Author Topic: Question and Answer about the Bible  (Read 8170 times)

fdaray

  • LUMINARY
  • ***
  • Posts: 5036
  • In my twilight days..... I shine still shine..
    • View Profile
Question and Answer about the Bible
« on: April 04, 2008, 03:45:19 PM »
THe Bible is composed of  many books. What book in the Bible which does not mention about God or Lord?

Linkback: https://tubagbohol.mikeligalig.com/index.php?topic=11420.0
Life is what you make.
Kon naa kay gisoksok, naa kay makuot.

http://feldarblogspotcom.blogspot.com/
http://darayagrifacts.blogspot.com/

unionbank online loan application low interest, credit card, easy and fast approval

fdaray

  • LUMINARY
  • ***
  • Posts: 5036
  • In my twilight days..... I shine still shine..
    • View Profile
Re: Question and Answer about the Bible
« Reply #1 on: April 08, 2008, 08:06:54 AM »
Who was the oldest man in the Bible, and how old when he died?

Linkback: https://tubagbohol.mikeligalig.com/index.php?topic=11420.0
Life is what you make.
Kon naa kay gisoksok, naa kay makuot.

http://feldarblogspotcom.blogspot.com/
http://darayagrifacts.blogspot.com/

kiamoy

  • EXECUTIVE
  • GURU
  • *****
  • Posts: 8854
  • kiss me thru the phone..
    • View Profile
Re: Question and Answer about the Bible
« Reply #2 on: April 08, 2008, 08:08:14 AM »
Na-try mo na ba yung Tala app? Reliable sa unexpected expenses at laking tulong sa future! Use this code 9SO1TSL or visit www.tala.com to sign up!

if you can't quit, then please help warn the kids..
support Picture-Based Health Warning Bill  => https://www.ash.org.ph/

unionbank online loan application low interest, credit card, easy and fast approval

grazie7y

  • EXECUTIVE
  • GURU
  • *****
  • Posts: 19772
  • Aya san, rest in peace. I will always miss you...
    • View Profile
Re: Question and Answer about the Bible
« Reply #3 on: April 08, 2008, 09:24:22 AM »
THe Bible is composed of  many books. What book in the Bible which does not mention about God or Lord?

The book of Esther.

Linkback: https://tubagbohol.mikeligalig.com/index.php?topic=11420.0
Book your tickets and anywhere by planes, trains, boats, or bus at www.12go.co

fdaray

  • LUMINARY
  • ***
  • Posts: 5036
  • In my twilight days..... I shine still shine..
    • View Profile
Re: Question and Answer about the Bible
« Reply #4 on: April 08, 2008, 10:15:27 AM »
Yes, the book of Esther.
The oldest man was Methushelah, 969 years old.

Linkback: https://tubagbohol.mikeligalig.com/index.php?topic=11420.0
Life is what you make.
Kon naa kay gisoksok, naa kay makuot.

http://feldarblogspotcom.blogspot.com/
http://darayagrifacts.blogspot.com/

fdaray

  • LUMINARY
  • ***
  • Posts: 5036
  • In my twilight days..... I shine still shine..
    • View Profile
Re: Question and Answer about the Bible
« Reply #5 on: April 08, 2008, 11:19:51 AM »
What is the shortest verse in the Bible? Post the chapter number and  verse.

Linkback: https://tubagbohol.mikeligalig.com/index.php?topic=11420.0
Life is what you make.
Kon naa kay gisoksok, naa kay makuot.

http://feldarblogspotcom.blogspot.com/
http://darayagrifacts.blogspot.com/

grazie7y

  • EXECUTIVE
  • GURU
  • *****
  • Posts: 19772
  • Aya san, rest in peace. I will always miss you...
    • View Profile
Re: Question and Answer about the Bible
« Reply #6 on: April 08, 2008, 11:30:05 AM »
What is the shortest verse in the Bible? Post the chapter number and  verse.

John 11:35, "Jesus wept."

Linkback: https://tubagbohol.mikeligalig.com/index.php?topic=11420.0
Book your tickets and anywhere by planes, trains, boats, or bus at www.12go.co

unionbank online loan application low interest, credit card, easy and fast approval

hazel

  • Guest
Re: Question and Answer about the Bible
« Reply #7 on: April 08, 2008, 04:18:13 PM »

Are there any biblical foundations that priests should not be married or should be celibate?

Linkback: https://tubagbohol.mikeligalig.com/index.php?topic=11420.0

grazie7y

  • EXECUTIVE
  • GURU
  • *****
  • Posts: 19772
  • Aya san, rest in peace. I will always miss you...
    • View Profile
Re: Question and Answer about the Bible
« Reply #8 on: April 08, 2008, 04:21:20 PM »

Are there any biblical foundations that priests should not be married or should be celibate?

I don't think there is.  Celibacy is not God's law.

Linkback: https://tubagbohol.mikeligalig.com/index.php?topic=11420.0
Book your tickets and anywhere by planes, trains, boats, or bus at www.12go.co

hazel

  • Guest
Re: Question and Answer about the Bible
« Reply #9 on: April 08, 2008, 04:22:43 PM »

unionbank online loan application low interest, credit card, easy and fast approval

kiamoy

  • EXECUTIVE
  • GURU
  • *****
  • Posts: 8854
  • kiss me thru the phone..
    • View Profile
Re: Question and Answer about the Bible
« Reply #10 on: April 08, 2008, 09:28:53 PM »
I don't think there is.  Celibacy is not God's law.


daghan ang malipay!!   st francis of assissi wala jud nang patay ug insects?

