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Author Topic: Does the Philippines Need Another Marcos?  (Read 18856 times)

benelynne

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Re: Does the Philippines Need Another Marcos?
« Reply #160 on: March 10, 2009, 10:03:20 AM »
The mass migration of Filipinos overseas--among those are we who now find a virtual Boholandia here at TB--cannot be attributed to the discontinuity of Marcos' industrialization policy by his successors, as WN implies. For his successors in fact embraced globalization and direct foreign investments with even more fervor than Marcos did... Just look at Ramos and even PGMA.

The trigger for mass migration was the Oil Shock of 1979 in the wake of the Iran Revolution. Without local oil sources and limited dollar revenues from export, Marcos turned to overseas labor market to boost our dollar reserve. It was also during this period that Saudi Arabia and other OPEC nations dramatically increased their production capacity, needing more manpower from overseas like the Philippines.

But the dollar windfall from OFW remittances was too good to forgo. So what was meant to be a stopgap measure was instituted as a pillar of our economic policy, long after oil prices have gone down.

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Lorenzo

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Re: Does the Philippines Need Another Marcos?
« Reply #161 on: March 10, 2009, 10:11:26 AM »
Way Nada,

Excellent analysis.

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Re: Does the Philippines Need Another Marcos?
« Reply #162 on: March 10, 2009, 11:38:06 AM »
now you have a co-admirer of FEM, enzo. hehehehe

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Re: Does the Philippines Need Another Marcos?
« Reply #163 on: March 10, 2009, 12:04:35 PM »
marcos? Jesus maajo kay naa pay tawo ni dajig aning tawhana. ka way nada estoryaha.

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Re: Does the Philippines Need Another Marcos?
« Reply #164 on: March 10, 2009, 01:07:03 PM »
Punto-por-Punto nga pamalandong ni Zosimo Calle sa pamalandong ni Way Nada:

Political power has its relation to greed. I think Marcos is not immune to this thing when he grabbed power and declared Martial Law. But there are instances that leaders of a country will resort to drastic and emergency measure when they think that the country is in imminent danger of revolution. Marcos has this excuse of declaring "Martial Law" because in his judgment the Philippines was in danger of an armed revolution.


the constitution provides that public office is public trust. from the above, it cannot be denied that the armed revolution Marcos imagined was never true.it was only a product of an insecure man's imagination. we'll he's entitled to his own entertainment.

I believe Marcos had its good intention as every political leader in our country has. His motive in the declaration of Martial Law was to improve the lives of the people and change the Filipino society.

intention was/is/will never enough. His motive was to improve the lives of his family and cronies and change the Filipino society into his own kingdom. remember the family picture where the Marcos dressed up like a royalty?

When he declared Martial Law Marcos saw that the Philippines was in darkness and he established NEA [National Electrification Administration] and because he was a dictator he commanded; Let there be light! And light shone on every barrio of the Philippines.
every barrio? lamparilya tawn mi taman 1990s! if you mean light sa lamparilya, aw tinoud na.

When he saw that Filipino farmers were less abundant in their harvests he established NIA [National Irrigation Administration] and irrigation started flowing to every paddy and ricefield in the Philippines. Starting with the Masagana 99 program the Philippines was able to have abundance in the production of palay and for the first time in our history during Marcos time we exported rice to some parts of the world.

every paddy and ricefield? kanus-a ra gani to nagka-irrigation sa pilar? 1990s na to oi. Masagana 99 was a total failure. If anything, ang kurakot ray nigana adto.

Before our export products like copra and sugar were conducted in free enteprise style by greedy capitalists who transacted business in the high seas without the knowledge of the government. What I mean is that our export crops are smuggled outside the  Philippines without paying taxes to the government. Marcos revised this method by monopolizing the export of sugar and copra by government owned corporations so that the people will be benefitted by our own export products. 

marcos saw that there was big money in copra and sugar that's why he monopolized it. he wanted control of the money from the industry. and look where it ended. the sugar and coco industries was in doldrums at the time of his ouster.

remember the coco levy funds guys? the fund was created by our farmers from their hard earned money. it was used by Marcos and cronies, particularly danding cojuangco, to buy shares in the phils foremost bluechip company, San Miguel.
During Martial Law the Philippine economy was entirely an agriculturally based nation and because of Marcos lofty ambition to promote the lives of the Filipinos he started to industrialize the whole Philippines. He invited foreign capitals to invest in our country. He established EPZA [Export Processing Zone Authority] in Bataan, Intel in Baguio, the Mactan Export Processing Zone in Cebu and the processing of electronic spare parts in Pasig. To generate power for these industrial zones he commended the expertise of Westinghouse Inc. to start building the nuclear plant to power electricity needs for these industrial complexes and electric consumption for the people of Luzon.
and what happened to the bataan nuclear power plant? billions and billions of dollars ended up nothing. bisan flashlight na lang unta di jud kapasiga.


