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Way Nada

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Re: Were you there during the First Edsa Revolution?
« Reply #20 on: March 03, 2010, 04:57:19 AM »

Bol,

Mao pud nay akong katahap sa una nga si Marcos ang nagpapatay ni Ninoy. Hibaw ka dinhi sa Pinas maoy kinaiya nang mag-imbento ug storya [conspiracy theory] nga mao kalingawan nga "talking points" sa mga leftists. Di ba mao nay akong giingon... kanang maga tomu-tomu ug mga pasangil nga storya.

Ako motoo ko nga diha sa sud sa gobierno ni Marcos ang nagpapatay ni Ninoy pero dili si Marcos. Tungod lang kay sija ang presidente adtong panahona nahug lang sa iyang kamot ang responsibilidad sa pagkamatay ni Ninoy.

Sa akong pagtan-aw kadtong gobierno ni Marcos diha nay "power struggle within" ug nahibaw pud si Ninoy ini mao to nga; "He also jumped into the fray"... pero siya ra pud ang nahi-agum. Bisan si Ninoy sa iyang mga diskurso sa Amerika moingon siya nga masakiton na si Marcos nga boot pasabot nga kinahanglan siyang mouli kay di siya gusto nga ipiyal ang kaugmaon sa Pilipino ngadto sa militar ug gatoo pud sija nga siya ang makasunod ni Marcos.

Ang gobierno karon ug gusto gyud nga mahibaw-an ang kamatuoran naa karon sa Muntinglupa Prison ang mga bilanggo nga mga sundalo nga na-convicto sa pag patay ni Ninoy. Karon mga miembro na sa relihiyosong grupo nga mga "Praise the Lord" gusto nila ibalik ang pagdungog sa korte sa kaso ni Ninoy kay gusto nilang ibutyag na ang kamatuoran kung kinsa ang nagpapatay.

Ngano man nga dili man mosugot ang gobierno? Ang tubag, tungod kay naa may mga tawo nga gapugong nga mabuksan pa ang kaso. Kini sila "personally affected by the declaration of Martial Law" nga karon hilabihang pagka kontra kaayo ni Marcos... nga karon ug nahimo nang demonyo si Marcos dili na nila gusto mausob ang hulagway niya.

Sa akong panglantaw tagsa o tingali wa nato dinhi nga na-apektohan nga personal sa "Martial Law". Kita sa pagka tinood mosagap lang ta ug mga balita nga pasiugda sa mga na-apektohan sa "Martial Law" nga demonyo ni si Marcos. Tungod ini kadaghanan nato nahipatik sa atong alimpatakan ang mga nakasuwat sa mantalaan nga hilabihang pagbiay-biay sa pagka tawo ni Marcos.

WN   

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Re: Were you there during the First Edsa Revolution?
« Reply #21 on: March 03, 2010, 07:34:38 AM »
i think ang tanang mga convicted soldiers sa kasong murder kang ninoy gipang pardon na ni GMA.
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Lorenzo

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Re: Were you there during the First Edsa Revolution?
« Reply #22 on: March 03, 2010, 07:39:02 AM »

Well written, Way Nada. As always. :)

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Re: Were you there during the First Edsa Revolution?
« Reply #23 on: March 03, 2010, 08:30:37 AM »

Morag medjo ningpalyar ang imong reasoning faculties dinhi, WN.
...than to speak out and remove all doubt." - Abraham Lincoln

Way Nada

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Re: Were you there during the First Edsa Revolution?
« Reply #24 on: March 03, 2010, 11:46:56 AM »

Pardon or no pardon is not the point. The point I emphasized is; the convicted killers of Ninoy are not asking for a pardon... but they are asking the SC to re-open their case as they have new information regarding the truth in the murder of Ninoy. Boot pasabot mga bag-ong evidencia nga wa masulti sa panahon nga powerful pa ang mga Marcos. Pero karon sila na si Cory ang di gusto nga abrihan pa ang kaso ni Ninoy. Pasensiya na sila nga wa sila motug-an sa unang pagdungog sa kaso.

In my opinion president GMA will not just pardon a person or persons without them asking for a pardon. If they ask, their request will not come in an instant but the Board of Pardon and Parole will study the case before their request will reach the president. 

The only case GMA granted pardon was to Erap. Erap did not ask for pardon either. He wanted to petition his conviction in the SC. Arroyo did not wait for Erap to petition the SC. She pardoned him immediately. You know why? Because she knows Erap did not commit a crime. The case of Erap is political. As long as Erap's case is pending there is the presence of a constitutional crisis. If the Sandiganbayan have decided in favor of Erap the more the system is broken. It will come out Erap is really the legal president.

So even if it is inadequate for the court to convict Erap... for political expediency the court convicted him and he was never given a chance to go to the Supreme Court.

WN   

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Re: Were you there during the First Edsa Revolution?
« Reply #25 on: March 03, 2010, 11:55:32 AM »
Way Nada,

You hit the nail on the coffin in your analysis; especially considering the political and economic echelon's role in sacking Erap from office and in their relation to the repudiation of Marcos's Administration. And if one studies the evolution of Philippine Society, the power of the rich few has not changed. The so called 'echelon' is the same Principales Class that ruled the Philippine Society, the same class that worked with the Friars and the Spanish Colonial Government.

