Author Topic: propose PI to become the 52nd state of US  (Read 7183 times)

oliver

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propose PI to become the 52nd state of US
« on: September 10, 2008, 10:38:16 AM »
The way our govt handling our country, is hopeless. We are deeper in the hole since, the rich are getting richer and the poor are getting poorer and hopeless. This country is run by the rich, that the majority poor are ignored and taken advantage. I say we need leadership that truly is run by the majority of the people fairly.
    Certainly the rich don't wanna change the system... but only together we can.. say your peice of mind!!

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ms da binsi

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Re: propose PI to become the 52nd state of US
« Reply #1 on: September 10, 2008, 10:39:47 AM »
America doesnt want Philippines anymore Oliver, too sad to know. I wish they will take us back.

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buwadsanga

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Re: propose PI to become the 52nd state of US
« Reply #2 on: September 10, 2008, 11:21:02 AM »
i don want america to handle our great islands!

philippines for the pilipinos even if we live like in helll   -  manuel quezon

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ms da binsi

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Re: propose PI to become the 52nd state of US
« Reply #3 on: September 10, 2008, 11:25:36 AM »
i don want america to handle our great islands!

philippines for the pilipinos even if we live like in helll   -  manuel quezon



that was a crazy statement by Maning Buwad, honest! we could have been the other Hawaii now...pero during that time madatung man ang Pinas, daghan pa natural resources (not now anymore, upaw na ang Pinas) so i dont blame  Maning for refusing the offer and saying that at all...

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buwadsanga

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Re: propose PI to become the 52nd state of US
« Reply #4 on: September 10, 2008, 02:56:52 PM »
never to american rule with their descrimination and superior race mentality. lets enjoy our God given freedom!!!! i'll fight to the death if they rule in our home islands!!!

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oliver

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Re: propose PI to become the 52nd state of US
« Reply #5 on: September 12, 2008, 10:31:33 AM »
boys and girls, yes we could be just like hawaii, to tell you the truth the japanese descriminate the whites in hawaii. I think , we are to see what hawaii is doing now a days, see for yourself and witness how the hawaiians are very much in better shape than our own.
      Let us not close our minds, if we do not know what its like. even Puerto Rico,,,, look at them, they are led by the US, come and see Puerto Rico today as a US territory.
     Yes the the upper class got it made here. But i think if we do not concerns ourselves to the poor, we are living a selfish life, blinding ourselves on what we see everyday.

 Open your eyes, do not look away when you see a child selling cigarettes on the street, when a child is trying to earn a living because the parents cant do enough..
   Sorry, i could get carried away
 

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buwadsanga

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Re: propose PI to become the 52nd state of US
« Reply #6 on: September 12, 2008, 11:54:27 AM »
good and sincere governance coupled with true correct and quality education is the answer to our present woes! not american rule. i feel i'm selling my soul to satan in your proposal!!!! people!!!

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Lorenzo

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Re: propose PI to become the 52nd state of US
« Reply #7 on: September 12, 2008, 12:41:04 PM »
This topic has already been discussed extensively.  :)

Follow the link:

http://tubagbohol.mikeligalig.com/index.php?topic=14189.0



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Lorenzo

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Re: propose PI to become the 52nd state of US
« Reply #8 on: September 12, 2008, 12:46:15 PM »
never to american rule with their descrimination and superior race mentality. lets enjoy our God given freedom!!!! i'll fight to the death if they rule in our home islands!!!

First of all, you're wrong.

As an American I find it rather obtrusive for you to refer to such generalizations. The United States is not a homogeneous nation of only one race; rather it is a heterogeneous nation. Composed of many races; from Native Meso-American, African-American, White-American, varying Asian-Americans, Latin-Americans as well as the rising Mixed-Race Americans.

For one to target only some Americans of racism is not only hypocritical but nihilistic. Everyone has a natural prejudice; even the Filipino has it. Only his is worse as Filipinos discriminate even their own people.

Depending on how dark their skin is, how flat their noses are, how small or wide their eyes are, how straight or curly their hair are etc. These are clear examples of provincial cases of innate prejudices. It's natural for any people.

However, the question in mind that is being asked is the political-aspect.



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Lorenzo

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Re: propose PI to become the 52nd state of US
« Reply #9 on: September 12, 2008, 12:49:30 PM »


that was a crazy statement by Maning Buwad, honest! we could have been the other Hawaii now...pero during that time madatung man ang Pinas, daghan pa natural resources (not now anymore, upaw na ang Pinas) so i dont blame  Maning for refusing the offer and saying that at all...

Very true.

The United States once had a dream of making the Philippines into a territorial protectorate, ultimately becoming a state back in the early 20th century. However, the anti-imperialist league within Congress, supported by men such as Quezon defeated such notions of Philippine dependency on the United States.

