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Author Topic: Does the Philippines Need Another Marcos?  (Read 24450 times)

glacier_71

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Re: Does the Philippines need another Marcos?
« Reply #100 on: November 28, 2008, 10:20:12 AM »
miabot na pod ning "mesiyas" ani.. didto ma nis pikas thread...gatabok-tabok oroy...lol

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buwadsanga

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Re: Does the Philippines need another Marcos?
« Reply #101 on: December 23, 2008, 03:48:13 PM »
matud pa nila. he had too much heaven in his mind

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A Layman

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Re: Does the Philippines need another Marcos?
« Reply #102 on: December 24, 2008, 09:06:51 PM »
miabot na pod ning "mesiyas" ani.. didto ma nis pikas thread...gatabok-tabok oroy...lol

Mao nay giingon sa mga tagawog nga bohol-ohol.

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Lorenzo

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Re: Does the Philippines need another Marcos?
« Reply #103 on: December 24, 2008, 09:15:42 PM »
Odd in that I find some of Marcos' tactics effective. His military policies were one of the best this country has ever seen. His military tactics not only crushed the MNLF in the war front, barraging most of them into submission. Leaving only remnants. Most of the Maoists NPA were routed, only making a presence after Marcos' deposition and following weak presidencies that did not uphold the same militaristic charisma as that of President Marcos.

Marcos was a vehement defender of Philippine Territoriality. Even so much as to consider the reconquest of Sabah, Malaysia.

Sometimes, just sometimes, a President needs to have a hard hand. Though I did not live to see Marcos in his prime, I cannot help but hold respect for his charisma and his efficacy in some aspects. An apologist, so to say.

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Re: Does the Philippines need another Marcos?
« Reply #104 on: December 24, 2008, 09:22:08 PM »
In addendum,

It is a flawed tactic to blame corruption onto President Marcos. Widespread corruption did not sprout from the foot that Marcos trodded, on the contrary, wide-spread corruption was already established in Manila decades even before Marcos came to power.

The country's politicians were already practicing vote-buying even before the years of Quezon and Roxas. And violent regionalism and political instability was made manifest years before Marcos took power in the presence of political gangs and thugs that forced individuals to vote, induced vote-buying as well as assassinations. Regionalism en et excellsis, so to say.

When Marcos took power, he did the unthinkable. He outlawed, by Presidential Decree, the presence of political gangs and thuggery. How did he do this? He increased the size of the Philippine Armed Forces and the role of the Constabulary. Federal Mandate took precedent. And Law and Order was made known.



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Lorenzo

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Re: Does the Philippines need another Marcos?
« Reply #105 on: December 24, 2008, 09:27:02 PM »
The senators and politicians who blame Marcos for corruption, are themselves guilty of their own verdict. Many of these senators in Manila served in Marcos' years. Many of such senators and congressmen who denounced Marcos during the People's Power Epoch were, hypocritically, the ones that collaborated with the henchmen of Marcos in his weaker term.

Marcos' own flaw was Time. When he aged, he was susceptible to corruption by his own cabinet and the very congressmen and senators who were hailed as the 'Voice of the People.'



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Re: Does the Philippines need another Marcos?
« Reply #106 on: February 09, 2009, 11:53:01 PM »
we hate corruption just as much we hate Marcos' regime.
God forbid, may we never see his "shadow" again.


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Re: Does the Philippines need another Marcos?
« Reply #107 on: February 10, 2009, 06:43:29 PM »
Odd in that I find some of Marcos' tactics effective. His military policies were one of the best this country has ever seen. His military tactics not only crushed the MNLF in the war front, barraging most of them into submission. Leaving only remnants. Most of the Maoists NPA were routed, only making a presence after Marcos' deposition and following weak presidencies that did not uphold the same militaristic charisma as that of President Marcos.

Marcos was a vehement defender of Philippine Territoriality. Even so much as to consider the reconquest of Sabah, Malaysia.

Sometimes, just sometimes, a President needs to have a hard hand. Though I did not live to see Marcos in his prime, I cannot help but hold respect for his charisma and his efficacy in some aspects. An apologist, so to say.

i beg to disagree with some of the above quoted observations of dong enzo.

Foremost, it was at the time of Marcos that NPAs and CPP flourished because of his wanton disregard of human rights. the marcos era was the prime of student activism because of his policies that violates that very foundation of our persons and of our nation.

if my memory is still serves me right, the Huks, the NPAs predecessor, were already crushed (surrendered, i think, is more politically correct) at the time of President Quirino by then Secretary Ramon Magsaysay's intervention in the peace process.  It was Magsaysay's popularity among the masses thal led the Huks to leave the mountains.

Secondly, Marcos' misplaced sense of nationalism cost so many lives including that of the massacre of the men he trained to be sent to Sabbah.  I am not espousing the idea that only diplomatic missions could solve our Sabbah claims, but then, Marcos' policy was just totally wrong.  Had Marcos reflected much of his stance on Sabbah, the massacre could have been avoided. It was so haphazardly and negligently planned that its flaws were screaming wild in our history.

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A Layman

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Re: Does the Philippines need another Marcos?
« Reply #108 on: February 12, 2009, 05:36:00 PM »
Buyag man sab ka bay Calle! Kahibawo pa man lagi ka sa mga panghitabo kaniadto sa panahon ni Luis Taruc (patay na).

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lindy

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Re: Does the Philippines Need Another Marcos?
« Reply #109 on: February 13, 2009, 05:51:25 AM »
Really, its hard to be a leader.

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Re: Does the Philippines Need Another Marcos?
« Reply #110 on: February 13, 2009, 06:10:05 AM »
Buyag man sab ka bay Calle! Kahibawo pa man lagi ka sa mga panghitabo kaniadto sa panahon ni Luis Taruc (patay na).

mas maguwang pa tingali ni si calle nimo, lay. lol

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TOPAC

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Re: Does the Philippines Need Another Marcos?
« Reply #111 on: February 13, 2009, 08:18:52 AM »
Buyag man sab ka bay Calle! Kahibawo pa man lagi ka sa mga panghitabo kaniadto sa panahon ni Luis Taruc (patay na).
mas maguwang pa tingali ni si calle nimo, lay. lol

guwang na ko oi. growing old is mandatory but feeling old, i guess, is optional. LOL

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glacier_71

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Re: Does the Philippines Need Another Marcos?
« Reply #112 on: February 13, 2009, 08:26:15 AM »
guwang na ko oi. growing old is mandatory but feeling old, i guess, is optional. LOL

niguwa na ang kalibre ni, calle. 45? 38? automatic? 357? old but walastic! lol.

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TOPAC

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Re: Does the Philippines Need Another Marcos?
« Reply #113 on: February 13, 2009, 08:48:52 AM »
:-)

fdaray

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Re: Does the Philippines Need Another Marcos?
« Reply #114 on: February 13, 2009, 12:46:14 PM »
It is said, "history repeats itself," gikan sa HUKs, NPA, MILF and ABUsayaf

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Re: Does the Philippines Need Another Marcos?
« Reply #115 on: February 13, 2009, 12:59:05 PM »
history doesn't repeat itself.

what happens today and in the future may have a semblance of the past but it is not history repeating itself. i already pointed this out in this forum.

history is history. past is past. let's learn from them, and let's move on.

we cannot blame history for what is happening today. blame it to ourselves.

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Re: Does the Philippines Need Another Marcos?
« Reply #116 on: February 13, 2009, 01:00:10 PM »
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TOPAC

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Re: Does the Philippines Need Another Marcos?
« Reply #117 on: February 13, 2009, 01:01:32 PM »
tawa man ka bay? palag?

aw, o, mura ikaw ako nalecturan ana sa posting sa taas unya imu ko gikasab-an.

hahahahahaha

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glacier_71

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Re: Does the Philippines Need Another Marcos?
« Reply #118 on: February 13, 2009, 01:04:27 PM »
tawa man ka bay? palag?

aw, o, mura ikaw ako nalecturan ana sa posting sa taas unya imu ko gikasab-an.

hahahahahaha

aper bay hahaha

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Re: Does the Philippines Need Another Marcos?
« Reply #119 on: February 13, 2009, 01:11:10 PM »
appear!!! LOL

allign pa!!!

(masuko ra ba tos mike basta daghan exclamation points)
(guilty ko mike pero ajaw baja ko i-banned diri)

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Lorenzo

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Re: Does the Philippines Need Another Marcos?
« Reply #120 on: February 14, 2009, 07:28:44 PM »
i beg to disagree with some of the above quoted observations of dong enzo.

