kog sakit sa ulo for now :D
Title: Re: The Bad Origin of Christmas: Truth Revealed
Post by: ms da binsi on January 07, 2009, 12:25:30 AM
if you need tylenol? let me know....
Title: Re: The Bad Origin of Christmas: Truth Revealed
Post by: kiamoy on January 07, 2009, 12:30:16 AM
wew``taasa..kapoia apas..

sometimes we love intellectual masturbation jud no? ugh..

history created what we are and what we have now.
Title: Re: The Bad Origin of Christmas: Truth Revealed
Post by: grazie7y on January 07, 2009, 12:38:54 AM
bem, i think it's perfectly okay to engage in intellectual masturbation, if that's how we call it, but wala lang unta personal insults.  Stay in or out of topic but don't go over and beyond that.
Title: Re: The Bad Origin of Christmas: Truth Revealed
Post by: kiamoy on January 07, 2009, 12:45:07 AM
i agree te.. pro sometimes... sometimes..

ewy.. hope you all had a merry xmas.

my wish for x-mas was to have Santa's list so that I would know where the naughty boys are. hahahahahhah!!

lighten up everybody!!!
Title: Re: The Bad Origin of Christmas: Truth Revealed
Post by: grazie7y on January 07, 2009, 12:50:07 AM
hahaha bueng man ka bem oi!  sige lang bem, merry christmas is everyday man pod so you'll have more chances to meet some naughty boys!  good luck!  ;D
Title: Re: The Bad Origin of Christmas: Truth Revealed
Post by: glacier_71 on January 07, 2009, 12:52:41 AM
mas maayo gyud ang withdrawal ug tae hisgutan kay di gyud maglalis...hahahahha
Title: Re: The Bad Origin of Christmas: Truth Revealed
Post by: Lorenzo on January 07, 2009, 12:53:50 AM
I stand by my point. And I will not delve into personal insults like some of us here whose pride has been affected.

Title: Re: The Bad Origin of Christmas: Truth Revealed
Post by: Lorenzo on January 07, 2009, 01:09:14 AM

Good message, 'te.

I see your point.

Title: Re: The Bad Origin of Christmas: Truth Revealed
Post by: glacier_71 on January 07, 2009, 01:19:08 AM

PASAKYA KOS IMONG MERCEDES, DA BINS, UNYA IHAPIT KOS PIG-OT KAY MAMAYLE KO...
Title: Re: The Bad Origin of Christmas: Truth Revealed
Post by: ms da binsi on January 07, 2009, 02:23:03 AM
bwahahhahaha!

mashu-ang ko nimo Glace!

lavoo Glace!!!!
Title: Re: The Bad Origin of Christmas: Truth Revealed
Post by: kiamoy on January 07, 2009, 02:24:31 AM
unya te. pahuwamon tamo sa kang Santa lista sa mga naughty boys.. para naa mo pasahero:)
Title: Re: The Bad Origin of Christmas: Truth Revealed
Post by: ms da binsi on January 07, 2009, 02:25:09 AM


i would prefer to say that is an intellectual intercourse!!! kay murag dili sapnot!
hahahhaha
Title: Re: The Bad Origin of Christmas: Truth Revealed
Post by: ms da binsi on January 07, 2009, 02:28:17 AM
Glace ning balik ko ug basa sa imong pig-ot!

di jud nako tuyoon nga mag katawa jud ko!!!

hwahahahahhaaaaaay!
Title: Re: The Bad Origin of Christmas: Truth Revealed
Post by: TOPAC on January 07, 2009, 08:39:11 AM
daghan na pud nadugang sa thread pila ra ka oras ko nawala. i thought nagkagubot na pud mo.

sa didto kos balay, nakahunahuna ko nga murag walay postings kau diri sa gaza bombings. siguro kay mas grabe ang attacks diri, intellectual and hhmmm dare i say personal?

kudos mga sano and sana!!!
Title: Re: The Bad Origin of Christmas: Truth Revealed
Post by: buwadsanga on January 07, 2009, 08:49:46 AM
sana ug sano, ang Dios daghan ug paagi sa pagsukod sa atong pagtuo. He moves in mysterious ways. Sa bad origin of Christmas(very negative word for the true spirit and meaning of Christmas), its a fact but still a product of man's inteligence. But we have to remember that our 2.5lbs brain could impossibly discern the vast ocean of mysteries in this world we live in. science could not even discern what is life or the characteristic of water that turn into liquid in a certain negative temperature.

lets strengthen our faith..... lets still believe Sta. Claus........ this man from the north stands or manifest the spirit of Christmas......... rak en roll palagi my TB friends!
Title: Re: The Bad Origin of Christmas: Truth Revealed
Post by: Lorenzo on January 07, 2009, 08:56:33 AM
I raise my glass of Merlot to that, Buwad!