Which, in my opinion, was a false dream. As even today; the country is still dependent on the United States for not only military, but economic as well as the political.

The United States has termed Philippine Politics as 'Chronically Flawed'.

This is why the United States will hesitate taking on the Philippines into its own fold. The US, right now, is having problems taking care of 300 million of its own citizenry; let alone an extra 90+ million. Realistically, it won't happen. Historically, it could have happened.


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Lorenzo

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Re: propose PI to become the 52nd state of US
« Reply #10 on: September 12, 2008, 01:03:20 PM »
To reinforce my post in addressing Buwad's statement:


It is also important to note that the United States is the only nation in the world to have initiated legal and litigations to reinforce and uphold the equality and egalitarianism of its citizenry in force and actually set precedent on the matter in the international spectrum; ranging from peaceful demonstrations by civil leaders such as Dr. Martin Luther King Jr, who with his supporters led precedent and actually impacted the Judiciary in the United States by ending the Jim Crow Laws of Racial Segregation in Schools, and Civil Areas. The United States has progressed and led the world in securing racial advantages, especially for races that are underprivileged by providing a mechanism that is called Affirmative Action; to ensure that enough percentages of African Americans, as well as Latin Americans and even some Asian Americans are given the chance to attend and take university spots as well as work positions. This mechanism was put in place to better the chances of living of said racial groups as they compete for work and lifestyle against the more numerous Caucasian-Americans (who make up 70+% of the population).

On a side mark, tho, I personally am against Affirmative Action as I believe that everyone should have equal footing; and not be given special privileges based on one's race. No one should be given a handicap label.

And again, here in the United States, the society is very sensitive to racial words as well as prejudicial actions, which if confirmed, will warrant the termination of one's position in work and even degrade one's personal and professional reputation. Here in the United States there is an abundance of trial lawyers who will take to court those who are guilty of racial discrimination; so there really is no big threat of racists here that much. It's one of those things people have but don't talk about.






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Lorenzo

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Re: propose PI to become the 52nd state of US
« Reply #11 on: September 12, 2008, 01:51:54 PM »
never to american rule with their descrimination and superior race mentality. lets enjoy our God given freedom!!!! i'll fight to the death if they rule in our home islands!!!

Buwad,

When the Japanese invaded the Philippines and took over in 1942; and initiated a brutal regime in the country, did anyone else help?

Did China come to the aid of the Philippines? Did Australia? Did Britain? Did Spain? Did Russia? Did France?

The United States invaded the Philippines in 1944; launching the Largest Naval-based Invasion in the History of the Human Race to retake our islands.

They didn't have to take our islands; as they could have just skipped it and starved the Japanese as they did in Rabaul. In fact, many American strategists wanted to skip the Philippines due to the high presence of Japanese troops in the islands (over 300,000 stationed in defense). Any calculated invasion of Japanese-occupied Philippines would equate to tens of thousands of American lives lost in the recapture of the Philippine Archipelago.

The AMERICANS didn't have to do it. But they DID anyway.

Because General Douglas McArthur, who was adamant about going back to the Philippines, pleaded with the General Staff to take the Philippines; bearing in mind his speech  2 years prior of , "I Shall Return".

The United States lost hundreds of its planes, dozens of its ships to kamikaze attacks as well as tens of thousands of its boys in taking Philippine islands by island. From Bohol to Mindanao, to Cebu, to Negros, Leyte, and the heartland--Luzon.

That demonstrates the American Spirit. You understand?
The fact that they DIDN'T have to invade or liberate the RP. I mean, logically it would have been better for them had they not as it would have reduced their own losses. In terms of man power, ships, planes, etc.

But the fact that they DID recapture the Philippines says something. :)

And independence was given in 1946, as planned. Despite the Japanese invasion some 4 years prior. :)


Think about it.

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Lorenzo

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Re: propose PI to become the 52nd state of US
« Reply #12 on: September 13, 2008, 03:55:27 AM »
The way our govt handling our country, is hopeless. We are deeper in the hole since, the rich are getting richer and the poor are getting poorer and hopeless. This country is run by the rich, that the majority poor are ignored and taken advantage. I say we need leadership that truly is run by the majority of the people fairly.
    Certainly the rich don't wanna change the system... but only together we can.. say your peice of mind!!

Oliver,

What you say is true. The corruption in the government of this country (Philippines) is rampant; stemming not only in the executive, legislative, judicial; but to the regional and even local level.

I've pondered the reasons why the Philippines didnt choose to accept territoriality with the United States in the past; but history shows us that it was the nationalism of the country during the early 20th century that ultimately played a role in securing of independence. Which, from their point of view, does make sense.

