Author Topic: Should Roman Catholic Priest Allowed To GEt Married? (Please Help for debate)  (Read 35083 times)

sab_sad

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please help us to defend our debate for tomorrows activities.. Bali we are in affirmative side..We are in favor na mag-minyo ang Roman Catholic Priest. Help me know the corresponding reference and verses in bible kay Im not familiar kaU.. thanks

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hofelina

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I am contra, one of our topics in Ateneo de Davao University religion class was celibacy.  It is right and proper that the priest and those serving this vocation stays celibate because...,
serving God means complete whole being, soul and body, I have to hurry to work, you will hear more from me folks!

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sab_sad

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madam gingah dli gyud maopen page 1 lng the rest dli nko ka open...wla sa page 1 ang answer sa akoh gi ask..if posble pwdi u ma repost here?thanks

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Help me know the corresponding reference and verses in bible kay Im not familiar kaU.. thanks

check this:
(Jn 3:29, Rev 18:23, 19:7, 21:9, 21:17)


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Macky Ferniz

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It does not necessarily mean that to serve God wholeheartedly is to become celibate. But based on real facts, it is humanly impossible to perform the task as a priest if he is having a family. I will give you an example: If there is a female choir who needs to practice at early dawn, would the wife allow her husband if she is a jealous type?

Another example is the priest who became a martyr in East Timor. At the time of the seige, any married human being would have second thoughts of running for the sake of his family instead of choosing to die as a martyr.

That's why it is a personal vow for only one reason and that is to physically serve the church full time.

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Lorenzo

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It is possible for a man who is Roman Catholic to join Holy Orders and still retain his marriage and fatherhood (that is if he has a family). This is called Deaconship.

I have a very good friend who is an attorney and at the same time a Deacon at our local Catholic Church  that I attend back home.



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Lorenzo

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This is the robe of a Deacon of the Church:



The Role of the Deacon:

The ministry of the deacon in the Roman Catholic Church is described as one of service in three areas: the Word, the Liturgy and Charity. The deacon's ministry of the Word includes proclaiming the Gospel at the Eucharist, preaching and teaching. His ministry at the Altar includes various parts of the Mass proper to the deacon, including being the proper minister of the cup. The ministry of charity involves service to the poor and marginalized and working with parishioners to help them become more involved in such ministry. As clerics, they are required to recite the Liturgy of the Hours. Deacons can administer the sacrament of Baptism and serve as the church's witness at the sacrament of Holy Matrimony, which the bride and groom administer to each other. Deacons may preside at funerals, various services such as Benediction of the Blessed Sacrament and they may give blessings. They cannot hear confession and give absolution, anoint the sick, or say Mass.

At Mass, the deacon is the ordinary minister of the proclamation of the Gospel (in fact, a priest, bishop, or even the Pope should not proclaim the Gospel if a deacon is present) and of Holy Communion (primarily, of the Precious Blood). Deacons have the faculty to preach the homily by right of their ordination unless the priest presider retains that ministry to himself at any particular Mass.

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Macky Ferniz

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How about THE LAST MARRIED POPE?

He was Adrian II (867-872). Actually he was married before he ascended the papal throne, but after being elected pontiff, he refused to adopt celibacy or renounce his family. His wife, Stephania, and their daughter lived in the Lateran Palace with him for a short time. Later, one of his chief rivals abducted his daughter and married her by force. Many previous popes had been happily married. In fact, Pope Hormisdas (514-523) was the proud father of Pope Silverius (536-538). Although Adrian (or Hadrian, as he is sometimes called) was the last to marry, subsequent popes fathered numerous children.

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ok lang mamenyo ang pari basta sa babae lang mamenyo!

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Lorenzo

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How about THE LAST MARRIED POPE?

He was Adrian II (867-872). Actually he was married before he ascended the papal throne, but after being elected pontiff, he refused to adopt celibacy or renounce his family. His wife, Stephania, and their daughter lived in the Lateran Palace with him for a short time. Later, one of his chief rivals abducted his daughter and married her by force. Many previous popes had been happily married. In fact, Pope Hormisdas (514-523) was the proud father of Pope Silverius (536-538). Although Adrian (or Hadrian, as he is sometimes called) was the last to marry, subsequent popes fathered numerous children.

This is a very good point, Mr. Ferniz.

And I think these were the contributions to the abuse of power of the Catholic Church before the Great Reformation in the late 16th century. Previous to the 100 Years War.

Prior to the Great Reformation, there were abuses committed by members of the Holy Roman Catholic Church. By the Grace of God, reforms were augmented for the benefit of the Living Church and for the People and Christians that demanded to hear the Word of God.



