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Author Topic: The Situation in Gaza (Pictures)  (Read 7138 times)

Lorenzo

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The Situation in Gaza (Pictures)
« on: January 18, 2009, 01:14:14 AM »
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Lorenzo

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Re: The Situation in Gaza (Pictures)
« Reply #1 on: January 18, 2009, 01:18:11 AM »
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Brownman

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Re: The Situation in Gaza (Pictures)
« Reply #2 on: January 18, 2009, 02:34:48 AM »
The holy land as written killed hundreds of helpless civilian and mostly were children in Gaza, Israeli forces showed that they have the best armament in the world by pounding their enemy, the Hamas as their target can't be located instead helpless children were hit, how can they justify the war to Gaza when most of the cassualties were the helpless populace.

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hofelina

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Re: The Situation in Gaza (Pictures)
« Reply #3 on: January 18, 2009, 03:00:10 AM »
read more from the news and read about the past history , so you will find the answer yourself.
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balong

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Re: The Situation in Gaza (Pictures)
« Reply #4 on: January 18, 2009, 04:09:13 AM »
The holy land as written killed hundreds of helpless civilian and mostly were children in Gaza, Israeli forces showed that they have the best armament in the world by pounding their enemy, the Hamas as their target can't be located instead helpless children were hit, how can they justify the war to Gaza when most of the cassualties were the helpless populace.
boto ko sa gi buhat sa israelis. ang naka daut gud karon sa kalibots kay 1 sided. molaban kanunay sa mga terorista. we dont condemn what hamas is doing to israel. gihatag na gani sa israel ang gaza sa palestinians aron ma linaw, gi sigihan na man  hinoon sa hamas ug rocket attacks ang israel. unja ug mo bawos ang israel, dautan na sila. in war there will always be casualties, mostly innocent civilians. pero gi undang na sa israel ang hostilities. para di mapa hiya si obama inig inogorasyon.

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hofelina

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Re: The Situation in Gaza (Pictures)
« Reply #5 on: January 18, 2009, 04:36:59 AM »
Brownman kining mga Hamas mao ang radical members sa Palestine, ang mga moderate dili ka-ik. Ang libro sa mga Palestines kids, gitudlo nga ang mga Hudyo kontra, kini walay katongod nga maka angkon ug yuta, ang mga bata gi-brainwash na. Ang mga babaye basta reglahon ipaminyo dayon aron manganak ug daghan. Anak intawon ang mga baje kay ang mga lalaki maoy hari sa panimalay.
Adunay tunnel mao nga ang supply pirmi gikan sa Syrian side. Bisan ang Egypt dili moto-ga ug abli sa ilang boundary kay manglosot ang mga Hamas, dakong gobot. I-apil man sila og bomba sa Israel.
Ang kakosog sa Israel ang panaghi-usa sa mga Hudyo. Kay matod pa sa balaan ng kasolatan sila ang pinili sa Diyos ug ma-ila ang promised land.
There was a time that they were really a good comrpomise from the peace seeking politicians from Israel. the European Union supported building the Palestine anew. An amount of 5 million Euros was released to build a new and modern airport, dis-a man ni  padolong ang kwarta? Tua sa pamilya ni Arafat ug sa iyang mga barkada. Ilang mga pamilya ug mga anak nangiskwela sa Paris! Dagko ug mga poloy-anan, apan ang mga normal nga Palestines one day one eat. The money which was given to them are taxes from the European members.
There are no journalists allowed to report about the war. We are getting reports from the Israeli Military press. Who would check if what they are telling is true? At the other side, Hamas are releasing pictures of dead children, bombed schools and houses but no Hamas or Palestines with their high weaponry, kay ma-bisto nga adunay naga supply nila. So its not wise to believe what you see in the news.
Sad to say this is an endless enmity.

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hofelina

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Re: The Situation in Gaza (Pictures)
« Reply #6 on: January 18, 2009, 04:51:05 AM »


The excavation of smuggling tunnels in the Rafah area began in 1982, subsequent to the division of the city between Egypt and the Gaza Strip. Since then, the tunnels have been used to smuggle foreign currency, weapons, clothes, cigarettes, narcotics, alcohol, auto parts, electronic items, and prostitutes from Egyptian Rafah to the Palestinian areas of the Gaza Strip.

Due to the exorbitant prices charged for the transport of illicit goods, the smuggling industry often constitutes a primary source of income for entire families in the area. As such, tunnel entrances are frequently dug under the houses of Rafah residents.

The average smuggling tunnel is approximately 500 meters in length, and dozens of meters deep. Smuggling tunnels may be equipped with wood-paneling, electrical infrastructure, communications gear, and rudimentary elevators.

www.weaponrysurvey.com



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hofelina

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Re: The Situation in Gaza (Pictures)
« Reply #7 on: January 18, 2009, 04:52:40 AM »


"These tunnels are not just foxholes," said Maj. Ron Edelheit, an Israeli Army spokesman. "They are very complicated structures. They're long. They have electricity. They have trails and tracks going through them."

Stretching as far as three quarters of a mile, the underground interstate is big enough for a barnyard of livestock to be smuggled through.

That's not what bothers Israel.

"Food? Who cares; but when we talk about bombs and rockets and TNT and C4 and you name it, that terrorizes the Israeli population that surrounds it, this is not something the state of Israel can live by," Edelheit said.

To win the war, Israel says it needs to stop the smuggling of arms and explosives.

Military sources believe aerial bombardment so far has destroyed about 200 tunnels. But 100 more may still be in use.


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hofelina

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Re: The Situation in Gaza (Pictures)
« Reply #8 on: January 18, 2009, 04:54:08 AM »


Since September 2000, the intricate network of smuggling tunnels under the Philadelphi Route has functioned as an import conduit for a significant amount of diverse weapons utilized by Palestinian terrorist groups, including:
RPG rockets and launchers
Explosives
Rifles (primarily AK-47 Kalashnikovs)
Cartridges, bullets and other ammunition
In August 2005, Israel and Egypt finalized an agreement regarding the deployment of approximately 750 Egyptian border guards along the Philadelphi route. The agreement stipulated that Israel withdraw from the 12 kilometer-long route (which was created to prevent arms smuggling into the Gaza Strip) shortly after the disengagement. The agreement was subsequently ratified by the Knesset and Egyptian troops deployed along Philadelphi in September. 2

However, it should be noted that Egypt continues to turn a blind eye towards Palestinian weapons smuggling.


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balong

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Re: The Situation in Gaza (Pictures)
« Reply #9 on: January 18, 2009, 07:21:55 AM »
hof,

kining mga hudiyo, naa poy pagka high hot. kay lagi they are the chosen people. grabe sad ni sila ug mga attitude. sa brooklyn, new york, where i have an apt. mora ni sila ug si kinsa mag asta. they think they own the place. but in this gaza conflict, i am on their side. i am an objective person. i try to see both sides of a story. bisan asa nimo mabasa, the whole world supports hamas. kay maayo man ug propaganda machine ning mga terorista. moray imong makita nga mga pictures dead civilians nga na tingkagol sa gaza assault. unya ang mga rocket nga sigi ug pang tirada sa hamas ngadto sa israel, wa kay makita nga mga damages published in newspapers. dili fair ang laban

bals

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Re: The Situation in Gaza (Pictures)
« Reply #10 on: January 18, 2009, 07:23:55 AM »
ug ako maoy prime minister sa israel, i will bomb all those terrorists to hell. i will not care what the whole world will say.

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Lorenzo

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Re: The Situation in Gaza (Pictures)
« Reply #11 on: January 18, 2009, 08:00:10 AM »
The liberal news media has always been anti-Israel. Anti-Jewish. These terrorist organizations either they be Hamas, Hezbollah, etc have within their platform and goal; the destruction of the state of Israel.