He also invited foreign capitals of the car industry to invest in the Philippines and with Filipino automotive engineer's designed cars we started designing for Filipino use and export to other countries. Toyota has the Tamaraw model, Mitsubishi has the Cimmaron, Volkswagen has the Sakbayan and Ford has the Feira. These are the initial models for development in the Philippines. Expecting the rise of the transport industry Marcos built the Philippine-Japan Friendship Highway from Mindanao to Luzon. He built also the two super-highways, the north and the south.
from Mindanao to Luzon? where is it? can't see it there. i had the chance to take a landtrip from manila to bohol last year. was it marcos idea? were the roads built by Marcos? NO!

With this development there was no mass migration of Filipino workers to the Middle East. And the political opposition did not like this that they called Marcos a power hungry dictator. They protested that Marcos should conduct elections. Marcos conducted election but the opposition don't have a ghost of a chance of winning because they cannot show to the people any performance that will attract voters to vote for them. So the started the issue that Marcos was a cheat. Not only that they accused him as a thief.

Marcos had long been a thief and cheat. and by the way, he was a murderer, too!
They demanded an election because they had had enough.


The leftists not to be outdone with issues started destabilizing the government of Marcos by penetrating the workers with communists propaganda and urging them to unionize. The first two processing plants to fall were in Cainta and Pasig. Barbie who was making dolls in Cainta and employing thousands of Filipinos transferred to Bataan EPZA but Bataan EPZA was also penetrated by leftist union and eventually like a sand castle everything crumbled because of the penetration of labor unions.
labor unions are for the protection of our lowly paid workers. its for the protection of their rights. if the factories closed, it was because they were violating labor laws. they were violating the rights of the Filipino workers in their own land.

And then the Philippine economy collapsed and rumors floated that Ninoy Aquino is coming back to the Philippines. True enough to our expectation he returned bringing along with him a number of journalists. Inside the plane while interviewed he averred that he is not the enemy of Marcos but the economy. Of course he is the enemy of the government because some people believed that he orchestrated in the collapsed of the Philippine economy.
i could not imagine how ninoy orchestrated the collapse of the phil economy. economics 101: kung walay kwarta mga tawo kay toa ang kwarta sa gawas gitaguan ni marcos, especially in switzerland, way demand, way halin mga kompanya, so magsira sila, mawad-an ug trabaho ang mga empleyado,etc...

The reason why he brought along with him a phalanx of news reporters is because he knew that he is the enemy of Marcos and any untowards incident these newsmen will be witnesses to his execution.
the reporters were  not brought by Ninoy. they went with him.

After his assassination at the airport tarmac is also the start of the demonization of Marcos. The sympathy of the people was with Ninoy even if Marcos had done more to the Filipinos than any other leaders of the Philippines.   

he need not be demonized. he was a demon long before that.

According to the words penned by a famous bard it says; "The evil that men do lives after them; The good is oft interred with their bones..."
way nada!

Filipinos today forget the good deeds of Marcos because Marcos political enemies are still with us and they are now in power in government. And the industrialization of the Philippines which Marcos started is completely forgotten. The EPZA, the Bataan shipyard and the car industry which he started come to a complete halt and for this reason started the mass migration of laborers to the Middle East and some parts of the world.


Marcos deeds? we didn't forget, and never will. and we'll always remember.

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Lorenzo

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Re: Does the Philippines Need Another Marcos?
« Reply #165 on: March 10, 2009, 01:15:55 PM »
The greatness and legacy of the man that was Ferdinand E. Marcos will forever be etched in the mind of the Filipino; abroad and domestic.

Lest we forget of his successes, his failures, his trials, his rise, his fall, his story.

We all have different views on the man that was Ferdinand E. Marcos.

Like any historical subject, date, epoch, there will be two sides of the coin.



 Your Excellency, President Ferdinand E. Marcos, I salute you, sir.