Foremost, it was at the time of Marcos that NPAs and CPP flourished because of his wanton disregard of human rights. the marcos era was the prime of student activism because of his policies that violates that very foundation of our persons and of our nation.

if my memory is still serves me right, the Huks, the NPAs predecessor, were already crushed (surrendered, i think, is more politically correct) at the time of President Quirino by then Secretary Ramon Magsaysay's intervention in the peace process.  It was Magsaysay's popularity among the masses thal led the Huks to leave the mountains.

Secondly, Marcos' misplaced sense of nationalism cost so many lives including that of the massacre of the men he trained to be sent to Sabbah.  I am not espousing the idea that only diplomatic missions could solve our Sabbah claims, but then, Marcos' policy was just totally wrong.  Had Marcos reflected much of his stance on Sabbah, the massacre could have been avoided. It was so haphazardly and negligently planned that its flaws were screaming wild in our history.

Tito,

I am no specialist in Filipino National Security, but am just a regular reader. Yes you are right about the grave human rights abuses by President Marcos. The Jabidah Massacre was an unfortunate incident, but due to the secretive nature of the operation at the time, "Operation Merdika" (Operation Freedom) I can understand why it was done. As it was part of the Philippine Intereste to train paratroopers and saboteurs to invade Sabah. The term "Merdika" is Malay for "Freedom".

I for one am not going to sit here and deny the human rights violations of President Marcos, as that would be impossible. I acknowledge his mistakes, and the grievances of the Filipino people that suffered under his administration.

However, I will not deny the fact that I am attracted and intrigued by his oratory skills, his military solidarity. Never has the Philippines seen the rise of the Philippine Armed Forces as in the days of Marcos. When the Philippine Air Force, Navy, Army, Marines, Black Panthers, Rangers etc, was so well equipped, well trained, and well armed that left its Asian neighbours reeling.

It was a time when the Philippine Eagle eyed foreign lands. Had the Philippines invaded Sabah, Malaysia, there was no way Malaysia would have survived the invasion or repelled the invasion. As the incident wouldn't have been the same as the Konfrantasi of 1962 when Indonesia's Pancasilah forces tried to extinguish Malaysia's right to existance. As when this happened, the UK and Australian forces intervened on Malaysia's behalf.

The Philippines, a strategic ally of the United States, and the Philippine Army, Navy, Marines were all American-trained, using the best-of-the best American materiel would not have been touched by British or Aussie forces for fear of straining American relations. And then again, just on the size of the Armed Forces of the Philippines at the time. During the Marcosian Epoch, the AFP was estimated at having 250,000 men on active duty. Sabah would have fallen in 2-3 months time as Operation Merdika predicted. There are even reports that the Philippines could have marched all the way west to conquor not just Sabah, but also all of Sarawak  (East Malaysia). Other Right-wing Filipino would even go so far as marching the entire Army to Peninsular Malaysia, taking and subduing Kuala Lumpur. And Absorbing the whole of Malaysia into the Greater Republic of the Philippines.




Best,
Lorenzo

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Re: Does the Philippines Need Another Marcos?
« Reply #121 on: February 16, 2009, 09:13:57 AM »
Marcos' pampering of the military was the epoch of corruption in the AFP.

needless to say, GMA is doing the same thing now.

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Re: Does the Philippines Need Another Marcos?
« Reply #122 on: February 20, 2009, 09:30:46 PM »
this question should not be asked. the reason why? it's obvious!

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Re: Does the Philippines Need Another Marcos?
« Reply #123 on: February 21, 2009, 10:25:00 AM »
Marcos is history. If ever that 'history repeats itself' is true, then never in Pinas.

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glacier_71

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Re: Does the Philippines Need Another Marcos?
« Reply #124 on: February 21, 2009, 12:08:37 PM »
this question should not be asked. the reason why? it's obvious!

you are korek, buwad. glad you're back.

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Re: Does the Philippines Need Another Marcos?
« Reply #125 on: February 21, 2009, 06:45:29 PM »
YES!!! maajo pa to MAKOY kay ana POTUT!!! na BOAYA

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glacier_71

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Re: Does the Philippines Need Another Marcos?
« Reply #126 on: February 21, 2009, 08:18:52 PM »
YES!!! maajo pa to MAKOY kay ana POTUT!!! na BOAYA

Putot's people surrounding her could be the reason.

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Re: Does the Philippines Need Another Marcos?
« Reply #127 on: February 23, 2009, 08:40:40 AM »
this question should not be asked. the reason why? it's obvious!

then , let's delete this thread.

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Re: Does the Philippines Need Another Marcos?
« Reply #128 on: February 23, 2009, 08:45:36 AM »
We cannot delete this thread, because I for one am a Marcosian Apologist.



I am a fan of Marcos.

:)

In my opinion, he was the Greatest Filipino President, Ever.
His brilliance is undisputable. Most of the Republic Acts, which he wrote, are still enforced and still in use.

Aside from his corruption, the man was a Giant among his colleagues. He epitomizes a Politician. The goods and the bads.


President Ferdinand E. Marcos.
President of the Republic of the Philippines.



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glacier_71

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Re: Does the Philippines Need Another Marcos?
« Reply #129 on: February 23, 2009, 08:47:56 AM »
what made Marcos stick to you, enzo?  ;D

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Re: Does the Philippines Need Another Marcos?
« Reply #130 on: February 23, 2009, 08:53:01 AM »
I remember reading a book on Marcos several years back, as it was a topic of discussion in my College History Course.

We were assigned to write a 10 paged paper on Marcos and other Dictators of the time.

There was a quote that Marcos said in regards to difficulties of governing, which I used as my ending sentence in my paper,

"Leadership is the other side of the coin of loneliness, and he who is a leader must always act alone. And acting alone, accept everything alone. "




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Lorenzo

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Re: Does the Philippines Need Another Marcos?
« Reply #131 on: February 23, 2009, 08:57:52 AM »
For the most part, Marcos did good in Bohol. He brought electricity, he brought paved roads, and for the most part he brought peace and order to a country that once was ripe with murders, drug trade, rebellious activity, regional violence.

I admire his firm handedness, I admire his through deliberation, I admire his overall, view on the good of the Philippines.

He may not have been a Socratic Philosopher King, but he was one that crushed rebellious activities with the Hammer of the AFP.

Under Marcos, The Philippine Air Force and the Philippine Navy was feared in the region. MNLF rebels ran for their lives at the sound of the Footsteps of Divisions marching down to squash their insurgent activity.

Marcos' only enemy was Age and Time.

Time got the best of him.

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Lorenzo

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Re: Does the Philippines Need Another Marcos?
« Reply #132 on: February 23, 2009, 09:06:00 AM »
If you look at the political scheme, there was no president after Marcos that has made such an impact. Corruption and political malhandling that many attribute to the Great Marcos---these same leaders are themselves guilty of.

This Senator Lacson from Illocos who likes to raddle sabers and threaten GMA with political attacks is also a supporter of the terrorist NPA.

Had Marcos been alive, Lacson would have already been silenced on charges of National Treason.

These politicians who claim to be righteous and make proliferations on the need for change and etc etc are themselves guilty of vote buying, corruption etc.

When Marcos was in power, they ushered graces to Marcos, hailed him. And when people's power came at hand, then they back stabbed the President.

Same thing happened to Estrada.

Same thing happened to Aquino (who was threatened by mutineeing)



People's Power is a rebellious concept. Rebellion to government and to Order. Anarchistic, if you think about it (as it has been argued by a colleague of mine in my history class on Global Politics---several years ago)

When Marcos was President, the Military was vehemently loyal to him. No treasons, no confrontation. After Marcos, the military is 'feared' and is treated second class.

The Philippine Government deprive the AFP of much needed military equipment and improvement based ont he fact that they fear the Military.

Why fear the Military?

They should LOVE the military. Just like Marcos. Marcos Loved the Military. And the Military LOVED him.

Caesarian, in a way.

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Re: Does the Philippines Need Another Marcos?
« Reply #133 on: February 23, 2009, 09:18:43 AM »
The name Marcos is synonymous with dictatorship, unprecedented corruption, and abolition of democracy. It's definitely one, if not the worst, regime that we as a nation have had. This is I believe is the reason why many people abhor the name.

As a person, the name Marcos is arguably referred to the late Ferdinand, because of his character, brilliance and role in our history. We may never have a FEM again, but it's pathetic to realize how can this man be only associated with the ills and evils of a regime many would not want to remember, let alone be repeated.

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Re: Does the Philippines Need Another Marcos?
« Reply #134 on: February 23, 2009, 10:29:43 AM »
Glacier, did you read about the conversation Pres. Marcos had with Professor Yap?