;)
Title: Re: The Bad Origin of Christmas: Truth Revealed
Post by: buwadsanga on January 07, 2009, 09:00:15 AM
tagay Lor! Peace and Blessings!
Title: Re: The Bad Origin of Christmas: Truth Revealed
Post by: TOPAC on January 07, 2009, 09:01:57 AM
I raise my glass of Rumcoke to that, Buwad! (sundog2 ra ko enzo ha)

Peace na ta oi! (kung ugaling nay uban diha nga wa ma at peace)
Title: Re: The Bad Origin of Christmas: Truth Revealed
Post by: Lorenzo on January 07, 2009, 09:11:14 AM
Peace na ta tanan! Amen to that, Sir Calle.

Taga-i ko bi sa imung rumcoke.

Mo testing lang ko ba. hahahaha

Title: Re: The Bad Origin of Christmas: Truth Revealed
Post by: ms da binsi on January 07, 2009, 10:13:15 AM



Calz, mas grabeh pa diri kay sa Gaza?

hahhahahhaha
Title: Re: The Bad Origin of Christmas: Truth Revealed
Post by: TOPAC on January 07, 2009, 10:33:07 AM

tanduay and coke ra na bro sagulon.
Title: Re: The Bad Origin of Christmas: Truth Revealed
Post by: TOPAC on January 07, 2009, 10:35:15 AM

lagi. tsk tsk tsk

majo pa diha sa injo kay daghan snow!
Title: Re: The Bad Origin of Christmas: Truth Revealed
Post by: ms da binsi on January 07, 2009, 11:16:01 AM
sus nag handom na ko ug summer calz!

ginoo kanus-a pa man to oi!
Title: Re: The Bad Origin of Christmas: Truth Revealed
Post by: TOPAC on January 07, 2009, 11:20:20 AM
ang pinas murag summer from jan to dec. last month, ang pinakabugnaw diri 19 degrees Celsius ra.

ngana jud ming wa katilaw pag snow, mangitag snow, wa kabalo dili lalim mag-antos sa kabugnaw.
Title: Re: The Bad Origin of Christmas: Truth Revealed
Post by: grazie7y on January 07, 2009, 11:52:59 AM

korek ka dyan, calle!  di jud nko ma imagine na di ko kagawas sa akong pultahan kay napuno na ang snow!  One time nag laag ko with my friend didto mi sa Lake Tahoe, grabeh jud kay ang mga sakyanan nadat-ugan na ug snow.  I didn't think that was fun.  Well, fun kon mag patak2x lang ta sa snow or mag skiing but that's about it.
Title: Re: The Bad Origin of Christmas: Truth Revealed
Post by: ms da binsi on January 07, 2009, 01:09:56 PM
Sa California pa ko nag puyo, i can wear my sandals and shirt all year round...

diri kay inig human sa fall, utingkay na jud sa winter clothes kay ug mag langan2x ka,

mokalit ra jud ug snow, mao nga matangkong jud ka sa sulod sa balay...

replacing clothes in  my closet every winter is what i learned here...

dili sajun oi! im really longing to smell the early morning breeze from my bedroom window kay mangabre man jud ko kanunay basta summer...