*bow*



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Re: Does the Philippines Need Another Marcos?
« Reply #166 on: March 10, 2009, 01:19:47 PM »
Punto-por-Punto nga pamalandong ni Zosimo Calle sa pamalandong ni Way Nada:


the constitution provides that public office is public trust. from the above, it cannot be denied that the armed revolution Marcos imagined was never true.it was only a product of an insecure man's imagination. we'll he's entitled to his own entertainment.
intention was/is/will never enough. His motive was to improve the lives of his family and cronies and change the Filipino society into his own kingdom. remember the family picture where the Marcos dressed up like a royalty?every barrio? lamparilya tawn mi taman 1990s! if you mean light sa lamparilya, aw tinoud na.
every paddy and ricefield? kanus-a ra gani to nagka-irrigation sa pilar? 1990s na to oi. Masagana 99 was a total failure. If anything, ang kurakot ray nigana adto.
marcos saw that there was big money in copra and sugar that's why he monopolized it. he wanted control of the money from the industry. and look where it ended. the sugar and coco industries was in doldrums at the time of his ouster.

remember the coco levy funds guys? the fund was created by our farmers from their hard earned money. it was used by Marcos and cronies, particularly danding cojuangco, to buy shares in the phils foremost bluechip company, San Miguel.and what happened to the bataan nuclear power plant? billions and billions of dollars ended up nothing. bisan flashlight na lang unta di jud kapasiga.from Mindanao to Luzon? where is it? can't see it there. i had the chance to take a landtrip from manila to bohol last year. was it marcos idea? were the roads built by Marcos? NO!
Marcos had long been a thief and cheat. and by the way, he was a murderer, too!
They demanded an election because they had had enough.labor unions are for the protection of our lowly paid workers. its for the protection of their rights. if the factories closed, it was because they were violating labor laws. they were violating the rights of the Filipino workers in their own land.i could not imagine how ninoy orchestrated the collapse of the phil economy. economics 101: kung walay kwarta mga tawo kay toa ang kwarta sa gawas gitaguan ni marcos, especially in switzerland, way demand, way halin mga kompanya, so magsira sila, mawad-an ug trabaho ang mga empleyado,etc...the reporters were  not brought by Ninoy. they went with him.
he need not be demonized. he was a demon long before that.way nada!
Marcos deeds? we didn't forget, and never will. and we'll always remember.

my salute to you, bay calle. well, well said.

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benelynne

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Re: Does the Philippines Need Another Marcos?
« Reply #167 on: March 10, 2009, 01:26:08 PM »
calle,

a toast of o-sake to you, my friend

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Re: Does the Philippines Need Another Marcos?
« Reply #168 on: March 10, 2009, 01:26:23 PM »
my salute to you, bay calle. well, well said.

matsalams, ehehee!

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Re: Does the Philippines Need Another Marcos?
« Reply #169 on: March 10, 2009, 01:27:23 PM »
I would not say that Marcos was a demon, Tito Zosimo.

I would more like to say that he held the reigns of power and manifested the political culture of the day. Dictatorships were common in the 60s-80s; the reign of Marcos was a chapter in Filipino history.

His consolidation of power and his presidential decrees regarding laws and statues manifested the man's innate brilliance, and political animalism.

The truth of the matter is that most of his policies and laws are in use to this day.

He had his goods and his bads. Like any politician. Albeit, his was more absolute.

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Lorenzo

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Re: Does the Philippines Need Another Marcos?
« Reply #170 on: March 10, 2009, 01:31:36 PM »
Emotionalism aside,

I would place His Excellency in the same pedestal as that of:

1. Mahatma K. Gandhi
2. Franklin D. Roosevelt
3. Abraham Lincoln
4. Simon Bolivar
5. Deng Xiaopeng

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Re: Does the Philippines Need Another Marcos?
« Reply #171 on: March 10, 2009, 01:44:46 PM »
In the United States, especially in Political Science Halls, Marcos is a popular topic.

Why?

He fascinates the American mind. Marcos' shear brilliance leaves American Political Scientists and pre-law students asking, "How could he have done such?"

In the western notion of revolution, the deposition of a ruler and the cleansing of the old regime's political presence is mandatory, in order to legitimize the rule of the new regime. 

Case in point: The French Revolution, Russian Bolshevik Revolution, The Peninsular Revolution, etc.

