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islander

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Re: Were you there during the First Edsa Revolution?
« Reply #80 on: March 15, 2010, 05:44:20 PM »

Thanks for your very helpful reading suggestions.  Let me share with you excerpts/reviews of the books you mentioned.

“Rarely, if ever, in history have so few stolen so much from so many.” 
-excerpt from Raymond Bonner’s Waltzing With A Dictator:  The Marcoses and The Making of American Policy, Vintage, 1988

***
“In a unique position to observe the Marcos regime and their private lives, Romulo (The Manila Hotel, etc.), wife of Philippine foreign minister Carlos P. Romulo, portrays the Marcoses as a powerful and greedy political team, surrounded by sycophants and jetset friends, who exploited a still feudal society with a corrupt patronage system. While Imelda was noted for her lavish and frivolous lifestyle, the author emphasizes that her husband relied on her as a de facto vice-president to whom, as his health failed, he accorded increasing authority, sending her on missions that she combined with mammoth shopping sprees. In this gossipy, meaty expose, studded with frank appraisals of public figures, the author contrasts the glamorous life of the privileged few, which she admittedly enjoyed, with the dire poverty of the Philippine people. Her eyewitness account of the disintegration and toppling of the regime after Benigno Aquino's murder confirms other such reports.”
-excerpt from Editorial Review, Publishers Weekly, on Beth Day Romulo's Inside the Palace: The Rise and Fall of Ferdinand and Imelda Marcos , Putnam, 1987

***

“The Philippine political culture is a personalistic but violent, religious but superstitious, corrupt but tolerant, hierarchical but distributionist, solicitous of form but not of content, legalistic, but careless of equity, media-obsessed and nationalistically vociferous with respect to rights but negligent to obligations.”
-summary of the limitations of Philippine political culture by Lewis E. Gleeck, American observer, diplomat and historian, in his book President Marcos and the Philippine Political Culture, Cellar Book Shop, 1988

Just some more reasons for my distaste of our Martial Law years. ;D







Republic Act 8485 (Animal Welfare Act of 1998, Philippines), as amended and strengthened by House  Bill 6893 of 2013--- violation means a maximum of P250,000 fine with a corresponding three-year jail term and a minimum of P30,000 fine and six months imprisonment

Way Nada

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Re: Were you there during the First Edsa Revolution?
« Reply #81 on: March 17, 2010, 05:53:31 AM »


"To obliterate Marcos’ achievements/contributions from the pages of history is to distort the past and mislead the future. Succeeding administrations have employed laws and the media to destroy or consign Marcos to oblivion notwithstanding the solid achievements he erected for the good of the nation and its people. Good deeds, especially those beneficial to the nation and people, cannot be effaced or expunged. Good triumphs in the end. FM’s place in history is secure. The Marcos laws abound around us. They are embedded in our legal system. They continue to govern and guide the nation and the government functionaries. The vision and foresight of FM in law-making for governance are richly illustrated by the varied and numerous vital legal issuances."

FM’s life and achievement in law:
Myth unchallenged and unsurpassed
By: Atty Manuel "Lolong" Lazaro


Way Nada

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« Reply #82 on: March 17, 2010, 06:46:27 AM »
-excerpt from Raymond Bonner’s Waltzing With A Dictator:  The Marcoses and The Making of American Policy, Vintage, 1988[/i]

***
“In a unique position to observe the Marcos regime and their private lives, Romulo (The Manila Hotel, etc.), wife of Philippine foreign minister Carlos P. Romulo, portrays the Marcoses as a powerful and greedy political team, surrounded by sycophants and jetset friends, who exploited a still feudal society with a corrupt patronage system. While Imelda was noted for her lavish and frivolous lifestyle, the author emphasizes that her husband relied on her as a de facto vice-president to whom, as his health failed, he accorded increasing authority, sending her on missions that she combined with mammoth shopping sprees. In this gossipy, meaty expose, studded with frank appraisals of public figures, the author contrasts the glamorous life of the privileged few, which she admittedly enjoyed, with the dire poverty of the Philippine people. Her eyewitness account of the disintegration and toppling of the regime after Benigno Aquino's murder confirms other such reports.”
-excerpt from Editorial Review, Publishers Weekly, on Beth Day Romulo's Inside the Palace: The Rise and Fall of Ferdinand and Imelda Marcos , Putnam, 1987