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Moyhua

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Kung pwede na ma minyo ang pare, pwede ba kaha sila makasal sa catholic church?

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Lorenzo

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First,

It would be impossible for this to happen because the duties of the Priest is paramount, and must not be hindered with the details that concerns the laity.

To be called and into the Royal Priesthood of the Holy Roman Catholic Church is not an everyday occurence, and this calling is the highest of all callings.

This calling requires one to forgoe all measures of biological production. Total Sacrifice.
A priest does not marry a woman because a priest is married to Christ's Word. And to Christ Alone.

If you are a Roman Catholic and you wish to retain your relationship and yet at the same time want to have a role in the Church, one can become a Deacon of the Church (if one is a man). One can also play a role in reading the Gospel as well as being Eucharistic Minister and or a member of the Chorus.

If you want to minister to the Church, one can also be a Catholic Minister in Catholic Biblical Studies. As well as a Youth Minister.



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buwadsanga

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is a deacon a priest? dili siguro murag sipyat manka bai lor.

Deacon - A cleric ranking just below a priest in Roman Catholic churches

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Anyone in the Christian Church should be able to get married to one person of the opposite sex..

Celebacy isn't a requirement, it's a choice of what they decide to give up. It's not a sin, it's a manmade requirement. It does more harm than good.


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Lorenzo

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Anyone in the Christian Church should be able to get married to one person of the opposite sex..

Celebacy isn't a requirement, it's a choice of what they decide to give up. It's not a sin, it's a manmade requirement. It does more harm than good.


That is true. But other Christian Denominations are protestants. They have 'Protested' against the virtues and the sanctity of the Holy Roman Catholic Church. Differences in Scriptural Teachings as well as in the Traditions enancted have provided the foundation of the Protesting against the Holy Living Churches.

Yes, a Baptist Minister can marry a woman. A Luthern Minister can marry. A Presbyterian can marry. An Anglican can marry and can even allow a woman to be a priest.

But this is not so in the Holy Roman Catholic Church. You want to remain your gifts as a Layperson, one should continue his or her duty to God as a faithful Christian Catholic. Continue your duties to your family, and to continue to read Scripture and uphold the Sacraments. That is your duty as a Layperson.

The Royal Priesthood are reserved for those who would sacrifice their body to the teachings of Christ. A priest, by virtue of his calling, IS married. He is Married to Christ. And to Christ Alone.



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Lorenzo

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is a deacon a priest? dili siguro murag sipyat manka bai lor.

Deacon - A cleric ranking just below a priest in Roman Catholic churches

Buwad,

A deacon of the Church is not a priest. However, has some of the authority that a priest has. The Deacon is a Layperson who has committed himself to Holy Orders. So let us say that a married man, who has children and has a profession outside of the church is compelled to join Holy Orders by the virtue of his faith and his zeal to Christ and to the teachings of the Only Apostolic Church, The Holy Roman Catholic Church, then he can be ordained a Deacon.

As a deacon, you are able to read the Gospel in mass, assist the Priest in the sanctification of the Eucharist, the baptism of the faithful. The role of the deacon is to assist in mass and to offer the Word.

I know a deacon in my local church who is a Civil Trial Lawyer by profession, who is married and has his own children and grandchildren. He is an attorney of the law outside of religious life, but when he is called to assist in mass--as in the Sabbath--and fulfills his duties.

God Bless,

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Moyhua

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A catholic priest should not be allowed to get married. If he said Yes to God, he cannot say yes to other.

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Macky Ferniz

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Calm down everyone. Don't get too serious.

I have a joke.

Now, celebacy can be easy as 123. Thanks to these two inventions: "Internet and Soap".

Am I talking silly celebacy?

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Lorenzo

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When I attended the Catholic Collegiate Conference some 2 years ago with my friends and with our Catholic Chaplain in Allegheny College--we went to Erie, Pennsylvania to join some other hundreds of American College Catholics.

We discussed multiple topics, namely:
1) The Re-evangelization of Roman Catholics--and the Youth
2) Understanding the basis of Faith in Tradition and Scripture
3) The similarities with other Christian Denominations --and differences--and how to build strong friendships and bridges with them

4) The Calling of Holy Orders per se ACCEPTANCE of the Calling God has given us.

Most of us in the conference were male, around the age of 20 to 30. And our accompanying priests shared with us the inspiring words to accept the Calling of God to the royal priesthood.

I did meet a good friend there, a very good friend by the name of Cody. When I met him I was only 21 and he was still 19 and already a 2nd year junior seminarian. I have so much respect for him and inspired by him, as well as the calling that he has CHOSEN to accept. Which is into the ROYAL PRIESTHOOD of the Roman Catholic Church.