In their view, it was necessary to liberate the country from colonial control; one that has pragmatized the Archipelago since Hispanidad of the early 16th century to the 20th century.

Currently, the United States has no wish to integrate the Philippines into its control. America, at this moment, cannot afford to provide for an additional 90 million people. Additionally, there are forces within the American society that are against imperialism and further expanding American interests abroad. Annexing the Philippines would be a political as well as diplomatic nightmare for the United States. As America would be accused by the world for Imperialistic ambitions.

The United States is a champion and proponent of globalization; where there no longer is a need to take over a nation; as trade, commerce, and communication can be exchanged at a whim.

The Philippines and its people must rescue itself from the quagmire that it is in.

Cheers,

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kiamoy

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Re: propose PI to become the 52nd state of US
« Reply #13 on: September 13, 2008, 04:02:26 AM »
it is okay for me if we were to be like hawaii...
haii..

and oh..Japanese don't need visas to go to US or any other country.. truE?

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buwadsanga

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Re: propose PI to become the 52nd state of US
« Reply #14 on: September 13, 2008, 07:33:31 AM »
never! never! i'l fight to the death like our forefathers did! no way!

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Lorenzo

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Re: propose PI to become the 52nd state of US
« Reply #15 on: September 13, 2008, 07:36:06 AM »
it is okay for me if we were to be like hawaii...
haii..

and oh..Japanese don't need visas to go to US or any other country.. truE?

Yup, this is true.

Japanese don't need it to visit the US because Japan is part of the US VISA Waiver Program.

The United States and Japan are close strategic partners. :)

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Lorenzo

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Re: propose PI to become the 52nd state of US
« Reply #16 on: September 13, 2008, 07:37:33 AM »
never! never! i'l fight to the death like our forefathers did! no way!

Buwad,

I'd like to know some reasons why not.

Interested lang ko to hear your point of view.

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L1Technician

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Re: propose PI to become the 52nd state of US
« Reply #17 on: September 13, 2008, 10:24:31 AM »
The rise of the United States to the rank of a coercitive superpower is a synthesis of supremacist ideologies and practices. Slavery, settler colonialism, imperialist diktats, military interventionism, organized military coupes in developing countries, mass destruction, financial piracy of foreign funds deposited in American banks, blackmail and blatant robberies of the wealth of nations as in Iraq, Libya, Kuwait and Saudi Arabia. We already have the freedom and our heroes fought for it. America is not the solution to solve the corruption in this country.

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Lorenzo

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Re: propose PI to become the 52nd state of US
« Reply #18 on: September 14, 2008, 08:04:40 PM »
The rise of the United States to the rank of a coercitive superpower is a synthesis of supremacist ideologies and practices. Slavery, settler colonialism, imperialist diktats, military interventionism, organized military coupes in developing countries, mass destruction, financial piracy of foreign funds deposited in American banks, blackmail and blatant robberies of the wealth of nations as in Iraq, Libya, Kuwait and Saudi Arabia. We already have the freedom and our heroes fought for it. America is not the solution to solve the corruption in this country.

Good point L1tech,

However the rise of any state revolves on the need of the given state to defeat an enemy or states, at that. America is not the one that set the precedent, on the contrary the United States follows natural law. As a bear overpowers and defeats competitor predators such as wolves and mountain lions for the given resources in his or her domain. The same as a lion must outcompete his competitors, the hyena, the jackal, the leopard, and other lions in order to protect and acquire resources for survival. What about the powers of the classical epoch such as the British Empire, the French Empire, the Spanish Empire? Did they not colonize continents and spread their seed to produce and attain resources for the mother state? The United States, in actuality, was a colony of the British Empire, set up by the British Empire in order to reduce the congestion of the English mainland as well as to proliferate British seed into the new world as to acquire not only tobacco, but cotton, timber, wheat, coal, fur, etc to be exported back to the mother state as well as to trade with other powers, thereby facilitaitng the growth of not only the mother state's economy, but the growth of the colony itself. Its based on the concept of survivalism; one must overpower his or her competitors and enemies in order to survive. One cannot blame the United States for His Manifest Destiny. He inherited his supremacist ideals and positive outlook not from himself, but from His colonizer. The United States, afterall, is a colony and its original colonists were decedents of the British Empire. That come from Anglo-Saxon stock. And we know that the British ruled the largest empire in the world, controlling over 1/4th of the world's land mass.

The United States, freed itself from British yolk in 1776, but didn't totally eradicate its British roots. And the American Psyche of Manifest Destiny comes from primordial British notion of Supremacy. The child inherits traits from the mother, so to say.

What about the Romans? Didn't they utilize settler colonialism (throughout Europe, Africa and Asia Minor), didn't they use military intervention to champion their own cause (Roman-Etruscan Wars, the Punic Wars, the Thracio-Roman Wars, Roman-Gaulic Wars, Roman-Germanic Wars, Roman-Hispanola Wars, Roman-Dacian Wars etc). Every power, in the history of man kind has initiated wars to champion its own cause for the benefit of its own people, L1Tech.

Every nation, every state, every republic, monarchy, empire etc whatever you  want to call their political system, will champion a cause that is beneficial to their own interests. Either you be Filipino, Chinese, French, American, Russian, Japanese, Mexican etc. No nation in this world wants to be dependent, no nation in this world wants to langour in desolate isolationism. That's the point I want to stress out.

Just as humans are innate born with the passion to succeed and outcompete their competitors; so too will be nation states, who are composed of millions of humans. Driven by the same instincts as the human that composes the nation state.

The United States is a proponent of globalization; money and wealth is what makes the United States keep on working. Its the definition of a pure capitalist state.

And for your information, Saudi Arabia, Kuwait and many other OPEC nations own large stocks of American interests. So this goes back to the notion you pointed out of American 'blackmail and robberies' of the wealth of nations. Considering that the United States is gorging on their oil and totally dependent on the oil they produce; the said OPEC states are actually profitting from the United States, which is the world's largest consumer of oil and petroleum. Consumes over 1/4th of the world's oil production. Strategists and analysts would go so far as to champion the antithesis of your statement. That the OPEC nations actually have their thumb and control of the United States. :)

Who ever controls the oil and natural resources, will influence the United States, which is totally dependent on the said resources for its day-to-day operation.



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Lorenzo

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Re: propose PI to become the 52nd state of US
« Reply #19 on: September 14, 2008, 08:10:27 PM »
Additionally,

Are you going to tell me that the Philippines would not champion actions and operations that were to the best interests of the nation, had it been a richer country with a more superfluous military?

I will tell you right now, given the philosophical mastery of the Filipino, his innate intelligence in the sciences and mathematics, his vehement patriotism as well as militaristic tendency, I tell you that had the Philippines been more powerful in terms of politics, military and economics, the Philippines would have already proceeded with its claims of Sabah (if not already reclaimed it from Malaysia), as well as reclaimed territories that were historically part of the Philippines during the Spanish Administration of the Islands.

The Philippines would have already claimed the Marianas Islands, Guam Island, Palau Island, the entire Spratley Chain and possibly even southern Formosa and Sabah; as these territories were historically part of the Philippines during the Spanish Administration of the Islands form the 16th century to the late 19th century.

Its called 'Historical Claimant Rights'.

Its the very basis of nation's claiming territories from other nations. And continues to this day. It all depends if that given nation has the military power to project His claims.

Am I saying that if Philippines was more powerful, that it would adopt an aggressive policy for national interests a.k.a 'Strategic Interests'. Of Course.


Yours,
Bran Lorenzo

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Lorenzo

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Re: propose PI to become the 52nd state of US
« Reply #20 on: September 14, 2008, 08:35:32 PM »
You talk of American interevention in the Middle East as something that was done by a whim. Absolutely wrong. It is the Middle East and OPEC nations that drive fuel prices throughout the world; which branches in varying politico-economico ramifications throughout the world. Their raising of oil prices could translate in riots in an African country, causing political crisis that can cause revolutions; their raising of oil prices can cause instability of a South East Asian country that is already struggling with rising rice prices as well as a rising population. Their raising of oil prices can harden the situation for American citizens who have been hit hard by the mortgage financial crisis in the 07-08 fiscal year. Their rising of oil prices can influence the debate of the need to move away from oil dependency; a debate that continues to go on in the 08 Election.

So as you see, L1tech, who actually influences global political dictum? Is it the United States or is it OPEC countries?

American intervention in the Middle East is only manifested as to secure the free flow of oil to the world; as the United States has already seen what happened when the Middle East refused to pump oil due to radical religious-political differences in the 1970s-causing the Oil Crisis that debilitated the entire Western Block as well as the struggling Free World. Even the USSR was hard hit during this time epoch.

The United States sends its carrier task groups to international waters in the Arabian Gulf as to prevent and protect oil tankers from piracy, as well as prevent hostile nations such as Iran from impeding international oil supply. Which if severed or hindered in any way, will have global repercussions. The United States, being the sole military super power and having the power to secure this free-flow of resource needs to keep the flow easy and constant because its interests throughout the world is magnanimous. It has interests (economic and military) in Europe, Asia, Africa and South America. So, naturally, any trouble in a given region will elicit American response. As a revolution, or war will impede the free-flow of Globalization. Which benefits all of man kind, not just the United States.

Remember, prior to American presence in the Middle East, were the British, the Turkish, the French and even the Germans (during Rommel's African incursion to take the oil rich middle east). The United States merely stepped up to plate (colloquially speaking) as the British Empire's military and political sway fell.

So long as there are radical islamofascists in the region that threaten Israel and American Interests, the United States will remain in the region. Indefinitely.

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Lorenzo

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Re: propose PI to become the 52nd state of US
« Reply #21 on: September 14, 2008, 08:46:57 PM »
America is not the solution to solve the corruption in this country.

I do, however, agree with this statement. As the United States has no wish to take over any nation and impede the democratic processes. The Philippines must solve its own problem, despite the profundity of the situation.

Politics will always be dirty, imho.
 

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Lorenzo

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Re: propose PI to become the 52nd state of US
« Reply #22 on: September 14, 2008, 11:11:12 PM »
it is okay for me if we were to be like hawaii...
haii..

and oh..Japanese don't need visas to go to US or any other country.. truE?

You know that during the late 19th century, the Philippines was considered 'Paris' of the East? The city of Manila under Spanish Administration was so highly modernized and westernization was so visible by Europeans who frequented the former Spanish Bastion. After Spain's relinquishing of the Islands to the United States after the Spanish-American War and subsequent brief Philippine-American War, the Philippines' growth was unprecedented.

By the early 20th century, large percentage of the population was fluent and literate in the English Language (decades earlier, most of the Filipinos were fluent and literate in Spanish; of course, given the 3 centuries it was part of the Spanish Empire).

However, in terms of economics, the Philippines' economy was superfluous. Second only to Japan during the early 20th century. We had rail cars, trains, large ports, a blossoming plantation economy, and a growing industrial economy; producing and exporting coal, timber, etc.

So many western writers and poets used to frequent Manila; as it was a romantic setting for them in the day. It was the 'Europe of Asia'.

The Philippines was decades ahead of most of its Asian neighbours such as China, Korea, Malaya, Siam, Vietnam etc who weren't well versed in the ways of the West as say the Philippines, who was and is the bastion of Christianity in Asia. Over 90% of Filipinos are Christian (a majority of whom are part of the Roman Catholic Faith; a European christian denomination).

Under the United States; the cost of living and way of life in the Philippines was higher than that of Hawaii at the time; even higher than Puerto Rico at the time.

Given our situation at the time; had the Philippines remained a territorial part of the United States; or even a protectorate, I am definitely sure that the Philippines would have been ahead of Japan, Korea, Singapore. Absolutely definite that we would be ahead of them.

Before these countries even knew how to speak or communicate with the West, the Filpinos were already being schooled in Europe! By the late 18th century, there were already Filipinos schooling in Spain, France. No Asian country can boast such education advancements. By the early 20th century; there were hundreds of Filipinos schooling and studying in the United States. No other asian country can boast it.

And even today; the Filipino-American is the 2nd largest Asian ethnicity in the United States; second only to the Chinese-Americans (given they have the numerical advantage due to the shear number of Chinese in the world) but still; it says alot.

The Philippines was poised for economic and political greatness. Given the deep relations the Archipelago has with the West and Europe.

And I believe we, as a people, can rise up. How we will do that, I don't know. But in my heart I know and I believe the Philippines can rise up.



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buwadsanga

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Re: propose PI to become the 52nd state of US
« Reply #23 on: September 15, 2008, 09:56:46 AM »
Lor,
I'll keep my point of view in KISS(Keep It Short and Simple). Why? Because I want our Philippines to be ruled by the Pilipinos. Our recent woes can be medicated thru a sincere and honest goverment and a quality education to raise our poor countrymen from their present situation.
All countries had gone thru hell in their histories prior to their advancement and america was not exempted by this phenomenom. I mean, we need more time to improve our culture being a young independent country. So dont jump in haste to give our rights to the americans just because you tasted their bread and butter? I'm sure Rizal, Aguinaldo and many other Philippine heroes who shed their blood for freedom will raise an eyebrow on people like you!

HELL NO! TO AMARICAN RULE OR YOU SOUND LIKE A FOOL!!! :(

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Re: propose PI to become the 52nd state of US
« Reply #24 on: September 15, 2008, 10:08:22 AM »
Lor,
I'll keep my point of view in KISS(Keep It Short and Simple). Why? Because I want our Philippines to be ruled by the Pilipinos. Our recent woes can be medicated thru a sincere and honest goverment and a quality education to raise our poor countrymen from their present situation.
All countries had gone thru hell in their histories prior to their advancement and america was not exempted by this phenomenom. I mean, we need more time to improve our culture being a young independent country. So dont jump in haste to give our rights to the americans just because you tasted their bread and butter? I'm sure Rizal, Aguinaldo and many other Philippine heroes who shed their blood for freedom will raise an eyebrow on people like you!

HELL NO! TO AMARICAN RULE OR YOU SOUND LIKE A FOOL!!! :(


Interesting to read your point of view, Buwad.

Though I would like to have read more reasons for independence. :)

lol, I like your little phrase, "Hell no to American rule or you sound like a fool."

Creative, I give you that. :)


Any other reasons?

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Re: propose PI to become the 52nd state of US
« Reply #25 on: September 15, 2008, 10:12:13 AM »
All countries had gone thru hell in their histories prior to their advancement and america was not exempted by this phenomenom. I mean, we need more time to improve our culture being a young independent country. So dont jump in haste to give our rights to the americans just because you tasted their bread and butter?


Buwad sa imo tingali na pag tuo nga ang Merika was onced owned by white people! asa naman nimo karon gibutang ang mga natives who also struggled more than anyone else?

You sounded very selfish to me when you say LET NOT OUR COUNTRY RULED BY AMERICA where in fact you are  living in  one of her state? You are the one eating their butter Buwad and you cant deny it! Stop lying now kay di na na uso, WE NEED CHANGE! I know that Philippine invasion will never happen but i always disliked to hear such DOUBLE STANDARD, mura man na sa bata pa ko nga pa dili-dili, di ko bi?

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Re: propose PI to become the 52nd state of US
« Reply #26 on: September 15, 2008, 10:15:56 AM »
I would like to settle a misunderstanding that you have, Buwad, perhaps it was lost in translation throughout my posts.

First, I provided historical reasons for development and the benefits. The United States will not nor has it any wish to rule over the Philippines.

The original poster merely wanted to see reasons for a dependency on the United States.

You need to understand the history, Buwad, in order to have a broader and more educated understanding on the given situation. Its called analytical understanding, as it is referred to in Medicine and History.

Secondly, I would really want to see the responses of men like Rizal had he been alive to see what has happened to the Philippines.

As for Aguinaldo, the man sold out to the Americans during the Philippine-American War. He pledged his allegiance to the United States for fear of death. Unlike Rizal, who chose death and spoke his words. I would not compare Rizal and Aguinaldo in the same pedestal. Rizal was a purist; an idealist. Aguinaldo, was a realist.
:)

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Re: propose PI to become the 52nd state of US
« Reply #27 on: September 15, 2008, 12:27:19 PM »
miss da binz, dia ko daris manila nag trabajo ga agwanta sa luoy nga ekonomiya with hopes that in the future it will change for the better for our future generations.

Lor, whatever you may say for the sake of reasoning and rationalization. i will always be me and that Philippines is for Pilipinos! No one can take that pride from me!

You can sell your souls for rock n roll!


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Re: propose PI to become the 52nd state of US
« Reply #28 on: September 16, 2008, 06:19:34 AM »
miss da binz, dia ko daris manila nag trabajo ga agwanta sa luoy nga ekonomiya with hopes that in the future it will change for the better for our future generations.

Lor, whatever you may say for the sake of reasoning and rationalization. i will always be me and that Philippines is for Pilipinos! No one can take that pride from me!

You can sell your souls for rock n roll!


I understand your point of view and I respect your point of view, Buwad, we're all entitled to our own opinions. However, you don't have to result in petty words and rhetoric that is quite frankly uncivil. Childish. No one is selling our souls to rock and roll.

It's called a difference in opinion. Ms. Dabinsi, being an educated woman, and a professional medical provider, deals with patients who have different points of views. However, respecting their views. It's just part of the decorum of the exchange of views, Buwad. And my views will not change in response to petty comments that have no bearing on the said subject.

It's called professionalism, and educated decorum. :)


I wish you would have provided a better defense of your position. It was rather minuscule in content. I was expecting something more. You leave me wanting.

Additionally, Buwad, it is rationalism and reasoning that prevents society from spiraling into unchecked nihilism and ectopic rhetoric. It is reasoning that has driven man away from the blind superstitions of the past. It is rationality and reason that has spearheaded man into proper discourse with one another; it is rationalism and reason that has declared what is wrong and what is right. It is rationalism and reason that has provided the bases of human understanding that great men such as Rizal, Washington, Lopez. Del Pilar, Jackson, Lincoln, Voltaire, Robespierre, etc stand on the shoulders on.

Know what you're talking about.



