MikeLigalig.com

Quote from: Lorenzo on April 30, 2011, 01:08:38 AM
They are very much wrong, Way Nada. As with anything false, we must correct them and guide them towards truth.

Kining sabadista usa kini ka kulto nga relihiyon ug parehas ra pud ni sa iglicia ni kristo. Gusto nila nga dauton ang katoliko para ang mga katoliko madani sa ilang tino-uhan.

WN

Quote from: chriswise on May 02, 2011, 08:28:46 PM
bisan pag ilobong sa libingan na mga bayani,,kay di jod siya bayani,,

Mao nay imong panghuna-huna... pero lahi na si gihuna-huna ni Gen. Douglas MacArthur ug Gen. Jonathan Wainwright. Kining duha ka heneral nga amerkano giila nila ang pagka-bayani ni Marcos panahon sa gira mao nga niadtong 1942 gipasidunggan si Marcos ug mga medalya. Daghang medalya nga pasidungog ni Marcos sa kainitan sa gira. Girekomenda pa siya ni Gen. Wainwright sa Congressional Medal of Honor sa Amerika. Kini ang kinatas-an nga medalya para sa sundalo sa Amerika.

Akong gitahud ang imong panghuna-huna nga sa imong sulti; "di jod siya bayani".

WN

Quote from: Lorenzo on May 01, 2011, 11:37:12 PM
This is a very sensitive issue and it is impossible (almost) to not step on toes in this issue. Both sides have valid points.

I acquiesce to the fact that Marcos was a corrupt politician, however, there were some good aspects about him. One thing that we all benefit from are the health centers he and Imelda helped create. For example: The Heart Institute of Asia, The Kidney Center, etc.

This is not a sensitive issue because even a dog is buried in the Libingan. The Libingan is not particularly the intended burial ground for heroes but there are categories who are to be buried there. Marcos has 4 categories to entitle his body's interment at the Libingan. The people are just too emotional of the word  "Bayani" attached to Libingan's name.  And this is the result of the media's too much demonization of the name of Marcos. Because of the mind control done by the media gullible people tend to believe that Marcos is evil.

The issue attributed to Marcos as a corrupt politician is not new to Philippine political setting. Ever since after the war any president cannot evade himself from the issue of corruption. Look at GMA... she was hailed as like the virgin Mary ascending to heaven when she deposed Erap but look what is going to happen to her now?

One of the changes that Marcos did during the time of Martial Law was the monopoly of our two important cash crop exports... which is sugar and copra. Before Martial Law these products are the source of corruption between the government and the private sector. How did they do it? It's like this... Granex [copra exporter] bought copra from the producers [the common people] and under the noses of corrupt government officials the exporter negotiated the price of copra with an importer in the high seas. Which is why in those days everybody wanted to export and be an exporter because it is easy to smuggle their products.

When he monopolized the exportation of copra and sugar Marcos made it sure that exporters are paying the right amount of taxes. This is the system that makes it easy for the government to look into the management of the export market. In sugar it's only the Nasutra and in the coconut industry the UNICOM. The role of Danding Cojuangco and Benedicto in the monopoly are another issues that we can talk about.

WN

     

Quote from: islander on February 16, 2011, 02:55:17 AM
give us a break!  what's with elder statesman enrile?  is it because he was a robusa to his own boss, marcos? 

a dictator and a known plunderer, our hero?  then robert mugabe of zimbabwe and baby doc duvalier of haiti must be heroes too.  so is indonesia's suharto.  okay, they may not be world war II heroes, but weren't marcos's own war medals questioned and laughed off as fakes? 

more, is it time for us to brace ourselves because erap and gloria will also be looked upon as heroes soon?

I think Enrile knows better than anybody else in government. Which is why Enrile said; “he [Marcos] has not been tried of any crime although there are claims about certain behaviors and venalities in his government, but that is to be judged by the people and the courts in a proper case. I think in terms of his entitlement to become a resident of the Libingan ng mga Bayani, it should not be questioned.”

He [Enrile] became the trusted lieutenant of Marcos during Martial Law. I believe Marcos was not his political enemy but others who were involved in the power struggle inside the government of Marcos. Enrile was a part of the struggle.

The people as a fence sitters are always controlled by the media and whatever the media wants us to believe we readily devour it hook, line and sinker. But not me... which is why in any political forum my opinion will come out different. I can create my own opinion. The media is not much of an influence to me especially when it comes to the issue with regards to Marcos and Erap.

The issue that "marcos's own war medals questioned and laughed off as fakes"... is as ridiculous and absurdly preposterous as it is contrary to reason. How can it be fake medals when these medals were awarded to Marcos in 1942 and this is in the heat of WW-II. It was the Americans especially Gen. Wainwright who recommended Marcos to receive the congressional medal of honor of the United States.

The issue about "fake" medals was propagated by the late Gov. Bonifacio Gillego; a staunch critic of Marcos and together with the publisher of We-Forum Joe Burgos he printed the issue of Marcos war medals as "fake". This happened during the Martial Law days. First Gillego went to the WW-II archives in Nebraska asking for the records of Marcos but he was not given access to the records... so he invented his own story of the fake medals. The same day his story saw print in the We-Forum of Joe Burgos he flew to the US to escape.

Dili ba matawag nga ga-pinusong ni si Bonifacio Gillego? Gitonto niya ang mga tawo.

WN
         

Quote from: Raquelproud boholana on February 23, 2011, 12:28:32 PM
Murag tinuod ni Vince nga ing serve siya as guirella/military during WWII kay naay history sa among isla nga sa gira kono sa mga hapon didto ni sila nanago or gitaguan sila sa murag maoy adunahan nga personahe sa amoa nga naay lumber yard ang apilyedo Davis. Ako sa tong pangutan on ug balik ang historian sa among island heheheh kay very interesting kaayo paminawon nga story. Dugay dugay daw ni si Ferdi Marcos nagtago sa amoang baryo oi unya na shock ra ang mga nakaila niya sa amoa sa dihang na president ni siya. Base on his story murag authentic man gyud to 

Diay akong isulti nimo agi ug palamdag sa imong pagtoo ug duda kabahin sa kaagi ni Marcos. Tinood ang imong sulti nga nagsilbi siya nga gerilya sa ikaduhang gira sa kalibutan. Kanang imong pung nga nagtago tinood pud na... kay si Marcos hing abot sa lungsod sa Tubigon niadtong panahon sa gira ug gidakop siya sa usa ka detachment head sa Tubigon nga ang ngan si Jose Bernaldez. Nagpakita si Marcos ug ID nga usa siya ka "intelligent officer" ug naay misyon niya "to contact" Cor. Wendell Fertig. Para masiguro nga tinood ning iyang pung si Jose"Pepe" Bernaldez mikontak usab ni Lt. Ismael Ingeniero ug si Lt. Ingeniero na ang nagradyo ni Cor. Fertig sa tuyo ni Marcos. Laktud pagkasulti wa na siya moderetso sa Mindanao diin didto ang headquarters ni Cor. Fertig.

Karon kanang imong giingon nga nagtago... tungod kay gahuwat siya sa resulta sa iyang misyon mikuyog siya ni Pepe Bernaldez nga gahimo'g tagoanan nila sa baryo Matabao, Tubigon. Ug magabii adto sila sa bay ni Mario Rama ug adlaw para dili sila makita sa hapon adto sila sa pagatpatan sa Matabao.

Mao pud ni hinungdan nga sa panahon sa proclamation ni Marcos adto gyud himoa niya sa Bohol... ug si Pepe Bernaldez ang iyang kalingaw pangitaon. Ug kini si Mario Rama pagka presidente ni Marcos gi-appoint niya ni nga Chairman sa PCSO. Si Pepe Bernaldez nagpabilin sa Bohol ug naay iyang tuyo ni Marcos dili na ni siya makipag appointment kay wa man siya ilhi sa mga ga-alirong ni Marcos. Kundi mobasa lang siya sa dyaryo ug asang hotel ang speaking engagment ni Marcos ug magpakita lang siya sa iyang nawong samtang naglakaw si Marcos paingon sud sa hotel unya tawgon dayon sija ni Marcos apil sa presidential table. 

WN

Trivia question:

The verses below... where can we find in the New Testament?

“[X] shall be great upon the earth. [O king, all (people) shall] make [peace], and all shall serve [him. He shall be called the son of] the [G]reat [God], and by his name shall he be hailed (as) the Son of God, and they shall call him Son of the Most High.” (Dead Sea scrolls manuscript Q4Q246)[33]


The Damascus Document says: "Let no man help a beast to give birth on the Sabbath day; and if it fall into a cistern or into a pit, let it not be lifted out on the Sabbath."

WN

Quote from: statesville on March 29, 2011, 02:46:48 AM
I'm aware of this calculation pointing to a certain leader as I'd read in the Mystery Babylon book,
I'm not afraid of him either, kay mas gamhanan ang Ginoo kay sa tawo..

Ang mga sabadista nag-una ini. Ang ilang boot pasabot nga nakasuwat kuno na sa tiara sa Santo Papa. Pero dili tinood kundi butang-butang lang.

WN

 
     
This is the irony in the life of Marcos because the perceived wrongdoings and allegation of corruption attributed to him and his family have been designed to erase his name in the pages of Philippine history. This un-Filipino way of treating Marcos stemmed not from the culture of our people but I believe this is a culture of the illustrado. As my older folks narrated to us; this alien culture came from Europe and introduced by the Spaniards to a few Filipinos especially people who came from peninsular Spain and the Filipino mestizos. It was also brought to the province of Bohol. This culture was a kind of apartheid and most of the Tagbilaranons abhorred it. They coined this cultural division as; "taga ubos ug taga ibabaw". The "taga ubos" were only a few and because of inter-marriages between the "taga ubos and taga ibabaw" we fused together to become one people.

But not so long ago I witnessed with my own eyes twice the cultural division displayed by the people during Edsa I and Edsa II. This is the scenario as narrated by my uncles and my lola as it happened in a small town as Tagbilaran.

The Philippines Free Press again as it was before Martial Law is a staunch Marcos critic. Today the PFF don't have a living Marcos to be lambasted by their columnists. What they have is only a corpse but still the hatred won't stop. The PFF wants Marcos body to be buried in the Libingan with only the word "soldier" to be written in his tombstone... sort of hiding his grave away from the people. Just like Jose Rizal our national hero was buried in an unmarked grave... the Spanish authority wanted his grave unknown to the people. They put his initial in reversed as; "RPJ". I can see the coincidence if the PFF idea is to be followed.

I'm quite amused by the acceptance of the PFF that; "Marcos fought for the country’s freedom"... but it continues to say that Marcos "contrived to suppress [that] our freedom"; which is wrong! Marcos did not create the situation to suppress our freedom. The situation was created by the NPA when they bombed the Liberal Party rally at Plaza Miranda. Marcos is a patriot and he did not want our country to be devoured by Communism which is an alien ideology to the Filipinos. He knows of a threat by the NPA, so he took a preemptive action ahead of the NPA by declaring Martial Law.

The PFF caption says:

Was Marcos a Hero?

Answering itself... it says; No. But he was a soldier.

Explanation:

The short dialogue cum news caption is stressing a propaganda line to denigrate the memory of Marcos, his life as a soldier and as an honorable person. Of course a soldier and a hero are not the same but actually the PFF caption is hiding something.

It did not ask the question; "Marcos a medal of valor awardee; is he worthy to be called a hero?"

Now the complete idea of the PFF is written below. 

The PFF wrote:

"Nearly 200 congressmen have signed the resolution. Sen. Ferdinand Marcos Jr., son of the dictator, has been pressing since February for the burial among dead soldiers of his father, who, he says, was a war hero."

Reply:

Saying that his father is a hero... I think this is another invention of the PFF. Of course if Ferdinand Marcos Jr. has the evidence that his father is a hero... I think there's no need to blow his own trumpet... but let the record shows it!

The PFF continues:

This was disputed during the campaign for the 1986 snap election. The dispute had to do with whether Marcos deserved all of the 27 war medals that he claimed he had earned. There were questions about the authenticity of those medals, but Marcos insisted they were authentic. The opposition couldn’t care lessâ€"the only thing that was in dispute was whether he deserved them all."

Reply:

The saying goes this way; "a fish is caught by its own mouth." In the same manner as the PFF saying that; "This was disputed [medals of Marcos] during the campaign for the 1986 snap election"... is like the PFF is caught by its own words. The dispute is clear that the Marcos political enemies are only taking the "medals" as the issue to denigrate him. It is my belief that Marcos deserves all the 27 war medals awarded to him.

According to Brig. Gen. Restituto Aguilar, historical consultant of the AFP Museum said; “Those who contest the authenticity of his medals should substantiate their allegations. It shall undergo investigations and should follow a process”. 

WN

Angelo Reyes the former army chief who is a traitor by defying his sworn allegiance to protect the constitution was about to be charged in court of corruption committed suicide and never give the people a chance to know whether he was guilty or not...  but interred in the Libingan anyway. Marcos wanted to face the music but never given a chance for his day in court.

The Philippine government charged him in a Seattle court of accepting bribe from Westinghouse Inc.. The court decided in favor of Marcos and Westinghouse Inc. agreeing to Westinghouse Inc. that the 10 million dollars given as commission to Marcos is not a bribe but the money is a commission. This is a policy of Westinghouse Inc. and I agree also because even in our country commission is legal.

Imelda was also charged in New York of R.I.C.O. case but was pronounced innocent by the court. The court argue that the sin of Marcos is not the sin of Imelda.

AFP Regulations G 161-373: “Allocation of Cemetery Plots at the LNMB”, which was issued on April 9, 1986 by GHQ under then AFP Chief of Staff General Fidel V. Ramos and then President Corazon C. Aquino, as amended by AFP Regulations G 161-375 on September 11, 2000, is the set of regulations that govern the interment at the LNMB."  

Marcos deserves to be buried in the LNMB because... according to the former senator Ernesto Macedo; "former President Marcos is entitled to be interred at the LNMB because he belongs to not one but four categories in the allocation of plots at the Libingan."

â€" As Medal of Valor awardee

â€" As former President

â€" As former Secretary of National Defense

â€" As veteran of World War 2

This is the truth about Marcos and I hope this will put him to rest at the Libingan ng mga Bayani. He maybe a villain to some but a hero to the vast majority of the people. Let us try to live with it.

Marcos and Erap were disgraced and demonized by the media. They did not disgrace their honor.

WN

Obama's citizenship was not asked first by the "birthers", Donald Trump or the Republicans but it was questioned by Hillary Clinton during the debate in the democratic primaries where Clinton was contesting Obama for the nomination.
But this issue was ignored by the liberal media during the campaign for fear of political correctness.

When the media ignored the citizenship issue Donald Trump did not let it slip away. The Americans should be proud of Donald Trump for his courage to not let the issue dies down but pressured Obama to open his citizenship to the public.

I for one as a Filipino who knows the characteristic of Muslim minority in the south of the Philippines who are know for their stubborn refusal to register their children with the government. The same with the father of Obama who is a muslim that it is in their culture that if they don't like the government they don't give a damn if their son is in the registry book. Of course it is not the fault of Obama but the people has the right to doubt. 

WN
   

I don't think so... but all I know about Muslims in the Philippines were kidnappers. They victimized natives in Northern Mindanao like the Manobos and the Bila'an and sold them as slaves to the sultanate of Sulo and Brunei.

Slave trade is the most lucrative business during that time... so when the British East India Trading Co. knew that slaves are traded in that part of the world they put up office in Borneo. They bought slaves to work in the sugar plantation in Fiji, Queensland or work as pearl divers in Western Australia.

The British East India Co. paid rent to the Sultanate of Sulo but after WW-II when they knew the US will grant us independence the British East India Co. turnover its ownership to the British crown. In 1961 when British Malaya was granted independence by the British they did not return Borneo to the Philippines but they gave it to the Malysian.

But trading of silver, gold or copper? I don't know about that. Hehehe...

WN

Quote from: Lorenzo on March 27, 2011, 01:59:58 PM
The National Hero of the Philippines is Dr. Jose. P. Rizal.

Dr. Rizal's father was 100% Chinese, while his mother was a Spanish-Filipina.

Dr. Rizal was 50% Chinese, 25% Spanish and 25% Filipino.

Dr. Rizal was more Chinese than he was Malay Filipino.

Even those we recognize as our public officials in Bohol are of chinese descent like the name Clarin, Butalid, Borja, Torralba or the Boholano hero Dah go Hoy is Chinese. The names of towns and barrios of Panglao Island are of Chinese origin like Dauis, Sung Ku Lan, Toh To Lan, Tang Nan, Beh king...etc...etc...

WN

To some people there is something suspicious why Al Gore won the Nobel Peace Prize. After his defeat in the US presidential race he wrote a book the "Inconvenient Truth" and presto won the NPP without a sweat. The same thing with Barack Obama the NPP was served in a silver platter. Mahatma Ghandi was nominated three times but never won the prize. Yasser Arafat a terrorist and Mikhail gorbachev a communist are much better than Ghandi because they handily won the peace prize.

Some Filipinos wonder why Ninoy, Cory and Cardinal Sin did not win the NPP.. while Aung San Suu Kyi still languishing in jail in Burma has already won the NPP. If only Jose Maria Sison was recognized as the leader of people power revolution in the Philippines and not Cory I have this strong feeling that Joema will win the prize... because Joema's political orientation is the belief of Socialism. While Ninoy, Cory and Cardinal Sin; they are not qualified because of their political affiliation. They are not socialists.

WN

Lorenzo wrote:

In regards to the fullfillment of God's Promise to send a Messiah to Israel, the Jews , themselves, have rejected Christ Jesus. It is the gentiles that accepted Christ. As it was said that Christ was "A Light unto the Gentiles and Glory to the People of Israel".

Reply:

In my opinion the founding of Christianity happened because in Judaism where a closely knit society of the jews are defined; it is difficult for gentiles to integrate. The messiah is promised always to Israel in the old testament. This happens when the people of Israel is oppressed and in trouble with other nations. Moses and Cyrus the Great of Persia are messiahs to Israel because these men saved Israel from perdition. Messiah means savior and to the jews he is not God but a man... just like Cyrus the Great of Persia and Moses.

When the OT was translated into greek by 70 rabbis it was that opportune time for the greeks and hellenists to understand the hebrew writings. They found out that in the OT jews abhorred to intermingle with gentiles. The greeks and hellenists burned their eyebrows studying the hebrew scriptures until they were able to understand and write the NT in harmony with the scriptures of the jews... but making Christ the God of the gentiles.

This is where they are divided... Judaism which is a hebrew philosophy of worship and Christianity which is greek in origin. But this division did not start by just a snap of a finger. It took years for Christianity to develop since the Septuagint Version of the bible was written.

The jews until today reject Jesus as the Christ because in Judaism Christ has to fulfill a task for Israel. There are 10 tasks; first and foremost is for a Christ to rebuild the third temple. The question is; how can Jesus Christ rebuild the third temple when he proclaimed in the NT that his body is the temple and he is the lamb of God to be sacrificed?

There is no more solution to the division. Furthermore if you want to understand it clearly the NT is a discourse against Judaism because jews do not believe in Jesus Christ.     

Lorenzo wrote:

When Jews pray before the Wall of the Temple of Solomon and offer shabbat to God, do you think it is acknowledged?

Reply:

The wailing wall is the part of the temple of Solomon that was not destroyed by the Romans. In their diaspora it is the tradition of the jews to pray facing Jerusalem. Part of their prayer is; "next time in Jerusalem". It means that their prayer is for the rebuilding of the temple of Solomon and once restored all jews will be delivered up in Jerusalem praying to their God.

Lorenzo wrote:

I understand that the Jews are God's Chosen People and yes that God made a covenant with Abraham, however, since the Jews do not accept Jesus Christ as their Lord and Savior, will they be saved?

Reply:

It is also written in the NT that "salvation is for jews".The salvation of the jews is not [in my opinion] interpreted  solely in Judaism on spiritual salvation but it is more on social and political reason. For example in the bible their salvation always refers when the people of Israel are defeated and oppressed by other people a christ among the nations will come out. That is deliverance to them.

They do not believe Jesus Christ and they do not also believe in the new testament. According to them; christians hi-jacked the hebrew bible to be integrated with Christianity and to make their God also the God of christians. 

WN

Quote from: juliusarbizo on August 25, 2008, 12:13:59 AM
taga diin man diay ka aa? Pero ako na lang suginlan kay taga Panglao man ko. Kanang wing side nga imong giingon ang maoy daang simbahan nga sa Panglao na naguba niadtong WWII ug mao ray nahibilin ang iyang facade pero naa gihapon gibutang ang Santisima Trinidad. Kadtong "bag-ong" simbahan maoy gibutangan sa patron sa Panglao nga si Sr. San Vicente Ferrer nga maoy fiesta karong Aug.28. Happy Fiesta!

Dili tingali. kanang ruins mao na ang simbahan panahon sa una 1886. pero kanang simbahan karon nabasa nako gi-inagurahan ni Mons. Juan Gorordo of Cebu niadtong 1924. Kini man gud si Mons. Gorordo amahan ni sa akong auntie.

WN

Quote from: PR0CESS0R on October 03, 2010, 05:38:33 PM
Matud sa akong lolo, ang term nga "Panglao" spaniards daw ang nagbunyag ana kay from the word "Panggaw" kay ang mga katsila daw sauna pag abot daw nila sa Panglao, daghan mananagat nga ang panginabuhi "Panggaw" ang gigamit para pag dakop sa isda.

Pero naay akong nadiskubre nganong ginganlan ug Panglao ang lungsud sa Panglao. mao ni akong nahiman-himan karon. Kining gapuyo sa Dauis ug Panglao kaniadto mao ang mga insek. Mao bitaw na nga kadaghanan sa lugar sa Panglao Island naga-gikan sa pinulungang Insek. Pero ang Panglao gikan sa pung palaw. Usa ka pung nga malay nga ang boot pasabot isla. Tungod kay ang mga insek jungit mao nga nahimong panglao ang palaw.

WN

Having a "bird" is better than nothing at all.

Quote from: Lorenzo on March 16, 2011, 11:30:03 PM
murag bungoton man sila tanan.

Bungoton jud na sila! Kita naa man puy atong bungoton pero nakatago lang.

WN

Swiss Guards in the beginning are mercenaries of the pope of Rome. This is during the time when kingdoms went to war because of their religious belief, the pope since the church itself has no military organization recruited the Swiss people to fight for the church. Since then by church tradition the Swiss are chosen to guard the pope.

WN
 

Transubstantiation is not only a miracle in turning bread and wine into the body and blood of Christ but the miracle really happened in the literal meaning of the word. When Jesus performed the "eucharist" in front of his desciples during the last supper he told them this way;

"And as they were eating, Jesus took bread, and blessed it, and brake it, and gave it to the disciples, and said, Take, eat; this is my body. And he took the cup, and gave thanks, and gave it to them, saying, Drink ye all of it; For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins. (Matthew 26:26-28 )

Jesus did not only change bread and wine here but also changed the practice of the Jews and tolerated the culture of the gentiles. I mean that Jesus told his  followers to drink blood which they abhor. And because of that some of his desciples who were Jewish departed away from Jesus. What he was really doing was to change the mosaic law of prohibiting the drinking of blood and at the same time recognizing the habit or practice of the gentiles of drinking blood from animals.

