Author Topic: Do you think late Angelo Reyes died honorably? (Read 53134 times)

bol-anon quo nyur! · « **Reply #100 on:** February 18, 2011, 01:49:32 AM »

Aguuuy!!! Exampol man jud... basin matinuod ha? Kung matinuod, simbako, basin gam-an sad ko ninyog thread nga "unpardonable sins" ha? Tsk tsk tsk

Ang title sa thread: "ANG MGA BITUKON, PURGAHON"

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chicogon · « **Reply #101 on:** February 18, 2011, 02:08:02 AM »

OK. Let's think for a moment, ENZ. Earlier, you said...

I am sorry Mr. Reyes, but you cannot escape The Final Judge and His Judgment

Suicide is an unpardonable Sin. His soul is now burning in eternal fires of hell.

And then later you said...

I will pray that God was merciful to Mr. Reyes. One can only hope for the saving grace of God--who searches all souls and sees truths behind lies.

I pray that God was merciful to him.

Isn't that a little too late... to be praying for his salvation if you truly believed he was already condemned to the fiery gehenna?

And so we wonder... big time

Hmm, dili pa diay ni final and executory? Madala pag hilot?

Dili pa pero pagbantay kay ilawog kas tirong inig abot didto sa tumoy!!! Bwahahaha!!!

And yet...

Hmm. Spoken ex cathedra...

But...

with a twist, because it looks like it's spoken from a barber's chair.

Or could it be from his throne?

Nag conference call pag animal!!!

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islander · « **Reply #102 on:** February 18, 2011, 02:17:28 AM »

It is merely telling and sharing biblical truth.

what you are doing is telling and sharing biblical truth as you perceive it, without allowances for doubts as to your kind of understanding, much less discernment. it is as if you have crowned yourself as the only true believer in this forum. in fact, it is as if you alone can read the bible. take note that I say â€œas ifâ€ because, whether you mean to or not, you strike me (and it looks like some others too) as taking the moral high ground too much. we could be wrong, as you yourself could be.

As for the self, i am a sinner.

as sure as hell you are. we are. it goes without sayingâ€¦

However, it is important to tell people that suicide is wrong.

now, really...

Despite what the bible says about Reyes' fate, I do pray for him. May God grant peace and strength to his family in this time of loss.

thatâ€™s better. i mean the prayer, which is much better than cold-blooded condemnation. meantime, learn how to cross-reference your readings.

of course, you dont have to agree if you find yourself at odds with biblical truth. it still will be shared and reiterated.

one can disagree with you without being at odds with biblical truth. by way of a gentle reminder, you donâ€™t necessarily have the monopoly of biblical truth, so be more discerning and humble in your sharing and reiteration.

Peace!

it rhymes with piss.

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chicogon · « **Reply #103 on:** February 18, 2011, 02:58:46 AM »

Kaning kang Ms Isle maoy "ex cathedra" nga morag hongihong ug lanog gikan sa St. Joseph Cathedral. Ang kang Brother Enz is "ex birhen" (cuddling only) kilid sa Birheng Sang Barangay Sa Cogon

"Bato2x sa langit ang tamaan huwag magalit..."

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Raquelproud boholana · « **Reply #104 on:** February 18, 2011, 04:05:17 AM »

Aguuuy!!! Exampol man jud... basin matinuod ha? Kung matinuod, simbako, basin gam-an sad ko ninyog thread nga "unpardonable sins" ha? Tsk tsk tsk

Gi example ra ka nako Dre ug si Botoy kay sa akong pamati di na siguro mo mohapit ug purgahan unya si Botoy pud basta magpabilin raman ning good Boy makadawat gyud ni ug himayang dayon.
Di man siguro ang Ginoo mo condemn nato kita man siguro mismo sumaa sa akong nabasahan nga ug mamatay na ta unya ipakita na sa Ginoo atong binuhatan diri nga wa jud tay repentance ,atong kaugalingon man siguro ang mo voluntaryo ug asa ta dapit mopahiluna. Exciting baya pud ang kamatayon sa tinuod lang ug ready lang ta permi. Inig mamatay na daw ta unang motagbo nato si St. Michael siya daw modala nato ug asa tang lugara dapat ibutang.
Sa akong pagkamakasasala dako jud sigurong grasya nako nga ihapit ko sa purgatoryo. Ug mosugot pud ko ibutang sa purgatoryo basta lang ma sure nako nga mahilangit tang tanan. Ako gyud i special favors tong nag suicide nga maoy mauna ug kahilangit. What would it matter were I to remain in purgatory until judgment day if through my prayer I could save even one soul? How much less would it matter if my prayer is to the advantage of many and for the honor of the Lord.

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hubag bohol · « **Reply #105 on:** February 18, 2011, 08:43:08 AM »

what you are doing is telling and sharing biblical truth as you perceive it, without allowances for doubts as to your kind of understanding, much less discernment. it is as if you have crowned yourself as the only true believer in this forum. in fact, it is as if you alone can read the bible. take note that I say â€œas ifâ€ because, whether you mean to or not, you strike me (and it looks like some others too) as taking the moral high ground too much. we could be wrong, as you yourself could be.

Mao na lagi ni ba ang gipasabot ni Bay Bolbs nga damo sulti damo sayup. Giangkon lang gud unta dayon nga nasayop, pero unsaon, nagkabulibuli hinuon kay nagpatigbabaw ang pride...

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hubag bohol · « **Reply #106 on:** February 18, 2011, 08:50:02 AM »

Or could it be from his throne?

Nag conference call pag animal!!!

Bwahaha! Dili diay ex cathedra, ex latrina diay!

Hmm, mao tingali nga medyo shitty ang reasoning...

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hubag bohol · « **Reply #107 on:** February 18, 2011, 09:39:15 AM »

Example Ako,si Botoy ug si Padre magdungan ug kamatay.

Unya moingon ang Ginoo Hubag Bohol ikaw kay himajehon man ka dapat purgahon ka ug 15 ka tuig, Ikaw Dre ug Raquel purgahon mo dapat ug 25 ka tuig. Mangutana pa ba mi ni Padre sa Ginoo nganong taasa among tuig? Di naman siguro kay ang importante gihatagan pa mi ug chance nga mahilangit.
Siguro inig abot nato sa Langit mahingangha nalang unya ta nga ang mga badlungon diay sa kalibutan tua na nagngisi ngisi didto. Ang ako nalang siguro ika ingon is Glad you make it here.

Agree kaayo ko ani nga obserbasyon...

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hubag bohol · « **Reply #108 on:** February 18, 2011, 01:43:28 PM »

mano na sampol si sir hubagbohol

timaan gid ba na badlungon gid siya?

Bwahaha! Ti, ano gid man ang pinapalutaw mo sang pangkot mo haw?

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hofelina · « **Reply #109 on:** February 18, 2011, 03:14:41 PM »

from American Catholic.org;

Did he go to hell? Can he have a funeral Mass? What does the Church teach about this?

A: Only God knows the human heart well enough to make the awesome judgment about a personâ€™s salvation or damnation. The Church cannot preempt Godâ€™s judgment in these matters.

I think most priests would regard a funeral Mass as both appropriate and desirable if the family requests one. One of the largest funeral Masses I have ever attended was for someone who had committed suicide.

It is true that the Church once forbade a funeral Mass in these circumstances. The reasoning was that allowing such a Mass might be interpreted as condoning suicide.

Other believers have argued that, because funeral Masses are for the sake of the living as well as for the deceased, not allowing a Mass for those who have committed suicide simply increases the survivorsâ€™ already heavy burden.

Wisely, the Church in one of its eucharistic prayers addresses God, â€œ...and all the dead whose faith is known to you alone.â€

The Catechism of the Catholic Church teaches, â€œEveryone is responsible for his life before God who has given it to him. It is God who remains the sovereign Master of life. We are obliged to accept life gratefully and preserve it for his honor and the salvation of our souls. We are stewards, not owners, of the life God has entrusted to us. It is not ours to dispose ofâ€ (#2280).

The Catechism later teaches, â€œGrave psychological disturbances, anguish or grave fear of hardship, suffering, or torture can diminish the responsibility of the one committing suicide.

â€œWe should not despair of the eternal salvation of persons who have taken their own lives. By ways known to him alone, God can provide the opportunity for salutary repentance. The Church prays for persons who have taken their own livesâ€ (#2282-2283).

The 1983 Code of Canon Law offers a very narrow list of people who might be refused a funeral Massâ€”and then only if celebrating one might cause grave public scandal. The local bishop can decide any doubtful situations.

As always, final judgment belongs to God alone.

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hofelina · « **Reply #110 on:** February 18, 2011, 03:28:45 PM »

here is from a Froum Catholic.net;

I read that even the ones who died denying the Lord have a last chance once they are dead during a short moment to repent and save themselves by going to purgatory. Only the ones stubborn and foolish enough to reject the Lord at that ultimate post-mortem moment go to hell. This comes from Maria Sima's interview about "the poor souls of purgatory"

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fdaray · « **Reply #111 on:** February 18, 2011, 04:43:00 PM »

Yes, he died honorably kay naghinolsol siya sa sa iyang mga sala ug nangayo ug pasaylo sa Ginoo before he died. 1 John 1:9 (New International Version, Â©2010)

If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness.