Linkback: https://tubagbohol.mikeligalig.com/index.php?topic=11420.0
Na-try mo na ba yung Tala app? Reliable sa unexpected expenses at laking tulong sa future! Use this code 9SO1TSL or visit www.tala.com to sign up!

if you can't quit, then please help warn the kids..
support Picture-Based Health Warning Bill  => https://www.ash.org.ph/

Lorenzo

  • SUPREME COURT
  • THE LEGEND
  • *****
  • Posts: 54226
  • Be the change you want to see in the world...
    • View Profile
Re: Question and Answer about the Bible
« Reply #11 on: April 09, 2008, 01:51:07 AM »

Are there any biblical foundations that priests should not be married or should be celibate?

The Church Fathers of the first four centuries consistently spoke against the married priesthood. (Eusibius, Augustine, Tertullian, Origen, St. Cyril of Jerusalem, St. Jerome etc..) St. Epiphanius speaks of the accepted ecclesiastical rule of the priesthood (kanona tes ierosynes) as something established by the Apostles. (Haer., xlviii, 9) "Holy Church", he says, "respects the dignity of the priesthood to such a point that she does not admit to the diaconate, the priesthood, or the episcopate, nor even to the subdiaconate, anyone still living in marriage and begetting children." (Haer., lix, 4).

The writings of the Church fathers show that, in the early Church, married priests were not the accepted norm in the main centres of Alexandria, Antioch and Rome. They considered it a "problem" that existed in the outlying regions. By the 3rd century there were almost no married priests and several councils put the issue to rest until around the 9th century when many bishops and priests took wives and had children. The state of the priesthood fell to an all time low.  A huge problem emerged with priests "willing" Church property to their families. Up to that point, the principle of celibacy was never completely surrendered in the official enactments of the Church. In 1123, celibacy was made official. Although, throughout history there have been scattered instances of abuses of the Canon Law, the Roman Catholic Church has consistently stuck to this position on celibate priests.

There was much theology around the concept of a priest being the "bride of Christ" (Jn 3:29, Rev 18:23, 19:7, 21:9, 21:17. This was considered in the Church's decision. Scripture fairly consistently awards celibacy a higher spiritual calling than marriage.

    it is well for them to remain unmarried as I am...it is well for you to remain as you are...do not seek a wife...he who refrains from marriage will do better(I Cor., 7-8 and 32-38)

Paul says that celibacy provides "unhindered devotion to the Lord. " (1 cor 7:35) Jesus tells us "it is better not to marry...let anyone accept this who can." (Mat 19:10-12)

Linkback: https://tubagbohol.mikeligalig.com/index.php?topic=11420.0
www.trip.com - Hassle-free planning of your next trip

hazel

  • Guest
Re: Question and Answer about the Bible
« Reply #12 on: April 09, 2008, 01:57:58 AM »

Dong, can you quote any text in the bible that directly supports or orders the sanction of priestly celibacy?

Linkback: https://tubagbohol.mikeligalig.com/index.php?topic=11420.0

Lorenzo

  • SUPREME COURT
  • THE LEGEND
  • *****
  • Posts: 54226
  • Be the change you want to see in the world...
    • View Profile
Re: Question and Answer about the Bible
« Reply #13 on: April 09, 2008, 02:06:40 AM »
Matthew 19:10-12
...his disciples said to him, "If such is the case of a man with his wife, it is better not to marry." But he said to them, "Not everyone can accept this teaching, but only those to whom it is given. For there are eunuchs who have been so from birth, and there are eunuchs who have been made eunuchs by others, and there are eunuchs who have made themselves eunuchs for the sake of the kingdom of heaven. Let anyone accept this who can."


and


1 Cor 7:24-35
...In whatever condition you were called, brothers and sisters, there remain with God. Now concerning virgins, I have no command of the Lord, but I give my opinion as one who by the Lord's mercy is trustworthy. I think that, in view of the impending crisis, it is well for you to remain as you are. Are you bound to a wife? Do not seek to be free. Are you free from a wife? Do not seek a wife... Yet those who marry will experience distress in this life, and I would spare you that. I mean, brothers and sisters, the appointed time has grown short; from now on, let even those who have wives be as though they had none,  but the married man is anxious about the affairs of the world, how to please his wife,  and his interests are divided. And the unmarried woman and the virgin are anxious about the affairs of the Lord, so that they may be holy in body and spirit; but the married woman is anxious about the affairs of the world, how to please her husband. I say this for your own benefit, not to put any restraint upon you, but to promote good order and unhindered devotion to the Lord.

Linkback: https://tubagbohol.mikeligalig.com/index.php?topic=11420.0
www.trip.com - Hassle-free planning of your next trip

hazel

  • Guest
Re: Question and Answer about the Bible
« Reply #14 on: April 09, 2008, 02:10:50 AM »
'Now concerning virgins, I have no command of the Lord, but I give my opinion as one who by the Lord's mercy is trustworthy.

Paul himself admitted that 'I have no command of the Lord....


From the texts you quoted dong, there is no explicit order from the Lord to practice celibacy..in fact, He used the non-mandatory words 'let anyone...' and the second text is Paul's exhortation not words coming directly from Jesus.

Besides 'let anyone accept this who can' was not even exclusively addressed to the apostles the predecessors of present day roman catholic priests..it was an open exhortation.

Linkback: https://tubagbohol.mikeligalig.com/index.php?topic=11420.0

unionbank online loan application low interest, credit card, easy and fast approval

kiamoy

  • EXECUTIVE
  • GURU
  • *****
  • Posts: 8854
  • kiss me thru the phone..
    • View Profile
Re: Question and Answer about the Bible
« Reply #15 on: April 09, 2008, 02:12:05 AM »
Let anyone accept this who can. <- Si Jesus na mismo ng ingon ana.. He just knows..

OT: Renz. wow. you know the bible jud..

Linkback: https://tubagbohol.mikeligalig.com/index.php?topic=11420.0
Na-try mo na ba yung Tala app? Reliable sa unexpected expenses at laking tulong sa future! Use this code 9SO1TSL or visit www.tala.com to sign up!

if you can't quit, then please help warn the kids..
support Picture-Based Health Warning Bill  => https://www.ash.org.ph/

hazel

  • Guest
Re: Question and Answer about the Bible
« Reply #16 on: April 09, 2008, 02:18:05 AM »
Let anyone accept this who can. <- Si Jesus na mismo ng ingon ana.. He just knows..

