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Author Topic: Corruption in RP? Blame the Church  (Read 13907 times)

Brownman

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Corruption in RP? Blame the Church
« on: December 18, 2008, 10:16:53 PM »
By Delon Porcalla

 The Catholic Church can blame the government for massive corruption in the country, but this in itself is a testament on how miserably it has failed to shepherd its flock, a senior lawmaker pointed out yesterday.

Isabela Rep. Rodolfo “Rodito” Albano III said perceptions of the Philippines being the most corrupt in Asia and second most corrupt in the world only show that priests failed in their mission to lead people in the right direction.

“We were the only Catholic country in Asia for 400 years. Please ask the bishops why we are the most corrupt nation. That should answer everything,” he said. About 85 percent of the 85 million Filipinos are Catholics.

As far as Manila Rep. Bienvenido Abante is concerned, corruption is not just limited to the government bureaucracy and some parts of the business sector because even religious entities such as the church and several other groups have the same problems.

The Baptist bishop-turned-lawmaker urged Catholic Bishops’ Conference of the Philippines (CBCP) president Angel Lagdameo, also the Archbishop of Jaro, Iloilo, to look in his own backyard first before pointing an accusing finger at anyone.

“That should be his (Lagdameo’s) first concern (address corruption and human right abuses in the Church). Anyway, the people he accuses of corruption and human rights abuses are also members of his church,” Abante pointed out.

“Every nation has its own human rights violations, our country has the history of it since time immemorial. Even the US is not spared from that. What we must do is to be vigilant and check the abuses or corruption both in the government and business sectors,” he said.

Abante is pastor and bishop of the Bible Believers League for Morality and Democracy.

Northern Samar Rep. Paul Daza, for his part, urged everyone to be “constructive rather than destructive in our efforts to improve our society.”

“We need to work together for economic progress to improve the plight of our poor brothers and sisters,” Daza said.

“The Philippines can shine during these times of global crisis by having more political stability and good governance to help our domestic businesses and encourage foreign companies and investors to come to the Philippines,” he said.

Bayan Muna Rep. Satur Ocampo said the public should support Lagdameo’s position by making President Arroyo accountable on the celebration of the 60th anniversary of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights.

“Archbishop Lagdameo has aptly stated the sense of shame and embarrassment that the Arroyo government must bear and which the people must denounce and call GMA to account for,” said the deputy minority leader, former spokesman for the left-wing National Democratic Front.

“Human rights is definitely an area where the country could use improvement, not only in the area of civil and political rights but also in the realm of economic and social rights,” Aurora Rep. Juan Edgardo Angara said.



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A Layman

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Re: Corruption in RP? Blame the Church
« Reply #1 on: December 18, 2008, 10:48:13 PM »
Magsinumbagay na lang mo diha. Ngano man diay Katoliko ra bay corrupt? Wa bay Protestanteng corrupt? Jama jama ra man mo diha! Pwe!

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Brownman

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Re: Corruption in RP? Blame the Church
« Reply #2 on: December 18, 2008, 11:13:52 PM »
korek ka Mr. Alyman daghan pa na silang corrupt di lang makit an kay
gapahipi hipi lang.

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Re: Corruption in RP? Blame the Church
« Reply #3 on: December 18, 2008, 11:16:28 PM »
korek!


A'lie, nagbanaw na na imong luwa diha!

hahahhahahha

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Re: Corruption in RP? Blame the Church
« Reply #4 on: December 22, 2008, 02:22:25 AM »
Magsinumbagay na lang mo diha. Ngano man diay Katoliko ra bay corrupt? Wa bay Protestanteng corrupt? Jama jama ra man mo diha! Pwe!

aprob kaayo ko ana layman...hapit lang ko maigo sa pag-pwe nimo hehehe....peace, joke lang.

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A Layman

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Re: Corruption in RP? Blame the Church
« Reply #5 on: December 24, 2008, 09:37:03 PM »
'Sensya ka na lang Glace. Sorry, wa pa ra ba ko mag sipilyo.

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Lorenzo

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Re: Corruption in RP? Blame the Church
« Reply #6 on: December 24, 2008, 09:49:00 PM »
Politicians blaming the church for government's own inadequacy?

Pathetic!

Accept and take responsibility where it is due.

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Re: Corruption in RP? Blame the Church
« Reply #7 on: January 07, 2009, 08:48:49 AM »
'Sensya ka na lang Glace. Sorry, wa pa ra ba ko mag sipilyo.

ok ra, lay. nakalihay man sab ko...

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A Layman

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Re: Corruption in RP? Blame the Church
« Reply #8 on: January 07, 2009, 08:52:15 AM »
Maayo gani kay nilihay ka...Mora ra bag dunay nilugpot nga hukaw!!!

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Re: Corruption in RP? Blame the Church
« Reply #9 on: January 09, 2009, 02:01:02 PM »
We have the best constitutions, the best laws because we have the best legislators before,  but not now.  the only thing that does not work well are the realities of our present time:

A) There is a separate interpretation of our law for the rich, the famous, the infuential and powerful;
B) There is a separate interpretation of our law for the poor, the unknown,, and the helpless.

Alisin ang lumang piring sa babaeng simbolo ng Batas. Baka, there is still hope to reform our society.  Let the ax falls to one who violates the law, whoever he is.

To recall President Ramon Magsaysay, before his death he said this famous words:

" I WILL SEND MY OWN FATHER TO JAIL IF HE BREAKS THE LAW."





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A Layman

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Re: Corruption in RP? Blame the Church
« Reply #10 on: January 09, 2009, 02:14:59 PM »
The church is ever preaching for good values based on Christian ethics and practices. These values are relatively accepted by everyone, believer or non-believers. The church for now has done their share of desiminating the gospels helpful in the value formation of an individual, though there was nowhere found that they tried to impose their teachings for an individual to believe in. Relatively, the church teachings depends on the person who have it, either one has to use them for good, or the other one uses them as guise to hook others for some evil motives as most of the politicians now are doing. (Churchmen are not exempted from this). Then, why blame the church for the existing corrupt practices of the government? Too bad for the modern day Pharisees!

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Lorenzo

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Re: Corruption in RP? Blame the Church
« Reply #11 on: January 10, 2009, 02:16:08 PM »
Well said, Layman. Well Said!

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tamislat

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Re: Corruption in RP? Blame the Church
« Reply #12 on: January 12, 2009, 04:14:05 PM »
Corruption is a manifestation of a decaying moral value. Ug kana nga moral degradation makit-an nato bisan asa nga suok sa kalibutan. ug kay ang Pinoy, di man jud magpa-uwahi lagi, mao na nga kita maoy pinaka-.

We tend to point an accusing finger at each other forgetting that in the process, three fingers point in our direction. It's not only the state, it's not only the church. we all are. Mas klaro lang ang corruption diha sa gobyerno kay mao man na ang kanunay ma-highlight sa atong mga television, broadsheets, radio, etc. labi na kay we claim to be part of the institution. That is, in the spirit of "pagpakabana", we cry "foul" to these wrong doings. But aren't we part of the corrupt system.