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Lorenzo · « **Reply #112 on:** February 20, 2011, 01:09:09 AM »

Aguuuy!!! Exampol man jud... basin matinuod ha? Kung matinuod, simbako, basin gam-an sad ko ninyog thread nga "unpardonable sins" ha? Tsk tsk tsk

lol, dili pood, Fr. Roel.

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Lorenzo · « **Reply #113 on:** February 20, 2011, 01:13:34 AM »

Gi example ra ka nako Dre ug si Botoy kay sa akong pamati di na siguro mo mohapit ug purgahan unya si Botoy pud basta magpabilin raman ning good Boy makadawat gyud ni ug himayang dayon.
Di man siguro ang Ginoo mo condemn nato kita man siguro mismo sumaa sa akong nabasahan nga ug mamatay na ta unya ipakita na sa Ginoo atong binuhatan diri nga wa jud tay repentance ,atong kaugalingon man siguro ang mo voluntaryo ug asa ta dapit mopahiluna. Exciting baya pud ang kamatayon sa tinuod lang ug ready lang ta permi. Inig mamatay na daw ta unang motagbo nato si St. Michael siya daw modala nato ug asa tang lugara dapat ibutang.
Sa akong pagkamakasasala dako jud sigurong grasya nako nga ihapit ko sa purgatoryo. Ug mosugot pud ko ibutang sa purgatoryo basta lang ma sure nako nga mahilangit tang tanan. Ako gyud i special favors tong nag suicide nga maoy mauna ug kahilangit. What would it matter were I to remain in purgatory until judgment day if through my prayer I could save even one soul? How much less would it matter if my prayer is to the advantage of many and for the honor of the Lord.

Good point(s), Raquel. Point(s) taken.

The emphasis I put on earlier was the importance of the sacrament of reconciliation , at each and every moment one commits grave sins that intrudes and impedes on one's state of Grace.

This is the very reason why there are thousands of demonic possessions in the world, right now as we speak. This is the reason why exorcisms are committed in every diocese. One's state of Grace, is a basis for possession, basis for being influenced heavily by the devil and his many legions of demons.

I believe that Reyes was unfortunately influenced to commit such a crime. Was it not the devil, himself, who drove Judas Iscariot to hang himself from the tree after the guilt of his sin in betraying LORD JESUS CHRIST, THE WORD MADE FLESH?

It is one and the same.

It is clear what revelation says about unrepentant murderers. I did not say this, I am merely repeating the verse from Revelations. The Eternal and Infallible Word of God.

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Lorenzo · « **Reply #114 on:** February 20, 2011, 01:17:47 AM »

But the cowardly, the unbelieving, the vile, the murderers, those who practice magic arts, the idolaters and all liars--their place will be in the fiery lake of burning sulfur. This is the second death."

