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Re: Erap Estrada Supports Legalization of "Jueteng"
« Reply #20 on: October 27, 2009, 08:22:14 AM »
pare pasensya na pero pagka way nada nga opinion...
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ang sacristan

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Re: Erap Estrada Supports Legalization of "Jueteng"
« Reply #21 on: October 27, 2009, 10:10:53 AM »
Korek ka diha bay,,, everyboby has the right to his own opinion and share it and assume to admit critics....
The ultimate measure of a man is not where he stands in moments of comfort and convenience,but where he stands at times of challenge and controversy.

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Re: Erap Estrada Supports Legalization of "Jueteng"
« Reply #22 on: October 27, 2009, 11:25:17 AM »

Nat-Cast,

Why do you say that? Please explain.

WN

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Re: Erap Estrada Supports Legalization of "Jueteng"
« Reply #23 on: October 27, 2009, 01:34:46 PM »

mao diay.......hehehehehe ;D

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Re: Erap Estrada Supports Legalization of "Jueteng"
« Reply #24 on: October 28, 2009, 09:31:26 AM »

WN

as an opinion, your favoring of Erap's legalizing of jueteng is quite understandable. contrary to what you believe, however, in my opinion, your defending Erap's whim doesn't make you Right nor Unpopular. It may be heroic on your part to stand by the Actor; it is just one step short of being absurd for nothing in Jueteng--whether it is legal or illegal-- could address the chronic poverty of many Filipinos.

If to legalize gambling is to address poverty, then we would not have talked this problem again after lottery and bunch of other gamblings were warmly welcomed by our law makers. Trusting that jueteng taxes would uplift our government's treasury, I doubt its beneficence to the poor. Do you know where most of PAGCORS' profits go? Honestly, none of us know because the government--like Erap--don't want us to know. And i don't want to know either; sometimes being ignorant about it feels much better. But the whole nation had seen the historic Erap's trial has also something to do with that legalized gambling--and all its "glory"--which you imply as worth defending.

Almost 80 % of the people of this country occupy the lowest part of the pyramid--below poverty line. What does it mean to legal jueteng? Tell me. More jobs? or more kickbacks and more missing taxes? The problem is when the government legalizes a gambling activity in this country, it believes it's doing favor to the people. Actually, it is the opposite. And that's a shame.

On the other hand, we all are aware that illegal jueteng would only favor more to the financers and their protectors (police, politicians and the military). aside from that, its evil, both necessary and unnecessary, is just sending more poor people to the bottom of indigence and destitution. i can't argue with that. I trust you know better than i do.

Why legal jueteng of Erap is hardly acceptable to me? If many feel it's not going to work even at the behest of a good politician, more so, when it comes from the mouth of Joseph Estrada.  Basing upon his credibility and political record during his presidency, i doubt if he has any greater good to offer than legalizing jueteng, which to me is merely his political maneuvering, knowing that gambling is deeply ensconced in the Filipino psyche. Many filipinos canonized him a 'saint' for saying that. Including you.

The case of Chavit is a blessing in disguise. It has revealed this president's disservice to this country, to which he once passionately promised, "walang kama-kamag-anak, walang kumare, walang kumpadre." It's not a issue whether Chavit was seeking for vindication or absolution for his gambling problem after exposing Erap; it was time just  riped for the picking for all to realize something not morally right happening in the highest office of the country. After all, it's the case of good prevailing over evil.


peace

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Re: Erap Estrada Supports Legalization of "Jueteng"
« Reply #25 on: October 28, 2009, 09:41:30 AM »
gambling corrupts human mind and a community. there's no known rehabilitation on this disorder........

erap is a joke with a corrupt gamblers mind who exploits the poor people..... pagka way nada gyud!

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Re: Erap Estrada Supports Legalization of "Jueteng"
« Reply #26 on: October 28, 2009, 11:33:41 AM »
actually "erap" stands for "pera". and he's so obsessed with it ;D

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Re: Erap Estrada Supports Legalization of "Jueteng"
« Reply #27 on: October 29, 2009, 08:44:20 AM »

Glace,

It is not only Erap who said these words that "legalizing jueteng helps to address poverty in our country". It was spoken also by Ex-pres. Fidel Ramos. But Ramos's mistake was he did not legalize jueteng instead gave Manuel Morato of PCSO a free hand to introduce another number game called "lotto" to combat jueteng believing that the poor will welcome this new number game as an alternative to jueteng and those gambling lords will just fade away. Ramos was wrong! Morato's lotto did not reach to the expectation of the poor. The poor are still there patronizing jueteng... and the gambling lords? They are bolder than ever in their operation of the illegal games. Today it's not only town mayors and police chiefs who are recepients of grease money from gambling lords but barangay leaders are already included in their list and there are efforts to bribe parish priests to silence them during the Sunday's mass.

