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Wadje is no longer a popular name in Bohol
« on: April 11, 2008, 11:10:44 AM »
By Rudan Alberto Matig-a

Wadje is no longer a popular name in Bohol. All of the people, or if not the majority don’t know or ignore the meaning of Wadje. I believe the place got its name from the families of Indians living in Wadje before, who populated the barrios of Manga, Taloto and Ubujan. The Penaflors, the Zamoras, the Matuods and the Tabacos who lived in Taloto, Manga and Ubujan probably came from Wadje before Tagbilaran became a full fledge municipality. The decision to change the name of Wadje to Nuestra Senora de la Paz is like burning a bridge that connects us to the past.

The brisk construction of churches and watch towers in Bohol were done in the 18th century when Moro slave raids were also rampant. My Lola Iya Awing told me a story that whenever the people of Panglao sighted a Moro vinta they will start a fire to signal the watch tower in Punta Cruz that the Moros are coming. I found out later that there are many watch towers in Bohol strategically located that fire signal in Punta Cruz can also be seen clearly in Cebu.   

When the population of Tagbilaran grew in the first quarter of the 19th century the Spaniards and the mestizos transferred residences and built their stone houses in sitio Ubos because, during those times there was a way of life between the Spaniards/Mestizos and the native Tagbilaranons that were not compatible to each other. The natives lived a primitive way of life. The natives ate snakes, scorpions and locusts. They gathered larvae of beetles from dead coconut trees, honey from sweet ants [tam-is tam-is] and honey from honey bees for food. They hunted deers, wild pigs, wild chickens, wild cats, lizards like hao and ibid also for food. This way of life did not go well with the Spaniards and that unknowingly among the people a racial divide was created in Tagbilaran.

This racial divide from all indications did not happen only in Bohol but it happened all over the Philippines. It was not felt by all the people even until the second half of the 20th century. The discrimination that happened but we did not feel it is like this; in the 1960’s when you apply as a salesman with Coca-Cola, San Miguel or La Tondena, you cannot be accepted if you are not a Mestizo. If you fill up an application form for employment it is hard for you to be accepted if you are a Muslim or an Iglesia ni Cristo because you are asked what religion do you belong. The application form also says; “Come if you have a pleasing personality”. If you are ugly or “maot ug nawong” porbidang pataya di ka madawat sa trabaho.

Daghang salamat!

R.A. Matig-a   

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Re: Wadje is no longer a popular name in Bohol
« Reply #1 on: April 11, 2008, 06:12:14 PM »

Honestly, I didn't know what Wadje means until I read this topic.

This is very informative. Thanks for posting, Mike.

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Tagbilaran... A Glimpse
« Reply #2 on: April 11, 2008, 07:19:06 PM »

Tagbilaran… A Glimpse

Tagbilaran church:

St. Joseph Cathedral now is not what it used to be when I was a child. An American who visited Bohol in 1900 looked in awe at the churches in Bohol arrayed with gold and ivory of saints and altars that can rival the great cathedral of Europe. The ceiling of the church in Tagbilaran is adorned with glass and crystal chandeliers. The riches found in churches all over Bohol are in stark contrast to the people living only in their nipa hut. I know what this American is talking about. The people give more for the salvation of their souls than their luxury of living.

Sixty years then when my Lola Iya Awing took me to church twice a week the chandeliers were still there. There were four of them. The biggest is the one that hanged from the dome shape ceiling of the church. It was a beautiful chandelier in blue and white crystals. The loft for the big organ is located at the median from the choir loft. The pulpit was once located at the base corner of the dome and the east wing of the church. There was a big antique door we called “puerta mayor”. The church is shaped like a cross but you cannot detect it anymore because of so many renovations.  Some years back there were five altars including the main altar. There were two altars to each wing. They took away the two altars at the west wing and one altar from the east wing was detached and transferred to the west wing facing the congregation. At present you will see three altars.

The bell tower has no changes since they put a smooth surface on the dome of the steeple.

The old “kumbento” does not exist anymore. The late Mons. Manuel Mascarinas DD transformed it into a palace. The old kumbento was very much smaller that the Bishop’s Palace today. It had a gate and a concrete steps down to sitio Ubos for residents having easy access to the church. When it was demolished, I found out that the walls were made of hardened fibrous materials reinforced with bamboo slats. [lipak] It looks like concrete but it’s not. The flooring is hardened limestone. [anapog]

Daghang salamat!