He has chosen to accept the calling, which God has given to all men. I still maintain my friendship with Cody ans he is already a senior seminarian now. I do pray for men like him here in the 'States and around the world who have chosen to choose to accept the calling of Christ. To minister to His Living Church.

I pray for all our seminarians, all our priests and for more men to come to join the priesthood. In the name of Our Lord, Jesus Christ, Who is God Blessed Forever.




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Wow Dodong you lost weight!!!! how did you do it dear? Or did you really lost some wieght/size? or pwerte lang nimong hiyak??


PS, you really look good!

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Not that much, 'te. I just made changes in my habits.

a) Limiting my intake of red meat
b) I opt to bike to school instead of driving
c) I drink green tea alot; no more coffee and no more caffeinated drinks
d) Lack of sleep, lol.

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aira_galope

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Not that much, 'te. I just made changes in my habits.

a) Limiting my intake of red meat
b) I opt to bike to school instead of driving
c) I drink green tea alot; no more coffee and no more caffeinated drinks
d) Lack of sleep, lol.
good new habits Doc.! ;)

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aira_galope

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Roman Catholic priests should not be allowed to be married. They are to be Christ's earthly representatives, to live as He did, and that cannot be done with a wife in tow. When a priest takes his vows, he consecrates his life completely to God and forsakes all earthly attachments. A man cannot serve two masters, and it would be far too easy to follow a wife's wishes over God's.



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Lorenzo

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The beauty of the Seminary is that it gives a man to study scripture as well as to complete the life that Christ has called them into. 4 years as a junior seminarian and then another 4 years in senior seminary. There is time for one to contemplate as well as to learn the ways of the royal priesthood in constitution with tradition and scriptural teachings.

So if there is a change in vows, then one can release his vows and to proceed into a life of Layman-ship.

I once considered the priesthood in my college years. Attending catholic retreats as well as talking with catholic priests and seminarians allowed me to understand the responsibilities of a priest when one adorns the priestly vestiges to Minister and to Teach and to Feed Christ's Flock. In Christ's Apostolic Church that he himself told to St. Peter, "Go and Feed My Sheep".

The responsibilities of Priesthood is heavy, as one is naturally fighting his human instincts. Prayer and Solititude in benediction of the Sacred Sacraments and Professing of the Word is what strengthens them in their ways. Pray for our Priests. That they continue to bear the cross as Christ did and to continue to preach His word to the dismal places of this world. A light unto the world.

In the end that is why I did not proceed into the seminary. It is sacrifice. Total sacrifice. And no ordinary man are called into it; it is the highest of all callings, in my honest opinion. Pray for our seminarians; the junior seminarians, the senior seminarians, for the consecration of new priests and for most of all for our priests.



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Lorenzo

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Lord Jesus, we your people pray to You for our priests. You have given them to us for OUR needs. We pray for them in THEIR needs.

We know that You have made them priests in the likeness of your own priesthood. You have consecrated them, set them aside, annointed them, filled them with the Holy Spirit, appointed them to teach, to preach, to minister, to console, to forgive, and to feed us with Your Body and Blood.

Yet we know, too, that they are one with us and share our human weaknesses. We know too that they are tempted to sin and discouragement as are we, needing to be ministered to, as do we, to be consoled and forgiven, as do we. Indeed, we thank You for choosing them from among us, so that they understand us as we understand them, suffer with us and rejoice with us, worry with us and trust with us, share our beings, our lives, our faith.

We ask that You give them this day the gift You gave Your chosen ones on the way to Emmaus: Your presence in their hearts, Your holiness in their souls, Your joy in their spirits. And let them see You face to face in the breaking of the Eucharistic bread.

We pray to You, O Lord, through Mary the mother of all priests, for Your priests and for ours.


Amen

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LEOGIRL

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For me it is not good that priest will marry.  They are call to this mission to serve God and the church to the fullest.  How could he serve his best kung may pamilya sya, mabahin iyang attention...
 

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This question is absurd because it's a fact Catholic priest cannot marry. What is the particular reason for pushing this point? is it just for the sake of getting married? Or is it in relevance to His ministry? Priesthood is not a state. it is a ministry. service. if so, does his getting married inhibit/lessen his ability to minister people? i think the debate lies here.

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Absolutely. And that is the point. Marriage does lessen his ability to minister. And that is the point.


This idea of a celibate clergy came from the Jews, John the Baptist, Jesus, and the Apostle Paul.