OT: Renz. wow. you know the bible jud..

Yes, bem! Ingon bitaw si Jesus mismo pero wala man siya mo command.

Linkback: https://tubagbohol.mikeligalig.com/index.php?topic=11420.0

unionbank online loan application low interest, credit card, easy and fast approval

Lorenzo

  • SUPREME COURT
  • THE LEGEND
  • *****
  • Posts: 54226
  • Be the change you want to see in the world...
    • View Profile
Re: Question and Answer about the Bible
« Reply #17 on: April 09, 2008, 02:26:18 AM »
That is true, 'te, these references from verses in the Book of Corinthians and Book of Matthew provide as a guide to the practices of the Catholic Church in Priestly celibacy. This has been much discussed by theologians and when it comes down to it, there is strong understanding in the power of the calling to the priesthood.

We all know the temptations of the flesh is undeniable, there have been instances of priests and even sisters who have fallen to those temptations. And as what blessed St. Paul tells us, the path of priesthood and to holy orders within the Holy Church is not an easy path nor is it meant for everyone.

Many are called, but few are able to answer His callings. He tells us that if you are married, stay married and do what you can in your married life to glorify the Lord. However, if you are not married and if there is within you a calling to minister to the flock, then not marrying is another option. St. Paul tells gives us his own interpretation, yet his interpretations are influenced by the Holy Spirit. The implications of this is to prevent conflict of interests. He mentions this in "But the married man is anxious about the affairs of the world, how to please hi wife, and his interests are divided." whereas those who are unmarried will be "anxious about the affairs of the Lord, so that they may be holy in the body and spirit." (1 Corinthians 7)

There are practical reasons why the Catholic Church follows celibacy, one for spiritual reasons, second for practical reasons. Priests, upon their ordination into the Shepardry of the flock, will be rotated and moved around through his diocese until the end. It is hard to raise a family, additionally, there are thousands of priests that preach to the millions of catholics. The church would not be able to support all the priests and their dependents, if marriage was allowed.

In the end, Hazel, I think this all stems back to one's choice in joining priestly holy orders. To me, priesthood is total sacrifice to the Lord and his ministry to His flock. Many are tempted and many are able to fight off temptations. That is why there are cases of sexual relations by priests. It is unnatural, so to say, for priestly celibacy, but the Church regards the priesthood as not a 'natural' order, but that of the christian spiritual. Which in its purest form, transcends the physical and the natural.

They preach the Christian Truth. Their calling is not by money, not by pride, not by family ties.

Catholic seminarians and priests know what they are doing. The deep burning fire in their hearts and Love of Christ, and the Sacrifice of Christ, inspires them to be like Christ. Who among us men can willfully join a Holy Order that would doom one's progeny? I tell you, I cannot! But these men, ordain themselves into holy orders in their young age through the touching of the Holy Spirit. That they are willing to give up the chances of ever becoming a father to their own children; a grandfather. To ever marry a woman and love the flesh.

For me, these men who go into the priesthood with true motives and are able to fight off the natural temptations of the devil of the flesh, then I say Blessed, Blessed are they! For Truly they are called into the Royal Priesthood by the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit.

And they have continued a tradition that stems back to our Church Fathers. Not by decades, not by years. But by millenias. For 2 thousand years they have preached the truth, and the truth has coveted 1.5 billion Catholics in the world.

If it was not the truth, then the success of the Holy Church would not have been possible.


 

Linkback: https://tubagbohol.mikeligalig.com/index.php?topic=11420.0
www.trip.com - Hassle-free planning of your next trip

Lorenzo

  • SUPREME COURT
  • THE LEGEND
  • *****
  • Posts: 54226
  • Be the change you want to see in the world...
    • View Profile
Re: Question and Answer about the Bible
« Reply #18 on: April 09, 2008, 02:27:53 AM »
Let anyone accept this who can. <- Si Jesus na mismo ng ingon ana.. He just knows..

OT: Renz. wow. you know the bible jud..

I read it frequently, Kiams.

There is great history, teachings, philosophy in the Holy Bible.

It truly has answers for almost all of life's lessons, and life's problems.

It is Divinely-inspired. Written by the hands of men, but by the Word and Spirit of the ETERNAL GOD.

Amen,

Linkback: https://tubagbohol.mikeligalig.com/index.php?topic=11420.0
www.trip.com - Hassle-free planning of your next trip

kiamoy

  • EXECUTIVE
  • GURU
  • *****
  • Posts: 8854
  • kiss me thru the phone..
    • View Profile
Re: Question and Answer about the Bible
« Reply #19 on: April 09, 2008, 02:39:36 AM »
i am scared sa revelations. mao nang di ko mubasa or maybe i lack knowledge about it..

Linkback: https://tubagbohol.mikeligalig.com/index.php?topic=11420.0
Na-try mo na ba yung Tala app? Reliable sa unexpected expenses at laking tulong sa future! Use this code 9SO1TSL or visit www.tala.com to sign up!

if you can't quit, then please help warn the kids..
support Picture-Based Health Warning Bill  => https://www.ash.org.ph/

unionbank online loan application low interest, credit card, easy and fast approval

hazel

  • Guest
Re: Question and Answer about the Bible
« Reply #20 on: April 09, 2008, 02:44:01 AM »
His words 'provide as a guide', 'this all stems back to one's choice'... there is no order from Christ that priests should be celibate

So the bottom line is, there is no biblical foundation for priestly celibacy.