The Islamic Madras throughout the Middle East pronounce and reiterate the destruction of the Jews and the state of Israel.

Israel is surrounded, and is forced to defend itself in order to secure the existence of its nationhood and for the security of its people.

These Arab nations have threatened Israel before in 3 wars. And in all three wars, Israel has humbled all of those who would threaten her existence.

Israel has the right to defend itself; and these cowards who call themselves freedom fighters--are not brave, but cowards. Who are dubious enough to plot bombs and suicide attacks inside Israel--and when Israel unleashes its retaliation--are themselves cowards who hide behind the innocents.


I support Israel. The Israeli government. And the Jewish people. The Lion of the Tribe of Judah.

God Bless IS'RA-EL



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Lorenzo

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Re: The Situation in Gaza (Pictures)
« Reply #12 on: January 18, 2009, 01:50:15 PM »
The LORD will roar from Zion and thunder from Jerusalem; the earth and the sky will tremble. But the LORD will be a refuge for his people, a stronghold for the people of Israel.

Joel 3:16

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hofelina

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Re: The Situation in Gaza (Pictures)
« Reply #13 on: January 18, 2009, 06:23:13 PM »
Balong kining imong mentality mao kini ang policy sa mga Israeilis.  The soldiers are told before they go to war not to think twice in killing a Palestine, if you don´t do it now, this person might kill the next of your generation, kill or be killed.

ps
Are you based in New York?

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Re: The Situation in Gaza (Pictures)
« Reply #14 on: January 18, 2009, 06:52:58 PM »
nidota basahon ah.. daghan ko nakatunan ani ngathread ai...

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hofelina

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Re: The Situation in Gaza (Pictures)
« Reply #15 on: January 18, 2009, 07:17:50 PM »
I do believe that the Jews are chosen people. Together they are strong. We could learn from them. If we try to help one another thru networking we could achieve and help one another also through the grace of God.

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Re: The Situation in Gaza (Pictures)
« Reply #16 on: January 18, 2009, 07:27:12 PM »
Balong kining imong mentality mao kini ang policy sa mga Israeilis.  The soldiers are told before they go to war not to think twice in killing a Palestine, if you don´t do it now, this person might kill the next of your generation, kill or be killed.

ps
Are you based in New York?

tabok tabok lang ko sa new york ug florida

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hofelina

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Re: The Situation in Gaza (Pictures)
« Reply #17 on: January 18, 2009, 07:27:35 PM »
Benjamin Netanyahu gave an interview and was asked about Israel 's occupation of Arab lands -- his response was "It's our land."  The reporter (CNN or the like) was stunned -- read on.

    Here are overlooked facts in the current Middle East  situation.   These were compiled by a Christian university professor.


    BRIEF FACTS ON THE ISRAELI CONFLICT TODAY....  ( It takes just 1.5 minutes to read!!!! )

    It makes sense and it's not slanted.  Jew and non-Jew -- it doesn't matter.


    1. Nationhood and Jerusalem.  Israel  became a nation in 1312 B.C.E. Two thousand years before the rise of Islam.

    2. Arab refugees in Israel began identifying themselves as part of a Palestinian people in 1967, two decades after the establishment of the modern State of Israel .

    3. Since the Jewish conquest in 1272 B.C.E., the Jews have had dominion over the land for one thousand years with a continuous presence in the land for the past 3,300 years.

    4. The only Arab dominion since the conquest in 635 C.E. Lasted no more than 22 years.

    5. For over 3,300 years, Jerusalem has been the Jewish capital.  Jerusalem has never been the capital of any Arab or Muslim entity.  Even when the Jordanians occupied Jerusalem, they never sought to make it their capital, and Arab leaders did not come to visit.

    6.  Jerusalem is mentioned over 700 times in Tanach, the Jewish Holy Scriptures.   Jerusalem  is not mentioned once in the Koran.

    7. King David founded the city of Jerusalem.  Mohammed never came to Jerusalem.

    8. Jews pray facing Jerusalem.  Muslims pray with their backs toward Jerusalem.

    9. Arab and Jewish Refugees: In 1948 the Arab refugees were encouraged to leave Israel by Arab leaders promising to purge the land of Jews.  Sixty-eight percent left without ever seeing an Israeli soldier.

    10. The Jewish refugees were forced to flee from Arab lands due to Arab brutality, persecution and pogroms.

    11. The number of Arab refugees who left Israel in 1948 is estimated to be around 630,000.  The number of Jewish refugees from Arab lands is estimated to be the same.

    12. Arab refugees were INTENTIONALLY not absorbed or integrated into the Arab lands to which they fled, despite the vast Arab territory. Out of the 100,000,000 refugees since World War II, theirs is the only refugee group in the world that has never been absorbed or integrated into their own peoples' lands.  Jewish refugees were completely absorbed into Israel, a country no larger than the state of New Jersey.

    13. The Arab - Israeli Conflict: The Arabs are represented by eight separate nations, not including the Palestinians. There is only one Jewish nation.  The Arab nations initiated all five wars and lost.   Israel defended itself each time and won.

    14. The P.L.O.'s Charter still calls for the destruction of the State of Israel.  Israel has given the Palestinians most of the West Bank land, autonomy under the Palestinian Authority, and has supplied them.

    15. Under Jordanian rule, Jewish holy sites were desecrated and the Jews were denied access to places of worship.  Under Israeli rule, all Muslim and Christian sites have been preserved and made accessible to people of all faiths.

    16. The U.N. Record on Israel and the Arabs: of the 175 Security Council resolutions passed before 1990, 97 were directed against Israel.

    17. Of the 690 General Assembly resolutions voted on before 1990, 429 were directed against  Israel.

    18. The U.N was silent while 58 Jerusalem Synagogues were destroyed by the Jordanians.

    19. The U.N. Was silent while the Jordanians systematically desecrated the ancient Jewish cemetery on the Mount of Olives.

    20. The U.N. Was silent while the Jordanians enforced an apartheid-like a policy of preventing Jews from visiting the Temple Mount  and the Western Wall.

    What can you do?  What will you tell your grandchildren what you did when there was a turning point in Jewish destiny, an opportunity to make a difference?

   

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Manong JOSE

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Re: The Situation in Gaza (Pictures)
« Reply #18 on: January 18, 2009, 08:48:56 PM »
so informative... I gain better understanding on what's really happening between Gaza and Israel. so bad, the cable TV in our accomodation was reprogrammed but then it was useless for all the news channels were gone... Channel News Asia, BBC and Australia Network... 

I will just keep myself updated by reading your posts here... :D thnx folks!

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Re: The Situation in Gaza (Pictures)
« Reply #19 on: January 18, 2009, 09:19:05 PM »
kining gubot  between sa mga anak ni ishmael ug ni isaac dili ni mahuman hangtud mobalik ang Maghuhukom nga maoy mohuman anang tanang contra sa mga israelinhon.
mientras dili pa SIYA mobalik mag expect jud ta nga naa kanunay gubot dinhang dapita.

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Re: The Situation in Gaza (Pictures)
« Reply #20 on: January 18, 2009, 11:29:55 PM »
Nahatagan naman unta kining Palestines ug higayon, Kining Fatah group ningkamot jud sila pod, apan nisagol man ang mga lawgaw nga Hamas. Kay kining mga Arabo tag-as ug garbo abi sa Hamas adunay pirmi magpaloyo nila. Karon asa naman ang Arab league? They know that Israel possess an elite and disciplined group. Their intelligence are better than that of CIA. The best of the dismantled KGB are the brightest Jews which are now in Israel. Israel are calling its people to come home.