***

“The Philippine political culture is a personalistic but violent, religious but superstitious, corrupt but tolerant, hierarchical but distributionist, solicitous of form but not of content, legalistic, but careless of equity, media-obsessed and nationalistically vociferous with respect to rights but negligent to obligations.”
-summary of the limitations of Philippine political culture by Lewis E. Gleeck, American observer, diplomat and historian, in his book President Marcos and the Philippine Political Culture, Cellar Book Shop, 1988

Just some more reasons for my distaste of our Martial Law years. ;D









Islander,

There is still one book left you did not try to quote against Marcos.... the Guinness Book of World Records. Everything said against Marcos is to demonize him. This is borne out of hatred and they want his good deeds to be erased from the pages of history. In the name of democracy and freedom of the press, it is easy to malign and villify Marcos or anybody. But in our system... the last bulwark of democracy is the court of law.

I think all the issues you raised is a rehash of the past and it is part and parcel of the Philippine "real politik". There are people who believe it and there are people who don't... because these issues are all in line with the "perspective" of the author. He has no proof or evidence that Marcos stole billions of dollars.

After all you said quoting from the book or books... is there proof that Marcos plundered the Philippine treasury? Was Marcos convicted of any crime pertaining to graft and corruption? The test case was Marcos and Westinghouse Inc. v the Philippine government.       

Lolong Lazaro is correct and according to him;

"To obliterate Marcos’ achievements/contributions from the pages of history is to distort the past and mislead the future. Succeeding administrations have employed laws and the media to destroy or consign Marcos to oblivion notwithstanding the solid achievements he erected for the good of the nation and its people. Good deeds, especially those beneficial to the nation and people, cannot be effaced or expunged. Good triumphs in the end. FM’s place in history is secure. The Marcos laws abound around us. They are embedded in our legal system. They continue to govern and guide the nation and the government functionaries. The vision and foresight of FM in law-making for governance are richly illustrated by the varied and numerous vital legal issuances."

WN


   

Way Nada

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Re: Were you there during the First Edsa Revolution?
« Reply #83 on: March 17, 2010, 07:22:45 AM »
-excerpt from Editorial Review, Publishers Weekly, on Beth Day Romulo's Inside the Palace: The Rise and Fall of Ferdinand and Imelda Marcos , Putnam, 1987[/i]

Reply:

Beth Romulo's opinion quoted by Raymond Bonner that; "her husband relied on her as a de facto vice-president." Beth Romulo was wronged and Raymond Bonner is biased by omitting the fact that the government of Marcos is parliamentary. The government of Marcos was not provided by law with a vice president because it is not presidential like the US. In case of the failing health of Marcos and he dies while in office, the government is still working headed by Prime Minister Cesar Virata. Virata will call for a national election for president.

WN

bol-anon quo nyur!

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Re: Were you there during the First Edsa Revolution?
« Reply #84 on: March 17, 2010, 07:27:29 AM »
Geeeeeeeeee! Nganong nag sigi paman tawn mog hisgot ni MALCOS oi ::)

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Re: Were you there during the First Edsa Revolution?
« Reply #85 on: March 17, 2010, 08:17:00 AM »

Reply:

Because the stature of Marcos is like any other leaders in the world who are loved and hated.

WN

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« Reply #86 on: March 17, 2010, 08:21:07 AM »

 ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::)

bol-anon quo nyur!

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« Reply #87 on: March 17, 2010, 08:24:46 AM »

 LOVED? Maybe to his LOYALIST ::) ::) ::)hahahaha...