Sorry, dong, but your reflections do not provide a satisfying answer to the issue at hand. :)





Linkback: https://tubagbohol.mikeligalig.com/index.php?topic=11420.0

Lorenzo

  • SUPREME COURT
  • THE LEGEND
  • *****
  • Posts: 54226
  • Be the change you want to see in the world...
    • View Profile
Re: Question and Answer about the Bible
« Reply #21 on: April 09, 2008, 02:56:27 AM »
Of course, 'te. There are varying stances on the said matter, theologians have been arguing each other on it for centuries now. It is one of the reasons why there are differences between Catholic and Orthodox Churches.
1) Both churches preach with conservative reference of tradition towards scripture.
2) Both churches differ in a) the concept of the infallibility of the Pope (though the Orthodox Church regards him as the 'first of many bishops' and b) the concept of celibacy. Catholic Church wants its priests to remain celibate and Orthodox allows its priests to marry.

The same can even be said for Protestant churches, who allow their ministers to marry.

So yes I agree with you that these references are loose and open to interpretation. Catholic, Orthodox and Protestant.



Linkback: https://tubagbohol.mikeligalig.com/index.php?topic=11420.0
www.trip.com - Hassle-free planning of your next trip

kiamoy

  • EXECUTIVE
  • GURU
  • *****
  • Posts: 8854
  • kiss me thru the phone..
    • View Profile
Re: Question and Answer about the Bible
« Reply #22 on: April 09, 2008, 03:03:16 AM »
did the great flood really happen?

Linkback: https://tubagbohol.mikeligalig.com/index.php?topic=11420.0
Na-try mo na ba yung Tala app? Reliable sa unexpected expenses at laking tulong sa future! Use this code 9SO1TSL or visit www.tala.com to sign up!

if you can't quit, then please help warn the kids..
support Picture-Based Health Warning Bill  => https://www.ash.org.ph/

hazel

  • Guest
Re: Question and Answer about the Bible
« Reply #23 on: April 09, 2008, 03:14:36 AM »
Of course, 'te. There are varying stances on the said matter, theologians have been arguing each other on it for centuries now. It is one of the reasons why there are differences between Catholic and Orthodox Churches.
1) Both churches preach with conservative reference of tradition towards scripture.
2) Both churches differ in a) the concept of the infallibility of the Pope (though the Orthodox Church regards him as the 'first of many bishops' and b) the concept of celibacy. Catholic Church wants its priests to remain celibate and Orthodox allows its priests to marry.

The same can even be said for Protestant churches, who allow their ministers to marry.

So yes I agree with you that these references are loose and open to interpretation. Catholic, Orthodox and Protestant.



Dong, I'm not so much interested on the controversies surrounding the orthodox and catholic churches..whatever their disputes are, that's theirs to settle..in the final analysis, there really is no biblical foundation for priestly celibacy. This sanction has been interpreted by the Church and was part of the century-old unfolding of Christian tradition. But bluntly put, Jesus never commanded his disciples to be celibate.

Still I rest my case that the sanction to priestly celibacy was rooted not so much on biblical mandate but on church tradition, teachings of the church fathers and the ever enriching daily experience of the Christian community..what started out as an experience gradually became more pronounced and articulated into some form of a sanction.

Linkback: https://tubagbohol.mikeligalig.com/index.php?topic=11420.0

slackware

  • Only the strong can survive...
  • LUMINARY
  • ***
  • Posts: 4033
  • "Die as a hero or live long enough as a vallain?"
    • View Profile
Re: Question and Answer about the Bible
« Reply #24 on: April 09, 2008, 03:17:33 AM »
The Lost Years of Jesus...Did Jesus go to Tibet and India?

"Jesus in Himalayas"

# Ancient scrolls reveal that Jesus spent seventeen years in India and Tibet

# From age thirteen to age twenty-nine, he was both a student and teacher of Buddhist and Hindu holy men

# The story of his journey from Jerusalem to Benares was recorded by Brahman historians

# Today they still know him and love him as St. Issa. Their 'buddha'

http://reluctant-messenger.com/issa.htm
http://www.wayofadventure.com/video/himalayas.html

Linkback: https://tubagbohol.mikeligalig.com/index.php?topic=11420.0
"All that is needed for evil to succeed is, that decent human beings doing nothing". (Edmund Burke)

slackware

  • Only the strong can survive...
  • LUMINARY
  • ***
  • Posts: 4033
  • "Die as a hero or live long enough as a vallain?"
    • View Profile
Re: Question and Answer about the Bible
« Reply #25 on: April 09, 2008, 03:18:00 AM »
National Geographic put up a documentary about this... and there are records that he was there.  Learning and studying.

Linkback: https://tubagbohol.mikeligalig.com/index.php?topic=11420.0
"All that is needed for evil to succeed is, that decent human beings doing nothing". (Edmund Burke)

hazel

  • Guest
Re: Question and Answer about the Bible
« Reply #26 on: April 09, 2008, 03:22:46 AM »
i am scared sa revelations. mao nang di ko mubasa or maybe i lack knowledge about it..

The book of revelations is never about escathological events, or things about to come..it is john, the apostle's vision and interpretation of his inner encounter and personal experience of His Lord and master..he was not predicting about how things are going to end.

Linkback: https://tubagbohol.mikeligalig.com/index.php?topic=11420.0

ms da binsi

  • EXECUTIVE
  • Webmaster
  • *****
  • Posts: 24916
  • 2. Atheist and not afraid to burn in hell.
    • View Profile
    • https://twitter.com/daBinsi
Re: Question and Answer about the Bible
« Reply #27 on: April 09, 2008, 03:44:15 AM »
National Geographic put up a documentary about this... and there are records that he was there.  Learning and studying.



So Slack sa ijang pag laruy-laroy wa jud kaha sha ka baje?

So he loves to explore too...