Requirement for a 'revolution' is the repudiation of laws, statutes, and unfair edicts by the 'old regime'. As in the case of the Nazi Party in Germany.

However, Marcos' predicament is unusual, in the American eye.

Not only is this man the center of debate amongst educated and learned Filipinos (opposition vs. apologist), however, this very same man that was ousted from power, his legacy remains, despite emotional disdain.

His is the case where a President is emotionally hated by many; yet the political spectrum cannot completely repudiate and banish Marcos due to his shear brilliance. Over 1,000 laws/edicts/statutes/promulgations initiated by Marcos exist to this day.


Was the People's Power Revolution a true and complete revolution?

Of course not. The man may be gone, but his lasting presence is in the Law.

That's what makes Marcos Unique.

Hated by many, yet Loved and Admired by a multitude.

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Re: Does the Philippines Need Another Marcos?
« Reply #172 on: March 10, 2009, 05:56:36 PM »
I had a chance to sit in some of those so called Political Science Halls of the Americas as an observer for quite sometime now. Nowhere did I hear Marcos' name.

I have read most, if not all, of Marcos' decrees. (Yabang!)

And I agree, he had a great mind. But are laws and policies enough??? Think again.

In the Philippines, we have more than enough laws and regulations. the problem really is Not on its existence but on its IMPLEMENTATION!

Now, did Marcos implement his policies? No, he did not!

As I've said, laws and policies are not enough. you have to implement.

Intentions were/are/will never be enough! 

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Re: Does the Philippines Need Another Marcos?
« Reply #173 on: March 10, 2009, 08:35:10 PM »
Ondoy Lorenzo . you should read more about his past. The country is carrying a cross which started in his regime.

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Re: Does the Philippines Need Another Marcos?
« Reply #174 on: March 10, 2009, 08:43:19 PM »
Emotionalism aside,

I would place His Excellency in the same pedestal as that of:

1. Mahatma K. Gandhi
2. Franklin D. Roosevelt
3. Abraham Lincoln
4. Simon Bolivar
5. Deng Xiaopeng

hahahaha. funny. or whatever.

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Re: Does the Philippines Need Another Marcos?
« Reply #175 on: March 10, 2009, 09:07:05 PM »
I would not say that Marcos was a demon, Tito Zosimo.

I would more like to say that he held the reigns of power and manifested the political culture of the day. Dictatorships were common in the 60s-80s; the reign of Marcos was a chapter in Filipino history.

His consolidation of power and his presidential decrees regarding laws and statues manifested the man's innate brilliance, and political animalism.

The truth of the matter is that most of his policies and laws are in use to this day.

He had his goods and his bads. Like any politician. Albeit, his was more absolute.

you should travel the entire archipelago, bay enzo, see and hear for yourself the truth behind the brilliance of your "hero". ask and talk to people. i understand a person of such aura and intelligence certainly is attractive to your kind. however to promote and adore him to that level is a vilification and affront to the memory of many a people who suffered and died under the regime of the man whom you hardly "knew". it's impossible to detach emotion from this table of discussion because the issue is more than theoretical, hypothetical or abstract. we're dealing with memory; FEM is beyond the structures and laws he created. your embellishment to the man is just as the same as denying the sacredness of the good-willed souls who fought for freedom and justice, either for their sakes or for their nation. 

i suggest if you happen to go home, bring a placard with the name of FEM and all your praises of him, just go to a street in Manila or a Plaza and hold up your poster, let us know once you come home if you feel proud of what you are doing. or if you can feel the "love of the multitude."

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Re: Does the Philippines Need Another Marcos?
« Reply #176 on: March 11, 2009, 03:11:10 AM »
Glacier and others,

It is imperative for one to analyze the picture detached from any semblance of emotion and raw feelings. Don't get personally involved. Clearly, there are differences in opinion regarding the policies, statutes of the late Ferdinand E. Marcos.  My view may be different from yours, and yours mine. However, I respect your right to opine. I would also like that same right to be reciprocated.

There will be discourse regarding this thread, but what makes us, learned and intelligent minds, ipsilateral is our ability to analyze and illustrate our own opinion on said matter.

Differences will arise. But let us agree that we have the right to disagree.


Firmly Yours,
Bran Lorenzo

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Re: Does the Philippines Need Another Marcos?
« Reply #177 on: March 11, 2009, 04:32:38 AM »
Of course I beg to diagree and I respect your opinion.
I need time to put into words to say my view.
In the other hand I´m wondering how on earth could you say so, I mean saluting this dead president? What had influenced you?
There are some relevant events that happened which must have escaped your knowledge.

