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Black Nazarene: Scam or Genuine?
« on: January 10, 2013, 12:42:14 PM »
Black Nazarene: Scam or Genuine?

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« Reply #1 on: January 10, 2013, 03:12:43 PM »
Dili kaha masuko si Jesus nga gihimo man siya nga negro sa mga devotees, Black Nazarene.
Life is what you make.
Kon naa kay gisoksok, naa kay makuot.

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« Reply #2 on: January 10, 2013, 03:17:31 PM »
Black is beautiful... 8)
...than to speak out and remove all doubt." - Abraham Lincoln

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« Reply #3 on: January 10, 2013, 04:46:30 PM »
for those who believe it is...then it is.

naglibog ko sa question. ang statue per se or ang faith/testimonies?

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« Reply #4 on: January 10, 2013, 09:57:55 PM »

Jesus Christ was a Hebrew, and by birth, was of semitic origin. He was from the Middle East and was most probably darker skinned than say, say those who are of northern European origin.

I had a classmate who was from Israel, and who is of pure Hebrew origin. There were even times when people thought he was Egyptian because he was darker skinned, and he had very curly hair. His name is Benjamin.



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« Reply #5 on: January 10, 2013, 10:00:01 PM »

When Roman Catholics, Eastern Rite Catholics, and Orthodox Christians venerate sacred icons or an image, they venerate what that image represents. The veneration of the Body, and Blood, and Divinity of the Lord Jesus Christ.

It is erroneous when some protestants see Catholics venerating to a sacred image and think that they are worshiping that image, no, they are venerating what that image represents, which is the Lord Jesus Christ, who sitteth on the right hand of God the Father.


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« Reply #6 on: January 10, 2013, 10:12:55 PM »
Since I am in this topic, I would also like to clarify something. The issue of the Veneration of a statue of the Blessed Virgin Mary. When a Roman Catholic, Eastern Rite Catholic kneel before am image of the Virgin Mary, they are not worshiping the Blessed Virgin Mary.

The Virgin Mary is not a god. Catholics do not pray to the Virgin Mary as a goddess, NO! When they kneel before an image of the Blessed Virgin Mary, they are venerating what that sacred image represents!

The image of our Blessed Mother represents the THEOTOKOS. Which is Greek for "the Christ bearer" or "the God bearer". The Blessed Mother Mary was the bearer of the Christ Child, who is the Word Made Flesh, the Lord and Creator of all Things seen and unseen, the Alpha and Omega. Just as how the Ark of the covenant held the essence of God in the old testament, and was holy, so too is the Blessed Mother Mary the Ark of the Convenant because it was in her womb, that she carried and protected the Christ-Child.

When we venerate the Blessed Mother Mary, we also Honor Jesus Christ in the process because she is the mother of God. By venerating the Ark of the Covenant, the THEOTOKOS, we venerate what is inside and what it contains.

Christians call Jerusalem and the surrounding areas as the "HOLY LAND" because it was the area where Jesus walked and lived in. Well, in that sense, Jesus Christ also lived inside the Blessed Virgin Mary for 9 months when He was in her womb. This is why we venerate her, through her pious and sacred virginity, and through her glorious role as THEOTOKOS. The "Christ Bearer". The Ark of the Covenant.

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« Reply #7 on: January 10, 2013, 10:23:12 PM »

The statue was made by an anonymous Mexican sculptor, and the image arrived in Manila via galleon from Acapulco, Mexico. Folk tradition attributes the dark colour of the statue to a fire on the ship that charred the originally white skin. (wikipedia)
Republic Act 8485 (Animal Welfare Act of 1998, Philippines), as amended and strengthened by House  Bill 6893 of 2013--- violation means a maximum of P250,000 fine with a corresponding three-year jail term and a minimum of P30,000 fine and six months imprisonment

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« Reply #8 on: January 10, 2013, 11:33:11 PM »
Explain jud Doc :) I wish other people would do more research before they judge our religion. We should not question or try to alter any one's faith. It is his/her decision to do so.

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« Reply #9 on: January 11, 2013, 06:18:14 AM »

It is every Catholic's duty to defend Holy Mother Church at every and any chance we have. In addition, we are also to educate non-believers as well as our protestant brothers and sisters. We do this in the hope that they will see the Truth and convert, and be embraced into the Communion of Saints, through the One, Holy, Roman Catholic Church.

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« Reply #10 on: January 11, 2013, 06:19:17 AM »
(wikipedia)[/i]

Thanks for this beautiful information, Isle.

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« Reply #11 on: January 11, 2013, 06:26:23 AM »

There have been thousands, if not millions of miraculous healings that are attributed through the veneration of the sacred image. It is through their faith in Christ and in the power of God's mercy that they are healed.

If you remember, in Luke Chapter 8, there was a woman who had problems with uncontrollable bleeding and was unable to be cured by doctors. This woman touched the cloak of our Lord Jesus Christ, and because of her faith, was healed. Christ our Lord even made a point by stating that His power went out to cure her. It was through her faith that she was healed. She believed that by touching a garment that belonged to the Son of God that she would be healed. Because she believed Christ was the Son of God , and because of her faith, she was healed.  This is the same as when a devotee venerates the Image of the Black Nazarene, or venerates the image of the Blessed Santo Nino.

When people venerate a sacred image, especially the image of the Black Nazarene, and if they are healed, or some miraculous event occurs, they receive the rewards of their faith. There is a difference between WORSHIPING and VENERATING.

When a Roman Catholic venerates an Image of the Lord Jesus Christ, we are Glorifying what that Image represents, which is the Lord Jesus Christ. We do not believe that the statue is God. No. That would be idolatry.