 ::)


Linkback: https://tubagbohol.mikeligalig.com/index.php?topic=11420.0

kiamoy

  • EXECUTIVE
  • GURU
  • *****
  • Posts: 8854
  • kiss me thru the phone..
    • View Profile
Re: Question and Answer about the Bible
« Reply #28 on: April 09, 2008, 03:50:55 AM »
bitaw no? kay it was the miracle of the wine then next appearance 33yo na cya

Linkback: https://tubagbohol.mikeligalig.com/index.php?topic=11420.0
Na-try mo na ba yung Tala app? Reliable sa unexpected expenses at laking tulong sa future! Use this code 9SO1TSL or visit www.tala.com to sign up!

if you can't quit, then please help warn the kids..
support Picture-Based Health Warning Bill  => https://www.ash.org.ph/

Lorenzo

  • SUPREME COURT
  • THE LEGEND
  • *****
  • Posts: 54226
  • Be the change you want to see in the world...
    • View Profile
Re: Question and Answer about the Bible
« Reply #29 on: April 09, 2008, 03:55:38 AM »
Of course, 'te. There are varying stances on the said matter, theologians have been arguing each other on it for centuries now. It is one of the reasons why there are differences between Catholic and Orthodox Churches.
1) Both churches preach with conservative reference of tradition towards scripture.
2) Both churches differ in a) the concept of the infallibility of the Pope (though the Orthodox Church regards him as the 'first of many bishops' and b) the concept of celibacy. Catholic Church wants its priests to remain celibate and Orthodox allows its priests to marry.

The same can even be said for Protestant churches, who allow their ministers to marry.

So yes I agree with you that these references are loose and open to interpretation. Catholic, Orthodox and Protestant.



Dong, I'm not so much interested on the controversies surrounding the orthodox and catholic churches..whatever their disputes are, that's theirs to settle..in the final analysis, there really is no biblical foundation for priestly celibacy. This sanction has been interpreted by the Church and was part of the century-old unfolding of Christian tradition. But bluntly put, Jesus never commanded his disciples to be celibate.

Still I rest my case that the sanction to priestly celibacy was rooted not so much on biblical mandate but on church tradition, teachings of the church fathers and the ever enriching daily experience of the Christian community..what started out as an experience gradually became more pronounced and articulated into some form of a sanction.

This is where I differ with you, 'te.
I respect your views on it and interpretation.

But the Book of Matthew clearly even tells us in Matthew 19: 10-12
"Not everyone can accept this teaching, but only those to whom it is given. For there are eunuchs who have been so from birth, and there are eunuchs who have been made eunuchs by others, and there are eunuchs who have made themselves eunuchs for the sake of the kingdom of heaven. Let anyone accept this who can."

He indeed is telling us that celibacy is indeed better than being married, when teaching the truth. The term eunuch is used in that one castrates himself, telling us that in order to preach the truth, one must fully alienate himself from the sensuality of life. To fight temptation. There is no greater excerpt that this that says "and there are eunuchs who have made themselves eunuchs for the sake of the kingdom of heaven."

For the Kingdom of Heaven. And it is the Catholic Church's position to exalt that Kingdom. Through the actions and hands of priests who owe no allegiance to any woman, man or child. But to Christ Alone.

This is why celibacy was indeed preferred.

St. Paul was keen and cautious to use words that downgraded marriage. As marriage in itself is holy, however, for the civilian life. Remember he even said this was his opinion, but he specifically said that his opinion was, "I give my opinion as one who by the Lord's mercy is trustworthy." (1 Cor 7:24-35). This means that the Lord of Host spoke through him. And that the Lord agreed with him as there was a sense of trust-and acceptance. St. Paul tells us that there is nothing wrong with marriage, however, if you are not married stay unmarried in preaching.

The church sees this as direct and solid stance on celibacy. And as a Catholic, I trust in the teachings of the Church.

Linkback: https://tubagbohol.mikeligalig.com/index.php?topic=11420.0
www.trip.com - Hassle-free planning of your next trip

hazel

  • Guest
Re: Question and Answer about the Bible
« Reply #30 on: April 09, 2008, 05:10:16 AM »
Dong, bible scholars and exegetes never used Matthew 19:10-13 as biblical basis for priestly celibacy. Celibacy was never the essential theme on these texts dong. Besides, this was never meant to be an exclusive exhortation to the apostles. Note how scripture scholars approach the subject:

1. Barclay

“…Then Jesus talks about those who have made themselves eunuchs for the sake of the Kingdom of God. We must be quite clear that this is not to be taken literally.  One of the tragedies of the early Church was the case of Origin.  When he was young he took this text quite literally and castrated himself, although he came to see that he was in error.  Clement of Alexandria comes nearer it.  He says, "The true eunuch is not he who cannot, but he who will not indulge in fleshly pleasures."  By this phrase Jesus meant those who for the sake of the Kingdom deliberately bade farewell to marriage and to parenthood and to human physical love.

How can that be?  It can happen that a man has to choose between some call to which he is challenged and human love.  It has been said, "He travels the fastest who travels alone."  A man may feel that he can do the work of some terrible slum parish only by living in circumstances in which marriage and a home are impossible.  He may feel that he must accept some missionary call to a place where he cannot in conscience take a wife and beget children.  He may even find that he is in love and then is offered an exacting task which the person he loves refuses to share.  Then he must choose between human love and the task to which Christ calls him.

Thank God it is not often that such a choice comes to a man; but there are those who have taken upon themselves voluntarily vows of chastity, celibacy, purity, poverty, abstinence, continence.  That will not be the way for the ordinary man, but the world would be a poorer place were it not for those who accept the challenge to travel alone for the sake of the work of Christ…”

2. Jamieson-Faussett-Brown:

Verse 11. But he said unto them, All men cannot receive this saying, save they to whom it is given—that is, “That the unmarried state is better, is a saying not for everyone, and indeed only for such as it is divinely intended for.” But who are these? they would naturally ask; and this our Lord proceeds to tell them in three particulars. Verse 12. For there are some eunuchs which were so born from their mother’s womb—persons constitutionally either incapable of or indisposed to marriage.
and there are some eunuchs which were made eunuchs of men—persons rendered incapable by others.
and there be eunuchs which have made themselves eunuchs for the kingdom of heaven’s sake—persons who, to do God’s work better, deliberately choose this state. Such was Paul (1 Corinthians 7:7). He that is able to receive it, let him receive it—“He who feels this to be his proper vocation, let him embrace it”; which, of course, is as much as to say—“he only.” Thus, all are left free in this matter.