--Revelation 21:8

~~~

Anyone who hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life in Him.

--1 John 3:15

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chicogon · « **Reply #115 on:** February 20, 2011, 01:20:19 AM »

It is clear what revelation says about unrepentant murderers. I did not say this, I am merely repeating the verse from Revelations.

So am I from Luke 6:37, "Do not judge, and you will not be judged. Do not condemn, and you will not be condemned. Forgive, and you will be forgiven."

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Lorenzo · « **Reply #116 on:** February 20, 2011, 01:28:07 AM »

That indeed is a good verse, especially to be used amongst brothers. The verse from Luke is totally different context because that verse was talking about the pharisees and the saducees, hypocritical holy men in the temples who pray with empty words. Jesus Christ message was to love one another, that was the basis of Luke. Jesus tells us that condemning is not for us, but for God alone.

The best example of that was when the jews were to condemn and stone Mary Magdelene for her crimes of adultery. Christ reminded them that none of them were born without sin.

However, in the case of Reyes, the reiteration of Revelations and the verse from John is important. My emphasis is the reiteration of said verses, not condemnation. One can only pray for the mercy of God's judgement. But His judgment is impeccable and just.

Revelation is literal. The verse from Revelation tells us whom GOD will not allow to enter into His Kingdom.

Let me give another biblical example:

Jesus was crucified with 2 criminals. One who, a thief, who was repentant and asked to Join the Lord in Paradise. His was an example of faith unshatterable and Trust in Jesus Christ's power.

The other, an unrepentant murderer. The latter did not join the Lord into Paradise.

Judas Iscariot, hung himself. His was a suicide. Guilt.

~~

Acts 1:15-26
15 In those days Peter stood up among the believers (a group numbering about a hundred and twenty)
16 and said, "Brothers, the Scripture had to be fulfilled which the Holy Spirit spoke long ago through the mouth of David concerning Judas, who served as guide for those who arrested Jesus--
17 he was one of our number and shared in this ministry."
18 (With the reward he got for his wickedness, Judas bought a field; there he fell headlong, his body burst open and all his intestines spilled out.
19 Everyone in Jerusalem heard about this, so they called that field in their language Akeldama, that is, Field of Blood.)
20 "For," said Peter, "it is written in the book of Psalms, May his place be deserted; let there be no one to dwell in it,' and, May another take his place of leadership.'

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Lorenzo · « **Reply #117 on:** February 20, 2011, 01:37:21 AM »

Yes, he died honorably kay naghinolsol siya sa sa iyang mga sala ug nangayo ug pasaylo sa Ginoo before he died. 1 John 1:9 (New International Version, ©2010)

If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness.

How did he confess his sins ? He did not even suffer himself to be questioned in a court of law? Nor did he allow proper justice to be delivered unto him and those involved in this scheme. In the process , he committed suicide, his only 'escape' from the world and the inevitable Truth.

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chicogon · « **Reply #118 on:** February 20, 2011, 01:51:56 AM »

So hypocricy is always on somebody else... and so does condemnation?!! Never us, never you, never I. Wow naman...

So too our reading (or quotations) of Scripture truths (passages), they always adress somebody else but never self... aguy!!!

How about this passage from John 3:17, "For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him."

Do you really think Angelo Reyes' taking of his own life (and others) can alter God's plan for the world and all her subjects? Do you really believe they are BIG enough to change the course of God's economic plan of salvation or would you retort again to Scripture passage where you will claim (again), "I'm only reiterating Revelation or what-have-you?" You mean you're a "Sola Scriptura-kinda guy? You better check your Catholicity!!!

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Lorenzo · « **Reply #119 on:** February 20, 2011, 01:57:57 AM »

I am aware of my own sins, Fr. Roel. Flaws and what not , it is part of life and as a Christian. But through the sacrament of reconciliation, we are pardoned of these sins. The essence of the sacrament, from what i was taught through catholic teaching , was the importance of accountability of the Law.

My flaws as a individual, as a Christian should not have to matter. The point that I am trying to drive in the stake is the importance of accountability of one's actions.

And the importance of one's understanding that we are all accountable of our actions. Grace, is based on that aspect. When my friend committed suicide, I went to the church and asked for forgiveness of my friend to the priest at hand.

He gave me a long , long talk of the eternal perdition that my friend will suffer because of his suicide. My understanding is it is the actions that we take , that have consequences.

I am not a believer of Sola Scriptura. That is a flawed Protestant Theological Ideology. On the contrary, as is taught by Catholic Ecclessia, both Holy Scripture (The Holy Bible) and Holy Tradition make up and constitute TRUTH.

Just to clarify lang, Fr. Roel.

Bran.

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hubag bohol · « **Reply #120 on:** February 20, 2011, 01:58:08 AM »

I am sorry Mr. Reyes, but you cannot escape The Final Judge and His Judgment..where you are going. You may have evaded Philippine Justice, but you cannot hide from Providence now.

Suicide is an unpardonable Sin. His soul is now burning in eternal fires of hell.

Jesus tells us that condemning is not for us, but for God alone.

Pasayloa ako Ginoo, ikaw man diay ni. Pasayloa intawon ako nga wala dayon ako makaila kanimo. Angay baya unta akong makamatikod, sa kalantip sa imong pangutok lang daan. Sa makausa pa, pasayloa ako, Makagagahom, pasayloa kining imong ulipon nga taphaw ang kinaadman, kining makauuwaw ug lampingasan nga makasasala.

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Lorenzo · « **Reply #121 on:** February 20, 2011, 02:01:31 AM »

How about this passage from John 3:17, "For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him."

This is true. Salvation is constant progress. There is a verse from Philippians that says, 'One must work one's own salvation'. I am very hurt by Reyes actions. Most specifically his friends , family, loved ones.

I do pray that God was merciful and righteous in judgement. Pero, it is clear what Revelation says.

It was only recently that the Catholic Church implemented ammendments on suicides. But before these ammendments, Pre-Vatican II thought was constant in the teaching that suicides were destined to perdition.

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Lorenzo · « **Reply #122 on:** February 20, 2011, 02:06:59 AM »

On suicide (by catechism of the holy roman catholic church):

Negative and indirect suicide

Negative and indirect suicide without the consent of God is also an attempt against the rights of the Creator and an injustice towards Him whenever without sufficient cause a man neglects all the means of preservation of which he should make use. If a man as usufructuary is obliged in justice to preserve his life, it follows that he is equally bound to make use of all the ordinary means which are indicated in the usual course of things, namely:

1. he should employ all the ordinary means which nature itself provides, such as to eat, drink, sleep, and so on;
2. moreover, he should avoid all dangers which he may easily avoid, e.g. to flee from a burning house, to escape from an infuriated animal when it may be done without difficulty.

In fact to neglect the ordinary means for preserving life is equivalent to killing one's self, but the same is not true with regard to extraordinary means. Thus theologians teach that one is not bound in order to preserve life to employ remedies which, considering one's condition, are regarded as extraordinary and involving extraordinary expenditure; one is not obliged to undergo a very painful surgical operation, nor a considerable amputation, nor to go into exile in order to seek a more beneficial climate, etc. To use a comparison, the lessee of a house is bound to take care of it as becomes a good father of a family, to make use of the ordinary means for the preservation of the property, for instance, to extinguish a fire which he may easily extinguish, etc., but he is not bound to employ means considered extraordinary, such as to procure the latest novelties invented by science to prevent or extinguish fire.

~~

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Lorenzo · « **Reply #123 on:** February 20, 2011, 02:10:38 AM »

Reference: Catechism of The Holy Roman Catholic Church

Negative and direct suicide

Negative and direct suicide without the consent of God constitutes the same sin as positive suicide. In fact man has over his life only the right of use with corresponding obligations to preserve the object of God's dominion, the substance of his life. Hence, it follows obviously that he fails in this obligation of usufructuary who neglects the necessary means for the preservation of life, and this with the intention of destroying the latter, and consequently violates the rights of God.

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chicogon · « **Reply #124 on:** February 20, 2011, 02:12:11 AM »

This is true. Salvation is constant progress. There is a verse from Philippians that says, 'One must work one's own salvation'. I am very hurt by Reyes actions. Most specifically his friends , family, loved ones.

I do pray that God was merciful and righteous in judgement. Pero, it is clear what Revelation says.

It was only recently that the Catholic Church implemented ammendments on suicides. But before these ammendments, Pre-Vatican II thought was constant in the teaching that suicides were destined to perdition.

Are you telling me now you're bigger than the Church? If the Church has changed or made amendments, or has gone a little compassionate in their approach and understanding of Christ's teachings/commands or that of the early Church (that was still developing anyway), then who are we to insist otherwise? Hmmmm... you mean, you choose what suits your personality or viewpoint? Or somebody else's understanding?

You have to ask what you yourself believe!!!

How good God is to you?

Ask the very question Jesus asked his disciples? Who do you say that I am?

Then that is the God who will be to you, in the least...

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hubag bohol · « **Reply #125 on:** February 20, 2011, 02:20:18 AM »

You have to ask what you yourself believe!!!

How good God is to you?

Ask the very question Jesus asked his disciples? Who do you say that I am?

Then that is the God who will be to you, in the least...

Thank you for this, Fr. Chic. I have to say this is the best homily I've heard in a long, long while.

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Lorenzo · « **Reply #126 on:** February 20, 2011, 02:23:51 AM »