Absolutely,
Lorenzo


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Re: propose PI to become the 52nd state of US
« Reply #29 on: September 16, 2008, 06:44:39 AM »
miss da binz, dia ko daris manila nag trabajo ga agwanta sa luoy nga ekonomiya with hopes that in the future it will change for the better for our future generations.

Lor, whatever you may say for the sake of reasoning and rationalization. i will always be me and that Philippines is for Pilipinos! No one can take that pride from me!

You can sell your souls for rock n roll!




Then, so be it! You jsut want our people to strive and suffer like you? Thants why you dont want some change? Hellooooo!

BTW, my soul has been sold so many years ago. And i never regret it. I still love Philippines despite the attitudes of my people, jsut too bad my people love it that way.

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Re: propose PI to become the 52nd state of US
« Reply #30 on: September 16, 2008, 08:21:24 AM »
i know what I'm talking about - never to american rule in our islands!
too much mistake on too much words. reasoning and rationalization is okay as long as it will not be abused. you know what i mean? amboy?

its a reality in northern ireland IRA shots the knee cap on their enemies here they put holes in your head!

but still even if you have an encyclopaedic volume of your wisdom and thoughts. it well never take away my boholano/pilipino pride that never to american rule! never!

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Re: propose PI to become the 52nd state of US
« Reply #31 on: September 16, 2008, 10:09:12 AM »
Lorenzo,
   You are brilliant in your reasoning, you ought to be a lawyer!! LOL. And yes you are right in your rationals, except i take exemption on the fact that only filipinos can solve our problems. The deeper the whole we are in, the less hope we have. We are owned and controlled by the rich corrupt filipinos unfortunately. I hate to think that they are getting richer and the poor getting poorer. The attitude of a hopeless people like us tend to get selfish just to survive, it doesn't matter if it hurts someone else..
       That's why I only wish that there would be another way to unseat the ruling corrupt, that the poor mass elect disperately just to make a meal...
       What a life....
   But why would someone like BUWAD, is so hard shelled that he's idiology about selling souls to the americans still choose to neglect the reality of our situation..Nobody is selling anything..I lived in the US for 30 years and still proud to be a filipino, I just wish that our govt seizes to provide hope, opportunities, security and peace of mind to be in our own homeland...at any time i will come home..

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Re: propose PI to become the 52nd state of US
« Reply #32 on: September 16, 2008, 12:07:00 PM »
Lorenzo,
   You are brilliant in your reasoning, you ought to be a lawyer!! LOL. And yes you are right in your rationals, except i take exemption on the fact that only filipinos can solve our problems. The deeper the whole we are in, the less hope we have. We are owned and controlled by the rich corrupt filipinos unfortunately. I hate to think that they are getting richer and the poor getting poorer. The attitude of a hopeless people like us tend to get selfish just to survive, it doesn't matter if it hurts someone else..
       That's why I only wish that there would be another way to unseat the ruling corrupt, that the poor mass elect disperately just to make a meal...
       What a life....
   But why would someone like BUWAD, is so hard shelled that he's idiology about selling souls to the americans still choose to neglect the reality of our situation..Nobody is selling anything..I lived in the US for 30 years and still proud to be a filipino, I just wish that our govt seizes to provide hope, opportunities, security and peace of mind to be in our own homeland...at any time i will come home..

Thank you Oliver,

I owe much to the teachings of my professors and my 4 years experience in the collegiate Debate Club. Lincoln-Douglass Debates, were a particular hobby-favorite.

And likewise, yourself, sir.

I personally found your thread rather intellectually stimulating!

Keep it up, Oliver. Keep it up!


Yours,
Lorenzo

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Re: propose PI to become the 52nd state of US
« Reply #33 on: September 16, 2008, 12:16:18 PM »

   But why would someone like BUWAD, is so hard shelled that he's idiology about selling souls to the americans still choose to neglect the reality of our situation..Nobody is selling anything..I lived in the US for 30 years and still proud to be a filipino, I just wish that our govt seizes to provide hope, opportunities, security and peace of mind to be in our own homeland...at any time i will come home..

Mr. Oliver,

I would dare to say that it is the pride of men like BUWAD, who would rather choose to ignore the langours and pains of his fellow countrymen than even consider the self acclaimed 'treachery' of considering American intervention. Or any other, for that matter.

It was Filipino Pride that promulgated the independence of the country in 1946 (only 1 year since the end of the Second World War), despite the fact that the United States was willing to propose a bill with the Philippines in rebuilding the war-torn country; all provided for by the Americans, had the Philippines chosen to remain an American Protectorate for another decade or so.

We became independent too soon, too fast. Infrastructure was minimal (considering the massive damage the Philippines experienced from both Japanese and allied bombing in the Second World War).

It was Filipino Pride and irrationality that placed us in this unequivocally provocative situation.

