MikeLigalig.com

Quote from: windgate on June 06, 2010, 11:19:42 AM
unsa na may update ani nga kaso?

an update will be issued  in the next 4 weeks as some valuable information has been given

its a shame no one remembers its 12 months since the murder,i now am willing to increase the reward to 100,000 peso for information leading to the coviction of those involved and helped plan it ,we know the ones behind it the farther in law is bragging about how they got away with it

Quote from: crusaderfreedom on May 15, 2009, 03:47:12 AM
  WHY CANYOU NOT REPLY TO THE QUESTIONS

FIRST REQUEST OF QUESTIONS FOR YOU TO REPLY TO

Quote from: crusaderfreedom on May 28, 2009, 03:53:58 PM
Oh Mhargie /or other sudanames,can you reply to any of the following as you cannot seem to answer previous ones,
1;You have stated that you was Martins next of kin and entitled to everything in his estate,If this is the case ,Then why was you and your family pestering Martins parents for money when it would be your responsibility,
2" If you had no money to pay for the funeral why??order the most expensive coffin and funeral ,when a normal range coffin would survice
3"why you and your friends came on the phone demanding £3,500 aprox(260,000,peso and the come back for another £1,000 aprox (75,000 peso) even if you cremated Martin at most it would cost 150,000 peso,even though you new Martins parents wished him cremated and his ashes returned to his country of birth and offered to pay for this ,all you did was threaten to take them to court
4, What happenend to the 80,000 peso the police gave you in peso and pounds with the rest of his effects along with the 150,000 peso from the sale of his truck,200,000 peso cash from his 2 bank accounts,cash from his cash deposit boxes and in his office,cash from the sale of good quality table and chairs from his bar,and his drum kit,and where is his motorbike
5, you say you love him YET you show this by continuing with false allegations
6 why call everyone names instead of answering the allegations against you
7 why did you take all Martins personal documents when you left knowing that he could do nothing without them
8,you said that martin new you went to England, The truth is that you hid the fact where you was with Amy and arranged with your sister to sneak back to England before your visa ran out and tried to renew it with out Martin knowing ,as this was what you was using Martin for But the immagration saw through your plan and refused the visa

WELL
wELL IT NEARLY THREE MONTHS MHARGIE SINCE YOU HAD YOUR HUSBAND MURDED HAVE YOU THE DECENCY TO REPLY TO ANY THE THE QUATIONS ASKED AND ARE REPEATED HEAR,OR ARE YOU TO GUILTY TO REPLY

Well Chona or Mhargie,Still no reply to the questions we all asked,or is it that your scared to reply (we can repeat them) as one of the corrupt police arrested was your uncle and was involved in the Murder ? we see you are running the bar you never liked or wanted when he was alive,with staff you bribed to make false accusations against Martin?is this a coincidence ?.Hope you don't get shot at like Martin did,But then we forgot it was you that arranged it

Quote from: Newbie on May 28, 2009, 11:18:11 PM
No Renegade the other four are pointing at you!!!

Quotes
we have a saying live by the gun die by the gun
and live by the sword die by the sword
it will be done to you as what you did to others

Oh Mhargie /or other sudanames,can you reply to any of the following as you cannot seem to answer previous ones,
1;You have stated that you was Martins next of kin and entitled to everything in his estate,If this is the case ,Then why was you and your family pestering Martins parents for money when it would be your responsibility,
2" If you had no money to pay for the funeral why??order the most expensive coffin and funeral ,when a normal range coffin would survice
3"why you and your friends came on the phone demanding £3,500 aprox(260,000,peso and the come back for another £1,000 aprox (75,000 peso) even if you cremated Martin at most it would cost 150,000 peso,even though you new Martins parents wished him cremated and his ashes returned to his country of birth and offered to pay for this ,all you did was threaten to take them to court
4, What happenend to the 80,000 peso the police gave you in peso and pounds with the rest of his effects along with the 150,000 peso from the sale of his truck,200,000 peso cash from his 2 bank accounts,cash from his cash deposit boxes and in his office,cash from the sale of good quality table and chairs from his bar,and his drum kit,and where is his motorbike
5, you say you love him YET you show this by continuing with false allegations
6 why call everyone names instead of answering the allegations against you
7 why did you take all Martins personal documents when you left knowing that he could do nothing without them
8,you said that martin new you went to England, The truth is that you hid the fact where you was with Amy and arranged with your sister to sneak back to England before your visa ran out and tried to renew it with out Martin knowing ,as this was what you was using Martin for But the immagration saw through your plan and refused the visa

 it does make you think??? what you say,we need the people that knows the wife's sisters and family to tell the truth