 :-[
Title: Re: The Bad Origin of Christmas: Truth Revealed
Post by: buwadsanga on January 07, 2009, 01:53:01 PM
let it snow, let it snow, let it snow! miss dabz! hehehehe!

sa pinas like in luzon which is located north from bohol mas tugnaw dire siguro compared to central visayas down to mndanao. very pleasant ang weather ngaun murag naa kas ircon infact mag init mig tubig ug maligo sa buntag kay ngigkig jud kas bugnawng tubig. pero pag dating sa summer Jesus! mura jud kag gi tusta napud!
Title: Re: The Bad Origin of Christmas: Truth Revealed
Post by: ms da binsi on January 07, 2009, 02:41:38 PM
yeah, naka experience ko sa Bagiou sa una Wad, tugnaw man didto...

ilang shower pwerte jud tugnawa...

i like the cold pero kanang dili binuwad! aw binuwan diay!!!
Title: Re: The Bad Origin of Christmas: Truth Revealed
Post by: grazie7y on January 07, 2009, 02:46:15 PM
Tugnaw bitaw kaayo sa Baguio ba?  One time, gipa anha nko akong mga pobreng ginikanan sa Manila unya akong gidala sa Baguio. We were also with my cousin and my elder sister.  Intawon, nag adto na mi sa Cubao bus station midnight daw beh kay puno naman ang bus so we waited for the 3 a.m. trip.  To cut the story shorter  ;), naka abot nami sa Baguio!  Didto mi sa Church which is just a walking distance from the bus station then namahaw dayon mi'g bbq chicken.  Ga hilom lang si Daddy tawon.  Dayon gi libot2x nako sila sa Baguio.  We were planning to stay at least two nights didto.  Daw beh, gi korum mi ni Daddy. Ingon sya, if di mi manguli dayon balik sa Manila, maglisud jud daw mi kay kakuyapon na sya sa ka tugnaw!  Gi ignore ra unta to namo but Daddy said, wa jud ko gabinuang.  Hala kay luspad naman diay kaayo si Daddy.  Sakit diay ijang rayuma sa ka tugnaw! hahaha  Uli dayon oi! ;D
Title: Re: The Bad Origin of Christmas: Truth Revealed
Post by: TOPAC on January 07, 2009, 04:16:46 PM
a good alternative to bagui now is tagaytay. cool and fresh air. just a few hours drive from manila via slex (sta. rosa exit) or via the usual route, aguinaldo highway.
Title: Re: The Bad Origin of Christmas: Truth Revealed
Post by: kiamoy on January 07, 2009, 05:02:49 PM
haay salamat.. wala nay away.. o cge cge group hug!!! (hihi)
Title: Re: The Bad Origin of Christmas: Truth Revealed
Post by: glacier_71 on January 08, 2009, 05:30:08 AM
kini, makagakos na sad ko...
Title: Re: The Bad Origin of Christmas: Truth Revealed
Post by: david on January 08, 2009, 05:36:05 AM
maayo bitaw pod ang tagaytay bugnaw pod. fresko jud ang hangin labi na og mag atubang ka sa taal lake
Title: Re: The Bad Origin of Christmas: Truth Revealed
Post by: limbarak on January 08, 2009, 08:00:15 AM
i missed tagaytay, sige mig retreat didto sa una.
Title: Re: The Bad Origin of Christmas: Truth Revealed
Post by: TOPAC on January 08, 2009, 09:06:35 AM

a, hayahayang limbarak. social diay mo bro.
Title: Re: The Bad Origin of Christmas: Truth Revealed
Post by: TOPAC on January 08, 2009, 09:19:39 AM
welcome to tb sa diay!!!
Title: Re: The Bad Origin of Christmas: Truth Revealed
Post by: limbarak on January 08, 2009, 08:44:17 PM
salamat calle. pero, di ko social, na-timing lang tong panahona nga makauban ko og naay oportunidad
Title: Re: The Bad Origin of Christmas: Truth Revealed
Post by: buwadsanga on January 09, 2009, 01:48:31 PM
rock na limbarak! welcome. ug maka adto mog tagaytay. bisan ug mag sigi mog tagay ajaw kalimti ninjo ang ilang public market! pastilang lamia sa ilang bulalo! maka wagtang gyud ug hangover!
Title: Re: The Bad Origin of Christmas: Truth Revealed
Post by: A Layman on January 09, 2009, 01:51:26 PM
Kulang lang sa parking kay perteng daghana mangaon didto. Halos puro naka wheels ang public diha.
Title: Re: The Bad Origin of Christmas: Truth Revealed
Post by: buwadsanga on January 09, 2009, 03:05:03 PM
jugom na lay......
Title: Re: The Bad Origin of Christmas: Truth Revealed
Post by: A Layman on January 09, 2009, 03:42:34 PM
Sige, toss to the wounds that never heals!
Title: Re: The Bad Origin of Christmas: Truth Revealed
Post by: buwadsanga on January 09, 2009, 05:34:04 PM
dili virtual nga tagay. kanang klaro.....
Title: Re: The Bad Origin of Christmas: Truth Revealed
Post by: A Layman on January 09, 2009, 05:52:29 PM
Sige bai, iarrange ni nato. Anus a man kaha?
Title: Re: The Bad Origin of Christmas: Truth Revealed
Post by: buwadsanga on January 09, 2009, 08:01:47 PM
next saturday kay mo adto kos cabanatuan city ron. klaroha kay e email naho o e txt naho ahong address ug tel number. dili nato e post dani kay unjag ma baniog ta!
Title: Re: The Bad Origin of Christmas: Truth Revealed
Post by: A Layman on January 09, 2009, 09:01:39 PM
Ok, just keep in touch!
Title: Re: The Bad Origin of Christmas: Truth Revealed
Post by: ms da binsi on January 09, 2009, 11:27:02 PM