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Re: Does the Philippines Need Another Marcos?
« Reply #178 on: March 11, 2009, 06:06:45 AM »
Glacier and others,

It is imperative for one to analyze the picture detached from any semblance of emotion and raw feelings. Don't get personally involved. Clearly, there are differences in opinion regarding the policies, statutes of the late Ferdinand E. Marcos.  My view may be different from yours, and yours mine. However, I respect your right to opine. I would also like that same right to be reciprocated.

There will be discourse regarding this thread, but what makes us, learned and intelligent minds, ipsilateral is our ability to analyze and illustrate our own opinion on said matter.

Differences will arise. But let us agree that we have the right to disagree.


Firmly Yours,
Bran Lorenzo

i respect 100% of your opinion, enzo, don't i?

this discussion however is always charged with passion and emotions. like it or not. For me, Marcos Era is the dark age of our Philippine history just as Hitler's Holocaust is to Germany and the world.

no amount of erudite debate and exchange of views can heal the damage caused by his regime. to forget it is to betray our history, our people, our being a nation. i even find your comparison of FEM to several world leaders (previous post) insulting, in my humble view. as ever, i deem it necessary to gracefully smile at your opinion, because i respect it. although, disheartening.

i cannot fully remember what happened in those 20 years...all i have are vicarious experiences of people who are witnesses of this unforgettable part of our history.

my regards.

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Lorenzo

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Re: Does the Philippines Need Another Marcos?
« Reply #179 on: March 11, 2009, 07:54:46 AM »
I admire Marcos' vision, particularly during his earlier years. Prior to Martial Law.
His style of governance is rather similar to those of Lincoln. Not many know that President Abraham Lincoln suspended Habeas Corpus in the United States Union during the American Civil War. His policies, anti-riot policies, a man that supported the totality of Union Forces in bending the Confederacy-even if it meant utilizing Total War Tactics--were all effectively administered for the preservation of the Union.

Lincoln is hated and beloved by many. Diehard southerners regard him as a brutal dictator and supporter of 'Northern Aggression', whilst a great majority of US historians would claim that his actions--though unpopular in his time, were necessary and mandated in order to secure and faithfully preserve the Union of these United States. Which, by law, is an eternal union of states.

African American supporters would even claim that the man was the 'Liberator' of the slaves, though clearly, it was obvious that Lincoln's primary goal was for the preservation of the union, second was the goal to break the Confederacy; and lastly in regards to the slaves. The emancipation of the slaves was a tertiary appeal; which he cleverly implemented to garnish British and French support--thereby, alienating the C.S.A.

So as you can see; its all a matter of perspective.

Marcos was an idealistic individual. I admire his ambition, his firm-handedness, and his repertoire. He became rather absolutist and autocratic in his later years--a result of unchallenged Control. An effect of absolute power.

However, and nonetheless, I admire his ideals. I admire his rise to power, his life in prison, and his proficiency in the law--undeniable considering he aced the national bars.

I would not dare compare Marcos to Hitler. Marcos epitomized the Machiavellian prince.

I love his story. And I respect the man.


Cheers,
Yours,
Lorenzo

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Re: Does the Philippines Need Another Marcos?
« Reply #180 on: March 11, 2009, 08:32:47 AM »
WHEN WILL WE EVER LEARN?

I've said before that Filipinos are still the best hope for the Philippines. Now, i think, I want to make some exceptions.

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:-)

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Re: Does the Philippines Need Another Marcos?
« Reply #181 on: March 11, 2009, 08:54:53 AM »
Tito Zosimo,

Please don't take things too seriously. I was just sharing my view lang. Let not our differences in opinion be an obstacle to our similarities.