Eating "dugo-dugo" is misinterpreted and not followed by the INK, witnesses of Jehovah, the seventh day adventist, ADD...etc...etc...

WN
   

Quote from: Lorenzo on October 18, 2010, 09:58:00 AM
"They asked him, "Then why are you baptizing, if you are neither the Christ, nor Elijah, nor the prophet?"

"John answered them, "I baptize with water; but among you stands one Whom you do not know, even He Who comes after me, the thong of Whose sandal I am not worthy to untie."

"This took place in Bethany beyond the Jordan, where John was baptizing."

"The next day he saw Jesus coming toward him, and said, "Behold, the Lamb of God, Who takes away the sin of the world!"

--John 1:25-29

When John the Baptist saw Jesus he exclaimed....

"Behold, the Lamb of God, Who takes away the sin of the world!"

The story behind this exclamation is that John the Baptist is an Essene who followed the essenic doctrine of baptism. Essenes also do not believe in the Jewish teaching that your sins are forgiven by sacrificing a firstborn lamb in the temple.

In this setting you can tell that Jesus started his ministry through baptism by John. The verse here is trying to tell us [gentiles] that the strict mosaic laws are all finished in the coming of Jesus. The new temple is Jesus Christ and all sacrifices ended with Jesus on the cross.

WN
 

Quote from: Lorenzo on March 20, 2011, 03:19:24 PM
    Transliteration: Barukh ata Adonai Eloheinu melekh haâ€'olam, haâ€'mavdil bein kodesh l'hol, bein or l'hoshekh, bein yisra'el laâ€'amim, bein yom haâ€'sh'vi'i l'sheshet y'mei haâ€'ma'a'se. Barukh ata Adonai, haâ€'mavdil bein kodesh l'hol.

    Translation: "Blessed are You, Lord, our God, King of the universe, Who distinguishes between the sacred and the secular, between light and dark, between Israel and the nations, between the seventh day and the six days of labor. Blessed are You, Lord, Who distinguishes between the sacred and the secular."

A Jewish prayers have its origin from the doctrine about "lightness and darkness" which come from the ancient Babylonians and the believers of Zoaraster. Christians pick that up in the NT as "the children of lightness and the children of darkness. They [Jews] pray that Israel is separate than the other nations on earth. The days are literal 24 hours.

But the moslem prayer is a curse against Jews and Christians.

WN

Quote from: taga tigbao on March 03, 2011, 01:09:36 PM
Wa ko mamalandong aning about ni Manalo kay sa Catholic Church daghan pud ni. Bisan ganing asa nga religion. Ang aho ang gituohan ani nila. 

Sa katoliko ang mga pari, obispo ug bisan pa ang papa sa Roma makasa pero wa man ni sila moingon nga anghel. Si Felix Manalo gitonto-tonto intawon ang iyang mga miembro nga anghel siya pero nanglugos. Naa bay anghel manglugos? Hehehe....

* * *

The founder of INk is Felix Manalo and sometimes before 1942 a publication in a kapangpangan newspaper featured Felix Manalo a man considered as an angel by the members of iglesia ni Kristo was reported raping a woman named Rosita Trillanes. Here is the confession of Rosita trillanes;

Mga Kapatid:

Dahil sa pag-ibig ko sa Iglesia at ukol sa inyong kabutihan ay sumulat ako sa inyo upang magtapat ng bagay na talagang nangyari sa akin at ng mga bagay na aking nasaksihan at nalaman sa panahon ng dalawang taong pagkatigil ko sa Central. Ako ay isang dalaga na naging kaanib ng Iglesia ni Cristo sa Batangas. Ako ay kinapootan at itinakwil ng aking mga magulang. Sa paniwala kong ako’y makakatagpo ng pag-aampon ay pumayag ako kay kapatid na Jacinto Torres na dalhin niya ako sa opisina Central. Noong ako ay naroon ay naransan ko ang lubhang napakapait at napakasakit sa buhay ng dalaga gaya noong lapastanganin ako ni Manalo na itinuturing kong isang ama. Noong una ay niligawan niya ako ngunit nang tumanggi ako sa kanyang mga ninanais ay binugbog at hinataw niya ako ng aking ikinawala ng malay-tao. At noong ako’y wala nang malay-tao ay ginawa niya ang kahalayang ibig niya sa akin. Doon ay lubhang naghirap ako dahil sa masamang palakad sa akin, paghataw at pagbabanta na tinatanggap ko kailan ma’t tumututol ako sa mahahalay niyang nais sa akin.

Marami din akong nasaksihang mga ginahasa ni Felix Manalo, ang iba ay mga dalaga; ang iba ay mga asawa ng mga kaanib; samantalang ang isa ay asawa ng isang Ministro. Sinabi ni Manalo sa akin ang tungkol sa mga ibang kanyang ginawan ng kahalayan, noong ako’y kanyang hinihikayat na pumayag sa kanyang mga ninanais. Sinabi niya sa akin ang tungkol sa tatlumpung mga babaing kanyang kanyang pinagsamantalahan. Hindi ko maaaring ihayag ang kanilang mga pangalan upang pagtakpan ang kanilang karangalan, ngunit madalas silang nagpupunta sa Opisina. Sa piling ko ay pinagsikapan niyang ginahasa ang isang dalaga na pagkatapos ay nagbuntis at iyon ay nangyaring napapunta din sa opisina central ukol sa tanging pagkakataong may kaugnayan sa Manalo. Marahil ang dahilan kung kaya si Liloy ay nagbitiw, ay sapagkat sinikap ni Manalong pilitin si Amanda. Ang lahat ng mga itong kanyang nilapastangan ay nangatatakot magsabi sapagkat sila’y binalaang papatayin kung sila’y magsasabi, katulad ng ginawa niya kay Basilia Santos ng Paco, na itinuturo niya si Manalo, bilang ama ng kanyang dalawang anak. Naging balitang-balita ito sa Paco.

Bago nagpunta si Manalo sa America, ay dinala niya ako sa bahay ng mga Protacio, sa Pasay. Ngunit noong wala pang isang buwan ay dumating siya upang kunin niya akong pabalik, nangangambang baka sinabi ko sa mga Protacio ang lahat ng kanyang inasal at ginawa sa akin; noong ako’y tumangging sumama sa kanya ay binalaan niya ako ng masama at tinakot niya ako ng isang rebolber at sa pamamagitan ng lakas ay pinilit niya akong sumama sa kanya. Pagkatapos nito ay pinalayas niya sa Iglesya ang mga mag-anak ng Protacio at pinaratangan ng kabulaanan.

Kanyang ginugugol ang lahat niyang buwanang sahod na P 1,300.00 ukol sa mga babae at sa mga mahahalay na mga gawain, samantalang ang abang manggagawa ng Iglesya ay tumatanggap lamang ng P5.00, P 10.00, P 15.00, P 20.00 isang buwan. Ang nangyayari sa lahat ninyong mga abuloy na iniaalay sa Dios, ay nagpupunta sa kanya at bagay na kanyang ginugugol ukol sa lahat niyang mahahalay na gawa. Sinabi ko kay kapatid na Doro ang lahat ng bagay na ito noong si Manalo ay naroon pa sa America.Sa ganitong paraan ay pababayaan ba ninyong pagmalabisan ni Manalo ang mga kaanib at tanggapin ang Iglesya sa ngalan ng Dios…? Hindi ba ninyo iniibig ang Iglesya…? Ang inyong asawa at mga anak na babae ay nasa panganib sa kasawian sa mahahalay na pita ng taong iyan na ipinalalagay at kinikilala ninyong bilang tagapagturo ng mga salita ng Dios.

Ipinagtatapat ko sa inyo ang lahat ng bagay na ito, ipinauubaya ko sa inyo ang kapasiyahan na magagawa ninyo kung tunay na iniibig ninyo ang Iglesya at ang Dios. Sa paghimok sa babaeng iniibig niya maging siya ay isang dalaga o isang may asawa, ay binabanggit niya ang maraming asawa ni Solomon at inaangkin niyang ang taong sinugo ng Dios, ay dapat gawing maligaya at ang pagpayag na pagsang-ayon sa kanyang mga ninanais ay isang kapuri-puring gawa sa mga mata ng Dios. Matatanggap ba ng inyong mabuting diwa ang walang kaayusang ito…? Nasa inyo ang kapasiyahan.
Ang inyong kapatid na naging sawingpalad dahil sa malabis ng pagtitiwala.

ROSITA

* * *

Quote from: Lorenzo on March 03, 2011, 07:25:50 AM
The Catholic Holy Bible does maintain the originality. I have read the New International Version and the King James Version. The King James Version is very poetic and well written, in credit to our Protestant brothers and sisters.

If the Catholic Church initiated the canon of the bible then it's the original. The version that there are only 66 books in the bible is the canon of Martin Luther when he protested against the Catholic Church.

QuoteIt was a rebuke by Jesus Christ on the scribes and pharisees of the day who did not accept the Word of God. It was a response from Jesus Christ after the pharisees were trying to denounce Him. Again, Christ's message to us in Matthew Chapter 23 was the importance of Faith in the Word rather than the two faced adherence of the Law.

====

Jesus Christ rebuked the scribes and pharisees because these Jewish sects are firm believers of the Torah. They did not believe Jesus as God. Jesus as redeemer of the gentiles abrogate the law of Moses. Jesus revised the law of Moses.

====

QuoteJesus Christ, our Risen Lord ends Matthew Chapter 23, with verses 37 to 39.


"37 “O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, the city that kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to it! How often would I have gathered your children together as a hen gathers her brood under her wings, and you would not! 38 See, your house is left to you desolate. 39 For I tell you, you will not see me again, until you say, ‘Blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord."

====

This is another statement in the NT that the Jews killed their prophets. It's an insult to Jews if you ask them who are the prophets they killed... because I think there is none. This is another anti-Judaism statement in the NT. In verse 38 the NT even cursed the house of Israel to become desolate.

=====

QuoteChrist Jesus tells us, my dear brothers, that salvation is not come through works by men, but by Faith. It is through Faith in the Rightousness of the Lord and in His Resurrection that one is saved.

For it is written:

“For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast.”
-Ephesians 2:8,9

====

This one is sola fide. This is a defense mechanism of "Praise the Lord Christians" that by faith alone man can be saved no matter what as long as you believe.

* * *

Quote from: Lorenzo on February 21, 2011, 04:08:53 AM
John’s Background

John was born to aged Jewish parents, Zacharias and Elizabeth, who were of a priestly family (Lk. 1:5). Interestingly, Elizabeth was related to Mary, the mother of Jesus (Lk. 1:36). This devout couple lived in the “hill country” of Judea (Lk. 1:39), perhaps Hebron, a priestly city of the region.

Luke has a wonderful summary statement of the character of this Hebrew couple. “And they were both righteous before God, walking in all the commandments and ordinances of the Lord blameless” (1:6).

On the occasion of Zacharias’ exercise of his duty of burning incense in the temple at Jerusalem (a once-in-a-lifetime event for a priest), the angel Gabriel appeared to the elderly gentleman, informing him that his prayers had been heard, and that his wife would bear a son (1:13). One must necessarily infer that Zecharias had prayed for such in earlier times, though Elizabeth was barren, and both of them now were advanced in age (1:7).

Clearly, John’s conception was miraculous; incidentally, he was about six months older than Jesus (1:26). It was foretold that this child would be filled with the Spirit of God, even from his mother’s womb, and that he would be reared under the strict code of the Nazirite (cf. Num. 6:1-21), an indication of the solemnity of his role in preparing the way for the world’s Redeemer.

The Scriptures are silent as to the deaths of John’s parents â€" though legend has it that Zacharias was slain by Herod the Great, forcing Elizabeth to flee with her babe into the wilderness area of Judea. Luke does say of John: “And the child grew, and waxed strong in spirit, and was in the deserts till the day of his showing unto Israel” (1:80). This desert (or deserted) area “stretches from Jerusalem and Bethlehem eastward some 20 miles down to the Jordan River and the Dead Sea”; it is “a barren region of rugged hills and valleys” (Earle, 30).

If John the Baptist "was in the deserts till the day of his showing unto Israel”... I can surmise that his religious influence before Christianity must be with the Essenes. The Essenes were the religious sect of the Jews who lived in the wilderness of Judea especially Qumran. The Essenes are the people who lived in a "monastic" community who practiced the ritual of baptism.

* * *

Quote from: hubag bohol on February 24, 2011, 05:44:28 PM
Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye compass sea and land to make one proselyte, and when he is made, ye make him twofold more the child of hell than yourselves. (KJV)

This is one anti-Jewish quote in the bible.

Quote14. When was the Bible canonized?

The entire New Testament as we know it today, was canonized before the year 375 A.D. The Old Testament had previously been canonized long before the advent of Christ.

====

The first ecumenical council in Nicea is when the bible was canonized in 325 AD.

Quote15. What does "canon" mean?

"Canon" is derived front the Greek word "Kanon," signifying a measuring rod. Thus, to have the Bible "canonized" meant that it had been measured by the standard or test of divine inspiration and authority. It became the collection of books or writings accepted by the apostles and leadership of the early Christian church as a basis for Christian belief. It is the standard by which all Christians throughout the ages live and worship.

=====

Canon means the compilation of the 73 books of the bible by authority of the Catholic Church.

* * *

Quote1. How many books are in the Bible?

The Bible contains 66 books, divided among the Old and New Testaments.

There are 73 books as compiled by the Catholic Church in the council of Nicea in 325 AD. The aim of the council is to counter the heresy of Arius than Jesus is only a man.

Quote2. How many books are in the Old Testament?

There are 39 books in the Old Testament.

Quote3. How many books are in the New Testament?

There are 27 books in the New Testament.

The catholic version has 46 OT and 27 NT.

Quote4. What does "testament" mean?

Testament means "covenant" or "contract."

Quote5. Who wrote the Bible?

The Bible was written under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit by over 40 different authors from all walks of life: shepherds, farmers, tent-makers, physicians, fishermen, priests, philosophers and kings. Despite these differences in occupation and the span of years it took to write it, the Bible is an extremely cohesive and unified book.

The OT were written centuries ago before the NT. The NT were never have been written if the OT were not translated into greek. The OT were translated on the order of King Ptolemy II of Egypt. He hired 70 rabbis to let the OT be translated into greek. This translation is called the Septuagint Version of the bible.

Quote
6. Which single author contributed the most books to the Old Testament?

Moses. He wrote the first five books of the Bible, referred to as the Pentateuch: the foundation of the Bible.



7. Which single author contributed the most books to the New Testament?

The Apostle Paul, who wrote 14 books (over half) of the New Testament.

The answer to no question 7 is; Paul only wrote 7 undisputed epistles in the NT.

Quote8. When was the Bible written?

It was written over a period of some 1,500 years, from around 1450 B.C. (the time of Moses) to about 100 A.D. (following the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ).

Conflicting info.

Quote9. What is the oldest book in the Old Testament?

Many scholars agree that Job is the oldest book in the Bible, written by an unknown Israelite about 1500 B.C. Others hold that the Pentateuch (the first five books of the Bible) are the oldest books in the Bible, written between 1446 and 1406 B.C.

Quote
10. What is the youngest book in the Old Testament?

The book of Malachi, written about 400 B.C.

Please refer to the Maccabean revolt.

Quote
11. What is the oldest book of the New Testament?

Probably the book of James, written as early as A.D. 45.

The original epistles of Paul  are the oldest.

Quote12. What is the youngest book in the New Testament?

The Book of Revelation is the youngest book of the New Testament, written about 95 A.D.

The youngest book is the gospel of John.

13. What languages was the Bible written in?

The Bible was written in three languages: Hebrew, Aramaic, and Koine Greek.



14. When was the Bible canonized?

The entire New Testament as we know it today, was canonized before the year 375 A.D. The Old Testament had previously been canonized long before the advent of Christ.



15. What does "canon" mean?

"Canon" is derived front the Greek word "Kanon," signifying a measuring rod. Thus, to have the Bible "canonized" meant that it had been measured by the standard or test of divine inspiration and authority. It became the collection of books or writings accepted by the apostles and leadership of the early Christian church as a basis for Christian belief. It is the standard by which all Christians throughout the ages live and worship.



16. When was the first translation of the Bible made into English?

1382 A.D., by John Wycliffe.



17. When was the Bible printed?

The Bible was printed in 1454 A.D. by Johannes Gutenberg who invented the "type mold" for the printing press. It was the first book ever printed.



18. What is the oldest almost-complete manuscript of the Bible now in existence?

The Codex Vaticanus, which dates from the first half of the fourth Century. It is located in the library of the Vatican in Rome. There are older fragments of the Bible that are still preserved however--the oldest being a tiny scrap of the Gospel of John found in Egypt, dating back to the beginning of the second century. (It is currently in the Rayland's Library in Manchester, England).



19. What is the longest book in the Bible?

The book of Psalms.



20. What is the shortest book in the Bible?

2 John.



21. What is the longest chapter in the Bible?

Psalm 119



22. What is the shortest chapter in the Bible?

Psalm 117



23. What is the longest verse in the Bible?

Esther 8:9



24. What is the shortest verse in the Bible?

John 11:35



25. Which book in the Bible does not mention the word "God?"

The book of Esther.



26. Who was the oldest man that ever lived?

Methuselah who lived to be 969 years old (Genesis 5:27).



27. Who were the two men in the Bible who never died but were caught up to heaven?

Enoch, who walked with God and was no more (Genesis 5:22-24).

Elijah, who was caught up by a whirlwind into heaven (II Kings 2:11).



28. Who does the Bible say was the meekest man in the Bible (not including Jesus)?

Moses (Numbers 12:3).



29. How many languages has the Bible been translated into?

The Holy Bible has been translated into 2,018 languages, with countless more partial translations, and audio translations (for unwritten languages). (This is an enormous amount of translations. In comparison, Shakespeare, considered by many to be the master writer of the English language, has only been translated into 50 languages.)



30. Is the Bible still the best-selling book in the world?

Yes, indeed!

Quote from: Mike Ortega Ligalig on June 06, 2007, 03:43:31 AM
...blast from the past...
     
      To suppress the insurgency in Bohol and to retaliate and avenge their losses encountered in Kabantian pass, the Americans intensified their campaigns against the insurgents who were camping in the different parts of the province. They heard about the two insurgent encampments in Bohol. Valmoria's campsite was in the upper part of Lonoy somewhere in Boctol or Claveceta mountain range overlooking Sierra-Bullones. Lonoy is a hilly barrio of Jagna, more or less 10 kilometers from the poblacion. In going to the place, one has to always go upward, following narrow winding paths or chopped roads by the hills. Its terrain is a good ambush site along the route to the Boholano camps. On March 5, 1901 Miguel Valmoria received a communication from the general headquarters of Pedro Samson that the Americans had started moving towards his (Valmoria's) camp.

On the following day he ordered Captain Gregorio Caseñas to prepare everything because his camp (Caseñas')  will be first to be attacked. Believing that the American troops will pass through Lonoy, Jagna via a narrow path they dug trenches and foxholes at both sides, covered and camouflaged. In the trenches and foxholes there were more than four hundred patriots waiting for the zero hour. On the morning of March 8, 1901 two American platoons attacked the Boholanos from the rear while another two platoons one on each end of the pass served as blocking forces.

Betrayed by a fellow Boholano, a certain Francisco Salas guided the Americans to the position of the Boholanos along the path to the rear of the defenses. The Boholanos in the trenches caught in surprise, were not able to raise their spears, were either shot or bayoneted in the covered foxholes. Four hundred six were dead including Captain Caseñas. Only seven were able to escape. The Americans had olny three casualties.

Mike,

I think there is a more detailed story of the American occupation of Bohol. You already posted about George Percival Scrivens in TB sometimes ago. In his diary I think Scrivens is the closest to the event because he was the communication officer of the occupying American forces. He donated his diary to Duke University.

WN

Quote from: Lorenzo on February 03, 2011, 07:05:41 AM
Sir Way Nada,

You bring up a valid point considering the heavy Hindu, Buddhist presence in the Philippines prior to the Spanish arrival. Maharlika (the Philippines) was part of Srivijaya Empire, a Malay political machine that practiced Hinduism and then later Thervada Buddhism. Considering the Philippines was a vassal of Srivijaya, the transfer of religious beliefs is probable.

In fact that is the reason why central and southern Philippines is called "Visayas", it comes from the "VIJAYA/ SRI VIJAYA"

I agree and the transfer of religious beliefs is probable because their religious tradition is with us today blending with the catholic belief.

The word Bisaya comes from Sri Vijaya. This was an empire occupying Indonesia before the Majapahit took over and drove the Vijayan away from Indonesia. Some of them landed in Bohol and their language are a common usage among us Boholanos. For example is the town of Candijay. Where did the word Candijay came from? Since their is no written history about the Vijayan we'll just resort to listening to some legendary stories that Candijay comes from "kang dihay". But in my opinion Candijay comes from Sanskrit. Candi means temple and jaya means victory.

Quote from: buwadsanga on February 02, 2011, 10:48:58 AM
tama ka way nada pero it does not mean na kong gikan ang pinolongan didto taga didto ta. we are a malay race. ang pinolongang jagna this is a cebuano word mean mi uslob o mi drop kong sa ingles pa o mi konhod o basta kay kami dili mi mga indian! kay dili pud mi nanimaho ug sibuyas! heheehehehe....

Dili mo taga didto sa India o dili ka Indian kundili sila nga mga Indians maoy hinglalin sa atong lugar. Kanang India mao nay hingsunod sa Africa diin nagagikan tong gitawag ug "great migration" sa kalibutan. Kanang mga Eskaya unsa man na sila? Ngano man nga naa may ilang kultura nga lain ug dala pa jud nila ang ilang alphabet. Boot pasabot ana hing abot sila sa Bohol nga gikan sila sa usa ka civilize culture sama pananglit sa sanskrit diin nagagikan ang kultura sa mga Indians.

Mao kining Jagna gikan sa pung nga Indian ug akong pagtoo gikan sa pung; Jaganath usa ka Hindu god. Kanang imong sulti nga meaning sa Jagna nakadungog nako ana gikan ni Jun Cadelina.

Quote from: Way Nada on February 02, 2011, 09:38:22 AM
Namoot ba nga nahiuyon o nangyam-id. Kung wa ka mahiuyon di tingale ang imong katiguwangan nga imong gitan aw mao tong mga European nga hing anha sa Pilipinas after sa mga Indians and malays.

Naa may mga sinultian nga atong gigamit karon nga gikan sa mga Indians, pananglitan; bay to mean brother, baro-dress, kamisa-t shirt, salawal-tapis, diwa - from the indian word diva for spirit.

Quote from: buwadsanga on February 01, 2011, 02:45:52 PM
na muot lang ko ni Way Nada Dong Lor......mga indians diay mi! hehehehe!

Namoot ba nga nahiuyon o nangyam-id. Kung wa ka mahiuyon di tingale ang imong katiguwangan nga imong gitan aw mao tong mga European nga hing anha sa Pilipinas after sa mga Indians and malays.