3. Life Application Commentary:

Matthew 19:11-12
But he said to them, “Not everyone can accept this teaching, but only those to whom it is given. For there are eunuchs who have been so from birth, and there are eunuchs who have been made eunuchs by others, and there are eunuchs who have made themselves eunuchs for the sake of the kingdom of heaven. Let anyone accept this who can.” (nrsv) Views differ on which “teaching” Jesus was referring to when he said, “Not everyone can accept this teaching.” If he meant the disciples’ words in 19:10, he was saying that their proposal of celibacy was a good one, but not everyone can be celibate, only those to whom it is given. The problem with this interpretation is that Jesus would have been setting celibacy above marriage as a “higher ideal,” and this would contradict his teaching in 19:3-9 (and the high ideal of marriage). A second option is that “this teaching” referred to his own words in 19:3-9 regarding the high ideal of marriage, a demanding one, an ideal to which not everyone is called “but only those to whom it is given.” Those “given” that responsibility are expected to adhere to it, as Jesus described above. This second interpretation fits best.

Single Life
Many Christians are single, chaste, and happy. Marriage is not a prerequisite for a fulfilled life. The question raised here is whether diligent Christians should choose singleness as a way of better serving Christ. Clearly, the Roman Catholic tradition promotes this. Priests and nuns are single in order to enhance their devotion to Christ. In other traditions, some have chosen singleness for spiritual purposes.

Here’s some help:

Jesus’ comment on singleness, like his comment on divorce, comes in the context of God’s overriding approval of stable marriage. A serious Christian should not, therefore, feel “less spiritual” because of a desire to marry. A decision to be single should never be forced (by parents or pastors or anyone) on anyone. Such a decision touches so deeply our personal lives that pressure or guilt should never be imposed. Vows of chastity are advisedly taken with an escape clause, in the event that, down the road, the vow becomes a source of deep sadness. Just as we would advise a friend, “Don’t marry just to marry,” so we would also advise, “Don’t set yourself up to burn with emotion, passion, and regret, should God lead you to that special person.”

There are some to whom this gift of marriage is not given. A “eunuch” is an emasculated male—a man with no testicles. Some are eunuchs … from birth, who perhaps had physical limitations that prevented their marrying. Others were made eunuchs by others, such as those servants who, in ancient cultures, were castrated in order to serve the master without sexual distractions or without the ability to create offspring (such as the men who presided over the king’s harem). Those who have made themselves eunuchs for the sake of the kingdom of heaven are those who voluntarily remained totally abstinent, choosing not to marry because, in their particular situation, they could serve God better as single people. They did not literally castrate themselves. Jesus himself would be in this category, as was the apostle Paul. Some believers throughout history have interpreted this wrongly as a command to remove their testicles. Origin (a.d. 184–254), a Christian scholar in Alexandria, did this in order to give himself more fully to teaching young women, but he later regretted this act. Jesus was not teaching that believers should avoid marriage because it is inconvenient or takes away freedom. That would be selfish. He was teaching that a good reason to remain single would be to use the time and freedom to serve God.


All these experts never quoted Matthew 19:10-13 as biblical foundation for priestly celibacy. And it would be foolish to do so when there is no evident reason that Jesus meant the text as a way of life for his disciples. Using the text as ground for priestly celibacy is “too much reading in between the lines.”


Linkback: https://tubagbohol.mikeligalig.com/index.php?topic=11420.0

ms da binsi

  • EXECUTIVE
  • Webmaster
  • *****
  • Posts: 24916
  • 2. Atheist and not afraid to burn in hell.
    • View Profile
    • https://twitter.com/daBinsi
Re: Question and Answer about the Bible
« Reply #31 on: April 09, 2008, 05:18:25 AM »
hahahhaha

unsa man ni kinahanglan naman sad ko ug reading 101 ani!

hhahahahha

Linkback: https://tubagbohol.mikeligalig.com/index.php?topic=11420.0

Lorenzo

  • SUPREME COURT
  • THE LEGEND
  • *****
  • Posts: 54226
  • Be the change you want to see in the world...
    • View Profile
Re: Question and Answer about the Bible
« Reply #32 on: April 09, 2008, 06:04:03 AM »
On the contrary, Matthew is referred multiple times by biblical scholars, particularly in the Catholic Church.


Matthew 19:9-12:

Jesus is recorded as promoting celibacy, but only for those who can handle it. It was a teaching added onto a statement about divorce:

    "And I say unto you, Whosoever shall put away his wife, except it be for fornication, and shall marry another, committeth adultery: and whoso marrieth her which is put away doth commit adultery."

    "His disciples say unto him, If the case of the man be so with his wife, it is not good to marry."

    "But he said unto them, All men cannot receive this saying, save they to whom it is given."

    "For there are some eunuchs, which were so born from their mother's womb: and there are some eunuchs, which were made eunuchs of men: and there be eunuchs, which have made themselves eunuchs for the kingdom of heaven's sake. He that is able to receive it, let him receive it."

Jesus identifies three groups of males for whom the unmarried state is better:
1) Those men without functioning genitals capable of impregnating a woman.
2)Those who have been intentionally castrated
3)Those who voluntarily abstain from sexual relations with women.