Are you telling me now you're bigger than the Church? If the Church has changed or made amendments, or has gone a little compassionate in their approach and understanding of Christ's teachings/commands or that of the early Church (that was still developing anyway), then who are we to insist otherwise? Hmmmm... you mean, you choose what suits your personality or viewpoint? Or somebody else's understanding?

You have to ask what you yourself believe!!!

How good God is to you?

Ask the very question Jesus asked his disciples? Who do you say that I am?

Then that is the God who will be to you, in the least...

Of course not, Fr. Roel. I am a member of the church, not the church, nor above the church. Am part of the body that makes up the entity, the being, that constitutes the Church.

My apologies if my position made it seem like that, through the process of driving the point of accountability, one's postings can be seen as hostile. But that is not the case.

To answer your question, Fr. Roel. Jesus Christ is Lord and Savior. The only son of God the Father. And through the Father and Son , the Holy Spirit, the counsel for all believers and Christians, proceeds. I believe in One, Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church. Of course The Lord Jesus Christ is good to me. He is good to me because he sends you and others when necessary to correct me when I am wrong. As it is said that a Father corrects a child whom he loves. Diba?

I welcome your correction.

However, I will reiterate the same message that I have been driving throughout this thread:

1. Accountability of one's actions are necessary. We will be judged according to our belief in Christ and according to our actions.

2. Suicide is morally, and spiritually wrong. It is a moral sin, it is a sin that should be evaded, it is the anithesis of the Hope in God.

If one commits suicide, one denies the Holy Spirit's ability to help one discern life goals, life questions, life situations, as difficult as it is.
Reyes, tho he was humbled and embarassed, should not have committed suicide. Rather, should have welcomed it as a teaching and a lesson from God. The worse case scenario was he exposes the truth of the corruption situation. or be ordered to expose his assets and live with media frenzy. for a while. But difficulties are meant to strengthen us, not to destroy us.

Reyes, as i drove, gave up in life. He denied the Holy Spirit's counseling on his mind. Jesus Christ tells us that "I will be with you till the end of time". Meaning that even tho we go through horrible, hard times, hardhips, etc, He will not leave us. Rather, Jesus Christ will strengthen us.

Jesus did not abandon Reyes.
Reyes, through his suicide, abandoned his family, his friends, and everything he worked for.

It is very sad. I cannot help but be touched by the situation of his life. He should not have given up...

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MikeLigalig.com · « **Reply #127 on:** February 20, 2011, 02:32:49 AM »

Naa bitaw sa Gospel of John akong gikalibgan kay si Pedro nangutana ni Jesus kung unsay linugdangan sa paghikog ni Judas.

When Peter saw him, he said to Jesus, "Lord, what about this man?" Jesus said to him, "If it is my will that he remain until I come, what is that to you? You follow me!" (John 21:22).

Sa Bisaya nga Bible translation: "Kung ako siyang buhion hangtud sa akong pagbalik, unsa may imong labot?"

Sa laing nga pulong, miingon si Jesus ni Peter: "None of your business, Peter. Follow me."

Ang giingon sa Bible, there is only one sin that cannot be forgiven, that is the sin against the Holy Spirit. Based sa context sa Gospel when Jesus said about this topic, the sin against the Holy Spirit may be committed when there is a work of the Holy Spirit and a man or woman attributes it as a work of the devil. This is what I understand sa mga nadungog nga preaching sa mga pastor ug sa mga Christian books nga akong nabasa.

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Lorenzo · « **Reply #128 on:** February 20, 2011, 02:36:31 AM »

The Sin against the Holy Spirit is an unpardonable sin. Suicide denies the Holy Spirit's presence in one's life. It denies the Holy Spirit's ability to counsel you and to strengthen you.

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chicogon · « **Reply #129 on:** February 20, 2011, 02:37:20 AM »

Naa bitaw sa Gospel of John akong gikalibgan kay si Pedro nangutana ni Jesus kung unsay linugdangan sa paghikog ni Judas.

When Peter saw him, he said to Jesus, "Lord, what about this man?" Jesus said to him, "If it is my will that he remain until I come, what is that to you? You follow me!" (John 21:22).

Sa Bisaya nga Bible translation: "Kung ako siyang buhion hangtud sa akong pagbalik, unsa may imong labot?"

Sa laing nga pulong, miingon si Jesus ni Peter: "None of your business, Peter. Follow me."

Ang giingon sa Bible, there is only one sin that cannot be forgiven, that is the sin against the Holy Spirit. Based sa context sa Gospel when Jesus said about this topic, the sin against the Holy Spirit may be committed when there is a work of the Holy Spirit and a man or woman attributes it as a work of the devil. This is what I understand sa mga nadungog nga preaching sa mga pastor ug sa mga Christian books nga akong nabasa.

Bwahahaha!!! Nakatawa kos dagan sa imong istorya but you drive home your point very clearly. I agree. I love it. I hope nobody will condemn us sa atong panabot hehehehe

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Lorenzo · « **Reply #130 on:** February 20, 2011, 02:37:52 AM »

Sinning Against the Holy Spirit is an ETERNAL SIN.

Mark 3:28-30: And Jesus Christ said unto them: “Truly I tell you, people will be forgiven all their sins and all the blasphemies they utter. But whoever blasphemes against the Holy Spirit will never be forgiven, but is guilty of an eternal sin. He said this because theywere saying, ‘He has an evil spirit’.”

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chicogon · « **Reply #131 on:** February 20, 2011, 02:39:45 AM »

The Sin against the Holy Spirit is an unpardonable sin. Suicide denies the Holy Spirit's presence in one's life. It denies the Holy Spirit's ability to counsel you and to strengthen you.

Maybe you're right and we're wrong. Oh well... May God have mercy on our souls!!!

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Lorenzo · « **Reply #132 on:** February 20, 2011, 02:40:49 AM »

Naa bitaw sa Gospel of John akong gikalibgan kay si Pedro nangutana ni Jesus kung unsay linugdangan sa paghikog ni Judas.

When Peter saw him, he said to Jesus, "Lord, what about this man?" Jesus said to him, "If it is my will that he remain until I come, what is that to you? You follow me!" (John 21:22).

Sa Bisaya nga Bible translation: "Kung ako siyang buhion hangtud sa akong pagbalik, unsa may imong labot?"

Sa laing nga pulong, miingon si Jesus ni Peter: "None of your business, Peter. Follow me."

Ang giingon sa Bible, there is only one sin that cannot be forgiven, that is the sin against the Holy Spirit. Based sa context sa Gospel when Jesus said about this topic, the sin against the Holy Spirit may be committed when there is a work of the Holy Spirit and a man or woman attributes it as a work of the devil. This is what I understand sa mga nadungog nga preaching sa mga pastor ug sa mga Christian books nga akong nabasa.

Thank you. I did not consider that verse in John 21:22.

Thank you.

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Lorenzo · « **Reply #133 on:** February 20, 2011, 02:43:37 AM »

Maybe you're right and we're wrong. Oh well... May God have mercy on our souls!!!

I am just a student , Fr. Roel. A mere Knight of Columbus. My words in this thread is just my objection to the action of suicide.

I will always defend and uphold Catholic Teaching , and most of all, its priests.

If I ever sounded arrogant and rude in my postings, my apologies lang ha. I am sorry.

I get very passionate in my postings when I am defending a belief and a point.

I love you. And I will always welcome your correction in my postings.

Love,
Bran.

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chicogon · « **Reply #134 on:** February 20, 2011, 02:44:28 AM »

Enz, you sounded like a remnant of the Inquisition... you think like 'em, according to the letter of the law. Oh, well (again)

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MikeLigalig.com · « **Reply #135 on:** February 20, 2011, 02:44:28 AM »

Parallel Translations of the intriguing statement of Jesus in John 21:22

New International Version (Â©1984)
Jesus answered, "If I want him to remain alive until I return, what is that to you? You must follow me."

New Living Translation (Â©2007)
Jesus replied, "If I want him to remain alive until I return, what is that to you? As for you, follow me."

English Standard Version (Â©2001)
Jesus said to him, â€œIf it is my will that he remain until I come, what is that to you? You follow me!â€

New American Standard Bible (Â©1995)
Jesus said to him, "If I want him to remain until I come, what is that to you? You follow Me!"

International Standard Version (Â©2008)
Jesus said to him, "If it is my will for him to remain until I come back, how does that concern you? You must keep following me!"

GOD'S WORDÂ® Translation (Â©1995)
Jesus said to Peter, "If I want him to live until I come again, how does that concern you? Follow me!"

King James Bible
Jesus saith unto him, If I will that he tarry till I come, what [is that] to thee? follow thou me.

American King James Version
Jesus said to him, If I will that he tarry till I come, what is that to you? follow you me.

American Standard Version
Jesus saith unto him, If I will that he tarry till I come, what is that to thee? Follow thou me.

Bible in Basic English
Jesus said to him, If it is my desire for him to be here till I come back, what is that to you? come yourself after me.

Douay-Rheims Bible
Jesus saith to him: So I will have him to remain till I come, what is it to thee? follow thou me.

Darby Bible Translation
Jesus says to him, If I will that he abide until I come, what is that to thee? Follow thou me.

English Revised Version
Jesus saith unto him, If I will that he tarry till I come, what is that to thee? follow thou me.

Webster's Bible Translation
Jesus saith to him, If I will that he shall tarry till I come, what is that to thee? Follow thou me.

Weymouth New Testament
"If I desire him to remain till I come," replied Jesus, "what concern is that of yours? You, yourself, must follow me."

World English Bible
Jesus said to him, "If I desire that he stay until I come, what is that to you? You follow me."

Young's Literal Translation
Jesus saith to him, 'If him I will to remain till I come, what -- to thee? be thou following me.' This word, therefore, went forth to the brethren that that disciple doth not die,

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Lorenzo · « **Reply #136 on:** February 20, 2011, 02:46:06 AM »

To all whom I may have indirectly offended, or hurt in this thread, please know that it was not deliberate, nor intentional. But meant to state a point on accountability.

Please know there are no hard feelings. We are all exchanging ideas and thoughts. Despite the differences (just keep it civil lang sometimes, not under the belt punching. lol)

Love You All,
Bran Lorenz.

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hubag bohol · « **Reply #137 on:** February 20, 2011, 02:48:17 AM »

I am just a student , Fr. Roel. A mere Knight of Columbus. My words in this thread is just my objection to the action of suicide.

