Author Topic: America Will Not Help Philippines in War vs China (Read 2664 times)

pioneer · « **on:** June 12, 2011, 07:40:30 PM »

By Julie M. Aurelio, Norman Bordadora
Philippine Daily Inquirer

The United States yesterday said it will not side with any party in the Spratlys conflict, which is to say that the Philippinesâ€™ most powerful ally will not be coming to its aid should its spat with China escalate into a shooting war.

The US Embassy made this clear yesterday in reaction to a MalacaÃ±ang statement earlier yesterday expressing confidence that Washington would honor its commitment under the two countriesâ€™ Mutual Defense Treaty to come to the aid of a beleaguered ally.

â€œThe US does not take sides in regional territorial disputes,â€ the US press attachÃ© Rebecca Thompson said in an e-mailed statement when contacted for comment to deputy presidential spokesperson Abigail Valteâ€™s invoking of the 60-year-old MDT.

Thompson said the US was â€œtroubled by incidents in the South China Sea in recent days that have raised tensions in the regionâ€ and that Washington opposes â€œthe use or threat of forceâ€ by any of the countries with rival claims to the Spratly islands.

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hubag bohol · « **Reply #1 on:** June 12, 2011, 07:55:49 PM »

Of course the US wouldn't, or would say that it wouldn't. Helping the Philippines in this spat, or saying that it would, is against its national self-interest.

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pioneer · « **Reply #2 on:** June 12, 2011, 08:43:33 PM »

America's economy is dependent on China. Sorry, my beloved country Philippines.

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hubag bohol · « **Reply #3 on:** June 12, 2011, 10:26:07 PM »

"Nations have no permanent friends and no permanent enemies. Only permanent interests."

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lindy · « **Reply #4 on:** June 13, 2011, 01:10:23 AM »

thats how life is. weather weather lang gihapon.

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bol-anon quo nyur! · « **Reply #5 on:** June 13, 2011, 01:44:02 AM »

I don't buy sa giingon sa US nga dili sila motabang sa pinas kong mo ataki ang China...I want to see China attack our beloved country first, then after that, WHO KNOW's!

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chicogon · « **Reply #6 on:** June 13, 2011, 09:09:23 AM »

Attack mga dugong Maharlika (dili Melrose!)

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hubag bohol · « **Reply #7 on:** June 13, 2011, 09:29:56 AM »

I don't buy sa giingon sa US nga dili sila motabang sa pinas kong mo ataki ang China...I want to see China attack our beloved country first, then after that, WHO KNOW's!

Masters of doublespeak jud nuon ning mga Merkano...

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statesville · « **Reply #8 on:** June 13, 2011, 10:16:50 AM »

Syempre kon moapil sa lantugi delikado mapanilngan sa trilyones nga utang sa tsina
walay ikabayad ang mga amerkano ..

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Raquelproud boholana · « **Reply #9 on:** June 13, 2011, 01:34:06 PM »

Syempre kon moapil sa lantugi delikado mapanilngan sa trilyones nga utang sa tsina
walay ikabayad ang mga amerkano ..

Kinasaktuhan, hagit panilngan. Ihatag nalang diay nang Spratly sa China aron way samok.

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bol-anon quo nyur! · « **Reply #10 on:** June 14, 2011, 12:37:44 PM »

http://newsinfo.inquirer.net/14681/3-us-warships-join-war-games

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statesville · « **Reply #11 on:** June 16, 2011, 11:06:54 PM »

Pangutan-a si Jovito kay siya nag broke the tie when the senate voted
mao nibalhin ang Subic base ngadto sa Guam,
tan-awa naay nagbully ? ang resulta kon may tabang ba moabot..

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islander · « **Reply #12 on:** June 16, 2011, 11:33:13 PM »

Kinasaktuhan, hagit panilngan. Ihatag nalang diay nang Spratly sa China aron way samok.

mas lisod, raqz. no country in the world will ever give up a territory that easily. not only is territorial integrity at stake but national pride as well. an example is falklands, which is british and very far away from britain. in the 1980s argentina and britain went to war over this very small territory where there are more sheep than people.

ingnon nato nga naa koy residential lot. nagkural ang akong kasikbit nga silingan pero nilampas ug usa ka metro ang utlanan, niabhak sa akong yuta. hapaan nako ang akong katungod, abot sa korte. kana, kun di una ko mangluthang.

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islander · « **Reply #13 on:** June 16, 2011, 11:43:20 PM »

this usual doublespeak of an official statement from the u.s. embassy in manila is obvious. that's the language of diplomacy. say one thing officially, do something else as covertly as possible. one must never doubt that the u.s. won't allow china to dominate these busy sea lanes, which would make it so if china succeeds in claiming the whole spratlys archipelago (i.e., no resistance from all other claimants). the u.s. will help the philippines not because it loves our country but because it has to protect its own interests.