Charles Laymon's "The Interpreter's one-volume commentary on the Bible" suggest that at least the third option was added by later writers and scribes and is not something that Jesus advocated. Laymon comments that the words:

    "Eunuchs who have made themselves eunuchs for the sake of the kingdom of heaven have [occasionally] been taken literally. This was true in the case of Origen, the learned biblical scholar of the church in Alexandria in the early 3rd century. But the saying likely reflects the growing tendency of the church, even by the end of the first century, to regard abstinence from the marriage relationship as a sign of holiness. The passage tells us about the early church; it reveals nothing about the attitude of Jesus towards marriage."

-

Paul writes to the Christian church at Corinth about marriage. That group was composed of former Jews Roman Pagans and Greek Pagans -- each with their own marriage customs. He suggests that celibacy is a preferred choice.

    1 Corinthians 7:1-2: ...  It is good for a man not to touch a woman.

    Nevertheless, to avoid fornication, let every man have his own wife, and let every woman have her own husband.

    1 Corinthians 7:7-9: For I would that all men were even as I myself. But every man hath his proper gift of God, one after this manner, and another after that.

    I say therefore to the unmarried and widows, It is good for them if they abide even as I.

    But if they cannot contain, let them marry: for it is better to marry than to burn.

He does not promote the unmarried, sexually inactive state as a general principle, but only to those to whom God has given the gift of celibacy.

-

Revelation 14:1-5:

This passage discusses 144,000 singers during the end times, who seem to be given an preferential status because they are virgins who were "undefiled with women." They follow Jesus wherever he goes. "And in their mouth was found no guile: for they are without fault before the throne of God." The implication is that sexual activity is polluting.

Some theologians have suggested that the 144,000 were free of spiritual fornication -- e.g. accepting some heresy or practicing some form of idolatry. However, this seems like a stretch, because verse four specifically mentions being undefiled with women. These verses probably reflect the growing anti-sexual movement in the early Church near the end of the 1st century CE when the Book of Revelation was probably written.

The Bible teaches that most people are happiest in a loving, supportive, committed marriage relationship. However, if a person can handle celibacy, then is is an alternative and perhaps a preferred option.



Linkback: https://tubagbohol.mikeligalig.com/index.php?topic=11420.0
www.trip.com - Hassle-free planning of your next trip

Lorenzo

  • SUPREME COURT
  • THE LEGEND
  • *****
  • Posts: 54226
  • Be the change you want to see in the world...
    • View Profile
Re: Question and Answer about the Bible
« Reply #33 on: April 09, 2008, 06:08:56 AM »
The following is the Catholic Church's Stance on Celibacy
Taken from the following web site:
http://www.catholic.com/library/Celibacy_and_the_Priesthood.asp


The Stance:


Another Fundamentalist argument, related to the last, is that marriage is mandatory for Church leaders. For Paul says a bishop must be "the husband of one wife," and "must manage his own household well, keeping his children submissive and respectful in every way; for if a man does not know how to manage his own household, how can he care for God’s Church?" (1 Tim. 3:2, 4–5). This means, they argue, that only a man who has demonstrably looked after a family is fit to care for God’s Church; an unmarried man, it is implied, is somehow untried or unproven.

This interpretation leads to obvious absurdities. For one, if "the husband of one wife" really meant that a bishop had to be married, then by the same logic "keeping his children submissive and respectful in every way" would mean that he had to have children. Childless husbands (or even fathers of only one child, since Paul uses the plural) would not qualify.

In fact, following this style of interpretation to its final absurdity, since Paul speaks of bishops meeting these requirements (not of their having met them, or of candidates for bishop meeting them), it would even follow that an ordained bishop whose wife or children died would become unqualified for ministry! Clearly such excessive literalism must be rejected.

The theory that Church leaders must be married also contradicts the obvious fact that Paul himself, an eminent Church leader, was single and happy to be so. Unless Paul was a hypocrite, he could hardly have imposed a requirement on bishops which he did not himself meet. Consider, too, the implications regarding Paul’s positive attitude toward celibacy in 1 Corinthians 7: the married have worldly anxieties and divided interests, yet only they are qualified to be bishops; whereas the unmarried have single-minded devotion to the Lord, yet are barred from ministry!

The suggestion that the unmarried man is somehow untried or unproven is equally absurd. Each vocation has its own proper challenges: the celibate man must exercise "self-control" (1 Cor. 7:9); the husband must love and care for his wife selflessly (Eph. 5:25); and the father must raise his children well (1 Tim. 3:4). Every man must meet Paul’s standard of "managing his household well," even if his "household" is only himself. If anything, the chaste celibate man meets a higher standard than the respectable family man.

Clearly, the point of Paul’s requirement that a bishop be "the husband of one wife" is not that he must have one wife, but that he must have only one wife. Expressed conversely, Paul is saying that a bishop must not have unruly or undisciplined children (not that he must have children who are well behaved), and must not be married more than once (not that he must be married).

The truth is, it is precisely those who are uniquely "concerned about the affairs of the Lord" (1 Cor. 7:32), those to whom it has been given to "renounce marriage for the sake of the kingdom" (Matt. 19:12), who are ideally suited to follow in the footsteps of those who have "left everything" to follow Christ (cf. Matt. 19:27)—the calling of the clergy and consecrated religious (i.e., monks and nuns).

Thus Paul warned Timothy, a young bishop, that those called to be "soldiers" of Christ must avoid "civilian pursuits": "Share in suffering as a good soldier of Christ Jesus. No soldier on service gets entangled in civilian pursuits, since his aim is to satisfy the one who enlisted him" (2 Tim. 2:3–4). In light of Paul’s remarks in 1 Corinthians 7 about the advantages of celibacy, marriage and family clearly stand out in connection with these "civilian pursuits."

An example of ministerial celibacy can also be seen in the Old Testament. The prophet Jeremiah, as part of his prophetic ministry, was forbidden to take a wife: "The word of the Lord came to me: ‘You shall not take a wife, nor shall you have sons or daughters in this place’" (Jer. 16:1–2). Of course, this is different from Catholic priestly celibacy, which is not divinely ordained; yet the divine precedent still supports the legitimacy of the human institution.