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Re: Were you there during the First Edsa Revolution?
« Reply #88 on: March 17, 2010, 08:34:49 AM »

I agree.

hubag bohol

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Re: Were you there during the First Edsa Revolution?
« Reply #89 on: March 17, 2010, 09:27:16 AM »

He he, Hitler bitaw naa man puy rabid and raving admirers... ;D
...than to speak out and remove all doubt." - Abraham Lincoln

taga tigbao

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Re: Were you there during the First Edsa Revolution?
« Reply #90 on: March 17, 2010, 10:21:46 AM »

Because I think history repeats itself.
SALVE REGINA, MADRE DI MISERICORDIA.
VITA, DOLCEZZA, SPERANZA NOSTRA,
SALVE! SALVE REGINA!

hubag bohol

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« Reply #91 on: March 17, 2010, 11:12:47 AM »

And I think the repetition is happening here... ;D

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« Reply #92 on: March 17, 2010, 03:17:25 PM »

And it will be repeated if we vote someone like Villar. Hahahahahaha. Bitaw. ;D

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« Reply #93 on: March 17, 2010, 03:29:02 PM »

Yes! Junk Villar! Never again money-crazed leaders!

islander

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Re: Were you there during the First Edsa Revolution?
« Reply #94 on: March 17, 2010, 08:38:09 PM »

Thanks for reminding me of the Guinness Book of World Records.  It’s truly advisable to have some bases for one’s decisions, you know.  We can’t just trust our imaginations or wishful hopes. ;) 



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Re: Were you there during the First Edsa Revolution?
« Reply #95 on: March 17, 2010, 08:45:58 PM »

And I think too that yours is a rehash of Marcos admirers.  (p.s. Realpolitik is spelled as one word.)  But sure, that’s why we’re having this discussion because you believe in it while I don’t.  “Perspective” of authors is not based on imagination.  Authors of non-fiction books do real research that’s why these books have references at the end.



islander

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« Reply #96 on: March 17, 2010, 08:55:03 PM »

And here I quote some more:

"When the Marcoses left the Philippines, the country was burdened with $27 billion in external debt and was in a deep economic recession.  In 1988 Marcos was indicted by a US grand jury in New York on federal racketeering charges relating to his years in office.  Before he could stand trial, however, Marcos died in Honolulu in 1989."

 Here’s an analogy.  A person has been murdered.  The post-mortem shows that he has 27 stab wounds.  The murderer was never found.  It’s an unsolved murder case then.  Question:  Does it mean that no murder was committed because no one was charged of murder?

Glad you’re observant of my references and sources.  References validate one’s conclusions and analyses.  You yourself quote Lolong Lazaro (just him?) and conclude he is correct, without cross-referencing or cross-checking the facts.  Just the same, making claims of historical facts only through one’s personal perception is unreliable.
 
Marcos didn’t plunder?  Maybe the Westinghouse case was as it should be--- a technicality; he didn’t steal, he just got commissions (that ballooned the cost of the project as commissions are charged to the total project cost).  That falls under graft for a sitting official who approves the project.  (Please bother to read up on why it went to Westinghouse and what Marcos did.)

      For the benefit of Imee Marcos and for all those who may have inadvertently forgotten, the Bataan power plant is the Philippines' single biggest debt and still accounts for 5 percent of the total indebtedness of the entire country.

     Imee's father was accused of making $80 million in kickbacks on the plant, which cost three times the price of a comparable plant built by the same US company in South Korea at the time, according to the [UK newspaper], The Guardian.

     According to the respected British publication, the Bataan plant is often cited as one of the most blatant examples of a debt that should not be repaid. "First, it was a grand scheme of the late dictator that never benefited the people, and is thus an 'odious debt' under international law. Second, the children of the Philippines are being asked to pay for bribes to Marcos and excess profits of the contractor. Third, the company should take the responsibility for building a nuclear power station just 60 miles from the sprawling capital Manila, near several earthquake fault lines and at the foot of a dormant volcano," it said.

                  -Jojo Robles, Manila Standard Today, August 26, 2005


Look, I quote from newspapers too.  Cross-referencing/cross-checking of facts and figures shouldn’t be limited to books.



islander

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Re: Were you there during the First Edsa Revolution?
« Reply #97 on: March 17, 2010, 09:12:57 PM »

Why do you think there is “hatred and they want his good deeds to be erased from the pages of history…?” when leaders with good deeds go down in history as heroes?  Why, indeed, when a real good national leader will always have the support of the many and could stand up to scrutiny without eliminating political enemies? 