What amazes me is that the Oligarchy remains. It was a powerful force in the late 19th century, and remains so to this very day, using the mass under the veneer of People's Power to retain their own consolidated control of government and the national finance.

In regards to Marcos, I remain neutral to him, with an undeniable fondness for his Machiavellian style of rule. He was, the perfect politician.

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Re: Were you there during the First Edsa Revolution?
« Reply #26 on: March 03, 2010, 01:21:27 PM »

Lorenzo,

The cultural division since the coming of the Spaniards in our country did not move, evolve or change. Nothing is new... it is still the same from its conception. One opinion maker I read in the papers extolling the cultural heritage that was brought by the Spaniards to our country. He was refering to the ilustrado culture, to which I replied; that the ilustrado culture only brings division among the Filipinos. I said this; "the ilustrado culture is a racist culture."

I noticed this division since I was a young man that when you are looking for a job at the Coca-Cola Plant of Tagbilaran you must be a meztiso to qualify as salesman. This is also true in Manila and until now parts of your resume to qualify for a job is that; you must have a pleasing personality, you must be a Catholic and if you are already old you are discriminated in favor of younger people.

Susmarosep! Ang mga maot ug nawong intawon dili maka-trabaho. Hehehe...

And the most blatant display of racial discrimination in our country was the political persecution of Erap. The line of thinking among the people who are believers of the mainstream media is like this; since Erap was elected by the poor... he is not qualified to be the president, he cannot speak English, he is not well educated and he has no knowledge of governance. For these reasons he must be ousted.

WH

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Re: Were you there during the First Edsa Revolution?
« Reply #27 on: March 03, 2010, 01:58:47 PM »
i was in channel 4 (now abs-cbn) nagbilar and nagtagay.

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Re: Were you there during the First Edsa Revolution?
« Reply #28 on: March 03, 2010, 02:16:31 PM »

Way Nada,

I respect your opinion, as it is educated and covers many points. Given it is undeniable that the negative effects Spanish Imperialism had on our country from the people to the social fabric has remained so; an effect of Hispanismo. The Spaniards have left their imprint in our zealous nature when in regards to religion as well as in the fabric of family and the family unit.

In essence, it is the effect of Roman Law that has ruled and reigned throughout tour Pacific Archipelago for almost half a millenia. For me, the Spanish imprint has a dichotomy of results; both positive and negative.

The Oligarchy that was created due to the pseudo autonomous rule that Spain gave the Philippines (it really was the Filipino ruling the Filipino during Pax Hispanica). The Filipino Principales Class implemented inhibitory rules and laws to prevent the rise of the working class; as a way to limit the control of hte nation to the said Principales.

Filipinos of the Ilustrado Class were the ones who inhibited their own peoples; mestizos marrying only mestizos, and mestizos marrying only Spaniards. The Spaniards did not care who they married as it was a Royal Promulgation by Felipe II of Espana that miscegenation was necessary. It was policy that Spanish blood be mingled with the 'Indios' to facilitate the Hispanization of the colony. This was a policy that Spain implemented not only in the Philippines but throughout its possessions in the New World.

A result of this policy, there are over 500 Million Spanish Speaking peoples in the world. Central, South America, The Philippines etc are a result of Spanish overseas miscegenation. Their effects can be seen: Culturally, Linguistically, and Genetically (he he he).

The concept of Mestizo superiority was a Filipino-grown effect. It was the Filipino Mestizo that implemente dracist clause against his own brother (the full blooded indio). The Spaniards did not care, so long as they paid taxes, were loyal to the church and did not rebel against King and Country, they could care less. The Principlaes Class (particularly Mestizos at the time) thought themselves more superior in that they ran government and ran the political structure; a way of proving to the Imperialist Spaniards that they were equal if not greater than the Spaniards.

What I do find rather interesting, is how the Principales Class has changed throughout the 100 years since Spain lost control of its Asiatic Bastion.

During Spain's control, the Chinese were considered subhuman. And many laws were implemented to prevent Chinese immigrants from marrying with Spaniards, Spanish Mestizos, and the Indios. They were literally considered the bottom of the totem pole, next to the negro and mulattos in society.

However, since that time, it is the Chinese-Filipinos that now control the Principales Class.
As well as control commerce in the Philippines. The Chinese have married into the very class that once prevented and barred them from society.

It is now the Chinese-Filipino who marries the Spanish mestiza or the indio.


BL

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Re: Were you there during the First Edsa Revolution?
« Reply #29 on: March 03, 2010, 02:18:34 PM »
EDSA 1 Revolution is a failure. - Rep. Bongbong Marcos -

SALVE REGINA, MADRE DI MISERICORDIA.
VITA, DOLCEZZA, SPERANZA NOSTRA,
SALVE! SALVE REGINA!