The Jews. The Talmud argues that a person whose “soul is bound up with the Torah and is constantly occupied with it” may remain celibate (Maimonides, Laws of Marriage 15.3). For example, Yahweh ordered the prophet Jeremiah not to marry (Jeremiah 16:1-4). Moreover, the Essenes was a group that was active in Jesus’ time that practiced celibacy and thought by most scholars to be the authors of the Dead Sea Scrolls.

Additionally, a Priest in the Roman Catholic Church is an emulation of Christ Jesus. A Shepard of Christ's Anointed Church. Did Christ Jesus get married? Of course not. So the same shall be for Priests in his Anointed and Established Church, the Roman Catholic Church.

The Apostle Paul is explicit about his celibacy (see 1 Cor. 7). There is also evidence in the gospel of Matthew for the practice of celibacy among at least some early Christians, in the famous passage about becoming “eunuchs for the sake of the kingdom of heaven” (Matt. 19:12).

Matthew 6:24 is definite on this, "No one can serve two masters, because either he will hate one and love the other, or be loyal to one and despise the other."
As a Priest, you serve and are anointed in Christ. You are His. You cannot serve your wife and children and at the same time minister to the Church. Forgo that conclusion.




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do you know that in America (incl. Canada), some priests of Anglican Church, who are married and with children, moved to Catholic Church (with their wife and kids)? although this situation faces some degree of grievances among Catholic clergy, maybe raises eyebrows among some conservative parishioners and poses some issues to Rome, these ex-Anglican priests serve or minister the people no any lesser than the Catholic clergy. Wives and children are not masters; they are partners. We are not dealing here with doctrine, but ministry.

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There were study that there is highest rate of divorce among protestant  minister.Main reason for high rate divorce is lack of time on the wife ang the family.Protestant minister tend to spend more time counceling on other couples problem and some other church activity.Yes you can't serve two master as same time.


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Lorenzo

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do you know that in America (incl. Canada), some priests of Anglican Church, who are married and with children, moved to Catholic Church (with their wife and kids)? although this situation faces some degree of grievances among Catholic clergy, maybe raises eyebrows among some conservative parishioners and poses some issues to Rome, these ex-Anglican priests serve or minister the people no any lesser than the Catholic clergy. Wives and children are not masters; they are partners. We are not dealing here with doctrine, but ministry.

We are dealing with both doctrine and ministry. As ministry affects doctrine, and vice versa.

To preach the Word of God, completely and unabated, one must focus fully on Christ. Mind and Body.

This is manifest in the Holy Roman Catholic Church. The anointed Church of Jesus Christ. The very rock the he had established in Apostle Peter.

One cannot serve two masters.

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Lorenzo

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do you know that in America (incl. Canada), some priests of Anglican Church, who are married and with children, moved to Catholic Church (with their wife and kids)? although this situation faces some degree of grievances among Catholic clergy, maybe raises eyebrows among some conservative parishioners and poses some issues to Rome, these ex-Anglican priests serve or minister the people no any lesser than the Catholic clergy. Wives and children are not masters; they are partners. We are not dealing here with doctrine, but ministry.

Christ Jesus did not marry. The Saviour did not marry. A priest, who is made in the image of Christ, upon entering the Royal Priesthood, is enrobed by the Holy Spirit. As Christ Jesus was the Sheppard, so too, is the priest.

He teaches, as Christ does. He forgives in the Name of Christ, He baptizes in the Name of Christ, He absolves in the Name of Christ. He provides in the Name of Christ. He prepares the Body and Blood of Christ, as Christ did when he was in Earth, in bodily form.

We are dealing with complete adoration of Christ Jesus. Christ Jesus, did not marry, nor did Saint John the Baptist. Nor did Apostle Paul.



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soon-to-be-wives in the Eatern Catholics whose priests are allowed to marry are included  in the formation with their soon-to-be-husbands. i think they are happy.

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You are arguing with extramedullary examples, Glacier, though I credit you.

There was a great schism between the Western and Universal Roman Catholic Church with the Primacy of the East in such a way that was influenced by the Imperial disposition of Constantinople to monopolize Imperial Authority and Imperial Religion.

It was pride, ultimately, of the Eastern Roman Empire (Constantinole) that forgoed its oaths to the early church fathers, and its apostacy from the Roman Catholic Church. It branched from the true church teachings. History has not judged Constantinople favorably. As it was conquored the Muslim Turks in 1451, and its Primacy was moved continuously, moving to Bulgaria, then to Kiev in Ukraine, then even to Moscow Russia. There is no singular religious body in Eastern Orthodoxy, after its schism with Rome. Simply because the East dropped its recognition of Apostolic Primacy, that was in the Pope.