I will always defend and uphold Catholic Teaching , and most of all, its priests.

If I ever sounded arrogant and rude in my postings, my apologies lang ha. I am sorry.

I get very passionate in my postings when I am defending a belief and a point.

I love you. And I will always welcome your correction in my postings.

Love,
Bran.

Love, hmm, maybe, welcoming corrections kuno but never to the point of admitting that you're wrong. That's pride, pure and simple.

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chicogon · « **Reply #138 on:** February 20, 2011, 02:49:57 AM »

To all whom I may have indirectly offended, or hurt in this thread, please know that it was not deliberate, nor intentional. But meant to state a point on accountability.

Please know there are no hard feelings. We are all exchanging ideas and thoughts. Despite the differences (just keep it civil lang sometimes, not under the belt punching. lol)

Love You All,
Bran Lorenz.

This is like a boxing match. You're tall (and your reasoning is on a pedestal), so I'm punching you below the belt, bwahahahaha!!!

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hubag bohol · « **Reply #139 on:** February 20, 2011, 02:50:15 AM »

To all whom I may have indirectly offended, or hurt in this thread, please know that it was not deliberate, nor intentional. But meant to state a point on accountability.

Please know there are no hard feelings. We are all exchanging ideas and thoughts. Despite the differences (just keep it civil lang sometimes, not under the belt punching. lol)

Love You All,
Bran Lorenz.

All we need is for you to admit that Fr. Chic is right and you are wrong. Just that simple. Can't you do that?

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Lorenzo · « **Reply #140 on:** February 20, 2011, 02:52:17 AM »

Enz, you sounded like a remnant of the Inquisition... you think like 'em, according to the letter of the law. Oh, well (again)

According to the letter of the Law , Jyud.

You are like Prophet Moses, Fr. Roel. Kind and Compassionate.

I am more like Joshua, warrior in spirit.

A verse that strengthens me during times of difficulty and trial,

"Just as I was with Moses, so I will be with you. I will not leave you or forsake you. Have I not commanded you? Be strong and courageous. Do not be frightened, and do not be dismayed, for the Lord your God is with you wherever you go.â€
-Joshua 1

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Lorenzo · « **Reply #141 on:** February 20, 2011, 02:53:53 AM »

Love, hmm, maybe, welcoming corrections kuno but never to the point of admitting that you're wrong. That's pride, pure and simple.

I was wrong, Hubag. Wrong in the sense that I was referring to Pre-Vatican II ideology.

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Lorenzo · « **Reply #142 on:** February 20, 2011, 02:54:32 AM »

This is like a boxing match. You're tall (and your reasoning is on a pedestal), so I'm punching you below the belt, bwahahahaha!!!

Hahaha ajaw pood, Fr. Roel. Ajaw ko sakita ba. Instead of punching, just hug me lang ha.

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hubag bohol · « **Reply #143 on:** February 20, 2011, 02:58:57 AM »

I was wrong, Hubag. Wrong in the sense that I was referring to Pre-Vatican II ideology.

Ah, OK. So Fr. Chic is right only in the sense that he is referring to the prevailing ideology. Tsk, tsk, tsk, pride rearing its ugly head again, little boy.

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Chongki · « **Reply #144 on:** February 20, 2011, 03:00:39 AM »

sakto guihapon sya bai hubs

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Lorenzo · « **Reply #145 on:** February 20, 2011, 03:01:33 AM »

Ikaw pood Hubag, you need to stop your condemnatory tendencies. I know that you and I disagree on issues, pero, you should not be so degrading in how you say things , or how you refer to other people. You think that I am not aware of your comments about myself. Enough with that.

So I am admitting my erroneous ways, so should you. I am asking you to be more respectful.

This forum, despite our differences in thought and lifestyles, should command respect for each and everyone.

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Lorenzo · « **Reply #146 on:** February 20, 2011, 03:03:25 AM »

Ah, OK. So Fr. Chic is right only in the sense that he is referring to the prevailing ideology. Tsk, tsk, tsk, pride rearing its ugly head again, little boy.

Yes. Simply so. It does not negate what revelation says, nor what 1 John says. Not pride, Nong, but acquiescing to what what is correct in that regard.

I still stand to the essence of my statements. Apology was issued in case people were indirectly offended, noting that it was not meant to be condemnatory (or presumed as condemnatory).

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Lorenzo · « **Reply #147 on:** February 20, 2011, 03:05:08 AM »

sakto guihapon sya bai hubs

Wrong, Chonks.

I accepted that Fr. Roel has a point in Post-Vatican II ideology, but the same message that Revelation and 1 John as well as what Catechism of the Holy Roman Catholic Church stands true, which is the emphasis that Suicide is Wrong and the antithesis of Divine Love.

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hubag bohol · « **Reply #148 on:** February 20, 2011, 03:07:58 AM »

Ikaw pood Hubag, you need to stop your condemnatory tendencies. I know that you and I disagree on issues, pero, you should not be so degrading in how you say things , or how you refer to other people. You think that I am not aware of your comments about myself. Enough with that.

So I am admitting my erroneous ways, so should you. I am asking you to be more respectful.

You are older than I, I want to give you full respect, but the thing that prevents me from completely showing you my respect is your hostility at times. So , I will address here. Change how you address people, and I will give you my full respect.

Sincerely.

I don't need your respect, only your intellectual honesty. Or just your plain honesty, if you don't have the faculty for the earlier requirement. If you don't know it, let me tell you: your intellectual pretensions make TB members sick.

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MikeLigalig.com · « **Reply #149 on:** February 20, 2011, 03:10:13 AM »

Estorya-estorya lang gud ta. Magbayloay sa mga huna-huna ug pangindahay. Bisan ug usahay managlahi ang atong gituohan, ipabilin gihapon ang atong pagkamanaghigalaay.

Mahitungod sa kaso ni Angelo Reyes, murag lisud e-conclude kung asa siya ibutang sa Ginoo kay we are mere mortals and creations of God. Dili pud ko makaingon gani nga mahilangit si Dr. Jose Rizal. Dili pud ko makaingon nga ma-impyerno si Hitler. Adto na ni nato mahibaloan sa gitawag ug "Day of Judgment" when God will exercise His authority as the one and only Judge.

Pero kabahin sa kaluwasan, adunay assurance nga gihatag ang Ginoo. Ato ning mahinuktokan sa dihang miingon si Jesus sa usa ka ka-watan (kadtong ka-watan nga mituo ni Jesus) gilansang tupad sa Iyang kilid didto sa krus sa Kalbaryo: "And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with me in paradise." (King James Version)

Sa Bisaya miingon si Jesus: "Sa pagkatinuod, sa pagkatinuod, magaingon ako kanimo, karong adlawa mahiuban ka nako ngadto sa paraiso."

Buhi pa ang maong tawo ug aduna na siyay kasigurohan sa kaluwasan.

Pero mahitungod sa pagkalaglag sa kalag ngadto sa impyerno, kitang tawo dili ta katugkad sa huna-huna sa Ginoo. Kay Siya man ang naay gitawag ug "final say." Ug Siya lang pud ang makakita sa kasing-kasing sa tawo.

Kitang tawo, ang atong makita puro external. Ang Ginoo ang Iyang makita tanan: external ug internal. Mao sa John 21:22, natunok si Peter sa gitubag sa Ginoo. Daghan na to ug sala si Judas, ang pinakagrabe ang pagbudhi ug paghikog. Apan bisan pa man niining tanan, miingon si Jesus sa pinolosopo pa nga estorya sa bag-ong panahon:

"Kung mahilangit o ma-impyerno si Judas, unsay may imong labot Pedro? Ako ang magbuot. Ang mahinungdanon nga mosunod ka nako ug sa akong mga sugo." - John 21:22

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hubag bohol · « **Reply #150 on:** February 20, 2011, 03:10:28 AM »

sakto guihapon sya bai hubs

Kanus-a pa gud siya masayop...

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Lorenzo · « **Reply #151 on:** February 20, 2011, 03:12:22 AM »

Intellectual pretensions ? What is it that you don't like, Nong? Intellectual pretensions , sounds so negative. When in fact there is no negativity in it. Can not an individual share some bit of knowledge that one has to everyone , without being called 'pretentious'?

I don't think there ever was a time in my life where I said to anyone, a person, "Oh look how you are less educated than i, and i am more educated than thou.."

Never.

In fact, i can be honest with you that i am really just an average individual who likes to share information and to divulge some tidbit of information.
Don't take it as pretension, never was it ever considered so. Perhaps, it is taken as as judging my cover even before you read the entire passage.

You are older than me, Nong, therefore you deserve my respect. But respect is earned not given.

Decency and respect.

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Lorenzo · « **Reply #152 on:** February 20, 2011, 03:14:40 AM »

Kanus-a pa gud siya masayop...

A lot of times, Nong. Kinsa man dili ma sayop? Tsk.

There are plenty of times here that i recognize my correction.

Ang issue ani, is that one should not pick on people , or poking fun of people.

Basing on one's supposed 'intellectual' pretension, should not be the reason for poking on one's traits.

Dili baja na maayo, Nong.

Ikaw man tigulang, you are supposed to know this and apply it, more than myself, who am much your junior in age.

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chicogon · « **Reply #153 on:** February 20, 2011, 03:17:37 AM »

Hahaha ajaw pood, Fr. Roel. Ajaw ko sakita ba. Instead of punching, just hug me lang ha.

I will hug and "amen" you when you get down from that pedestal. Misery loves company. And it's hot in here, boy. Come down and join the madla!!!

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hubag bohol · « **Reply #154 on:** February 20, 2011, 03:21:14 AM »

Intellectual pretensions ? What is it that you don't like, Nong? Intellectual pretensions , sounds so negative. When in fact there is no negativity in it. Can not an individual share some bit of knowledge that one has to everyone , without being called 'pretentious'?

I don't think there ever was a time in my life where I said to anyone, a person, "Oh look how you are less educated than i, and i am more educated than thou.."

Never.

In fact, i can be honest with you that i am really just an average individual who likes to share information and to divulge some tidbit of information.
Don't take it as pretension, never was it ever considered so. Perhaps, it is taken as as judging my cover even before you read the entire passage.

You are older than me, Nong, therefore you deserve my respect. But respect is earned not given.

Decency and respect.

Do I have to repeat it that I don't need your respect? Give that respect to yourself, maybe it will be better appreciated.

You say that you are just an average individual. You are absolutely right. It is not the fact of sharing information that makes you pretentious, but the way you do so. But then again, you probably have to live a little bit longer to understand what I'm saying.