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Lorenzo

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Re: The Situation in Gaza (Pictures)
« Reply #21 on: January 18, 2009, 11:36:09 PM »
My sympathy does not fly for these terrorists and harborers of terrorism. In September 11, 2001, when the Jihadist fundamentalists of Al Qaeda attacked the Word Trade Centers, and the Pentagon; they killed over 3,000+ American innocents.

And I remember watching news channels in CNN, BBC, MSNBC, FOX documenting Muslims in Gaza, West Bank, in Iraq, in Iran, in Syria, in Saudi shouting with joy, dancing and shouting, "Allah Ackbar".

It is something to be proud of to see innocents die? Suicide and Murder?


My side is with IS'RA-EL. The People of God. The flock whom Christ Jesus Our Lord and Saviour was born from. God In The Flesh.

God Bless Zion and Peace to HIS people, IS'RA-EL.

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Re: The Situation in Gaza (Pictures)
« Reply #22 on: January 18, 2009, 11:38:10 PM »
Again, remember this:

The LORD will roar from Zion and thunder from Jerusalem; the earth and the sky will tremble. But the LORD will be a refuge for his people, a stronghold for the people of Israel.

Joel 3:16

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Re: The Situation in Gaza (Pictures)
« Reply #23 on: January 18, 2009, 11:44:29 PM »
I do believe that the Jews are chosen people. Together they are strong. We could learn from them. If we try to help one another thru networking we could achieve and help one another also through the grace of God.

It is written in history. All those who curse Israel, God will also Curse.

The Spaniards tried to suppress the Jewish people in their Reconquista; killed Jews who would not revoke their faith; in an effort to eradicate Jewish presence.
-In the end, Spain's empire has fallen. And The Jew remains a Jew. Faithful and Strong.

The Nazis tried to completely exterminate the Jew. Killing over 12 million in Europe
-In the end, Nazi Germany was pounded to submission by the allies; and the Jew survived his 'almost' extermination. Only to rise in numbers and found IS'RA-EL

When Jordan, Syria, Egypt, Lebanon, etc and all other Arab nations tried to destroy IS'RA-EL in 3 wars, in all 3 wars they were defeated. IS'RA-EL completely annihilated their air forces, and routed their armies.

The Roman Empire destroyed Jerusalem in Tiberius', forcing Jews into Diasporra from their homeland. Romans persecuted Jews.
-In the end, Rome fell in AD 400 and Latin itself remains a dead language.
And in the End, the very same Jew which Rome tried to eradicate and stamp out--came back and was established as a nation again in the mid 20th century. 2000 years after Rome tried to destroy her.


God is with IS'RA-EL.
History has made precedent of that.

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Re: The Situation in Gaza (Pictures)
« Reply #24 on: January 18, 2009, 11:57:49 PM »
kaluoy basad aning mga Jew.. that is why they are always blessed.

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Re: The Situation in Gaza (Pictures)
« Reply #25 on: January 19, 2009, 12:04:15 AM »
:)

They are a shrimp among whales. Surrounded by giants.

But remember that even a small and frail sheppard can take down a mighty giant.

David took down Goliath with a mere stone. As GOD ALMIGHTY was with Him.

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Re: The Situation in Gaza (Pictures)
« Reply #26 on: January 19, 2009, 01:27:44 AM »
UPDATE

Hamas and Hezbollah have announced a request for ceasefire with Israel.

Israel has also imposed a unilateral ceasefire; but stated that it reserves the right to go back inside if Hamas fires rockets into and inside Israel. A spokesperson said, "If no rockets are fired into Israel, then we shall not go inside."

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/7836205.stm

http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3658114,00.html



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Re: The Situation in Gaza (Pictures)
« Reply #27 on: January 19, 2009, 01:28:28 AM »
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Re: The Situation in Gaza (Pictures)
« Reply #28 on: January 19, 2009, 05:04:30 AM »
Nahatagan naman unta kining Palestines ug higayon, Kining Fatah group ningkamot jud sila pod, apan nisagol man ang mga lawgaw nga Hamas. Kay kining mga Arabo tag-as ug garbo abi sa Hamas adunay pirmi magpaloyo nila. Karon asa naman ang Arab league? They know that Israel possess an elite and disciplined group. Their intelligence are better than that of CIA. The best of the dismantled KGB are the brightest Jews which are now in Israel. Israel are calling its people to come home.
MOSSAD, the israeli intelligence agency is the best in the business. better than the CIA of the states and KGB of russia

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Re: The Situation in Gaza (Pictures)
« Reply #29 on: January 19, 2009, 05:09:36 AM »
^ The Israeli Intelligence effectively hunted down every single Nazi responsible for the 'Final Solution' who migrated to South America to evade justice.



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hofelina

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Re: The Situation in Gaza (Pictures)
« Reply #30 on: January 19, 2009, 07:33:11 PM »

The other side of the coin, how the Israelis brutally treats the Palestines!





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Re: The Situation in Gaza (Pictures)
« Reply #31 on: January 19, 2009, 07:34:26 PM »
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Re: The Situation in Gaza (Pictures)
« Reply #32 on: January 19, 2009, 07:35:13 PM »
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hofelina

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Re: The Situation in Gaza (Pictures)
« Reply #33 on: January 19, 2009, 07:36:33 PM »
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Re: The Situation in Gaza (Pictures)
« Reply #34 on: January 19, 2009, 07:39:48 PM »
mas grabe pa gyod ani ang mahitabo inig tribulation period :(

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hofelina

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Re: The Situation in Gaza (Pictures)
« Reply #35 on: January 21, 2009, 03:43:13 PM »
The Israeli Defense Forces on Wednesday morning completed its pullout from Gaza as the last troops left the Strip. Soldiers deployed along the border in order to provide a quick response should the need arise.
IDF soldiers maintain their...

IDF soldiers maintain their equipment at a staging area near the border with the Gaza Strip, Tuesday.
Photo: AP
Slideshow: Pictures of the week

Violence marred the cease-fire in the Gaza Strip on Tuesday as Hamas gunmen fired mortar shells into Israel and opened fire on IDF troops who remained inside the Palestinian territory.

In the afternoon, IAF aircraft bombed a mortar launcher in the Gaza Strip that had been used hours earlier to fire some eight mortar shells into the Negev. It was the first air strike against Gaza since Israel unilaterally implemented a cease-fire there on Sunday.

Earlier in the day, Gaza gunmen fired at IDF patrols in two separate incidents that marked the first violations of the cease-fire Hamas accepted on Sunday after the IDF began withdrawing its forces from Gaza. ( The Jerusalem Post

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Re: The Situation in Gaza (Pictures)
« Reply #36 on: January 25, 2009, 06:07:06 AM »
'

Strange burns'

Hundreds were killed in the 22-day Israeli offensive, but it is the manner in which Sabah's relatives lost their lives, and the weapon used, that has attracted attention.

 
Sabah's family say Israeli troops wrote an apology in Arabic on their wall

Sabah herself has suffered terrible burns on her arms, legs and torso and is considerable pain.

"There was fire, and so much white smoke," she says. "The missile melted my children. My daughter-in-law melted in front of my eyes."

Dr Nafiz Abu Shabaan, the head of the unit in which Sabah is being treated, says he has seen many victims with what he described as "strange burns".

"These burns were very severe, very deep, and became deeper and wider over time," he says. "In some cases, smoke came out of the wound, even after hours."

The cause of these types of injuries is believed, by visiting medical officials, to be Israel's use of shells containing white phosphorus.