tagai sad ko Wad, kamo-kamo raman sad diha ni A'lie!
Title: Re: The Bad Origin of Christmas: Truth Revealed
Post by: buwadsanga on January 11, 2009, 11:38:05 AM
lay , A Layman - a lie daw, pwede naman ally pud hehehe! ato ning klarohon kay atong imbitahon si miss dabs. uhaw na pud kaajo ni!
Title: Re: The Bad Origin of Christmas: Truth Revealed
Post by: ms da binsi on January 11, 2009, 12:17:17 PM
wa ko uhawa oi! diay daghan diri pero wa lang mi TANDUAY! i dont drink beer so kinahanglan naa jud Tandoli ug mag EB ko ninyo...
Title: Re: The Bad Origin of Christmas: Truth Revealed
Post by: glacier_71 on January 12, 2009, 09:43:21 PM

inum na pod.
Title: Re: The Bad Origin of Christmas: Truth Revealed
Post by: TOPAC on January 13, 2009, 08:31:00 AM
ahak ini. mga liveraid na ko ini
Title: Re: The Bad Origin of Christmas: Truth Revealed
Post by: ms da binsi on January 13, 2009, 09:53:00 AM
hahaha!

sus tua na gi uhaw na jud ko!

mag tagay nalang ko ug ako ra usa oi!
Title: Re: The Bad Origin of Christmas: Truth Revealed
Post by: TOPAC on January 13, 2009, 11:05:35 AM
"lonely tagay just for one" diay ka run mdb.
Title: Re: The Bad Origin of Christmas: Truth Revealed
Post by: buwadsanga on January 13, 2009, 11:40:55 AM
and id like to hide the pain...

sakto ba?
Title: Re: The Bad Origin of Christmas: Truth Revealed
Post by: TOPAC on January 13, 2009, 12:20:55 PM
ambot buwad, adto ra ko taman anang kantaha. dili man na panahon naho. LOL

mdb is not in any state of pain.

sya lang painakagusgan mo buhakhak sa tb ug painakapalahubog sa mga baje nato.
Title: Re: The Bad Origin of Christmas: Truth Revealed
Post by: buwadsanga on January 13, 2009, 12:32:30 PM
pinaka ka gwapa pud! honestly...
Title: Re: The Bad Origin of Christmas: Truth Revealed
Post by: ms da binsi on January 13, 2009, 02:03:55 PM
ai ning kubol akong atay!hahaha

yeah wa ko kabalik dajun kay nag laga pa ko ug kamunggay pawa sa hubog!
Title: Re: The Bad Origin of Christmas: Truth Revealed
Post by: TOPAC on January 13, 2009, 02:22:20 PM
sa pabugnawa ang kamungay mdb ha kay luod. makasuka nuon ka. mao na nahitabo nako last new year. wa pa ko makontento sa usang tasang sabaw sa kamungay, nanungkab pa ko bugnaw na man diay ang kamungay, suka lagi. sayang jamo ang don enrique.
Title: Re: The Bad Origin of Christmas: Truth Revealed
Post by: ms da binsi on January 13, 2009, 04:33:45 PM
hahahaha

mirisi!