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Lorenzo · « **Reply #155 on:** February 20, 2011, 03:21:59 AM »

Estorya-estorya lang gud ta. Magbayloay sa mga huna-huna ug pangindahay. Bisan ug usahay managlahi ang atong gituohan, ipabilin gihapon ang atong pagkamanaghigalaay.

Mahitungod sa kaso ni Angelo Reyes, murag lisud e-conclude kung asa siya ibutang sa Ginoo kay we are mere mortals and creations of God. Dili pud ko makaingon gani nga mahilangit si Dr. Jose Rizal. Dili pud ko makaingon nga ma-impyerno si Hitler. Adto na ni nato mahibaloan sa gitawag ug "Day of Judgment" when God will exercise His authority as the one and only Judge.

Pero kabahin sa kaluwasan, adunay assurance nga gihatag ang Ginoo. Ato ning mahinuktokan sa dihang miingon si Jesus sa usa ka ka-watan (kadtong ka-watan nga mituo ni Jesus) gilansang tupad sa Iyang kilid didto sa krus sa Kalbaryo: "And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with me in paradise." (King James Version)

Sa Bisaya miingon si Jesus: "Sa pagkatinuod, sa pagkatinuod, magaingon ako kanimo, karong adlawa mahiuban ka nako ngadto sa paraiso."

Buhi pa ang maong tawo ug aduna na siyay kasigurohan sa kaluwasan.

Pero mahitungod sa pagkalaglag sa kalag ngadto sa impyerno, kitang tawo dili ta katugkad sa huna-huna sa Ginoo. Kay Siya man ang naay gitawag ug "final say." Ug Siya lang pud ang makakita sa kasing-kasing sa tawo.

Kitang tawo, ang atong makita puro external. Ang Ginoo ang Iyang makita tanan: external ug internal. Mao sa John 21:22, natunok si Peter sa gitubag sa Ginoo. Daghan na to ug sala si Judas, ang pinakagrabe ang pagbudhi ug paghikog. Apan bisan pa man niining tanan, miingon si Jesus sa pinolosopo pa nga estorya sa bag-ong panahon:

"Kung mahilangit o ma-impyerno si Judas, unsay may imong labot Pedro? Ako ang magbuot. Ang mahinungdanon nga mosunod ka nako ug sa akong mga sugo." - John 21:22

This is a powerful point. I acquiesce to this verse.

Thank You , Michael.

Tinuod bitaw imong gi ingon, Mike. Estorya estorya ra man ni atua, pero , naa pood respect sa atong postings. Dili lang i poke-fun ang comments and remarks. Dili man jud na maayo. Ug maayong tawo nga gusto mag pa honest, ajaw pood mag buwang buwang imong comments on how fat or how you don't like a person's look. It minimizes one's point.

My point is, we are all intellectual minds in here. No one is being pretentious, but rather, sharing our points of views (they will differ from person to person), but keep everything civil. Poking fun of how people look, joking on one's relationship and sharing how one finds it disgusting is unecessary and very unchristian-like.

We are all Bol-anons, or honorary Bol-anons in here. So let there be no negativity in our comments. No need to hit below the belt.

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Lorenzo · « **Reply #156 on:** February 20, 2011, 03:24:25 AM »

I will hug and "amen" you when you get down from that pedestal. Misery loves company. And it's hot in here, boy. Come down and join the madla!!!

hahaha. Fr. but i am shorter than you. Wa lagi ko sa pedestal.

How can a poor student, inundated with medical loan debt, stressed with work, and being grilled constantly by his superiors ever be in a pedestal?

i am officially a slave at work.

~~

but any case, so long as i get to sit next to you, then let me be miserable with you.

so long as you give me a san miguel beer ha? (just like the time that night with the PUPPIES).

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Lorenzo · « **Reply #157 on:** February 20, 2011, 03:29:05 AM »

Do I have to repeat it that I don't need your respect? Give that respect to yourself, maybe it will be better appreciated.

You say that you are just an average individual. You are absolutely right. It is not the fact of sharing information that makes you pretentious, but the way you do so. But then again, you probably have to live a little bit longer to understand what I'm saying.

If i may have sounded pretentious to you, Nong, please know that it was not intended to be pretentious. Perhaps you should not judge me as pretentious intellectually when you have not ever met me, nor ever talked to me face to face.

This forum does not define us as individuals. Nor does it show everything that we do, believe in, and fight for.

Even if you do not deserve my respect, the fact that you are older than I , is requirement to give my respect.

I was raised in the Boholano way, of showing filial piety. Respect for elders.

Thank you for your view, and I hope that we can now behave more civilly with each other.

I take everything you say into consideration.

Truly.

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hubag bohol · « **Reply #158 on:** February 20, 2011, 03:29:40 AM »

My point is, we are all intellectual minds in here.

Really? Bwahaha!

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chicogon · « **Reply #159 on:** February 20, 2011, 03:29:59 AM »

Estorya-estorya lang gud ta. Magbayloay sa mga huna-huna ug pangindahay. Bisan ug usahay managlahi ang atong gituohan, ipabilin gihapon ang atong pagkamanaghigalaay.

Mahitungod sa kaso ni Angelo Reyes, murag lisud e-conclude kung asa siya ibutang sa Ginoo kay we are mere mortals and creations of God. Dili pud ko makaingon gani nga mahilangit si Dr. Jose Rizal. Dili pud ko makaingon nga ma-impyerno si Hitler. Adto na ni nato mahibaloan sa gitawag ug "Day of Judgment" when God will exercise His authority as the one and only Judge.

Pero kabahin sa kaluwasan, adunay assurance nga gihatag ang Ginoo. Ato ning mahinuktokan sa dihang miingon si Jesus sa usa ka ka-watan (kadtong ka-watan nga mituo ni Jesus) gilansang tupad sa Iyang kilid didto sa krus sa Kalbaryo: "And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with me in paradise." (King James Version)

Sa Bisaya miingon si Jesus: "Sa pagkatinuod, sa pagkatinuod, magaingon ako kanimo, karong adlawa mahiuban ka nako ngadto sa paraiso."

Buhi pa ang maong tawo ug aduna na siyay kasigurohan sa kaluwasan.

Pero mahitungod sa pagkalaglag sa kalag ngadto sa impyerno, kitang tawo dili ta katugkad sa huna-huna sa Ginoo. Kay Siya man ang naay gitawag ug "final say." Ug Siya lang pud ang makakita sa kasing-kasing sa tawo.

Kitang tawo, ang atong makita puro external. Ang Ginoo ang Iyang makita tanan: external ug internal. Mao sa John 21:22, natunok si Peter sa gitubag sa Ginoo. Daghan na to ug sala si Judas, ang pinakagrabe ang pagbudhi ug paghikog. Apan bisan pa man niining tanan, miingon si Jesus sa pinolosopo pa nga estorya sa bag-ong panahon:

"Kung mahilangit o ma-impyerno si Judas, unsay may imong labot Pedro? Ako ang magbuot. Ang mahinungdanon nga mosunod ka nako ug sa akong mga sugo." - John 21:22

Amen!!!

Kadugayan moluhod na jud ko ani kay magsige na lang tag ingon ug "amen."

It's good to admit sa atong pagka tawhanon and dare not tread on something which has not been assigned to us.

"For fools rush in where angels fear to tread"

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Lorenzo · « **Reply #160 on:** February 20, 2011, 03:31:23 AM »

Really? Bwahaha!

Of course. Tubag Bohol Dot Com is different from other forums.

This forum brings out the bright minds. This is why this forum is continuing to stay strong even after 4 years of existence.

Tubag Bohol thrives on intellectual minds.

You yourself, Nong, are an intellectual.

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Lorenzo · « **Reply #161 on:** February 20, 2011, 03:32:06 AM »

Amen!!!

Kadugayan moluhod na jud ko ani kay magsige na lang tag ingon ug "amen."

It's good to admit sa atong pagka tawhanon and dare not tread on something which has not been assigned to us.

"For fools rush in where angels fear to tread"

You are right. I will acquiesce to this. I have been soundly corrected.

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pioneer · « **Reply #162 on:** February 20, 2011, 03:34:28 AM »

Pwede ba nga mo-propose ko nga ato na ni isira (lock) nga thread aron dili na masumpayan ang panaglantugi nga wala lang unyay sangputanan?

Atong hinumduman nga samtang sa atong pagkukabildo, adunay mga bana nga gidunggaban sa asawa kay wa i-date niadtong Valentines Day.

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hubag bohol · « **Reply #163 on:** February 20, 2011, 03:35:45 AM »

If i may have sounded pretentious to you, Nong, please know that it was not intended to be pretentious. Perhaps you should not judge me as pretentious intellectually when you have not ever met me, nor ever talked to me face to face.

I think you're pretentious only as far as this forum goes. I don't discount the possibility that, in person, you will strike me as even more so.

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hubag bohol · « **Reply #164 on:** February 20, 2011, 03:38:21 AM »

Pwede ba nga mo-propose ko nga ato na ni isira (lock) nga thread aron dili na masumpayan ang panaglantugi nga wala lang unyay sangputanan?

Isira, no problem with me. Pero kuydawo nga naay papason nga post...

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Lorenzo · « **Reply #165 on:** February 20, 2011, 03:39:04 AM »

I respect that there will always be differences. Note that civility will be initiated.

Mike. There is no need to lock this thread. It should remain open for us to discuss the subject matter.

I will no longer entertain unrelated material in this thread.

Let us get back to the subject.

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Lorenzo · « **Reply #166 on:** February 20, 2011, 03:40:36 AM »

I think you're pretentious only as far as this forum goes. I don't discount the possibility that, in person, you will strike me as even more so.

You have every right to think and believe what you chose to believe, Nong.
I said all that I had to say.

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hubag bohol · « **Reply #167 on:** February 20, 2011, 03:42:16 AM »

You have every right to think and believe what you chose to believe, Nong.
I have said all I had to say.

You said earlier (just recently erased) that you're done with me. I was done with you long ago.

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chicogon · « **Reply #168 on:** February 20, 2011, 03:47:20 AM »

You are right. I will acquiesce to this. I have been soundly corrected.

Thank you. The next time you decide to go back UP again to enjoy mountaineering, please bring us along. While misery loves company, so do adventure and enlightenment!!! Let's bring the Dalai Lama along!!!

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Lorenzo · « **Reply #169 on:** February 20, 2011, 03:48:51 AM »

Trust me, I tried, Nong. I was done with you long ago, but something within me thought that differences could be put aside, and hostilities ceased. The case here is not me, but you.

But, as in the case of Angelo Reyes, one cannot resuscitate what is already gone.

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Lorenzo · « **Reply #170 on:** February 20, 2011, 03:50:18 AM »

Thank you. The next time you decide to go back UP again to enjoy mountaineering, please bring us along. While misery loves company, so do adventure and enlightenment!!! Let's bring the Dalai Lama along!!!

Hahaha. Just for you, Pops.

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Lorenzo · « **Reply #171 on:** February 20, 2011, 03:54:08 AM »