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« Reply #12 on: January 11, 2013, 10:43:13 AM »

True Doc. My husband is a protestant and we never had problems with our difference. He goes to a Catholic church with me and my kids are all Catholic. I do my best to answer all his questions about Catholicism since I studied in a Catholic school since Kindergarten and my brother is a seminarian as well, so I know some facts. I also have observed that some Catholics are only Catholics by affiliation and do not exert efforts to understand the Religion and Faith that's why converts are rampant nowadays.

We will all be healed if we believe. Just like that woman who suffered 12 years of bleeding agony or the blind man who has been blind all his life. It's faith at work. Nasa Diyos ang awa, nasa tao ang gawa.

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« Reply #13 on: January 11, 2013, 10:55:24 AM »

Agoi, naa na puy pipila sa atong kaberks diri sa TB nga natamaan ani...

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« Reply #14 on: January 11, 2013, 11:28:37 AM »
faith, after all, is one's very personal relationship with one's god.  i decided long ago never to be defensive about my catholic faith.  woe to those who profess that their religion is better than those of other faiths.

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« Reply #15 on: January 12, 2013, 02:13:11 AM »

The Bible will tell us that God has included the entire mankind in the salvation story. Following this, I think Jesus would be even more eager to be one with us, may we be dark-skinned, white, brown, yellow etc. To put God inside the box of our earthly understanding of things could be dangerous. Nakalimot na ko kung unsa nay pangan anang type of heresy.

Anyway, as a Roman Catholic Filipino, I would want to experience sometime kung unsay feeling nga naa kas procession sa Nazareno (translacion).

Viva Nuestro Padre Jesus Nazareno!
SALVE REGINA, MADRE DI MISERICORDIA.
VITA, DOLCEZZA, SPERANZA NOSTRA,
SALVE! SALVE REGINA!

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« Reply #16 on: January 12, 2013, 02:19:32 AM »
On the issue of images and sacred icons, I quote this from PROF. RAMON GITAMONDOC, CFD National President EXCHANGES ON SACRED IMAGES part 1:

CCC par 2130 Nevertheless, already in the Old Testament, God ordained or permitted the making of images that pointed symbolically toward salvation by the incarnate Word: so it was with the bronze serpent, the ark of the covenant and the cherubim. (Num 21:4-9; Wis 16:5-14; Jn 3:14-15; Exo 25:18-22; 1 Kings 6:23-28; 7:23-26)

God cannot command in one part of the Scriptures what He forbids in another part for God cannot contradict Himself. If Exodus 20:4 is an absolute prohibition on the use of images in worship then God would contradict himself because in Exo 25:18-22 He commanded Moses to make a graven image of a cherubim. God would have contradicted Himself for in Eze 41:18-19 He ordained that His temple be adorned with sacred images. Only the Catholic position would harmonize these seeming contradictions. In Exo 20:3-5 God was proscribing against idolatry (that is the worship of images as gods) while in Exo 25:18-22, Eze 41:18-19 He ordains the proper use of images in worship (iconolatry). This distinction is very important in understanding the Catholic position.

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« Reply #17 on: January 12, 2013, 03:36:24 AM »
Thanks for that excellent point, Brod Vince.

I also wanted to add doctrinal information from the Catechism of the Church:


1159 The sacred image, the liturgical icon, principally represents Christ. It cannot represent the invisible and incomprehensible God, but the incarnation of the Son of God has ushered in a new "economy" of images: Previously God, who has neither a body nor a face, absolutely could not be represented by an image. But now that he has made himself visible in the flesh and has lived with men, I can make an image of what I have seen of God . . . and contemplate the glory of the Lord, his face unveiled.[27]

1160 Christian iconography expresses in images the same Gospel message that Scripture communicates by words. Image and word illuminate each other: We declare that we preserve intact all the written and unwritten traditions of the Church which have been entrusted to us. One of these traditions consists in the production of representational artwork, which accords with the history of the preaching of the Gospel. For it confirms that the incarnation of the Word of God was real and not imaginary, and to our benefit as well, for realities that illustrate each other undoubtedly reflect each other's meaning.[28]

1161 All the signs in the liturgical celebrations are related to Christ: as are sacred images of the holy Mother of God and of the saints as well. They truly signify Christ, who is glorified in them. They make manifest the "cloud of witnesses"[29] who continue to participate in the salvation of the world and to whom we are united, above all in sacramental celebrations. Through their icons, it is man "in the image of God," finally transfigured "into his likeness,"[30] who is revealed to our faith. So too are the angels, who also are recapitulated in Christ: Following the divinely inspired teaching of our holy Fathers and the tradition of the Catholic Church (for we know that this tradition comes from the Holy Spirit who dwells in her) we rightly define with full certainty and correctness that, like the figure of the precious and life-giving cross, venerable and holy images of our Lord and God and Savior, Jesus Christ, our inviolate Lady, the holy Mother of God, and the venerated angels, all the saints and the just, whether painted or made of mosaic or another suitable material, are to be exhibited in the holy churches of God, on sacred vessels and vestments, walls and panels, in houses and on streets.[31]

1162 "The beauty of the images moves me to contemplation, as a meadow delights the eyes and subtly infuses the soul with the glory of God."[32] Similarly, the contemplation of sacred icons, united with meditation on the Word of God and the singing of liturgical hymns, enters into the harmony of the signs of celebration so that the mystery celebrated is imprinted in the heart's memory and is then expressed in the new life of the faithful. "


Reference:
The Catechism of the One, Holy, Roman Catholic Church
http://www.vatican.va/archive/ENG0015/_P38.HTM#V4

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