The presence of 'Eastern Catholics' and or 'Greek Catholics' is a recent phenomenon, that we see, which is an attempt of the East to reunify and re-integrate with the Western Roman Catholic Church.

Additionally, there are extradordinary clauses for Eastern Catholic Priests because Eastern Orthodox priests are allowed to marry. The main difference here is that eastern orthodox does not recognize the primacy of the Holy Father, the Pope of the Holy Roman Catholic Church.

So, what we see, in the development of 'Eastern Catholicism' is the mingling of Eastern Orthodox tradition with Catholic Tradition.

It is a recent phenomenon that has occured, Thank the Lord Jesus Christ, that has allowed the development of reunification between Catholics and Orthodox.

Traditionally, and gospel-wise, Catholic teachings are similar to Orthodoxy.

Pragmatics, my dear, it was pragmatics that led to the schism.

Praise be to God Almighty in Heaven, that there is unison in His Church and bridging of brothers.

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Eventually, when the Eastern Catholic Rite is fully augmented into the Body of Christ, these extrajudiciary rights for Eastern Catholics to marry will eventually abate.



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fdaray

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BISHOPS, ELDERS AND DEACONS MUST BE HUSBANDS OF ONE WIFE
 
  If deacons, elders and bishops from non Catholic churches can be a husband of one wife, why priests
are not allowed to be husbands  of one wife? This is Biblical.


The Bible says in 1Timothy 3:2 that bishops and elders should be "husband of one wife". So we see that monogamy is a holier way and spiritual leaders should be exemplary in this. Polygamy thus is the permissive and not the perfect will of God.

Taken that the translation of the passage regarding bishops, elders and deacons having only one wife is right, it does imply that it is acceptable in the scriptures for other men in the congregation to be polygamous. When something is not the perfect will of God for a particular person, but it is also not sinful and thus permitted by God, it becomes the permissive will of God. God will never accept anything sinful to be permissible. Thus if something is permissible, it cannot be sinful. Polygamy thus cannot be considered sinful. Just like monogamy and celibacy, polygamy may be God's permissive will for some while it may be the perfect will of God for others. Each will have to seek God for what is specific for his life. If polygamy is sinful, then the Bible would, as with other sins, have constantly admonish and remind all men to be strictly monogamous, but the warning against polygamy is never addressed anywhere in the Scriptures. 

Now, further examination of the contextual understanding of this verse tells us that the instructions given in this particular passage were very cultural in context. Paul, in the same epistle, said in 1Tim 2:9-12 that women should not have braided hair or be adorned with gold, pearls nor costly clothing. He also said that women are not permitted to teach. We see that these are all acceptable today and even much more. Today, we have God-anointed, God-vindicated women teachers, senior pastors, prophets, missionaries and renowned preachers. This passage was a part of Paul’s personal letter to advise the young minister Timothy, his protege and pastor who was faced with all sorts of pressures, conflicts, and challenges from the church and the surrounding culture. The emphasis of the passage was a guideline, not strict qualifications for the appointment of faithful and responsible leaders who should be capable of running their own household well. He also said that their children must be in submission with all reverence. We cannot penalize a spiritual man of service just because he has delinquent children. Samuel had children who took bribes, but God did not disqualify him from service. It was evil men who took occasion to fault him. Moreover, if one is to stick to the "non-compromising" stand of husband of one wife, then he should also disqualify the countless anointed male pastors who are single, whether still unmarried or widowed or divorced and all female pastors. Even Apostle Paul would be disqualified.

I would venture to emphasize that we would have to use the instructions as a guide only. Rigid adherence to this entire passage without using an intelligent discernment of cultural and contextual application can be disastrous. It would mean:

Women are not allowed to have hair-dos nor wear gold, pearl or costly clothing, and if they so do, they would have to be considered improper.
Countless anointed women who are called to be pastors, teachers and leaders would have to be taken down from serving God.
Even unmarried single men would have to be removed from the position of a pastor, elder or deacon. Even Jesus, and perhaps Paul and some apostles would not be qualified.
Also, a man who has problematic children would be disqualified, so would the prophet Samuel if he lives today.
If a person is not actively hospitable, he would also be disqualified.
If he does not have a good standing with the world because he had committed some crimes before, he also stands no chance at all.
If they have  wives that seem problematic or are not considered by others to be virtuous enough, they would also be disqualified.
We know that hardly anybody stands a chance to be an overseer or elder of a church if we put him through this laundry check-list. What about other qualifications like sound theological degrees and good social etiquette? Has Paul forgotten them? I also wonder if Paul's outward disposition is gentle enough for the job. So we realize that the items on the check-list only serve as a guide, which also means that the "husband of one wife" is not to be taken as a rigid instruction but a guide to measure one's availability and capacity, especially when one was not raised in the Jewish ways of patriarchy and house management. If this instruction is to be adhered to rigidly, then the rest of the qualifications must be rigidly fulfilled too, implying that countless pastors and elders are not acceptable before God.