R.A. Matig-a       

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Re: Wadje is no longer a popular name in Bohol
« Reply #3 on: April 12, 2008, 06:14:08 AM »
Oh my God!  Mr. Way Nada, are you back? Wow, I was just gonna "unearth" our previous discussion because Lorenzo and I both miss you and here I noticed you have a new post!  Thank you for coming back!  Please always stay with us whenever you can!
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Re: Wadje is no longer a popular name in Bohol
« Reply #4 on: April 12, 2008, 04:29:58 PM »
By Rudan Alberto Matig-a[/b]

Wadje is no longer a popular name in Bohol. All of the people, or if not the majority don’t know or ignore the meaning of Wadje. I believe the place got its name from the families of Indians living in Wadje before, who populated the barrios of Manga, Taloto and Ubujan. The Penaflors, the Zamoras, the Matuods and the Tabacos who lived in Taloto, Manga and Ubujan probably came from Wadje before Tagbilaran became a full fledge municipality. The decision to change the name of Wadje to Nuestra Senora de la Paz is like burning a bridge that connects us to the past.

The brisk construction of churches and watch towers in Bohol were done in the 18th century when Moro slave raids were also rampant. My Lola Iya Awing told me a story that whenever the people of Panglao sighted a Moro vinta they will start a fire to signal the watch tower in Punta Cruz that the Moros are coming. I found out later that there are many watch towers in Bohol strategically located that fire signal in Punta Cruz can also be seen clearly in Cebu.   

When the population of Tagbilaran grew in the first quarter of the 19th century the Spaniards and the mestizos transferred residences and built their stone houses in sitio Ubos because, during those times there was a way of life between the Spaniards/Mestizos and the native Tagbilaranons that were not compatible to each other. The natives lived a primitive way of life. The natives ate snakes, scorpions and locusts. They gathered larvae of beetles from dead coconut trees, honey from sweet ants [tam-is tam-is] and honey from honey bees for food. They hunted deers, wild pigs, wild chickens, wild cats, lizards like hao and ibid also for food. This way of life did not go well with the Spaniards and that unknowingly among the people a racial divide was created in Tagbilaran.

This racial divide from all indications did not happen only in Bohol but it happened all over the Philippines. It was not felt by all the people even until the second half of the 20th century. The discrimination that happened but we did not feel it is like this; in the 1960’s when you apply as a salesman with Coca-Cola, San Miguel or La Tondena, you cannot be accepted if you are not a Mestizo. If you fill up an application form for employment it is hard for you to be accepted if you are a Muslim or an Iglesia ni Cristo because you are asked what religion do you belong. The application form also says; “Come if you have a pleasing personality”. If you are ugly or “maot ug nawong” porbidang pataya di ka madawat sa trabaho.

Daghang salamat!

R.A. Matig-a   

Very interesting read.

I enjoyed reading about the Hispanization of the Philippines on a local level, particularly my native Bohol.

Mr. Matig-a,

The intricacies of Hispanization isn't only limited to the Philippines. You should read the early reports of what happened in Latin America during the 17th-18th centuries.

Spain completely hispanicized that region, erasing most of the region's amer-indian cultural solidity.

The Philippines experienced only partial hispanization and was limited due to the shear distance of the islands. Additionally, the massive Spanish migration to the new world (latin and south america) was due to the incentives of riches in gold, ivory, spices, and fertile land for the growth of encomiendas (large farming estates).

The only reason why Spanish migration to the Philippines was limited was due to the percieved lack of resources in the islands. On the contrary, the Philippines was the destination and target of Hispanic Catholic Evangelization of the early 18th to late 19th centuries. The inquisition that took place in Spain in the 16th century was transferred to Nueva Espana and later arrived in the Philippines in the 18th century to combat the rampant paganistic superstition of the Malay natives.

Filipinas was a hive for christian activity, and after that foundation was acquired, hispanic migration manifested as a result of the Filipina-Hispana trade otherwise known as the "Acapulco Trade"


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Re: Wadje is no longer a popular name in Bohol
« Reply #5 on: April 12, 2008, 11:47:07 PM »
I was curious about the Wadje family. So, I run a search about this family in India. I found that this family name still exists and flourishing in India. Not only that, they are brilliant and known internationally in the field or science and technology.