Shortly after martial law was declared, Speaker Laurel asked Prof. Manoling Yap to accompany him to the said Palace meeting with Marcos. Marcos was known to be very close to the Laurels. Marcos felt that he owed his Supreme Court murder charge acquittal to the then Supreme Court Chief Justice (and later Japanese Occupation Philippine President) Jose Laurel Sr.

It was also Speaker Pepito Laurel who brought Marcos into the Nacionalista Party (NP) and paved the way for his nomination as NP Official Candidate for the 1965 Presidential Election which Marcos won over incumbent President Diosdado Macapagal.
In that Palace meeting, Laurel asked Marcos: “Brod, why did you have to declare martial law?” According to Manoling Yap, Marcos replied: “Brod, kung hindi ako nag-declare ng martial law, ako ang papatayin ng mga Amerikano."

I am not going to overlook the shortcomings of Ferdinand Marcos, as it would be unhistorical for me to do so. I simply just admire the man. His charisma, his endeavors and his Machiavellianismo attitude.

He was a Brilliant Politician. Brilliant. 

Marcos may be gone, but his living testaments are the Republic acts, which most of whom are still in use. He promulgated the Batasang Bayan, which would ultimately become the Interim Batasang Pambansa. We cannot say that he was a failure of a president, since his laws are still in force and in use to this very day.




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Re: Does the Philippines Need Another Marcos?
« Reply #135 on: February 23, 2009, 10:42:46 AM »
President Ferdinand Marcos,

Oh only if he hadn't abused his power.

Imagine what a President he could have been.



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Re: Does the Philippines Need Another Marcos?
« Reply #136 on: February 23, 2009, 11:16:29 AM »
actually, it depends on what kind of book you are reading, the author, the latter's knowledge of Philippine history prior to and after martial law.

he's got a brilliant brain, no doubt.

but as a President, need i doubt?

dong, please grab a copy of jovito salonga's books.

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Re: Does the Philippines Need Another Marcos?
« Reply #137 on: February 23, 2009, 11:34:43 AM »
President Ferdinand Marcos,

Oh only if he hadn't abused his power.

Imagine what a President he could have been.



none can argue of the mind FEM had, enzo. but what does a man profit if he gains the whole world and yet forfeit his soul. he may have gained the admiration among the academe and intellectuals, but he lost his soul among his countrymen he promised to serve. 

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Re: Does the Philippines Need Another Marcos?
« Reply #138 on: February 23, 2009, 12:49:41 PM »
We can never judge Marcos and say that he lost his soul. Who are we to say that he lost his soul, but God Himself.

Marcos could have, in his death bed, renounced his actions and yearned for forgiveness from The Lord, Whose mercy is beyond our reckoning and understanding.

Marcos was a devout Catholic in his life. He met the Holy Father, Pope John Paul II.

I am sure Marcos made his peace with God. In his own way.



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Re: Does the Philippines Need Another Marcos?
« Reply #139 on: February 23, 2009, 12:55:35 PM »
actually, it depends on what kind of book you are reading, the author, the latter's knowledge of Philippine history prior to and after martial law.

he's got a brilliant brain, no doubt.

but as a President, need i doubt?

dong, please grab a copy of jovito salonga's books.

Tito, I'll keep an eye out for Salonga's books. Never read his works, I admit.

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Re: Does the Philippines Need Another Marcos?
« Reply #140 on: February 23, 2009, 01:03:59 PM »
Marcos was a devout Catholic in his life. He met the Holy Father, Pope John Paul II.

dong, do you know that Marcos orchestrated an attempt on the life of the Pope when he visited the Philippines?

yes, he did.

also, the Pope deviated from the itinerary prepared by the Palace to meet Manila's slums to Imelda's shame because they were covering the squatter's area in the Pope's route with billboards.

LOL

grab one of salonga's works asap dong.

you won't regret it.

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Re: Does the Philippines Need Another Marcos?
« Reply #141 on: February 23, 2009, 01:05:02 PM »
marcos ang salot sa pilipinas!

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Re: Does the Philippines Need Another Marcos?
« Reply #142 on: February 23, 2009, 01:35:27 PM »
We can never judge Marcos and say that he lost his soul. Who are we to say that he lost his soul, but God Himself.

Marcos could have, in his death bed, renounced his actions and yearned for forgiveness from The Lord, Whose mercy is beyond our reckoning and understanding.

Marcos was a devout Catholic in his life. He met the Holy Father, Pope John Paul II.

I am sure Marcos made his peace with God. In his own way.



never i heard from the Marcoses expressing a word of apologies for what they'd done, like most politicians. i know no one can judge them or him. but as it's said, when the heart is full the mouth speaks. all they say up to this time is that they've done nothing against filipinos. it's no wonder the road to change of our nation is next to impossible, because no one is taking the responsibility, even the M's.   

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Re: Does the Philippines Need Another Marcos?
« Reply #143 on: February 23, 2009, 01:54:04 PM »
Hahaha, I love reading your responses. So much passion. I bet it would be different had I grown up living in those years instead of reading it just in books.

To do justice on the opposition, I'll read more on it, especially on your recommended readings, Tito Zosimo.

Mo read ko ani, ug ma human na ko sa basa, mo discuss napood ko ninyo ani.


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Re: Does the Philippines Need Another Marcos?
« Reply #144 on: February 23, 2009, 02:40:52 PM »
:-)

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Re: Does the Philippines Need Another Marcos?
« Reply #145 on: March 08, 2009, 05:16:12 AM »
I just got the copy, Mr. Zosimo.

When I am done, we shall talk about it. ;)

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Re: Does the Philippines Need Another Marcos?
« Reply #146 on: March 08, 2009, 05:24:03 AM »
We can never judge Marcos and say that he lost his soul. Who are we to say that he lost his soul, but God Himself.

Marcos could have, in his death bed, renounced his actions and yearned for forgiveness from The Lord, Whose mercy is beyond our reckoning and understanding.

Marcos was a devout Catholic in his life. He met the Holy Father, Pope John Paul II.

I am sure Marcos made his peace with God. In his own way.



He should have asked forgiveness to the Filipino people, not only to God.  I grew-up in a catholic school, we were taught to ask forgiveness first to the person whom we have sinned before we ask for divine absolution. 

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Re: Does the Philippines Need Another Marcos?
« Reply #147 on: March 08, 2009, 05:28:41 AM »
did Marcos become a Protestant later on?

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Re: Does the Philippines Need Another Marcos?
« Reply #148 on: March 08, 2009, 05:12:52 PM »
Yes, he bacame a protestant later in his life. That was when the first lady confined him inside a room located at the basement of Malacanyang. That time when he was sick of lopuz. He protested why his wife did the political affair of the country with Fabian Ver without him being consulted.

Recommended reading:

The Conjugal Dictatorship- (I forgot the author)
Not by Power Alone- J. V. Salonga

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Re: Does the Philippines Need Another Marcos?
« Reply #149 on: March 08, 2009, 11:05:13 PM »
Layman,

Thank you for the recommended readings. I will hungrily seek these and read it.

Respectfully Yours,
Bran Lorenzo

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Re: Does the Philippines Need Another Marcos?
« Reply #150 on: March 09, 2009, 08:48:32 AM »
grabe ka baho na kono ang pikpik ni imelda ron kay naabuso sa bata pa sya. ug motindog sa gi lingkoran, mo dugok kono daghang lagong!*# Jezzzzssus!

ngggeeeeek! grabheeee!

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Re: Does the Philippines Need Another Marcos?
« Reply #151 on: March 09, 2009, 08:49:51 AM »
That is nothing but heresay, Buwad.

I don't take rumors seriously. Anyone can start a rumor.



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Re: Does the Philippines Need Another Marcos?
« Reply #152 on: March 09, 2009, 08:54:11 AM »
tama ka lor, nahisgutan man gud namo last weekend kasama mga anak sa barkada ni imelda nga mga nacpil family. mao tawoy among sumsuman.

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Re: Does the Philippines Need Another Marcos?
« Reply #153 on: March 09, 2009, 03:12:00 PM »
Trivia:

Do you not know that all the more than 1,800 decrees, edicts, executive orders, letters of instruction and or laws enacted by the Batasang Pambansa signed by the former president Marcos is still in effect until today?

If Marcos was wrong or the system he followed is defective governments after him should have repealed all the laws he signed. Other contributors in TB will say; "Why is he not like Lee Kuan Yew?" Marcos and Lee Kuan Yew are the same dictators but people has a difference of perception. It's how the media put them in the newspapers you read.