Incendiary weapon

In another part of the city, at a former security compound flattened by the Israeli bombardment, Marc Garlasco, senior military analyst at Human Rights Watch, points out evidence that white phosphorus had been used.
BBC news



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Re: The Situation in Gaza (Pictures)
« Reply #37 on: January 26, 2009, 01:02:30 AM »
    Thus the word of the LORD came to me:
16
    Now, son of man, take a single stick, and write on it: Judah and those Israelites who are associated with him. Then take another stick and write on it: Joseph (the stick of Ephraim) and all the house of Israel associated with him.
17
    Then join the two sticks together, so that they form one stick in your hand.
18
    When your countrymen ask you, "Will you not tell us what you mean by all this?",
19
    answer them: Thus says the Lord GOD;  I will take the stick of Joseph, which is in the hand of Ephraim, and of the tribes of Israel associated with him, and I will join to it the stick of Judah, making them a single stick; they shall be one in my hand.
20
    The sticks on which you write you shall hold up before them to see.
21
    Tell them: Thus speaks the Lord GOD;  I will take the Israelites from among the nations to which they have come, and gather them from all sides to bring them back to their land.
22
    I will make them one nation upon the land, in the mountains of Israel, and there shall be one prince for them all. Never again shall they be two nations, and never again shall they be divided into two kingdoms.
23
    No longer shall they defile themselves with their idols, their abominations, and all their transgressions. I will deliver them from all their sins of apostasy, and cleanse them so that they may be my people and I may be their God.
24
    My servant David shall be prince over them, and there shall be one shepherd for them all; they shall live by my statutes and carefully observe my decrees.
25
    They shall live on the land which I gave to my servant Jacob, the land where their fathers lived; they shall live on it forever, they, and their children, and their children's children, with my servant David their prince forever.
26
    I will make with them a covenant of peace; it shall be an everlasting covenant with them, and I will multiply them, and put my sanctuary among them forever.
27
    My dwelling shall be with them; I will be their God, and they shall be my people.
28
    Thus the nations shall know that it is I, the LORD, who make Israel holy, when my sanctuary shall be set up among them forever.

--Ezekiel 37: 15-28



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Re: The Situation in Gaza (Pictures)
« Reply #38 on: January 26, 2009, 03:59:16 PM »
The liberal news media has always been anti-Israel. Anti-Jewish. These terrorist organizations either they be Hamas, Hezbollah, etc have within their platform and goal; the destruction of the state of Israel.

The Islamic Madras throughout the Middle East pronounce and reiterate the destruction of the Jews and the state of Israel.

Israel is surrounded, and is forced to defend itself in order to secure the existence of its nationhood and for the security of its people.

These Arab nations have threatened Israel before in 3 wars. And in all three wars, Israel has humbled all of those who would threaten her existence.


wait, wait, I don't understand, when the media is hated by the right, we always accuse it being ran by our Jewish population, now when the media is reporting Palestinian civilian casualties on the ground, they are now labeled anti-Jewish.

I hope we can try to understand at least both sides by critically reflecting on its history. Bottom line is that over 600 human beings have perished due to violence. I have still a lot to learn about the Palestinian/Israeli conflict so if anyone has any life experiences about this, please share.

The little history I do know: the formation of the Israeli state has roots in the occupation by the British, French and Italian nations (having occupied the territories after WWI).

Britain's declaration of the state of Israel postponed/disregarded the current Arab population's request for nationhood.  (Does this sound like Philippine Revolution deja-vu?) Once Israel's nationhood was recognized, the 6-day war occured, and massive amounts of Arabs were displaced creating the Palestinian refugee communities, destroying their economy and way of life.

Now the effects of this quagmire has polarized every facet of life in both communities where it is a culture to degrade the other. And the people who suffer the most are the children. Here is a documentary that depicts daily lives of children in Palestine: (the British director was sadly gunned down by Israeli troops)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=06655i1Z-p0

Now I am no way disregarding the fact that there are many Arab nations who wish to destroy the state of Israel, and not debating the topic of sovereignty. But Israeli's occupation of Palestine---it's policies and development--- are simply unjust and inhumane.  Why does Palestine have to resort to militant conflict and not political ones?

Death/Martyrdom is a way of life for the Palestinian people and just like with the rise of the Black Power militants in the US, the Hamas organization appeals to the desperate situation of the Palestinian people and sadly it is the only party that takes a stand on their social needs.


Until somehow there is a way to address the dire social injustices happening in Palestine, people will always resort to violence.  Until somehow there is a change in rhetoric and culture in valuing human lives, there will always be violence, whether through Palestinian rocket launchers or Israeli tanks and air-strikes.

To label this situation as merely defending Israeli sovereignty turns a blind eye to social injustice, human rights and condones more violence. Martin Luther King, Jr. and Ghandi are surely rolling in their graves.  Where does the Christian rule of "love thy enemy" come into play?

To apply this situation to us, what would happen if we displaced all our Moro peoples in Mindanao? Or if it was Philippine state policy to roll tanks every 24-hrs in their villages, have designated curfew times, and establish border check points throughout your town?   

-Leo
 

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Re: The Situation in Gaza (Pictures)
« Reply #39 on: January 26, 2009, 09:22:18 PM »
Hamas has 'overwhelming responsibility' for Gaza war: EU
Mehdi Lebouachera
January 26, 2009 - 11:39PM

A senior EU official touring Gaza on Monday blasted the "abominable" destruction in the enclave and said its "terrorist" Hamas rulers bear overwhelming responsibility for the war.

"It is abominable, indescribable," Louis Michel, European Commissioner for Development and Humanitarian Aid, told reporters in Gaza after touring some of the worst-hit places of Israel's deadly 22-day assault on the territory.

"At this time we have to also recall the overwhelming responsibility of Hamas," he said. "I intentionally say this here -- Hamas is a terrorist movement and it has to be denounced as such."

"In order for the EU to relaunch a political dialogue with a minimal chance of succeeding and a chance of moving forward towards peace, Hamas must accept the two little conditions that were put to it -- one, the right of Israel to exist and two that it abandon the armed struggle, the terrorist dimension of its approach."

Blasting the scale of destruction in Gaza, Michel said the European Union, the main donor to the Palestinians, was sick of paying for the same infrastructure that's destroyed over and over again.

"Public opinion is fed up to see that we are paying over and over again -- be it the (European) commission, the member states or the major donors -- for infrastructure that will be systematically destroyed," said Michel, known for his critical comments about Israel.

He said the bloc had approved nearly 60 additional million euros in aid to Palestinians in the wake of the Gaza offensive.

"Since 2000, Europe has spent three billion euros in Palestine," he said. "Every year, we spend 600 to 700 million euros. Today we decided on a supplementary payment of 60 million euros.

Thirty-two million euros would be allocated to Gaza, 20 to the West Bank and six million to the refugees, he said.

"All we do is pay. You know very well that from time to time we pay several times for the same infrastructure that is regularly demolished."

"Europe is doing all that it can, but unfortunately it cannot do any more. Show me a political body or an institution that is more engaged than Europe in helping the people of Palestine, because I'm not aware of one.

He said reconstruction was going to be difficult, voiced hope of a "sustainable and durable ceasefire" around the territory and urged Israel to open Gaza's border crossings to facilitate rebuilding efforts.

"It goes well beyond what I imagined. I didn't doubt that it would be serious. It is going to be extremely difficult to reconstruct and it will no doubt cost an enormous amount of money to bring people to decent living conditions," he said.

Israel must open Gaza's border crossings, which have been sealed to all but basic humanitarian aid since the Islamist Hamas, sworn to the destruction of the Jewish state, seized power in the territory in June 2007.