It was really frustrating, for me, as a Filipino that he killed himself just like that. i think it was an easy way out for him, so frustrating, because the truth didnt come up. and what about the high hierarchy of the corrupt people behind of Mr. Reyes? will just laugh out loud kasi abswelto na naman sila? God Bless, Philippines!

No he did not. He died without honor. There is no honor in suicide.

An honorable death is Jesus on the Cross. Dying for those who are not deservant of life.

An honorable death is that of Pope John Paul II, who died preaching , and who forgave his would be assassin Mehmet Ali Ağca , even befriending him in the process.

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hubag bohol · « **Reply #172 on:** February 20, 2011, 04:00:48 AM »

This forum brings out the bright minds. This is why this forum is continuing to stay strong even after 4 years of existence.

I can but admire your impeccable logic.

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hubag bohol · « **Reply #173 on:** February 20, 2011, 04:04:32 AM »

Trust me, I tried, Nong. I was done with you long ago, but something within me thought that differences could be put aside, and hostilities ceased. The case here is not me, but you.

But, as in the case of Angelo Reyes, one cannot resuscitate what is already gone.

After your gratuitous injuries upon me, you sought the "Sacrament of Reconciliation" from me. Unfortunately, unlike you, I'm not God.

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hubag bohol · « **Reply #174 on:** February 20, 2011, 04:06:49 AM »

I'm not even a tiny portion of who Fr. Chic is.

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Lorenzo · « **Reply #175 on:** February 20, 2011, 04:14:47 AM »

No one is God but God, Nong. Correctohon lang ka nako in case your mind is a bit off.

No you are not like Fr. Roel. That is true.

Back to the topic.

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chicogon · « **Reply #176 on:** February 20, 2011, 04:18:29 AM »

I'm not even a tiny portion of who Fr. Chic is.

Ssssh. Pasanginlan na sad ko ay. I don't claim to be somebody (maybe a some "body" for I never stop to expand) nor a nobody. I'm ChicogoN. No more, no less. Who started this Fr. Chic?

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chicogon · « **Reply #177 on:** February 20, 2011, 04:20:14 AM »

No one is God but God, Nong. Correctohon lang ka nako in case your mind is a bit off.

No you are not like Fr. Roel. That is true.

Back to the topic.

If you call me Chic and him Hubag, then maybe we're one and the same.

Hubagang Chic woi!!!

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Lorenzo · « **Reply #178 on:** February 20, 2011, 04:23:03 AM »

If you call me Chic and him Hubag, then maybe we're one and the same.

Hubagang Chic woi!!!

I must say that that is the first time I ever heard of that term, 'Hubagang Chic', Father. Isn't that a term for a pregnant woman?
lol joke!

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hubag bohol · « **Reply #179 on:** February 20, 2011, 04:23:05 AM »

No one is God but God, Nong. Correctohon lang ka nako in case your mind is a bit off.

No you are not like Fr. Roel. That is true.

Back to the topic.

OK, back to the topic. You said, and I quote:

Suicide is an unpardonable Sin. His soul is now burning in eternal fires of hell.

Bwahaha!

Hilom na tawon, Doy, oi. Ajaw palabig jama-jama. Go to other threads, leave this one alone kay di na ka kapanghambog diri.

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Lorenzo · « **Reply #180 on:** February 20, 2011, 04:27:05 AM »

So you are saying that Revelations holds no standing? Nor does the passage from 1 John?

Dili ni jamama ahong gi tugan, Nong. Basis ni sa Biblical passage. Dili Protestant Bible , by the way, but from the Catholic one.

Tho there really is no difference in Protestant and Catholic versions of the bible in regards to the passages in Book of Revelation.

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hubag bohol · « **Reply #181 on:** February 20, 2011, 04:30:20 AM »

Ssssh. Pasanginlan na sad ko ay. I don't claim to be somebody (maybe a some "body" for I never stop to expand) nor a nobody. I'm ChicogoN. No more, no less. Who started this Fr. Chic?

Well, I take you as somebody who knows Catholicism better than anyone else is this forum, that's all. You're Chicogon to me, yes, will all the due respect I give to everyone who deserves it. I started calling you Fr. Chic when I noticed others deferring to you. Otherwise, I treat you as an equal, however presumptuous that might sound.

Bitaw, parehas man ta sa atong attitude diri ba, mag-serious lang kon mapiit...

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chicogon · « **Reply #182 on:** February 20, 2011, 04:34:38 AM »

Bitaw, parehas man ta sa atong attitude diri ba, mag-serious lang kon mapiit...

Morag iring... mopyaet lang kung maipit.

Apan sa panahon sa linaw, kamolog harana ug togtog sa musika sa kasadya...

Si Gracia ga una2x aning Fr. Chic...

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Lorenzo · « **Reply #183 on:** February 20, 2011, 04:35:11 AM »

It is just lately when Senator Miriam Defensor-Santiago regarded the AFP's retired Secretary General Angelo Reyes as "a dead man walking", because of his involvement in the recently unveiled corruption in AFP funds. Today, people are staggered upon hearing the news telling that Angelo Reyes is dead. He is dead not because he was killed but rather he committed suicide.

Earlier today, at exactly 8:32 in the morning, retired General Angelo Reyes of AFP was declared dead by the Quirino hospital doctors who tried to save his life. He was brought to the hospital by concerned citizens who found him wounded and blooded at the Loyola Memorial Park at around 7:00 this morning. According to the witnesses, the General shot himself right in front of his parents' grave.

People are now asking if what makes the ex-general killed himself. Would it be the recent AFP issue involving himself? Does it mean he is guilty as charged?

When Sen. Miriam Defensor-Santiago said the Reyes is a "dead man walking", for sure the secretary did not think of the general's actual death. It is just a metaphor that somehow portrays the current and future life Reyes has and is supposed to face. And somehow, Santiago's words coincide on the latest suicidal act of General Reyes. Perhaps, Reyes thought that there is no way for him to escape from being punished. But that is, if he really thought he is guilty as charged.

Just with the testimony given by Commission On Audit (COA) auditor Heidi Mendoza, people can tell how credible the accusation against the ex-generals of AFP is. And basing on the replies of the accused personnel during the Senate hearings, people can also sense a lie. Yet, they remained consistent with their answer that goes, "Sorry, I couldn't remember." Therefore, it is more than just an accusation. It is but the truth that these whistleblowers and witnesses are trying to disclose, to let all Filipinos become aware of it.

The truth regarding corruption in military funds is now becoming a widespread buzz online and offline. As a matter of fact, this issue has already reached the United Nations, where AFP's Php200 million fund really came from. It was given as UN's donation for the Armed Forces of the Philippines, for the betterment of the Philippine army. But the leaking issue on AFP fund scam has really disappointed the United Nations, saying that their donation was just misused. Like the Philippines, the United Nations is also conducting relevant investigation on this matter.

Considering that not only the Philippines' Senate Blue Ribbon Committee is investigating the issue, maybe Reyes came to realize that he has no escape. Perhaps, he could neither sleep nor eat. As an ex-military, he only has two possible alternatives, either admit it and be punished or end everything by killing himself. He made up his mind and today, he chose to do the latter. And now Angelo Reyes is dead.

http://ezinearticles.com/?What-Triggers-Ex-Secretary-General-Angelo-Reyes-Suicidal-Act?&id=5878675

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hubag bohol · « **Reply #184 on:** February 20, 2011, 04:37:48 AM »

So you are saying that Revelations holds no standing? Nor does the passage from 1 John?

Dili ni jamama ahong gi tugan, Nong. Basis ni sa Biblical passage. Dili Protestant Bible , by the way, but from the Catholic one.

Tho there really is no difference in Protestant and Catholic versions of the bible in regards to the passages in Book of Rev

Unya, tell me Yes or No, sakto tong imong giingon nga:

Suicide is an unpardonable Sin. His soul is now burning in eternal fires of hell.

Ha? Ayaw dihag lihay-lihay! Naminaw si Fr. Chic. Sigi, birada! Mora man pud tag buringog ani!

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Lorenzo · « **Reply #185 on:** February 20, 2011, 04:40:03 AM »

This response was from kemjiu in response to the question " why did Angelo Reyes commit suicide" ?

Guilt's are the worst thing that maybe didn't make him rest a while, it keep his thoughts loaded by shame and embarrassment that he give within himself, his family, friends and government institution that he is working with during his active service.

Such action prove his selfishness because he didn't even bother to clean his name, but we can't assume and fully understood what's really behind on him about said actions, maybe deeply, there are something more that this scandalous issue may divulge towards him and people's involve, and ending his life will not going to submerge other people into the grave of disgrace.

The question is, is such action really helps, I think NO.

http://ph.answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20110208232928AACnXa5

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Lorenzo · « **Reply #186 on:** February 20, 2011, 04:46:21 AM »

From odlanyer:

Easy way out. I don't mean to disrespect him but that's how I feel about this. I don't believed that GMA has nothing to do with these corruptions. These things has been happening for a long long time. It was just being ignored because of their cuts.
If he live, he don't have a choice but to tell and implicate those people involved and I'm pretty sure he's trying to avoid doing that.
Corruption in the Philippines is a cancer with no panacea. It is in an advance decaying stage. Hopeless. Sorry to say.

http://ph.answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20110208232928AACnXa5

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Lorenzo · « **Reply #187 on:** February 20, 2011, 04:50:29 AM »

What does Revelation say, Nong? What does the Book of Revelation Chapter 21 say, Nong?

And The Lord said unto me, â€œIt is done! I am the Alpha and the Omega, the beginning and the end. To the thirsty I will give from the spring of the water of life without payment. The one who conquers will have this heritage, and I will be his God and he will be my son. But as for the cowardly, the faithless, the detestable, as for murderers, the sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars, their portion will be in the lake that burns with fire and sulfur, which is the second death.â€

Revelation 21: 7-8

http://www.usccb.org/nab/bible/revelation/revelation21.htm

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hubag bohol · « **Reply #188 on:** February 20, 2011, 04:55:55 AM »

What does Revelation say, Nong? What does the Book of Revelation Chapter 21 say, Nong?