Also interestingly, this "strictly monogamy" line of interpretation would also mean that great leaders like Moses, David and Abraham are all going to be disqualified from ruling with Christ. One may contend that they would then be neither male nor female. But they can never erase the fact that their lives were polygamous when God qualified them as leaders and exemplars, and into eternity they still acknowledge their wives. When Jesus said that they would be neither male nor female in the resurrection, He merely meant that they no longer have sexual relationships - a good answer to the trick questions of the doubting Pharisees. It's not that they would not recognize or disown their wives. If a monogamist would acknowledge his wife, so would a polygamist. So a continual polygamous relationship if deemed sinful would imply a sin that goes into eternity. We would have to first answer the question as to whether Abraham and David and their multiple wives would be in Heaven. The answer of course is YES. Thus it is clear that the enforcement of strict monogamy on leaders of the church is inconsistent with the ways of the unchanging God. It is definitely out.

Yet there is more than meets the eye. The word "one" (Strong No. 3391) has been translated elsewhere also as "first". We see this same instructional guideline repeated in Titus 1:6, where the same word "one" is translated as "first" in Titus 3:10 to reject a divisive man after the first and second admonition. This same word "mia" in Greek is also translated in several other places in the New Testament as "first" rather than "one", for example "first day of the week" in John 20:1. Easterners like the Chinese still call the "first day of the week" also as "number one day of the week". Thus, it is also possible to translate the passages of 1Tim 3:2 and Titus 1:6 as saying that bishops and elders should be a blameless, "first wife husband" who is capable of taking care of his household. This means that he should be capable of keeping his first wife and managing his children well, which means that he can be polygamous. This flows well with the teaching of Christ about divorce and also with the verses in Malachi 3:15,16 that say God is against one who deals treacherously with the wife of his youth (forsaking first wife) and that he hates divorce. God is not against addition and added responsibility. He is against subtraction and irresponsibility. Since polygamy is in order, many divorcees including ministers should attempt to bring back their first wives and love them. I am not in any way saying that because of "first wife husband", all bishops and elders must be polygamous. But rather, because the word "mia" can be translated as "one" and "first", this verse cannot be used to support the proposition that bishops and elders must be monogamous, not forgetting the cultural and contextual "guidance" aspect of the instructions. There is simply no ground against leaders being polygamous in these pastoral passages. No way. Also, in 1Tim 5:9, the specific numeric "one" is used in application to "wife of one husband" (Strong No. 1520). Why wouldn't the same author of the same epistle use the same word if he had meant a same absolute numerical "one" in both cases? The answer is obvious, the meaning of "first wife" as in the case of elders and bishops and the numerical "one husband" as in the latter case of the same epistle. 

There has been further contention (as would always be) that according to some 'authoritative' resources, the word "mia" in Greek language is to be correctly translated as "one", referring to a number because the word for sequential order ("first") of things and persons is the word "protos". Thus it means that the people in the congregation can be polygamous while pastors, bishops and deacons should be monogamous. For this I have 4 comments:

1. For all I know, the sources of such Greek "experts" were basically materials written by western Christians who made specific reference to this verse in their linguistic works. Thus we cannot discount the fact that such authorities may still be bias.

2. In the present time when God is using a royal priesthood where leadership and influence are not confined to bishops, pastors and deacons alone, making such a guide into a Law for just these 3 categories of leaders would be inappropriate. Also, where is it in the epistles that says the lifestyle of a spiritual leader should be religiously or naturally different from others believers? Anything that is inappropriate for the leaders would also be inappropriate for the others. This pattern is consistent throughout the NT of royal priesthood. God in His sovereign will, shifted the priesthood to include the laity and the line which separates them from the clergy is fast disappearing. We know there are those "ordinary" members of the congregation who are doing much more ministry than the clergy, influencing and leading the people as never before. So where then do we draw the line as to who should be polygamous and who should not be?

3. Leaders are supposed to be examples and imposing monogamy on them violates the overall context of the Word, watering down its timeless value and application, undermining the spirituality of the Patriarchs and making those who are polygamous, second class and unspiritual. Thus taking such line of interpretation that it's a must for leaders to be monogamous also means that polygamy is Biblically discriminated against.