"The access really must be complete and not just medicine and food, we need goods in order to restart the minimal economic activity -- including fuel, spare parts, cement, all that will little by little permit a rebuilding of minimal living conditions," said Michel.

Michel planned to travel to Israel later on Monday.


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Re: The Situation in Gaza (Pictures)
« Reply #40 on: January 26, 2009, 09:50:32 PM »
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Re: The Situation in Gaza (Pictures)
« Reply #41 on: January 26, 2009, 10:57:11 PM »
Hallo Daryy, welcome to Tubag Bohol. I posted this news so you get a good idea of what´s really going on here in the Gaza. This news doesn´t come normally in our Phil tabloids.

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Re: The Situation in Gaza (Pictures)
« Reply #42 on: January 27, 2009, 12:24:50 AM »
Hamas has 'overwhelming responsibility' for Gaza war: EU
Mehdi Lebouachera
January 26, 2009 - 11:39PM

A senior EU official touring Gaza on Monday blasted the "abominable" destruction in the enclave and said its "terrorist" Hamas rulers bear overwhelming responsibility for the war.

"It is abominable, indescribable," Louis Michel, European Commissioner for Development and Humanitarian Aid, told reporters in Gaza after touring some of the worst-hit places of Israel's deadly 22-day assault on the territory.

"At this time we have to also recall the overwhelming responsibility of Hamas," he said. "I intentionally say this here -- Hamas is a terrorist movement and it has to be denounced as such."

"In order for the EU to relaunch a political dialogue with a minimal chance of succeeding and a chance of moving forward towards peace, Hamas must accept the two little conditions that were put to it -- one, the right of Israel to exist and two that it abandon the armed struggle, the terrorist dimension of its approach."

Blasting the scale of destruction in Gaza, Michel said the European Union, the main donor to the Palestinians, was sick of paying for the same infrastructure that's destroyed over and over again.

"Public opinion is fed up to see that we are paying over and over again -- be it the (European) commission, the member states or the major donors -- for infrastructure that will be systematically destroyed," said Michel, known for his critical comments about Israel.

He said the bloc had approved nearly 60 additional million euros in aid to Palestinians in the wake of the Gaza offensive.

"Since 2000, Europe has spent three billion euros in Palestine," he said. "Every year, we spend 600 to 700 million euros. Today we decided on a supplementary payment of 60 million euros.

Thirty-two million euros would be allocated to Gaza, 20 to the West Bank and six million to the refugees, he said.

"All we do is pay. You know very well that from time to time we pay several times for the same infrastructure that is regularly demolished."

"Europe is doing all that it can, but unfortunately it cannot do any more. Show me a political body or an institution that is more engaged than Europe in helping the people of Palestine, because I'm not aware of one.

He said reconstruction was going to be difficult, voiced hope of a "sustainable and durable ceasefire" around the territory and urged Israel to open Gaza's border crossings to facilitate rebuilding efforts.

"It goes well beyond what I imagined. I didn't doubt that it would be serious. It is going to be extremely difficult to reconstruct and it will no doubt cost an enormous amount of money to bring people to decent living conditions," he said.

Israel must open Gaza's border crossings, which have been sealed to all but basic humanitarian aid since the Islamist Hamas, sworn to the destruction of the Jewish state, seized power in the territory in June 2007.

"The access really must be complete and not just medicine and food, we need goods in order to restart the minimal economic activity -- including fuel, spare parts, cement, all that will little by little permit a rebuilding of minimal living conditions," said Michel.

Michel planned to travel to Israel later on Monday.


Hamas is directly linked to Al Qaeda. Terrorist islamofascists.

I have no sympathy for those who plan for the destruction of the state of Israel.

Let alone those who support a terrorist jihad against the United States of America.



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Re: The Situation in Gaza (Pictures)
« Reply #43 on: January 27, 2009, 02:59:36 AM »
That recent topic on EU aid is interesting. 

So what does everyone think the solution should be?   

The problem with Hamas is it truly does meet some social needs of Palestinian people, but the overall goal is the destruction of Israel and a whole people.  So their popularity rises when they see Israel pull out of some disputed territories and rises more when people look to Hamas to conduct basic government services the previous Fatah has failed to provide.   

According to the Council on Foreign Relations: http://www.cfr.org/publication/8968/#1


"Is Hamas only a terrorist group?

No. In addition to its military wing, the so-called Izz al-Din al-Qassam Brigade, Hamas devotes much of its estimated $70-million annual budget to an extensive social services network. Indeed, the extensive social and political work done by Hamas - and its reputation among Palestinians as averse to corruption - partly explain its defeat of the Fatah old guard in the 2006 legislative vote. Hamas funds schools, orphanages, mosques, healthcare clinics, soup kitchens, and sports leagues. "Approximately 90 percent of its work is in social, welfare, cultural, and educational activities," writes the Israeli scholar Reuven Paz. The Palestinian Authority often fails to provide such services, and Hamas's efforts in this area—as well as a reputation for honesty, in contrast to the many Fatah officials accused of corruption—help to explain the broad popularity it summoned to defeat Fatah in the PA's recent elections."

Families of suicide bombers are also given compensation for their sons terrorist act: "After a bombing, Hamas gives the family of the suicide bomber between three thousand dollars and five thousand dollars and assures them their son died a martyr in holy jihad."

So the situation is very problematic as the violence is now religious and justified throughout its social services, without any alternative. 

I really pray the day that there will be some outlet for Israeli people and Palestinian people to start mutual communication and not give any power to militant leadership.

Terrorism is truly the battle for the minds/faiths of people, and any violent aggression that kills innocent civilians will just harbor more terrorism and hatred across the world.

 "your people will judge you on what you can build and not what you destroy" - Barack Obama to Muslim leaders, I think it should go both ways.

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Re: The Situation in Gaza (Pictures)
« Reply #44 on: January 27, 2009, 04:35:17 AM »
Make this story very very short...

"Di man gani magkasinabut ang puro BOL-ANON, (nga puro Christians) kana pang Israelis ug Palistine"

So let them do their thing, leave them alone and let's take care our own problems...

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hofelina

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Re: The Situation in Gaza (Pictures)
« Reply #45 on: January 27, 2009, 04:41:01 AM »
This is a good analysis of the existence of Hamas. They were at first very benovolent to refugees from Libanon to Damascus. This makes their name so sweet and attractive, but this hopeless refugees and displaced palestines has no choice but to go along with, a ray of  hope, kapit sa patalim. They were shrewed enough to convince them to allow the Hamas to build their tunnels (utang na loob) so it is no wonder that the Israeli forces marched in their midst to destroy their underground tunnels.
The whole situation is a vicious cycle. The next question is who provides the money?

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Re: The Situation in Gaza (Pictures)
« Reply #46 on: January 27, 2009, 04:48:24 AM »

hofelina

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Re: The Situation in Gaza (Pictures)
« Reply #47 on: January 27, 2009, 11:07:25 PM »
 Mosab Hassan Yousef is an extraordinary young man with an extraordinary story. He was born the son of one of the most influential leaders of the militant Hamas organization in the West Bank and grew up in a strict Islamic family.

Now, at 30 years old, he attends an evangelical Christian church, Barabbas Road in San Diego, Calif. He renounced his Muslim faith, left his family behind in Ramallah and is seeking asylum in the United States.www.foxnews.com


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Re: The Situation in Gaza (Pictures)
« Reply #48 on: January 27, 2009, 11:53:31 PM »
In order for us to understand the situation, we need to dig deeper into the ideologies of said parties. Per se, Hamas.