Quote from: islander on January 17, 2011, 10:15:51 PM
nganong naa na may mga killers sa bohol nga ingon ani, some of whom even manage to cut cleanly?    

Naa na jud... Karon diri naa man gani mosaka ug bay mangawat hasta abri-lata kawaton. He... he....

Happy New Year bisag humana....

Pero kining akong huna-huna ining mga anti whaling nga kini sila mga leftist. Nangita ni sila ug gubot kay mao nay ilang gusto ang kagubot. Ang mga hapon sama usab sa mga Bol-anon kusog mokaon ug sanga ug lumod kay mao nay naandan o kultura nato. Pero kining Australian ug mga New Zealander wa na sa ilang kinaiya o kultura.

Mao ni karon ang gihimong isyu sa mga leftist sa Australia ug New Zealand. Komo kay wa sa ilang kultura gipahimuslan sa mga leftist ang isyu aron kontrahon ang mga hapones sa panagat ug lumod.

Ang pung sa mga hapones nga kining mga Australian ug New Zealander ug pugngan sila nga mokaon sa ilang mga baka ug karnero malipay kaha sila?

Mao nay pangutana.

WN   

Ako gihapon motubag sa akong pangutana. Hehehe..... Kining pung nga Jagna sa akong paminaw gikan ni sa pinulungang Sanskrit. Wa koy lain nga masulti kundi kining Jagna gikan sa pung Jagannatha nga boot pasabot "Lord of the world".

Ang mga tawo sa una sa Jagna gikan sa India ug ang ngan sa ilang dios nga si Jagannatha mao puy nahimong ngan sa lugar... Jaganna ug nahimong "Jagna" sa kadugayan na.

WN

Quote from: bol-anon quo nyur! on March 17, 2010, 08:24:46 AM
LOVED? Maybe to his LOYALIST ::)hahahaha...

I agree.

Quote from: bol-anon quo nyur! on March 17, 2010, 07:27:29 AM
Geeeeeeeeee! Nganong nag sigi paman tawn mog hisgot ni MALCOS oi

Reply:

Because the stature of Marcos is like any other leaders in the world who are loved and hated.

WN

Quote from: islander on March 15, 2010, 05:44:20 PM

“In a unique position to observe the Marcos regime and their private lives, Romulo (The Manila Hotel, etc.), wife of Philippine foreign minister Carlos P. Romulo, portrays the Marcoses as a powerful and greedy political team, surrounded by sycophants and jetset friends, who exploited a still feudal society with a corrupt patronage system. While Imelda was noted for her lavish and frivolous lifestyle, the author emphasizes that her husband relied on her as a de facto vice-president to whom, as his health failed, he accorded increasing authority, sending her on missions that she combined with mammoth shopping sprees. In this gossipy, meaty expose, studded with frank appraisals of public figures, the author contrasts the glamorous life of the privileged few, which she admittedly enjoyed, with the dire poverty of the Philippine people. Her eyewitness account of the disintegration and toppling of the regime after Benigno Aquino's murder confirms other such reports.”
-excerpt from Editorial Review, Publishers Weekly, on Beth Day Romulo's Inside the Palace: The Rise and Fall of Ferdinand and Imelda Marcos , Putnam, 1987

Reply:

Beth Romulo's opinion quoted by Raymond Bonner that; "her husband relied on her as a de facto vice-president." Beth Romulo was wronged and Raymond Bonner is biased by omitting the fact that the government of Marcos is parliamentary. The government of Marcos was not provided by law with a vice president because it is not presidential like the US. In case of the failing health of Marcos and he dies while in office, the government is still working headed by Prime Minister Cesar Virata. Virata will call for a national election for president.

WN

Quote from: islander on March 15, 2010, 05:44:20 PM
Thanks for your very helpful reading suggestions.  Let me share with you excerpts/reviews of the books you mentioned.

“Rarely, if ever, in history have so few stolen so much from so many.” 
-excerpt from Raymond Bonner’s Waltzing With A Dictator:  The Marcoses and The Making of American Policy, Vintage, 1988

***

“In a unique position to observe the Marcos regime and their private lives, Romulo (The Manila Hotel, etc.), wife of Philippine foreign minister Carlos P. Romulo, portrays the Marcoses as a powerful and greedy political team, surrounded by sycophants and jetset friends, who exploited a still feudal society with a corrupt patronage system. While Imelda was noted for her lavish and frivolous lifestyle, the author emphasizes that her husband relied on her as a de facto vice-president to whom, as his health failed, he accorded increasing authority, sending her on missions that she combined with mammoth shopping sprees. In this gossipy, meaty expose, studded with frank appraisals of public figures, the author contrasts the glamorous life of the privileged few, which she admittedly enjoyed, with the dire poverty of the Philippine people. Her eyewitness account of the disintegration and toppling of the regime after Benigno Aquino's murder confirms other such reports.”
-excerpt from Editorial Review, Publishers Weekly, on Beth Day Romulo's Inside the Palace: The Rise and Fall of Ferdinand and Imelda Marcos , Putnam, 1987

***

“The Philippine political culture is a personalistic but violent, religious but superstitious, corrupt but tolerant, hierarchical but distributionist, solicitous of form but not of content, legalistic, but careless of equity, media-obsessed and nationalistically vociferous with respect to rights but negligent to obligations.”
-summary of the limitations of Philippine political culture by Lewis E. Gleeck, American observer, diplomat and historian, in his book President Marcos and the Philippine Political Culture, Cellar Book Shop, 1988

Just some more reasons for my distaste of our Martial Law years.

Islander,

There is still one book left you did not try to quote against Marcos.... the Guinness Book of World Records. Everything said against Marcos is to demonize him. This is borne out of hatred and they want his good deeds to be erased from the pages of history. In the name of democracy and freedom of the press, it is easy to malign and villify Marcos or anybody. But in our system... the last bulwark of democracy is the court of law.

I think all the issues you raised is a rehash of the past and it is part and parcel of the Philippine "real politik". There are people who believe it and there are people who don't... because these issues are all in line with the "perspective" of the author. He has no proof or evidence that Marcos stole billions of dollars.

After all you said quoting from the book or books... is there proof that Marcos plundered the Philippine treasury? Was Marcos convicted of any crime pertaining to graft and corruption? The test case was Marcos and Westinghouse Inc. v the Philippine government.       

Lolong Lazaro is correct and according to him;

"To obliterate Marcos’ achievements/contributions from the pages of history is to distort the past and mislead the future. Succeeding administrations have employed laws and the media to destroy or consign Marcos to oblivion notwithstanding the solid achievements he erected for the good of the nation and its people. Good deeds, especially those beneficial to the nation and people, cannot be effaced or expunged. Good triumphs in the end. FM’s place in history is secure. The Marcos laws abound around us. They are embedded in our legal system. They continue to govern and guide the nation and the government functionaries. The vision and foresight of FM in law-making for governance are richly illustrated by the varied and numerous vital legal issuances."

WN


   

Quote from: hubag bohol on March 15, 2010, 04:58:55 PM
Marcos has already gone down in history after bequeathing to the Filipino people and the world a far more enduring legacy than roads and presidential decrees--a greedy and brutal reign that gained him entry to the pantheon of the world's most despised rulers.

"To obliterate Marcos’ achievements/contributions from the pages of history is to distort the past and mislead the future. Succeeding administrations have employed laws and the media to destroy or consign Marcos to oblivion notwithstanding the solid achievements he erected for the good of the nation and its people. Good deeds, especially those beneficial to the nation and people, cannot be effaced or expunged. Good triumphs in the end. FM’s place in history is secure. The Marcos laws abound around us. They are embedded in our legal system. They continue to govern and guide the nation and the government functionaries. The vision and foresight of FM in law-making for governance are richly illustrated by the varied and numerous vital legal issuances."

FM’s life and achievement in law:
Myth unchallenged and unsurpassed
By: Atty Manuel "Lolong" Lazaro

Quote from: Lorenzo on March 14, 2010, 10:03:01 AM
This is directed towards Way Nada:

(I have several questions, pardon my interest in the subject)



2. How would you describe the Philippine Foreign Policy, during the Marcos Administration, in regards to the War in Vietnam?

Reply:

During Marcos time since our military was the strongest in Southeast Asia and with the urging of the US we went to the war in Vietnam. As part of our foreign policy contribution we sent the PHILCAG to Vietnam. Before the Philcag there was the Philippine expeditionary force. We can say that our foreign policy in regards of fighting war against the communists in Vietnam it sits well also with our law illegalizing the Communist Party of the Philippines.   

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3. There are claims that it was Marcos that created the NPA, what, if any, are the odds of this being true, or not?

Reply:

Marcos created the NPA is false! NPA is leftist and Marcos authoritarian government was conservative rightist. The Partido Kumunista ng Pilipinas was there in the Philippines before the war. It was founded by Evangelista. His prominent follower was Juan Sumulong the great grandfather of Cory Aquino.

The NPA was founded by Bernabe Buscayno who was once a confidante of Ninoy Aquino. The CCP of Joma Sison fused with Buscayno and the NPA became the armed group of the communist party in our country. When Cory took over power her first land reform beneficiary is the NPA leader Bernabe Buscayno. After Buscayno received largesse from the Cory government... did the NPA insurgency in the Philippines cease? The answer is no.

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4. Did the Visayas region benefit under the Marcos Administration, in terms of infrastructure growth? If so, how would it compare to the rest of the country?

Reply:

Yes, the infrastructure that Marcos built was nationwide but more in his Ilocos region of course. Marcos was not like CPG who had only a hundred meters of concreted road built in his own province of Bohol. That concrete road is in Tubigon.

Marcos will go down in history as the only president who built more roads than all the presidents combined from Aguinaldo to Macapagal. The Philippine-Japan frienship highway was started by Marcos with the building of San Juanico Bridge spanning the islands of Leyte and Samar in the Visayas.

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5. Why does the current Philippine government choose to retain over 90 Republic Acts that were passed during the Marcos Administration? Why aren't they repealed or abolished?

Reply:

The current government cannot erase the laws of Marcos especially those promulgated during his authoritarian regime because those laws are well crafted by Marcos and his law experts inside his government. Please notice that these are not democratically enacted... as acts of congress. We all agree that in the practice of law Marcos is brilliant and with the help of experts, he meticulously designed the laws to last for years and maybe centuries. 

WN

Quote from: Lorenzo on March 14, 2010, 10:03:01 AM
This is directed towards Way Nada:

(I have several questions, pardon my interest in the subject)


1. What were the military plans that Marcos had regarding the issue of Sabah?

Reply:

There is no question that North Borneo [sabah] is a Philippine territory. The British annexed the territory to the Federation of Malaya after they were granted independence by the British. The former president Diosdado Macapagal sent then vice president Emmanuel Pelaez to Britain to claim North Borneo for the Philippines without success.

Malaysia in respond to the claim of the territory conducted a referendum asking the people as; "what country do they want to belong... Philippines or Malaysia? The Borneans voted for Malaysia."

When Marcos came to power our military possessed the best fighting men in all of South East Asia. Since Malaysia refused to hand-over the territory to the Philippines Marcos deviced a plan to bring back North Borneo to the Philippines. The military through the approval of Marcos recruited young Tausog Muslims to be trained as "commando fighters" to infiltrate North Borneo and agitate Filipinos living in North Borneo to start an insurgency war against the government of Malaysia.

This happened in the early part of the second term of Marcos. This plan of Marcos was not without a spy in congress. His name is Ninoy Aquino. In a privilege speech he dropped the bomb that the military massacred muslim recruits and one survivor swam from Corregidor and emerged out from the water along Roxas Boulevard. The name of the survivor is Araulo. This person who according to Ninoy emerged out from the sea along Roxas Boulevard... is a fictitious person supplied by a dossier to Ninoy. The press mentioned Araulo but nobody saw this person except in Ninoy's privilege speech. This person and the issue of the massacre were good material to lambast Marcos who was his political enemy. After everything is told and done the massacre that took place in Corregidor according to Ninoy... is a big lie. There was no massacre in Corregidor.

The Corregidor issue angered Nur Misuari who was then a professor at the University of the Philippines. He went back to Sulo and formed the MNLF. I can say that because of his privilege speech Ninoy Aquino was a big factor in the Moro insurgency under Misuari. The next worse thing that happened to the MNLF when Martial Law was declared was that many of them were driven out of Sulo to Sabah. This is why Ninoy in his speaking engagement abroad during his self-exile because of his own making he always tell his listeners that; "there are more than 200 thousands Muslim exiles in Kota Kinabalu, Sabah." He blamed Marcos for the plight of the Muslim exiles but to the person who understands the issue he is to be blamed.   

This issue brought up by Ninoy was a big blow to the government of Marcos that it became too embarrassing for the military to continue with their "commando" training. This scandal reached the British government that commonwealth allies like Australia and New Zealand sent a flotilla of warships into the sea fronting Palawan. To counter the planned sabotage by the Philippines, the gurkha fighters of the British Army was sent into North Borneo... trained the Malaysian Army in counter insurgency and jungle warfare. The last Gurkha that left Sabah [North Borneo] was in 1986 when Marcos military was in disarray and lost already the vigor to fight.

The irony here is that Marcos who dared to fight for our country's territory is a villain and Ninoy who betrayed the aim of the Filipinos to bring North Borneo is a hero.

WN

Islander:

1973 - A new constitution allowing Marcos to stay in office indefinitely and to rule by decree is introduced.  The result is confirmed by a fraudulent referendum enabling him to continue as president until the end of martial law and to arbitrarily appoint all government officials, including members of the judiciary.  Imelda Marcos is made governor of Manila and minister of human settlements and ecology.

Reply:

This is a given argument. Of course he ruled by decree because there was no congress. He was the Martial Law administrator.

Islander:
***
Political prisoners are routinely tortured by the military. "Disappearances" and murders of suspected political activists are common, with over 500 cases being recorded for the period 1975-80.  Meanwhile, inflation and unemployment rise while already low living standards drop.

Reply:

There was not a single case of torture... if there was who was the accuse military personnel. This issue is part of the hate campaign against Marcos. Those who disappeared or presume to be murdered were part of the campaign against the insurgency.

Islander:

Is.:  true, true.  but:

Martial law initially brings stability and an economic turnaround but with the costs of reduced social freedoms and increasing corruption.  Limited land reforms are introduced but prove ineffective.  Manufacturing and business enterprises
are nationalized or handed to Marcos's cronies or relatives.  Profits are siphoned off for personal enrichment and mismanagement is rife.

Reply:

You are admitting to this fact. This is true also in other countries who were able to sustain authoritarian regimes that in exchange for a fast economic recovery you have to surrender your freedom temporarily.                                     

Islander:

Is.:  why add some more when these ‘specialty hospitals’, as you call them, are already there?  more so when until now our country is paying for the loans made to finance those structures?  isn’t it more commonsensical to just fully utilize what are already existing rather than borrow some more from foreign creditors and deplete the country’s coffers some more, the way the marcoses did to fund their grandiose show windows?  by the way, the term “edifice complex” bestowed on
imelda was not for nothing.

Reply:

If they cannot add some more then they should put extensions to some of those hospitals. Some of these hospitals are overcrowded. Patients are already in the corridors especially in the Heart Center.

Islander:

Is.:  filipino migration for jobs abroad started in 1906.  the number increased greatly in the 1960s.  we had a young new president then on whom our country pinned so much hopes.  during his tenure of 21 years, the country’s foreign debts ballooned and the economy worsened.  this was when filipinos began their job diaspora in droves.  the trend hasn’t stopped decades after as the country hasn’t gotten out of the morass of those foreign debts.

Reply:

I agree... there were already Filipino workers went to Hawaii and California as farmers but it was not said that their earnings were to help the economy of the Philippines. The late Blas Ople the minister of labor during the time of Marcos did not open the Middle East for Filipino laborers to help the economy of the Philippines but to give more employment to the Filipinos.

After Marcos because of their campaign of hatred many investments were closed especially the EPZA in Morong, Bataan. Ford Australia who established spare parts manufacturing in the Philippines transferred to Malaysia. Volkwagen cars was closed. Mattel was sabotaged by the labor union and closed shop. Filipino workers who lost their jobs looked for jobs abroad. And for the first time Filipinos were to accept petty jobs as domestic helpers in Bahrain, Kuwait, saudi Arabia, Singapore and Hongkong. Our women because of poverty... and mind you it is happening today as we speak; they accept sleazy jobs as stripteasers and entertainers/cum prostitutes.
     
And our government hailed them as heroes for sending dollar remittances to the country helping the economy grows.

===================================================
Statements below are issues I brought up for you to comment.

But you comment on the WB conditionalities of borrower country

like the Philippines. Anyway I'll try to answer those issues

fro Robin Broad and John Cavanagh.
==================================================
11.  WN:  Marcos signed PD's that were favorable for foreign investors which is why there were many export processing zones that were established in our country... Mactan in Cebu, Morong in Bataan and Baguio city.Marcos caused the establishment of Offshore-Banking System in the Philippines thus upgrading the banking system and invite foreign banks to do business in the Philippines under certain incentives and guarantees.

There is no more clamor for his return, he is dead already but there are political sounds echoeing for the return of Marcos parliamentary form of government through charter change.[cha-cha] According to a study in UP the Marcos decrees and edicts that are deemed beneficial to the Filipino people are the OPSF or the law subsidizing the price of oil and the Price Control Law through the Price Stabilization Council which control the price of prime commodity in the market.

===================================================

Islander:

Is.:  yes, as dictated by the world bank and the international monetary fund (IMF) as preconditions for loans.  thus:“Companies importing capital goods could expect approval of foreign loans only if their production processes were geared to exports, decreed the Central Bank.” (Robin Broad and John Cavanagh, Unequal Alliance, University of California Press, 1987)

Reply:

When your a borrower your option is to agree to the conditions of the lender. Why? If your the owner of a bank are you not going to put conditionalities to whoever is going to borrow

money?

Islander:   

and this says it all:

As opportunities for profit in the Third World dwindled, transnational banks and corporations refocused their sights back on the developed world.  Four years as the lead international institution in this era of debt crisis management left the IMF almost universally despised across the Southâ€"and nearly broke.  So, the next heir to the international debt and development management throne was anointed: the World Bank, which (with U.S. government blessing) chose structural adjustment of the Philippine

variety as its cure-all.


***
The model, Philippines, having been opened up to the world

economy in new and expanded ways in the early 1980s through

the structural adjustment process, fared among the worst of

the debtor nations. Internal corruption and cronyism combined

with collapsing export earnings to plunge the country into

deep economic and then political crisis.  Only those Filipinos

who managed to salt dollars away abroad through secret and

often illegal capital flight seemed able to avoid the worst of

this all-encompassing crisis.                                 

                         

***
Indeed, in many respects, the one relic of value that a

fleeing Ferdinand Marcos left his successor was a negative

example: a two-decade blueprint for guaranteed economic

disaster. There was much to learn from studying Marcos's

mistakes.  For in the failure of Marcos, the World Bank, and

the IMF lay important lessons that might be applied to another

approach to developmentâ€"one placing people before the market.

(Robin Broad and John Cavanagh, Unequal Alliance, University

of California Press, 1987; emphasis mine)

Reply:

I cannot agree more the opinion of Robin Broad and her husband

than to say that she, her husband and Walden Bello are not

economist in the real sense but they engaged themselves in

economic politics and as critic of the IMF and the WB. Since

she and her husband's opinion are in harmony with Walden Bello

who is a known leftist professor at UP I can say clearly they

are spinning a leftist bias opinion. Her aim is not for

scholastic records but to destabilize and to put down

conservative governments. Which is why if there is any

scholastic study she had for the Philippines I think it is not

acceptable from the point of view of the Makati Business Club.

Her opinion that; "Ferdinand Marcos left his successor was a

negative example: a two-decade blueprint for guaranteed

economic disaster"... is contradictory to her first statement.

She admits that; "the Philippines is WB/IMF model having been

opened up to the world economy in new and expanded ways in the

early 1980s".... but "fared among the worst of the debtor

nations." Where are her proof?

Islander:

Is.:   the 1976 sixth amendment to the 1973 constitution

authorized the chief executive to legislate, as follows:

“Whenever in the judgment of the President there exists a

grave emergency or a threat or imminence thereof, or whenever

the Interim Batasang Pambansa or the regular National Assembly

fails or is unable to act adequately on any matter for any

reason that in his judgment requires immediate action, he may,

in order to meet the exigency, issue the necessary decrees,

orders or letters of instructions, which shall form part of

the law of the land.”

i’m curious as to what’s french and british about it.  (n.b.:

the british government is not authoritarian.)

Reply:

The Philippine government during Marcos copied the French

model which has a strong president, like Marcos himself who

can legislate. So he is a strong president. While Amendment

no. 6 is similar to the British law that gives Reserve Power

to the monarch of England. In case of instability in the

British parliament the monarch can this Reserve Power. It is

like the declaration of Martial Law in the US. The British

system came from or it originated from an authoritarian

regime.     

Islander:

Is.  someone who shouts ‘fire’ in a movie house even if

there’s no fire invites the penalty of arresto menor for

public disturbance and, depending on the damage of his act,

risks charges ranging from misdemeanor to felony, which means

no one is free to shout a false alarm.

Reply:

Correct... that person who shouted "fire" committed a crime.

You got the literal interpretation. But when a journalist is

shouting in the newspaper that his government is on fire, and

politicians are thieves without any supporting evidence he is

free in our system. But in Australia, Britain and Singapore he

will go to jail.

Island:     

any journalist worth his salt will tell us that he only

reports what is there.  journalists are news

reporters/broadcasters/writers, not newsmakers.  whether the

record of killed journalists proves that freedom of the press

is exercised in our country or not depends on one’s

perspective.  the “killers” kill because they believe they’re

justified to silence journalists forever; journalists believe

they’re exercising responsible reporting (what journalist

would say he isn’t?) in their risky profession in which their

lives may just be sacrificed.  that’s perspective.

those unfortunate journalists in the ampatuan massacre were

killed not because they were primarily journalists, i suppose,

but because they were in the line of fire in a deadly

political rivalry where witnesses to the crime were considered

a bane and had to be silenced forever.  as a parallel, most of

the women in that massacre were wives.  there are no

statistics for wives killed; there are for journalists.

Reply:

Journalists worth his salt in our country are a rare specimen.

I believe they are more corrupt than the politicians because

nobody is watching them. The high record of journalists killed

in our country proved that they are too aggressive to write

opinions that are ofensive to somebody. In our country freedom

of the press is to offend. If a journalist is a hard hitter he

should have all the evidences to support all the issues he

brought up. He is not free to lie.

Islander:   

i repeat, there was no freedom of the press during martial

law.

Reply:

Did I not say in my previous opinion that during Martial Law

the press was regulated just like the present system in

Australia, New Zealand, Singapore and Malaysia. Most of these

countries have a press tribunal that any complain about

irresponsible reporting is investigated.   

Islander:

Is.:  the ouster of one president who had allegedly plundered

the country’s treasury does not constitute an absence of the

rule of law. 

it seems that after marcos, accusations of plunder against

someone sitting in the highest office of the land is enough to

mobilize large crowds for a mass protest.   

(mobocracy â€" mob rule or ochlocracy; a government by mob or a

mass of people)

unlikeable as they may seem, the administration that took over

after erap’s ouster wasn’t the mass of people.  the mass of

people went home and went on with their lives.