hahaha
Title: Re: The Bad Origin of Christmas: Truth Revealed
Post by: udtohan on January 13, 2009, 04:34:27 PM
karun pa ko kabasa ani... but the truth is the Christmas celebration is based sa pagan celebration. That's it.
Title: Re: The Bad Origin of Christmas: Truth Revealed
Post by: ms da binsi on January 13, 2009, 04:36:15 PM
absenot man gud ka daghan unta kag ikatampo ani na bibo raba ni karizo!
Title: Re: The Bad Origin of Christmas: Truth Revealed
Post by: udtohan on January 13, 2009, 04:38:16 PM
hahaha mao jud! tanang symbols and traditions pagan-based ... giilisdan nalang para dali ra sila maconvert.
Title: Re: The Bad Origin of Christmas: Truth Revealed
Post by: TOPAC on January 13, 2009, 04:39:18 PM
mao jud. mao nay mahitabo sa mga absenot. dili kaapas sa mga lessons. majo untag nibasa pud sa thread. lol

peace el mundo and happy new year!
Title: Re: The Bad Origin of Christmas: Truth Revealed
Post by: udtohan on January 13, 2009, 04:39:56 PM
hahaha sagdi lang og absenot kay makaapas man sa lesson.
Title: Re: The Bad Origin of Christmas: Truth Revealed
Post by: -<GEC348>- on January 13, 2009, 04:45:41 PM


True, is it true you have Bared yourself?


Title: Re: The Bad Origin of Christmas: Truth Revealed
Post by: TOPAC on January 13, 2009, 04:58:32 PM
kana bitaw liwas, tapos sa patay, wa man na sa bible.

i THINK (ahong icapital kay basin awayun ko kay kabout-buot ko) naa na nga mga tradition sa mga pinoy before the arrival of magellan nya gi-integrate na lang sa catholicism.
Title: Re: The Bad Origin of Christmas: Truth Revealed
Post by: glacier_71 on January 23, 2009, 04:20:57 AM
mao jud. mao ra gud pog og manguyab, calle, wa mas bibliya ning manghatag cholalet. giingon ra man LOVE ONE ANOTHER...
Title: Re: The Bad Origin of Christmas: Truth Revealed
Post by: Lorenzo on January 23, 2009, 04:35:28 AM

This is very true.

Different methods in spreading the Word of God to different peoples at the time of the introduction of Christianity.

This has been central to discussion in Christian Conversion Discourse by Christian Theologians.

Title: Re: The Bad Origin of Christmas: Truth Revealed
Post by: glacier_71 on January 23, 2009, 04:39:56 AM
it has to be. pakamatyan pa jud na.
Title: Re: The Bad Origin of Christmas: Truth Revealed
Post by: Lorenzo on January 23, 2009, 09:10:50 AM
When the Apostles were touched by the Holy Spirit in Pentecost, and were filled with conviction to spread the faith, they applied reason and justice in preaching their word. Apostle John as well as Simon Peter (The Rock) went to Rome to preach the word.

Did they condone radical revolution or did they preach the faith in ways to be accepted in that particular society? They did the latter.

Apostle John, preached to slaves, preached in the games, preached in the streets of Rome. Peter, The Blessed who Holds the Keys to the Gates of Heaven, preached in the catacombs of Rome. They preached in Latin, the lingua franca of the Romans.

Though their manner of ministry changed to suite the city, their conviction and faith were undaunted.

When John was condemned to death by Nero, he was brought to the Colosseum in Rome and was placed in a pot of boiling oil. Do you know what John did? While he was led to the pot of oil, he preached the WORD to the Romans in Latin. His eyes and words were affixed to Christ's word and promise. And do you know what happened? Miraculously, John did not die in the pot of boiling oil.

They took him out of the pot of oil, and ye continued to preach and minister. So much that the entire Roman Colloseum converted to Christianity on the spot. Note that he was not speaking to the audience in Aramaic (the language of Jesus), but in Latin.

The miracle of Conversion into Christianity did not come through forced conversion by the sword, but by the appliance and molding local culture to accept the Word of Christianity--to bring comprehension of THE WORD to the locals, who did not know Christ prior.

Per se the Adoration of the Blessed Santo Nino, the Blessed Lady of Guadalupe in Mexico etc is what bridges the indigenous culture to the greater understanding Umbrella--that is The Holy Roman Catholic Church.

And by the Grace of God, conversion was quick and superfluous. In full Communion with Christ, by Authority of His Holy and One Church.