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vrglguapo · « **Reply #14 on:** June 16, 2011, 11:51:20 PM »

sakto gyud na..pero maayo diplomasia ang una gamiton unya kay ug mag guera mura lang ta ug kudiamad idokon sa mga intsik...

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Lorenzo · « **Reply #15 on:** June 17, 2011, 12:07:30 AM »

this usual doublespeak of an official statement from the u.s. embassy in manila is obvious. that's the language of diplomacy. say one thing officially, do something else as covertly as possible. one must never doubt that the u.s. won't allow china to dominate these busy sea lanes, which would make it so if china succeeds in claiming the whole spratlys archipelago (i.e., no resistance from all other claimants). the u.s. will help the philippines not because it loves our country but because it has to protect its own interests.

Correct! Every nation will always champion its national interests. One has to also understand that a percentage of the American people have a direct and indirect relation to the Philippines. There are over 4 million Filipinos in the United States, not to mention many more who are part Filipino.

My beef with the US Government is that it is quite partial to the Philippines. When Mubarak ruled Egypt, the United States gave Egypt economic and military aid that amounted to over $10 Billion. Washington gives Israel annually $5 Billion. Washington also supplies Taiwan with military and economic aid.

It would be nice if the United States gave the Philippines at least $1 Billion a year on military aid. Instead, she gives the Philippines pocket change of some $20-50 Million here and there. That's nothing compared to how much Washington gives other countries...billions of dollars a year.

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Lorenzo · « **Reply #16 on:** June 17, 2011, 12:16:25 AM »

mas lisod, raqz. no country in the world will ever give up a territory that easily. not only is territorial integrity at stake but national pride as well. an example is falklands, which is british and very far away from britain. in the 1980s argentina and britain went to war over this very small territory where there are more sheep than people.

ingnon nato nga naa koy residential lot. nagkural ang akong kasikbit nga silingan pero nilampas ug usa ka metro ang utlanan, niabhak sa akong yuta. hapaan nako ang akong katungod, abot sa korte. kana, kun di una ko mangluthang.

Correct. The Falkland War. What is also interesting is that tho the United States did not actively take part in this war, the United States' Intelligence provided the British Royal Navy and the Royal High Command with logistics information on the location of the Argentine Navy's surface fleet ships as well as the location of most of the Argentine Airforce.

America did not fight in the war, but provided the British with essential intelligence, which allowed it to pin point its forces and defeat the Argentine Military. Had America not provided the logistics, the war would have stalled longer.

From my reading, that war was a costly one for both the British and the Argentines. Britain lost a cruiser and dozens of ships in that war. Argentina suffered a governmental collapse.

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Lorenzo · « **Reply #17 on:** June 17, 2011, 12:27:22 AM »

sakto gyud na..pero maayo diplomasia ang una gamiton unya kay ug mag guera mura lang ta ug kudiamad idokon sa mga intsik...

I concur with you, Virgil. It would be fortuitous of the Philippines if we exhaust all diplomatic resources before even considering the galling prospects of military action.

A war with China would be catastrophic for the Philippines. The major trading partner of the Philippines is China, they could boycott all goods from the Philippines and cause an economic slowdown. A nation's ability to fight a war is limited to the financial resources it has to support and fund the war; so this is an issue that should be considered.

Additionally, let's talk about military terms. If the Philippines exhausted all its diplomatic resources with the People's Republic of China, and still no avail, and initiated a military response--

The Philippine Naval Fleet would be capable of defending the waters close to the Metro Manila EEZ, but that would leave the ports of major cities such as Cebu, Bacolod, Iloilo, Davao, Cagayan De Oro open to possible Chinese naval bombardment.

We do not have any anti-ship missile capability nor do we have a deterrant to China's fleet of submarines.

It would be apocalyptic if the full might of the Chinese Navy clashed with the few ships of the Philippine Surface Fleet. We're talking about the wipe-out of the Philippine Navy , if the United States does not intervene.

Without a fleet, any country could attack and threaten the security of the Union of the Philippine Republic.

To add to the dismal situation, the Philippine Air Force cannot go against China's jet fighters. We have few propeller aircraft, while the Chinese have thousands of jet fighters. They have fleets of long distance bombers. Are we really prepared to see Manila carpet bombed again? The last time it was carpet bombed was by the Imperial Japanese Air Force in 1942 - 1945....