Reply:

A government of mob is like the Mafia. They know only about

chaos and violence. If you believe in mobocracy then what can

I do.

Island:

Is.:  would that our “onion skin” be shed off simply by

emulating the british system and those of other countries that

you’ve mentioned.  i can’t imagine us valuing our freedom less

than the americans, though.  let’s take both of us; we are

expressing our opinions and are free to do so, as we are doing

it now in tb.  will we be killed?

Reply:

Who will kill us when we are not abusing our freedom?
     
Islander:

today’s monarchies in the countries you’ve mentioned are

ceremonial heads of state.  the running of their government is

left to parliament, with the prime minister as head.  their

governments remain democracies, not monarchies.

Reply:

Not in England. 

Islander:

Is.:  there’s no difference, really.  our own right of

suffrage is also our duty, as it is in the u.s.  (for every

right, we have a concomitant responsibility.)  and there’s no

such law, anywhere, that only the king has the right, as you

say.  as for the “people’s right to freedom of speech” being

“unabridged by law in the US and the Philippines”, surely, you

must have heard of libel cases.  that’s one of the ways our

laws and that of the u.s. “abridge” freedom of speech.

Reply:

That is if you are talking about our right and in the US...it

is a duty in your own interpretation but I am differentiating

suffrage as a duty in Australia and England and suffrage in

the Philippines and the US. In libel it is not abridging the

press because libel is crime again a person's reputation and

honor.

You did not get my point. England with an unwritten

constitution has no "bill of rights" in its originality. The

only person in the constitution who has the right is the king.

All other people are subjects to the king. But today in modern

times parliament legislates the right of the people. In it is

not constitutional but also legislated.     

Islander:

Is.:  there’s no monarch in australia.  as a former colony of

great britain, it is just a member of the commonwealth of

nations (previously named the british commonwealth) whose

members total 54 sovereign states, most of which were former

british colonies or dependencies of those colonies.  malaysia

is also a member.  so are rwanda and zimbabwe.  the latter,

currently with a runaway inflation, has dictator robert

mugabe.

everyone can criticize the monarch in england (the anti-

monarchists are alive and well and vocal), and all laws

anywhere in the civilized world remain unless otherwise

reversed or amended through a legislative process.

Reply:

In my knowledge about Australia in 1970 it was reported on TV

that the monarch of England is the monarch of Australia. In

the 90's again on the news on ABS-CBN it was reported that

Australia was having a referendum to retain the monarch of

England or become a republic. The people voted to retain the

monarch, therefore I believe that the monarch of England is

the monarch of Australia.

The anti monarchy in England can criticize the monarch but not

in the press. I think there is a difference between freedom of

speech and freedom of the press in England. 

==============================================================

My opinion which says that; "The late Princess Diana's

criticism of the monarchy when she was alive is a crime of

treason punishable by beheading." This statement is taken out

of context.

==============================================================


Islander:

Is.:  a big mass of people cannot be fooled; the filipino

people are no fools, unless you and i would presume that we

can speak for them as we speak for ourselves.  yes, you and i

could be fools, but those numbers who went to the streets? 

that calls for disbelief.

Reply:

It was easy for the anti Erap to fool the people. The fact

that almost all media outlets in Manila demonized Erap the

more the people were fooled.

Islander:   

yes, erap was democratically elected, but when he was

perceived (please note that in politics, perception is

everything) to have abused his powers, the masses spoke. 

that’s democracy of the streets, whether we like it or not.

Reply:

Not perceived by the people but perceived by media. The media

will always say that their opinion is the opinion of the

people. It is not true. The people spoke in an election. But

some power hungry politicians perceived that the election is

still 4 years long wait. For Filipino politicians one week is

already a long wait for the next election. That is how greedy

they are.

Islander:

Is.:  granting that marcos was responsible for such miracles,

what happens then to the other two factors, the law of supply

and demand and the vagaries of weather?  the best of policies

would be useless in this case if there’s no rice to export

because there are more mouths to feed now or that production

is damaged because of some force majeure.  by the way,

smuggling exists at all times in any country, martial law or

not, by different smugglers, and will continue to exist for as

long as people give vent to their greed.

currently, the term had also come to mean kleptocratic

governments (i.e. those in positions of power use it to

maximize their own gains) and the legislature is a mere rubber

stamp.  in short, a failed state.

Reply:

You granted that Marcos was able to export rice was a miracle.

So the two other factors that were favorable to Marcos were

also miracles. Kleptocracy... to mean that the Marcos regime

depends also in your perspective viewpoint. Cory and her

kamag-anak Inc. are not keptocrats because you believe them

better than Marcos. With only 6 years in power, with so many

disruption of coupd'etats her kamag-anak were able to build

houses in Green Valley and Antipolo, Rizal. Those who were

attached to the Sumulongs who have no business of any kind

before Cory's term in office, became bigtime instant

businessmen during the Cory administration. I should know

because I am living in Antipolo.

Islander: 

2007 - In September the Transparency International estimate of

the amount embezzled by Marcos is quoted in a report by the

Stolen Assets Recovery Initiative, a joint venture of the

World Bank and the United Nations Office of Drugs and Crime.

According to the report, “The channels whereby the money was

allegedly stolen were diverse, including the takeover of

private companies; creation of monopolies for sugar, coconuts,

shipping, construction, and the media; fraudulent government

loans; bribes from companies; and skimming off foreign loans

and raiding the public treasury. ”

Reply:

Did they prove that Marcos stole the money. He was already

charged of corruption together with Westinghouse Inc. but they

were acquited. Imelda was charged in NY with the RICO case but

was acquited. She was charged in the Philippines of graft but

the SC found her innocent. Everything had been thrown to them

including the kitchen sink. If they are guilty they should be

jailed. And now Bongbong is fast approaching to become another

Marcos in government. Imelda will be singing "Happy Days are

Again".

Islander:

Is.:  and marcos was not a usurper? Please note:

1971 - At a constitutional convention opposition delegates

introduce a provision to prevent Marcos from remaining as head

of state or government once his second term as president has

expired.  Marcos succeeds in having the ban overturned the

following year.

1972 - Using the excuse of an alleged assassination attempt

against Defence Minister Juan Ponce Enrile, Marcos declares

martial law on 21 September, promising to eliminate poverty

and injustice and create a "new society."  It is later

revealed that the assassination attempt had been staged by the

military.

Reply:

Marcos was not an usurper because what he did was through the

workings of the law. Martial Law is legal. It's in the

constitution.

The 1971 concon is irrelevant because it was overtaken by the

declaration of Martial Law. Just imagine the whole concon

delegates were convinced by Marcos to sign the new charter

believing that they will become interim members of the new

parliament.

Enrile's alibi that the attempt on his life was staged as a prelude to Martial Law is unbelievable. He said this during

his rebellion against Marcos when he was looking for allies in

Cory and Cardinal Sin, because his life again is in danger. He

branded Imelda a "kaskasera" and he did look into himself who is also a "kaskasero".   

WN                     

Islander:

Is.:   could have continued, but couldn’t, and didn’t. 

martial law anywhere in the world is only a temporary

palliative that everybody hates except those who are in power.

Reply:

I agree... Martial Law cannot be permanent but it is temporary

like the declaration of Martial Law in the province of Cavite

during the time of the American occupation in the Philippines.

The declaration of Martial Law in Mindanao during the uprising

of Kamlon. They were all temporary.

But in the US there were several instances of declaration of

Martial law in every state. The latest was in the state of

Louisiana during Katrina or in California during the

earthquake. The purpose of Martial Law according to the Americans is to hasten the redevelopment of its

infrastructure.

Islander:   

your supposition presumes that those who are opposed to

martial law will die before marcos.  as marcos was born in

1917, oppositionists at his age level and older may have been

of a negligible number by the time the country’s martial law

was on its way out.  (it had to be ended in 1982 as a

concession to pope john paul II’s visit.)

Reply:

Here is what I said;

"Martial Law could have continued for up to 30 or 50 years or

more. I think at this span of time anti Marcos and those who

are opposed to Martial Law might have been dead already. When

that happen another fresh leaders with new outlook in

governance will takeover the rein of government. Marcos fault

is that he did not sustain his New society in an unbroken pace

until the time there is change in our society."

At that span of time 50 years or more even Marcos is dead as a

door nail.

Islander:     

meanwhile, there were those of the generation next to his,

like the students at the time who, in the natural course of

things, made pretty obvious who’s bound to die first.  they

were the most rabid and vocal oppositionists.  (modern world

history shows that revolutions of the masses against the

established order start with students, i.e., from france in

1776 to prague’s velvet revolution and the color revolutions

in a number of countries.) 

Reply:

The French revolution was started by the masses but the

Philippine iinsurgency during the time of Marcos was led by

Joma Sison in the lecture room of UP. They were not the

masses. There were students who followed Joma Sison and in the

course of their rebellion against the government took up arms

and were killed but only a few. The revolution led by Joma

Sison is a losing cause.

Islander:   

another presumption here is that martial law will lead to a

change in our society.  it did change, for the worse.

Reply:

I agree... because people power that aborted the Marcos "New

Society" made the economy worse than during the authoritarian

regime of Marcos.

Islander:

presumptions of this kind that tend to confirm the consequent

to be true when it is still to be proved are nothing but

hypothetical; they make a basis out of something that is as

yet unestablished.  meanwhile, there were those who lived

through martial law and suffered, a fact which is clearly

established.

Reply:

I agree... it is hypothetical because the total reversal or

turning our system into a "New Society" did not happen. It was

aborted by people power. There were those who lived through

martial law and suffered but the majority of the people were

contented. Those who suffered under Martial Law were those few

who were imprisoned by Marcos and opposition to Martial Law.

Their imprisonment were only preventive. 

Islander:

just because we are dissatisfied and disaffected by what’s

around us now doesn’t prove that martial law and the so-called

‘new society’ would have been better.

levity aside, here’s a piece of recorded history of those

times:

1969 - Marcos wins a second four-year term as president.  He

is the first president to be reelected in the short history of

Philippine democracy.  However, growth slows and quality of

life begins to deteriorate. Violence and crime begin to become

everyday occurrences. The Communist Party of the Philippines

(CPP) starts to make inroads in the provinces, with its

military wing, the New People's Army (NPA) spreading across

the archipelago.

On the southern island of Mindanao, Muslim secessionists

organize under the banner of the Moro National Liberation

Front (MNLF).  In August Marcos launches major military

campaigns against the NPA and MNLF.

1970 - Social unrest continues to build.  Student

demonstrators attempt to storm the Malacanang Palace, the

presidential mansion, on 30 January.  Manila and other large

cities are rocked by random bombings.  Marcos blames leftists

and suspends habeas corpus in August 1971, a prelude to

martial law.

Reply:

You got it! These are the reasons why Marcos declared Martial

Law in 1972. That in his own judgement he believed the country

is in eminent danger.   

Islander:

Is.:   we must have been reading different books and news

sources.  australia and malaysia never had dictatorships. 

(mahathir bin mohamad served for 22 years as prime minister,

voted into office by the parliament without changing the

constitution.  some analysts believe he wanted to become a

dictator by changing an article of their constitution so that

the judiciary will fall under his control.  he did not

succeed.)

Reply:

I'm neither a bookworm. Hehe... nor I am a habitual newspaper

reader. But when it comes to politics I can create my own

political theory sometimes, but my lesson in politics started

from reading the newspaper long time ago. I found out that the

"real politik" is almost the same issue everyday. But it is a

learning process and the best we had was during the time of

Martial Law.

I'll take first the issue of Malaysia. You're telling me that

Malaysia never had dictatorship. The simple understanding of

the Malaysian government is that it is called a parliamentary

democracy. They patterned this kind of government after the

British and the same British style of parliament that Marcos

was very interested to copy.

In my previous posting/reply I told you the Marcos government

is a soft dictatorship because the civilian bureaucracy and

the Batasang Pambansa was functioning and not completely ruled

by the military. My point here is; parliamentary democracy is

a soft dictatorship. In this system, democracy is practice

only inside the parliament where members have the immunity to

criticize the government but outside of parliament they can be

sued if they criticize their system.

The part that the people play its role is, in the election. In

a system like Malaysia the people has no right to criticize

the government and its system they have a regulated press.

Filipino journalists were invited by some members of the press

of Malaysian to create criticisms against Mahathir and his

government. They were imprisoned and then deported.   

In other words their system is not participatory unlike the

Philippines.

Australia started as a big prison colony of the British where

their undesirables were banished without any hope of returning

back to England. The whole of Australia was administered by

the military and the first military governor general was

Admiral Arthur Phillip of the Royal Navy. Therefore the first

functioning government in Australia is based on Martial Law.
The Federation of Australia was established in 1901 by labor

unions. All other parties is the off shoots of the Labor Party

and liberal politics arrived only in 1948 after the war. It

was a soft dictatorship long time ago and it is still today.

But Australia today has adapted the system of tolerance but

the laws remain.
       
Islander:

i did mention earlier that marcos missed the chance of

becoming another lee kuan yew whose leadership paved the way

for  singapore’s economic miracle.  lee didn’t plunder his

city-state, he knew when to step down, and he retired as a

respected elder statesman.  as for marcos’s ‘soft

dictatorship’, here’s one for the record:

Reply:

I agree with your view that Lee Kuan Yew did not plunder. He,

like Marcos received also gratuities or as shares of stock and

commissions in recognition of a business and participation in

investments in Singapore. This is present in every system of

government all over the world. I believe this is not a form of

corruption but legal and part of the government system.

In Singapore the media are restrained by regulation to report

this as corruption. What the Singaporean media is reporting

are news are the news of corruption in other Asian countries

like the Philippines. There are people who are oppositors of

Lee Kuan Yew because they believe Lee is worse than Marcos. In

a Lee K.Y. style of dictatorship they are not allowed to eat

"chewing gum". To satisfy their anger against Lee they urinate

inside an elevator car.

The issue of coruption was debunked and proven by Marcos and

Westinghouse Inc. that they did not commit a crime when they

were sued by the Cory government of corruption and bribery. It

was heard in a Seattle court. The Cory government alleged that

Marcos received a bribe of $10 million dollars in building the

BNPP and they have a receipt found in Malacanang left by the

Marcoses when they fled to Hawaii to prove it.

The court rendered their decision in favor of Marcos and

Westinghouse Inc. The court concurred with the argument of

Westinghouse Inc. that the giving of commission is not a

bribe. Rene Saguisag who is the lead lawyer of the Philippine

government went home empty handed.     

Islander:           

The armed forces are politicized.  Officers from Marcos’s home

province are promoted to high rank.  A childhood friend of

Marcos becomes chief-of-staff of the armed forces and head of

the internal security network.  Officers are appointed to

manage several corporations and the military is ordered to

take control of all public utilities and the media.  The size

of the army is also increased, with numbers swelling from

about 58,000 in 1971 to 142,000 in 1983.

The military has virtually unlimited powers to search, arrest

and detain civilians without reason and without recourse to

legal representation.  Military tribunals are set up

throughout the country to try and sentence detainees.  The

civilian courts are stripped of their power and autonomy, and

the Philippine police force is placed under military control. 

It is estimated that more than 60,000 people are arrested

between 1972 and 1977.

Reply:

I agree with your opinion that Marcos favored the promotion of

military officers who came from his home province because I

believe he trusted them than anybody else. That is normal. Of

course he should appoint as power broker of Martial Law those

he had his confidence. The military was already politicized

before Martial Law because if not... then how did Ninoy Aquino

know about "Oplan Sagittarius" if there is no military officer

or officers loyal to him who told him that Marcos will suspend

the Writ of Habeas Corpus and declare Martial Law. 

The military has virtually unlimited powers to search, arrest

and detain civilians "not" without reason and those arrested

were detained in a military detention facility because in

cases where they committed crime of insurgency and rebellion

their cases should not be arraigned in a civilian court.     

Islander:

Is.:   His fault was to start an authoritarian regime, which

did not tolerate a free press.

Reply:

I can't figure it out why you find fault in the authoritarian regime of Marcos and you praised Lee Kuan Yew's leadership in authoritarianism who you believe, paved the way for economic miracle of Singapore. What do you mean? Marcos is not capable as a dictator and Lee Kuan Yew can. LKY was also a dictator and he did not also allow a free press.

Islander:

1972 â€" Opposition figures (including Benigno ‘Ninoy’ Aquino),

journalists, student and labor activists and criminals are

arrested and detained at military compounds run by the army

and the police.  Newspapers are closed and the mass media

tightly controlled.  Demonstrations, strikes and boycotts are

outlawed.  Marcos assumes absolute legislative power.  The

constitution, which permits presidents only two terms in

office, is suspended.

Reply:

Ninoy Aquino is like a mother hen about to lay egg. He is like Obama of the US, a good public speaker but a bad achiever in political leadership. He was detained by Marcos because he was one of the supporters of Bernabe Buscayno "alias Kumander Dante" who destabilized the government by creating havoc in the country side. Ninoy Aquino was also the mastermind of the UP student's barricade.

Islander:

“On media ownership in the Philippines, which includes, she

said, rich families and their cronies, such as Romualdez,

Marcos, Cojuangco, Prieto, Lopez, among others: 

‘Structurally, the ownership of all these major newspapers

(and broadcast media) is geared towards the ruling class of

the Philippines.  So ownership is the first restriction on

press freedom.  And if owners of a newspaper or publication

happen to run counter to the dominant bias of the (ruling

class) culture, then the owners are going to be in great

trouble.’

Reply:

You are partly correct... because in the case of Ninez Cacho Olivares whose newspaper was harassed by the military for criticizing Gloria Arroyo and please listen; in an atmosphere of freedom and democracy how much during Martial Law when Marcos curtailed the free press in pursuit of progress.

The part that I believe you are wrong is that you include the Marcoses, Romualdez, Cojuangco and Prieto as owners of media outlets. They are not.   

Islander:

She noted, as an example, the arrest and incarceration in 1969

of The Dumaguete Times editor and staffers â€" among them Hermie

and Mila Garcia of Toronto’s The Philippine Reporter â€" who

exposed the landgrabbing abuses by hacenderos in Negros

Oriental.  The Garcias, as well as Balita publisher and

editor, Ruben Cusipag, and Rosca herself were among the

hundreds of journalists and writers critical of the Marcos

dictatorship who were jailed in detention centers during

martial law.”

Reply:

What is your reason behind these issues. The issues you bring are normal in Martial Law. If they are journalists and they are critizing the Marcos authoritarian regime they can be detained because critizing the government is in breach of the press regulations introduced by Martial Law.

Islander:     
                                       
Is.:   yes, it took a thousand years for europeans to

slaughter each other and end up in modern times as having one

of the most civilized and civil societies.  we cannot even

compare ourselves to their brutal past which we do not share. 

how much more can our political past be comparable to theirs? 

you’re right.  this truly is beside the point. 

Reply:

I did not say "compare" but to "look" at their brutal past.


WN

way nada,

          first things first… i now appreciate why lorenzo admires your writing.  with your logic, grammar and all, you two can certainly communicate well with each other.

Reply:

Ok... let's try.

Islander:

          sorry that the termination of martial law vis-à-vis your expectations ran short.  no question about societal change that would take generations.  even martial law could not hurry that change, whether it was extended or not.  the so-called “new society” had its moments, until greed overtook the leaders.  sadly, marcos missed out on being another lee kuan yew.  he could have been.  but because of him, the world now has new english terms--- kleptocracy and imeldific.

          martial law had to be ended for the nation to start afresh.  as for the direction it had to take, it is up to us now.  we just have to trust ourselves once again to do the right thing.

Reply:

Martial Law could have continued for up to 30 or 50 years or more. I think at this span of time anti Marcos and those who are opposed to Martial Law might have been dead already. When that happen another fresh leaders with new outlook in governance will takeover the rein of government. Marcos fault is that he did not sustain his New society in an unbroken pace until the time there is change in our society.   

The progress of Australia, Malaysia and Singapore is a mirror for us to see that in an authoritarian system with soft dictatorship progress is fast. Marcos adapted a government with a soft dictatorship because his Martial Law regime did not employ military brass at its bureaucratic level. Marcos let the civilian government functioned.

Marcos fault was when he shortened his authoritarian regime and tolerated the free press it became his own pitfall. The people are not yet well educated in what kind of society he's bringing and then he tried to change horses in midstream that is why he failed.

Islander:

    the historical experiences of the european countries you mentioned are different from the philippine historical experience.  comparison, I believe, holds no merit here as it would defy logic.  (we cannot compare cucumbers with apples.)  you’ve mentioned monarchies whose ascensions appear like fairy tales in the pictures.  we never had kings and princes, obviously.  there were official pictures though of the then first couple, the marcoses, which appeared like they were royalty--- chairs designed like thrones, sashes for the couple (what were those for?), and imelda with her tiara.  come on…

Reply:

Our political past is comparable to that of the European countries. We experience kings and princes before. Is it not true that there were tribal kingdoms in the Philippines before the coming of the Spaniards? Like the kingdom of Rajah Soliman of Manila or the Kingdom of Rajah Humabon of Cebu.

But that is beside the point. I am not comparing... I was only suggesting to look into the past experience of these countries I mentioned like; England, Denmark and Sweden. These countries brutalized their own people long before there was an American system of democracy.

Today the situation is reversed; once they were contesting as to who is the most brutal to their own people; Now these countries are the world's promoter of Human Rights and giving the best of comfort to their own people.

Their experience if the authoritarian regime of Marcos was sustained maybe we will end up living in a world of fairy tale like them also. To repeat... I am not suggesting to follow their brutal past. Anyway Marcos said that his Martial Law is a smiling Martial Law.

Is there something to disagree with that idea?

Islander:

          yes, we were second to japan economically after wwII and all the way to the early 1960s.  it was during the 21-year term of marcos that we descended to being second after bangladesh, from the bottom.

Reply:

Before Martial Law we were second to Japan with an economy based on agriculture. When Martial Law was declared and Marcos adapted an authoritarian form of government, he started to industrialize the country. To attract investments, he put up the Export Processing Zone Authority [EPZA] and develop and promote agricultural products, by creating the National Irrigation Administration.

Marcos caused the acquisition of Filoil and changed its name to Petron and made it the biggest oil company of the country. To protect the Philippines from the rising price of oil, he established the Oil Price Stabilization Fund.[OPSF] A form of subsidy to protect consumers. Marcos also controlled the price of commodities. Through the establishment of the PSC or Price Stablization Council simple folks can buy commodity needs at reasonable price. The price of rice per kilo was sold at low price at every Kadiwa store.

Our car industry and the initial manufacture of Ford Fiera, Toyota Tamaraw, Mitsubishi Cimmaron and Volkswagen Sakbayan   were the mainstay of the Philippine industrialization. After he left office the leaders who preceded him bankrupted the economy. And the program of the car industry in our country, because it was started by Marcos was sidelined and investors transferred the program to Malaysia and Indonesia. Only the Toyota Tamaraw is left in the Philippines.

The specialty hospitals of the Philippines, like the Lung Center, Philippine Heart Center, Kidney Center, Philippine Children’s Center, were his response to public health. Sadly, after more than 20 years of Marcos departure, no specialty hospital of consequence has been established.