Quote from: Guy Matabao on May 21, 2009, 06:02:01 PM
It is very difficult if people just keep moaning and making conclusions without facts. If you have the evidence or links then why not tell the police/NBI or hire a lawyer to present it. Don't accuse the police of being corrupt and ill-trained. In the world today, what causes the credit crunch? It is due to corruption and fraud by people in the financial institution. The latest one, British Parliament members spending taxpayers money for extravagant personal expenses, such as claiming housing allowances and etc. (read in the internet). In the Philippines, I read the lifestyles of Mr. Martin in the enternet, he is typical strike anywhere guy who likes plenty of women around him. Remember, Bohol culture is not like that.
I support for justice, equal rights and oppurtunities for all the people involved, whether they are my friends or not. Thanks.

Matabao has no idea what he is talking about he is a Filipino who has bought into the wives choreography of women being allegedly raped ,sounds like a puppet for Martin 's wife does he need  strings to add so he can do a song and dance beside her?
You are right Justice, there is plenty of documented materials but why would you put it  into the hands of the police when it is being smeared by them.
to cover up one of there own.
As for Matabao he does not do his homework or does his thinking so well does he?
Hello if your  one of them girls ask to do a favor by a women who you know is capable of five previous other homicides against her husband as were mentioned in court affidavits then I think if you are them you would be scared to not lie being raped or she could hurt one of them also.
Why do you think Gulle does not talk? he does not want his family to be hurt same style in how the wife killed her husband.
Three men were involved in this killing not Gulle just by himself he was way too little and the autopsy talks as b*** walks. So as far as evedence what more do you need?
And about those alleged rape cases they were dismissed as considered way far fetched and ridiculous.
  And for the continued hatredness that wife showed even  when going to the police with the girls just after her husband was found murdered ,shows more hatredness and even more motive to have killed him does it not?
Lets throw the ball  back at you Mr Matabao..... Whats the eveidence that keeps the police from treating the wife not as a suspect when they know good god damn well that autopsy is out and contradicts all what gulle and the wife have said all along?
As for corrupt police why was it that Napolcom had a court order to go after a Mansasa Tanod while by passing the City Police force in tagbilaran?
I think we do have the evidence and you just have hurt sensitive feelings. We are not saying all police are bad but we are partail to the one who just got arrested for murder in Tagbilaran in a fatal shotting in mansasa as one of them are possibly related to Martins wife.
Maybe he also killed Martin as well ?how else could the police get in touch so fast with the wife if nothing was remaining on the victim? Someone from the police was involved its the only way.?
Why else did the police smear up the case because they are out to protect they're own.
The newspapers do not ,always print the correct info always as it did say he was in court having alleged rape charges against him, the same ones that were dismissed.
  Copy of resolutions involving the "HITMAN" and the alleged rape are at Tagbilaran Fiscal Office.  Anything else Mr. Matabao.
Do you know Martin personally or are you busy with the mistress?
And talking about corrution in the British goverment look at your own first ?this is about corrupt Police not goverment

I have heard that the city police station in Tagbilaran has recieve a fax message from our British Embassy and they are requesting updates and any special reports being done with the case of Martin.
I also heard that the police are also spreading such words around that the British National had several girlfriends!!!
How unprofessional on the PNP side and also how biased as they did not  know Martin personally when he was alive. The only thing they are aware of are the choreographed attempts of the wife who took the women to the police station saying they were allegedly raped even after his murder.
I am so sick of this sittuation in how it is being treated since the autopsy report was out over a month from Cebu NBI and sent to British Authorities overhere one month ago .
Only if the rest of you reading this topic could know the results of his autopsy and knowing nothing has been done you too would also be mad at this point.
If what is being said here is true about his wife being related to a police in which I heard that she had a relative working on the police force then this would sound like a beautiful case of covering up one of your own.