And The Lord said unto me, â€œIt is done! I am the Alpha and the Omega, the beginning and the end. To the thirsty I will give from the spring of the water of life without payment. The one who conquers will have this heritage, and I will be his God and he will be my son. But as for the cowardly, the faithless, the detestable, as for murderers, the sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars, their portion will be in the lake that burns with fire and sulfur, which is the second death.â€

Revelation 21: 7-8

http://www.usccb.org/nab/bible/revelation/revelation21.htm

Hilom na, oi. Stop your ravings, please. Wa nay tumong nang imong quotations. It's already Sunday in other parts of the world, don't spoil it.

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Lorenzo · « **Reply #189 on:** February 20, 2011, 04:57:13 AM »

Dili na ravings, Nong. From The Holy Bible, Nong. Direct passage.

From the Catholic Holy Bible, Nong.

And The Lord said unto me, “It is done! I am the Alpha and the Omega, the beginning and the end. To the thirsty I will give from the spring of the water of life without payment. The one who conquers will have this heritage, and I will be his God and he will be my son. But as for the cowardly, the faithless, the detestable, as for murderers, the sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars, their portion will be in the lake that burns with fire and sulfur, which is the second death.”

Revelation 21: 7-8

http://www.usccb.org/nab/bible/revelation/revelation21.htm

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chicogon · « **Reply #190 on:** February 20, 2011, 04:59:10 AM »

I rest my case. Now I know why some people go on despair and some even to the point of jumping onto the cliff. Care to join me? LoL

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Lorenzo · « **Reply #191 on:** February 20, 2011, 05:01:03 AM »

Jesus Christ is directly telling St John the Divine of the things to come.

Hence its inclusion in the Holy Bible , as compiled by the same Roman Catholic Church.

Christ's Word are not ravings, from last I remember, but the basis of All Things.

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hubag bohol · « **Reply #192 on:** February 20, 2011, 05:01:27 AM »

I rest my case. Now I know why some people go on despair and some even to the point of jumping onto the cliff. Care to join me? LoL

Bwahaha! Oh well, I shouldn't have tried in the first place...

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Lorenzo · « **Reply #193 on:** February 20, 2011, 05:05:10 AM »

I rest my case. Now I know why some people go on despair and some even to the point of jumping onto the cliff. Care to join me? LoL

Ajaw pood, Fr. The point that I was making to Nong H was that the basis of earlier declarative was from Revelations Chapter 21.

From my understanding, suicide is murder. Self murder. Diba?

Hence my emphasis in its inclusion. However, since the Church issued ammendments on Suicide, we are now secured that perdition isn't immediate for suicide cases. Since there is a possibility of being placed in purgatory. But do you understand where I saw my point--using Revelation Chapter 21, verses 7 to 8 as a primary source. ?

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hubag bohol · « **Reply #194 on:** February 20, 2011, 05:08:23 AM »

He he, I feel so foolish, and then some.

Hmm. Here are some foolish words to go by:

Last words are for fools who haven't said enough. --Karl Marx

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Lorenzo · « **Reply #195 on:** February 20, 2011, 05:12:07 AM »

haha. c'mon nong. you asked me about my declarative. i gave you the primary source. and now you're getting all side-tracked.

aguy, here we go again with the quotations / indirect remarks.

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Lorenzo · « **Reply #196 on:** February 20, 2011, 05:14:13 AM »

I rest my case. Now I know why some people go on despair and some even to the point of jumping onto the cliff. Care to join me? LoL

lol. so long as the cliff is no higher than 40 feet, and so long as there is water underneath the cliff (deep enough to survive the fall).

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Raquelproud boholana · « **Reply #197 on:** February 20, 2011, 08:43:04 AM »

Sa tinuod lang naay daghan point si Lorenzo ug si Padre pud. Kanindot unta siguro no ug makapadala pa ug suwat si Angelo Reyes ug asa na siya karon dapita gibutang sa Ginoo. Ang ato ra jud mahimo is permi nalang nato siya i include sa atong mga pag ampo kay wala man siguroy ma waste sa prayer bisan pag asa na siya dapita.

I have important question here for everybody. Nakasuway na ba mo nga na depressed? I suffer postpartum depression after my son Matthew was born. At first wala ko kabalo ug nganong na ingon ato ko hehehhe. I always find myself in our basement nga maghunahuna ug maghikog. I was so mesirable kay bisan pagligo sa akong anak mahadlok ko kay akong feeling basin ako siyang malumsan nga wala ko kabalo. Mokalit lang ko ug hilak nga walay hinungdan ug sa akong hunahuna kung makakubot lang ko ug pusil adtong higayuna murag pusilon siguro nako akong kaugalingon. Wala ko mo seek ug medical help kay akong pagtuo normal ra siguro ni abi nako tanan nakaagi ug ingon ani labi na human ug panganak. Kara naa koy suicidal episode magsegi ko ug pray ug rosary unya read the catholic book dogma of hell. Hangtud nga medyo naulian ra baya ko adto. Comes the second and third child ug mao gihapon to until nakabasa ko ug article about postpartum depression. Bisan akong bana nagwonder nganong permi ra ko magsira ug gusto mag segi ug inusara. Then I told him nga for long time I was suffering inside akong gidetalye tanan niya. Ang tawong depressed normal outside but inside she is raging a battle. Ang tawong depressed dili na makahunahuna ug unsay sala ug unsay dili.
Nakahunahuna ba ko nga katong naay koy suicidal episode nga sala to? NO wala ang akoa lang gihunahuna adto is gusto ko humanon ang akong misery.
Ingbilib kaayo tong psychologist nga nagtabang nako kay maayo daw akong approach adtong mga higayuna nga nagsegi ko ug basa ug religious books ug segi rosaryo.

My point here is ug clear atong hunahuna makabalo gyud ta nga sala ang suicide pero if you are in deep misery malimot na gyud ka unsa ang sala ug unsa ang dili.

Most people commit suicide are not in their right mind. To commit a mortal sin you have to have full consent of the will. How can you have full consent of your will when your not in your right mind to commit suicide?
Ang nahitabo ni Angie is wala gyud ni siya sa iyang right mind kay laliman ba gud kadako sa iyang kasong atubangon.

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Lorenzo · « **Reply #198 on:** February 20, 2011, 08:58:59 AM »

Kining situwason nimo, Raquel, physiology man na kai after you give birth, your hormone levels , specifically your progesterone and estrogen levels are incredibly unbalanced, namely the fact that progesterone was necessary to maintain the pregnancy. All of the sudden, at the expulsion of the child from your body, your endocrine aparatus no longer is required to produce such high levels of progesterone as well as estrogen. So the levels fall. This abrupt fall in hormones triggers a dopamine effect. The increase dopamine is physiologically needed as it works in conjunction with prolactin, oxytocin in order to produce maternal milk for the child. The rapid fall in progesterone, estrogen levels and sharp increase in dopamine is responsible for the symptoms of depression. In this case, it is called post-partum depression (post partum blues).

Clinically, the effects of depression is an altered mental status. But the levels of depression differs and symptoms differ as well. In cases of acute manic episodes, one's mental state / state of mind is hindered.

In the case of Angelo Reyes, could his suicide be due to an acute manic episode? Possibly? It could have been. Possibly. However, in cases of acute manic episodes , one looses the state of reality, and cannot differentiate what is real and unreal. This could even fall in line in the diagnosis of a acute schizoid / brief schizotypal disorder. Functionality of persons with such incidences is dim to none.

Reyes was able to drive to his late mother's grave that day. Days prior he conversed with his family, ate with them, and even wrote a letter of apology for what he was going to due. This means that there was no altered mental status. He was in his right frame of mind.

For persons with depression, the level of clinical depression , as i said earlier, depends on symptomology. In your case, you thought of hurting yourself, but the very fact that you feared bathing your son in case of a suicidal incident, indicates a minimally altered mental status. Your control of the situation, your condition and your management of symptoms proves you had efficent control. Management in your case was praying and reading catholic material. Psychologically speaking , positive reinforcement helps to deter negative actions. Your innate religiosity, positive religious factors, played a role in the psychodynamic control of symptoms.

In regards to Reyes , he also had control. Had he no control, he would not have been able to write a letter, nor function properly without the noticing of his family and friends. He had will and he had intent. He knew what he was doing, he knew the consequence of his actions, yet he did it anyway.

He was a liar. A corrupt official who cooperated with corrupt leaders at the expense of the people. He was proud. Proud enough to protect his identity , proud that he did not want to suffer a judicial hearing before the Courta Suprema sa Filipinas. And he was a murderer. He killed himself.
He entered eternity in a state of disgrace. Had he feared his God, he would have known that God's Judgement was far more severe than man's law and man's justice.

Revelations 21: 7-8 says,
7 The one who conquers will have this heritage, and I will be his God and he will be my son. 8 But as for the cowardly, the faithless, the detestable, as for murderers, the sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars, their portion will be in the lake that burns with fire and sulfur, which is the second death.

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Lorenzo · « **Reply #199 on:** February 20, 2011, 09:21:41 AM »

1. 1 Corinthians 10:31 reveal that the Holy Spirit dwells in those who are saved. It is our responsibility to treat Him with respect, and suicide is not appropriate.

2. Genesis 1:26,27 (and similar verses) reveal that we are made in the image of God. This is one of the reasons we are not allowed to murder (see Genesis 9:6,7), so again suicide would be a bad thing.

3. The Bible teaches us to trust, depend on, and believe in God throughout its length. (Romans 8:28 is one example.) To take your own life would show no faith in God. Notice that although the prophets, apostles, and Jesus Christ were persecuted, tortured, and put to death; they did not commit suicide for an “easy out.” They “fought the good fight” to the end (see 2 Timothy 4:6-8).

4. Be aware of how suicide affects other people’s opinion of the person who died. It is common for people to wonder if someone who commits suicide went to heaven. That is a poor testimony for a “Christian warrior.”

There is no defense of sin. No defense against a counter , a direct counter of the Word of God.

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