If the mission of changing the system is a far cry, then let's do our share in our own little ways. "...it is better to light just one little candle... than curse the dark..."

Let's make today a brand new day. Let's start by knowing where we are....

ikaw empleyado - ang bondpaper ba nga imo gipagamit sa imong anak alang sa ilang project gikan ba sa supply sa imong opisina?

ikaw office driver or office chief - gigamit ba nimo ang service vehicle sa opisina paghatud-kuha nila sa imo mga anak sa school?

ikaw pulis - gigamit ba nimo ang imong position o chapa aron makakuka lag libre nga pasahe sa barko, bus o jeep?

ikaw garbage collector - wa ba nimo pabori pagkuha ang basura sa balay nga kanunay mohatag nimo og "tip"?

ikaw caminero (kamanero, etc. ) - motungha ba ka sa imong pwesto sa insaktong oras bisan walay foreman nga nagbantay?

ikaw negosyante - wa ba nimo tibhongi og tubig ang suka o tuba nga imong baligya aron madaghan?

ikaw panday - dretso-dretso ba ang imong pagpamanday, ug di na ka maglangan pagpasumangil baid-baid sa gabas ug tigib?

Ikaw tricycle driver, mihatag ba ka sa sukli nga singko sentavos sa imong pasahero?

ikaw botante - nidawat ba ka sa pila ka pesos nga bugti sa imong boto... sa way paglantaw unsa ang bugti sa umaabot?

ug kanang computer nga imong gigamit diha, di ba sa opisina man na, unja oras pa jud sa tingtrabaho nga gibayran ta?

and if you answer "yes" to any one of these questions... either we are already corrupt, or are prone to corruption.... so we need to re-align our lives a little...

Start na ta...

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TOPAC

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Re: Corruption in RP? Blame the Church
« Reply #13 on: January 12, 2009, 04:25:39 PM »
Here's the blame game again! COME ON!

g***, it's so easy to blame the church!

But why not blame ourselves for doing nothing? For being cynical? For taking the can't-attitude? COME ON!

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Re: Corruption in RP? Blame the Church
« Reply #14 on: January 12, 2009, 09:19:42 PM »
Corruption is a manifestation of a decaying moral value. Ug kana nga moral degradation makit-an nato bisan asa nga suok sa kalibutan. ug kay ang Pinoy, di man jud magpa-uwahi lagi, mao na nga kita maoy pinaka-.

We tend to point an accusing finger at each other forgetting that in the process, three fingers point in our direction. It's not only the state, it's not only the church. we all are. Mas klaro lang ang corruption diha sa gobyerno kay mao man na ang kanunay ma-highlight sa atong mga television, broadsheets, radio, etc. labi na kay we claim to be part of the institution. That is, in the spirit of "pagpakabana", we cry "foul" to these wrong doings. But aren't we part of the corrupt system.

If the mission of changing the system is a far cry, then let's do our share in our own little ways. "...it is better to light just one little candle... than curse the dark..."

Let's make today a brand new day. Let's start by knowing where we are....

ikaw empleyado - ang bondpaper ba nga imo gipagamit sa imong anak alang sa ilang project gikan ba sa supply sa imong opisina?

ikaw office driver or office chief - gigamit ba nimo ang service vehicle sa opisina paghatud-kuha nila sa imo mga anak sa school?

ikaw pulis - gigamit ba nimo ang imong position o chapa aron makakuka lag libre nga pasahe sa barko, bus o jeep?

ikaw garbage collector - wa ba nimo pabori pagkuha ang basura sa balay nga kanunay mohatag nimo og "tip"?

ikaw caminero (kamanero, etc. ) - motungha ba ka sa imong pwesto sa insaktong oras bisan walay foreman nga nagbantay?

ikaw negosyante - wa ba nimo tibhongi og tubig ang suka o tuba nga imong baligya aron madaghan?

ikaw panday - dretso-dretso ba ang imong pagpamanday, ug di na ka maglangan pagpasumangil baid-baid sa gabas ug tigib?

Ikaw tricycle driver, mihatag ba ka sa sukli nga singko sentavos sa imong pasahero?

ikaw botante - nidawat ba ka sa pila ka pesos nga bugti sa imong boto... sa way paglantaw unsa ang bugti sa umaabot?

ug kanang computer nga imong gigamit diha, di ba sa opisina man na, unja oras pa jud sa tingtrabaho nga gibayran ta?

and if you answer "yes" to any one of these questions... either we are already corrupt, or are prone to corruption.... so we need to re-align our lives a little...

Start na ta...

maayong pamalandongan ni tamislat.

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TOPAC

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Re: Corruption in RP? Blame the Church
« Reply #15 on: January 13, 2009, 08:45:41 AM »
ug kanang computer nga imong gigamit diha, di ba sa opisina man na, unja oras pa jud sa tingtrabaho nga gibayran ta?

Start na ta...

patay ko ini da. sige, muundang na ko sa tb kay wa man ko computer sa amo! LOL

bitaw! everyday, mag overstay ko sa office until 630 pm nga unta 430 ra mi taman. wa ko magclaim ug overtime. wa sad ko meal allowance ha.

all in the spirit of public service.

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Re: Corruption in RP? Blame the Church
« Reply #16 on: January 13, 2009, 09:03:16 AM »
hahahha offsetting diay ni calle ba?  naay debit ug credit.   ;D

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TOPAC

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Re: Corruption in RP? Blame the Church
« Reply #17 on: January 13, 2009, 12:35:50 PM »
The easiest thing in the world to do is to blame corruption on those institutions perceived to be primarily responsible for the morals of a society, namely, the churches and the schools. This attitude exaggerates the role of priests and teachers as determinants of the everyday conduct of individuals in the modern world. Why not blame the family instead, where one’s basic values are first learned? Or the mass media, which today command an ever-growing share of people’s time? Or, the leaders of government for failing to set an example of honorable conduct?

“We were the only Catholic country in Asia for 400 years. Please ask the bishops why we are the most corrupt nation. That should answer everything,” Rep. Rodolfo Albano III of Isabela province said in a glib retort to Archbishop Angel Lagdameo’s recent lament over the Philippines’ shameful reputation as the most corrupt nation in Asia.

The truth of the matter is that blaming the churches explains nothing. All over the modern world, the influence of churches has become more restricted. To the extent that they offer a sense of community, they may continue to be filled with church-goers. But, almost everywhere, churches have found themselves relinquishing their comprehensive hold on the lives of their members.

This is more than just a crisis of the churches. It signifies the universal decline of a generalized moral code that used to bind society together. Traditional morality has long taken a backseat to modern law. The voice of conscience can now hardly be heard above the counsel of legal technicians. Thus, nowadays it hardly matters anymore that something may be immoral; all that is important is that it can be shown to be not illegal.