Here are some of them:
1. S.S. Wadje : Co-author of "New fragmentation pathways in the electron impact mass spectrometry of derivatized pyrano-1,3-diphenylprop-2-enones"
2. Rajendra Wadje : Lead Consultant at Headstrong
3. Mr. Sandip Wadje, Asst. Director - Software Technology Parks (Leading Software developer for Aviation and Aerospace).

They evolved into scientist, programmers, economist,etc.

Since one of our members here Grazie Zamora Pitoy and Joey Tabacco are probably descendants of the Wadje clan from Mangga, this explains where they have inherited their brilliance.
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Re: Wadje is no longer a popular name in Bohol
« Reply #6 on: April 12, 2008, 11:51:22 PM »
I never knew that Indians actually settled in the Philippines prior to Hispanization. I only thought they traded with local ports.

Nice.

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Re: Wadje is no longer a popular name in Bohol
« Reply #7 on: April 13, 2008, 01:41:33 AM »

Macks, you give me a chill that you even think I am one of the decendants of the Wadje!  First, I got so flat nose! hahahaha  Bitaw, Macks.  The Zamora in our family is my great grandparents.  And yes, there are lots of brilliant Zamoras like Nerio Zamora and now the young NerZam aka Butchie but I am nowhere close.  But thank you for considering me as one!  Friends jud diay ta Macks! hehehehe

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Re: Wadje is no longer a popular name in Bohol
« Reply #8 on: April 13, 2008, 01:54:54 AM »
I was curious about the Wadje family. So, I run a search about this family in India. I found that this family name still exists and flourishing in India. Not only that, they are brilliant and known internationally in the field or science and technology.

Here are some of them:
1. S.S. Wadje : Co-author of "New fragmentation pathways in the electron impact mass spectrometry of derivatized pyrano-1,3-diphenylprop-2-enones"
2. Rajendra Wadje : Lead Consultant at Headstrong
3. Mr. Sandip Wadje, Asst. Director - Software Technology Parks (Leading Software developer for Aviation and Aerospace).

They evolved into scientist, programmers, economist,etc.

Since one of our members here Grazie Zamora Pitoy and Joey Tabacco are probably descendants of the Wadje clan from Mangga, this explains where they have inherited their brilliance.

Macks, you give me a chill that you even think I am one of the decendants of the Wadje!  First, I got so flat nose! hahahaha  Bitaw, Macks.  The Zamora in our family is my great grandparents.  And yes, there are lots of brilliant Zamoras like Nerio Zamora and now the young NerZam aka Butchie but I am nowhere close.  But thank you for considering me as one!  Friends jud diay ta Macks! hehehehe
[/quote]

Ate Ging,

I think there is nothing to be ashamed and embarassed about the cute nose of a Filipina.

Natural beauty, me-thinks.


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Re: Wadje is no longer a popular name in Bohol
« Reply #9 on: April 13, 2008, 02:00:36 AM »
I know, Dong!  I am not actually embarrassed Dong  :D but when we talk of Wadje, I can almost see the prominence of their nose. :D

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Re: Wadje is no longer a popular name in Bohol
« Reply #10 on: April 13, 2008, 02:02:10 AM »
:) I've seen many white guys kissing the noses of our Filipinas. (i cant help but get jealous )

Hmmmp!


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Re: Wadje is no longer a popular name in Bohol
« Reply #11 on: April 13, 2008, 02:07:46 AM »
hahahaha Find yourself a Filipina with cute nose, Dong, and also, she better be smart too otherwise she will get bored to your brilliance - as what Macky said!

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Re: Wadje is no longer a popular name in Bohol
« Reply #12 on: April 13, 2008, 02:09:53 AM »
Can you help me find me one, Ate Ging?

There are so many Filipinas in California. Here in the east coast, I can't help but get depressed whenever I find out that there is a Filipina, but already taken by a white guy. 

Argg!

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Re: Wadje is no longer a popular name in Bohol
« Reply #13 on: April 13, 2008, 02:12:13 AM »
By Rudan Alberto Matig-a[/b]

Wadje is no longer a popular name in Bohol. All of the people, or if not the majority don’t know or ignore the meaning of Wadje. I believe the place got its name from the families of Indians living in Wadje before, who populated the barrios of Manga, Taloto and Ubujan. The Penaflors, the Zamoras, the Matuods and the Tabacos who lived in Taloto, Manga and Ubujan probably came from Wadje before Tagbilaran became a full fledge municipality. The decision to change the name of Wadje to Nuestra Senora de la Paz is like burning a bridge that connects us to the past.