Islander:

          so did martial Law not work well for the greatest majority.  otherwise, the nation would have clamored for it to remain, no matter who called for the edsa revolt.

Reply:

Yes, the authoritarian regime of Marcos worked well for the greater good to the greatest number of Filipinos. My reason is this; during the time of Marcos Filipinos do not have to go abroad to look for a job. The jobs in the Middle East then, was not an economic solution, but a solution to give more employment to the Filipinos. Marcos signed PD's that were favorable for foreign investors which is why there were many export processing zones that were established in our country... Mactan in Cebu, Morong in Bataan and Baguio city.

Marcos caused the establishment of Offshore-Banking System in the Philippines thus upgrading the banking system and invite foreign banks to do business in the Philippines under certain incentives and guarantees.

There is no more clamor for his return, he is dead already but there are political sounds echoeing for the return of Marcos parliamentary form of government through charter change.[cha-cha] According to a study in UP the Marcos decrees and edicts that are deemed beneficial to the Filipino people are the OPSF or the law subsidizing the price of oil and the Price Control Law through the Price Stabilization Council which control the price of prime commodity in the market. 

Marcos adapted the French style strong president government but his authoritarian power is British like; Amendment no. VI in the constitution. 

Islander: 

          but when does freedom become too much?  maybe when there no longer is the rule of law.  fortunately, we have it.  our justice system works, imperfect as it may be, and criminals are still punished through proper procedures.  (that’s why the ampatuans are on trial.  that’s proper procedure.)  we can appreciate our freedom because it allows us to discuss this way, via tb, for one.  with martial law, this forum would not have been allowed to exist.

Reply:

Freedom becomes too much when you shout inside a movie house of fire when there is no fire. And when a journalist accepts bribe from an oppositionist to report of an unproven anomaly or reporting of corruption when clearly the journalist has no evidence to prove it then; it is abuse of freedom of the press.

Journalists today are likely to be assassinated doing their job than the practice of journalism during the time of Marcos. Seldom do we hear of reports about killing of journalists in countries like; Australia, Singapore, Malaysia, Vietnam, East timor, Laos, Samoa, Tonga, Indonesia, Bangladesh, Thailand and Fiji. These countries like the government of Marcos before are adapting a parliamentary form of government. 

The Ampatuans are on trial because there is a glaring evidence that they killed journalists but those accused by journalists in their reports in the papers as corrupt are not on trial, Why? The answer is because their allegation cannot stand in a court of law, but only a part and parcel of the real politik in our country. This is the reason why they become victims of an assassin's bullet.

It is on record that the Philippines has a high incident of journalists assassinated because of their profession. Does the record proved that freedom of the press is exercised in our country freely or they are killed because they lacked the most important journalistic etiquette... which is responsible reporting.     

You believe that in our country the "rule of law" is alive and thriving. If so, Erap as a post-Marcos president is a product of the belief in Edsa, so why forced him out of power if there is a rule of law? Erap was elected overwhelmingly through the will of the people in an election. The ousting of Erap from the presidency is contrary to the tenet of democracy. You can not see the rule of law there but clearly it is mob rule.

Islander:

          meanwhile, doesn’t it seem like what works well for the u.s. and not for r.p. and what works well for England, Denmark and Sweden may not also work well for r.p.?  by the way, the only difference between those european countries and the u.s. is that the former have institutional monarchies with prime ministers who run their governments while that of the u.s. is a presidential form of government.  everything else is the same, freedom, democracy and all.

Reply:

Our government is patterned after that of the us and it's not working well for us because of cultural differences. We are onion skin that we easily succumbed to criticism or we cannot take in too much abuse from the press. In the US criticism is a right and it is ingrained already in the system. The Americans value more their freedom than anything else. We don't... those who believe that they are free to express their opinion are killed as I have explained the issue above.

But what works well for England, Denmark and Sweden, I believe they are adaptable to the Filipinos. Which is why my point of making Australia, Singapore and Malaysia as our mirror for emulation as their system is a pattern of the British.

The US is a republican state with the president as head of state with three branches in government. The US is adapting a capitalist economic system. This is why it's called capitalist democracy. It is totally different from England, Denmark and Sweden because these countries are called socialist democracy. They have monarchs as head of state and they are a socialist state partly adapting the Marxist principle in economics. 

Let us focus our attention on the British system because this is the country that the Americans revolted. Here are their differences; If the US and the Philippines have the right to suffrage, in England and Australia suffrage is not a right but a duty. In law the only person who has the right is the king. The people's right to freedom of speech is unabridge by law, in the US and the Philippines... but in England and Australia you have no right to criticize the monarch and its system. Criticism today against the government is tolerated but the law still remains.

The late Princess Diana's criticism of the monarchy when she was alive is a crime of treason punishable by beheading.   
Islander:

          the Filipino people, stomachs full or not, cannot be fooled into screaming in the streets for freedom and democracy if these indeed existed.

Reply:

They were fooled to go out into the street to oust Erap. Erap was democratically elected president.

What I mean by "democracy of the stomach" is that majority of the people are not concern too much about politics but more concern on the food on the table next meal.


Islander: 

          the export-import of rice depends on many things--- policies, law of demand and supply, the vagaries of weather included.  instant noodles didn’t exist yet in the 1980s.

Reply:

If the export-import of rice depends on --- policies, law of demand and supply then... Marcos policy before is better than today because we were able to export, with abundant rice production because of the Masagana program of Marcos. It was also the right timing when the mass production of the famous miracle rice in the Philippines.

Today after Marcos the Philippines returns as a rice importer from Vietnam and the irony is that we backslide to the pre-Martial Law era of smuggling rice into the country when a boat load of rice was unloaded off the coast of Albur.

Islander:

          even if it were 100%, it still does not prove that martial law does not constitute a banana republic.  (lazaro, bless him, is a lawyer for the marcos’s plunder cases.)

Reply:

The meaning of a banana republic pertains to a country with no permanent government or a government that cannot last to its prescribe term because of incessant military coup d'etat. It is called a banana republic because like banana plant when it grows it will produce banana shoots that grow strong at the side of the mother or original banana. Most of these countries are in South America. On record the highest number of coup d'etat is Bolivia.

Marcos government was stable for 21 years and no off shoot government grew at its side. Unlike the Cory government which experience the Manila Hotel capers with the late Arturo Tolentino proclaimed himself as the president and Gringo Honasan's numerous coup d'etats the Cory government looks more a banana republic.

The GMA government is worse because she was exercising the power of the president as an usurper. Why? Because Erap the duly elected president of the Philippines is alive who chose to be persecuted politically rather than go into exile.

Islander:

          the question of politics is answered by politics and, depending on which side one is on, that’s what we have been actually discussing.

Reply:

I agree!

WN
     
     

Islander,

This is what I said two years ago. "I did not expect Marcos will terminate Martial Law in our country in just too short a time." To change a society is not only a matter of 11, 20 or 30 years. I was very much positive that his "new society" will flourish long after his death... or even much longer to those who were younger than the generation of Marcos and Ninoy. I mean a fresh generation will emerge... as fresh as the morning sun to take over the system that maybe considered harsh to the previous generation but ideal to the new ones. This is what I was comtemplating of what the "New Society" will bring us.

Take the experiences of England, Denmark and Sweden. If you look deeper into their past they can be seen as brutal countries. They oppressed their own people, but today their people are earning higher per capita than any country in the world. And with their grand pageantry especially during a royal coronation, I think of these countries as if they are still living in a fairy tale world. Hehehe.... 

Some countries in Asia were trained especially by England to follow their footstep like Australia, Hongkong, Singapore and Malaysia. And to prove a point... these countries in Asia are today earning higher than the Philippines when in fact we were second to Japan economically after WW-II.

I am not of the opinion to follow a brutal system but what I am thinking of is for the Philippines to get rid of too much freedom and a free-wheeling democracy. Our system is patterned after that of the United States  and it is working very well for them but it is not working for us. The truth is; democracy in our country is beneficial only to a few like the press, the academe, the business elite and the intelligentsia but it is not working well to the vast majority.

You think Marcos was bad because he manipulated the law in his favor. But how bad if compared to EDSA I and II? The two Edsas are worse than the declaration of Martial Law! They not only manipulated the law but they also fooled the people to scream in the street for freedom and democracy when in fact during the time of Marcos the people did not go hungry. The most important to man is the democracy in his stomach. Today, rice which is our staple food is changed to noodles or worse than that; Filipinos are resorting to soup with kropeck flavor... while before during the time of Marcos we were exporting rice to other countries.

The Marcos era constitution is changed but not his PD's. Yes I agree with you that there are Marcos PD's that are repealed by the Cory administration but to be more accurate I would like to quote Atty. Manuel M. Lazaro, he said;

"Significantly, out of the 7,883 presidential issuances, only 67 PDs or less than .01 percent have either been repealed or modified. The minimal percentage of 67 PDs either repealed or modified by EO No. 187 of President Corazon Aquino were the decrees increasing the penalties for certain offenses against public order and security, e.g., PDs 38, 1735, 1834, 1974 and 1996."

Therefore 99.99% of Marcos PD's are still enforce until today.

And with regard to your question if; "martial law was good"... I think this is a question of politics and it can be accurately answered politically. But if you ask a personal question to the person who was a victim of Martial Law, then of course it is not good.

WN

Quote from: islander on March 03, 2010, 04:47:38 PM

edsa I was a nation's effort to effect change.  after 21 years, we have bent backward too long.  the process may have had its failings.  there may have been puppeteers who held the strings.  (well, who says revolutions don't have manipulators?)  the results may be disappointing as we are disappointed now.  but edsa uno at least assured us that power is still in the people. 

let the new generation learn better and effect change better.  best of all, let the new generation be better politicians than their elders.  (by the way, is jinggoy better than erap?)   

I agree with you partly that edsa One is an effort to effect a change but I think not the whole nation agree with Edsa. This is not a simple case of changing your shirt when it's dirty. This has something to do with politics. So if we are talking here about change... is it not the declaration of "Martial Law" was also an effort by Marcos to effect a change?

What were the reasons why Marcos was interested for Filipinos to live in a "New Society"? And what are the reasons of the late Ninoy, Cory and Cardinal Sin, the Manila elite and owners of big business to backslide to the old society?

I think we can draw here a comparison. The notion that Marcos declared Martial Law because he wanted to extend his power is too unreasonable an alibi, but he declared Martial Law because he believed the country was in danger of rebellion, which is in my opinion his declaration was legal and within the confine of the constitution.

Your idea that Edsa One as an "effect of change" was actually staged, orchestrated and manipulated is a clear admission that it is not truly from the people but caused by people who were sworn enemies of Marcos politically.
   
During the time of Marcos he signed more than 8,000 decrees, letters of instruction, executive orders and presidential proclamations for the good of the country and if they were really for change and they think Marcos is wrong and he is bad, they should have repealed all these laws... but the truth is; they did not repeal the laws Marcos signed because it works for the Filipino people until now.

Your question; "is jinggoy better than erap".... is one also of the reasons why Marcos changed our system of electing our nation's leaders. This is dealing more on the personality of the person rather than the issue of governance and its party's platform. When Marcos introduced the "New Society" he changed our electoral system to "block voting" . This is a system of election where you have to vote for a party and not a person.     


WN

Lorenzo,

The cultural division since the coming of the Spaniards in our country did not move, evolve or change. Nothing is new... it is still the same from its conception. One opinion maker I read in the papers extolling the cultural heritage that was brought by the Spaniards to our country. He was refering to the ilustrado culture, to which I replied; that the ilustrado culture only brings division among the Filipinos. I said this; "the ilustrado culture is a racist culture."

I noticed this division since I was a young man that when you are looking for a job at the Coca-Cola Plant of Tagbilaran you must be a meztiso to qualify as salesman. This is also true in Manila and until now parts of your resume to qualify for a job is that; you must have a pleasing personality, you must be a Catholic and if you are already old you are discriminated in favor of younger people.

Susmarosep! Ang mga maot ug nawong intawon dili maka-trabaho. Hehehe...

And the most blatant display of racial discrimination in our country was the political persecution of Erap. The line of thinking among the people who are believers of the mainstream media is like this; since Erap was elected by the poor... he is not qualified to be the president, he cannot speak English, he is not well educated and he has no knowledge of governance. For these reasons he must be ousted.

WH

Quote from: bol-anon nga cebuano on March 03, 2010, 07:34:38 AM
i think ang tanang mga convicted soldiers sa kasong murder kang ninoy gipang pardon na ni GMA.

Pardon or no pardon is not the point. The point I emphasized is; the convicted killers of Ninoy are not asking for a pardon... but they are asking the SC to re-open their case as they have new information regarding the truth in the murder of Ninoy. Boot pasabot mga bag-ong evidencia nga wa masulti sa panahon nga powerful pa ang mga Marcos. Pero karon sila na si Cory ang di gusto nga abrihan pa ang kaso ni Ninoy. Pasensiya na sila nga wa sila motug-an sa unang pagdungog sa kaso.

In my opinion president GMA will not just pardon a person or persons without them asking for a pardon. If they ask, their request will not come in an instant but the Board of Pardon and Parole will study the case before their request will reach the president. 

The only case GMA granted pardon was to Erap. Erap did not ask for pardon either. He wanted to petition his conviction in the SC. Arroyo did not wait for Erap to petition the SC. She pardoned him immediately. You know why? Because she knows Erap did not commit a crime. The case of Erap is political. As long as Erap's case is pending there is the presence of a constitutional crisis. If the Sandiganbayan have decided in favor of Erap the more the system is broken. It will come out Erap is really the legal president.

So even if it is inadequate for the court to convict Erap... for political expediency the court convicted him and he was never given a chance to go to the Supreme Court.

WN   

Quote from: bol-anon quo nyur! on March 03, 2010, 03:55:53 AM
Way Nada, kong walang unta PATYA ni MALCOS si AQUINO, way sigurog KBL pa gihapon ang astig sa Pinas:D

Bol,

Mao pud nay akong katahap sa una nga si Marcos ang nagpapatay ni Ninoy. Hibaw ka dinhi sa Pinas maoy kinaiya nang mag-imbento ug storya [conspiracy theory] nga mao kalingawan nga "talking points" sa mga leftists. Di ba mao nay akong giingon... kanang maga tomu-tomu ug mga pasangil nga storya.

Ako motoo ko nga diha sa sud sa gobierno ni Marcos ang nagpapatay ni Ninoy pero dili si Marcos. Tungod lang kay sija ang presidente adtong panahona nahug lang sa iyang kamot ang responsibilidad sa pagkamatay ni Ninoy.

Sa akong pagtan-aw kadtong gobierno ni Marcos diha nay "power struggle within" ug nahibaw pud si Ninoy ini mao to nga; "He also jumped into the fray"... pero siya ra pud ang nahi-agum. Bisan si Ninoy sa iyang mga diskurso sa Amerika moingon siya nga masakiton na si Marcos nga boot pasabot nga kinahanglan siyang mouli kay di siya gusto nga ipiyal ang kaugmaon sa Pilipino ngadto sa militar ug gatoo pud sija nga siya ang makasunod ni Marcos.

Ang gobierno karon ug gusto gyud nga mahibaw-an ang kamatuoran naa karon sa Muntinglupa Prison ang mga bilanggo nga mga sundalo nga na-convicto sa pag patay ni Ninoy. Karon mga miembro na sa relihiyosong grupo nga mga "Praise the Lord" gusto nila ibalik ang pagdungog sa korte sa kaso ni Ninoy kay gusto nilang ibutyag na ang kamatuoran kung kinsa ang nagpapatay.

Ngano man nga dili man mosugot ang gobierno? Ang tubag, tungod kay naa may mga tawo nga gapugong nga mabuksan pa ang kaso. Kini sila "personally affected by the declaration of Martial Law" nga karon hilabihang pagka kontra kaayo ni Marcos... nga karon ug nahimo nang demonyo si Marcos dili na nila gusto mausob ang hulagway niya.

Sa akong panglantaw tagsa o tingali wa nato dinhi nga na-apektohan nga personal sa "Martial Law". Kita sa pagka tinood mosagap lang ta ug mga balita nga pasiugda sa mga na-apektohan sa "Martial Law" nga demonyo ni si Marcos. Tungod ini kadaghanan nato nahipatik sa atong alimpatakan ang mga nakasuwat sa mantalaan nga hilabihang pagbiay-biay sa pagka tawo ni Marcos.

WN   

Ang mga tawo nga moingon nga dautan si Marcos mao tong mga tawo diin iyang gitang-tangan ug mga kagawasan sa pagsaway pinaagi sa "press", kadtong mga kontra partido sa pulitika pananglitan si Ninoy Aquino, kadto pung mga negosyante nga iyang gikuhaan ug gahum sa "exportation" ug kadtong gitawag ug mga "political romantics" nga mogakos lang ug mga ideya sa pulitika bisan ug wa nila masabti ug husto ug unsa... sama pananglit sa mga komunista.

Kini silang tanan suma total wa pa ni sa kamajingking sa kadaghanon sa mga tawo nga nabulahan sa Martial Law ni Marcos. Oo dihay sayop nga nahimo ang mga sundalo sa pagpasunod sa "Martial Law" pero dili pasabot nga ang ilang sayop makalapas sa mga maayong tinguha sa "New Society". Si Marcos namili lang unsay iyang himoon sa pagpalampos sa nasud; pinaagi ba sa pagdapig niya sa mga dagkong higante sa negosyo sama pananglit sa mga Lopezes, Roceses, Lupas ug uban pa... o adto ba siya modapig sa katawhan diin mas daghan ang nahimutang?

Ang gidapigan mao ang katawhan ug usa sa mga tawo nga iyang gisaligan nga mo-amoma ug motabang sa katawhan mao ni si Danding Cojuangco.

Atong hisgutan ni si Danding kay "controversial" nga pagkatawo sa diha nga napukan na si Marcos. Gawas sa mga Marcoses siya ang wa undangi ug gukod sa gobierno ni Cory pinaagi sa PCGG tungod kay matud pa; ang pagka adunahan ni Danding gikan kuno sa kuarta sa gobierno.

Sa akong panglantaw sakto lang nga mahimong adunahan siya [pwera ang katuman nga kasina] kay ngano man... tungod kay sija ang nag-mugna ug mga paagi diin niya natabangan ang yano nga Pilipino sama pananglit sa mga nagtanum ug lubi. Iyang gimugna ang Cocofed nga nagabaod nga kung ikaw nagtanum ug lubi unya nagbaligya ka ug kopras mahimo kang miembro sa gimugna nga kapunungan. Ang mga miembro kung magbaligya ug kopras katlian sa Cocofed ug 0.55 ka centabos sa kada usa ka gatos ka kilong kopras.

Kini gitawag ug "coconut levy" pero wa mosupak ang mga tawo nga nagbaligya lang ug kopras sa 200, 300 o 500 kilos kada ani. Kadtong hingsupak ug taman hangtud sa ilang bukog mao tong mga nagbaligya ug tonelada-toneladang timbang sa ilang kopras kada ani sama pananglit ni kanhing senador sa Pilipinas Emmanuel Pelaez. Sila nga dagko ug kalubin-an maoy dagko pud ug hulog sa "coconut levy". Mao ni sila ang mga tawo nga nangampa ug nagbaton ug nga hugot nga kapungot sa gihimo ni Danding kay dut sa ilang kahiladman tua hingpatigbabaw ang tumang kasina kay kuno kining "coconut levy" tua lang kuno masud sa bulsa ni Danding.

Kining Cocofed man gud dili man kay "brain child" ni Danding kundi iya ning gi-awat nga "cooperative system" sa Australia. Si Danding nahibaw ining sistemaha tungod kay ang uban niyang mga negosyo naa sa Australia mahimutang. Sa Australia man gud tanang linya sa negosyo anaay kapunungan nga kooperatiba sama pananglit sa gatas, harina, baka, karnero, kabayo, prutas, klase-klaseng mina ug uban pa. Nakita ni Danding nga malampuson busa iyang gi-awat.

Apan wa motan-aw ang mga kritiko ni Danding sa kauswagan kundi tua sila motan-aw sa tawo nga hing asenso nga pasanginlan nila dayon nga k******n sa kuarta sa lungsod bisan ug wala sila'y igong kapasikaran sa ilang pasangil. Boot pasabot tomu-tomu lang ug hisgut labi na ang atong "media".

Kining gi-awat ni Danding sa Australia moingon ba ang mga puno-an sa mga mantalaan sa Pilipinas nga k******n pud ang mga Australyano tungod ining napuro na sila kooperatiba?

WN   

The true nature of Edsa I and II is a naked grabbed of power. It is a feeling of pride to some people to say that they were at Edsa as part of history during those four days in February when they toppled Marcos. 

In those four days in February it shows the influence media had on the people when they reversed the true meaning of democracy. The media wanted us to believe that Edsa is democratic and some of the people, I believe they are the minority... like cattle led into the slaughterhouse gave their all out faith and support of Edsa. 

The propaganda spun by the media that Edsa one is the restoration of our democracy is purely hogwash because... if you look at the people who led to restore our democracy like the late Cory Aquino and Cardinal Sin, the military, the academe and the elite of Manila are almost the same people who ousted Erap from power. And they let the ordinary people who do not even know the implication and meaning of a political issue to protest in the street for justice and democracy.

The late Cory Aquino the leader of the first Edsa did not understand what she was doing when she led the people again in the ousting of Erap. She is reverred as the restorer of democracy. Erap as a post Marcos president is a product of the belief in Edsa. The ousting of Erap from power is contrary to the tenet of democracy therefore the idea that Cory Aquino restored our democracy is a misnomer that will lead us to believe that Edsa I and II are all political maneuvers to advance their own selfish interest... which is the greed for power.

WN   

Ms da binsi,

Tinood na nga si Marcos nakakuarta sa panahon nija... pero bisan ug kinsay imong ibutang sa puesto naay panguarta. Dili mawa na bisan asa sa tibook kalibutan kay dili man ta mga santo. Kung manguarta dili unta i-apil ang kuarta sa lungsod.

Usa sa mga hinungdan nganong gi declare ang Martial Law tungod kay sa wa pa ma-deklara ang Martial Law ang mga negosyante sa una ug mga tawo sa gobierno maoy klarong nangawat sa kaban sa lungsod. Mas dautan! Hunahuna-a ni nga kita "classified as an agricultural country" busa ang atong abot gikan sa copra ug asukal adto gyud unta idapat sa kinahanglanon sa tawo. Apan dili man maka-abot sa mga tawo kay tungod dili man mobayad sa hustong buhis ang mga negosyante kay ang copra ila mang gi-smuggle, boot pasabot nga pinaagi sa pagkarga ug copra sa mga hilit ug tago nga mga pantalan labi na sa Mindanao ilang ma-export ang copra without proper documentation. Ang nahibaw ini kadto ra pung mga tawo sa gobierno nga apil sa bahin. Mao ni gitawag ug technical smuggling. Mao pung sistemaha sa BIR ug custom.