In fraternity,
Bran Lorenzo

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Re: Does the Philippines Need Another Marcos?
« Reply #182 on: March 11, 2009, 12:05:50 PM »
"The Philippines is a nation of 40 million cowards and one son of a bitch." -- by unnamed ranking cabinet member of the Reagan administration, 1982. (attributed to Secretary of State George Shultz)

"The second most corrupt head of government ever (after Suharto)" -- by Transparency International, 2003

..."But the biggest treasure trove may be sheaves of documents that were brought to Hawaii by the Marcoses. Lawyers representing the Aquino government in the U.S. believe these papers could detail not only the size of the Marcos fortune worldwide, but also how it was acquired. Through diplomatic channels, Aquino has asked for a full inventory of the documents, but the Reagan Administration will undoubtedly defer the matter to the courts. Anticipating a long legal battle, Salonga makes no effort to conceal his frustration. "My God, it seems incongruous to me that customs officials in Honolulu have access to these documents, and yet the Philippine government does not," he says. "What made it possible for Marcos to rule this country for 20 years was the impact of American backing. As Bishop Desmond Tutu said when he testified before Congress, 'Your policy is evil, immoral and totally unchristian.' "

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buwadsanga

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Re: Does the Philippines Need Another Marcos?
« Reply #183 on: March 11, 2009, 12:19:43 PM »
LOR, FRANKLY, IN THE FIRST PLACE. THIS QUESTION SHOULD NOT BE ASK. HUH!

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Re: Does the Philippines Need Another Marcos?
« Reply #184 on: March 11, 2009, 12:20:54 PM »
HOW CAN I DELETE TB TOPICS HERE? KINDLY ADVICE. THANK YOU

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Re: Does the Philippines Need Another Marcos?
« Reply #185 on: March 11, 2009, 12:26:54 PM »
OFTENTIMES PIPOL ARE MISLEAD. THEY DONT KNOW THE SUFFERINGS OF THE POLITICAL PRISONERS AND THE DIAPEARANCES OF POLITICAL FOE, OPPRESION OF THE PRESS. THE ABUSED BY THE MILITARY THAT WAS STARTED DURING THE MARTIAL LAW YEARS. THE PROPAGATION OF PADRINO AYSTEM THAT WAS RAMPANT IN ALL THOSE TIME THAT LEAD US TO A POINT IN PRESENT TIME WHERE PHILIPPINES IS THE SICK MAN IN ASIA. 

I WOULD NOT WISH TO BE ADVICED ON THIS TOPIC. HOW CAN I DELETE THIS ONE?

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Re: Does the Philippines Need Another Marcos?
« Reply #186 on: March 11, 2009, 01:46:32 PM »
Tito Zosimo,

Please don't take things too seriously. I was just sharing my view lang. Let not our differences in opinion be an obstacle to our similarities.

In fraternity,
Bran Lorenzo

as if this matter need not be taken seriously! you had better ask the families of the thousands who were tortured and murdered during his reign.

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:-)

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Re: Does the Philippines Need Another Marcos?
« Reply #187 on: March 11, 2009, 06:17:45 PM »
Tito Zosimo,
He he he, I admire your postings, I don´t know what to post,  the topic is overwhelming for me.
May your tribe increase Ondoy.

ingat,
Manay

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Re: Does the Philippines Need Another Marcos?
« Reply #188 on: March 11, 2009, 08:34:21 PM »
brod enzo

you're stepping on a landmine of our history.

good luck!

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Re: Does the Philippines Need Another Marcos?
« Reply #189 on: March 11, 2009, 11:41:30 PM »
If this topic is painful for members in here, know that it was started because we, the Filipino-American youth who did not grow up under the Marcos regime or remember it, have a keen interest in understanding policies.

I myself, have learned alot from the postings of members in here, specifically, Way Nada, Calle, Glacier, Hofelina, Layman, Benne-san and the entire lot.

This is a learning experience, for me, and am sure for my fellow Americans, Filipino-Americans who did not have such experiences.

To ask, is to learn, to be corrected is to learn, to listen is to learn.

This thread is not only educative, but also enlightening.

I thank all of you for your personal input. As an American and growing up in the United States, my knowledge on recent Filipino history, policy, and discourse is limited, compared to you all, who grew up and lived/live in the Philippines.

I gain knowledge from your experiences, your voices, your different points of view.

Keep on sharing.


Fondly Yours,
And With My Deep Respect,
Bran Lorenzo

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Re: Does the Philippines Need Another Marcos?
« Reply #190 on: March 12, 2009, 08:21:48 AM »
:-)

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Re: Does the Philippines Need Another Marcos?
« Reply #191 on: March 12, 2009, 12:22:02 PM »
If this topic is painful for members in here, know that it was started because we, the Filipino-American youth who did not grow up under the Marcos regime or remember it, have a keen interest in understanding policies.

I myself, have learned alot from the postings of members in here, specifically, Way Nada, Calle, Glacier, Hofelina, Layman, Benne-san and the entire lot.