In His Name,
Title: Re: The Bad Origin of Christmas: Truth Revealed
Post by: glacier_71 on January 23, 2009, 09:22:22 AM
ang Pulong (logos) buhi man jud. mopahaum man jud kini sa mga tawo ug panahon...in season and out of season (2Tim4:2)...
Title: Re: The Bad Origin of Christmas: Truth Revealed
Post by: Lorenzo on January 23, 2009, 09:33:01 AM
Yes, Glacier. These festivals either they be Sinulog, Fiesta de Virgen de Guadalupe (In Mexico), Fiesta de La Nino Jesu Cristo (In Spain) or etc, are but visuals. A visual cortex for us in the present--of how the FAITH was spread in the past, as not everyone in the past was literate or knew how to read the bible, which was written in Latin.

The Christian Faith, for the longest time, was spread through word of Mouth. Through the Ministry of the ONE and HOLY Roman Catholic Church.

That is why Tradition, for the Catholic, is equivalent and supplementary to the Written Scriptural Word. As even BEFORE the Bible was compiled by the Holy Roman Catholic Church (And yes, it was the Catholic Church that compiled the Holy Bible), it was tradition by mouth and by physical means that proliferated the faith.

Everything in Catholic Ministry, be it the Adoration of the Gospel, The Crucifix, The proliferation and witness to the Sacraments, are but part of that Tradition. Which has been handed down from generation to generation, since the time of the first Christians who heard from the Apostles themselves. Thus, it is why our traditions, are One and APOSTOLIC.

Though the Church be in different corners of the world, the unifying feature is its Tradition and Scriptural Word.


We were all sinners before the light and word of God came to us, the Church teaches that, BUT, by Grace and by Grace alone--through the ministry of the Church--which helps facilitates the understanding of the promises of Christ and by the Word of Scripture--it is then and only then are we saved.

Everyone has a bad past, but our present and future have not come yet.

Title: Re: The Bad Origin of Christmas: Truth Revealed
Post by: glacier_71 on January 23, 2009, 09:38:03 AM
korek. mao ni ang misteryo sa Buhing Pulong, enzo, dili matiti ang iyang kahulugan ug paghubad niini sa adlaw-adlaw nga kinabuhi. matag hitabo ug kaagi, aduna gyud Kini ikatubag ug ikapakita nga kamaotuoran sa mga pangutana nga dili usahay masabot sa tawo. pila na kaseglo nga gigamit ang Pulong, hangtud karon epektibo gihapon.
Title: Re: The Bad Origin of Christmas: Truth Revealed
Post by: TOPAC on January 23, 2009, 01:51:07 PM
Amen.
Title: Re: The Bad Origin of Christmas: Truth Revealed
Post by: buwadsanga on January 23, 2009, 05:47:09 PM
amen.....
Title: Re: The Bad Origin of Christmas: Truth Revealed
Post by: ayessa on January 23, 2009, 05:48:03 PM
Kini nga thread magpadayun hangtud sunod pasko.
Title: Re: The Bad Origin of Christmas: Truth Revealed
Post by: buwadsanga on January 23, 2009, 05:49:44 PM
sa amo sa bohol, adlaw2x pasko day.
Title: Re: The Bad Origin of Christmas: Truth Revealed
Post by: ayessa on January 23, 2009, 06:00:35 PM
taga bohol ko. dili man pasko didto taga adlaw. lami lang imaginon.
Title: Re: The Bad Origin of Christmas: Truth Revealed
Post by: buwadsanga on January 23, 2009, 06:02:09 PM
heheheh, sakto ka aye,  adlaw adlaw sa imagination parang sex..... hehehehe! (sorry for my bad word)
Title: Re: The Bad Origin of Christmas: Truth Revealed
Post by: ayessa on January 23, 2009, 06:09:09 PM
buwadsanga,