   

So La Paz, the barrio next to Manga used to be called Wadje?

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Re: Wadje is no longer a popular name in Bohol
« Reply #14 on: April 13, 2008, 02:13:29 AM »

Dong, what about when you go to Bohol?  There's a lot of cute-nosed Bol-anon!

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Re: Wadje is no longer a popular name in Bohol
« Reply #15 on: April 13, 2008, 05:00:41 AM »


The writings of history in our country are at a minimal. Historians focus their studies of Philippine history only inside the 400 year period of Spanish colonization in the Philippines. Little is known before the Spanish era giving me a sense of urgency to postulate theories as a point of dicussion that may in some ways be the basis to rectify the wrongs. In my opinion our history is hidden from us by the Spanish authorities or they deliberately distorted it of course so that future Philippine historians will focus only on their exploits and the bringing of Christianity into our country. Our present day historians [If I may say…] limit their research in the archives of Madrid and Italy where the writings of the Spanish historians or Pigafetta are found. They always overlook the time of the Majapahit and the Sri-Vijayan empires in Southeast Asia and its relation to Philippine history.

The word Sri-Vijayan… does it ring a bell?

The Boholanos are called Visayans, but where did we come from? Who were the original Visayans? If your ancestor is not a “lumad” then you descended from the original Visayans who came from the Sri-Vijayan Empire encompassing Peninsular Malaysia, Sumatra, Bali and the Kalimantan Island. Furthermore these people originated from Ceylon or Sri Lanka and Southern India. Their empire is “thalassocratic”. It means that the nature of their government is located in the sea. The Vijayan are a defeated people and they started their Diaspora in 1200 AD leaving behind the Borubudur temple in Java. They were identified as Buddhists. We have many ethnic dialects that derived from the Sri-Vijayan dialect even the names of some Filipinos who defied Spanish laws by not changing their names to Spanish are still using their original names. For example is “Bagatsing” as written in Visayan. I think this comes from the Singhalese language which is; “Bhagat Singh”. The word “bhay” means brother. This is the word we use to address a person who is stranger to us in a different accent which is “bay”. But we have another word for “bay” or brother which is “igsoon”. This also explains the sea nomad called the “Bajao”. Sri-Vijayan is also Sri-Bhoja. The Bajao people pray to Buddha as it is their original religion.

 The Spaniards when they arrived, everywhere they went in the Central Philippines the people already called themselves as Vijayan. I once read in the Philippine Free Press that the island of Leyte was formerly called Ceylon. In some parts of the Visayas there were also rumors of migration of “datus” from Borneo especially in Panay. A legendary story brought to Panay a golden salakot from Borneo. If this migration is true I believe this can be very much a part of the Diaspora of the Vijayan.               

Philippine history is inflated of conflicting historical passages which we consider it as true but behind it there is something inside that nags questioning its authenticity and its truthfulness.

Legaspi’s landing in the Philippines:

The landing of Legaspi in Cebu posed a disturbing question. Rajah Tupas of Cebu being hostile to Legaspi is unusual because 44 years ago Magellan planted already the cross in Cebu and his father Rajah Humabon and his mother were baptized as Carlos and Juana in 1521. It is therefore safe to say that his son Rajah Tupas and the Cebuanos are Christian’s or else historical account of Magellan is wrong.  This conflicting reading of history is very unfortunate to us the recipients of slanted and distorted historical account chronicled by the Spaniards just for the purpose of forcing their will on us. When Legaspi sensed that he was not welcome he left Cebu and strong wind carried him to Bohol. But it also said that he had two pilots that led him to Datu Sikatuna who was living in the village of Baclayon or Hinawanan in Bohol.