This is a learning experience, for me, and am sure for my fellow Americans, Filipino-Americans who did not have such experiences.

To ask, is to learn, to be corrected is to learn, to listen is to learn.

This thread is not only educative, but also enlightening.

I thank all of you for your personal input. As an American and growing up in the United States, my knowledge on recent Filipino history, policy, and discourse is limited, compared to you all, who grew up and lived/live in the Philippines.

I gain knowledge from your experiences, your voices, your different points of view.

Keep on sharing.


Fondly Yours,
And With My Deep Respect,
Bran Lorenzo

Lorenzo,

The Philippine political system is a copy of America. But I have this observation from the past that even if they are politically allign they differ in the observance of real politik. But with the emergence strength of the internet used by the left in America real politik is getting nastier by the day.

I'll give you an idea what I mean. Previous political campaigns in the US don't apply mud slinging as a way to attract voters but today the American left uses the power of the internet to smear, malign and throw mud to candidates. The victim of this mud slinging is Sarah Palin.

Now let's go to the conservatives. One of the issues they raised today against Pres. Barack Obama is "earmarks". Other term of earmarks is "pork barrel". In my observation the US conservatives or Republicans are not using the issue of earmarks to refer to corruption.

But in the Philippines "pork barrel" to senators and congressmen are being castigated in the Philippine media as corruption. You get what I mean?

WN   

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Re: Does the Philippines Need Another Marcos?
« Reply #192 on: March 12, 2009, 12:33:39 PM »
Absolutely, Way Nada,

It is all about perspective. One man's prince is another man's pauper, pardon my figurative language.

I thank you for your astute observation in regards to Marcos,  I enjoyed reading it.

Very academic. :)

Have you engaged in professional debate format? Your style is akin to Lincoln-Douglass Debaters, to which I was part of in college.


Lorenzo

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Re: Does the Philippines Need Another Marcos?
« Reply #193 on: March 12, 2009, 01:40:02 PM »
Lorenzo,

I believe and in my opinion because the Philippine media is too licentious in using freedom of the press people tend to believe that Filipino politicians are the worst in the world. They don't know that government officials all over the world are almost the same as our own politicians when it comes to government perks, privileges, dealing with allowances and money matters. The difference is how it is being carried or published by the media. The Philippine media deals too much in the issue of real politik while other countries like for example Australia, Singapore and Malaysia give more weight on the issue of ethical politics in the media.

This is the difference how freedom of the press is being practiced. Some people will come to think that freedom to lie is guaranteed by law in the Philippines. In other countries for example Australia or Singapore the press cannot publish any article that is derogatory to any person without the media having documents to prove its accusation as true. Even if it's true in some instances the media has no right to take pictures on their faces and putting them on TV, that's why their faces are being blurred to protect their privacy. In Australia by law, the press has no right to criticize government departments but because they have a tradition of tolerance they let it some trivial criticisms to have a go. 

The most vicious that the media did to the Filipinos was when they initiated the ouster of Erap. The media was the primary factor in the destruction of democracy in the Philippines.   

WN 

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Re: Does the Philippines Need Another Marcos?
« Reply #194 on: March 12, 2009, 04:20:02 PM »
:-)

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Re: Does the Philippines Need Another Marcos?
« Reply #195 on: March 13, 2009, 07:56:56 AM »
Granting that political maneuverings are the same throughout the world and differs only by means of media coverage, how come that our country is still the sluggish country in Asia in terms of economy? The most corrupt country in Asia? If a person's quality and character is reflected by what he does and accomplished, how would you say about our country's politicians? Are they considered, the best? For me, they are the best swindlers in the world!

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Re: Does the Philippines Need Another Marcos?
« Reply #196 on: March 13, 2009, 08:32:36 AM »
Granting that political maneuverings are the same throughout the world and differs only by means of media coverage, how come that our country is still the sluggish country in Asia in terms of economy? The most corrupt country in Asia? If a person's quality and character is reflected by what he does and accomplished, how would you say about our country's politicians? Are they considered, the best? For me, they are the best swindlers in the world!

Bull's eye!