I recieved the following that was sent by a concerned BOHOL person to my personal message box,and think in fairness should be printed.
EVERYDAY i HAVE BEEN  following the Blog about Martin 's murder.An average person who have no knowledge of law would also think the wife is behind the murder.I have seen similar murder case like that in forensic files.It was ALSO  happen i Philippines but the one who was murder was the american wife of American servicman .They live in Subic since the husband is navy.Then he start having an affair with their maid,it only takes a few thousand pesos and the wife was killed by the maid relatives.She was gruesomely murder also been stab many times,I have a feeling it happen the same way with Martin,Mhargei maybe have no contact with the murdererer but her relatives do all the work, All she have to do is hand them out some money.Now it's sure easy for her to tell everybody that she never know Gulle because it's her family member or whoever she contacted with to hire to murder her husband.
Let's hope the wife can't sleep at night of the awful thing she done and finally confess She can't hide a secret forever.
GOOD LUCK FOR THE FAMILY OF MARTIN AND TO HIS FREINDS IN SEEKING HIS JUSTICE

MAY GOD RETURN OUR BOHOL PROVINCE BACK TO NORMAL AGAIN (end of quote)

Due to the simple non-blind facts in the court and affidavits and court resolutions the false alleged rape that he had to battle with just before he was killed it did mention the police going to girls homes in Panglao in where they were trying to bribe monies of around Philippine peso Five Thousand   (PHP 5000) well would leave one to wonder just how much further are the Police involved Ur:::<??

If Martin was discovered at the hour of 6.30am to 7am.and they say the things are stolen such as wallet and moneyand ID,and he was not weraring a ring either,does the contact person have the cell phone number of MHARGEI?

Then how is it this person who informed her ,that her husband was murdered,know it was Martin?

How did they connect her to being his wife without his ID.all under an hour's timeif she is saying the things were stolen of Martin?

We ask her to post her Police afferdavit so everyone can see what the remaining items left at the crime scene??

you should not have to bring your own case to court ,you would expect to have conferdance in the  authorities of the country you are visiting if anything goes wrong ,as long as you have corruption in the police ,as in this case ,it will not do the tourist trade any good

bebe,chona,abby gei the black widow and the black witch ,you don't need to answer the questions ,and you have failed to so far,if you are innocent,you have no fear?but by giving offensive remarks instead of reasonble answers shows you are hiding your guilt,you might not have used the knife but you are still an accessary to murder with other family members and most likley be guilty,have you no ANSWER to 11 previouse questions ,I have another 8 if you are not scared to answer them ,I wonder if you dare? without being offensive

Quote from: crusaderfreedom on May 14, 2009, 08:27:44 PM
7,with her police connections why did she not ask them to find out who was behind the murder
8, Why did she lie to the police and say she got on well with the family to get the phone,effects and money,when the F C O said the effects should not be given to her
9,WHERE IS THE SIM CARD TO MARTINS PHONE
10,WHERE IS THE PRENUPTIAL
11 WHERE IS HIS WILL

WE STILL WAIT YOUR RESPONSE

Quote from: crusaderfreedom on May 14, 2009, 08:05:36 PM
Mhargei (Gei) or her family,
1,If Gei loved Martin why did she send him and his friends  emails and texts
    threatening him
2,why did she not help to defend martin instead of making unfounded accusations
    if as she told the court that she loved him and only split up in December
3,Why did she take all the important documents and sneak to England without telling him
4,Why did she demand money from Martin;s parents and friends
5,Who was looking after the baby while she was following him around the area and at his bar harassing him
6,Why has she continually tried to blacken his name ,if she loved him,she would have tried to help him prove his innocence or been to a shamed to highlight it all the time

WHY CANYOU NOT REPLY TO THE QUESTIONS

7,with her police connections why did she not ask them to find out who was behind the murder
8, Why did she lie to the police and say she got on well with the family to get the phone,effects and money,when the F C O said the effects should not be given to her
9,WHERE IS THE SIM CARD TO MARTINS PHONE
10,WHERE IS THE PRENUPTIAL
11 WHERE IS HIS WILL

 Mhargei (Gei) or her family,
1,If Gei loved Martin why did she send him and his friends  emails and texts
    threatening him
2,why did she not help to defend martin instead of making unfounded accusations
    if as she told the court that she loved him and only split up in December
3,Why did she take all the important documents and sneak to England without telling him
4,Why did she demand money from Martin;s parents and friends
5,Who was looking after the baby while she was following him around the area and at his bar harassing him
6,Why has she continually tried to blacken his name ,if she loved him,she would have tried to help him prove his innocence or been to a shamed to highlight it all the time