Linkback: https://tubagbohol.mikeligalig.com/index.php?topic=11420.0
www.trip.com - Hassle-free planning of your next trip

Lorenzo

  • SUPREME COURT
  • THE LEGEND
  • *****
  • Posts: 54226
  • Be the change you want to see in the world...
    • View Profile
Re: Question and Answer about the Bible
« Reply #34 on: April 09, 2008, 06:14:01 AM »
From the same source:

Most Catholics marry, and all Catholics are taught to venerate marriage as a holy institution—a sacrament, an action of God upon our souls; one of the holiest things we encounter in this life.

In fact, it is precisely the holiness of marriage that makes celibacy precious; for only what is good and holy in itself can be given up for God as a sacrifice. Just as fasting presupposes the goodness of food, celibacy presupposes the goodness of marriage. To despise celibacy, therefore, is to undermine marriage itself—as the early Fathers pointed out.

Celibacy is also a life-affirming institution. In the Old Testament, where celibacy was almost unknown, the childless were often despised by others and themselves; only through children, it was felt, did one acquire value. By renouncing marriage, the celibate affirms the intrinsic value of each human life in itself, regardless of offspring.

Finally, celibacy is an eschatological sign to the Church, a living-out in the present of the universal celibacy of heaven: "For in the resurrection they neither marry nor are given in marriage, but are like angels in heaven" (Matt. 22:30).

Linkback: https://tubagbohol.mikeligalig.com/index.php?topic=11420.0
www.trip.com - Hassle-free planning of your next trip

hazel

  • Guest
Re: Question and Answer about the Bible
« Reply #35 on: April 09, 2008, 01:46:17 PM »

Dong, all these quoted statements never point to the biblical basis for roman catholic priestly celibacy. These are all interpretations and per se never contain any direct biblical citation that Jesus indeed willed that the ministers of His church should be unmarried. Precisely, the whole context of Matthew 19:10-13 was on Jesus' exhortations on marriage. It was not a text focused on celibacy. The mention of celibacy was just corollary to the whole theme of the sanctity of marriage hence issue on priestly celibacy could not be deduced from such text. Remember that our topic here is biblical foundation of priestly celibacy not how the church interprets it. I was asking for a direct, obvious, clear mandate from our Lord that...His ministers should be unmarried. We'll just be going around in circles because, in reality, no such text exists!

Don't get me wrong, dong. I believe and I adhere to the sanction of priestly celibacy. "To be able to serve the Lord with an undivided heart". This is what celibacy is all about. But whatever merit or credit this principle contains, we can never pick out a biblical passage that commands priestly celibacy. That just proves another fundamental truth about our faith dong. We don't rely only on Sacred Scripture. We have our Sacred Tradition...

Both go hand in hand and are inseparable. Where sacred scripture is found wanting, sacred tradition completes. One thing our protestant brothers would find very difficult to understand. As to the issue at hand, foundations for priestly celibacy fall under Sacred Tradition and not on Sacred Scripture. Be it so, it is still equally valid and all-out divinely willed truth as much as sacred scripture is.

I rest my case...

Linkback: https://tubagbohol.mikeligalig.com/index.php?topic=11420.0

Lorenzo

  • SUPREME COURT
  • THE LEGEND
  • *****
  • Posts: 54226
  • Be the change you want to see in the world...
    • View Profile
Re: Question and Answer about the Bible
« Reply #36 on: April 09, 2008, 02:17:44 PM »
I agree and I acquiesce my stance.

I also agree with you full-heartedly that sacred tradition and sacred scripture go hand in hand.

With that, I bow to your strong understanding of biblical scripture, 'te.




Linkback: https://tubagbohol.mikeligalig.com/index.php?topic=11420.0
www.trip.com - Hassle-free planning of your next trip

kiamoy

  • EXECUTIVE
  • GURU
  • *****
  • Posts: 8854
  • kiss me thru the phone..
    • View Profile
Re: Question and Answer about the Bible
« Reply #37 on: April 09, 2008, 08:07:38 PM »
huhu .. shame on me.. i know nothing about the bible.. but i swear! i have faith in God..

Linkback: https://tubagbohol.mikeligalig.com/index.php?topic=11420.0
Na-try mo na ba yung Tala app? Reliable sa unexpected expenses at laking tulong sa future! Use this code 9SO1TSL or visit www.tala.com to sign up!

if you can't quit, then please help warn the kids..
support Picture-Based Health Warning Bill  => https://www.ash.org.ph/

hazel

  • Guest
Re: Question and Answer about the Bible
« Reply #38 on: April 09, 2008, 08:08:38 PM »

Bem, ang imo diay ReEd sa USC?

Linkback: https://tubagbohol.mikeligalig.com/index.php?topic=11420.0

kiamoy

  • EXECUTIVE
  • GURU
  • *****
  • Posts: 8854
  • kiss me thru the phone..
    • View Profile
Re: Question and Answer about the Bible
« Reply #39 on: April 09, 2008, 08:18:50 PM »
reed? uhmm, ay ou! the cREed ang book,.. nah.. i mean cge ko ato late.. and then on the second sem..he was a pervert so cge nalang ko textext..kana gane mga padung pari nga pagawson lang sa sa seminaryu if sure jud them.. asa ka cge pangayu amo number..amft..

Linkback: https://tubagbohol.mikeligalig.com/index.php?topic=11420.0
Na-try mo na ba yung Tala app? Reliable sa unexpected expenses at laking tulong sa future! Use this code 9SO1TSL or visit www.tala.com to sign up!

if you can't quit, then please help warn the kids..
support Picture-Based Health Warning Bill  => https://www.ash.org.ph/

unionbank online loan application low interest, credit card, easy and fast approval

Tags: