Author Topic: Black Nazarene: Scam or Genuine?  (Read 4013 times)

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Black Nazarene: Scam or Genuine?
« on: January 10, 2013, 12:42:14 PM »
Black Nazarene: Scam or Genuine?

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Re: Black Nazarene: Scam or Genuine?
« Reply #1 on: January 10, 2013, 03:12:43 PM »
Black Nazarene: Scam or Genuine?
Dili kaha masuko si Jesus nga gihimo man siya nga negro sa mga devotees, Black Nazarene.

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Re: Black Nazarene: Scam or Genuine?
« Reply #2 on: January 10, 2013, 03:17:31 PM »
...than to speak out and remove all doubt." - Abraham Lincoln

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Re: Black Nazarene: Scam or Genuine?
« Reply #3 on: January 10, 2013, 04:46:30 PM »
for those who believe it is...then it is.

naglibog ko sa question. ang statue per se or ang faith/testimonies?

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Re: Black Nazarene: Scam or Genuine?
« Reply #4 on: January 10, 2013, 09:57:55 PM »
Dili kaha masuko si Jesus nga gihimo man siya nga negro sa mga devotees, Black Nazarene.

Jesus Christ was a Hebrew, and by birth, was of semitic origin. He was from the Middle East and was most probably darker skinned than say, say those who are of northern European origin.

I had a classmate who was from Israel, and who is of pure Hebrew origin. There were even times when people thought he was Egyptian because he was darker skinned, and he had very curly hair. His name is Benjamin.




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Re: Black Nazarene: Scam or Genuine?
« Reply #5 on: January 10, 2013, 10:00:01 PM »
Black Nazarene: Scam or Genuine?
Dili kaha masuko si Jesus nga gihimo man siya nga negro sa mga devotees, Black Nazarene.

When Roman Catholics, Eastern Rite Catholics, and Orthodox Christians venerate sacred icons or an image, they venerate what that image represents. The veneration of the Body, and Blood, and Divinity of the Lord Jesus Christ.

It is erroneous when some protestants see Catholics venerating to a sacred image and think that they are worshiping that image, no, they are venerating what that image represents, which is the Lord Jesus Christ, who sitteth on the right hand of God the Father.



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Re: Black Nazarene: Scam or Genuine?
« Reply #6 on: January 10, 2013, 10:12:55 PM »
Since I am in this topic, I would also like to clarify something. The issue of the Veneration of a statue of the Blessed Virgin Mary. When a Roman Catholic, Eastern Rite Catholic kneel before am image of the Virgin Mary, they are not worshiping the Blessed Virgin Mary.

The Virgin Mary is not a god. Catholics do not pray to the Virgin Mary as a goddess, NO! When they kneel before an image of the Blessed Virgin Mary, they are venerating what that sacred image represents!

The image of our Blessed Mother represents the THEOTOKOS. Which is Greek for "the Christ bearer" or "the God bearer". The Blessed Mother Mary was the bearer of the Christ Child, who is the Word Made Flesh, the Lord and Creator of all Things seen and unseen, the Alpha and Omega. Just as how the Ark of the covenant held the essence of God in the old testament, and was holy, so too is the Blessed Mother Mary the Ark of the Convenant because it was in her womb, that she carried and protected the Christ-Child.

When we venerate the Blessed Mother Mary, we also Honor Jesus Christ in the process because she is the mother of God. By venerating the Ark of the Covenant, the THEOTOKOS, we venerate what is inside and what it contains.

Christians call Jerusalem and the surrounding areas as the "HOLY LAND" because it was the area where Jesus walked and lived in. Well, in that sense, Jesus Christ also lived inside the Blessed Virgin Mary for 9 months when He was in her womb. This is why we venerate her, through her pious and sacred virginity, and through her glorious role as THEOTOKOS. The "Christ Bearer". The Ark of the Covenant.

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Re: Black Nazarene: Scam or Genuine?
« Reply #7 on: January 10, 2013, 10:23:12 PM »
Dili kaha masuko si Jesus nga gihimo man siya nga negro sa mga devotees, Black Nazarene.

The statue was made by an anonymous Mexican sculptor, and the image arrived in Manila via galleon from Acapulco, Mexico. Folk tradition attributes the dark colour of the statue to a fire on the ship that charred the originally white skin. (wikipedia)

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Re: Black Nazarene: Scam or Genuine?
« Reply #8 on: January 10, 2013, 11:33:11 PM »
Explain jud Doc :) I wish other people would do more research before they judge our religion. We should not question or try to alter any one's faith. It is his/her decision to do so.

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Re: Black Nazarene: Scam or Genuine?
« Reply #9 on: January 11, 2013, 06:18:14 AM »
Explain jud Doc :) I wish other people would do more research before they judge our religion. We should not question or try to alter any one's faith. It is his/her decision to do so.

It is every Catholic's duty to defend Holy Mother Church at every and any chance we have. In addition, we are also to educate non-believers as well as our protestant brothers and sisters. We do this in the hope that they will see the Truth and convert, and be embraced into the Communion of Saints, through the One, Holy, Roman Catholic Church.

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Re: Black Nazarene: Scam or Genuine?
« Reply #10 on: January 11, 2013, 06:19:17 AM »
The statue was made by an anonymous Mexican sculptor, and the image arrived in Manila via galleon from Acapulco, Mexico. Folk tradition attributes the dark colour of the statue to a fire on the ship that charred the originally white skin. (wikipedia)

Thanks for this beautiful information, Isle.

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Re: Black Nazarene: Scam or Genuine?
« Reply #11 on: January 11, 2013, 06:26:23 AM »
Black Nazarene: Scam or Genuine?

There have been thousands, if not millions of miraculous healings that are attributed through the veneration of the sacred image. It is through their faith in Christ and in the power of God's mercy that they are healed.

If you remember, in Luke Chapter 8, there was a woman who had problems with uncontrollable bleeding and was unable to be cured by doctors. This woman touched the cloak of our Lord Jesus Christ, and because of her faith, was healed. Christ our Lord even made a point by stating that His power went out to cure her. It was through her faith that she was healed. She believed that by touching a garment that belonged to the Son of God that she would be healed. Because she believed Christ was the Son of God , and because of her faith, she was healed.  This is the same as when a devotee venerates the Image of the Black Nazarene, or venerates the image of the Blessed Santo Nino.

When people venerate a sacred image, especially the image of the Black Nazarene, and if they are healed, or some miraculous event occurs, they receive the rewards of their faith. There is a difference between WORSHIPING and VENERATING.

When a Roman Catholic venerates an Image of the Lord Jesus Christ, we are Glorifying what that Image represents, which is the Lord Jesus Christ. We do not believe that the statue is God. No. That would be idolatry.





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Re: Black Nazarene: Scam or Genuine?
« Reply #12 on: January 11, 2013, 10:43:13 AM »
It is every Catholic's duty to defend Holy Mother Church at every and any chance we have. In addition, we are also to educate non-believers as well as our protestant brothers and sisters. We do this in the hope that they will see the Truth and convert, and be embraced into the Communion of Saints, through the One, Holy, Roman Catholic Church.

True Doc. My husband is a protestant and we never had problems with our difference. He goes to a Catholic church with me and my kids are all Catholic. I do my best to answer all his questions about Catholicism since I studied in a Catholic school since Kindergarten and my brother is a seminarian as well, so I know some facts. I also have observed that some Catholics are only Catholics by affiliation and do not exert efforts to understand the Religion and Faith that's why converts are rampant nowadays.

We will all be healed if we believe. Just like that woman who suffered 12 years of bleeding agony or the blind man who has been blind all his life. It's faith at work. Nasa Diyos ang awa, nasa tao ang gawa.

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Re: Black Nazarene: Scam or Genuine?
« Reply #13 on: January 11, 2013, 10:55:24 AM »
I also have observed that some Catholics are only Catholics by affiliation and do not exert efforts to understand the Religion and Faith that's why converts are rampant nowadays.

Agoi, naa na puy pipila sa atong kaberks diri sa TB nga natamaan ani...

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Re: Black Nazarene: Scam or Genuine?
« Reply #14 on: January 11, 2013, 11:28:37 AM »
faith, after all, is one's very personal relationship with one's god.  i decided long ago never to be defensive about my catholic faith.  woe to those who profess that their religion is better than those of other faiths.

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Re: Black Nazarene: Scam or Genuine?
« Reply #15 on: January 12, 2013, 02:13:11 AM »
Dili kaha masuko si Jesus nga gihimo man siya nga negro sa mga devotees, Black Nazarene.

The Bible will tell us that God has included the entire mankind in the salvation story. Following this, I think Jesus would be even more eager to be one with us, may we be dark-skinned, white, brown, yellow etc. To put God inside the box of our earthly understanding of things could be dangerous. Nakalimot na ko kung unsa nay pangan anang type of heresy.

Anyway, as a Roman Catholic Filipino, I would want to experience sometime kung unsay feeling nga naa kas procession sa Nazareno (translacion).

Viva Nuestro Padre Jesus Nazareno!

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Re: Black Nazarene: Scam or Genuine?
« Reply #16 on: January 12, 2013, 02:19:32 AM »
On the issue of images and sacred icons, I quote this from PROF. RAMON GITAMONDOC, CFD National President EXCHANGES ON SACRED IMAGES part 1:

CCC par 2130 Nevertheless, already in the Old Testament, God ordained or permitted the making of images that pointed symbolically toward salvation by the incarnate Word: so it was with the bronze serpent, the ark of the covenant and the cherubim. (Num 21:4-9; Wis 16:5-14; Jn 3:14-15; Exo 25:18-22; 1 Kings 6:23-28; 7:23-26)

God cannot command in one part of the Scriptures what He forbids in another part for God cannot contradict Himself. If Exodus 20:4 is an absolute prohibition on the use of images in worship then God would contradict himself because in Exo 25:18-22 He commanded Moses to make a graven image of a cherubim. God would have contradicted Himself for in Eze 41:18-19 He ordained that His temple be adorned with sacred images. Only the Catholic position would harmonize these seeming contradictions. In Exo 20:3-5 God was proscribing against idolatry (that is the worship of images as gods) while in Exo 25:18-22, Eze 41:18-19 He ordains the proper use of images in worship (iconolatry). This distinction is very important in understanding the Catholic position.


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Re: Black Nazarene: Scam or Genuine?
« Reply #17 on: January 12, 2013, 03:36:24 AM »
Thanks for that excellent point, Brod Vince.

I also wanted to add doctrinal information from the Catechism of the Church:


1159 The sacred image, the liturgical icon, principally represents Christ. It cannot represent the invisible and incomprehensible God, but the incarnation of the Son of God has ushered in a new "economy" of images: Previously God, who has neither a body nor a face, absolutely could not be represented by an image. But now that he has made himself visible in the flesh and has lived with men, I can make an image of what I have seen of God . . . and contemplate the glory of the Lord, his face unveiled.[27]

1160 Christian iconography expresses in images the same Gospel message that Scripture communicates by words. Image and word illuminate each other: We declare that we preserve intact all the written and unwritten traditions of the Church which have been entrusted to us. One of these traditions consists in the production of representational artwork, which accords with the history of the preaching of the Gospel. For it confirms that the incarnation of the Word of God was real and not imaginary, and to our benefit as well, for realities that illustrate each other undoubtedly reflect each other's meaning.[28]

1161 All the signs in the liturgical celebrations are related to Christ: as are sacred images of the holy Mother of God and of the saints as well. They truly signify Christ, who is glorified in them. They make manifest the "cloud of witnesses"[29] who continue to participate in the salvation of the world and to whom we are united, above all in sacramental celebrations. Through their icons, it is man "in the image of God," finally transfigured "into his likeness,"[30] who is revealed to our faith. So too are the angels, who also are recapitulated in Christ: Following the divinely inspired teaching of our holy Fathers and the tradition of the Catholic Church (for we know that this tradition comes from the Holy Spirit who dwells in her) we rightly define with full certainty and correctness that, like the figure of the precious and life-giving cross, venerable and holy images of our Lord and God and Savior, Jesus Christ, our inviolate Lady, the holy Mother of God, and the venerated angels, all the saints and the just, whether painted or made of mosaic or another suitable material, are to be exhibited in the holy churches of God, on sacred vessels and vestments, walls and panels, in houses and on streets.[31]

1162 "The beauty of the images moves me to contemplation, as a meadow delights the eyes and subtly infuses the soul with the glory of God."[32] Similarly, the contemplation of sacred icons, united with meditation on the Word of God and the singing of liturgical hymns, enters into the harmony of the signs of celebration so that the mystery celebrated is imprinted in the heart's memory and is then expressed in the new life of the faithful. "


Reference:
The Catechism of the One, Holy, Roman Catholic Church
http://www.vatican.va/archive/ENG0015/_P38.HTM#V4

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Re: Black Nazarene: Scam or Genuine?
« Reply #19 on: January 12, 2013, 08:18:55 PM »
Dili kaha masuko si Jesus nga gihimo man siya nga negro sa mga devotees, Black Nazarene.




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Re: Black Nazarene: Scam or Genuine?
« Reply #20 on: January 25, 2013, 10:48:34 AM »

We can not read Black Nazarene in the Bible. Jesus is so perfect in beauty from a child until He rise. Ngano nga ato man nga himoon nga Black Nazarene. Naa pa gani nga santo nino  nga gisayaw-sayaw sa sinulog nga negro kaayo. Usa kini sa pagpasipala sa atong buhing anak sa Dios, si Jesus Christ.

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Re: Black Nazarene: Scam or Genuine?
« Reply #21 on: January 25, 2013, 11:05:51 AM »
tabla ra diay ni sa moingon tag mahimong yatak-yatakan ug luwaan ang hulagway sa atong amahan ug inahan, sir fd.  sa akong bahin, bantay lang ang mobuhat ana.  out of reverence for my parents, i will not allow anyone to disrespect and deface their picture or image.  di na akong parents mismo kay ang pictures, aw, papel ra god na.  it is what those pictures represent that ought to be respected and revered.  that's the way it is with catholics; we revere symbols that represent our god and all the angels and saints.   

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Re: Black Nazarene: Scam or Genuine?
« Reply #22 on: January 25, 2013, 11:13:43 AM »
but then, you have to be a catholic to understand that, but since you're not, with due respect, i doubt that your religion, which i surmise is christian just like catholicism, teaches that black is bad.  it is because you seem to imply that just because the nazarene image at quiapo and the sto. niño image in cebu are black (already explained in previous posts as due to their having survived fires), they are thus misrepresentations of the beauty of jesus christ.  would these images have estimated the beauty of christ had their faces been painted white as a japanese kabuki? 

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Re: Black Nazarene: Scam or Genuine?
« Reply #23 on: January 25, 2013, 11:21:31 AM »
as for not reading about the black nazarene in the bible... hey, can we read about filipinos in the bible?  does it mean we do not exist?

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Re: Black Nazarene: Scam or Genuine?
« Reply #24 on: January 28, 2013, 01:29:34 AM »
We can not read Black Nazarene in the Bible. Jesus is so perfect in beauty from a child until He rise. Ngano nga ato man nga himoon nga Black Nazarene. Naa pa gani nga santo nino  nga gisayaw-sayaw sa sinulog nga negro kaayo. Usa kini sa pagpasipala sa atong buhing anak sa Dios, si Jesus Christ.

Jesus Christ , as the only begotten son of God the Father, was completely DIVINE as well as completely MAN. The Wisdom and Divine Grace that sprang forth Him as an adult was the same as when Christ Jesus was a baby and a child.

I want you to turn to  Luke Chapter 2. Do you remember what happens here? The exposition occurs. The baby Jesus was taken to the temple and the Wisdom of God was made known -- the priest Simeon proclaimed, upon seeing the Christ Child:

"Sovereign Lord, as you have promised,
you now dismiss your servant in peace.
 For my eyes have seen your salvation,
 which you have prepared in the sight of all people,
 a light for revelation to the Gentiles
and for glory to your people Israel."


- Luke 2: 29-32


If we fast forward some 10 years, Jesus Christ visits the temple as a boy and what does he do? He enters conversation with the learned priests and holy men in the temple. His Divinity and Humanity was made perfect.

The marvelation and sacred reverence for The Lord was even made manifest by Simeon. Why should we be prevented from revering a Sacred Image of the Lord God?


Blessings and Peace of our Lord Jesus Christ be unto you and your family, Brother in Christ,  Felix Daray.



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