This reality is a natural consequence of the growing differentiation of institutions in modern society. The boundaries between law and religion, between politics and the economy, and indeed between the public and the private, are constantly being negotiated in the nation’s basic law. This process is far from being smooth however. In societies like the Philippines, the transition to modernity has been particularly troubled. Our modern institutions have failed to operate properly because of the persistence of pre-modern values nurtured by gross social disparities. In the meantime, the old brakes on conduct are fading away faster than the new institutions could take hold in a rapidly changing society. The result of this is a kind of “pay-for-play” ethos that privileges the role of money and political power in the running of society.

Obviously, corruption is not a unique affliction of our society. Just as no moral system can prevent sinfulness, so also no legal system can totally stamp out criminality. And so it should come as no surprise that one of the most brazen instances of corruption involving a government official has recently erupted in the most modern society in the world—the United States of America. This is the case of Illinois Gov. Rod Blagojevich, who has been accused of, among other things, trying to sell to the highest bidder the US Senate seat recently vacated by President-elect Barack Obama.

The activities of Blagojevich, a Democrat, have been monitored by government investigators for the last five years. Using authorized wiretaps and listening devices, agents pieced together conversations that painted a picture of this corrupt official’s unethical practice. The Washington Post reports: “As agents sat rapt at their listening posts ... the governor said he would use three criteria in filling Obama’s seat: ‘Our legal situation, our personal situation, my political situation. This decision, like every other one, needs to be based upon that. Legal. Personal. Political.’”

This is a fascinating quote. It sums up in exactly three words—legal, personal, political—the principal coordinates of a modern public official’s circumstances. The legal tells him what he can and cannot do within the limits of the law. The personal tells him what he needs to do. The political tells him what connections and resources he can deploy or leverage in order to get what he wants. Strikingly absent is any reference to what is right or wrong, or what his conscience commands him to do.

Blagojevich may be crude and brazen, and, in the words of US Attorney Patrick Fitzgerald, he may indeed have “taken us to a truly new low,” but the Blagojevich attitude toward public office is not exceptional. Many think it is the norm. Jack Shafer, who writes for the online Slate magazine, believes so: “If Illinois Gov. Rod Blagojevich is immediately guilty of anything, it’s of making overt what other politicians make covert, and doing so while the wiretaps roll.” In short, what makes him different from the others is that he got caught.

This is not as cynical as it may sound—especially not in the context of Illinois politics. The governor that Blagojevich succeeded is himself in jail serving a six-year sentence for corruption. Therefore what is truly interesting about America is not that corruption has persisted, but that the corrupt do end up in jail.

For, if one looks at the matter more closely, it will be clear to anyone who cares to see that the cure for corruption in the modern world is not to be found in hortatory sermons, moral crusades, or congressional exposés, but in the dogged pursuit of evidence and the honest-to-goodness prosecution of crooks. Obviously, this is only possible if the justice system is not itself compromised.



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Re: Corruption in RP? Blame the Church
« Reply #18 on: January 13, 2009, 12:40:50 PM »
oo nga Lay, UHHHURM, AHHHHHHK! PPPPWWWWEEEEEEE!

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Re: Corruption in RP? Blame the Church
« Reply #19 on: January 13, 2009, 12:55:05 PM »
hahahha offsetting diay ni calle ba?  naay debit ug credit.   ;D

tsk tsk tsk cpa diay ka grazie? debit credit man jud. na pud ko nahibaw-an, A=L+C! LOL

ngiga da!

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Re: Corruption in RP? Blame the Church
« Reply #20 on: January 13, 2009, 02:09:00 PM »
Huy kataas sa basahon,

Pero ang akong nahinumdoman kanang corruption nag sugod na sa panahon nilang Ibarra sa El Felibusterismo? Mao bitaw to nga nahimong rebelde si Uncle Jose kay agi di na nija ma take ang deceit sa mga friars! Di ba nag sugod man na adtong panahona?

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TOPAC

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Re: Corruption in RP? Blame the Church
« Reply #21 on: January 13, 2009, 02:17:33 PM »
kinawat na naho mdb from a broadsheet. ako man to giapil ia name, nawa man pag paste na nako. anyway, the above article was written by Mr. Randy David, one of my favorite columnist in the Philippine Daily Inquirer along with Justice Isagani Cruz, Chief Justice Panganiban and Conrado de Quiros. Na pa diay si Michael Tan.

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Re: Corruption in RP? Blame the Church
« Reply #22 on: January 13, 2009, 02:36:03 PM »
I also like Mr. Randy David, calle.  Cool kaayo sya ba?  If mag report, you can't see in him na i sensationalize ang news. 

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Re: Corruption in RP? Blame the Church
« Reply #23 on: January 13, 2009, 05:34:25 PM »
sociologist man gud grazie mao kabalo mulugar.

mura syag soft spoken paminawn nga dili. hehe

very down to earth.

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Re: Corruption in RP? Blame the Church
« Reply #24 on: January 14, 2009, 04:55:34 PM »
Miss Dabs, ang corruption sugod pa nila ni Adan ug Eba. Gi corrupt si Adan!

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Re: Corruption in RP? Blame the Church
« Reply #25 on: January 22, 2009, 12:29:42 AM »
corruption, pasanginlan ang simbahan (kono0
UG population explosion, simbahan gihapon girombo.
unsa na kaha poy sunod...


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A Layman

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Re: Corruption in RP? Blame the Church
« Reply #26 on: January 22, 2009, 08:20:58 AM »
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Re: Corruption in RP? Blame the Church
« Reply #27 on: January 23, 2009, 01:00:45 AM »
asuss.. let's blame ourselves. it's like instead of reporting it to DFA or proper authorities, nganu mubayad naman lang ta sa mga under the table systema sa airport? hmm...

mas dali man gud. really. you only whine on corruption kung ikaw biktima..

pro ug dili ka biktima... hilum hilum ang show :)



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Re: Corruption in RP? Blame the Church
« Reply #28 on: January 23, 2009, 03:48:39 AM »
mas sayon man lagi ning naay itunong sa tudlo, matud nila pa. mao na naay pasumanginlan.

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Re: Corruption in RP? Blame the Church
« Reply #29 on: January 23, 2009, 02:05:26 PM »
I think it is best to examine ourselves first, our methodologies, our own personal practices, our own faults BEFORE we blame and point the finger on others.

It's always easier to blame than to accept fault.

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TOPAC

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Re: Corruption in RP? Blame the Church
« Reply #30 on: January 23, 2009, 02:28:08 PM »
mao jud. ingun bitaw sila, everytime we point a finger to someone, remember nga tulo usab ka tudlo ang nagpoint sa imuha.

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Brownman

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Re: Corruption in RP? Blame the Church
« Reply #31 on: January 23, 2009, 03:33:41 PM »
amen! as the saying goes " no body is perfect except si perfecto " we should always examine ourself first before giving comments to other's, basin naay buling sa atung nawung unya manaway ta sa uban, ulaw sad

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Re: Corruption in RP? Blame the Church
« Reply #32 on: January 23, 2009, 11:41:51 PM »
:) The Spirit of the Holy Spirit is in this thread. :)

Peace to all Filipinos, and To His One Church. And remember, not even the gates of Hell can touch the Church.

Promised na by our Lord, Jesus Christ.

Be confident, my brothers and sisters.