Anybody other than Erap or Ramos saying that "legalizing jueteng helps to address the problem of poverty in our country is correct". In my opinion Ramos or Erap are only incidental people and please bear in mind what they mean by their words; "it only helps to address and not the main solution of eradicating poverty in our country". Jueteng taxes alone, [granting jueteng is legal] cannot singlehandedly arrest the problem of poverty but I believe there are other solutions whether it be economic or political.

Let us admit this... gambling is unpreventable and this is the reason why in a not so distant past some countries solved the problem of gambling by legalizing them. Take the state of Nevada for instance... what is this land before? It's a desert... but when the government legalized gambling to help build schools and gave jobs to the poor the state improved its economy. The Mafia came out of the open and made compensation to their workers legal and reasonable. Macau near Hongkong... before it was only a fishing village and most of their people look for good jobs outside especially in the Philippines operating restaurant. In Macau most of their revenues come from the casinos. The church and casino complex are standing side by side and there are no conflict with the two. In Australia there are casinos which have imprimatur from the Catholic heirarchy of Australia that is why the club is called Catholic Club. Once you enter the lobby of this club you can see the pictures of the cardinal and the bishop of Sydney.

If you think that 80% of the Filipinos are occupying the lowest part of the poverty line or pyramid as you say... it is not because of gambling. But because of the poor economy of our country. The poor are being push more to the ground because their vulnerability is being exploited by the illegal gambling lords... but once illegal gambling are eradicated I believe it will help the level playing field of the poor. If it will happen the once illegal gambling lords will become legal and we can see them in the open and they will pay their taxes and coruption will be minimized. When jueteng is legalized it is favorable to the poor who directly engaged in the illegal gambling games because their jobs as cabo, runnners, or collectors will be legalized also and they will have hope for their children in the future.         

Glacier said;

"On the other hand, we all are aware that illegal jueteng would only favor more to the financers and their protectors (police, politicians and the military). aside from that, its evil, both necessary and unnecessary, is just sending more poor people to the bottom of indigence and destitution. i can't argue with that. I trust you know better than i do."

Answer:

This is the reason why I am arguing to legalize jueteng. Just take away Erap from your mind so that you can accept that legalizing jueteng is one way to address the poverty problem. Daghan dinhi sa TB nga gihimong kinaingnan si Erap. Busa tangtanga sa si Erap sa inyong huna-huna. Hehehe....

WN

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Re: Erap Estrada Supports Legalization of "Jueteng"
« Reply #28 on: October 29, 2009, 12:13:24 PM »
I disagree, WN.

you said:

"If it will happen the once illegal gambling lords will become legal and we can see them in the open and they will pay their taxes and coruption will be minimized. When jueteng is legalized it is favorable to the poor who directly engaged in the illegal gambling games because their jobs as cabo, runnners, or collectors will be legalized also and they will have hope for their children in the future."  

Please be informed that all kinds of income are subject to income tax. Even if it is illegal, the BIR can still go after them for tax evasion if they didn't declare in their Income tax returns receipts from the illegal numbers game.

Also, the segment of our society greatly affected by this is not the cabos, collectors etc. It is the poor who are regular clients of illegal gambling. Money spent in gambling could have been used for food and education.

I was in pampanga a few years back and i was able to witness the moral decay of the province. school children their (elementary at that) are already engaged in illegal gambling. from posing as collectors, ushers (mao ni spelling?) or just as plain bettors.

think about that guys.

thank you.
:-)

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Re: Erap Estrada Supports Legalization of "Jueteng"
« Reply #29 on: October 30, 2009, 11:48:30 AM »
I said:

"If it will happen the once illegal gambling lords will become legal and we can see them in the open and they will pay their taxes and coruption will be minimized. When jueteng is legalized it is favorable to the poor who directly engaged in the illegal gambling games because their jobs as cabo, runnners, or collectors will be legalized also and they will have hope for their children in the future."