The Blood Compact:

Legaspi and Datu Sikatuna met not with fanfare and celebration as true blood brothers in front of the town’s people but in a secret meeting inside the galleon San Pedro. Sikatuna having a pact with Legaspi inside the ship to me is suspicious. In my view there was no blood compact at all but Sikatuna agreed an alliance with Legaspi to put down Rajah Tupas. A blood compact is a solemn rite to be celebrated among his people. It’s an old Asian culture of promoting amity, fraternity and friendship. One month or more after the meeting Legazpi took possession of the island of Bohol in the name of the King of Spain and the Boholano chieftain Datu Sikatuna allied with Legaspi in combat and conquered the forces of Rajah Tupas. In addition historian Jes Tirol himself said something like this; “Legaspi did not forge a treaty of friendship [quote also from a town mayor in Spain] but made a tactical alliance with Sikatuna.” This is an admission that Spain was not interested in friendship but they were after a tactical alliance with Sikatuna to topple Rajah Tupas. Datu Sikatuna was made into an instrument to betray the Visayan people and handed the Philippines to Spain. The presence of extant manuscript is true but it does not necessarily mean that there was a blood compact. The written records were only a spin to cover up Sikatuna’s betrayal against the Visayan people. And this manuscript was never published until 1886-87. This is 322 years after the event happened inside the ship San Pedro.

The famous painting of the Blood Compact by Juan Luna shows a faceless Sikatuna. He only painted Legaspi and his soldiers. Poor Sikatuna his face is not too important to Juan Luna and the Europeans It’s only the back of Sikatuna is shown. “Ug camera pa ni giputlan ug liog si Sikatuna…” To be continued.

Daghang salamat!

R.A. Matig-a

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Re: Wadje is no longer a popular name in Bohol
« Reply #16 on: April 13, 2008, 05:08:11 AM »

In a discussion brief titled; “A Different View” the argument says that, the blood compact was not a formal treaty of friendship. It is admitted and it could also be interpreted, so it says, as the first formal treachery or swindling committed by the Spaniards against the Boholanos.

My view is the treachery or swindling committed by the Spaniards against the Boholanos is not much of a surprise. Swindling, treachery or trickery Legaspi as a soldier should do all what he can for the glory of his king and Spain. I am interpreting this as his sense of duty and patriotism to his country.

If there were anomalies involved maybe it was on the part committed by Datu Sikatuna? I believe it was Datu Sikatuna who sold us for 30 pieces of silver to the Spaniards. The years from 1563 to 1565 when the name of Datu Sikatuna is active in Philippine history I tag him as the conspirator in putting down the Vijayans. Datu Sikatuna was not a Vijayan but a vassal of a Hindu king from the Majapahit Empire. The Spaniards called us “indios” because the Majapahit and Vijayans are of the same stock of people, coming from the south of India and Sri Lanka. While they may be the same people they don’t have the same cultural and religious background. Sikatuna is Hindu while Humabon of Cebu, Datu Dalisdisan and Pagbuaya are maybe of different belief, or Buddhist. Tribal wars among the people living in Bohol at that time were caused primarily by religion. 

The Dauis and Mansasa massacre:

By classifying the cultural and religious background of the people living in the Visayan Islands we can now see an outline why there was a massacre of villagers in Dauis and Mansasa. I have this idea that Datu Sikatuna and the two chiefs of Dauis and Mansasa, Pagbuaya and Dalisdisan cannot meet eyeball to eyeball because of religious differences. Datu Sikatuna’s eagerness to go to war against them is held back by the weakness of his forces against the combined forces of Dalisdisan and Pagbuaya, so he sought the help of the Ternateans or the Purtuguese. The death of Dalisdisan in that tribal war caused Pagbuaya to flee to Dapitan.

I cannot buy the notion held by historians that a combined force of Portuguese and Ternateans plundered Dauis and Mansasa because, if there should be a village to be plundered along the coast of Bohol facing Mindanao, it should be Baclayon or Albur which are very much visible to the naked eye from the ocean. If you conduct an ocular inspection of Dauis and Mansasa you will find these two as secluded places hidden away from people navigating the open sea, except perhaps if there is a Boholano insider telling pirates and marauders from foreign lands that there are Vijayans living there. [Dauis and Mansasa]       

Hinawanan:

The water at the mouth of the river in Hinawanan, Loay is not an ideal place to celebrate a blood compact but it is a beautiful place to hide a boat away from the prying eyes of the villagers. Today’s Hinawanan can vouch of its thicker population but during the 16th century I doubt if a soul can be found there. The river in Hinawanan is a tributary to the Loboc River. That area is swampy grown with thick foliage before and until now it is prone to an overflow from the Loboc River. According to Jes Tirol a captain in Legaspi’s crew was told to survey the coastline for a deeper harbor where they can weigh down anchor. The story says that he reached the coastline of Bool but he recommended Hinawanan as the right place as it has a deep water harbor. Is it also a coincidence that the place chosen by the captain is also the place where Datu Sikatuna resided, since Jes Tirol asserted that Datu Sikatuna lived near a river? Be that as it may but in my opinion aside from its marshy character of the place the water in the river is not potable. I think the river described where Sikatuna lived near is the one at Baclayon which supplied a lot of potable water for the villagers that flowed from the upland.  To be continued…

Daghang salamat!

R.A. Matig-a

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xx - Wadje is no longer a popular name in Bohol - Tagbilaran City - Bohol
Re: Wadje is no longer a popular name in Bohol
« Reply #17 on: April 13, 2008, 05:24:35 AM »
By Rudan Alberto Matig-a

Wadje is no longer a popular name in Bohol. All of the people, or if not the majority don’t know or ignore the meaning of Wadje. I believe the place got its name from the families of Indians living in Wadje before, who populated the barrios of Manga, Taloto and Ubujan. The Penaflors, the Zamoras, the Matuods and the Tabacos who lived in Taloto, Manga and Ubujan probably came from Wadje before Tagbilaran became a full fledge municipality. The decision to change the name of Wadje to Nuestra Senora de la Paz is like burning a bridge that connects us to the past.

  

So La Paz, the barrio next to Manga used to be called Wadje?
[/quote]

Grazie,

Wadje at first was not a place but refers only to families of Indians living in that place. It became a by word that it was carried through the ages as Wadje. I'll post the message I wrote explaining about Wadje.

WN

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Re: Wadje is no longer a popular name in Bohol
« Reply #18 on: April 13, 2008, 05:31:15 AM »
By Rudan Alberto Matig-a[/b]

Wadje is no longer a popular name in Bohol. All of the people, or if not the majority don’t know or ignore the meaning of Wadje. I believe the place got its name from the families of Indians living in Wadje before, who populated the barrios of Manga, Taloto and Ubujan. The Penaflors, the Zamoras, the Matuods and the Tabacos who lived in Taloto, Manga and Ubujan probably came from Wadje before Tagbilaran became a full fledge municipality. The decision to change the name of Wadje to Nuestra Senora de la Paz is like burning a bridge that connects us to the past.

  

So La Paz, the barrio next to Manga used to be called Wadje?

Grazie,

Wadje at first was not a place but refers only to families of Indians living in that place. It became a by word that it was carried through the ages as Wadje. I'll post the message I wrote explaining about Wadje.

WN
[/quote]

Lower Mansasa was already a developed community when the Bilaans came. The Chinese were the settlers of Lower Mansasa. The Bilaans settled and developed a community called Sug-ang now a sitio of Tagbilaran. Sug-ang is a closed proximity to Lower Mansasa bordered only by a cliff. Most of the places my Lola Iya Awing mentioned during the early days of Tagbilaran were Sug-ang, Mansasa, Bool, Baclayon and also Dauis and Panglao. North Tagbilaran in the 17th century was uninhabited. The barrios of Booy, Cogon, Taloto, Ubujan and Manga came in later in the development of Tagbilaran.

A place farther up is Wadje the first barrio of Cortes from Tagbilaran.

This place escaped the scrutiny of the Spanish authority in Bohol or Wadje was not listed officially in the roster of places in the Spanish almanac in Bohol. It escaped their scrutiny because Spaniards cannot pronounce the letter “J”. If it was officially listed as a place they should have changed the name of Wadje to Spanish sounding name. Or Wadje refers only to a name of a person. Like the name Bohol, the original name is “Bojol”. Because the Spaniards cannot pronounce the letter “J” they change it to Bohol. Since the letter “H” is silent in Spanish they took it away and changed it “Bo-ol”. But by some twist of the imagination the Spaniards taught the locals that Bo-ol is a name of a tree and until now I have not seen a tree by that name.

Daghang salamat!

R.A. Matig-a 

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Re: Wadje is no longer a popular name in Bohol
« Reply #19 on: April 13, 2008, 05:32:48 AM »
I have never heard of Wadje before, until I read this thread.

But then it gives me a confusion, is it a family name or a people ???
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