WN   

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Re: Does the Philippines Need Another Marcos?
« Reply #154 on: March 09, 2009, 09:06:08 PM »
Trivia:

Do you not know that all the more than 1,800 decrees, edicts, executive orders, letters of instruction and or laws enacted by the Batasang Pambansa signed by the former president Marcos is still in effect until today?

If Marcos was wrong or the system he followed is defective governments after him should have repealed all the laws he signed. Other contributors in TB will say; "Why is he not like Lee Kuan Yew?" Marcos and Lee Kuan Yew are the same dictators but people has a difference of perception. It's how the media put them in the newspapers you read.

WN  

it's true, WN, that a lot of his laws are still in effect today.

but it never denies the fact how and what did he rob from the Filipino people.

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Re: Does the Philippines Need Another Marcos?
« Reply #155 on: March 09, 2009, 09:35:20 PM »
WE've had many leaders since we ousted Marcos, and yet we have barely budged from the ills of our society.

Corruption is at its worst, poverty festers, Muslim Mindanao still rages, political executions and street crimes surge. We have transformed Marcos' stopgap measure of exporting labor into the mainstay of our economic policy.

We have to realize that leadership is after all a mirror of the people that installs it. Marcos is dead for more than two decades. Historical witch-hunting among our leaders will do us no good if it only gives us a sense of being absolved from our own complicity as citizens. The social ills we're facing now are not his ghosts haunting us, but the work of the living.

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Re: Does the Philippines Need Another Marcos?
« Reply #156 on: March 10, 2009, 07:49:15 AM »

Political power has its relation to greed. I think Marcos is not immune to this thing when he grabbed power and declared Martial Law. But there are instances that leaders of a country will resort to drastic and emergency measure when they think that the country is in imminent danger of revolution. Marcos has this excuse of declaring "Martial Law" because in his judgment the Philippines was in danger of an armed revolution.

I believe Marcos had its good intention as every political leader in our country has. His motive in the declaration of Martial Law was to improve the lives of the people and change the Filipino society.

When he declared Martial Law Marcos saw that the Philippines was in darkness and he established NEA [National Electrification Administration] and because he was a dictator he commanded; Let there be light! And light shone on every barrio of the Philippines.

When he saw that Filipino farmers were less abundant in their harvests he established NIA [National Irrigation Administration] and irrigation started flowing to every paddy and ricefield in the Philippines. Starting with the Masagana 99 program the Philippines was able to have abundance in the production of palay and for the first time in our history during Marcos time we exported rice to some parts of the world.

Before our export products like copra and sugar were conducted in free enteprise style by greedy capitalists who transacted business in the high seas without the knowledge of the government. What I mean is that our export crops are smuggled outside the  Philippines without paying taxes to the government. Marcos revised this method by monopolizing the export of sugar and copra by government owned corporations so that the people will be benefitted by our own export products. 

During Martial Law the Philippine economy was entirely an agriculturally based nation and because of Marcos lofty ambition to promote the lives of the Filipinos he started to industrialize the whole Philippines. He invited foreign capitals to invest in our country. He established EPZA [Export Processing Zone Authority] in Bataan, Intel in Baguio, the Mactan Export Processing Zone in Cebu and the processing of electronic spare parts in Pasig. To generate power for these industrial zones he commended the expertise of Westinghouse Inc. to start building the nuclear plant to power electricity needs for these industrial complexes and electric consumption for the people of Luzon.

He also invited foreign capitals of the car industry to invest in the Philippines and with Filipino automotive engineer's designed cars we started designing for Filipino use and export to other countries. Toyota has the Tamaraw model, Mitsubishi has the Cimmaron, Volkswagen has the Sakbayan and Ford has the Feira. These are the initial models for development in the Philippines. Expecting the rise of the transport industry Marcos built the Philippine-Japan Friendship Highway from Mindanao to Luzon. He built also the two super-highways, the north and the south.

With this development there was no mass migration of Filipino workers to the Middle East. And the political opposition did not like this that they called Marcos a power hungry dictator. They protested that Marcos should conduct elections. Marcos conducted election but the opposition don't have a ghost of a chance of winning because they cannot show to the people any performance that will attract voters to vote for them. So the started the issue that Marcos was a cheat. Not only that they accused him as a thief.

The leftists not to be outdone with issues started destabilizing the government of Marcos by penetrating the workers with communists propaganda and urging them to unionize. The first two processing plants to fall were in Cainta and Pasig. Barbie who was making dolls in Cainta and employing thousands of Filipinos transferred to Bataan EPZA but Bataan EPZA was also penetrated by leftist union and eventually like a sand castle everything crumbled because of the penetration of labor unions.

And then the Philippine economy collapsed and rumors floated that Ninoy Aquino is coming back to the Philippines. True enough to our expectation he returned bringing along with him a number of journalists. Inside the plane while interviewed he averred that he is not the enemy of Marcos but the economy. Of course he is the enemy of the government because some people believed that he orchestrated in the collapsed of the Philippine economy.

The reason why he brought along with him a phalanx of news reporters is because he knew that he is the enemy of Marcos and any untowards incident these newsmen will be witnesses to his execution.

After his assassination at the airport tarmac is also the start of the demonization of Marcos. The sympathy of the people was with Ninoy even if Marcos had done more to the Filipinos than any other leaders of the Philippines.   

According to the words penned by a famous bard it says; "The evil that men do lives after them; The good is oft interred with their bones..."

Filipinos today forget the good deeds of Marcos because Marcos political enemies are still with us and they are now in power in government. And the industrialization of the Philippines which Marcos started is completely forgotten. The EPZA, the Bataan shipyard and the car industry which he started come to a complete halt and for this reason started the mass migration of laborers to the Middle East and some parts of the world.

WN





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Re: Does the Philippines Need Another Marcos?
« Reply #157 on: March 10, 2009, 08:40:43 AM »

With this development there was no mass migration of Filipino workers to the Middle East. And the political opposition did not like this that they called Marcos a power hungry dictator. They protested that Marcos should conduct elections. Marcos conducted election but the opposition don't have a ghost of a chance of winning because they cannot show to the people any performance that will attract voters to vote for them. So the started the issue that Marcos was a cheat. Not only that they accused him as a thief.

WN


While there are some truths to the observations of WN during the Marcos stewardship of the Philippine government, the above paragraph  did not reflect or give some hints of  truth during the Marcos era. There really was an emerging spur of industrial activities in some parts of the country with the creation of EPZA initiated by the Marcos government. It's true that substantial number of Filipino skills and labors were absorbed in this particular sector but labor migration to the Middle east were upswing that time with the tricky maneuvers of Marcos sidekick, Joe de Venecia. With the creation of the Landoil Group of companies by JDV, manpower migration increased in leaps and bounds. Every ambitious Filipinos were mindset to work in the Middle East for green bucks, which were true at the start until such time that it came to a point when Filipinos are banned from entering in some department stores because of noted mischiefs like shoplifting. Gambling and thieveries also proliferates in most Filipino camps because of the uncontrolled screening of Filipinos going to the Middle East. In fairness to JDV, because of his willingness to provide every male member of the Filipino family a job in that area, the screening processes were loosened enabling every malfeasant ex-convict and gambler a chance and extend their old bad habits abroad. Eventually, JDV was declared a persona-non-grata by the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia because of what has happened to his recruits.

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Re: Does the Philippines Need Another Marcos?
« Reply #158 on: March 10, 2009, 09:18:05 AM »
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Re: Does the Philippines Need Another Marcos?
« Reply #159 on: March 10, 2009, 09:40:53 AM »
A few comments to WN's astute observations:

While Marcos irrefutably put in place social infrastructure and industrial policy orientation that brought us a measure of prosperity, at least for a while, this could not be sustained because he increasingly concentrated political power to his office and shunted transparency and democratic accountability aside.

Martial Law was meant to be a stopgap, emergency measure to rein in insurgency. But the shield of invincibility it gave him against his political enemies induced him to extend it beyond its reasonable limits.

After the goal of suppressing leftist insurgency and other threats to government had been achieved, he should have voluntarily restored the political space for the opposition to participate. As it were, he allowed opposition to percolate with very little outlet for expression within the democratic arena. The massacre of Ninoy Aquino seems to me like the inevitable, logical end of such highhanded politics.



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Re: Does the Philippines Need Another Marcos?
« Reply #160 on: March 10, 2009, 10:03:20 AM »
The mass migration of Filipinos overseas--among those are we who now find a virtual Boholandia here at TB--cannot be attributed to the discontinuity of Marcos' industrialization policy by his successors, as WN implies. For his successors in fact embraced globalization and direct foreign investments with even more fervor than Marcos did... Just look at Ramos and even PGMA.