lahi man ning mag imagine kag sex kung gigutom ka di ba?.  pero gani, ing daghan gihapun ang population kay sigeg imagine.
Title: Re: The Bad Origin of Christmas: Truth Revealed
Post by: buwadsanga on January 23, 2009, 06:11:51 PM
hahaha gumikas gutom aye? mao ngi mi burot ang population? e ejacs in a handy way nalang nila ma improve pa ang quality ng sperm. 
Title: Re: The Bad Origin of Christmas: Truth Revealed
Post by: ayessa on January 23, 2009, 06:22:53 PM
ang mga taga bohol ganahan muhigop ug sabaw unya kinilaw. mao tungod sa ka pobre, imaginon nalang. Didto ra.. ing burot  inoon ang population
Title: Re: The Bad Origin of Christmas: Truth Revealed
Post by: buwadsanga on January 23, 2009, 06:24:58 PM
grabe ka naman dili ana kapobrehon ang bol-anon. kay bisag kawayan pwede sabwon uy.
Title: Re: The Bad Origin of Christmas: Truth Revealed
Post by: ayessa on January 23, 2009, 06:27:30 PM
utanon man gani ang kapayas, lubi ug uban pa..   pero hinay hinay madam-ag unya.. heheh mayabu ang utan
Title: Re: The Bad Origin of Christmas: Truth Revealed
Post by: buwadsanga on January 23, 2009, 06:28:38 PM
taga dis-a mankas bohol day nga murag suhito mankas panginabuhi sa atong isla..
Title: Re: The Bad Origin of Christmas: Truth Revealed
Post by: ayessa on January 23, 2009, 06:32:28 PM
akong inahan guindulman akong amahan tagbilaran.  taga tagbilaran ko.
Title: Re: The Bad Origin of Christmas: Truth Revealed
Post by: buwadsanga on January 23, 2009, 06:37:10 PM
unja ngano man tawon ng mura mag taga israel imong avatar. jati, naa ba diay judeo sa tagbilaran?

ako taga jagna siguro naka ari kas amo ni palit ug kalamay...
Title: Re: The Bad Origin of Christmas: Truth Revealed
Post by: ayessa on January 23, 2009, 06:40:33 PM
silingan ang guindulman ug jagna.
Title: Re: The Bad Origin of Christmas: Truth Revealed
Post by: buwadsanga on January 23, 2009, 06:42:54 PM
labihan, ang taliwa nga lungsod duero. sigi kog anha saunas engineering ditrict kay engineer kono ko.
Title: Re: The Bad Origin of Christmas: Truth Revealed
Post by: Lorenzo on January 24, 2009, 01:08:03 PM

This is the beauty of faith. Faith does not need explanation, it just is.
The fact that the beauty of science only adds to the mystique and brilliance of the Lord--and solidifies one's faith.

I submit, The Lord works in mysterious ways. And His ways are above our knowing.

Title: Re: The Bad Origin of Christmas: Truth Revealed
Post by: glacier_71 on January 24, 2009, 01:31:17 PM

lol..dahon gani sa lemonsito, bay buwad, pwede isagol sa suka aron lang manimaho para appetizer...
Title: Re: The Bad Origin of Christmas: Truth Revealed
Post by: buwadsanga on January 24, 2009, 01:36:38 PM
das rayt glacie, mao nay gitawag nga boholano ingenuity. o diba inig tuslob sa suka simhot dretso sa panit sa limonsito.
Title: Re: The Bad Origin of Christmas: Truth Revealed
Post by: glacier_71 on January 24, 2009, 01:48:28 PM

ako nang kasinatian sa estudyante pa ko, buwad, bisag panit sa lemonsito na lang unta to, apan wa jud. gamitan na lang og dahon.
Title: Re: The Bad Origin of Christmas: Truth Revealed
Post by: TOPAC on January 26, 2009, 09:19:22 AM
sige, padugang dugang lang ning ako para taman Xmas 2009 ni nga thread. nanghipos na ba mo sa injong xmas tree?
Title: Re: The Bad Origin of Christmas: Truth Revealed
Post by: glacier_71 on January 26, 2009, 10:23:27 AM

dia. gabarog pa nga mapasigarbohon ang akong xtmas tree...
Title: Re: The Bad Origin of Christmas: Truth Revealed
Post by: TOPAC on January 26, 2009, 10:27:47 AM
pang candelaria glacier!
Title: Re: The Bad Origin of Christmas: Truth Revealed
Post by: glacier_71 on January 26, 2009, 11:35:29 AM

calle, ako ning bitayan og mga hearts, red lips, cupids, broken hearts, etc... trying to make Valentine's Tree. LOL...
Title: Re: The Bad Origin of Christmas: Truth Revealed
Post by: TOPAC on January 26, 2009, 01:01:38 PM
that's quite interesting and very innovative glacier!

basin maawardan pa ka anang imung invention.
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