    Iranian Student Group: Hamas Is a Terrorist Group and Its Use of Civilians is Inhumane; Those Who Arm Hamas Have Innocent Blood on Their Hands; Ahmadinejad's Government Is Using Gaza Crisis to Settle Political Scores

In a December 30, 2008 communiqué, the Iranian student group Daftar-e Tahkim-e Vahdat - Taif-e 'Alameh (the Office for Strengthening Unity - Clerics Circle, hereafter referred to as "Daftar-e Tahkim-e Vahdat") condemned Hamas, calling it a "terrorist group." It said that Hamas's use of civilians to protect it from Israel's attacks was inhumane, and criticized the Iranian regime for arming Hamas, claiming that as a result Iran "has the blood of innocents on its hands."

Following are excerpts from the communiqué, from statements by the secretary of Daftar-e Tahkim-e Vahdat - Taif-e 'Alameh, and from a reaction by an Iranian government daily. [1]


Those Who Have Armed and Encouraged... Hamas Have Innocent Blood on Their Hands The communiqué stated: "Those who have armed and encouraged groups like Hamas - which only yesterday did not hide its sympathy for the criminal Saddam Hussein, and which declared three days of mourning after his death - have innocent blood on their hands: [the blood of those killed] in the [recent] hostilities [in Gaza]. Now it is they who must be accountable to humanity, and it is they who must explain this tragic situation.

"Israel's current crimes in Gaza are strongly condemned - but it is equally [important] to condemn the terror organizations that use kindergartens and hospitals as a shield against the [Israeli] attacks. [Hamas's use of human shields] prepares the ground for intensified bombardment [by Israel] and for the killing of children and civilians, and [therefore] it is an inhuman act.

"Daftar-e Tahkim-e Vahdat strongly condemns the current situation in the Gaza Strip and the killing of civilians and innocents. It believes that the sacrifice of defenseless people - especially children - [in Gaza] is the result of other conflicts in the regional and international arena.

"It had been expected that peace and human rights organizations would have done more to stop this inhuman slaughter before the disaster reached such [devastating] proportions - despite the difficulties thrown up by certain leaders..." [2]

Daftar-e Tahkim-e Vahdat Secretary: Ahmadinejad's Government Is Using the Gaza Crisis to Settle Political Scores

Daftar-e Tahkim-e Vahdat secretary, Mehdi Arabshahi, accused circles close to Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad of taking advantage of the situation in Gaza to crack down on human rights organizations in Iran, and to silence his opponents. Arabshahi said: "Unfortunately, we see that in Iran itself, a faction that outwardly pretends to be sympathetic to the Palestinians [actually] regards the [Gaza] tragedy as an opportunity to stifle the voices of the [Iranian] human rights [organizations]. [This faction] has launched harsh attacks against human rights activists and against political factions critical [of the regime]. [Since the beginning of the Israeli offensive], the offices of [Shirin Ebadi's] human rights organization have been illegally closed; [union official] [Ibrahim] Madadi has been arrested; [3] 11 [more] teachers were arrested today, and numerous students were expelled from the universities of Shiraz and Lorestan..."

Arabshahi then referred to the daily newspaper Kargozaran, which was closed down by the regime for publishing the Daftar-e Tahkim-e Vahdat communiqué (see below). He explained that the publication of the communiqué was only an excuse to close the paper: "Sadly, those who have long been waiting for an chance to silence the media [outlets] critical of Ahmadinejad, in advance of the presidential elections, have found that this moment - when the [Iranians] are emotionally preoccupied with the Gaza disaster - is a golden opportunity to realize this aspiration...

"This group, which now raises a great outcry against any view different [from its own], has already shown that it does not believe its own proclamations in the slightest, and that its only goal is to settle political scores. To wit, [this group did not protest when] Esfandiar Rahim Mashaii, Ahmadinejad's deputy and a member of his government, made declarations in favor of friendship with Israel, which were [completely] at odds with the slogans and claims of this faction... " [4]

The Regime Reacts: Closes Kargozaran, Bashes Daftar-e Tahkim-e Vahdat

On December 31, 2008, one day after it published excerpts from the Daftar-e Tahkim-e Vahdat communiqué, the daily Kargozaran was closed down by Ahmadinejad's government. [5] In a December 31, 2008 article, the daily Kayhan, which is close to Iranian Supreme Leader Ali Khamenei, lambasted the group, calling it illegal and saying that its "declarations are completely identical to official proclamations of Zionist officials," and attacked Kargozaran for publishing the group's "insolent communiqué." Kayhan stated that Kargozaran was serving as a mouthpiece for Zionist propaganda, just like the Israeli Persian-language radio station. It added: "The Hamas fighters are an integral part of the people of Gaza, and there is not a single report that they are taking refuge in kindergartens, [especially since they are familiar with] Israel's record, and know full well that the occupiers of Jerusalem never spare hospitals and kindergartens." [6]

In its January 1, 2009 editorial, the official Iranian news agency IRNA stated that the Daftar-e Tahkim-e Vahdat communiqué was identical to statements by Israel's ambassador to London in a CNN interview that aired on December 30, 2008, the day the communiqué was published. It added that the similarity between the Daftar-e Tahkim-e Vahdat's positions and those of the Zionist regime officials proved that there were strategic relations between them. [7]

Source:
http://www.memri.org/bin/latestnews.cgi?ID=SD217509

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Lorenzo

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Re: The Situation in Gaza (Pictures)
« Reply #49 on: January 27, 2009, 11:56:44 PM »
Ladies and Gentlemen,

This is Hamas:












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leoello

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Re: The Situation in Gaza (Pictures)
« Reply #50 on: January 28, 2009, 01:18:44 AM »
Ladies and Gentlemen, this is the Israeli Defense Forces:




Any given day there are tanks in the Gaza Strip neighborhoods searching for terrorist, this is a daily activity for kids growing up.


Israeli armies and its violence are always glorified,




But in our support of the Israeli army, do we support the use of chemical weapons?

These chemical bombs leads to this:




Now in no way I am supporting Hamas' tactics, ideology, and violence on innocent victims, but to solve this issue by more genocide, chemical warfare, and more bullets...will only create a new generation of hatred (refer to Lorenzo's pictures)



From a Palestinian citizen:

“Let them go in on the ground and take out Hamas, but spare the children,” said a taxi driver from the camp who identified himself by his first name, Yasir. The missiles from the air “do not differentiate,” he said.  (From New York Times article, http://www.nytimes.com/2009/01/03/world/middleeast/03mideast.html?hp)

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Lorenzo

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Re: The Situation in Gaza (Pictures)
« Reply #51 on: January 28, 2009, 03:26:05 AM »
Leo,

The actions of government of Israel and the Israeli Defense Forces have always been purely defensive, never offensive. Israel's incursions into Gaza, West Bank are warranted as it is in constant barrage of rockets, illegal tunneling through its borders by would-be terrorists.

Prior to Israel's tactical assault of Gaza, it was subject to a barrage of Hamas rocket barrages. Hamas was warned to cease attacks as any such would be subject to Israeli retribution.

Hamas leaders, in confidence of their own legitimacy and in the spirit of defiance, failed to acquiesce.

And as a result, invited Israeli strategic military operations to begin.

The problem in dealing with Hamas and in the populatory geographics is due in part to the fact that Hamas understands that there will be an Israeli recourse; in order to prioritize their interests, they place their offices, headquarters deep in civilian zones. So, in terms of military operations, it becomes almost impossible to evade civilian casualties when the targeted authority entrenches itself within the core of a civilian zone.

Hamas as well as Hezbollah have initiated bloody and impervious Intifadahs against Israel and the Jewish people time and time again. In 2000, its Intifadah led to the deaths of thousands of both sides.