The trigger for mass migration was the Oil Shock of 1979 in the wake of the Iran Revolution. Without local oil sources and limited dollar revenues from export, Marcos turned to overseas labor market to boost our dollar reserve. It was also during this period that Saudi Arabia and other OPEC nations dramatically increased their production capacity, needing more manpower from overseas like the Philippines.

But the dollar windfall from OFW remittances was too good to forgo. So what was meant to be a stopgap measure was instituted as a pillar of our economic policy, long after oil prices have gone down.

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Re: Does the Philippines Need Another Marcos?
« Reply #161 on: March 10, 2009, 10:11:26 AM »
Way Nada,

Excellent analysis.

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Re: Does the Philippines Need Another Marcos?
« Reply #162 on: March 10, 2009, 11:38:06 AM »
now you have a co-admirer of FEM, enzo. hehehehe

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Re: Does the Philippines Need Another Marcos?
« Reply #163 on: March 10, 2009, 12:04:35 PM »
marcos? Jesus maajo kay naa pay tawo ni dajig aning tawhana. ka way nada estoryaha.

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Re: Does the Philippines Need Another Marcos?
« Reply #164 on: March 10, 2009, 01:07:03 PM »
Punto-por-Punto nga pamalandong ni Zosimo Calle sa pamalandong ni Way Nada:

Political power has its relation to greed. I think Marcos is not immune to this thing when he grabbed power and declared Martial Law. But there are instances that leaders of a country will resort to drastic and emergency measure when they think that the country is in imminent danger of revolution. Marcos has this excuse of declaring "Martial Law" because in his judgment the Philippines was in danger of an armed revolution.


the constitution provides that public office is public trust. from the above, it cannot be denied that the armed revolution Marcos imagined was never true.it was only a product of an insecure man's imagination. we'll he's entitled to his own entertainment.

I believe Marcos had its good intention as every political leader in our country has. His motive in the declaration of Martial Law was to improve the lives of the people and change the Filipino society.

intention was/is/will never enough. His motive was to improve the lives of his family and cronies and change the Filipino society into his own kingdom. remember the family picture where the Marcos dressed up like a royalty?

When he declared Martial Law Marcos saw that the Philippines was in darkness and he established NEA [National Electrification Administration] and because he was a dictator he commanded; Let there be light! And light shone on every barrio of the Philippines.
every barrio? lamparilya tawn mi taman 1990s! if you mean light sa lamparilya, aw tinoud na.

When he saw that Filipino farmers were less abundant in their harvests he established NIA [National Irrigation Administration] and irrigation started flowing to every paddy and ricefield in the Philippines. Starting with the Masagana 99 program the Philippines was able to have abundance in the production of palay and for the first time in our history during Marcos time we exported rice to some parts of the world.

every paddy and ricefield? kanus-a ra gani to nagka-irrigation sa pilar? 1990s na to oi. Masagana 99 was a total failure. If anything, ang kurakot ray nigana adto.

Before our export products like copra and sugar were conducted in free enteprise style by greedy capitalists who transacted business in the high seas without the knowledge of the government. What I mean is that our export crops are smuggled outside the  Philippines without paying taxes to the government. Marcos revised this method by monopolizing the export of sugar and copra by government owned corporations so that the people will be benefitted by our own export products. 

marcos saw that there was big money in copra and sugar that's why he monopolized it. he wanted control of the money from the industry. and look where it ended. the sugar and coco industries was in doldrums at the time of his ouster.

remember the coco levy funds guys? the fund was created by our farmers from their hard earned money. it was used by Marcos and cronies, particularly danding cojuangco, to buy shares in the phils foremost bluechip company, San Miguel.
During Martial Law the Philippine economy was entirely an agriculturally based nation and because of Marcos lofty ambition to promote the lives of the Filipinos he started to industrialize the whole Philippines. He invited foreign capitals to invest in our country. He established EPZA [Export Processing Zone Authority] in Bataan, Intel in Baguio, the Mactan Export Processing Zone in Cebu and the processing of electronic spare parts in Pasig. To generate power for these industrial zones he commended the expertise of Westinghouse Inc. to start building the nuclear plant to power electricity needs for these industrial complexes and electric consumption for the people of Luzon.
and what happened to the bataan nuclear power plant? billions and billions of dollars ended up nothing. bisan flashlight na lang unta di jud kapasiga.


He also invited foreign capitals of the car industry to invest in the Philippines and with Filipino automotive engineer's designed cars we started designing for Filipino use and export to other countries. Toyota has the Tamaraw model, Mitsubishi has the Cimmaron, Volkswagen has the Sakbayan and Ford has the Feira. These are the initial models for development in the Philippines. Expecting the rise of the transport industry Marcos built the Philippine-Japan Friendship Highway from Mindanao to Luzon. He built also the two super-highways, the north and the south.
from Mindanao to Luzon? where is it? can't see it there. i had the chance to take a landtrip from manila to bohol last year. was it marcos idea? were the roads built by Marcos? NO!

With this development there was no mass migration of Filipino workers to the Middle East. And the political opposition did not like this that they called Marcos a power hungry dictator. They protested that Marcos should conduct elections. Marcos conducted election but the opposition don't have a ghost of a chance of winning because they cannot show to the people any performance that will attract voters to vote for them. So the started the issue that Marcos was a cheat. Not only that they accused him as a thief.

Marcos had long been a thief and cheat. and by the way, he was a murderer, too!
They demanded an election because they had had enough.


The leftists not to be outdone with issues started destabilizing the government of Marcos by penetrating the workers with communists propaganda and urging them to unionize. The first two processing plants to fall were in Cainta and Pasig. Barbie who was making dolls in Cainta and employing thousands of Filipinos transferred to Bataan EPZA but Bataan EPZA was also penetrated by leftist union and eventually like a sand castle everything crumbled because of the penetration of labor unions.
labor unions are for the protection of our lowly paid workers. its for the protection of their rights. if the factories closed, it was because they were violating labor laws. they were violating the rights of the Filipino workers in their own land.

And then the Philippine economy collapsed and rumors floated that Ninoy Aquino is coming back to the Philippines. True enough to our expectation he returned bringing along with him a number of journalists. Inside the plane while interviewed he averred that he is not the enemy of Marcos but the economy. Of course he is the enemy of the government because some people believed that he orchestrated in the collapsed of the Philippine economy.
i could not imagine how ninoy orchestrated the collapse of the phil economy. economics 101: kung walay kwarta mga tawo kay toa ang kwarta sa gawas gitaguan ni marcos, especially in switzerland, way demand, way halin mga kompanya, so magsira sila, mawad-an ug trabaho ang mga empleyado,etc...

The reason why he brought along with him a phalanx of news reporters is because he knew that he is the enemy of Marcos and any untowards incident these newsmen will be witnesses to his execution.
the reporters were  not brought by Ninoy. they went with him.

After his assassination at the airport tarmac is also the start of the demonization of Marcos. The sympathy of the people was with Ninoy even if Marcos had done more to the Filipinos than any other leaders of the Philippines.   

he need not be demonized. he was a demon long before that.

According to the words penned by a famous bard it says; "The evil that men do lives after them; The good is oft interred with their bones..."
way nada!

Filipinos today forget the good deeds of Marcos because Marcos political enemies are still with us and they are now in power in government. And the industrialization of the Philippines which Marcos started is completely forgotten. The EPZA, the Bataan shipyard and the car industry which he started come to a complete halt and for this reason started the mass migration of laborers to the Middle East and some parts of the world.


Marcos deeds? we didn't forget, and never will. and we'll always remember.

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Re: Does the Philippines Need Another Marcos?
« Reply #165 on: March 10, 2009, 01:15:55 PM »
The greatness and legacy of the man that was Ferdinand E. Marcos will forever be etched in the mind of the Filipino; abroad and domestic.

Lest we forget of his successes, his failures, his trials, his rise, his fall, his story.

We all have different views on the man that was Ferdinand E. Marcos.

Like any historical subject, date, epoch, there will be two sides of the coin.



 Your Excellency, President Ferdinand E. Marcos, I salute you, sir.