Lorenzo,

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Re: Corruption in RP? Blame the Church
« Reply #33 on: January 24, 2009, 02:15:08 AM »
amen! as the saying goes " no body is perfect except si perfecto " we should always examine ourself first before giving comments to other's, basin naay buling sa atung nawung unya manaway ta sa uban, ulaw sad

perfecto ra ba ngalan akong daddy..lol

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TOPAC

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Re: Corruption in RP? Blame the Church
« Reply #34 on: January 26, 2009, 03:40:19 PM »
social ha, daddy-daddy man diay ning ungoya. LOL

haja haja nis glacier kay perfect man ug dad.

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Re: Corruption in RP? Blame the Church
« Reply #35 on: January 26, 2009, 04:44:59 PM »
they say practice makes perfect....
but no body is perect.....
so why practice...... hehehe
               
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Re: Corruption in RP? Blame the Church
« Reply #36 on: January 26, 2009, 06:35:37 PM »
Corruption is rampant in government offices. It is a practice by which a person uses his office or authority in pursuit of selfish interest to benefit his ownself and his nearest family. Where is the church there to blame?

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Re: Corruption in RP? Blame the Church
« Reply #37 on: January 27, 2009, 10:39:17 AM »
Corruption is rampant in government offices. It is a practice by which a person uses his office or authority in pursuit of selfish interest to benefit his ownself and his nearest family. Where is the church there to blame?

in our office, kunti lang.

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A Layman

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Re: Corruption in RP? Blame the Church
« Reply #38 on: January 27, 2009, 11:49:48 AM »
Kunti...kuntener Cal ang uban...LOL

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Re: Corruption in RP? Blame the Church
« Reply #39 on: January 27, 2009, 12:18:51 PM »
they say practice makes perfect....
but no body is perect.....
so why practice...... hehehe
               
                         -  ay-ay de las alas

This keeps me thinking, Buwad... ::) 

 ;D

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Re: Corruption in RP? Blame the Church
« Reply #40 on: January 27, 2009, 12:39:33 PM »
LOL

kung ingun-ana layman, basin amoa kinabo lang.

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A Layman

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Re: Corruption in RP? Blame the Church
« Reply #41 on: January 27, 2009, 01:31:08 PM »
Kinabo as in kinabo-lokan? LOL! Just kidding Cal. No offense meant!

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Re: Corruption in RP? Blame the Church
« Reply #42 on: January 27, 2009, 02:16:40 PM »
No prob bro. tinoud man sad gyud nga naay mga ingun-ana nga mga nahitabo diri sa office.


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Re: Corruption in RP? Blame the Church
« Reply #43 on: January 28, 2009, 09:57:33 AM »
at least, sayon ra na solbaron kay gamay ra man

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Re: Corruption in RP? Blame the Church
« Reply #44 on: January 28, 2009, 11:28:22 AM »
we are already implementing policies that had been overlooked the past years specially on the part of our field officers who are very prone to these things. thanks God, they are very cooperative. it is in them that we can truly find the idealism and dynamism of youth. looking at them, i know that this country has a better future. (im working in a government agency that is managed like a private corporation)

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Re: Corruption in RP? Blame the Church
« Reply #45 on: January 30, 2009, 01:08:54 PM »
Something that always amazes me about about governmental agencies:

Is the characteristic in blaming the past administration for present mistakes and or other agencies.

If there is corruption in the political structure, the blame belongs to the elected officials under whose tenure--such corruption occurs and manifests itself.

Responsibility belongs to those who are in power.



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Re: Corruption in RP? Blame the Church
« Reply #46 on: January 31, 2009, 12:11:29 PM »
we are already implementing policies that had been overlooked the past years specially on the part of our field officers who are very prone to these things. thanks God, they are very cooperative. it is in them that we can truly find the idealism and dynamism of youth. looking at them, i know that this country has a better future. (im working in a government agency that is managed like a private corporation)

bravo!

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Re: Corruption in RP? Blame the Church
« Reply #47 on: February 02, 2009, 07:20:27 PM »
we are already implementing policies that had been overlooked the past years specially on the part of our field officers who are very prone to these things. thanks God, they are very cooperative. it is in them that we can truly find the idealism and dynamism of youth. looking at them, i know that this country has a better future. (im working in a government agency that is managed like a private corporation)

This is a good sign worth emulating! Better late than ever.

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Re: Corruption in RP? Blame the Church
« Reply #48 on: February 05, 2009, 11:38:17 AM »
amo daris Manila North Tollways Corporation gi grasyahan kos Ginoo kay mga tarong mga tawo dari unja trqansparent ang tanang transaction labinas bidding sa project.

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Re: Corruption in RP? Blame the Church
« Reply #49 on: February 05, 2009, 11:48:05 AM »
wow, buwad. maayo ning balitaa.

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Re: Corruption in RP? Blame the Church
« Reply #50 on: February 05, 2009, 02:59:01 PM »

Sus! Kamong tanan akong gibasa wa diay mo makahibaw ug asa ang "corruption" sa simbahan. Kanang kolekta kada misa labi na sa Dominggo, kanang pagbaligya ug mga santo nga antik ngadto sa mga "antique collectors" wa intao'y hanaw ang katawhan, mga rebulto nga garing [ivory] sa inyong mga simbahan nangawa na, alahas sa mga santos nga pagatawgon ug "heirloom" gipamaligya, mga bulawan nga kalis gamit sa misa ug uban nga mahunahunaan ninjo. 

Salamat!

WN

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Re: Corruption in RP? Blame the Church
« Reply #51 on: February 05, 2009, 09:10:38 PM »
hehehe...unsa man diay gibuhat sa kolekta, Way?

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Re: Corruption in RP? Blame the Church
« Reply #52 on: February 05, 2009, 09:26:40 PM »
Giitsas langit aron dawaton sa ginoo, unya niingon ang pari, "Lord, kuhaa ang para kanimo ug ang tanan nga mahulog sa yuta akoa na!" LOL

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Re: Corruption in RP? Blame the Church
« Reply #53 on: February 06, 2009, 01:21:28 AM »
Kadugay na anang hitaboa nga gipamaligya nang mga santos ug uban pa. Hangtud karon wa pa diay na mahurot? gamay pa akong pikas dalungaan ani. Kanang koleksyon dili man lang kay mga Katolico lang ang nag praktis ana. Hasta usab ang uban nga mga relehiyon ug uban pang kanasuran. Gawas pa dili man kana pugsanay.

Sus! Kamong tanan akong gibasa wa diay mo makahibaw ug asa ang "corruption" sa simbahan. Kanang kolekta kada misa labi na sa Dominggo, kanang pagbaligya ug mga santo nga antik ngadto sa mga "antique collectors" wa intao'y hanaw ang katawhan, mga rebulto nga garing [ivory] sa inyong mga simbahan nangawa na, alahas sa mga santos nga pagatawgon ug "heirloom" gipamaligya, mga bulawan nga kalis gamit sa misa ug uban nga mahunahunaan ninjo. 

Salamat!