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« Reply #98 on: March 17, 2010, 09:17:46 PM »

Point 1:  That’s why it’s “de facto vice-president” because the position does not exist on paper.  In function and decision-making, of course, it was Imelda.

Point 2:  And Lazaro is not biased by omitting the illegitimacy of Marcos’s continuing hold of power?  (As the Marcos’s lawyer, I wonder how much they’ve paid him.)

Point 3:  Yes (taking your supposition), again just for show, Virata would have called for a national election for president if People Power didn’t happen and Marcos’s plan pushed through.  You can be sure who will win.  Heard of the document Marcos had prepared all the way back in 1975 stipulating that Imelda succeeds him as president?  One of the documents the Marcoses left behind at the Palace when they fled in 1986 was an appointment for Imelda to succeed him.



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Re: Were you there during the First Edsa Revolution?
« Reply #99 on: July 01, 2010, 12:54:29 AM »
This is directed towards Way Nada:

(I have several questions, pardon my interest in the subject)


1. What were the military plans that Marcos had regarding the issue of Sabah?

Reply:

There is no question that North Borneo [sabah] is a Philippine territory. The British annexed the territory to the Federation of Malaya after they were granted independence by the British. The former president Diosdado Macapagal sent then vice president Emmanuel Pelaez to Britain to claim North Borneo for the Philippines without success.

Malaysia in respond to the claim of the territory conducted a referendum asking the people as; "what country do they want to belong... Philippines or Malaysia? The Borneans voted for Malaysia."

When Marcos came to power our military possessed the best fighting men in all of South East Asia. Since Malaysia refused to hand-over the territory to the Philippines Marcos deviced a plan to bring back North Borneo to the Philippines. The military through the approval of Marcos recruited young Tausog Muslims to be trained as "commando fighters" to infiltrate North Borneo and agitate Filipinos living in North Borneo to start an insurgency war against the government of Malaysia.

This happened in the early part of the second term of Marcos. This plan of Marcos was not without a spy in congress. His name is Ninoy Aquino. In a privilege speech he dropped the bomb that the military massacred muslim recruits and one survivor swam from Corregidor and emerged out from the water along Roxas Boulevard. The name of the survivor is Araulo. This person who according to Ninoy emerged out from the sea along Roxas Boulevard... is a fictitious person supplied by a dossier to Ninoy. The press mentioned Araulo but nobody saw this person except in Ninoy's privilege speech. This person and the issue of the massacre were good material to lambast Marcos who was his political enemy. After everything is told and done the massacre that took place in Corregidor according to Ninoy... is a big lie. There was no massacre in Corregidor.

The Corregidor issue angered Nur Misuari who was then a professor at the University of the Philippines. He went back to Sulo and formed the MNLF. I can say that because of his privilege speech Ninoy Aquino was a big factor in the Moro insurgency under Misuari. The next worse thing that happened to the MNLF when Martial Law was declared was that many of them were driven out of Sulo to Sabah. This is why Ninoy in his speaking engagement abroad during his self-exile because of his own making he always tell his listeners that; "there are more than 200 thousands Muslim exiles in Kota Kinabalu, Sabah." He blamed Marcos for the plight of the Muslim exiles but to the person who understands the issue he is to be blamed.   

This issue brought up by Ninoy was a big blow to the government of Marcos that it became too embarrassing for the military to continue with their "commando" training. This scandal reached the British government that commonwealth allies like Australia and New Zealand sent a flotilla of warships into the sea fronting Palawan. To counter the planned sabotage by the Philippines, the gurkha fighters of the British Army was sent into North Borneo... trained the Malaysian Army in counter insurgency and jungle warfare. The last Gurkha that left Sabah [North Borneo] was in 1986 when Marcos military was in disarray and lost already the vigor to fight.

The irony here is that Marcos who dared to fight for our country's territory is a villain and Ninoy who betrayed the aim of the Filipinos to bring North Borneo is a hero.

WN

[/quote]

Thank You for this answer, Sir.






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