Mao usab sa exportation of sugar. Kanang storya sa mga Ilonggo bahin anang giingon ug; "sa amon to ginapiko ginapala ang kuarta may sigarilyo ka ba jan to"... tinood na kay pagapikohon nila ang yuta aron itanum ang tubo ug ang abot nga asukal gipala sa mga nagtrabaho didto sa bodega. Sila mga "sakada" wa jamo-jamo'y kuarta pero ang ilang mga amo nga gitawag ug "sugar planters" maoy sige ug palit ug bag-ong modelo sa awto kada tuig.

Kining copra ug asukal maoy gisaligan sa gobierno nga makakuha ta ug dollar nga boot pasabot "cash crop" nato ni. Sa pag-declare ug Martial Law mao ning duha ka industriya ang gipakanaugan ug "Monopoly Law" ni Marcos. Para ang duha ka "cash crop industries" dili maka-ipsut sa buhis sa gobierno. Ang gihimo ni Marcos nga "Government Controlled Corporation lang ang mahimong mag-export.

Tungod ining paagiha naglaway intawon ang mga sugar ug coconut planters nga gahimo sila ug paagi nga mapukan si Marcos. Usa sila sa nagpasiugda sa people power. Ilang gi-awhag ang katawhan nga dautan si Marcos aron mapukan. 

WN   

My experience with Edsa started at the MIA when Ninoy Aquino arrived from exile in the US on August 21, 1983. My cousin and I were the ones representing the Bohol opposition party. I did not see the shooting of Ninoy but I can relate everything what happened outside and inside the airport terminal building.

In my opinion Edsa one was not spontaneous but there were people who organized the rallies through the phones. The issue about the shortage of commodities is not true. The people who started to spread the issue about shortages were the ATOM of Butch Aquino. Most of them are junior  executives in Makati who are anti Marcos. They knew the forecast of production. Whenever a certain product in a certain month will slow down in production they will immediately spread the words that there is a shortage. People will get scared and they will start panic buying... creating an artificial shortages.

I should know this because I was a member of the ATOM group.

I come to realize that Edsa I and II were not good for the political and economic health of our nation. It created uncertainty that Filipinos are looking for works abroad because the Philippines has lesser oportunity today than during the time of Marcos.

During the time of Marcos local employments are available to the people because the government encouraged investors to open EPZA's in Bataan, Cebu and Baguio. The manufacture of computer chips in Asia started in Philippines but investors shied away because there were many political extremists who sabotaged their investment in our country.

WN       



   

Quote from: perezkelly on February 25, 2010, 05:42:15 AM
Yes, the community of Biabas is predominantly Eskaya but the flag itself is not. This flag and other artefacts are kept very safe and not always shown to outsiders.
@Way Nada: (Sorry my Visayan is not up to scratch) It would be a good idea for experts to investigate this flag but I think it important that this should be done respectfully - museums are not always the safest places either. Over the years, a number of artefacts have disappeared from Bohol's provincial museum and the library. The slogan suggests a katipunan origin for the flag, but according to Marianito Luspo, there is no evidence that the katipunan were ever organised on Bohol. Sabas Ligones is the only probable link between the katipunan and the Bohol fighters. Also, I'm pretty sure that carbon dating cannot give you such a specific date and recent date. It would be necessary to prove that the flag was produced in the late 1890s - deciding its actual provenance would be even harder.

Reply:

I believe the people who made this flag are the followers of the Katipunan under Aguinaldo. I don't think they are the Eskaya... but I believe they were the loyal followers of Pedro Samson who was the chief of the militia formed during the erstwhile Republic of Bohol. My uncle used to say sometimes in the 1960's; "I wonder where is Pedro Samson now. He was the militia leader who defied the American occupation of Bohol."   

Being the chief of Bohol government's militia Pedro Samson was also offered the same post to serve as the chief constable of the police force formed by the Americans. He ran to the hills with his men and fought the American occupiers. He was caught and was amnestied to serve again and ran again to the hills. The defiance of Samson against the Americans is like the defiance against the government experienced by Gringo Honasan. The last time he defied the American authority and went to the hills he was not heard of again by the town folks. Pedro Samson was never found either he was summarily executed by the Americans or he died hiding in towns not reached by the Americans. He was a Boholano hero but the American authority in Bohol erased his exploits and heroism.   

I can conjecturize when the Americans started burning barrios in their mopping operations where Pedro Samson was believed to be hiding like for example  when they burned barrio Lonoy of Jagna... maybe Samson and his band of rebels were there and ran farther east until they reached Guindulman.

This Katipunan flag is the evidence that the information in the diary of George Percival Scriven is correct that the Boholanos were loyal to Pres. Emilio Aguinaldo.

According to his diary; Every town that Maj. Hale and George Percival Scriven went... in every government building in a show of loyalty and reverrence the Boholanos hanged the picture of Aguinaldo. It was the initiative of the presidente of Bohol Bernabe Reyes who sought the help of Florentino Torres [The name does it sound a bell?] for Pres. Aguinaldo to grant independence and make Bohol a republic.

WN

Quote from: fdaray on February 24, 2010, 06:57:04 AM
perezelly..., the photo is the flag of the Eskaya Tribe beleived to be founded by Mariano Datahan

Kanang nakasuwat sa bandera klaro kaayong binisaya... ang mga Eskaya naay ilang kaugalingong sinuwatan. Dili ni sila Eskaya kay kadtong mga Eskaya dili mo-ipon ug laing tawo. Mao bitaw na nga na-preserved ang ilang sinuwatan ug sinultihan.

WN

Ang maayo unta ini ug naay makatambag nga i-donate na lang ni sa national museum aron dili madugta. Didto mapahimuslan hinoon ni nga makita sa ubang Pilipino nga didto sa layong dapit sa Bohol diay diha nay "fervor of revolution" batok sa mga langyaw nga gusto mo-agaw sa atong nasud.

WN

Kanang pung sa ibabaw naga-ingon; "Ang Mga Anak sa Balintawak". Akong pagtoo ini nga bandera ni sa mga sumsunod sa rebolusyon batok sa mga katsila. Anha nimo makita nga sa panahon sa rebolusyon diha na puy sumusunod sa Bohol. Ang maayo ini nga makuhaan unta ug DNA aron mahibaw-an ug ganus-a ang panapton [cloth] gihabol o "knitted".

WN

Quote from: magbalantay on February 21, 2010, 08:07:28 PM
So Way Nada, ang atong media pasumanginlan ani? Mau ba? Sige lang tagawtaw nga wai klarong ebedensya? Bason baja feeling pud self-righteous ning mga pinoy kay Christian country baja ta. Isig tudlo ta nga kini si tampulano/ tampulana limbongan ,pro sija ra diay. Kusog lang ta mo tagaw2x maski wai ebedensiya mau na seguro. Naa pud kai point ana

Mao na... sakto ka! Ang media maoy "corrupt" kay ug matud pa ni Totoy Talastas sa radyo sa mga Iglesia ni Kristo; "sila kuno nga naa sa media mura pud kuno sila ug mga abogado nga diin ang ilang opinyon paga-bayran". Di tiaw mo na! Di kurap ang media kung dili kinasingkasing ang ilang panghunahuna. Dili lang ni kay sa radyo lang kundi sa print ug sa television nga dili kinasingkasing ang ilang pagsilbi sa katawhan. Kalingaw lang intawon sumsuman sa mga naa sa media ang mga pulitiko pero diay kurap pud. Wa la'y makasaway nila kay kinsa may mosaway?

Who is going to police the media?

Kining tagawtaw kabahin ni sa atong giingon ug "freedom of speech" nga gipasalig sa atong batakang balaod [constitution] pero kinahanglan nga naay kinutuban kay kung "absolute" ang atong kagawasan sa sulti ug pagsaway nga bahala na ug unsay mahitabo mao nay hinungdan sa pagkapukan sa gobierno. Kinsa may makalolooy? Ang gobierno ba? Dili... kundi ang katawhan.

WN

The second envelop that purportedly contain the damning evidence to convict Erap was eventually opened in the senate after they toppled Erap from power. It was petitioned to be opened by Atty. Arno Sanidad. Sen. Pemintel who was the senate president at that ordered the second envelop to be opened.

Lo and behold what they found. They found out the evidence that Erap is not the owner of the deposit in the Equitable Bank. The depositor is Jaime Dichaves. It was also witnessed by the bank's president that the depositor Jaime Dichaves requested the bank for him to use the alias Jose Velarde.

But this was never publish in the newspaper because the information is favorable to Erap. The media deprived Erap of his political and human right. It is the media that was instrumental in the demonization of Erap and his eventual downfall.   

Naay akong mga panghunahuna bahin ining "corruption" ngano nga sa ato ra man ang kusog nga mga isyu bahin ining butanga nga unta kining "corruption" naa man ni sa tanan sook sa pang-gobierno?

Sa laing nasud labi na sa Amerika nga maoy panag-ingnan sa atong gobierno kusog pa ang ilang corruption kumpara sa ato. Ikaduha klaro kaayo sa katawhan pananglitan kanang giingon sa Amerika ug; "second Louisiana purchase". Si congresswoman Landrieu gihatagan sa administration ni Obama ug 350M para moboto siya sa healthcare bill.

Sa Pilipinas ang isyu sa corruption naa ra kutob sa newspaper ug ang reporter way igong kapasikaran o ebedensiya nga kini si pananglitan "Tampulano" kurap ni nga tawo. Dili maka-abot sa korte kay way pruweba. Kining atong mga balita mao ni nakaingon nga kadto intaw'ng gagmay nga mga empleyado sa gobierno pananglit ang usa ka municipal treasurer o kana bang mga empleyado sa costum ma-aghat nga mangawat sa kuarta sa tawo kay nabasa nila sa news nga ang mga dagkong opisyales sa gobierno nangawat man pud.

Ang tinood nga ang mga dagkong opisyales sa gobierno pananglit si Marcos wa mangawat sa kuarta sa mga tawo kundi hingdawat ug commission sa mga dagkong negosyo nga hingsud sa gobierno. Sa Amerika wa man ni himoang isyu nga corruption kay commission man ni. Legal ang commission sa Amerika ug legal pud sa Pilipinas. Sa ubang nasud legal pud mao na kita bisan ug legal himo-an jud ug isyu nga maoy naghimo ug dautang dungog sa atong nasud nga kita "corrupt nation".

     

Quote from: ms da binsi on February 20, 2010, 04:35:17 AM
na shock bitaw ko sa Norway. Norway is a very rich country even richer than US per capita. di jud ko ka tuo.

Wa masa-ag ang Norway. Nasayop ang reporting kay ang Norway angay mahimutang sa "least corrupt" kay ang iyang score 8.7 nga pareha ug score sa Canada nga tua pud sa listahan sa least corrupt. Ang mga corrupt countries ang ilang score gikan sa 1.4 hangtud sa 1.9 sa listahan.

Karon ngano man nga ang Pilipinas wa man mahimutang sa lista? Ang tubag nga tungod kay mga corrupt ang nag-survey. Hingdawat pud tingali ug "lagay" gikan sa Philippine government para dili nila ibutang sa lista ang Pilipinas.

Quote from: ngs on October 30, 2009, 05:33:42 PM

WN

We just need to be realistic here. We all knew that corruption is super rampant in our country. Was there anybody being convicted of corruption? Imprisoned?     

We all knew that they are corrupt. But to prove them in court is a different story. GMA is also corrupt. Impeachment against her does not work and we all knew the reasons. Do you believed that erap is not corrupt? erap was noted of much wrongdoings as president. although you can say he was not even convicted with the plunder. but in reality he did the plunder. just proving it in court is difficult, as you said, they can thwart the law. The justice system does not work as it meant to be.

Now, both GMA and Erap noted to be corrupt and have wrongdoings as President, You still want erap to be president? What for?

My reply:

If you want to be realistic about corruption either you know it with evidence in your hand or somebody is convicted of the crime of corruption. But if you know about corruption because you read it in our daily newspaper that it is rampant in our country... I will not call that as realistic.

So coming from the horse's mouth you admittedly said that; "to prove them in court is a different story". Therefore if we say that; "Erap is corrupt"... that is only an issue because we have no proof or evidence to show that he is corrupt. Who is telling us that Erap is corrupt? It's the newspaper... and the issue of corruption is part and parcel of the Philippine real politik.

We believe in democracy and one of the freedoms that we have is that; newspaper publishers are free to print and speak of corruption against the government. They are free to take issue of corruption against government bureaucrats and influence public opinion but the last bulwark of our democracy is the law. The proof that a person is corrupt is in a court of law. And in your opinion; "to prove them in court is a different story". Why you said that? Because it's hard to prove the issue of corruption. The evidence is only in the newspaper. To consummate the crime of corruption... it takes two to tango. There must be more than one person committing the crime. The corrupt and the corrupter.       

You asked; "Do you believed that erap is not corrupt?" Yes... I believe that he is not and I believe GMA is not and neither Marcos. But I believe that no government in the world is not corrupt. Only a government of angels is free from corruption.

WN

I wrote this reply to NGS October 29, 2009;

Those who are lovers of the constitution will treat this provision as ideal for the Filipino people. But this constitutional provision was not respected by those who believed that they are above the law. I'll name a few of these people. They are Gloria Arroyo, the late Jaime Cardinal Sin, the late Cory Aquino, Fr. Joaquin Bernas, the media, the academe, Hilario Davide Jr. and his associates in the SC. They thwarted the will of the people. Erap did not finish his  6 years term provided for in the constitution because his power was grabbed by people who are greedy for power.

Since he did not finish his 6 years term therefore he is still eligible to run.

WN 

And Glacier replied;

hala, sila na hinoon diay ang nahimong laug sa gahum. tsk tsk tsk.

My reply;

I think Glacier did not get the point here. Why did I say that the people I mentioned above are power hungry? The answer is simple. It is because Erap was duly elected by the people and the people I mentioned as "greedy for power" are not following the rule of law. Erap was elected for a 6 year term and if you disrupt his term via the rule of the mob or an uprising that is purely illegal. One of the people who ousted Erap is the chief justice of the Supreme Court Hilario Davide Jr. and he is well versed of the law and yet he swore in GMA as president when he knows that Erap is the duly elected president of the people. If this is not greed for power then what?     

WN

Mike,

Ayaw kagool Doy... nia gihapon mi.

WN

Quote from: Way Nada on December 05, 2009, 05:14:07 AM
Ms da binsi wrote:

"What scared you of socialism WN? why do you think we in america cant go through socialism like the health care? look how many people who dont have health care in America? compared to the Scandinavian? there are lots of poor americans who cant even afford  to take good care of their children. Look at the Scans and Nords and europeans and canadians, their government help them raised thier toddlers, eg they can hire baby sitters mao nangabut na silang ginger sa Norway ug asa pa na. Are we americans can afford baby sitters? NOPE. Ang gipanghadlok lang sa mga nagsabwag anang socialism nga preha ta sa cuba, tawon hadlok sad ang mga wa kabalo.

Anyway example ra ni sa socialism ako gi mention. I am not against how the other countries ran their government i still admired on how they took good care of their people. Pwera lang ang NKorea ug Cuba kay we can never be like them."

Tubag:

Kining imong idea maayo na pagka-tubag ni Raquelproud ngano dili gyud mogaya ang gobiernong socialismo ug ang mga Amerkano angay gyung mahadlok. Naa la'y gamay nakong idugang nga panghunahuna. Gatoo mang ka nga ang socialized HC mogaya sa America... unsaon man? Tan-awa na karon nganong high umemployment sa sud sa 26 anyos ang America. Tungod kadtong mga gagmay nga negosyante nga maoy naghimo ug mga trabaho sa tawo nagsira na sa ilang negosyo tungod sa kahadlok ining gitawag ug; "regime of high taxation". Mao ni giingon ni Raquelproud sa iyang thread. Kung ikompara nimo ang Amerika sa Sweden o sa Norway ba dili mahimo ang comparison pagka karon. Ngano man? Tungod kay sa Sweden pananglitan kumpleto nga ang gobierno nag-control sa tanang manufacturing plant ug mga nagosyo. 50% ang bayad sa buwis sa kada tawo. Pananglitan kana sila si Bjorn Borg ug Stefan Edberg ug kanang bag-ong tenista sa Sweden karon nga si Soderling wa maga puyo sa Sweden sila tungod nahadlok sila sa rehimen sa "high taxation". Kung kining sistemaha maoy gamiton sa Amerika dili pud kaha mahadlok ang mga negosyante? Aw... ang sampol ana mao nang unemployment nga 10.2% tungod kay wa manglihok ang mga negosyante.

WN

Dugtong:

Mobalik ta sa storya sa global warming. Matud pa ni Raquelproud; ang mga "develop countries" naay gitawag ug "carbon footprints". Unsay may boot pasabot ini? Kini nagpasabot nga ang mga nasud sama sa Amerika, Japan, Germany, England, France ug uban pang milambo pagamit sa fossil fuel... they are guilty of polluting the planet. Because of this they have to compensate for their guilt of polluting the planet and pay those underdevelop who cannot cope up with the new technology to help them financially build what they call as green energy power plants like solar and the wind turbine.

Kini ug atong hunahunaon ug maayo mando ni ug usa ka diktador nga ang tanang gobierno sa tibook kalibutan mosunod. Kining mga global warming advocates gaplano diay ni sila ug world Socialism nga para nila kung ang nasud molampus sa iyang ekonomiya naay iyang obligasyon nga motampo sa kalisdanan sa ubang nasud. Ang IMF-WB ila nang gi itsa pwera kay mao man nay paagi sa kapitalismo. Ang gusto nila nga kadtong galisud libre ang ilang pamahaw, paniudto ug panihapon. Free meals ug sa iningles pa! Hehehe..... 

Ang competition sa free market economy gusto ining mga komunista/socialista nga gamaskara ug global warming activists nga wad-on ang sistema sa pamumuhunan [kapitalista] sa tibook  kalibutan.

Ngano man nga kining panghunahuna sa komunista/socialista dili man mawa ining atong katilingban? Tungod kay naay mga professor sa eskwela nga gasigi ug tudlo ining mga panghunahunaa. Ang mga bata mao gyud nay kusog mogakos ug mga ideya nga pangpulitika nga bag-o pa nilang nahibaw-an dugangan pa sa mga ACORN nga gasigi ug organize sa mga tawo nga hibaw-an sa pulitika kundi gabaligya lang sa ilang boto. Kining mga bata tawgon ni sila ug mga "romantics". Mao nga si Obama napili tungod adtong boto sa mga bata nga mi-uyon sa iyang "change". Di kamay na ni karon! Mao nay nahitabo sa Amerika nga wa na pud motoo ni Obama ang mga kapitalista.

WN   

Ms da binsi wrote:

"What scared you of socialism WN? why do you think we in america cant go through socialism like the health care? look how many people who dont have health care in America? compared to the Scandinavian? there are lots of poor americans who cant even afford  to take good care of their children. Look at the Scans and Nords and europeans and canadians, their government help them raised thier toddlers, eg they can hire baby sitters mao nangabut na silang ginger sa Norway ug asa pa na. Are we americans can afford baby sitters? NOPE. Ang gipanghadlok lang sa mga nagsabwag anang socialism nga preha ta sa cuba, tawon hadlok sad ang mga wa kabalo.

Anyway example ra ni sa socialism ako gi mention. I am not against how the other countries ran their government i still admired on how they took good care of their people. Pwera lang ang NKorea ug Cuba kay we can never be like them."

Tubag:

Kining imong idea maayo na pagka-tubag ni Raquelproud ngano dili gyud mogaya ang gobiernong socialismo ug ang mga Amerkano angay gyung mahadlok. Naa la'y gamay nakong idugang nga panghunahuna. Gatoo mang ka nga ang socialized HC mogaya sa America... unsaon man? Tan-awa na karon nganong high umemployment sa sud sa 26 anyos ang America. Tungod kadtong mga gagmay nga negosyante nga maoy naghimo ug mga trabaho sa tawo nagsira na sa ilang negosyo tungod sa kahadlok ining gitawag ug; "regime of high taxation". Mao ni giingon ni Raquelproud sa iyang thread. Kung ikompara nimo ang Amerika sa Sweden o sa Norway ba dili mahimo ang comparison pagka karon. Ngano man? Tungod kay sa Sweden pananglitan kumpleto nga ang gobierno nag-control sa tanang manufacturing plant ug mga nagosyo. 50% ang bayad sa buwis sa kada tawo. Pananglitan kana sila si Bjorn Borg ug Stefan Edberg ug kanang bag-ong tenista sa Sweden karon nga si Soderling wa maga puyo sa Sweden sila tungod nahadlok sila sa rehimen sa "high taxation". Kung kining sistemaha maoy gamiton sa Amerika dili pud kaha mahadlok ang mga negosyante? Aw... ang sampol ana mao nang unemployment nga 10.2% tungod kay wa manglihok ang mga negosyante.

WN

Quote from: ms da binsi on December 04, 2009, 01:36:41 PM
sumala pa ni Chicogon, mamati laman ta sa mga umaabut. Kay ug buot kwentahon ug moingon sad ta nga bugos ning tanan nga mga hungihong, mahimutang nga na ilad ang scandinavian, nordic ug european aning ilang pag pangandam?

mao bitaw nga mas maayo nga mag andam nalang ta kay sa magpaka buta bungol, kay basi naay maunlod sa kaulahian.

Kining mga hu-hungihong bahin ining global warming that it is caused by man... wa ma-ilad ang mga Scandinavian countries sama sa Norway, Sweden ug Denmark kundi usa sila sa mga mangingilad. Ngano man? Tungod kay kini sila ang usa sa mga financiers ining global warming syndicate. Ang naghatag ug gi-gasto ining mga global warming scientists gikan sa mga leftist governments all over the world. Gilaliman ka nga makapalit ug barko nga mga icebreakers ning nag-research ini ug barko nga mogukod sa mga Japanese whalers sa Antarctica. Dis-a man ni sila ug kuarta kung mga actibista lang sila?

Kining leftist governments sa tibook kalibutan gusto nilang agawon ang tanang nasud sa pag pasunod sa usa lang ka Socialistang gobierno. Ang ilang numero uno nga kontra mao nang capitalist system sa America. Sa pagdaug ni Obama pagka presidente sa Amerika hingdaug dayon ug Nobel Peace Prize. Unsa may rason nga modaug si Obama? Wa... kundi ang dakong propaganda nga aniay tawo nga pareho lang nila ug prinsipyo sa pang-gobierno.

Mao ni akong gisuwat sa una nga "hidden political agenda" ug gitukib usab ni Raquel Proud unsaon nila pag pasunod sa mga tawo.

WN   

Quote from: chicogon on December 02, 2009, 09:10:08 AM
Wa koy hanaw ani na issue sa global warming - although mag basa2x pod panagsa - ug interesting baya pod. Maau sad points ni WN, pero of course, like most arguments nga akong mabasa one-sided ra pod (or say, an issue of "from whose perspective"). Just because it came from FoxNews motoo napod ta dayon. Pero maayo baya sad na analyses. Pero mao lagi, kay di man ta suheto ani, maminaw na lang ta. My one and only point is: ngano sige man ko kadungog nga unusual na ang high tide aning aformentioned islets ug ubang lugar sa Bohol nga akong nadunggan, pero ngano man lagi kung muadto kog Caingget para mag sawom2x, lajo naman ko kaayog lakwan usa pa makalangoy kay sige lang low tide (hunas). I'm talking about the last 10 years or so?!! Wa kaha motuyok ang kalibutan kay morag nausab naman ang gravity hehehe...