WN

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Re: Corruption in RP? Blame the Church
« Reply #54 on: February 06, 2009, 02:18:20 AM »
wa na roy pamaligya kay naa nay Heritage Commission nga nag-atong aning mga antigo sa simbahan
kawat noon sa mga debolto, sige pa na.


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Re: Corruption in RP? Blame the Church
« Reply #55 on: February 06, 2009, 02:28:27 AM »
corruptions starts at home (hehe underground movement anyone?)

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Re: Corruption in RP? Blame the Church
« Reply #56 on: February 06, 2009, 02:48:48 AM »
corruptions starts at home (hehe underground movement anyone?)

mag-paligid og humay, daghan na sa amoa hahaha

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Re: Corruption in RP? Blame the Church
« Reply #57 on: February 07, 2009, 12:17:31 AM »
Sus! Kamong tanan akong gibasa wa diay mo makahibaw ug asa ang "corruption" sa simbahan. Kanang kolekta kada misa labi na sa Dominggo, kanang pagbaligya ug mga santo nga antik ngadto sa mga "antique collectors" wa intao'y hanaw ang katawhan, mga rebulto nga garing [ivory] sa inyong mga simbahan nangawa na, alahas sa mga santos nga pagatawgon ug "heirloom" gipamaligya, mga bulawan nga kalis gamit sa misa ug uban nga mahunahunaan ninjo. 

Salamat!

WN

Way Nada,

That is all but heresay. I am active in church as a Eucharistic Minister on Sundays and at times a Minister of the Word, if called by my priest to volunteer. Now I may not be so well versed in the prerogatives of the Church, but I do know, from strong friendships and activity in my local church, church in college and back home in NJ, that the donations collected from mass are divided equally. A portion is set aside for charitable organizations headed by the Church (and the list of these are expansive/numerous), some are set for maintenance of the church (ergo, cost of electricity, electric fans, water, cleaning etc), and some are sent to the Vatican for the training of priests, nuns, monks, for the maintenance of the thousands upon thousands of Catholic Seminaries,  Roman Catholic Institutions, Orphanages, Colleges, Private Schools, Health Care of priests and other individuals of the Cloth.

Defilement of the Host of Christ, religious ornaments fortwith antagonistic to the teachings to THE CHURCH (per se stealing of statues, defilment etc) are grounds for Total Anathema/ Excommunication.

Such actions you mentioned are propagated by vagrants, satanists etc. Not by the Church nor by those who are active members to Christ's Established Church on Earth. THE ROMAN CATHOLIC CHURCH, founded on basis of PETER (THE ROCK/PETROS)



Thank You :)

In His Name,
Lorenzo

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Re: Corruption in RP? Blame the Church
« Reply #58 on: February 07, 2009, 12:24:57 AM »
Sus! Kamong tanan akong gibasa wa diay mo makahibaw ug asa ang "corruption" sa simbahan. Kanang kolekta kada misa labi na sa Dominggo, kanang pagbaligya ug mga santo nga antik ngadto sa mga "antique collectors" wa intao'y hanaw ang katawhan, mga rebulto nga garing [ivory] sa inyong mga simbahan nangawa na, alahas sa mga santos nga pagatawgon ug "heirloom" gipamaligya, mga bulawan nga kalis gamit sa misa ug uban nga mahunahunaan ninjo. 

Salamat!

WN


This might be true. pero di ko mo judge...naa ra na nila.

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Re: Corruption in RP? Blame the Church
« Reply #59 on: February 07, 2009, 12:34:32 AM »
we dont know which place or church he/she is talking about too..

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Re: Corruption in RP? Blame the Church
« Reply #60 on: February 07, 2009, 04:08:59 AM »
It is all hearsay. No basis for it aside to insinuate.

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Re: Corruption in RP? Blame the Church
« Reply #61 on: February 16, 2009, 06:15:28 PM »
It is all hearsay. No basis for it aside to insinuate.

sakto ka dong. its all chismis. sa valencia daghan pud kawat pero never na involve ang mga priests.

aw, controversial diay tong pagbaligja sa atong lingganay dong enzo. kalipat ko unsa to nahitabo adto.



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Re: Corruption in RP? Blame the Church
« Reply #62 on: February 16, 2009, 08:51:25 PM »
The corruption in the Philippines (which is a "Catholic" country per se) is not a failure of the church itself because if we will try to look unto it, the church and the state is separated (although the extent of sepparation is not as high as in the U.S.A.).

If we would only look at the other side of the issue, everything rooted from  education itself. Even if religion is responsible in developing the moral attributes of every member, the government still has the highest responsibility of developing morally upright citizens.

However, the system of education provided by the country gives less importance to values education because the development of the students' cognitive skills are of the highest importance. Looking back in my basic education years, Values Education is not a big deal for us and it has been shown over and over again. We were given books for other subjects but not for values education although there were times wherein we enjoyed some values books but they were obviously of less "value" than the other books. Students would rather choose to fail in Values Education (because the credit is lesser/ sometimes it's 0 credit) than in Science, English or Mathematics.

In addition to, most Values Education teachers are teaching values as their extra subject and most of the times, there are no Values Education specialists unlike Math, Science, English and others. The government should have realized that Values Education is not something that would be taken for granted or would be given less importance.

And now, where's the root?



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Re: Corruption in RP? Blame the Church
« Reply #63 on: February 20, 2009, 06:45:46 PM »
Catholic Church money was used by the Japs in making war material last WW II. This is a fact...Unsaon tawo man lang gud ta...

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Re: Corruption in RP? Blame the Church
« Reply #64 on: February 21, 2009, 01:02:07 AM »
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Re: Corruption in RP? Blame the Church
« Reply #65 on: February 21, 2009, 09:55:59 AM »
Catholic Church money was used by the Japs in making war material last WW II. This is a fact...Unsaon tawo man lang gud ta...

basin og gipugos pod tong Simbahan atong panahona, gyera baya. hostile pod kaayo ang mga japon.

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Re: Corruption in RP? Blame the Church
« Reply #66 on: February 23, 2009, 08:46:05 AM »
Catholic Church money was used by the Japs in making war material last WW II. This is a fact...Unsaon tawo man lang gud ta...

dis-a man pud ka nakapangahoy ining balitaa buwad?

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:-)

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Re: Corruption in RP? Blame the Church
« Reply #67 on: February 23, 2009, 09:16:12 AM »
The corruption in the Philippines (which is a "Catholic" country per se) is not a failure of the church itself because if we will try to look unto it, the church and the state is separated (although the extent of sepparation is not as high as in the U.S.A.).

If we would only look at the other side of the issue, everything rooted from  education itself. Even if religion is responsible in developing the moral attributes of every member, the government still has the highest responsibility of developing morally upright citizens.

However, the system of education provided by the country gives less importance to values education because the development of the students' cognitive skills are of the highest importance. Looking back in my basic education years, Values Education is not a big deal for us and it has been shown over and over again. We were given books for other subjects but not for values education although there were times wherein we enjoyed some values books but they were obviously of less "value" than the other books. Students would rather choose to fail in Values Education (because the credit is lesser/ sometimes it's 0 credit) than in Science, English or Mathematics.