Calle disagrees with my statement above and he says; 

"Please be informed that all kinds of income are subject to income tax. Even if it is illegal, the BIR can still go after them for tax evasion if they didn't declare in their Income tax returns receipts from the illegal numbers game."

Answer:

Not all kinds of income are subject to income tax. How can you tax those illegal gamblers when they are hiding from the BIR because their trade is illegal? This illegal gambling lords are part of the underground economy. That's why I said that; if they become legal or their business will become legal their names will be roostered by the government as  taxpayers.

Calle said;

"Also, the segment of our society greatly affected by this is not the cabos, collectors etc. It is the poor who are regular clients of illegal gambling. Money spent in gambling could have been used for food and education."

Answer:

The poor are greatly affected because they are engaged in an illegal gambling game. I mentioned the cabo, runnners, or collectors as examples in the understanding that if jueteng will be legalized... they will have hope for their children in the future. So if you understand fully my idea I wrote about the state of Nevada that; "the government legalized gambling to help build schools, gave jobs to the poor and improved its economy. When this was done the Mafia which often do its job away from government authority came out of the open and agreed to open legal gambling dens in Las Vegas and compensated their workers reasonably and within the bounds stipulated by law."

Calle said;   

"I was in pampanga a few years back and i was able to witness the moral decay of the province. school children their (elementary at that) are already engaged in illegal gambling. from posing as collectors, ushers (mao ni spelling?) or just as plain bettors."

Answer:

You are talking of illegal gambling... that is why I am arguing for its legalization.

WN

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Re: Erap Estrada Supports Legalization of "Jueteng"
« Reply #30 on: October 30, 2009, 01:20:08 PM »
wa gyuy gihapoy nada.....

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Re: Erap Estrada Supports Legalization of "Jueteng"
« Reply #31 on: October 30, 2009, 01:46:06 PM »
NO to legalization of Jueteng!  If we allow jueteng to be legalized, pretty soon it's also okay to legalize prostitution or selling of marijuana.   :o
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Re: Erap Estrada Supports Legalization of "Jueteng"
« Reply #32 on: October 31, 2009, 04:59:53 AM »
Glace,

It is not only Erap who said these words that "legalizing jueteng helps to address poverty in our country". It was spoken also by Ex-pres. Fidel Ramos. But Ramos's mistake was he did not legalize jueteng instead gave Manuel Morato of PCSO a free hand to introduce another number game called "lotto" to combat jueteng believing that the poor will welcome this new number game as an alternative to jueteng and those gambling lords will just fade away. Ramos was wrong! Morato's lotto did not reach to the expectation of the poor. The poor are still there patronizing jueteng... and the gambling lords? They are bolder than ever in their operation of the illegal games. Today it's not only town mayors and police chiefs who are recepients of grease money from gambling lords but barangay leaders are already included in their list and there are efforts to bribe parish priests to silence them during the Sunday's mass.

Reply:

WN

A legalized gambling (jueteng or lotto) cannot eradicate an operation of illegal gambling in the Philippines. Why? Illegal gambling is more profitable. And operators and financiers know our government which plans to legalize their operations is only after of its money, not service. And that is the case; so, there's no way it  can help address the more serious issue on poverty in our country, let alone solve it. How can legalized jueteng help...when it can't even HELP eliminate illegal gambling, and you expect its going to work against the chronic poverty in our country? Legalizing one would only solve the illegality of it, but not the purpose to which it is intended, as claimed by honey-lipped politicians. Ramos and Moratos' failure should have taught hard lesson to the next proponents of legalizing gambling like jueteng. Illegal operators of gambling doesn't go away. You legalize one, and you see more illegal ones popping up. It's an endless cycle which legalized gambling cannot break. This is a fact which Bohol Police Director SSupt. Edgardo Ingking shared, with his wisdom and experience, regarding the plan to introduce STL in Bohol. He said "I don't honestly believe STL will help eliminate the existing illegal numbers game such as 'swertres', instead this will only worsen illegal gambling. Illegal gambling financiers and operators would only exploit the legalized STL to device an illegal version." So does legalizing jueteng help to address poverty in OUR COUNTRY?  Absolutely NO!