Israel has the right to defend itself against authorities whose main object is to shatter that very sacred right of existance. One in which has been denied to the Israelis from their own sacred land for almost 2 thousand years.

Again, I am not hostile towards the Palestinian people, but towards Hamas, the organization. Which is a terrorist organization, as labeled by our Country, The United States of America and by many other World Powers.

Hamas is the same group that wanted sympathy for Saddam Hussein. A man who butchered hundreds of thousands of his own; let alone the gassing of ethnic Kurds.

Leo, Hamas is the same organization that rallied to the streets in joyous festivity when Al Qaeda attacked the United States in September 11, 2001. The deaths of 3000 Americans was a source of pride and joy for them. That, in itself, speaks miles about an organization. They are directly linked to Al Qaeda, a global terrorist organization, one that many of our brothers and sisters in the Armed Forces are fighting.

Israel will not bend to terrorists. Israel will not cower in fear.

Even when Rome assaulted the Israel, the Israeli defended to the last man.

I stand with Israel.

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leoello

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Re: The Situation in Gaza (Pictures)
« Reply #52 on: January 28, 2009, 04:35:17 AM »
Lorenzo,

I respect your adamant stance with Israel, but I am also a citizen of the US who will not blindly support Israel nor its "defensive stance" to unleash chemical air raids.  These effects echo of our own military tactics of Agent Orange to the Vietnamese, and Saddam's gassing of the Kurds, effects that WILL LAST GENERATIONS.

Yes it is a strategic logistical dilemma but underlying all the defensive strikes, the terrorist suicide bombs, the Islamic fundamentalists, is an occupied Palestinian territory and people whose resources (outside of the Hamas schools, hospitals, daycares) are completely controlled by Israel: <a href="http://www.fmep.org/analysis/analysis/water-and-the-palestinian-israeli-conflict">access to water</a>, border patrol and entry, economic licenses. So once again, this terrorism breeds into the lives of peoples' impoverished realities for the request of self-determination. 

In terms of nation-building, lets also remember the formation of Israel's nation included "terrorist" activity through the <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hagana">Haganah and Irgun paramilitary Israeli groups that bombed British personnel and its railroads and organized illegal immigration.</a> There is a consensus in Israel even today, that the recent attacks in Palestine <a href="http://www.nytimes.com/2009/01/27/world/middleeast/27mideast.html?ref=middleeast">did not go far enough</a>

To not even critically acknowledge the "enemy's" point of view, to the world as they see it, we will only perpetuate Bush's "with us or against us" mentality that he promoted after September 11. This only has caused more wars and there will be no common ground.  It is this rhetoric that had us backing a pattern of oppressive military regimes from Saddam to Marcos to Diem.

I remember the atmosphere all over America after September 11 very deeply and our first reaction was to "bomb  those sand n**gers" never an understanding of our own histories intertwined with the Iraq, Afghanistan and the Arab world.

And it is no secret Islamic fundamentalist celebrate any type of death as martyrdom for their cause especially after 9/11. Those actions I condone but at the same time I have never agreed with Bush's War----<a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iraq_for_sale">the most privatized war in our nation's history.</a>  I spoke with people and development workers in Iraq and presence of Halliburton & Blackwater is more telling of our motives than the lack of armor they go to combat with.  They come with many stories of taking "pleasure trips" to the Philippines and Southeast Asia as well, not all our soldiers are wrapped up into that but I have friends who refused to participate in those activities.



In moving forward, what would a humane solution be?

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Bad Godesberg

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Re: The Situation in Gaza (Pictures)
« Reply #53 on: January 28, 2009, 07:41:30 AM »
  "All nations must honor the Lord...all people should pray for the True and Holy Spirit...The world is not saved by force, the world will be saved by the Holy Spirit...Now the Father and the Son want to be asked to send the Spirit...the Spirit of Truth, Who alone can bring Peace!...All nations groan under the yoke of Satan...Time is serious and pressing...Now the Spirit is to descend upon the world and this is why I want people to pray for His coming. I am standing upon the globe because this message concerns the whole world...Listen, mankind! You will preserve peace if you believe in Him!...Let all men return to the Cross...Take your place at the foot of the Cross and draw strength from the Sacrifice; the pagans will not overwhelm you...If you practice Love in all its refinement among yourselves, the 'big ones' of this world will no longer have a chance to harm you...say the prayer I have taught you and the Son will grant your request...As the carpet of snow melts into the ground, so will the fruit [Peace] which is the Holy Spirit come into the hearts of all nations who say this prayer everyday!...You cannot estimate the value this prayer will have...Say the prayer...It has been given for the benefit of all nations...for the conversion of the
world...Do your work and see to it that it is made known everywhere...The Son demands obedience!...The Blessed Trinity will reign over the world again!" (From the 1951 messages of The Lady of All Nations.)

The following is the Prayer to the Holy Spirit given to us on February 11, 1951:       

Lord Jesus Christ, Son of the Father, send now Your Spirit over the earth. Let the Holy Spirit live in the hearts of all nations that they may be preserved from degeneration, disaster and war. May The Lady of All Nations, who once was Mary, be our advocate. Amen.

 :'(  :'(  :'(
+JLY
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Lorenzo

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Re: The Situation in Gaza (Pictures)
« Reply #54 on: January 31, 2009, 06:19:07 AM »
Lorenzo,

I respect your adamant stance with Israel, but I am also a citizen of the US who will not blindly support Israel nor its "defensive stance" to unleash chemical air raids.  These effects echo of our own military tactics of Agent Orange to the Vietnamese, and Saddam's gassing of the Kurds, effects that WILL LAST GENERATIONS.

Yes it is a strategic logistical dilemma but underlying all the defensive strikes, the terrorist suicide bombs, the Islamic fundamentalists, is an occupied Palestinian territory and people whose resources (outside of the Hamas schools, hospitals, daycares) are completely controlled by Israel: <a href="http://www.fmep.org/analysis/analysis/water-and-the-palestinian-israeli-conflict">access to water</a>, border patrol and entry, economic licenses. So once again, this terrorism breeds into the lives of peoples' impoverished realities for the request of self-determination. 

In terms of nation-building, lets also remember the formation of Israel's nation included "terrorist" activity through the <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hagana">Haganah and Irgun paramilitary Israeli groups that bombed British personnel and its railroads and organized illegal immigration.</a> There is a consensus in Israel even today, that the recent attacks in Palestine <a href="http://www.nytimes.com/2009/01/27/world/middleeast/27mideast.html?ref=middleeast">did not go far enough</a>

To not even critically acknowledge the "enemy's" point of view, to the world as they see it, we will only perpetuate Bush's "with us or against us" mentality that he promoted after September 11. This only has caused more wars and there will be no common ground.  It is this rhetoric that had us backing a pattern of oppressive military regimes from Saddam to Marcos to Diem.

I remember the atmosphere all over America after September 11 very deeply and our first reaction was to "bomb  those sand n**gers" never an understanding of our own histories intertwined with the Iraq, Afghanistan and the Arab world.

And it is no secret Islamic fundamentalist celebrate any type of death as martyrdom for their cause especially after 9/11. Those actions I condone but at the same time I have never agreed with Bush's War----<a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iraq_for_sale">the most privatized war in our nation's history.</a>  I spoke with people and development workers in Iraq and presence of Halliburton & Blackwater is more telling of our motives than the lack of armor they go to combat with.  They come with many stories of taking "pleasure trips" to the Philippines and Southeast Asia as well, not all our soldiers are wrapped up into that but I have friends who refused to participate in those activities.



In moving forward, what would a humane solution be?