*bow*



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Re: Does the Philippines Need Another Marcos?
« Reply #166 on: March 10, 2009, 01:19:47 PM »
Punto-por-Punto nga pamalandong ni Zosimo Calle sa pamalandong ni Way Nada:


the constitution provides that public office is public trust. from the above, it cannot be denied that the armed revolution Marcos imagined was never true.it was only a product of an insecure man's imagination. we'll he's entitled to his own entertainment.
intention was/is/will never enough. His motive was to improve the lives of his family and cronies and change the Filipino society into his own kingdom. remember the family picture where the Marcos dressed up like a royalty?every barrio? lamparilya tawn mi taman 1990s! if you mean light sa lamparilya, aw tinoud na.
every paddy and ricefield? kanus-a ra gani to nagka-irrigation sa pilar? 1990s na to oi. Masagana 99 was a total failure. If anything, ang kurakot ray nigana adto.
marcos saw that there was big money in copra and sugar that's why he monopolized it. he wanted control of the money from the industry. and look where it ended. the sugar and coco industries was in doldrums at the time of his ouster.

remember the coco levy funds guys? the fund was created by our farmers from their hard earned money. it was used by Marcos and cronies, particularly danding cojuangco, to buy shares in the phils foremost bluechip company, San Miguel.and what happened to the bataan nuclear power plant? billions and billions of dollars ended up nothing. bisan flashlight na lang unta di jud kapasiga.from Mindanao to Luzon? where is it? can't see it there. i had the chance to take a landtrip from manila to bohol last year. was it marcos idea? were the roads built by Marcos? NO!
Marcos had long been a thief and cheat. and by the way, he was a murderer, too!
They demanded an election because they had had enough.labor unions are for the protection of our lowly paid workers. its for the protection of their rights. if the factories closed, it was because they were violating labor laws. they were violating the rights of the Filipino workers in their own land.i could not imagine how ninoy orchestrated the collapse of the phil economy. economics 101: kung walay kwarta mga tawo kay toa ang kwarta sa gawas gitaguan ni marcos, especially in switzerland, way demand, way halin mga kompanya, so magsira sila, mawad-an ug trabaho ang mga empleyado,etc...the reporters were  not brought by Ninoy. they went with him.
he need not be demonized. he was a demon long before that.way nada!
Marcos deeds? we didn't forget, and never will. and we'll always remember.

my salute to you, bay calle. well, well said.

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Re: Does the Philippines Need Another Marcos?
« Reply #167 on: March 10, 2009, 01:26:08 PM »
calle,

a toast of o-sake to you, my friend

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Re: Does the Philippines Need Another Marcos?
« Reply #168 on: March 10, 2009, 01:26:23 PM »
my salute to you, bay calle. well, well said.

matsalams, ehehee!

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Re: Does the Philippines Need Another Marcos?
« Reply #169 on: March 10, 2009, 01:27:23 PM »
I would not say that Marcos was a demon, Tito Zosimo.

I would more like to say that he held the reigns of power and manifested the political culture of the day. Dictatorships were common in the 60s-80s; the reign of Marcos was a chapter in Filipino history.

His consolidation of power and his presidential decrees regarding laws and statues manifested the man's innate brilliance, and political animalism.

The truth of the matter is that most of his policies and laws are in use to this day.

He had his goods and his bads. Like any politician. Albeit, his was more absolute.

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Re: Does the Philippines Need Another Marcos?
« Reply #170 on: March 10, 2009, 01:31:36 PM »
Emotionalism aside,

I would place His Excellency in the same pedestal as that of:

1. Mahatma K. Gandhi
2. Franklin D. Roosevelt
3. Abraham Lincoln
4. Simon Bolivar
5. Deng Xiaopeng

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Re: Does the Philippines Need Another Marcos?
« Reply #171 on: March 10, 2009, 01:44:46 PM »
In the United States, especially in Political Science Halls, Marcos is a popular topic.

Why?

He fascinates the American mind. Marcos' shear brilliance leaves American Political Scientists and pre-law students asking, "How could he have done such?"

In the western notion of revolution, the deposition of a ruler and the cleansing of the old regime's political presence is mandatory, in order to legitimize the rule of the new regime. 

Case in point: The French Revolution, Russian Bolshevik Revolution, The Peninsular Revolution, etc.

Requirement for a 'revolution' is the repudiation of laws, statutes, and unfair edicts by the 'old regime'. As in the case of the Nazi Party in Germany.

However, Marcos' predicament is unusual, in the American eye.

Not only is this man the center of debate amongst educated and learned Filipinos (opposition vs. apologist), however, this very same man that was ousted from power, his legacy remains, despite emotional disdain.

His is the case where a President is emotionally hated by many; yet the political spectrum cannot completely repudiate and banish Marcos due to his shear brilliance. Over 1,000 laws/edicts/statutes/promulgations initiated by Marcos exist to this day.


Was the People's Power Revolution a true and complete revolution?

Of course not. The man may be gone, but his lasting presence is in the Law.

That's what makes Marcos Unique.

Hated by many, yet Loved and Admired by a multitude.

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Re: Does the Philippines Need Another Marcos?
« Reply #172 on: March 10, 2009, 05:56:36 PM »
I had a chance to sit in some of those so called Political Science Halls of the Americas as an observer for quite sometime now. Nowhere did I hear Marcos' name.

I have read most, if not all, of Marcos' decrees. (Yabang!)

And I agree, he had a great mind. But are laws and policies enough??? Think again.

In the Philippines, we have more than enough laws and regulations. the problem really is Not on its existence but on its IMPLEMENTATION!

Now, did Marcos implement his policies? No, he did not!

As I've said, laws and policies are not enough. you have to implement.

Intentions were/are/will never be enough! 

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Re: Does the Philippines Need Another Marcos?
« Reply #173 on: March 10, 2009, 08:35:10 PM »
Ondoy Lorenzo . you should read more about his past. The country is carrying a cross which started in his regime.

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Re: Does the Philippines Need Another Marcos?
« Reply #174 on: March 10, 2009, 08:43:19 PM »
Emotionalism aside,

I would place His Excellency in the same pedestal as that of:

1. Mahatma K. Gandhi
2. Franklin D. Roosevelt
3. Abraham Lincoln
4. Simon Bolivar
5. Deng Xiaopeng

hahahaha. funny. or whatever.

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Re: Does the Philippines Need Another Marcos?
« Reply #175 on: March 10, 2009, 09:07:05 PM »
I would not say that Marcos was a demon, Tito Zosimo.

I would more like to say that he held the reigns of power and manifested the political culture of the day. Dictatorships were common in the 60s-80s; the reign of Marcos was a chapter in Filipino history.

His consolidation of power and his presidential decrees regarding laws and statues manifested the man's innate brilliance, and political animalism.

The truth of the matter is that most of his policies and laws are in use to this day.

He had his goods and his bads. Like any politician. Albeit, his was more absolute.

you should travel the entire archipelago, bay enzo, see and hear for yourself the truth behind the brilliance of your "hero". ask and talk to people. i understand a person of such aura and intelligence certainly is attractive to your kind. however to promote and adore him to that level is a vilification and affront to the memory of many a people who suffered and died under the regime of the man whom you hardly "knew". it's impossible to detach emotion from this table of discussion because the issue is more than theoretical, hypothetical or abstract. we're dealing with memory; FEM is beyond the structures and laws he created. your embellishment to the man is just as the same as denying the sacredness of the good-willed souls who fought for freedom and justice, either for their sakes or for their nation. 

i suggest if you happen to go home, bring a placard with the name of FEM and all your praises of him, just go to a street in Manila or a Plaza and hold up your poster, let us know once you come home if you feel proud of what you are doing. or if you can feel the "love of the multitude."

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Re: Does the Philippines Need Another Marcos?
« Reply #176 on: March 11, 2009, 03:11:10 AM »
Glacier and others,

It is imperative for one to analyze the picture detached from any semblance of emotion and raw feelings. Don't get personally involved. Clearly, there are differences in opinion regarding the policies, statutes of the late Ferdinand E. Marcos.  My view may be different from yours, and yours mine. However, I respect your right to opine. I would also like that same right to be reciprocated.

There will be discourse regarding this thread, but what makes us, learned and intelligent minds, ipsilateral is our ability to analyze and illustrate our own opinion on said matter.

Differences will arise. But let us agree that we have the right to disagree.


Firmly Yours,
Bran Lorenzo

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Re: Does the Philippines Need Another Marcos?
« Reply #177 on: March 11, 2009, 04:32:38 AM »
Of course I beg to diagree and I respect your opinion.
I need time to put into words to say my view.
In the other hand I´m wondering how on earth could you say so, I mean saluting this dead president? What had influenced you?
There are some relevant events that happened which must have escaped your knowledge.