Quote from: ben on May 12, 2009, 08:03:39 AM
One has to wonder why anyone would want to live in the UK when they have the resources to live the good life here.  It is a truly awful, cold, depressing place, populated largely by people who never smile to strangers.
IMHO

we dont want idiots like you or the filippina that lie to enter and bring all the family to live on welfare,if its that bad why do assylam seekers travel across Europe to enter the U.K. Its just arses like you that Dont smile but we welcome the decent Filippina with open arms ,you are correct it is cold ,but the police investagate murder properly not cover up like this as they have connections

Quote from: bebe on May 13, 2009, 12:27:39 AM
thanks for correcting ,well, for what i have heard the grandparents want to see also their grandchild while she grow up and the important they get on with her coz probably they know from their heart the wife is not guilty so why not?she can come anytime of course?

everybody wants to go somewhere else but bcoz she been already in uk for two years im sure she can come anytime or visit withe her british baby as long as the emabassy will give her visa.

What a load of crap,are u gei or mhardie,one minute you call Martins parents names and uncaring next you are saying youre close you are a user and use them to suite  the situation whitchever makes you look good like the lies you told the police you close to the parents,every decent person knows you are hated as you and youre family behind the assasination,and you know she never was in the U>K>for 2 years ,only 18 months of a 2 year visa that why she came back when leaving Martin as they new she had to apply to stay while here,before the visa expire in October,but as you was refused and your apeal to the court was refused as they both saw how calculating you was,you was served a deportation notice,at the airport they told you amy could stay ,but you couldnt,and this is when your father made threats,as you was refused leave to stay you and you never had residence you do not have the right to enter just because youre daughter is british ,and as you have been involved in the husbands murder you will be classed as an undesirable,and will be differcult to get a visa, and the office in Manila know the parents of Martin dislikes you And have not been cleared of involvement in the murder

Quote from: KARMA on May 11, 2009, 06:18:40 PM
Well if the Black Widow/Witch has the nerve to step down on british soil there will be one hell of a "Welcoming Committee" waiting for her!!

And why did she make such a song & dance about having Martin buried in the Philippines so that Amy could visit his grave when she was planning on returning to the UK?
to clarify Mhadie in Liverpool is the BLACK WITCH
MHARGIE IN THE PHIL THE MURDERESS  IS THE BLACK WIDOW
and Big Al told us Her address

What a Farce!!!!!!!!

Quote from: bebe on May 11, 2009, 06:28:54 AM
to justice for martin  if i were you just give the reward to the poor in the philippines.

oh you feeling cocky and conferdent
HOW THE MIGHTY WILL FALL??
the DEAD WILL RISE AND THE FINGER WILL BE POINTED

the  blog getting intresting ,it make a 100 enough for a film????a few more new names sounds that they could have somthing intresting to say as it seems they know the black widow ,Gei sounds like ruth ellis slim buitifull crafty sceaming ,clever but the last english woman hanged for murder.why is it tthat Ning, Jan jan ,Chona,Abby and a couple more seem to be the same 2 people or a close circle each one telling the other what to say,and repeating the same defence and accusations,Problem as she corrupt police in the family and dangerouse family members over hear in Bohol as I know a few of them, justice will be hard to come by,but as time goes by and money runs out it gets harder to cover up ,so except you will have many sleepless nights,gei said she only wanted justice as she must have collected half a million from his eastate why not put this up as a reward or even a million from his easte worth 15,000,000  and show to everone one that finding out the real people behind the murder (not the fall guy's)means more than his eastate I.m sure amy would prefere the real murder be found than a big haunted house

Quote from: chona on May 06, 2009, 06:45:04 AM
excuse me jfm the wife has not got a deported stamp in her passport and for your information the murder is not unsolve because the murderer have been caught and they have addmitted it and they will be sentese shortly .mine your own business bugaaaaaaaaaarrrrrrr!!!!!!