Anybody other than Erap or Ramos saying that "legalizing jueteng helps to address the problem of poverty in our country is correct". In my opinion Ramos or Erap are only incidental people and please bear in mind what they mean by their words; "it only helps to address and not the main solution of eradicating poverty in our country". Jueteng taxes alone, [granting jueteng is legal] cannot singlehandedly arrest the problem of poverty but I believe there are other solutions whether it be economic or political.

Reply:

The correctness of this idea may be in everyone's mind, but it doesn't make legalized gambling like jueteng the RIGHT solution to help eradicate OUR poverty. The truth is they want to legalize it because they have no balls to eliminate it. They have no balls because they can't live without it. It's all about Money. But if we only have  better leadership in our polity to run our economy, our resources, forces and the pride of our hardworking people, there's absolutely no need to worry illegal gambling because the law and order in our police force would be enough to tackle the problem. Sadly, we don't have the dreamed leadership and the police are drained of credibility and power.

To legalize gambling, which in this country has been proven to be impotent to eliminate illegal gambling and its inherent negative impact to the poor, in order help solve poverty is like allowing yourself to be checked by a physician, eventhough you know you need a pyschiatrist. You're trying to help eliminate a target (poverty), yet you're using a toy gun (legal jueteng). You said, " i believe there are other solutions whether it be economic or political"; yes, indeed, there are, and that's what we need, among other things, like strengthening the executive, legislative and judicial branches of the gov/t; the elimination of culture of corruption; sincere governance, etc. But absolutely NOT to legalize gambling like jueteng. Not here. Not Now.


Let us admit this... gambling is unpreventable and this is the reason why in a not so distant past some countries solved the problem of gambling by legalizing them. Take the state of Nevada for instance... what is this land before? It's a desert... but when the government legalized gambling to help build schools and gave jobs to the poor the state improved its economy. The Mafia came out of the open and made compensation to their workers legal and reasonable. Macau near Hongkong... before it was only a fishing village and most of their people look for good jobs outside especially in the Philippines operating restaurant. In Macau most of their revenues come from the casinos. The church and casino complex are standing side by side and there are no conflict with the two. In Australia there are casinos which have imprimatur from the Catholic heirarchy of Australia that is why the club is called Catholic Club. Once you enter the lobby of this club you can see the pictures of the cardinal and the bishop of Sydney.

Reply:

WN

You have to realize this is no NEVADA. Realize also they legalized gambling in 1931 not to eliminate poverty. Nevada State, while the rest of USA were pummelled by the hardships of the Great Depression, was virtually  insulated from it because jobs  and money were prevalent because of Union Pacific Railroad development and construction of Hoover Dam 34 miles away in Black Canyon on the Colorado River. Later on, Las Vegas with an already prodigious potential for business, entertainment and marketing investments would be transformed into what it is today. Not only that, the Nevada state has had the effeciency to collect tax revenues second to none, that even mobsters couldn't run away from paying their obligations. And it used the money for their public interest. Do we have that effeciency  here TODAY? NONE!!! Your BIR, the tax collector, is on the top five list of the most corrupt agancies in the government. Behind DPWH, PNP and DA. There you have it--the arms of our government (PNP and BIR) which are supposed to chase down illegal activities of gambling are not fit even just to wear their nametags. And now you want us to trust our poor people's hope to that idea that legalizing jueteng will help their impoverished condition? From the mouth of unscropulous politicians like Erap Estrada? Absolutely no way. How you wish that the magic wand of legal gambling like jueteng could turn everything into gold like NEVADA; sorry, because it will just appropriately turn us into WAYNADA instead (no pun intended).

The same case can be construed about Casino in Macau and the fabled Catholic Club in Austalia. No comparison. We are not at par with those countries in this area. It is not a simple case that because it works in their system, it will work in ours too. Far from it, considering the status quo of our politics and rampant corruption. I can't imagine, if the lottery system in Canada was even rigged with fraud, as recently discovered, what would it be like in our present system? Yet, all these people are singing is to legalize jueteng to help the poor in a system rigged with rich corrupt officials. Legalization of gambling like jueteng would just be another puddle for corruption. Look who will greatly benefit from it? Not the poor, definitely.