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Re: Does the Philippines Need Another Marcos?
« Reply #178 on: March 11, 2009, 06:06:45 AM »
Glacier and others,

It is imperative for one to analyze the picture detached from any semblance of emotion and raw feelings. Don't get personally involved. Clearly, there are differences in opinion regarding the policies, statutes of the late Ferdinand E. Marcos.  My view may be different from yours, and yours mine. However, I respect your right to opine. I would also like that same right to be reciprocated.

There will be discourse regarding this thread, but what makes us, learned and intelligent minds, ipsilateral is our ability to analyze and illustrate our own opinion on said matter.

Differences will arise. But let us agree that we have the right to disagree.


Firmly Yours,
Bran Lorenzo

i respect 100% of your opinion, enzo, don't i?

this discussion however is always charged with passion and emotions. like it or not. For me, Marcos Era is the dark age of our Philippine history just as Hitler's Holocaust is to Germany and the world.

no amount of erudite debate and exchange of views can heal the damage caused by his regime. to forget it is to betray our history, our people, our being a nation. i even find your comparison of FEM to several world leaders (previous post) insulting, in my humble view. as ever, i deem it necessary to gracefully smile at your opinion, because i respect it. although, disheartening.

i cannot fully remember what happened in those 20 years...all i have are vicarious experiences of people who are witnesses of this unforgettable part of our history.

my regards.

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Re: Does the Philippines Need Another Marcos?
« Reply #179 on: March 11, 2009, 07:54:46 AM »
I admire Marcos' vision, particularly during his earlier years. Prior to Martial Law.
His style of governance is rather similar to those of Lincoln. Not many know that President Abraham Lincoln suspended Habeas Corpus in the United States Union during the American Civil War. His policies, anti-riot policies, a man that supported the totality of Union Forces in bending the Confederacy-even if it meant utilizing Total War Tactics--were all effectively administered for the preservation of the Union.

Lincoln is hated and beloved by many. Diehard southerners regard him as a brutal dictator and supporter of 'Northern Aggression', whilst a great majority of US historians would claim that his actions--though unpopular in his time, were necessary and mandated in order to secure and faithfully preserve the Union of these United States. Which, by law, is an eternal union of states.

African American supporters would even claim that the man was the 'Liberator' of the slaves, though clearly, it was obvious that Lincoln's primary goal was for the preservation of the union, second was the goal to break the Confederacy; and lastly in regards to the slaves. The emancipation of the slaves was a tertiary appeal; which he cleverly implemented to garnish British and French support--thereby, alienating the C.S.A.

So as you can see; its all a matter of perspective.

Marcos was an idealistic individual. I admire his ambition, his firm-handedness, and his repertoire. He became rather absolutist and autocratic in his later years--a result of unchallenged Control. An effect of absolute power.

However, and nonetheless, I admire his ideals. I admire his rise to power, his life in prison, and his proficiency in the law--undeniable considering he aced the national bars.

I would not dare compare Marcos to Hitler. Marcos epitomized the Machiavellian prince.

I love his story. And I respect the man.


Cheers,
Yours,
Lorenzo

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Re: Does the Philippines Need Another Marcos?
« Reply #180 on: March 11, 2009, 08:32:47 AM »
WHEN WILL WE EVER LEARN?

I've said before that Filipinos are still the best hope for the Philippines. Now, i think, I want to make some exceptions.

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Re: Does the Philippines Need Another Marcos?
« Reply #181 on: March 11, 2009, 08:54:53 AM »
Tito Zosimo,

Please don't take things too seriously. I was just sharing my view lang. Let not our differences in opinion be an obstacle to our similarities.

In fraternity,
Bran Lorenzo

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Re: Does the Philippines Need Another Marcos?
« Reply #182 on: March 11, 2009, 12:05:50 PM »
"The Philippines is a nation of 40 million cowards and one son of a bitch." -- by unnamed ranking cabinet member of the Reagan administration, 1982. (attributed to Secretary of State George Shultz)

"The second most corrupt head of government ever (after Suharto)" -- by Transparency International, 2003

..."But the biggest treasure trove may be sheaves of documents that were brought to Hawaii by the Marcoses. Lawyers representing the Aquino government in the U.S. believe these papers could detail not only the size of the Marcos fortune worldwide, but also how it was acquired. Through diplomatic channels, Aquino has asked for a full inventory of the documents, but the Reagan Administration will undoubtedly defer the matter to the courts. Anticipating a long legal battle, Salonga makes no effort to conceal his frustration. "My God, it seems incongruous to me that customs officials in Honolulu have access to these documents, and yet the Philippine government does not," he says. "What made it possible for Marcos to rule this country for 20 years was the impact of American backing. As Bishop Desmond Tutu said when he testified before Congress, 'Your policy is evil, immoral and totally unchristian.' "

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Re: Does the Philippines Need Another Marcos?
« Reply #183 on: March 11, 2009, 12:19:43 PM »
LOR, FRANKLY, IN THE FIRST PLACE. THIS QUESTION SHOULD NOT BE ASK. HUH!

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buwadsanga

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Re: Does the Philippines Need Another Marcos?
« Reply #184 on: March 11, 2009, 12:20:54 PM »
HOW CAN I DELETE TB TOPICS HERE? KINDLY ADVICE. THANK YOU

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Re: Does the Philippines Need Another Marcos?
« Reply #185 on: March 11, 2009, 12:26:54 PM »
OFTENTIMES PIPOL ARE MISLEAD. THEY DONT KNOW THE SUFFERINGS OF THE POLITICAL PRISONERS AND THE DIAPEARANCES OF POLITICAL FOE, OPPRESION OF THE PRESS. THE ABUSED BY THE MILITARY THAT WAS STARTED DURING THE MARTIAL LAW YEARS. THE PROPAGATION OF PADRINO AYSTEM THAT WAS RAMPANT IN ALL THOSE TIME THAT LEAD US TO A POINT IN PRESENT TIME WHERE PHILIPPINES IS THE SICK MAN IN ASIA. 

I WOULD NOT WISH TO BE ADVICED ON THIS TOPIC. HOW CAN I DELETE THIS ONE?

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TOPAC

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Re: Does the Philippines Need Another Marcos?
« Reply #186 on: March 11, 2009, 01:46:32 PM »
Tito Zosimo,

Please don't take things too seriously. I was just sharing my view lang. Let not our differences in opinion be an obstacle to our similarities.

In fraternity,
Bran Lorenzo

as if this matter need not be taken seriously! you had better ask the families of the thousands who were tortured and murdered during his reign.

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hofelina

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Re: Does the Philippines Need Another Marcos?
« Reply #187 on: March 11, 2009, 06:17:45 PM »
Tito Zosimo,
He he he, I admire your postings, I don´t know what to post,  the topic is overwhelming for me.
May your tribe increase Ondoy.

ingat,
Manay

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Re: Does the Philippines Need Another Marcos?
« Reply #188 on: March 11, 2009, 08:34:21 PM »
brod enzo

you're stepping on a landmine of our history.

good luck!

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Lorenzo

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Re: Does the Philippines Need Another Marcos?
« Reply #189 on: March 11, 2009, 11:41:30 PM »
If this topic is painful for members in here, know that it was started because we, the Filipino-American youth who did not grow up under the Marcos regime or remember it, have a keen interest in understanding policies.

I myself, have learned alot from the postings of members in here, specifically, Way Nada, Calle, Glacier, Hofelina, Layman, Benne-san and the entire lot.

This is a learning experience, for me, and am sure for my fellow Americans, Filipino-Americans who did not have such experiences.

To ask, is to learn, to be corrected is to learn, to listen is to learn.

This thread is not only educative, but also enlightening.

I thank all of you for your personal input. As an American and growing up in the United States, my knowledge on recent Filipino history, policy, and discourse is limited, compared to you all, who grew up and lived/live in the Philippines.

I gain knowledge from your experiences, your voices, your different points of view.

Keep on sharing.


Fondly Yours,
And With My Deep Respect,
Bran Lorenzo

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TOPAC

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Re: Does the Philippines Need Another Marcos?
« Reply #190 on: March 12, 2009, 08:21:48 AM »
:-)

Way Nada

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Re: Does the Philippines Need Another Marcos?
« Reply #191 on: March 12, 2009, 12:22:02 PM »
If this topic is painful for members in here, know that it was started because we, the Filipino-American youth who did not grow up under the Marcos regime or remember it, have a keen interest in understanding policies.

I myself, have learned alot from the postings of members in here, specifically, Way Nada, Calle, Glacier, Hofelina, Layman, Benne-san and the entire lot.

This is a learning experience, for me, and am sure for my fellow Americans, Filipino-Americans who did not have such experiences.