Oh Chona,or should we say gei the black widow/witch sounds like you getting scared,only 2 caught what happen to the others or are your police relitives protecting them that why they not looking any further into it oh the immagration states you was deported ,you seem more ashamed of that than being involved with youre husbands murder,be carefull the dead have away of biting back so keep looking over your shoulder

I am sorry it you had problems with an English arse hole as we say it makes us feel feel very unhappy and ashamed when you get people like this ,we ALL have to except that we have people in our midst that our like that weather Filippina English ect,not go and blame everyone because of the race of a person I have relitives that our great some I dont trust but I dont be disrespectfull to the good Filippina In fact I look on the fact that I am lucky where I was born and Of my financial status,as my family our secure I try to give some of my luck to other filippina to earn a decent standed of living nnot having to scrape a 100 npeso or less aday ,like the lads on a tricycle I tip well and tell them I respect them for trying to earn a honest living as I know I couldnt do it ,maybe it guilt with what I have I pray it not and is that I what to help,this is one reason I hate corruption that hurts the honest people

woo what up Benelynn you dont like English in Europe we call you a  you will never make a politition bringing things like baghdad up right or wrong many a good person killed by the muslims there and kill innercont women and children trying to make a better life so why bring insults that  have some respect???I wonder if you are a member of the BLACK WIDOW'S Family the way you defend her,,ost that accuse her Know more about the real facts and have seen the texts messages that threaton his life

---

Ralds,All the decent friends of Martin and decent Boholan's will appreciate,youre contrubution to help find the truth behind Martins Murder,and Patman nice to see someone else read through all the crap that was written using sex and abuse charges to stop people seeing and asking for the truth ,they are clever the wifes family they know that using this angle that people would be against martin ,at least one judge saw the truth when martin was found innocent,
to those that write in visaya,they have the right to do that but as its about an English person it is disrespectfull,and they try to leave snide remarks hoping that the English dont understand ,they know who they are????I have a few questions to ask next time it will be intresting if they are the same as the P.I. found out,and to use Martins ex wife and Kids is dispictable ,In the uk children are often used as pawns in devorce as it is Martin did not leave her with nothing ,she ended up with a house worth more that in Bohol and a financial sttlement ,details are private between them not for publication so chona abby stop making out Martin left them destertute,
Oh nice report about the 2 sisters in Maasin ??

I would like to raise the offer of a reward from 10,000 to 20,000 peso making a total of 40,000 peso leading to the convicton of the other killers and naming of thoes involved

DEAR RALD ,HOPE YOU NOT MIND ME SHORTEN YOUR NAME,YES I DO BELIEVE THE WIFE AND HER FAMILY OUR INVOLVED,from what I know and the prelimerary report from the P.I.who looked into the family situation in bthe UK. and in Maasin and in Bohol it confirms what I think,every time she text martin he forward them to his friends so we all knew the threats he got and demands,this is why she so urgent to retrive his mobile,to delete but she not realise that texts can be retrived by the phone company,and I got some threats fwd from her to me on a differant sim that i asked martin to use incase his phone stolen too many questions ,remain that i will come to in new blog as been ill to compleat it
I questioned Martin about the alligations and told him I had to be sure before I gave him my full surport,any hint of truth i told him I stand by him but he had to own up as that would be bad to put an innercent person through a court case,after many calls by phone I felt assured of his inercence and promised to stand by him and promised I would help and surport him as I knew of problems with his estranged wife as I was justified as he was found innercent after his death,

dear raldampong ,i'm sorry you feel like that ,I like to keep promises I make ,i have been happily married to a good honest Filippina for nearly 25 years with 3 children so over the years know of good and bad Filipina like in all country some you trust some you have no time for,I am lucky in finance and as we are secure like to buy and sell for a hobby 1 peso or a 1,000peso it the chalange of profit so am able to help others set up bussiness and be self surporting and make a good living ,the hardest part is having the finance to start,I wish more Filippina would stake the ones that want to earn a living yes I get a small percentage ,but could earn more in bank intrest,but the reward is in helping others progress to a good standered of living like I have .I think there for the grace of god go I ,that could be Me I can only spend so much we have the important things the love of a good family,without being bigheaded have helped nearly 50 families that are having a good bussiness and so far 10 have been able to upgrade from nippa house to a block house ,I would love to see all with decent houseing ,this is one thing that we dicussed with martin,I told him straight If I thought for one moment he was guilty I wouldnot stand by his side,As it was he was found not guiltyafter his death and you know once dead it hard to clear youre name,you seem to say it ok for the wife to get visa Why she not worked for it ,come hear be kept and paid by the state ,when it was her intention to get a person to get visa and use him to surport his family ,try taking the sex angle out and look at the everdence then you will see who is really behind things and unfortunate the corupt police that are relitives dont help ,I am sorry if you dont like the truth of coruption but am sure you are well versed with it