In addition to, most Values Education teachers are teaching values as their extra subject and most of the times, there are no Values Education specialists unlike Math, Science, English and others. The government should have realized that Values Education is not something that would be taken for granted or would be given less importance.

And now, where's the root?



(Hand Salute and Bow)

Well said, good Sir.

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Re: Corruption in RP? Blame the Church
« Reply #68 on: February 23, 2009, 12:53:34 PM »
ingon akongg lolo calls! hehehe!

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Re: Corruption in RP? Blame the Church
« Reply #69 on: February 23, 2009, 12:56:13 PM »
oo tama values. pero ang values ron nga gipakita labina sa atong mga leaders ug na televise pa:
kawat, kickbacks, pagpamutbut bisag halata na nga namutbut, away. mao niy values ron!

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Re: Corruption in RP? Blame the Church
« Reply #70 on: February 23, 2009, 03:07:49 PM »
:-)

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Re: Corruption in RP? Blame the Church
« Reply #71 on: March 03, 2009, 02:46:08 PM »


Lorenzo,

I think you are taking the issue personally. My opinion is not dealing with what you do in church and beside I did not mention any name or priest or bishop in my posting. Why? Because it's not only priest and bishop who are responsible of the loss of church implements and ornaments. They are also stolen by church curators.

You call my opinion as hearsay or rumor because actually there is not a single priest convicted of theft and you are right. But it is common knowledge that church paraphernalia are lost because somebody stole it or the church is ransacked by robbers. Some robbers are inside the "convento" itself but they are not brought to a court of law.

Listen to this rumor! When I was a 5 year old kid I went always with my Lola twice a week to the church. My Lola was my first teacher and she used to teach me how to pray and most of all taught me to identify who are the saints inside the church niche. Two of those saints she told me were Santa Monica and Santa Filomena. I asked her; "Why is their faces look shiny and pinkish?" She answered; "because they are made of garing." "Garing" is ivory. She added that this kind of ivory comes from a fish and not from an elephant. In those days our church has 5 altars with 4 big chandeliers with one of them hanging down from the center of the church dome.  These chandeliers can match the chandeliers that are hanging in the palaces in Europe.

When the church was under renovation there were rumors that some of the church saints and implements are to be sold for the renovation of the church aside from cash contributed by the parishioners. Among them that were sold to antique collectors were the 2 saints Santa Monica and Santa Filomena, the four big chandeliers, with the 12 receptacles for holy water which are made of marble, the pipe organ, the old pulpit and many more.

Even before the renovation of the church was finished the parish priest displayed in the convento a new Impala. This parish priest is the first person who owned an Impala in the whole province. But because priests are treated with respect the people just didn't mind that maybe they think that in God's name the priest has the right to own a car.

But there are a select few who did not agree with the majority of the community and they are the people who are members of the local intelligentsia like my uncle who was once a judge and another member of the bar who became the CFI judge of Cebu. Much of the rumors originated from these kind of people on how a priest with poor family background can own an Impala and I don't think they can be called vagrants or satanists. When I returned to my town the rumors about who bought the 4 chandeliers still persist. I learned now that the chandeliers are owned by the segioun Reyna family of Manila.

If you want to learn more about corruption in the church try to go to the museum in Baclayon and make your own research.

WN 

 

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Re: Corruption in RP? Blame the Church
« Reply #72 on: March 03, 2009, 09:41:51 PM »
unsa man diay corruption makit-an sa museum sa baclayon? nga antiques man tua didto.

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Re: Corruption in RP? Blame the Church
« Reply #73 on: March 03, 2009, 10:05:40 PM »
It's no longer surprising nowadays that most churchmen, priests in particular are now living in luxury in contrast with their vow of 'poverty and sacrifice' nil with material things and ambition. Common sightings are priests assigned in urban areas.

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Re: Corruption in RP? Blame the Church
« Reply #74 on: March 04, 2009, 11:33:27 AM »
unsa man diay corruption makit-an sa museum sa baclayon? nga antiques man tua didto.

Glacier,

Kung moadto ka sa Baclayon Museum makakita ka ug duha ka "treasure chest" nga puro wa'y sud. Ug magsukit-sukit ka sa curator kung unsay purpose anang duha ka baul o kaban... ang curator kung nakahibaw motubag nimo nga mao nay sudlanan sa mga alahas sa Birhen. Ako sa bata pa mamista sa Baclayon ug mosimba mahinumdum ko nga ang Birhen diha kwentas nga perlas nga hangtud sa sa iyang tiil ang gitas-on ug dihay iyang korona nga mga diamante ug brilliante. Boot pasabot nako ini nga kanang duha ka kaban napuro alahas sa Birhen ang sud sa unang panahon.

WN

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Re: Corruption in RP? Blame the Church
« Reply #75 on: March 04, 2009, 11:46:05 AM »
Glacier,

Kung moadto ka sa Baclayon Museum makakita ka ug duha ka "treasure chest" nga puro wa'y sud. Ug magsukit-sukit ka sa curator kung unsay purpose anang duha ka baul o kaban... ang curator kung nakahibaw motubag nimo nga mao nay sudlanan sa mga alahas sa Birhen. Ako sa bata pa mamista sa Baclayon ug mosimba mahinumdum ko nga ang Birhen diha kwentas nga perlas nga hangtud sa sa iyang tiil ang gitas-on ug dihay iyang korona nga mga diamante ug brilliante. Boot pasabot nako ini nga kanang duha ka kaban napuro alahas sa Birhen ang sud sa unang panahon.

WN

ah ok. unya bay, kabalo ang curator unsay sulod ug pila tong mga alahas nga tua tanan sa chest?

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Re: Corruption in RP? Blame the Church
« Reply #76 on: March 04, 2009, 11:54:10 AM »
ah ok. unya bay, kabalo ang curator unsay sulod ug pila tong mga alahas nga tua tanan sa chest?

Unsaon man pagkahibaw sa curator ug pila tong mga alahas nga wa na may sud ang "treasure chest"? Hehe....

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Re: Corruption in RP? Blame the Church
« Reply #77 on: March 04, 2009, 11:55:54 AM »
Unsaon man pagkahibaw sa curator ug pila tong mga alahas nga wa na may sud ang "treasure chest"? Hehe....

hahahaha, daw be, og wa na jud toy sulod diay sukad pa sa una. nakabalita man ko diha nga gipangkawat ang ubang mga alahas, di ba?

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Re: Corruption in RP? Blame the Church
« Reply #78 on: March 04, 2009, 12:00:55 PM »
hahahaha, daw be, og wa na jud toy sulod diay sukad pa sa una. nakabalita man ko diha nga gipangkawat ang ubang mga alahas, di ba?

Dili sukad sa una wa'y sud kundi kumpormi ko nga moingon ka nga gipangkawat ang ubang mga alahas. Di ba? Asa mang ka sa Cagayan de Oro? Nakapuyo ko sa Licoan sa una.