Ang bahalina kaha, wa ba mohunas o mohubas? Corella ba gehapon maayo o basin nibalhin napod ang agas sa laing parte sa Bohol? 

Chicogon,

Dihay akong write-up nga tubag para ni Ric V. Obedencio sa iyang balita nga ang duha ka gagmay'ng isla nga gitawag ug Guindakpan ug Kalituban sa Bohol nasapo na kuno sa tubig dagat... nga ang boot pasabot nija nga tungod sa "global warming the sea level is rising". Ako jud sijang gitubag kay ako gatoo nga dili jud tinood nga ang ijang balita mahitungod sa global warming. Gipasangil pa sa mga sumusunod sa global warming nga ang kinaingnan kuno nganong hing-init ang atong kalibutan tungod kuno sa mga kalihokan sa tawo pananglit ang pagsunog ug uling, gas ug petrolyo.

Kining pagmantala ni Ric V. Obedencio mao ni gitawag ug "alarmist reporting" nga ug sa ato pa; pangpakurat ug paghadlok sa tawo labi na jud tong gapuyo sa isla Guindakpan ug Kalituban. Ug akoy taga isla nga ginganlan nija di ba ko magool? Asa man nako papuy-a ang akong mga anak ugma damlag ug maunlod na ang gamay nakong kalibutan? Kini si Ric V. Obedencio nag-abuso sa pagka way hanaw sa mga taga isla bahin sa isyu sa global warming.

Sa laing bahin moingon ka tingali nga gada ko ug balita dinhi nga gikan sa Foxnews ug matud mo nga; "tungod ba lang diay kay gikan sa Foxnews motoo na lang ta." Ang boot nakong pasabot nganong motoo ta kung gikan sa Foxnews tungod kay ang balita kontra niining global warming dili nimo masagap gikan sa mainstream media tungod pud kay kini sila nahi-apil sa kampo sa mga global warming advocates.

Dugang nga pangutana... Dis-a man gikan ang balita sa Foxnews bahin sa iskandalo sa global warming? Ang tubag nga gikan sa mga scientists sa Climatic Research Unit nga nahimutang diha sa University of East Anglia sa London diin ang mga email ngadto sa usa ka scientist sa Penn State University sa US nga naga-ingon nga maayo pagka "tikas" nila ang data sa global warming sukad pa sa tuig 1960. Ang ilang email hingsud sa email address sa usa ka scientist nga kontra sa ilang pagtan-aw sa climate change o global warming. Na-hack ug atong klarohon pagsulti.

Kadtong scientist nga nagpada ug email nga si Phil Jones nag-resign na kuno matud pa ni Grazie7y.

Usa pa... ang mga scientists nga kontra niining isyu nga ang tawo maoy hinungdan sa pag init sa kalibutan kini sila; they are being shut out in the debate about the global warming issue which is why we cannot read their opinions in the mainstream media. Scientists advocating the climate change are afraid to share information with them who are skeptical about the issue because they don't want them to know that they are manipulating the data about climate change or global warming. And also their plan of a world Socialism as stipulated by RaquelProud earlier will be divulge prematurely.

WN

Quote from: benelynne on December 01, 2009, 05:05:25 PM
Data about temperature are in the public domain and are hard to classify because they are used for various purposes--from meteorologists to agriculturists.

Where I live, weather reports flash the range of temperature movement during the day and compare them with some kind of historical average. There really is a trend of temperature rising, but I am not sure if this is a significantly long-term trend. However, even for a layman like me, it is hard to contend that there is no trend towards warming since I have not experienced any major snowfall in the last fifteen years in areas where snow used to be at least knee-deep.

benelynne,

I think you did not get my message. The issue of global warming advocating that it is caused by human activities through the burning of fossil fuel like gas, coal and petroleum is not true. It is a hoax and the information that the earth is warming is manipulated by the British and American global warming scientists. The scandal was revealed when their communication emails were hacked and divulged by Foxnews.

WN

This news item titled; "Bohol island-villages  on edge of extinction?"
written by Ric V. Obedencio are all hogwash. I would rather call Ric
V. Obedencio an alarmist of the "gloom and doom" type than that of a
newsman who is concern with the welfare of the people and the
environment. The news that some of the islets of Bohol is "on the edge
of extinction" is alarmist reporting that even Ric V. Obedencio
himself does not believe in his assertion that the islets are on the
edge of extinction. Even if the cause is natural he did not give any
explanation but asserted more that this phenomenon is a man-made
disaster which he did not explain either... how come it be a man-made
disaster? Instead of alerting the attention of our local academics or
scientists [if there is any] what he did was to tell Boholano
politician like Vice-Gov. Julius Herrera about the rising of the sea
level. What he [Herrera] has to do with the rising sea level? Pugngan
nija ang baha? Hehehe.....


Accordingly some "2,000 persons keenly observed the rise of sea level
during high tide has been [called] unusual" but this can be explained
if only Ric V. Obedencio went to a person who has a keen knowledge of
the geology of the land. Since he went to a politician then the
explanation cannot be considered scientific but reasoning tainted with
politics. Newsmen in our province is a strange breed. If not always...
they mostly rely on politician's opinion in solving problems.


In my opinion the rising sea level on this islets can be explained by
sheer common sense even without the aid of climate science. These news
about islands and islets being breached by sea level is not new to me.
In the world today there are so many climate reporters paid to report about
climate change. Most of their news reports are propaganda. But Ric V.
Obedencio in his reports did not mention the exact date when these
islets of Guindakpan and Kalituban of Talibon to have been breached by
sea level but all we have is the information reported on Sunday
November 29, 2009. The other islet of Mantatao in Calape was reported
not so long ago as an islet submerged by sea water. If the islet of Mantatao
literally submerged as reported that means the islet itself sink to below sea
level. If Guindakpan and Kalituban Islets are breached by sea level it means
that the cause is the movement of the rising of the sea. Unlike Mantatao the
islets are not sinking but it is still overlapped by the sea level. If true then this
is where global warming theory plays its role.


According to climate change scientists the seas and oceans all over
the world is like a conveyor belt system. Warm water temperature of
the sea flow on top and when it reaches the polar ice caps the cold
temperature will bring the water down and keeps on a continous flow
until the flow of sea water reaches a warm temperature again that will
bring the water up. If this conveyor belt system is being disrupted by
the melting of the polar ice caps the systematic flow will come to a
halt. They theorized that this disruption will cause drought in some
places and flood in another as well as typhoons, hurricanes or
earthquakes and the rising of the sea level.


This melting of the polar ice caps is caused also [according to global
warming theoriticians] by the erosion of the ozone layer that serves
as a cover or gives a greenhouse effect on the planet earth. These
scientists blamed the erosion of the ozone layer to man's activities
by the burning of fossil fuels such as gas, coal and petroleum. Today
these theories of melting ice caps, rising sea level and splitting of
the ozone layer are backed up by leftist governments of the world and
in the United Nations. Honest climate change scientists who are
skeptical of their theories are left behind in the dark and not given
a forum by the leftist mainstream media which is why the news we read
is always favorable to the theory that global warming is a man-made
disaster. And of all governments only the US and a few of its allies
are vocal against the global warming activists in the UN and it was
only during the time of the Republican Party that the US dared to
challenge the theory of global warming.


I suspect the theory about global warming has a hidden political
agenda. This is a diversionary tactic by shifting gear to another
rallying point. Before when they were waving the banner of the hammer
and sickle nobody believed them so by ruse they changed their
political battle cry to a clean environment and global warming.


Let's go back to the fear of Ric V. Obedencio that Guindakpan and
Kalituban Islets are in the brink of extinction. I want him to explain
to his readers why he arrived at this point because this is bad for
the people of these two islets that their world is about to end. He is
sowing fear and the cult of global warming.


According to the theory the rising sea level is caused by the melting
of the two polar ice caps. If so... from what polar ice cap that is
going to breach the sea level of the islets of Guindakpan and
Kalituban... is it the south ice cap or the north ice cap? If the
melting is coming from the north... scientists theorized that the flow
of melting glacier will go down from the arctic Ocean to the Atlantic
Ocean. Therefore it is not possible for the melting ice from the north
to breach the islets of Guindakpan and Kalituban because Bohol is in
the Pacific and the surging melted water is coming from the Atlantic.


So it must be coming from the south ice cap of the Americas that the
surging melted water that will breach the sea level of the islets of
Guindakpan and Kalituban. From the South Ocean at the tip of South
America to the South Pacific and then the melted water will breach the
sea level of Guindakpan and Kalituban. Very strange phenomenon if not
logically flawed** Why not breach first the group of islands and
islets in the South Pacific which are also sandbars with the same
foundation and components as our islets in Bohol? Why is it that the
islets of Guindakpan and Kalituban should suffer to be sacrificed to
the cult of global warming?


Here's the rub** According to the news reported by Ric V. Obedencio
that; "climate change is one of the bone of discussions during the
three day (Nov. 26-28, 2009) Bohol Environment Forum held at Jjs
Seafood Village restaurant in this city courtesy of Bohol Nature
Conservation Society (Bonaconso), Pakisama and Foundation for
Philippine Environment (FPE).


Provincial Environment and Natural Resources Officer Nestor Canda
tackled the impact of climate change on Bohol ’s geophysical formation
and Mr. Nicanor Perlas separately dealt on governance in light of
climate change."


Climate change is a bone of discussions during a three day Bohol
Environmental Forum but where are the cons in the discussion. Why only
the proponents of climate change are mentioned by the reporter? The
three NGO's mentioned as Bohol Nature Conservation Society
(Bonaconso), Pakisama and Foundation for Philippine Environment (FPE)
I believe are all proponents of global warming that it is a man-made
disaster.


My only speculation in this environmental forum at JJ's Seafood
Village is that all the reporters that were present there are after
only the "sinugbang kitong, kinilaw and tinowang o sa isdang bato.

WN

Quote from: ms da binsi on December 01, 2009, 01:18:50 PM
Fox always contradicted what the democrats say. We in Amerika is not surprise about it. They even want the administration to fail!

An American at that!

Ms da binsi,

You are missing the point! Foxnews is the bringer of the news. The people at Foxnews are the only TV news organization in the US today who is reporting news that is not reported by the mainstream media.

When I said in my message that only Foxnews is the only one reporting about the global warming scandal... it is not Foxnews that is the issue but the scandal committed by global warming scientists at CRU in the University of East Anglia in England. There is today emails conversations by global warming scientists revealing the manipulation of the global warming data.

WN

Quote from: benelynne on December 01, 2009, 08:24:33 AM
I have a geologist friend who also argues that the climactic changes we're going through are part of the long-term cycle that happens independent of human action. So should we just take comfort in the thought that we are caught in the midst of a geologic transition?

The argument that the world is not warming, however, runs counter to almost all physical facts. Tell that to those living in the sinking islands of Bohol, the government of Maldives that is now frantic to save its shores, shippers who live in danger of drifting icebergs, those who monitor the meltdown of polar ice, etc. The adverse acts of nature simply remind us human beings to be more responsible in our actions.

If your geologist friend say that this cycle is natural then I agree with him because I believe that the climate cycle cannot be controlled by man even if there is a disruption in the cycle.

In my message posted yesterday I have this belief that global warming scientists are hoaxers
because instead of sharing information to other scientists who might have a different opinion than them they refused instead they resorted to trickery by manipulating data about global warming. The world is not warming but cooling! Hacker leaks thousands of emails showing climate change scientists conspire to hide and blind the people about the truth on the real data on climate change. They are now exposed as a fraud.

WN

Scientists advocating global warming who are unwilling to share their research in climate change to other scientists who might be having a different opinion from their data are now cornered eating their humble pie.

They are now exposed as hoaxers when thousands of their emails were hacked and leaked to
the media not the mainstream but Foxnews. The New York Times published it but other from the mainstream media like CNN, NBC, ABC or MSNBC keep a deafening silence about the climate change scandal. Foxnews reported that emails and documents from the Climate Research Unit at East Anglia University of London were hacked and revealed their anomalous activities. Their hacked emails revealed there is deceit, duplicity and collusion between climate researchers
to maintain the fraud of the manmade global warming theory.

Hacker leaks thousands of emails showing climate change scientists conspire to hide and blind the people about the truth on the real data on climate change. There will be a UN climate change conference in Copenhagen on December 9 and what would they say about the invented
change in the climate? Are these people attending the conference still be comfortable talking about the subject when the theory about climate change or global warming is exposed as a fraud?

Here is an example of one of the thousand of emails hacked and leaked to Foxnews:

From: Phil Jones
To: ray bradley, m...@xxxxx.xxx, mchug...@xxxx.xxx
Subject: Diagram for WMO Statement

Dear Ray, Mike and Malcolm,

Once Tim's got the diagram here we'll send that later today or first thing tomorrow. I've just completed Mike's Nature trick of adding the real temps to each series for the last 20 years (ie from 1981 onwards) and from 1961 for Keith's to hide the decline. Deleted....

Cheers
Phil

This email is from Phil Jones sent to his coleagues in the university stating the "trick of adding to the real temperatures to each series for the last 20 years and for Keith's (maybe one of the fellow researchers) to hide the declining temperature."

Therefore in their reseach the earth's temperature is not warming but declining but they are adding numerical data to the real temperature to each series to hide the truth.

The scandal created by these climate change scientists is ignored by the mainstream or "lame" stream media because climate change or global warming whatever is correct... is an issue that cannot be controlled or reined in to go back from where it started. If we retrace the way on how world governments and the UN in particular were involved... it started simply with the issue of pollution.

During the 1960's Los Angeles is reputed to be the worst polluted city in the world. Environmental activists at that time were concerned only about the air pollution of their cities coming from the exhaust emitted by smoke belching vehicles. And they put the car industry
lobby as the one to blame for the failure of the US government to facilitate the city of Los Angeles an effecient system of transport like the commuter train. The issue about coal-fired power plant was not yet in their political agenda and it was yet way beyond their
expectation.

It was not until a NASA scientist named James Hansen who was researching on the atmosphere of the planet venus that the localize issue of air pollution was wholly politicized and centered the issue on climate change. He is a physicist and an astronomer and he found out that venus is enveloped by three layers of gas theorizing and concluding that these gases caused the hot environment of the planet. This conlusion is also the basis of his theory that the earth's
atmosphere due to exhaust emitted by vehicles and coal-fired power plants caused the earth to warm. He called the effect as anthropogenic which means that global warming is caused by human activities.

Whenever there are floods, hurricanes or earthquakes environmentalists see these as man-made disasters because they theorized this phenomenon as the effect of global warming. Our faith based principle that God is the cause of all natural things to happen is taboo in the mind of a
global warming activist because man has also the power to control the weather through the prevention in the burning of fossil fuel.

In the 1970's when James Hansen popularized his global warming theory many jumped in to take a ride on his bandwagon by creating among themselves political parties like the Green Party in Europe and Australia. NGO's sprouting to promote Hansen's theory like Greenpeace also surprised my inner thoughts how they can acquire ocean going vessels to harrass Japanese whalers in the high seas. There must be some philanthropist businessmen who are bankrolling their political activism. And like the early oil barons at the advent of the car industry Al Gore a politician turned businessman is traveling around the world preaching and capitalizing on the global warming hysteria to promote his business in carbon trading and solar cells. Jeff Immelt
the CEO of NBC and George Soros are also in the business of Solar panels.

They are out to bankrupt the oil and the coal industries and have hidden political agenda which is why the "lame" stream media who sympathizes with these new breed of eco-businessmen are totally ignoring the scandal happening at CRU in the University of East Anglia at London.

WN

Quote from: Lorenzo on October 30, 2009, 01:18:35 PM
lol.

The irony of the situation, my dear WN, is that GMA was placed into power by People Power. And only to be the recipient of the same People's Power Movement during her own tenure as Head of State.

he he he he.

Mao gyud... but in Erap's term as president he let them assembled at Edsa but during GMA's term she gassed all attempts of PP against her. Erap was ousted because the military defied their allegiance to the constitution. Angelo Reyes the chief of staff joined SC justice Hilario Davide jr. at EDSA. The military chief and the SC chief justice turned into political activists. Their acts are part of the biggest political conspiracy to topple a democratically elected president of the Philippines.

WN

Quote from: Lorenzo on October 30, 2009, 01:06:51 PM
So, WN, you are in support of Erap?

Erap is only an incidental person here. I am in support of the law and I am against the grab of power. Before a president only had 4 years sitting as president. They make it longer but it never came to their senses that one week is a long time for a Filipino politician... 6 years pa di mag-people power na lang! Dili na makahuwat ug election. Hehehe....

WN

NGS,

You think Erap was legally ousted? He was not even impeached. If you can recall the event that happened in the senate it was like this; when the pro Erap senators were about to argue the impeachment case in defense of Erap... Joker Arroyo and those anti Erap senators walked out of the proceedings and went to Edsa. There at Edsa they continue their slaughter of Erap. Therefore Erap was not given a voice in his defense in the senate. The media again did not report this in the news.

Joker Arroyo and the anti Erap senators walked out because the pro Erap in the senate were the majority and Joker Arroyo knew their case of impeaching Erap will not win. If they knew  there is no need of people power at EDSA. They can go to the legal proceedings.

WN

Quote from: ngs on October 30, 2009, 11:34:12 AM
The above quote, they will also argue that erap did not voluntarily resigned. We will have constitutional crisis here if that is the case. GMA supporters can pose disguise and do people power to oust her. So, VP Noli will take over. Come Election time, GMA can run again.

The "term six years" refers only to the maximum number of years an elected president can sit. It does not provide, that when a president is ousted, impeached, that he has all the six years to sit. Much more to be re-elected.

NGS,


Erap did not resigned but sent a letter to congress handling over temporarily the office of the president to Gloria M. Arroyo. This was attested by Nene Pimentel as he was the senate president then. But the media did not report this. The mob that grabbed power from Erap made already a constitutional crisis. According to Fr. Joaquin Bernas... making a spin to people power that; it is extra constitutional provision in the law. Tsk... tsk... tsk...

WN

Quote from: ngs on October 30, 2009, 11:19:56 AM
WN, you might want to include also the COMELEC people here in the list. The constitution did not mention implicitly or explicitly whatsoever that an elected president who has not finished his 6 years term is eligible to run again.

The strongest term that will knock on eraps head is the word "re-election". He was elected as president. If he did not finished his term for his stupidity, and he wants to run again, do we not consider it as "re-election"?  This is very simple.
It is not hard to understand this. Yes, I agree with you, they think that they are above the law and they will circumvent the law as much as they can because of greed.

But, the question here is, What can we do about it? When can we emerged from inside the cave? What will make us get to our senses?

The consitution again states that: Soveriegnty resides in the people and all government authority emanates from them.

We, the people are soveriegn. But I think it's not the case.

Quote from: ngs on October 30, 2009, 11:19:56 AM
WN, you might want to include also the COMELEC people here in the list. The constitution did not mention implicitly or explicitly whatsoever that an elected president who has not finished his 6 years term is eligible to run again.

The strongest term that will knock on eraps head is the word "re-election". He was elected as president. If he did not finished his term for his stupidity, and he wants to run again, do we not consider it as "re-election"?  This is very simple.
It is not hard to understand this. Yes, I agree with you, they think that they are above the law and they will circumvent the law as much as they can because of greed.

But, the question here is, What can we do about it? When can we emerged from inside the cave? What will make us get to our senses?

The consitution again states that: Soveriegnty resides in the people and all government authority emanates from them.

We, the people are soveriegn. But I think it's not the case.

NGS,


If you agree with me that they think that they are above the law and they will circumvent the law as much as they can because of greed therefore it is correct to say that GMA's takeover of power is unsconstitutional. When she grabbed power the constitutional clock stopped also.

You asked; "What can we do about it? When can we emerged from inside the cave? What will make us get to our senses?"

My answer is; if you want us to emerge from inside the cave and make us return to our senses... if I am the SC I will let Erap run again for president. In the first place it was the SC's fault in swearing in GMA when in fact by law she was not elected as president. And if you believe the people is sovereign then let's give a chance to Erap if the sovereign people will accept him.

WN   

I said:

"If it will happen the once illegal gambling lords will become legal and we can see them in the open and they will pay their taxes and coruption will be minimized. When jueteng is legalized it is favorable to the poor who directly engaged in the illegal gambling games because their jobs as cabo, runnners, or collectors will be legalized also and they will have hope for their children in the future."

Calle disagrees with my statement above and he says; 

"Please be informed that all kinds of income are subject to income tax. Even if it is illegal, the BIR can still go after them for tax evasion if they didn't declare in their Income tax returns receipts from the illegal numbers game."

Answer:

Not all kinds of income are subject to income tax. How can you tax those illegal gamblers when they are hiding from the BIR because their trade is illegal? This illegal gambling lords are part of the underground economy. That's why I said that; if they become legal or their business will become legal their names will be roostered by the government as  taxpayers.

Calle said;

"Also, the segment of our society greatly affected by this is not the cabos, collectors etc. It is the poor who are regular clients of illegal gambling. Money spent in gambling could have been used for food and education."

Answer:

The poor are greatly affected because they are engaged in an illegal gambling game. I mentioned the cabo, runnners, or collectors as examples in the understanding that if jueteng will be legalized... they will have hope for their children in the future. So if you understand fully my idea I wrote about the state of Nevada that; "the government legalized gambling to help build schools, gave jobs to the poor and improved its economy. When this was done the Mafia which often do its job away from government authority came out of the open and agreed to open legal gambling dens in Las Vegas and compensated their workers reasonably and within the bounds stipulated by law."

Calle said;   

"I was in pampanga a few years back and i was able to witness the moral decay of the province. school children their (elementary at that) are already engaged in illegal gambling. from posing as collectors, ushers (mao ni spelling?) or just as plain bettors."

Answer:

You are talking of illegal gambling... that is why I am arguing for its legalization.

WN

Quote from: ngs on October 29, 2009, 04:40:53 PM
what is your reaction about this constitutional provision in relation to erap running for president again.

Quote from: ngs on October 29, 2009, 04:40:53 PM
what is your reaction about this constitutional provision in relation to erap running for president again.

NGS,

Those who are lovers of the constitution will treat this provision as ideal for the Filipino people. But this constitutional provision was not respected by those who believed that they are above the law. I'll name a few of these people. They are Gloria Arroyo, the late Jaime Cardinal Sin, the late Cory Aquino, Fr. Joaquin Bernas, the media, the academe, Hilario Davide Jr. and his associates in the SC. They thwarted the will of the people. Erap did not finish his  6 yearsterm provided for in the constitution because his power was grabbed by people who are greedy for power.

Since he did not finish his 6 years term therefore he is still eligible to run.

WN 

Glace,

It is not only Erap who said these words that "legalizing jueteng helps to address poverty in our country". It was spoken also by Ex-pres. Fidel Ramos. But Ramos's mistake was he did not legalize jueteng instead gave Manuel Morato of PCSO a free hand to introduce another number game called "lotto" to combat jueteng believing that the poor will welcome this new number game as an alternative to jueteng and those gambling lords will just fade away. Ramos was wrong! Morato's lotto did not reach to the expectation of the poor. The poor are still there patronizing jueteng... and the gambling lords? They are bolder than ever in their operation of the illegal games. Today it's not only town mayors and police chiefs who are recepients of grease money from gambling lords but barangay leaders are already included in their list and there are efforts to bribe parish priests to silence them during the Sunday's mass.