Thank you, Leo, for sharing your view on the matter.

To answer your question of "What would be the humane solution" to this undeniably persistent predicament, I think it is best to analyze the situation in the ground: 1) The goals of the Palestinian people 2) The goals of Israel 3) What can be done to solidify peace 4) what are the factors that inhibit the realization of a continued peace.

It is evident that both peoples desire to either maintain their nationhood or to establish a state. The latter regarding the establishment of a Palestinian state.

In regards to the development of a Palestinian state, Israel has always supported such an idea:
"Time after time, Israel has stated its desire to see two states - the State of Israel and a Palestinian state - living side by side in peace and security (as expressed in US President Bush's vision of 24 June 2002). Israel believes that a true resolution of the conflict will see two national states, a Palestinian state for the Palestinian people and a Jewish state for the Jewish people. Israel has no desire to rule over the Palestinians, and believes that a truly democratic Palestinian state fully at peace with Israel will promote the long-term security and well-being of Israel as a Jewish state.
 
Israel has no qualms regarding the establishment of a Palestinian state, per se. The only issue is what kind of Palestinian state should be established. Will it be a democratic state of law and order, which eschews terrorism, violence and incitement and therefore be a state with which Israel can live in peace? Or will it be an anarchic state that is continuing on the path of violence and terrorism, which will not only endanger Israel but the stability of the region as a whole?
 
Israel cannot abide the establishment of a terrorist state along its borders. Efforts towards establishing a Palestinian state must take Israel's rights and vital interests into account, especially on matters of security, so that there can be peace and stability in the region.

Israel’s goal of being a democratic Jewish state, living in harmony with its neighbors, led it to embrace the vision of two states for two peoples as resolved by the United Nations' partition plan in 1947. Israel realized that the peoples of the Middle East are neighbors whose futures are inevitably linked. No peace will last that fails to take this into account.

It has taken nearly 60 years, and far too many wars, for this vision to be recognized by Israel’s immediate neighbors, the Palestinians. Events following the Hamas takeover of Gaza suggest that the time has never been more appropriate to finally realize this vision.

The establishment of Israel answered the historic national aspirations of the Jewish people - whether those living in the Holy Land, fleeing the horrors of the Holocaust or expelled from Arab lands. The future Palestinian state must fill a similar purpose for Palestinians. It must be the embodiment of the national claims of all the Palestinian people - of those in the West Bank and Gaza, of those refugee camps in neighboring Arab states and of those living throughout the rest of the world.

Israel has a vested interest, shared by moderates throughout the region, in the creation of a stable, prosperous, and peaceful Palestinian state. As demonstrated by its disengagement from Gaza in 2005, Israel is ready to take painful steps to advance this goal. However, it must know that its partners are ready also for historic compromise that will bring lasting peace.

How can peace be realized?

Israel has always been willing to compromise and all Israeli governments have been willing to make major sacrifices for the sake of peace. However, peacemaking requires concessions as well as confidence-building measures on both sides. Just as Israel is willing to address the rights and interests of the Palestinians, Israel has legitimate rights and interests that need to be addressed. Peace can only be achieved through negotiations to bridge gaps and resolve all outstanding issues.

Israel believes that it can make peace with a moderate Palestinian leadership that rejects terrorism. When in the past, Israel met Arab leaders, like President Sadat of Egypt and King Hussein of Jordan, who spoke the language of peace and were willing to take concrete steps for coexistence, Israel reached agreements with them and peace was achieved. Israel is willing to stand in peace with all the moderate states of the region.

For negotiations to be possible and for them to have a chance to succeed, Palestinian terrorism and incitement, supported by countries such as Iran and Syria, must be brought to an end. Extremist Palestinian elements, such as Hamas, are unwilling to recognize Israel's very right to exist, and continue to violently act against Israel, against the moderate Palestinian leadership and against the peace process. As such, they have no place at the negotiating table.

Dismantling the terrorist infrastructure is not only the first step in the Roadmap, it is also at the foundation of any peace process. Peacemaking requires the creation of a positive atmosphere, one that is free of terrorism and incitement, and one that promotes efforts to achieve mutual understanding. Israel has on many occasions taken steps to help improve Palestinian living conditions and the rehabilitation of the Palestinian economy. Israel has made - and is willing to make in the future - goodwill gestures towards the moderate Palestinian camp - such as easing movement by removing road barriers, transferring tax revenues and releasing prisoners. Israel is ready to take many such steps provided that Israeli security is not harmed and that the Palestinians do not respond with terrorism.
 
Attempts by the Palestinians and the Arab countries to compel Israel to accept unreasonable Palestinian demands will not bring the parties any closer to peace. It is very important that the Arab states do not support hard-line Palestinian positions, making it ever more difficult for the Palestinians themselves to make the necessary compromises.

UN Security Council resolutions 242 and 338, which all parties in the region have accepted, provide an important outline for conducting negotiations on a permanent settlement. Israel has also supported implementation of the measures of the Roadmap. But the Roadmap will work only if the Palestinians fulfill their obligations, something they have not truly begun to do, especially when it comes to dismantling the terrorist infrastructure and ending incitement, as required in the first phase of the Roadmap.

Assessing the Factor of Hamas

Despite this ongoing Hamas terrorism, Israel will maintain an ongoing dialogue with Palestinian moderates, in order to send the message to the Palestinians that if the moderates are the representatives of their national aspirations, they can achieve a state of their own.
 
Israel's guiding principle is that of differentiating between the moderates and the extremists, between those who are willing and ready to advance the peace process and those whose ideology is based on extremism and religious fanaticism and who treat even their own people with the utmost brutality. Israel hopes that the former will prevail, yet ultimately, the choice must be made by the Palestinians themselves.
 
While Hamas terrorists continue to target Israelis, they have also brought tragedy to Palestinians. As events in Gaza have shown, while the terrorists may claim to be advancing Palestinian rights, they have succeeded only in undermining them.
 
It is self-evident that the future Palestinian state cannot be a terrorist state. For this reason, the international community has insisted that the path to Palestinian statehood goes through acceptance of the Quartet principles, including the renunciation of terrorism, the implementation of the Roadmap obligations and recognition of Israel's right to exist. These are the foundational principles for lasting peace.
 
The role of the Arab world in this context is critical. In the past, the involvement of constructive regional actors in assisting the process of Israeli-Palestinian peace-making was lacking. The recent landmark Arab League peace initiative presents just such an opportunity for positive regional engagement.
 
Nevertheless, there should be no illusions. The enemies of coexistence, led by Iran and its sponsorship of Hizbullah and Hamas, are trying to do all in their power to sabotage any prospect for peace. The Teheran regime, in its declared intention to “wipe Israel off the map,” has perverted Islam into a totalitarian political manifesto merely masquerading as a religion. It is determined to perpetuate a resolvable conflict into a future of despair. Syria, as well, is undermining Israeli-Palestinian reconciliation, through its support of terrorist groups such as Hamas and the Palestinian Islamic Jihad, whose operational headquarters are located in Damascus.
 
There is no insurmountable conflict between Israel and the Palestinians. Rather, there is a common denominator in the desire for peace, supported by all moderate states in the region that understand that the real threat to peace comes from the extremist states that support terrorism.
 
There are moderates in the Palestinian Authority who could be Israel’s partners for peace, who believe a future Palestinian state should be based on democracy and understanding - as opposed to the extremists, whose basic totalitarian idea is to deprive others of their rights.
 
While Israel will continue to defend its population against Hamas terrorism, it is ultimately the role of the moderates among the Palestinians to confront Hamas.


Source:
Israeli Ministry of Foreign Affairs
United States Military Resource
Arab League Data

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