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Re: Corruption in RP? Blame the Church
« Reply #79 on: March 04, 2009, 12:09:52 PM »
Dili sukad sa una wa'y sud kundi kumpormi ko nga moingon ka nga gipangkawat ang ubang mga alahas. Di ba? Asa mang ka sa Cagayan de Oro? Nakapuyo ko sa Licoan sa una.

daghan man ang hinungdan, bay WN, nga mawa ang usa ka butang: naguba, gilabay, gibaligya, gikawat o kikotkot.

bohol, ko WN. ngano man diay, unsa may naas sa Licoan?  ;D ;D ;D

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Re: Corruption in RP? Blame the Church
« Reply #80 on: March 04, 2009, 12:29:39 PM »
daghan man ang hinungdan, bay WN, nga mawa ang usa ka butang: naguba, gilabay, gibaligya, gikawat o kikotkot.

bohol, ko WN. ngano man diay, unsa may naas sa Licoan?  ;D ;D ;D

Sakto ka! Daghan hinungdan nga mawa ang usa ka butang pero ako hing uyon lang ko sa imong pung nga; "gipangkawat ang ubang mga alahas". Tungod pud sa usa ka butang dugang sa imong sulti nga; dihay tawo nga "convicted of theft" bahin ining mga butanga.

Taga Bohol ka pero nagpuyo na tingali ka dugay sa Cagayan. Mailhan nako kay nakapuyo pud ko sa Cagayan. Kanang pung nga; "daw be ug kabalo" diha nako mahibaw-i sa Cagayan.

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Re: Corruption in RP? Blame the Church
« Reply #81 on: March 04, 2009, 01:08:22 PM »
Let's all stop this blame game because this is the very reason why we couldn't move towards progress. Instead of thinking of solutions to solve this "corruption problem" in our country, we stick unto finding the faults and not the way to correct the mistakes which have been committed. If we would know that the church has a mistake, could we correct them? NO!

In my previous post in this thread (enhancing Values Education) I have stated how the government could invest on training the students to become morally upright citizens which I think the wisest way to solve the problems we are facing right now. Let's not sit in a corner and say that the Philippines has no hope because the government is like this and like that and the church is like this and like that. As long as we are alive, we can contribute something for the betterment of our country. However, we could not contribute something which we don't have. We could not satisfy others without satisfying ourselves first -- this is a universal imperative.

Yes, I know in my mind and in my heart what's the best thing to do. I know that the Philippines will have a brighter future if each citizen possesses right values and attitude to govern their lives and not to govern other people's lives. I know that this is the best thing to do but I am not doing it right now because I left my country in exchange of what I called greener pasture. Instead of training my own countrymen, I am training other citizens to realize their fullest potential. However, I do not feel guilty about it because I know that I am doing it, first, for myself. I do understand that I could not gratify others' needs and wants without gratifying my needs first.

I know I can do it but I have to do it in myself first before I would do it for others.


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buwadsanga

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Re: Corruption in RP? Blame the Church
« Reply #82 on: March 04, 2009, 01:44:54 PM »
dis is ridikyulus! wa na tawoy mapasanginlan.

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Re: Corruption in RP? Blame the Church
« Reply #83 on: March 05, 2009, 12:18:02 AM »
Sakto ka! Daghan hinungdan nga mawa ang usa ka butang pero ako hing uyon lang ko sa imong pung nga; "gipangkawat ang ubang mga alahas". Tungod pud sa usa ka butang dugang sa imong sulti nga; dihay tawo nga "convicted of theft" bahin ining mga butanga.

Taga Bohol ka pero nagpuyo na tingali ka dugay sa Cagayan. Mailhan nako kay nakapuyo pud ko sa Cagayan. Kanang pung nga; "daw be ug kabalo" diha nako mahibaw-i sa Cagayan.

nakalaag ra kos CDO bay, WN. unya ako mga igsoon tua na pod namuyo, so, nakasundog ko usahay sa ilang sinultian.

kini bitawng mga butanga, bay WN, it's like a red cape to a bull. kawatonon tungod sa ilang value.



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Re: Corruption in RP? Blame the Church
« Reply #84 on: March 05, 2009, 12:24:08 AM »
dis is ridikyulus! wa na tawoy mapasanginlan.

naa man buwad: ang k******n!

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Re: Corruption in RP? Blame the Church
« Reply #85 on: March 05, 2009, 08:19:24 AM »
ang curator sa baclayon church dugay na man nga suspect. i dont know what happened na.

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Re: Corruption in RP? Blame the Church
« Reply #86 on: March 05, 2009, 08:28:01 AM »
tama naay k******n kay lagi tawo raman ta pero ug e blame sa church di napud na ensakto.

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Re: Corruption in RP? Blame the Church
« Reply #87 on: March 05, 2009, 08:34:47 AM »
:-)

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Re: Corruption in RP? Blame the Church
« Reply #88 on: March 05, 2009, 10:36:57 AM »
Bai Buwad is correct.

Just because one individual makes a mistake does not make the entire Church, and the billions of Roman Catholics around the world make them bad.

The 'CHURCH' is not just the physical building, my friends.

The 'ROMAN CATHOLIC CHURCH' is the people. The souls that are part of the Apostolic and ONE Church.

It is unfair, and very unchristian to blame the whole group and point fingers for the mistake of one individual.

Christ warned us about individuals like that:

"Stop judging, that you may not be judged. For as you judge, so will you be judged, and the measure with which you measure will be measured out to you.
Why do you notice the splinter in your brother's eye, but do not perceive the wooden beam in your own eye? How can you say to your brother, 'Let me remove that splinter from your eye,' while the wooden beam is in your eye? You hypocrite, remove the wooden beam from your eye first; then you will see clearly to remove the splinter from your brother's eye."
-Matthew 7: 1-5

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Re: Corruption in RP? Blame the Church
« Reply #89 on: March 05, 2009, 12:42:06 PM »
:-)

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Re: Corruption in RP? Blame the Church
« Reply #90 on: March 06, 2009, 04:24:27 AM »
blamed the concerned people not the church   ;)

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Re: Corruption in RP? Blame the Church
« Reply #91 on: March 06, 2009, 11:23:18 AM »

Lorenzo opined:

"Just because one individual makes a mistake does not make the entire Church, and the billions of Roman Catholics around the world make them bad."

Reply:

You are right! One person's mistake cannot be blamed on the whole church... while saying that there is corruption in the church does not mean billions of catholics around the world are bad either but, criticism will help the church administrator how to serve their parishioner efficiently and spiritually. Unsaon man ang masulti nimo kung ikaw sige nimong makita ang kora paroko sa simbahan kalingaw gaduwa ug mahjong ug naa pa gyu'y hinuktan, aber!

If you think the church is the people therefore every individual who is a member of the parish has the right also to criticize how the running of the church is being conducted.


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Re: Corruption in RP? Blame the Church
« Reply #92 on: March 06, 2009, 12:26:59 PM »
sakto ka, WN.

mao man gani naay gitawag nga PPC or Finance Council kada parokya kono kay aron motabang sa pagpadagan sa parokya

pwede man gani tingali mo-suwat ang mga tawo sa ilang obispo kung duna jud silay reklamo bahin sa ilang pari. ako ra pod nang nadunggan sa uban.