If anyone rereads page 13 and the blog of steve he has it correct and truthfull

been reading some past comments and a few quick observations but first our condolences to the family of dolphin lover and you will understand why the people that new martin will not let this drop as we all now that his estranged wife as this is what she was and her family are behind the murder ,oh raldampong on page 10,martin did not abandon her like most people thought she was with her parents in leyte we was all shocked to find her in England trying to apply for a uk visa,during August and September and she was deported as they new the truth and was crying as she had to leave England NOT for the reason as missing Martin if she had got the visa she would not have returned to the Phil,
Benelynne gets facts correct Lucy Blackman nothing to do with this case but her father excepted a compensation of 250,000 pounds
and youre shamfull remark about pants down disgust any decent people you are no better that the killer/the wifes family and every one that tries to use a sex angle to to make headlines instead of sticking to the truth and facts ,I am in a position to know a lot of facts that have not been made public till any trail starts

I will be back from Hong Kong in a week to compleat my sale of investment ,as I want no further involvment in a place where you cannot get justice and such a corrupt police force ,that does not look at the reel suspect I will shortly list a blog of FACTS NOT FICTION as chona does,I am just awaiting the report from a P.I. we had on the case.
The 20,000-00peso reward is still valid and now I will increase that 10,000-00 peso to have the master mind named and procercuted,But we allready Know who this is ,My P.I.has came up with some intresting facts of information

Kris no steve and i are 2differant person he younger better looking ,but we both have the same aim to bring justice for martin and see his estranged lying cheating wife brought to justice.no one mentions her sleeping around before she met martin men she slept with after they split upin June 08 not Dec 08 ,her in Englad in set/Oct trying to extort money from martins family and friends,steve and I know each other and the reel truth and it will be told in a court of law what we know not in this blog police in uk have statements ,its just trying to get past the corupt police trying to brush this under the carpet as she is related to one,I wonder how much they are getting from his 15,000,000.million eastate???

A number of Points It would be more respectfull to write in English as your talking about an English person.2nd Mhargie WAS WAS HATED BY A LOT OF PEOPLE AND ESPECIALLY MARTINS FAMILY ,AS WHEN SHE CONTACTED THEM IT WAS ALLWAYS TRYING TO EXTORT MONEY AND USING THE BABY AS A MEANS TO AN END SHE IS AND ALLWAYS HAS BEEN A MANIPLITIVE BITCH THAT WILL SHOW NOW SIGHNS OF REMORSE.WHEN SHE LEFT FOR ENGLAND MARTIN CHANGED THE LOCKS SO SHE COULD NEVER ENTER THE HOUSE,HOW IS IT SHE WAS AT THE HOUSE?? SHE MUST HAVE KNOWN HE WAS NOT COMMING BACK ,
NO COUNTRY WOULD LET A SUSPECT/WIFE INTERVIEW THE ALLEGED MURDERER UNLESS IT WAS A CORRUPT POLICE FORCE
WHERE IS MARTINS WILL HE LEFT ??
WHERE IS MARTINS PRENUPTIAL ?? IS THIS WHY SHE ENTERED HIS HOUSE TO RANSACK HIS SAfE AND DESTROY THE VALUBLE DOCUMENTS AND TAKE HIS CASH WHATE ABOUT HIS BANK i WONDER WHAT IS LEFT ,
as she had no money of her own why she order the most expensive coffin and funeral ,unless she had access to his money and belongings,
any innercent person would have asked the cost first then contacted his family to help ,but she new she was disliked!!!!!!
some one mention a 50,000 peso reward if readers think it help I will give serious consideration to this as I have saved on the investment

god bless you martin.and in youre memory i wont do the investment in Bohol we talked about they not only lost a investment of 2/3 million pounds around 40/50 jobs that would be created (why was his esranged wife allowed back in the house to get his effects that her family are stealing

why did martin start having trouble only after being deported from england where she ran after she left him to try to get uk status that she married him for ,about time the police interviewed her and her family without their police connections