If you think that 80% of the Filipinos are occupying the lowest part of the poverty line or pyramid as you say... it is not because of gambling. But because of the poor economy of our country. The poor are being push more to the ground because their vulnerability is being exploited by the illegal gambling lords... but once illegal gambling are eradicated I believe it will help the level playing field of the poor. If it will happen the once illegal gambling lords will become legal and we can see them in the open and they will pay their taxes and coruption will be minimized. When jueteng is legalized it is favorable to the poor who directly engaged in the illegal gambling games because their jobs as cabo, runnners, or collectors will be legalized also and they will have hope for their children in the future.         

Reply:

Yes, the chronic poverty of our country is not because of gambling. But it is casued by the poor and flawed management of our economy. Poor economy is the outcome of it. We make ourselves poor by greed, self-interest and lacking in disiciple with our national leaders in the front. We are used to be second behind Japan in terms of economy. Now, we are left in the dust from other Asian countries jumping off their economies to quantum leaps.

Legalized jueteng proponents need reality check. Jueteng gets its revenue mostly from the poor section of our society, for which legalized jueteng is allegedly, hopefully and Godwillingly intended to help. If legalization happens, this is going to be the scenario in our country's legal jueteng: the poor Juan helps Jueteng gets the money to help the poor--who happens to be Juan himself.  Nonsense. Where and how could a blind lead another blind; poor to another poor? It's a path to nowhere future. The poor continues to be squeezed down to the last drop; and the crocs so alive and well.


Glacier said;

"On the other hand, we all are aware that illegal jueteng would only favor more to the financers and their protectors (police, politicians and the military). aside from that, its evil, both necessary and unnecessary, is just sending more poor people to the bottom of indigence and destitution. i can't argue with that. I trust you know better than i do."

Answer:

This is the reason why I am arguing to legalize jueteng. Just take away Erap from your mind so that you can accept that legalizing jueteng is one way to address the poverty problem. Daghan dinhi sa TB nga gihimong kinaingnan si Erap. Busa tangtanga sa si Erap sa inyong huna-huna. Hehehe....

Reply:

Illegal jueteng is bad; legal jueteng is no better. That's my point.

Erap is a fixture of man wanting popularity because he thinks he is right. Like you. So he can't be removed, unless this country is nil of this type of people. I don't know how many people be left in this country if we do the process of elimination; but for sure you will be among the first. hahahaha.

secondly, we can't take away Erap, because he "started" this thread. And he is running for president. And he has an ardent follower here in TB, and you would be so alone if we stop thinking about him, wouldn't you? hahaha





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Re: Erap Estrada Supports Legalization of "Jueteng"
« Reply #33 on: November 03, 2009, 08:55:34 AM »
glacie, bravo, well explained. duna kay nada pre!!!

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Re: Erap Estrada Supports Legalization of "Jueteng"
« Reply #34 on: November 06, 2009, 08:38:19 AM »

Naintimano ang ulo sa lansang nga mitaop dayon sa ulo sa tawo. That gambling is morally reprehensible is a conviction shared by people of varied persuasions, from staid aging agnostics to shrill cub scout Catholics.
...than to speak out and remove all doubt." - Abraham Lincoln

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Re: Erap Estrada Supports Legalization of "Jueteng"
« Reply #35 on: November 06, 2009, 12:01:33 PM »
Sa atua sa Pilipinas raman siguro ang daghan sugarol. Murag pabor ko nga kining mga illegal ipang legal na kay once illegal gani very desirable kaayo na ug legal ma wala ang desire.
Naay daghan klase sa Lotto diri pero murag tagsa ramay motaya kay unsaon legal man. Bisan gani sa basement sa mga simbahan naay bingo pastilan langawon na raman kay way mobingo hehhehe tungod kay legal man lagi. Tinuod bitaw ang giingon ni Way Nada nga murag makatabang jud nuon siguro ni ug i legalize.Maminos mibosan ang mga sugarol sa atua kay ma wa na ang desire kay legal naman. Tan awa bitaw ang Nevada oh deserto ra na unya karon daghan na moadto kay uban mag sugal,uban mamaje,uban pud kaon ray adtuon.Among silingan every year moadto ug Las Vegas kay lami kono ug kaon didto halos kara hotel Buffet way limit perti kono kalami sa mga pagkaon.
Tanang lami sa kinabuhi mga illegal,ban ug kining mga menyo hehhehe.Mao ni aron di ma desirable ipanglegal nalang hehhehe.
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The Bond Movies by balong
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if i was RICH by balong
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