4. It also means that a member who is polygamous would have to put away his other wives or wait for them to leave him or die, otherwise he is condemned to be only a follower and a member in the church, no matter how well he runs his family or how anointed he becomes. There is no more hope for him to advance in God's Kingdom.  It seems he can polygamous while he is a younger believer and a ordinary member of the congregation, yet he is condemned by this same scriptural right and be barred from becoming an spiritual leader as he advances in the Lord. This is absolutely ridiculous! God is not like that. This line of theology condemns polygamous people to be unspiritual followers. 

Despite all theological and technical exposition regarding this word "mia, to those who are still insistent on a being erroneously religious about being "a husband of one wife" I would like to tell them that a guideline is to be precisely a guide, not a Law. What Paul wrote was contextually a guide (taken that "mia" must mean "one", which is proven wrong) for the new church at that time, not always. Even so, the Law is for man and not man for the Law. We must be careful lest we be like the Jews, who fell into legalistically and ritualistically living out the Law and not the spirit of the Law. As what Martin Luther said, "Learn from me, how difficult a thing it is to throw off errors confirmed by the example of all the world, and which, through long habit, have become a second nature to us."

Further technical reading of the word "mia":
http://home.sprynet.com/sprynet/jbwwhite/HEIS_MIA.html
Jeff White is a friend and a wonderful teacher of the Word.

Copyright © Israel CS Lim, 1998



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glacier_71

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We are dealing with both doctrine and ministry. As ministry affects doctrine, and vice versa.

To preach the Word of God, completely and unabated, one must focus fully on Christ. Mind and Body.

This is manifest in the Holy Roman Catholic Church. The anointed Church of Jesus Christ. The very rock the he had established in Apostle Peter.

One cannot serve two masters.
You are arguing with extramedullary examples, Glacier, though I credit you.

There was a great schism between the Western and Universal Roman Catholic Church with the Primacy of the East in such a way that was influenced by the Imperial disposition of Constantinople to monopolize Imperial Authority and Imperial Religion.

It was pride, ultimately, of the Eastern Roman Empire (Constantinole) that forgoed its oaths to the early church fathers, and its apostacy from the Roman Catholic Church. It branched from the true church teachings. History has not judged Constantinople favorably. As it was conquored the Muslim Turks in 1451, and its Primacy was moved continuously, moving to Bulgaria, then to Kiev in Ukraine, then even to Moscow Russia. There is no singular religious body in Eastern Orthodoxy, after its schism with Rome. Simply because the East dropped its recognition of Apostolic Primacy, that was in the Pope.

The presence of 'Eastern Catholics' and or 'Greek Catholics' is a recent phenomenon, that we see, which is an attempt of the East to reunify and re-integrate with the Western Roman Catholic Church.

Additionally, there are extradordinary clauses for Eastern Catholic Priests because Eastern Orthodox priests are allowed to marry. The main difference here is that eastern orthodox does not recognize the primacy of the Holy Father, the Pope of the Holy Roman Catholic Church.

So, what we see, in the development of 'Eastern Catholicism' is the mingling of Eastern Orthodox tradition with Catholic Tradition.

It is a recent phenomenon that has occured, Thank the Lord Jesus Christ, that has allowed the development of reunification between Catholics and Orthodox.

Traditionally, and gospel-wise, Catholic teachings are similar to Orthodoxy.

Pragmatics, my dear, it was pragmatics that led to the schism.

Praise be to God Almighty in Heaven, that there is unison in His Church and bridging of brothers.
i make myself clear here. my argument is that does married state of priests inhibit/lessen his ability to provide faithful ministry to people. i say: No. Why from our experience with other  denominations and brethren of Eastern rites, there is no absolute proof of denying its possibility. Married ministers have served as effectively as non-married priests do. i'm not talking of doctrine here. it's reality.
futhermore, early leaders of the church (post-apostoic times), called "elders", were married, chosen from among the faithful to SERVE and LEAD. celibacy was not a prerequisite. to cite an example, in the Acts, the apostles laid their hands upon Stephen and 6 others to serve the Word but there was no imposition of such rule that they should not marry, or only single can be allowed to serve the "ecclesia". yet, the communities grew each day.
the theologians of the church say that celibacy is not intrinsic to the priesthood. the priesthood of Christ is not about celibacy; it is about service (to put it simply) liturgically and pastorally. it's the ministry that defines the priesthood, not his state of celibate life. that's why anyone can serve, whether ordained or not, married or celibate. "kalooy sab sa pari no. inig human sa ordinasyon, moingon dayon ang mga tawo, AY SI FATHER DI NA MAKAASAWA. ingon pod tawn tong usa ka pari, "anu ba sa tingin nyo ang pagpapari, pigil lang nang pigil?"
 i am saying i don't admire priests who are faithful to their celibate life and have done their service well to their flock. i do.
it is only that with my observation and understanding of this particular issue, the Roman Catholic Church has to be more open and listen to Spirit and the signs of the times...

