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Author Topic: Ara gid ba Porgatoryo?  (Read 11236 times)

Lollapalooza

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Re: Ara gid ba Porgatoryo?
« Reply #80 on: September 27, 2012, 03:03:35 PM »
oh, no.  wa ko kaila ani.  sultihi ko, pleeease, mother water!


all i know ....this is a plant... mao ra hehehe

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islander

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Re: Ara gid ba Porgatoryo?
« Reply #81 on: September 27, 2012, 03:25:37 PM »
mao diay ni... daoy, wa pa man ko ani makakita.  dis-a man diay ko...



samot kalisod sa scientific name, trichantera gigantean

it's a hog feed!

The leaves of trichantera gigantean is a potential source of protein, varying from 18-22 percent in crude protein form from dry matter form and apparently most of this protein is real protein with good amino acid balance. Nutritional analysis (Rosales et al, 1989) showed that the leaves also contained: either extract, 2.8 percent; crude fiber, 13.4 percent; ash, 19.7 percent, moisture, 9.6 percent and NFE, 37 percent.(http://mboard.pcarrd.dost.gov.ph/)

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hubag bohol

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Re: Ara gid ba Porgatoryo?
« Reply #82 on: September 27, 2012, 05:24:41 PM »
faith in a divine being and the many ways of joining him at the end of our days has many nuances.  more often than not, it is more experiential and personal, as salvation should be, rather than a literal one.  the bible as the book of books is basis enough for our faith.  the churches or the different religious denominations that we adhere to are our guide.  nothing is ever literal. 

the real faithful i presume will never claim that one's personal belief is better than the other.  and that's beside the fact that all christian religious denominations can quote passages from the bible to support their specific beliefs, hands down, as can be seen in the posts of this thread.  it becomes a neverending story thus. 

but we can continue to learn from each other, if we may, in spite of or because of our personal beliefs and our religious denominations.  wa lay mas mabaw ug mas lawom.

Hmm, samot kalibog ang kutaw ni Botoy. Sori nga di ko kaapas sa pinsar ninyong pandits. Pero ang buot nimong ipaibot, posible diay nga legitimate ang Pastafarianism?

::)

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islander

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Re: Ara gid ba Porgatoryo?
« Reply #83 on: September 27, 2012, 05:50:56 PM »
lajo na ta jamo, if i may remind you, SPAMmer. ;D

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islander

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Re: Ara gid ba Porgatoryo?
« Reply #84 on: September 27, 2012, 05:53:53 PM »
Pastafarianism   
   
a new religion that worships Flying Spaghetti Monster, initially created to protest the Kansas State School Board's decision to teach "Intelligent Design" in schools.

Also known as the FSM cult

Codes of conduct:

# Prayers are ended with the word RAmen rather than Amen.

Benefits of conversion:

# Like the great noodles they worship, Flying Spaghetti Monsterists have flimsy moral standards.

# Promise of a stripper factory and a beer volcano in Heaven.

http://www.urbandictionary.com/

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islander

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Re: Ara gid ba Porgatoryo?
« Reply #85 on: September 27, 2012, 05:55:08 PM »
from the looks of it, morag 3 mo nga flying spaghetti monsterists dinhi, hehe. ;D

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Re: Ara gid ba Porgatoryo?
« Reply #86 on: September 27, 2012, 05:57:09 PM »
A rival faction [of Pastafarianism], based on SPAM (Spaghetti & Pulsar Activating Meatballs), has formed and is calling for a Holy War against FSM.  SPAMation claims to have the One True Letter to the Kansas School Board.

http://www.urbandictionary.com/

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islander

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Re: Ara gid ba Porgatoryo?
« Reply #87 on: September 27, 2012, 05:58:27 PM »
ari gid ba spaghetting pababa, pataas sang meatballs sang porgatoryo? ;D

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Lorenzo

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Re: Ara gid ba Porgatoryo?
« Reply #88 on: September 27, 2012, 10:54:15 PM »
duda na hinoon kog ex-priest ni si pikoy da.  si lorenz is priest-to-be, si fr chic is priest-now-and-forever.  hubag and bugsay are never-been-priest-and-never-will-be.  si bai tigs?  aw, seminarista.  kompleto man diay ning tbland. ;D

dearest isles,

simbako lang, mahadlok pod ko mo answer sa calling sa priesthood. mo hilak ahoang ginikanan og ahoang babycakes.

:P

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Lorenzo

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Re: Ara gid ba Porgatoryo?
« Reply #89 on: September 27, 2012, 10:55:28 PM »
is it possible for physicians to become priests?

(serious question lang ni ha...)

just want to know lang.

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Lorenzo

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Re: Ara gid ba Porgatoryo?
« Reply #90 on: September 27, 2012, 11:04:44 PM »
The doctrine of purgatory has been taught to Christians since the foundation of the Christian Church, its roots go back over 2,000 years. The doctrine of sola scriptura and sola fide, which is of a protestant foundation is quite new--only some 450 years.

Let us refer to the writings of St. Augustine the Great, an early Church Father:

"There is an ecclesiastical discipline, as the faithful know, when the names of the martyrs are read aloud in that place at the altar of God, where prayer is not offered for them. Prayer, however, is offered for other dead who are remembered. It is wrong to pray for a martyr, to whose prayers we ought ourselves be commended" (Sermons 159:1 [A.D. 411]).

"But by the prayers of the holy Church, and by the salvific sacrifice, and by the alms which are given for their spirits, there is no doubt that the dead are aided, that the Lord might deal more mercifully with them than their sins would deserve. The whole Church observes this practice which was handed down by the Fathers: that it prays for those who have died in the communion of the Body and Blood of Christ, when they are commemorated in their own place in the sacrifice itself; and the sacrifice is offered also in memory of them, on their behalf. If, then, works of mercy are celebrated for the sake of those who are being remembered, who would hesitate to recommend them, on whose behalf prayers to God are not offered in vain? It is not at all to be doubted that such prayers are of profit to the dead; but for such of them as lived before their death in a way that makes it possible for these things to be useful to them after death" (ibid., 172:2).

"Temporal punishments are suffered by some in this life only, by some after death, by some both here and hereafter, but all of them before that last and strictest judgment. But not all who suffer temporal punishments after death will come to eternal punishments, which are to follow after that judgment" (The City of God 21:13 [A.D. 419]).

"That there should be some fire even after this life is not incredible, and it can be inquired into and either be discovered or left hidden whether some of the faithful may be saved, some more slowly and some more quickly in the greater or lesser degree in which they loved the good things that perish, through a certain purgatorial fire" (Handbook on Faith, Hope, and Charity 18:69 [A.D. 421]).

"The time which interposes between the death of a man and the final resurrection holds souls in hidden retreats, accordingly as each is deserving of rest or of hardship, in view of what it merited when it was living in the flesh. Nor can it be denied that the souls of the dead find relief through the piety of their friends and relatives who are still alive, when the Sacrifice of the Mediator [Mass] is offered for them, or when alms are given in the Church. But these things are of profit to those who, when they were alive, merited that they might afterward be able to be helped by these things. There is a certain manner of living, neither so good that there is no need of these helps after death, nor yet so wicked that these helps are of no avail after death" (ibid., 29:109).




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Lorenzo

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Re: Ara gid ba Porgatoryo?
« Reply #91 on: September 27, 2012, 11:06:01 PM »
Another early Church Father, John Chrysostom, wrote:


"Let us help and commemorate them. If Job’s sons were purified by their father’s sacrifice [Job 1:5], why would we doubt that our offerings for the dead bring them some consolation? Let us not hesitate to help those who have died and to offer our prayers for them" (Homilies on First Corinthians 41:5 [A.D. 392]).

"Weep for those who die in their wealth and who with all their wealth prepared no consolation for their own souls, who had the power to wash away their sins and did not will to do it. Let us weep for them, let us assist them to the extent of our ability, let us think of some assistance for them, small as it may be, yet let us somehow assist them. But how, and in what way? By praying for them and by entreating others to pray for them, by constantly giving alms to the poor on their behalf. Not in vain was it decreed by the apostles that in the awesome mysteries remembrance should be made of the departed. They knew that here there was much gain for them, much benefit. When the entire people stands with hands uplifted, a priestly assembly, and that awesome sacrificial Victim is laid out, how, when we are calling upon God, should we not succeed in their defense? But this is done for those who have departed in the faith, while even the catechumens are not reckoned as worthy of this consolation, but are deprived of every means of assistance except one. And what is that? We may give alms to the poor on their behalf" (Homilies on Philippians 3:9–10 [A.D. 402]).


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Lorenzo

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Re: Ara gid ba Porgatoryo?
« Reply #92 on: September 27, 2012, 11:10:31 PM »
The Biblical Case for Purgatory




Purgatory is similar to several Biblical concepts (e.g. "Trinity") in that it is not explicitly named. It's attributes and nature are deduced from reading scripture and making logical conclusions. In this sense it can be easy to confuse the facts. But what does the Bible say? Let's take a look at scripture.

Purgatory is the effect of Christ's sufficiency.

    1. God is perfect Holiness. (Isaiah 6:3)

    2. We are called to that same Holiness. (Leviticus 19:2, 1 Peter 1:15, 1, 1:16)

    3. Nothing unclean can stand in the presence of the God or enter Heaven. (Ex. 33:18-20, Ps. 15:1, 66:18, Heb. 12:14, Eph. 5:3, 5:25-2, Apocalypse 21:27)

    4. Our impurities can be cleansed. This purification and final sanctification must happen before we enter Heaven. (Hebrews 12:29, 12:6, 12:10, Isaiah 6:5-7)

    5. Remaining venial sins can be forgiven in the next world. (Matthew 12:32)

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Lorenzo

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Re: Ara gid ba Porgatoryo?
« Reply #93 on: September 27, 2012, 11:11:30 PM »
1. God is revealed as perfect interior holiness



And they cried one to another, and said: Holy, holy, holy, the Lord God of hosts, all the earth is full of his glory.
Isaiah 6:3

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Lorenzo

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Re: Ara gid ba Porgatoryo?
« Reply #94 on: September 27, 2012, 11:12:00 PM »
2. We are called to that same holiness

Leviticus 19:2
Speak to all the congregation of the children of Israel. And thou shalt say to them: Be ye holy, because I the Lord your God am holy.

1 Peter 1:15
But according to him that hath called you, who is holy, be you also in all manner of conversation holy:

1 Peter 1:16
Because it is written: You shall be holy, for I am holy.

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Lorenzo

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Re: Ara gid ba Porgatoryo?
« Reply #95 on: September 27, 2012, 11:13:04 PM »
3. Who can stand in the face of the holiness of God?



Exodus 33:18
And he said: Shew me thy glory.

Exodus 33:19
He answered: I will shew thee all good, and I will proclaim in the name of the Lord before thee: and I will have mercy on whom I will, and I will be merciful to whom it shall please me.

Exodus 33:20
And again he said: Thou canst not see my face: for man shall not see me, and live.

Psalms 15:1
A psalm for David. Lord, who shall dwell in thy tabernacle? or who shall rest in thy holy hill?

Psalms 66:18
If I have looked at iniquity in my heart, the Lord will not hear me.

Hebrews 12:14
Follow peace with all men and holiness: without which no man shall see God.

Ephesians 5:3
But fornication and all uncleanness or covetousness, let it not so much as be named among you, as becometh saints:

Ephesians 5:25
Husbands, love your wives, as Christ also loved the church and delivered himself up for it:

Ephesians 5:26
That he might sanctify it, cleansing it by the laver of water in the word of life:

Ephesians 5:27
That he might present it to himself, a glorious church, not having spot or wrinkle or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish.

Apocalypse 21:27
There shall not enter into it any thing defiled or that worketh abomination or maketh a lie: but they that are written in the book of life of the Lamb.

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Lorenzo

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Re: Ara gid ba Porgatoryo?
« Reply #96 on: September 27, 2012, 11:14:28 PM »
4. We are deprived of the vision of God because of our sinfulness. But there is a divine purging fire which can heal us.


Hebrews 12:29
For our God is a consuming fire.

Hebrews 12:6
For whom the Lord loveth he chastiseth: and he scourgeth every son whom he receiveth.

Hebrews 12:10
And they indeed for a few days, according to their own pleasure, instructed us: but he, for our profit, that we might receive his sanctification.

Isaiah 6:5
And I said: Woe is me, because I have held my peace; because I am a man of unclean lips, and I dwell in the midst of a people that hath unclean lips, and I have seen with my eyes the King the Lord of hosts.

Isaiah 6:6
And one of the seraphims flew to me, and in his hand was a live coal, which he had taken with the tongs off the altar.

Isaiah 6:7
And he touched my mouth, and said: Behold this hath touched thy lips, and thy iniquities shall be taken away, and thy sin shall be cleansed.

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Lorenzo

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Re: Ara gid ba Porgatoryo?
« Reply #97 on: September 27, 2012, 11:16:09 PM »
5. Jesus implies that our sins can be forgiven in the next world.



Matthew 12:32
And whosoever shall speak a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but he that shall speak against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him neither in this world, nor in the world to come.

Scripture from the Greek Septuagint, the Old Testament of Christ, the Evangelists and Paul, and of the councils of Hippo and Carthage, affirm purgatory.

(Catholic and Orthodox Bibles include a larger Old Testament as did the Bible of Jesus' time. The Greek Text of the Bible used at this time is called the Septuagint.  This text was apart of scripture before Martin Luther mangled the Bible, and remained even in protestant Bibles well into the 19th Century. Some non Catholic, and non Orthodox Bibles still include them in the "Apocrypha" -- an incorrect name, which should be "Deuterocanon". )


2 Maccabees 12:42
And so betaking themselves to prayers, they besought him, that the sin which had been committed might be forgotten. But the most valiant Judas exhorted the people to keep themselves from sin, forasmuch as they saw before their eyes what had happened, because of the sins of those that were slain.

2 Maccabees 12:43
And making a gathering, he sent twelve thousand drachms of silver to Jerusalem for sacrifice to be offered for the sins of the dead, thinking well and religiously concerning the resurrection.

2 Maccabees 12:44
(For if he had not hoped that they that were slain should rise again, it would have seemed superfluous and vain to pray for the dead,)

2 Maccabees 12:45
And because he considered that they who had fallen asleep with godliness, had great grace laid up for them.

2 Maccabees 12:46
It is therefore a holy and wholesome thought to pray for the dead, that they may be loosed from sins.

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Lorenzo

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Re: Ara gid ba Porgatoryo?
« Reply #98 on: September 27, 2012, 11:20:46 PM »
Purgatory: Denial of Christ's Sufficiency?



Answer: NO!



This objection is based on a pair of erroneous presumptions: That progressive sanctification and suffering take away from Christ's work on Calvary and that the Church teaches that purgatory is work.

To address the second objection first, purgatory is not a place for those bad Catholics who didn't finish working their way to heaven while on earth. "For by grace you have been saved by faith; and this is not your own doing, it is the gift of God—not because of works, lest any man should boast" (Eph. 2:8-9). The purification that takes place in purgatory is purely a work of God's grace, since there is no chance for merit after death, and the judgment of each individual is based solely upon their earthly life. But regardless of where Christ purifies men, it is precisely because his sacrifice was sufficient that each believer can be perfected.

Though Christ paid the infinite debt of man's sins 2,000 years ago, the sanctification process in the life each Christian continues. In 1 Thessalonians 5:23, Paul tells the faithful, "May the God of peace himself sanctify you wholly; and may your spirit and soul and body be kept sound and blameless at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ." According to Scripture, sanctification is a thing of the past (1 Cor. 6:11), present (1 Thess. 4:3), and future (1 Thess. 5:23) in the Christian life.

This process often involves suffering, as Paul indicates: "Let us also lay aside every weight, and sin which clings so closely, and let us run with perseverance the race that is set before us, looking to Jesus as the pioneer and perfecter of our faith, for the joy that was set before him, endured the cross… 'My son, do not regard lightly the discipline of the Lord, nor lose courage when you are punished by him. For the Lord disciplines whom he loves, and chastises every son whom he receives. [God] disciplines us for our good, that we may share his holiness. For the moment all discipline seems painful rather than pleasant; later it yields the peaceful fruit of righteousness to those who have been trained by it" (Heb. 12:1-12).

Therefore, the presence of suffering does not detract from Christ's sacrifice. In fact, there is only one mention in all of Scripture of something "lacking in Christ's afflictions," and that missing link is the suffering of his mystical body, the Church (Col. 1:24).

In the Old Testament, God forgave David, but still took the life of his son:

2 Samuel 12:3
But the poor man had nothing at all but one little ewe lamb, which he had bought and nourished up, and which had grown up in his house together with his children, eating of his bread, and drinking of his cup, and sleeping in his bosom: and it was unto him as a daughter.

2 Samuel 12:4
And when a certain stranger was come to the rich man, he spared to take of his own sheep and oxen, to make a feast for that stranger, who was come to him, but took the poor man's ewe, and dressed it for the man that was come to him.

In the New Testament, Christ reiterates this principle:

St. Matthew 5:25
Be at agreement with thy adversary betimes, whilst thou art in the way with him: lest perhaps the adversary deliver thee to the judge, and the judge deliver thee to the officer, and thou be cast into prison.

St. Matthew 5:26
Amen I say to thee, thou shalt not go out from thence till thou repay the last farthing.

Women still experience the temporal punishment of birth pains:

Genesis 3:16
To the woman also he said: I will multiply thy sorrows, and thy conceptions: in sorrow shalt thou bring forth children, and thou shalt be under thy husband's power, and he shall have dominion over thee.

Even though Christ paid the infinite debt of man's original sin:

Romans 5:12
Wherefore as by one man sin entered into this world and by sin death: and so death passed upon all men, in whom all have sinned.

Romans 5:13
For until the law sin was in the world: but sin was not imputed, when the law was not.

Romans 5:14
But death reigned from Adam unto Moses, even over them also who have not sinned, after the similitude of the transgression of Adam, who is a figure of him who was to come.

Romans 5:15
But not as the offence, so also the gift. For if by the offence of one, many died: much more the grace of God and the gift, by the grace of one man, Jesus Christ, hath abounded unto many.

Romans 5:16
And not as it was by one sin, so also is the gift. For judgment indeed was by one unto condemnation: but grace is of many offences unto justification.

Romans 5:17
For if by one man's offence death reigned through one; much more they who receive abundance of grace and of the gift and of justice shall reign in life through one, Jesus Christ.

Romans 5:18
Therefore, as by the offence of one, unto all men to condemnation: so also by the justice of one, unto all men to justification of life.

Romans 5:19
For as by the disobedience of one man, many were made sinners: so also by the obedience of one, many shall be made just.

Romans 5:20
Now the law entered in that sin might abound. And where sin abounded, grace did more abound.

Romans 5:21
That as sin hath reigned to death: so also grace might reign by justice unto life everlasting, through Jesus Christ our Lord.



CONCLUSION

The sufficiency of Christ's sacrifice is not lessened by the fact that God's work of perfecting his children is a process that often involves suffering and even temporal punishment.

It is all a part of God’s promise made through Paul:

1 Corinthians 3:15
If any mans work burn, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved, yet so as by fire.

Philippians 1:6
Being confident of this very thing: that he who hath begun a good work in you will perfect it unto the day of Christ Jesus.



Reference:
https://sites.google.com/site/apostolicapologetics/


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islander

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Re: Ara gid ba Porgatoryo?
« Reply #99 on: September 28, 2012, 12:09:32 AM »
uyyy....ajaw usa isalikway ang mg aposibilidad, way seguro's chorus ni'ng amoa'ng bai Hubag....ulo lang daan, obispohonon na.. ;D

basta lagi mogamit ug greek alphabet (βυγσαψ) adto gyod na padung sa latin pax vobiscum sunod.

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islander

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Re: Ara gid ba Porgatoryo?
« Reply #100 on: September 28, 2012, 12:15:35 AM »
is it possible for physicians to become priests?

(serious question lang ni ha...)

just want to know lang.

in the absence of fr chic who can answer this best, here's my 4 centavos' worth...

an engineer friend of mine had become one.  a high-ranking banker is another.  no reason why a doctor can't be.   

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Lorenzo

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Re: Ara gid ba Porgatoryo?
« Reply #101 on: September 28, 2012, 12:54:33 AM »
basta lagi mogamit ug greek alphabet (βυγσαψ) adto gyod na padung sa latin pax vobiscum sunod.

The complete greeting is:


Pax Vobiscum In Nominae Dominum  Iesu Christo!

[Peace be with you In The Name of The Lord Jesus Christ!]


The salutation would be:


 Gratia vobis et pax a Deo Patre et Domino Iesu Christo.

[Grace to you and peace from God the Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.]



 :D

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Lorenzo

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Re: Ara gid ba Porgatoryo?
« Reply #102 on: September 28, 2012, 12:58:45 AM »
Or you can also say:



Gratia Domini Iesu Christo cum spiritu vestro!

[The grace of the Lord Jesus Christ be with your spirit]

 :)

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hubag bohol

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Re: Ara gid ba Porgatoryo?
« Reply #103 on: September 28, 2012, 05:15:47 AM »
You go to Purgatory if...   


You go to Purgatory if you die carrying the guilt of venial sin.  Venial sin is serious sin that doesn’t deserve the eternal torment of Hell.  An example would be saying a prayer carelessly.   Mortal sin is worse sin.  It is serious sin that does deserve Hell.  An example of it would be murder or adultery or spitting out the communion wafer.
   
You go to Purgatory if you die without any sin but if you owe God a debt of temporary (temporal) punishment for your sins.

You cannot help yourself in Purgatory.  You have to suffer enough before God will let you out.  The suffering purifies.

The living can pray for you and commit sacrifices for you and have masses offered for you.  This lessens the suffering you owe God.

The living can get a plenary indulgence for you that gets you out of Purgatory altogether.

If you are in Purgatory, you cannot and do not sin any more.  You are saved and destined for Heaven but only after Purgatory is done.  The Church says that being saved means you cannot lose salvation but this only applies to people who have died.

Nobody is meant for going to Purgatory.  We are to blame if we go there.

http://www.romancatholicism.co.uk/

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hubag bohol

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Re: Ara gid ba Porgatoryo?
« Reply #104 on: September 28, 2012, 05:22:39 AM »
from the looks of it, morag 3 mo nga flying spaghetti monsterists dinhi, hehe. ;D

He he, di galing. Mao ni akong giestudyohan ron...





The Prince Philip Movement is a cargo cult of the Yaohnanen tribe on the southern island of Tanna in Vanuatu. The Yaohnanen believe that Prince Philip, Duke of Edinburgh, the consort to Queen Elizabeth II, is a divine being, the pale-skinned son of a mountain spirit and brother of John Frum. According to ancient tales the son travelled over the seas to a distant land, married a powerful lady and would in time return. The villagers had observed the respect accorded to Queen Elizabeth II by colonial officials and came to the conclusion that her husband, Prince Philip, must be the son from their legends. When the cult formed is unclear, but it is likely that it was sometime in the 1950s or 1960s. Their beliefs were strengthened by the royal couple’s official visit to Vanuatu in 1974 when a few villagers had the opportunity to observe the prince from afar. Prince Philip was made aware of the religion and has exchanged gifts with its leaders and even visited them. -- http://listverse.com/


 ;D

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Re: Ara gid ba Porgatoryo?
« Reply #105 on: September 28, 2012, 05:24:18 AM »
uyyy....ajaw usa isalikway ang mg aposibilidad, way seguro's chorus ni'ng amoa'ng bai Hubag....ulo lang daan, obispohonon na.. ;D


Pun-an pas tiyan... ;D

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