Lorenzo

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Re: Were you there during the First Edsa Revolution?
« Reply #30 on: March 03, 2010, 02:22:41 PM »
Marcos' Greatest Imprint in the world.

Over 10 Million Filipinos Abroad.

The over 3 million Filipino-Americans and some 2 million Americans of partial Filipino blood are an effect of Filipino Migration Abroad.

Marcos facilitated the OFW program.


Lorenzo

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Re: Were you there during the First Edsa Revolution?
« Reply #31 on: March 03, 2010, 02:27:19 PM »
There are over 22,000 Filipino Physicians in the United States that practice medicine.
Over 100,000 Filipino Nurses who practice nursing in the United States.

10% of the American Medical System is Filipino. And growing.

Marcos has indirectly affected the American society; and the American Medical System.

Fact.

Lorenzo

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Re: Were you there during the First Edsa Revolution?
« Reply #32 on: March 03, 2010, 02:32:21 PM »
The average Filipino Doctor in the United States makes about $350,000 a year.
22,000 X 350,000 = 7,7000,000,000
$7.7 Billion annual income.

The average Filipino Nurse in the United States makes about $80,000 a year.
100,000 X 80,000 = 8,000,000,0000
$8 Billion annual income.


Guaranteed much of this income goes back to the Philippines to help family members.
Driving and aiding in the Philippine Economy.


:)

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Re: Were you there during the First Edsa Revolution?
« Reply #33 on: March 03, 2010, 02:55:50 PM »
Lorenzo.., inig graduate nimo sa medicine, diha gyud ka magpractice sa imong profession sa America.
Life is what you make.
Kon naa kay gisoksok, naa kay makuot.

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Lorenzo

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Re: Were you there during the First Edsa Revolution?
« Reply #34 on: March 03, 2010, 03:13:34 PM »

When I finish internship, sir, I would like to establish a hospital in the Philippines.

I would, ultimately, like to repatriate back to my Fatherland.

My heart is in the Philippines.

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Re: Were you there during the First Edsa Revolution?
« Reply #35 on: March 03, 2010, 03:20:54 PM »

Dodong maka bawi kaha ka sa student loan ana? maybe after mahuman tanan mga loans and credit cards then pwede na ka mag himo ug hospital sa atoa. I have friends who finished medicine, daghan jamo gipang bayaran.
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Lorenzo

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Re: Were you there during the First Edsa Revolution?
« Reply #36 on: March 03, 2010, 03:24:21 PM »

ahaha! now you sound like my mother. That is something she would say.

or mo ingon pa, "Doy, ajaw kalimatan mi diri ha? mo pay back pa ka sa loans sa imong mommy ug daddy before maka minjo ka"

:)

You are right, 'te.
I stand corrected and take your point thoroughly.

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Re: Were you there during the First Edsa Revolution?
« Reply #37 on: March 03, 2010, 04:47:38 PM »
i was at home, watching tv, until the tv was turned dead because of the shooting at the tv station's main tower in manila. 

all your historical/cynical claims have basis in fact, wn and lorenzo (though it's hitting the 'nail on the head' and not the 'nail on the coffin,' please), but aren't we also helping perpetuate this system?  we vote for this same people, we behave as if we honor them (don't u.s. fil-am groups invite politicians--- as speakers, as inducting officers of organizations; think boawas of seattle and some other funny acronyms somewhere else--- and roll the red carpet for them?).  sadly, these political leaders could be mirrors of what we are.  we may deserve them even if we feel we don't.

edsa I was a nation's effort to effect change.  after 21 years, we have bent backward too long.  the process may have had its failings.  there may have been puppeteers who held the strings.  (well, who says revolutions don't have manipulators?)  the results may be disappointing as we are disappointed now.  but edsa uno at least assured us that power is still in the people. 

let the new generation learn better and effect change better.  best of all, let the new generation be better politicians than their elders.  (by the way, is jinggoy better than erap?)  

p.s.  that shooting at the tv tower in quezon city... one of the more poignant pictures of edsa I was of a dead soldier dangling from the tower.  there were two of them. the other survived; he turned out to be the brother of our neighbor.  i met him and he struck me as somewhat bonkers.  he couldn't get over the death of his buddy. 

(do you think we could have a forum such as tb if it were still marcos?  i was banned from showing up at the office for some days because i wore yellow once.)  that's why i believe edsa uno was not for nothing.     

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Re: Were you there during the First Edsa Revolution?
« Reply #38 on: March 03, 2010, 05:07:08 PM »
i was 6 years old that time when the first edsa revolution happened...and as far i remember, we were at my Lola's house in Dipolog while my father would check us there every now and then...since near lng mi sa kampo nag reside, soldiers were on full alert at that time then boom...i heard cañons were fired at the sea (the camp was facing at the sea) to celebrate... yun lang na remember nako...
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Re: Were you there during the First Edsa Revolution?
« Reply #39 on: March 03, 2010, 07:25:13 PM »
Tua pa kos tijan sa ahong inahan. I am 213 days premature. Unsa pa kaho ko ato? Lawot lawot nga naglanguy languy?



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