(This is grounds for another topic of debate, though) ;)




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Re: propose PI to become the 52nd state of US
« Reply #34 on: September 16, 2008, 12:27:36 PM »
There is a classical saying, Aesope's actually, that goes well with this subject matter.

The Hare may be fast, but the slow and steady turtle will win the race.

The meaning of this age-old saying is the stressing of the importance of strategic reasoning. When presented with a problem; you don't respond to immediately with haste and irrationality and fervor. No, the former leads to stupidity. Look at the American situation in Iraq, which was launched by Bush's inability to compromise with other world leaders and his insistence of "attack first, ask questions later" attitude.

Rather, when given a problem, you need to first research the history of the problem; actions made by past leaders as to know what policies and actions to use and not the ones that failed. It is the same in Medicine. When a physician is presented with a patient's clinical problem; say the patient has lymphatic edema, the physician cannot just immediately take the patient into the operating room and surgically remove the lymph; as it would lead to damage to either the thoracic duct or right thoracic duct. :)
Rather, an educated and well-informed physician will CONSULT with his peers and colleagues who have a better understanding of the problem and then from their views, determine a proper prognosis/diagnosis of the said problem.

It is the same in law, in political analysis, in finance and in the military.



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Re: propose PI to become the 52nd state of US
« Reply #35 on: September 16, 2008, 01:23:25 PM »
boys and girls, yes we could be just like hawaii, to tell you the truth the japanese descriminate the whites in hawaii. I think , we are to see what hawaii is doing now a days, see for yourself and witness how the hawaiians are very much in better shape than our own.
      Let us not close our minds, if we do not know what its like. even Puerto Rico,,,, look at them, they are led by the US, come and see Puerto Rico today as a US territory.
     Yes the the upper class got it made here. But i think if we do not concerns ourselves to the poor, we are living a selfish life, blinding ourselves on what we see everyday.

 Open your eyes, do not look away when you see a child selling cigarettes on the street, when a child is trying to earn a living because the parents cant do enough..
   Sorry, i could get carried away
 

Oliver,

Very interesting perspective.

Pray, do tell me, what do you think can be done to alleviate the situation?

:)

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Re: propose PI to become the 52nd state of US
« Reply #36 on: September 16, 2008, 02:25:09 PM »
The pasture always looks greener on the other side of the fence. And it's always tempting to just break down the fence and let the next-door master lord it over us in exchange for the green.

The trouble is that when we finally get what we think we want, the green on the other side is very likely not as verdant as we thought.

I've lived in Japan for about two decades. This is a beautiful, orderly, well-disciplined country. But I am not inclined to invite them to fix the bedlam that Philippine society is and to replicate their tree-lined streets, impeccably polite manners and sensitivity of political leaders to opinion polls.

Don't get me wrong. I wish for our president to have even half the sensibility of Prime Minister Yasuo Fukuda or his predecessor who offered to bow out of office because of legislative deadlock and low poll ratings.

I wish for wayward government officials to answer for malfeasance of even P5,000 of public funds or for receiving gifts inappropriately, as they do in Japan.

I wish we could even have half the discipline and the unity for community endeavors that the Japanese have.

But I am not willing to forfeit and negate the history, the struggles for independence, the culture, the sentiment, the identity, the sense of a hometown to return to in exchange for a perceived better life under a foreign political order.

I have seen how the Philippines and even Bohol have made great economic strides despite the daily political fray. Poverty is still an eyesore--and I wish they could just train the Badjaos at the Tagbilaran Port in more self-dignifying livelihoods.
 
But I have seen legions of homeless in Japan (and I'm sure in the US, too) flung away from reach of this rich nation's social welfare. I am kept on edge by news of firefight in the Mindanao, but I am even more nervous when I am in huge crowds here in Tokyo where anyone can just snap and stab people randomly (another bloody incident here the other day)...

Sadly, the green we see from afar is not really as green from upclose. And between two imperfect worlds--or between two sides of the fence--I'll choose the one where my heart really is.



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Re: propose PI to become the 52nd state of US
« Reply #37 on: September 16, 2008, 03:13:40 PM »
beneyl,
welcome to the forum. at least i did meet here one of a true hearted filipino who dont lose hope for better philippines in the near future.

mabuhay ka kaibigan at ipaglaban natin ang ating kalaya-an.

may God bless us all!!!



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Re: propose PI to become the 52nd state of US
« Reply #38 on: September 16, 2008, 04:37:25 PM »
That is very well said Benelynne ;)

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Re: propose PI to become the 52nd state of US
« Reply #39 on: September 17, 2008, 05:41:09 AM »
A pleasure to read your thoughts, Tito Benne.

Well stated. :)

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