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fdaray

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I  agree with you glacier that Roman Catholic church must be open minded at this time and that the truth will not  be hide not like in the early centuries AD. Being  a married pastor does not lessen his ability for  faithful service to God.
i make myself clear here. my argument is that does married state of priests inhibit/lessen his ability to provide faithful ministry to people. i say: No. Why from our experience with other  denominations and brethren of Eastern rites, there is no absolute proof of denying its possibility. Married ministers have served as effectively as non-married priests do. i'm not talking of doctrine here. it's reality.
futhermore, early leaders of the church (post-apostoic times), called "elders", were married, chosen from among the faithful to SERVE and LEAD. celibacy was not a prerequisite. to cite an example, in the Acts, the apostles laid their hands upon Stephen and 6 others to serve the Word but there was no imposition of such rule that they should not marry, or only single can be allowed to serve the "ecclesia". yet, the communities grew each day.
the theologians of the church say that celibacy is not intrinsic to the priesthood. the priesthood of Christ is not about celibacy; it is about service (to put it simply) liturgically and pastorally. it's the ministry that defines the priesthood, not his state of celibate life. that's why anyone can serve, whether ordained or not, married or celibate. "kalooy sab sa pari no. inig human sa ordinasyon, moingon dayon ang mga tawo, AY SI FATHER DI NA MAKAASAWA. ingon pod tawn tong usa ka pari, "anu ba sa tingin nyo ang pagpapari, pigil lang nang pigil?"
 i am saying i don't admire priests who are faithful to their celibate life and have done their service well to their flock. i do.
it is only that with my observation and understanding of this particular issue, the Roman Catholic Church has to be more open and listen to Spirit and the signs of the times...

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The verses from the Bible need no further explanation for it already tells the turth about celibacy.


MAT 19:10  The disciples said to him, "If this is the situation between a
husband and wife, it is better not to marry."

11  Jesus replied, "Not everyone can accept this word, but only those to
whom it has been given.

12  For some are eunuchs because they were born that way; others were made
that way by men; and others have renounced marriage because of the kingdom
of heaven. The one who can accept this should accept it."

1CO 7:1  Now for the matters you wrote about: It is good for a man not to
marry.

2  But since there is so much immorality, each man should have his own
wife, and each woman her own husband.

7  I wish that all men were as I am. But each man has his own gift from
God; one has this gift, another has that.

8  Now to the unmarried and the widows I say: It is good for them to stay
unmarried, as I am.

9  But if they cannot control themselves, they should marry, for it is
better to marry than to burn with passion.

25  Now about virgins: I have no command from the Lord, but I give a
judgment as one who by the Lord's mercy is trustworthy.

26  Because of the present crisis, I think that it is good for you to
remain as you are.

32  I would like you to be free from concern. An unmarried man is concerned
about the Lord's affairs--how he can please the Lord.

33  But a married man is concerned about the affairs of this world--how he
can please his wife--

34  and his interests are divided. An unmarried woman or virgin is
concerned about the Lord's affairs: Her aim is to be devoted to the Lord in
both body and spirit. But a married woman is concerned about the affairs of
this world--how she can please her husband.

35  I am saying this for your own good, not to restrict you, but that you
may live in a right way in undivided devotion to the Lord.

36  If anyone thinks he is acting improperly toward the virgin he is
engaged to, and if she is getting along in years and he feels he ought to
marry, he should do as he wants. He is not sinning. They should get
married.

37  But the man who has settled the matter in his own mind, who is under no
compulsion but has control over his own will, and who has made up his mind
not to marry the virgin--this man also does the right thing.

38  So then, he who marries the virgin does right, but he who does not
marry her does even better.

39  A woman is bound to her husband as long as he lives. But if her husband
dies, she is free to marry anyone she wishes, but he must belong to the
Lord.

40  In my judgment, she is happier if she stays as she is--and I think that
I too have the Spirit of God.

1TI 4:1  The Spirit clearly says that in later times some will abandon the
faith and follow deceiving spirits and things taught by demons.

2  Such teachings come through hypocritical liars, whose consciences have
been seared as with a hot iron.

3  They forbid people to marry and order them to abstain from certain
foods, which God created to be received with thanksgiving by those who
believe and who know the truth.

REV 14:4  These are those who did not defile themselves with women, for
they kept themselves pure. They follow the Lamb wherever he goes. They were
purchased from among men and offered as firstfruits to God and the Lamb.

     

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