To ask, is to learn, to be corrected is to learn, to listen is to learn.

This thread is not only educative, but also enlightening.

I thank all of you for your personal input. As an American and growing up in the United States, my knowledge on recent Filipino history, policy, and discourse is limited, compared to you all, who grew up and lived/live in the Philippines.

I gain knowledge from your experiences, your voices, your different points of view.

Keep on sharing.


Fondly Yours,
And With My Deep Respect,
Bran Lorenzo

Lorenzo,

The Philippine political system is a copy of America. But I have this observation from the past that even if they are politically allign they differ in the observance of real politik. But with the emergence strength of the internet used by the left in America real politik is getting nastier by the day.

I'll give you an idea what I mean. Previous political campaigns in the US don't apply mud slinging as a way to attract voters but today the American left uses the power of the internet to smear, malign and throw mud to candidates. The victim of this mud slinging is Sarah Palin.

Now let's go to the conservatives. One of the issues they raised today against Pres. Barack Obama is "earmarks". Other term of earmarks is "pork barrel". In my observation the US conservatives or Republicans are not using the issue of earmarks to refer to corruption.

But in the Philippines "pork barrel" to senators and congressmen are being castigated in the Philippine media as corruption. You get what I mean?

WN   

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Lorenzo

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Re: Does the Philippines Need Another Marcos?
« Reply #192 on: March 12, 2009, 12:33:39 PM »
Absolutely, Way Nada,

It is all about perspective. One man's prince is another man's pauper, pardon my figurative language.

I thank you for your astute observation in regards to Marcos,  I enjoyed reading it.

Very academic. :)

Have you engaged in professional debate format? Your style is akin to Lincoln-Douglass Debaters, to which I was part of in college.


Lorenzo

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Way Nada

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Re: Does the Philippines Need Another Marcos?
« Reply #193 on: March 12, 2009, 01:40:02 PM »
Lorenzo,

I believe and in my opinion because the Philippine media is too licentious in using freedom of the press people tend to believe that Filipino politicians are the worst in the world. They don't know that government officials all over the world are almost the same as our own politicians when it comes to government perks, privileges, dealing with allowances and money matters. The difference is how it is being carried or published by the media. The Philippine media deals too much in the issue of real politik while other countries like for example Australia, Singapore and Malaysia give more weight on the issue of ethical politics in the media.

This is the difference how freedom of the press is being practiced. Some people will come to think that freedom to lie is guaranteed by law in the Philippines. In other countries for example Australia or Singapore the press cannot publish any article that is derogatory to any person without the media having documents to prove its accusation as true. Even if it's true in some instances the media has no right to take pictures on their faces and putting them on TV, that's why their faces are being blurred to protect their privacy. In Australia by law, the press has no right to criticize government departments but because they have a tradition of tolerance they let it some trivial criticisms to have a go. 

The most vicious that the media did to the Filipinos was when they initiated the ouster of Erap. The media was the primary factor in the destruction of democracy in the Philippines.   

WN 

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Re: Does the Philippines Need Another Marcos?
« Reply #194 on: March 12, 2009, 04:20:02 PM »
:-)

A Layman

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Re: Does the Philippines Need Another Marcos?
« Reply #195 on: March 13, 2009, 07:56:56 AM »
Granting that political maneuverings are the same throughout the world and differs only by means of media coverage, how come that our country is still the sluggish country in Asia in terms of economy? The most corrupt country in Asia? If a person's quality and character is reflected by what he does and accomplished, how would you say about our country's politicians? Are they considered, the best? For me, they are the best swindlers in the world!

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TOPAC

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Re: Does the Philippines Need Another Marcos?
« Reply #196 on: March 13, 2009, 08:32:36 AM »
Granting that political maneuverings are the same throughout the world and differs only by means of media coverage, how come that our country is still the sluggish country in Asia in terms of economy? The most corrupt country in Asia? If a person's quality and character is reflected by what he does and accomplished, how would you say about our country's politicians? Are they considered, the best? For me, they are the best swindlers in the world!

Bull's eye!

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Re: Does the Philippines Need Another Marcos?
« Reply #197 on: March 14, 2009, 07:51:19 AM »
Lorenzo,

I believe and in my opinion because the Philippine media is too licentious in using freedom of the press people tend to believe that Filipino politicians are the worst in the world. They don't know that government officials all over the world are almost the same as our own politicians when it comes to government perks, privileges, dealing with allowances and money matters. The difference is how it is being carried or published by the media. The Philippine media deals too much in the issue of real politik while other countries like for example Australia, Singapore and Malaysia give more weight on the issue of ethical politics in the media.

This is the difference how freedom of the press is being practiced. Some people will come to think that freedom to lie is guaranteed by law in the Philippines. In other countries for example Australia or Singapore the press cannot publish any article that is derogatory to any person without the media having documents to prove its accusation as true. Even if it's true in some instances the media has no right to take pictures on their faces and putting them on TV, that's why their faces are being blurred to protect their privacy. In Australia by law, the press has no right to criticize government departments but because they have a tradition of tolerance they let it some trivial criticisms to have a go. 

The most vicious that the media did to the Filipinos was when they initiated the ouster of Erap. The media was the primary factor in the destruction of democracy in the Philippines.  

WN 

Thank you for sharing your view, Way Nada.

Accountability needs to be secured and realized. There is no such thing as a perfect government, never will and never shall be.



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Re: Does the Philippines Need Another Marcos?
« Reply #198 on: March 14, 2009, 10:16:05 AM »
Granting that political maneuverings are the same throughout the world and differs only by means of media coverage, how come that our country is still the sluggish country in Asia in terms of economy? The most corrupt country in Asia? If a person's quality and character is reflected by what he does and accomplished, how would you say about our country's politicians? Are they considered, the best? For me, they are the best swindlers in the world!

More corrupt than Marcos, I suppose. :'( :-[ :-[

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Re: Does the Philippines Need Another Marcos?
« Reply #199 on: March 18, 2009, 12:33:47 PM »
Granting that political maneuverings are the same throughout the world and differs only by means of media coverage, how come that our country is still the sluggish country in Asia in terms of economy? The most corrupt country in Asia? If a person's quality and character is reflected by what he does and accomplished, how would you say about our country's politicians? Are they considered, the best? For me, they are the best swindlers in the world!

Alay,

In your posting asking the question; "How come that our country is still the sluggish country in Asia in terms of economy?"... You answered it yourself by saying that; "[We] differ only by means of media coverage".

I would like to give you an idea elaborating your reply about how the media... say for example in Singapore and Australia, differ from the Philippines in their coverage about their governments and leaders making us sluggish in Asia economically.

Singapore like Australia inherited their legal system from the British. There is a British law that says; "The media or no person cannot criticize any department or office of the British government." But even with the presence of this law in Singapore and Australia their governments today are adapting tolerance criticism to their governments. They can criticize their governments twice or thrice but not all the time. When the media sense that their criticism can create chaos especially in the economy they will shift the topic to another issue.

This is what they call constructive criticism!

This was also copied by Marcos when he declared Martial Law. Marcos closed all media publications like the Manila Chronicle, Manila Times, Philippine Herald and other press outlets criticizing the government. He created the press tribunal and the KBP or Kapisanan ng mga Brodkaster sa Pilipinas. The purpose of the closure of all media outlets was to revise and make it as economic partner towards progress with the government.

But this was not received favorably by the few elite in Manila like the Roceses and the Lopezes who are media moguls in the Philippines and whose publications were closed by Marcos. The members of the academe, the Philippine clergy and the intelligentsia were among the few who defied Marcos and his Martial Law regime.

Even if they were few they are more politically influential than the majority who embraced Marcos Martial Law regime. Remember that Marcos government is a right of center government and these few Manila elite who were in the opposition has the power to influence international organizations who are leftists like Amnesty International and Transparency International or the Guinness Book of World Records to demonize Marcos and his government. Please note also that these 3 organizations are based in England but their influence in the British press are limited. Why? Because they are not allowed by law. So they are exporting their ideology to our country whose people has this wrong notion of freedom of the press and democracy.

By criticizing Marcos and his government after the lifting of Martial Law, the Philippine press believed that their criticism is constructive. The people, because they were blinded by the press, didn't know that the press criticism against Marcos is destructive criticism. It made the Marcos government fall.

The most vicious that the media did to the Filipino people was when they made themselves instrumental in the ouster of Erap and the destruction of the Philippine government and our democracy. Erap was elected by the overwhelming majority of the people but the few elite in Manila didn't like Erap because he was elected by the Filipino poor. 

WN



     



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