Anybody other than Erap or Ramos saying that "legalizing jueteng helps to address the problem of poverty in our country is correct". In my opinion Ramos or Erap are only incidental people and please bear in mind what they mean by their words; "it only helps to address and not the main solution of eradicating poverty in our country". Jueteng taxes alone, [granting jueteng is legal] cannot singlehandedly arrest the problem of poverty but I believe there are other solutions whether it be economic or political.

Let us admit this... gambling is unpreventable and this is the reason why in a not so distant past some countries solved the problem of gambling by legalizing them. Take the state of Nevada for instance... what is this land before? It's a desert... but when the government legalized gambling to help build schools and gave jobs to the poor the state improved its economy. The Mafia came out of the open and made compensation to their workers legal and reasonable. Macau near Hongkong... before it was only a fishing village and most of their people look for good jobs outside especially in the Philippines operating restaurant. In Macau most of their revenues come from the casinos. The church and casino complex are standing side by side and there are no conflict with the two. In Australia there are casinos which have imprimatur from the Catholic heirarchy of Australia that is why the club is called Catholic Club. Once you enter the lobby of this club you can see the pictures of the cardinal and the bishop of Sydney.

If you think that 80% of the Filipinos are occupying the lowest part of the poverty line or pyramid as you say... it is not because of gambling. But because of the poor economy of our country. The poor are being push more to the ground because their vulnerability is being exploited by the illegal gambling lords... but once illegal gambling are eradicated I believe it will help the level playing field of the poor. If it will happen the once illegal gambling lords will become legal and we can see them in the open and they will pay their taxes and coruption will be minimized. When jueteng is legalized it is favorable to the poor who directly engaged in the illegal gambling games because their jobs as cabo, runnners, or collectors will be legalized also and they will have hope for their children in the future.         

Glacier said;

"On the other hand, we all are aware that illegal jueteng would only favor more to the financers and their protectors (police, politicians and the military). aside from that, its evil, both necessary and unnecessary, is just sending more poor people to the bottom of indigence and destitution. i can't argue with that. I trust you know better than i do."

Answer:

This is the reason why I am arguing to legalize jueteng. Just take away Erap from your mind so that you can accept that legalizing jueteng is one way to address the poverty problem. Daghan dinhi sa TB nga gihimong kinaingnan si Erap. Busa tangtanga sa si Erap sa inyong huna-huna. Hehehe....

WN

Quote from: chicogon on October 27, 2009, 11:55:18 AM
Well said WN. It's very helpful. But let me ask you this since you seem to know more (or have read about this claim): you mean the Bohol Provincial Library has an authenticated "actual" document - per message of yours - that dates back to Legazpi's expedition (since you said it was written by a notarial lawyer on that same expedition) and nobody knew about it until Jess Tirol unearthed it himself? That no one ever made a correction on this "issue" until only the recent times? And more importantly, nobody (even the Provincial Librarians since this Public Library was first established) reported about that "rare" document that existed? Wow! Incredible! I hope naka-laminate na ni ron like the Constitution.

To supplement this claim, do you know of any research made on this particular story like in the archives of Spain or Portugal - kung taga asa man tos Legazpi, as many historical writers would normally do before they write books on history, like Fr. Jose Maria Luenggo of Tubigon did when he wrote his book "Christianity in Bohol" (not so positive with the title anymore), where his written materials had brought him to far-flung places like Spain and Mexico so to confirm what he was trying to write? Such and such are my questions... maybe you can shed light on this, WN.

I read some of Jess' column, too, and many others (sa Bohol Chronicle)... but newspapers are newspapers. They're not official declarations!

I agree with you questioning the veracity of the document. I already posted a message here in TB questioning also that document which was written according to Jes Tirol 322 years since the landing of Legaspi in Bohol and Cebu. It was not the Bohol Provincial Library who authenticated the document but the Philippine Historical Commission.

If we know in our history that there was a Blood Compact between Legaspi and Sikatuna the document discovered by Jes Tirol is the nearest to the truth. If in the near future a document that is more credible than the findings of Jes Tirol is discovered then Jes Tirol's document can be debunked as a lie. But as of now the findings of Jes Tirol is nearer to the truth.

Below is my write up questioning also the veracity of the Blood Compact in Loay. My write up is based on the column of Jes Tirol that the Blood Compact happened inside the vessel San Pedro docked at that time in Hinawanan, Loay.

The Blood Compact:

Legaspi and Datu Sikatuna met not with fanfare and celebration as true blood brothers in front of the town’s people but in a secret meeting inside the galleon San Pedro. Sikatuna having a pact with Legaspi inside the ship to me is suspicious. In my view there was no blood compact at all but Sikatuna agreed an alliance with Legaspi to put down Rajah Tupas. A blood compact is a solemn rite to be celebrated among his people. It’s an old Asian culture of promoting amity, fraternity and friendship. One month or more after the meeting Legazpi took possession of the island of Bohol in the name of the King of Spain and the Boholano chieftain Datu Sikatuna allied with Legaspi in combat, conquered the forces of Rajah Tupas. In addition historian Jes Tirol himself said something like this; “Legaspi did not forge a treaty of friendship [quote also from a town mayor in New Spain] but made a tactical alliance with Sikatuna.” This is an admission that Spain was not interested in friendship but they were after a tactical alliance with Sikatuna to topple Rajah Tupas. Datu Sikatuna was made into an instrument to betray the Visayan people and handed the Philippines to Spain. The presence of extant manuscript is true but it does not necessarily mean that there was a blood compact. The written records were only a spin to cover up Sikatuna’s betrayal against the Visayan people. And this manuscript was never published until 1886-87. This is 322 years after the event happened inside the ship San Pedro.

WN

I don't believe Erap is still interested to run as president. He is already an old man but if politics is his forte in this world... he is still eligible to run because he is a bonafide Filipino citizen. But there is a Salonga Law that says; "a person convicted of a crime of Plunder in the amount of P50 thousand pesos or more cannot be eligible to run for a public office." Therefore Erap within the context of this law cannot run for president.

But here is the catch!

Erap was convicted by the Sandiganbayan but was hurriedly pardoned by GMA. Why the haste in the pardon? Why did they not wait for Erap's lawyer to argue in the SC the decision of the Sandiganbayan? My hunch is that Erap's case is unique in the Philippines. He was convicted of a concoction of false accusations that if the SC will decide on his case it would give another blow to the reputation of the court. The first black mark the SC received was when SC Justice Hilario Davide Jr. sworn in GMA as president when in fact there was already a sitting president elected by the people. Hilario Davide Jr. put the court in disrepute as an activist Supreme Court.

Erap must be a monkey on the back of the SC because if Erap runs for president... somebody I believe will go to the SC and ask the court for Erap's disqualification because of his conviction of plunder. This will become a dilemma of the court. If the court will say that Erap is not eligible to run because of his conviction by the Sandiganbayan then this time the SC should decide if the conviction of Erap is reasonable.

Erap's petition of his conviction by the Sandiganbayan to the Supreme Court was cut abruptly by the quick pardon of GMA.

WN

   

Quote from: nat-cast on October 26, 2009, 10:49:31 PM
legalizing jueteng wont address the poverty problem in our country. there lots of ways in solving the poverty problem of our country and legalizing jueteng is not one of them

Nat-Cast,

Why do you say that? Please explain.

WN

Quote from: chicogon on October 26, 2009, 10:38:19 PM
Asa maning dokumento nga ilang na diskubrihan? Reliable? Karaan gajod? Kay di pa raba uso written tradition sa una. Panahon pa ra ba tong Legazpi ug Sikatuna. Verbal tradition is most likely the vehicle how it was transported to our time and generation. And my big question mark is: I don't care how good our historians sometimes are - gawas na lang ug taga National Geographic - but you have to go through a lot of processes (study the age of the documents, the literary style of a particular time, etc) before you can declare something as historically authentic. Dili kay muadto lag Historical Commission kay duna kay nakaplagan nga dokumento and contest (refute) a particular historical fact. Dili ingon ana ka "yano" (simple) pag "unearth" ug mga bagay-bagay; di siguro himasag mga article/real stories from National Geograpic, etc. If any, you have to consult all kinds of experts related to those fields and they will study them and for a looooong time. Ergo, di jud ko motoo nga sa Loay ang tinood nga Sandugo (maski ila pa ning ge declare na) until I hear how the process was done and they can show the authenticity of said documents... ila kining e display one way or another sa usa ka museum ba or something.

My fear is that... tungod kay ilado na usahay ang tawo (one is preceeded by one's reputation you know), like Jess Tirol, son of UB Educator... yango lang pod dayon ang taga higher up. Besides, Bol-anons are, too, in most instances, dawat lang pod dayon ug istorya like they do almost every night kung mag storya na bahig tiaw, engkanto, etc. Samot nag gimantala pa sa newspaper, like they used to print Jess Tirol's articles in Bohol Chronicle. Nothing against Jess (he's my best friend's uncle) but nothing tells me he's an expert in "archeology" (the branch of anthropology that studies prehistoric people and their cultures)... except his few blurbs in Bohol Chronicle before and the fact that he teaches at the University. I admit, though, his article made sense... but so do Glacier's and many of you here at TB.

Nangutana ka ug saa nang dukomento... you go to the Bohol Provincial Library. Makita nimo didto kay didto lang si Jes Tirol mag-research kay di man sija archaelogist. This document according to his column in the Bohol Chronicle was written by a notarial lawyer who was also one of the crew of the Legaspi expedition to the Philippines. This document was presented by Jes Tirol to the Philippine Historical Commission and they [PHC] believed him.

Before it was approved there was a deliberation discussing the authenticity of the document in the presence of the representative of PHC. The opposition panel were represented by Atty. Bantugan and Eddie Israel. Only Atty. Bantugan appeared and did not argue.

WN

Quote from: Tubag Bohol Dot Com on October 21, 2009, 12:55:17 PM
By Christine Avendaño
Philippine Daily Inquirer

Of five presidential aspirants who spoke Tuesday on how they intended to address poverty, only Joseph Estrada said “jueteng” should be legalized.

The ousted President said millions of families were benefiting from the illegal numbers game and that he favored legalizing it “until the time we find alternative jobs for our people.”

“I am not tolerating it but I am for the legalization of jueteng,” said Estrada, who was convicted of plunder in 2007 for accepting jueteng kickbacks but was quickly pardoned by President Gloria Macapagal-Arroyo.

At a leaders’ forum at the Asian Institute of Management in Makati City, Estrada, Senators Richard Gordon and Francis Escudero, environment activist Nicolas Perlas and Olongapo Councilor JC de los Reyes discussed their priorities should they win as president in 2010, as well as their views on reproductive health, sex education, and whether they would go after Ms Arroyo for alleged corruption.

I hope I can be understood by my opinion favoring Erap. I am aware defending Erap is not the popular thing to do but I would rather be right than to be popular... so please bear with me and let not your heart be troubled.

Erap's opinion saying that; "jueteng should be legalized to address poverty in our country" is correct. His line of thinking did not waver and still as resolute as he was the president before. Legalizing jueteng is right because jueteng as we look at it today is the exploitation of the poor Filipinos by illegal gambling lords in our country. Gambling lords do not pay taxes to the government and those working for them as collectors are not paid a regular income and no insurance whatsoever. Jueteng is a poor's man gambling game where you can bet 25 cents to 5 pesos and the collector will come directly to every house in the barangay. If you compare that to the lotto of Morato with a minimum bet of 10 pesos bettors in the barrio don't have that amount everyday and it needs for them to go to the town center to bet in the electronic machine. A barrio folk don't have even money to pay for a tricyle fare... how much more betting on the lotto.

Christine Avendano of the Inquirer said that; "Erap was convicted of plunder in 2007 for accepting jueteng kickbacks but was quickly pardoned by President Gloria Macapagal- Arroyo." He was convicted but there are still nagging questions left behind like, why was Erap quickly pardoned as reported by Christine Avendano? Why did GMA pardoned Erap and not wait for the SC to decide on his guilt? These questions can be answered in just a few words. It is because his case is not criminal but political... therefore the Sandiganbayan decision is politically motivated.

Let's go back to the issue of jueteng. When Erap was the president he tried to introduce the "Bingo 2 Balls" which was invented by his gambling genius friend Atong Ang. When it was initially tried in the Ilocos Region the franchise to operate was awarded to the cousin of Luis "Chavit" Singson. Chavit wants also to dominate the new gambling game and since the franchise was not awarded to him he got mad and envious. There were still many things that happened pacifying Singson about the awarding of the franchise but to no avail because of Singson's greed of gambling. He framed Erap of receiving jueteng kickbacks from him and politicians jumped on the issue with the media, the late Cardinal Sin, the Manila elite believed in the issue. The next is the grabbing of power through mob rule and the rest is history.       

WN

Quote from: Lorenzo on September 20, 2009, 10:46:33 AM
Obama's Health Care Reform Bill, imho, will not come to pass unless he compromises with the Republican GOP.

I'm a supporter of affordable health care for all US Citizens, but am against a socialized health care system.

Lorenzo,

I think your opinion is not aligned with Obama's idea of health care. You wanted an affordable health care for all Americans but not socialized. Obama wants an affordable health care for all Americans but he wanted the insurance companies to be dismantled. What does he mean? He meant that he wants a socialized health care because if we go back to his election campaign slogan... he wants change. What is this change? He wants the transformation of the American system of a Capitalist democracy to a Socialist system of democracy. Which is why those who wrote originally his Health Care Bill were all communist oriented people.

WN   

Quote from: fdaray on September 23, 2009, 11:07:53 AM
glacier.. dili na ta maglalis ana. Ang nakarecord sa historical commission is true and facts.

Diha gyud sa Bohol ang unang blood compact. duna lay laing pagduha-duha  nga dili diha sa
Bool o Boow, sa Tagbilaran. Basin ug diha sad sa Booy.

fdaray,

Dili nimo masulti nga; "Ang naka-record sa historical commission is true and facts"... ngano man? Tungod kay sa aho nang gisulti dinhi nga ang "history" naay mga gitawag ug conjectural opinion. Pananglit kanang naa sa history nato nga dugay nang na-aprubahan sa Historical Commission pero karon ilang gibakwi nga sayop. Kining sayop sa atong history mao nang Code of Kalantiaw, the migration of Bornean datus to Panay, golden salakot, Republic of Negros and the Bo-ol Blood compact.

Kining Bo-ol Blood Compact maingon nato nga sayop tungod kay dihay dukomento nga na-diskubre si Jes Tirol nga ang Blood Compact didto sa Loay mahitabo. Si Jes Tirol hing-adto sa Historical Commission ug nagsulti didto nga sa Loay ang Blood Compact basi sa iyang nakaplagan nga dukomento. Ug naa na puy laing dukomento nga ma-diskubre nga mas tinood kay sa na-diskubre ni Jes Tirol di mao na pud nay tahuron nga kamatuoran. Di ba?

WN 

Pascual Racuyal according to Adrian Cristobal in his column in the Inquirer said that; "Pascual Racuyal is the perennial candidate for president since the first presidential election in 1935. His platform of government when elected is to envelop Manila with transparent plastic to protect the city from pollution." This opinion sounds eccentric if this was said in 1935 but if you try to analize it today Racuyal is a genius. In the desert of Arizona students from the University of Arizona built an artificial enclosed environment free from pollution making the theory of Racuyal in 1935 a reality.

WN 

Kining ija-ija, aho-aho dihay sinugdanan ini. Wa ni magsugod sa Bohol kundi nagsugod ni sa Mindanao. Niadtong paglingkod ni Quezon sa pagka presidente iyang gi-awhag ang katawhan sa pag-adto sa Mindanao kay matud pa niya; "Mindanao is the land of opportunity and promise." Mao nga daghan nga mga Pilipino milalin ngadto sa Mindanao. Mga Ilokano, Illonggo, Waray, Cebuano ug Bol-anon. Ang kinaiya sa mga Bol-anon mobalik gyud sa Bohol. Imo nang mamatikadan labi na ug panahon sa pista... mao nga kadtong nahibilin sa Mindanao gamay na lang. Adtong panahona pero karon daghan nang wa mobalik sa Bohol.

Sa tanang Pilipino nga nangadto, ug bahin sa sinultihan ang hisgutan, ang Cebuano ra ang masinabot sa mga taga Bohol pero tungod sa atong "accent" kung motipo ta nila kusog mobiay-biay ang mga Sugbuanon sa mga taga Bohol... ug hangtud na karong panahona. Tungod ining biay-biay sa mga Sugboanon ngadto sa mga taga Bohol naglain na lang sila ug grupo. Didto magsugod kadtong sug-sug nga; tan-awa ra gud tong taga-Bohol nag ija ija-aho aho.

WN

Quote from: glacier_71 on October 15, 2009, 11:08:43 AM
WN

honestly, i am compelled to listen all your expert opinions about this term SAWANG, because i don't have any evidence to support mine. hahahaha.  i'm fully aware that simply having these chinese words doesn't diminish the difficulty to reconcile what we know and what we don't know.  i however intend to let you see it, under the impression that it might shed some light  about the word. besides, i don't see it contradicting our shared ideas on this matter.

still i believe in the dynamics of shared opinions which would be the ripe venue to solving some linguistic problems notwithstanding its antiquity and scarcity of evidence. maybe with your mastery of looking through the cracks of our history, we could unveil where SAWANG really comes from.

cheers.

I only conjecturized or surmised that the word "sawang" is Chinese because of the accent but the word "Sawang" would lead us also to a name of a town in Bhutan. This country is in the Himalayas and I believe their culture comes partly from Sanskrit or the Hindu civilization.

WN

Quote from: glacier_71 on October 15, 2009, 08:20:31 AM
kung adunay pagka-initsek ning pulong SAWANG, tingali adunay ikatampo pagpasabot kining mga pulonga nga musunod:

Sa Chinese ang pulong:

Wang = towards, in the direction of; prosperous.

Sa Wang = To Cast a Net

Apan, sa Indonesian pod:

Sawang (iii)= uninhabited jungle; wasteland

kamo konoy analisar ani. hahaha

Glacier,

My idea that the word "sawang" is Chinese because the accent is Chinese. I have no strong evidence that it comes from the Chinese. But there are a lot of evidences that the Chinese migrated to Bohol and occupied the places of Dauis and Panglao. That is only my base of my opinion.

But let me say this; Some of history's oral and written information are conjectural ideas. It does not mean always that they are right. Pieces of evidence are not always strong but based only on coincidence, archaelogical findings and legacies that are left behind. One of the examples is; the ethnic language that we speak today like diwa which comes from Sanskrit meaning diva or spirit, bhay or bay a word refering to a friend which means brother. Salawal and pantalon are Indian words. And all these came from the Indians who migrated to Bohol.

The Chinese brought the words siakoy, bihon, miki, binangkal, minghoy, pungko, apo, ate, bakya, sitsit and I believe sawang also. Dauis comes from the word Tao or Dao a chinese religion which is the worship of their ancestors.

Now if you believe that your explanation of the word "sawang" is not a town center in Chinese
then explain or give this forum a stronger evidence than my explanation of the word sawang. If you think that sawang in chinese is "towards, in the direction of; prosperous; or  to Cast a Net then; where did the word "sawang" that means towncenter came from? Do you have any idea? If you cannot explain then the question is; "Which is nearer to the truth? My interpretation of sawang or yours? Hehehe...

WN   



   

Quote from: Way Nada on October 15, 2009, 07:05:49 AM
Bol,

Kini karong pung "sawang" diversified na ang meaning. Boot pasabot daghan nang makat-onan nato nga anggid-anggid lang ang boot pasabot. Pananglitan kining pung "plaza" is a place in the middle of a market or marketplace. Sa mga Griego ang tawag nila ini mao nang Agora. Agora is a place in the middle of a market where people can congregate to exchange ideas. Mao nga makadungog ta ug termino sa English nga; "marketplace of ideas".

Dugang:

Kanang pung sa Latin nga "forum" marketplace pud gihapon ang pasabot. Mao kining TB usa ni ka "forum" diin kita magsukli-anay ug mga panghuna-huna.

Sa una ako maghuna-huna ug plaza mao nang lugar nga anaay garden pananglit kanang Plaza Rizal sa Tagbilaran nga naa taliwa sa simbahan ug kapitolyo. Pero ang sakto ana mao nang hawan o hawanan. Si Glacier sakto anang iyang giingon nga hawanan. Ang mga katsila ang ilang gihimong plaza pananglit Plaza Miranda hawan nga lugar kana. Mao usab sa Tagbilaran nga kanang Plaza del Principe atubangan sa Capitol Building hawan nga lugar pud na. 

Therefore the words sawang, plaza, agora and forum are all of the same meaning. It's an open space in the middle of a marketplace where people can congregate to meet friends, tell stories and agree and disagree about the philosophy of life.

WN

Quote from: bol-anon nga cebuano on October 15, 2009, 04:40:20 AM
The word Sawang means town plaza or the plaza near the church.

Bol,

Kini karong pung "sawang" diversified na ang meaning. Boot pasabot daghan nang makat-onan nato nga anggid-anggid lang ang boot pasabot. Pananglitan kining pung "plaza" is a place in the middle of a market or marketplace. Sa mga Griego ang tawag nila ini mao nang Agora. Agora is a place in the middle of a market where people can congregate to exchange ideas. Mao nga makadungog ta ug termino sa English nga; "marketplace of ideas".

WN

Quote from: glacier_71 on October 14, 2009, 08:23:22 AM
Unsa man kaha pod ang gigikan sa pulong SAWANG, wn?

Glacier,

Ang tubag nako ini nga kining pulonga dala pud ni sa mga insek nga milalin didto sa Bohol. Ang mga lugar sa Bohol nga naay pagka-insek hilabi na ang Panglao Island mao ni; Tangnan nga ngan ug usa ka probinsiya sa China, Dauis, Dulho, Beking, Sungkulan, Mansasa, Kataingan ug Dimiao.

WN

Quote from: Way Nada on October 14, 2009, 06:18:48 AM
Bambi,

Ang pung poblacion kinatsila man ni. Gikan tingali ni sa pung "pueblo" nga sa ato pa lungsud. Ang poblacion sa atong naandan mao nang "town center" nga naa diha ang simbahan, munisipyo, mercado ug ang mga kalingawan sa lungsud naa pud diha. Ang atong mga katigulangan ang tawag ini sa atong sinultihan mao nang sawang.

Mao nga sa Tagbilaran ang unang sawang mao nang lugar dool sa Meridienne Hotel. [eastside of Tagbilaran] Sa hing-uswag na ang lungsud paingon sa "North side of the Capitol building" gitawag ang bag-ong "development" sa lungsud nga "lujong sawang". 

WN

Dugang:

Ang pung "publico" gikan pud sa pung nga pueblo nga ug sa ato pa "ang katawhan". Diha sa pung nga publico nakuha ang termino nga "re-publika" nga boot pasabot "sa mga katawhan".

WN