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Re: Does the Philippines Need Another Marcos?
« Reply #197 on: March 14, 2009, 07:51:19 AM »
Lorenzo,

I believe and in my opinion because the Philippine media is too licentious in using freedom of the press people tend to believe that Filipino politicians are the worst in the world. They don't know that government officials all over the world are almost the same as our own politicians when it comes to government perks, privileges, dealing with allowances and money matters. The difference is how it is being carried or published by the media. The Philippine media deals too much in the issue of real politik while other countries like for example Australia, Singapore and Malaysia give more weight on the issue of ethical politics in the media.

This is the difference how freedom of the press is being practiced. Some people will come to think that freedom to lie is guaranteed by law in the Philippines. In other countries for example Australia or Singapore the press cannot publish any article that is derogatory to any person without the media having documents to prove its accusation as true. Even if it's true in some instances the media has no right to take pictures on their faces and putting them on TV, that's why their faces are being blurred to protect their privacy. In Australia by law, the press has no right to criticize government departments but because they have a tradition of tolerance they let it some trivial criticisms to have a go. 

The most vicious that the media did to the Filipinos was when they initiated the ouster of Erap. The media was the primary factor in the destruction of democracy in the Philippines.  

WN 

Thank you for sharing your view, Way Nada.

Accountability needs to be secured and realized. There is no such thing as a perfect government, never will and never shall be.



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Re: Does the Philippines Need Another Marcos?
« Reply #198 on: March 14, 2009, 10:16:05 AM »
Granting that political maneuverings are the same throughout the world and differs only by means of media coverage, how come that our country is still the sluggish country in Asia in terms of economy? The most corrupt country in Asia? If a person's quality and character is reflected by what he does and accomplished, how would you say about our country's politicians? Are they considered, the best? For me, they are the best swindlers in the world!

More corrupt than Marcos, I suppose. :'( :-[ :-[

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Re: Does the Philippines Need Another Marcos?
« Reply #199 on: March 18, 2009, 12:33:47 PM »
Granting that political maneuverings are the same throughout the world and differs only by means of media coverage, how come that our country is still the sluggish country in Asia in terms of economy? The most corrupt country in Asia? If a person's quality and character is reflected by what he does and accomplished, how would you say about our country's politicians? Are they considered, the best? For me, they are the best swindlers in the world!

Alay,

In your posting asking the question; "How come that our country is still the sluggish country in Asia in terms of economy?"... You answered it yourself by saying that; "[We] differ only by means of media coverage".

I would like to give you an idea elaborating your reply about how the media... say for example in Singapore and Australia, differ from the Philippines in their coverage about their governments and leaders making us sluggish in Asia economically.

Singapore like Australia inherited their legal system from the British. There is a British law that says; "The media or no person cannot criticize any department or office of the British government." But even with the presence of this law in Singapore and Australia their governments today are adapting tolerance criticism to their governments. They can criticize their governments twice or thrice but not all the time. When the media sense that their criticism can create chaos especially in the economy they will shift the topic to another issue.

This is what they call constructive criticism!

This was also copied by Marcos when he declared Martial Law. Marcos closed all media publications like the Manila Chronicle, Manila Times, Philippine Herald and other press outlets criticizing the government. He created the press tribunal and the KBP or Kapisanan ng mga Brodkaster sa Pilipinas. The purpose of the closure of all media outlets was to revise and make it as economic partner towards progress with the government.

But this was not received favorably by the few elite in Manila like the Roceses and the Lopezes who are media moguls in the Philippines and whose publications were closed by Marcos. The members of the academe, the Philippine clergy and the intelligentsia were among the few who defied Marcos and his Martial Law regime.

Even if they were few they are more politically influential than the majority who embraced Marcos Martial Law regime. Remember that Marcos government is a right of center government and these few Manila elite who were in the opposition has the power to influence international organizations who are leftists like Amnesty International and Transparency International or the Guinness Book of World Records to demonize Marcos and his government. Please note also that these 3 organizations are based in England but their influence in the British press are limited. Why? Because they are not allowed by law. So they are exporting their ideology to our country whose people has this wrong notion of freedom of the press and democracy.

By criticizing Marcos and his government after the lifting of Martial Law, the Philippine press believed that their criticism is constructive. The people, because they were blinded by the press, didn't know that the press criticism against Marcos is destructive criticism. It made the Marcos government fall.

The most vicious that the media did to the Filipino people was when they made themselves instrumental in the ouster of Erap and the destruction of the Philippine government and our democracy. Erap was elected by the overwhelming majority of the people but the few elite in Manila didn't like Erap because he was elected by the Filipino poor. 

WN



     



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