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Re: Corruption in RP? Blame the Church
« Reply #93 on: March 06, 2009, 12:31:13 PM »
sakto ka, WN.

mao man gani naay gitawag nga PPC or Finance Council kada parokya kono kay aron motabang sa pagpadagan sa parokya

pwede man gani tingali mo-suwat ang mga tawo sa ilang obispo kung duna jud silay reklamo bahin sa ilang pari. ako ra pod nang nadunggan sa uban.

sakto ka, WN.

mao man gani naay gitawag nga PPC or Finance Council kada parokya kono kay aron motabang sa pagpadagan sa parokya

pwede man gani tingali mo-suwat ang mga tawo sa ilang obispo kung duna jud silay reklamo bahin sa ilang pari. ako ra pod nang nadunggan sa uban.

Glacier,

Tinood nang imong gisulti. Karon ang mga parokyano mahimo na moprotesta sa taas nga awtoridad sa simbahan aron mapahawa ang dili nila gusto nga pari.

WN

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Re: Corruption in RP? Blame the Church
« Reply #94 on: March 06, 2009, 12:33:22 PM »
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Re: Corruption in RP? Blame the Church
« Reply #95 on: September 17, 2010, 02:44:55 AM »
Lorenzo opined:

"Just because one individual makes a mistake does not make the entire Church, and the billions of Roman Catholics around the world make them bad."

Reply:

You are right! One person's mistake cannot be blamed on the whole church... while saying that there is corruption in the church does not mean billions of catholics around the world are bad either but, criticism will help the church administrator how to serve their parishioner efficiently and spiritually. Unsaon man ang masulti nimo kung ikaw sige nimong makita ang kora paroko sa simbahan kalingaw gaduwa ug mahjong ug naa pa gyu'y hinuktan, aber!

If you think the church is the people therefore every individual who is a member of the parish has the right also to criticize how the running of the church is being conducted.


Thank you for sharing your view, Way Nada.  You do bring up very valid and thought-provoking points.



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Lorenzo

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Re: Corruption in RP? Blame the Church
« Reply #96 on: September 17, 2010, 02:46:56 AM »
Corruption is a manifestation of a decaying moral value. Ug kana nga moral degradation makit-an nato bisan asa nga suok sa kalibutan. ug kay ang Pinoy, di man jud magpa-uwahi lagi, mao na nga kita maoy pinaka-.

We tend to point an accusing finger at each other forgetting that in the process, three fingers point in our direction. It's not only the state, it's not only the church. we all are. Mas klaro lang ang corruption diha sa gobyerno kay mao man na ang kanunay ma-highlight sa atong mga television, broadsheets, radio, etc. labi na kay we claim to be part of the institution. That is, in the spirit of "pagpakabana", we cry "foul" to these wrong doings. But aren't we part of the corrupt system.

If the mission of changing the system is a far cry, then let's do our share in our own little ways. "...it is better to light just one little candle... than curse the dark..."

Let's make today a brand new day. Let's start by knowing where we are....

ikaw empleyado - ang bondpaper ba nga imo gipagamit sa imong anak alang sa ilang project gikan ba sa supply sa imong opisina?

ikaw office driver or office chief - gigamit ba nimo ang service vehicle sa opisina paghatud-kuha nila sa imo mga anak sa school?

ikaw pulis - gigamit ba nimo ang imong position o chapa aron makakuka lag libre nga pasahe sa barko, bus o jeep?

ikaw garbage collector - wa ba nimo pabori pagkuha ang basura sa balay nga kanunay mohatag nimo og "tip"?

ikaw caminero (kamanero, etc. ) - motungha ba ka sa imong pwesto sa insaktong oras bisan walay foreman nga nagbantay?

ikaw negosyante - wa ba nimo tibhongi og tubig ang suka o tuba nga imong baligya aron madaghan?

ikaw panday - dretso-dretso ba ang imong pagpamanday, ug di na ka maglangan pagpasumangil baid-baid sa gabas ug tigib?

Ikaw tricycle driver, mihatag ba ka sa sukli nga singko sentavos sa imong pasahero?

ikaw botante - nidawat ba ka sa pila ka pesos nga bugti sa imong boto... sa way paglantaw unsa ang bugti sa umaabot?

ug kanang computer nga imong gigamit diha, di ba sa opisina man na, unja oras pa jud sa tingtrabaho nga gibayran ta?

and if you answer "yes" to any one of these questions... either we are already corrupt, or are prone to corruption.... so we need to re-align our lives a little...

Start na ta...

Beautiful Point, Tamislat.

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Lorenzo

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Re: Corruption in RP? Blame the Church
« Reply #97 on: September 17, 2010, 03:00:32 AM »
sakto ka dong. its all chismis. sa valencia daghan pud kawat pero never na involve ang mga priests.

aw, controversial diay tong pagbaligja sa atong lingganay dong enzo. kalipat ko unsa to nahitabo adto.



Tito,

Kining mga heresays , wa jamo jud ang substance ani, morag talk-talk ra jud ba so as to pass time. I have met the priest in Valencia and the women that work in the rectory and the caretakers of the church. Ning bisita galing ko sa Holy Image sa Senyor Santo Ninyo, ang ning ingoon sila kono nga ang statue sa Virgin Mary sa Eucharistic Adoration chapel, gikawat. Ang rason ani kai dili man nila gi locked ang chapel. Karon, gi locked na.

Pero for me to hear talks and reading in this thread how priests are involved in this, dili man na maajo oy. Bisan ba nay naay corruption sa uban nga diocese, dili man jud na mo represent sa entire Church, nga mo minister sa over 1.1 billion catholics in the world. Dili man intawn puydi ta mo dispense ing ana especially nga kita may mga parokyo kai laymen ra man jud ta. Ang office sa Priest ug holy religious life is a special and holy calling, dili pood fair ug mo blame nato atong mga negative actions on the office that we are talking about. Kai dili baja right. Those who have not the intention to enter religious life or can sacrifice what such a calling calls for, have no right or say in such a life. Because it is a sacrifice to begin with.

In regards to actions of vagrancy that occur in parishes around the world; that is common. There will be those who go against the preaching of the Good News, that is nothing new to the Catholic Church and our Millenial Pigrimage...



Regards.
Bran

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luckybelle

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Re: Corruption in RP? Blame the Church
« Reply #98 on: September 18, 2010, 09:16:47 PM »
Hay naku, di nalang ta magbinasulay... magbuhat nalang tag maayo ;) PEACE EVERYONE

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magbalantay

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Re: Corruption in RP? Blame the Church
« Reply #99 on: September 20, 2010, 02:12:56 AM »
Magsinumbagay na lang mo diha. Ngano man diay Katoliko ra bay corrupt? Wa bay Protestanteng corrupt? Jama jama ra man mo diha! Pwe!


   korek jud ka, sir! Why point our fingers  all the time to the catholics, alone? Ang ubang religions diay, free from corruption kintahay sila? MUOT PUD PAMINAWON! ;D ;D ;D

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