The ruins of Manila. circa 1945.
The former "Paris" of Asia. The 'Pearl of the Orient Seas' leveled by Japanese bombers...

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Lorenzo · « **Reply #18 on:** June 17, 2011, 03:21:05 AM »

Going to war with China is unwise as for the Philippines right now. We must buy time. Restrengthen the age-old Strategic Alliance with the United States.

The security of Philippine National Interests in the Western Philippine Sea, formerly South China Sea, depends on America's Interests in the region.

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magbalantay · « **Reply #19 on:** June 17, 2011, 08:47:22 AM »

Syempre kon moapil sa lantugi delikado mapanilngan sa trilyones nga utang sa tsina
walay ikabayad ang mga amerkano ..

korek! daghan na gud ug utang ang US sa China. kung molaban ang US nato, unsaon na lang ang ilang uts? play safe jud ang US. utro pud na silang marama...manggagamit

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hubag bohol · « **Reply #20 on:** June 18, 2011, 04:12:18 PM »

He he, di na lang ko mo-comment diri. Tanan "correct", basin ako ra unya ang "wrong"...

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magbalantay · « **Reply #21 on:** June 18, 2011, 09:00:34 PM »

He he, di na lang ko mo-comment diri. Tanan "correct", basin ako ra unya ang "wrong"...

yaw na lang comment bai hubs kay basin mahipandol mi

sakit nga tinuod raba ka kung mo komentaryo

dang joke2x ug katawa pud

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hubag bohol · « **Reply #22 on:** June 19, 2011, 06:32:18 PM »

He he, lisod na--labi na kay naay intellectuwad nga galukso-lukso...

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Lorenzo · « **Reply #23 on:** June 20, 2011, 07:03:33 AM »

Syempre kon moapil sa lantugi delikado mapanilngan sa trilyones nga utang sa tsina
walay ikabayad ang mga amerkano ..

You have a significant point, Statesville. The United States relies on Chinese borrowed funds. Would America risk its financial meltdown to help a signed ally? Only time will tell...

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Lorenzo · « **Reply #24 on:** June 20, 2011, 07:08:07 AM »

this usual doublespeak of an official statement from the u.s. embassy in manila is obvious. that's the language of diplomacy. say one thing officially, do something else as covertly as possible. one must never doubt that the u.s. won't allow china to dominate these busy sea lanes, which would make it so if china succeeds in claiming the whole spratlys archipelago (i.e., no resistance from all other claimants). the u.s. will help the philippines not because it loves our country but because it has to protect its own interests.

If the United States were to help the Philippines in case the Philippines and China had a border conflict, the United States would do so indirectly. She would provide military resources and possibly financial aid, but I doubt the United States will risk open war with China. The consequences of that would be to great to pay for America. Afterall, America initiates action for its national interests.

At this moment in time, the United States is not in the state (financially and militarily speaking) to engage an Asian Superpower.

America can fight small nations such as Iraq and small terrorist groups such as Taliban, but I do not think America has the resources right now to fight nor is it prepared to engage China. China has the world's largest organized army and the world's 2nd largest air force. China is also a naval power , not to mention a nuclear power.

It would be foolish for America to engage China directly. Indirectly, possibly, probably.

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Raquelproud boholana · « **Reply #25 on:** June 21, 2011, 12:11:19 AM »

My beef with the US Government is that it is quite partial to the Philippines. When Mubarak ruled Egypt, the United States gave Egypt economic and military aid that amounted to over $10 Billion. Washington gives Israel annually $5 Billion. Washington also supplies Taiwan with military and economic aid.

It would be nice if the United States gave the Philippines at least $1 Billion a year on military aid. Instead, she gives the Philippines pocket change of some $20-50 Million here and there. That's nothing compared to how much Washington gives other countries...billions of dollars a year.

$1 Billion dollar a year ihatag sa Pilipinas? Ana ba jud kadato ning america nga manghatag nalang unya igo ra kurakoton inig abot didto. Gikurakot man gani tong hinabang ra unsa pa kaha ni. In reality daghan school diri sa U.S nga wa nay funding,daghan kalsada lubak lubak na,daghan way trabaho unya manghatag ra ang U.S ingon ani kadako.Please ayaw i sugar coat ni nga ani jud ka dato ang U.S kay sa tinuod lang daghan problema diri dapat sulbaron financially. Dapat lang mohatag ang U.S sa Egypt ug Israell kay naa man silay makuha didto nga oil bale konswelo nalang ni para nila pero Pilipinas ambot lang.
Ok ra mohatag ang U.S ug 1 billion kara tuig sa pilipinas basta diha sa imong sweldo puhon kuhaan heheheh. Pero ug gikan sa taxes sa mga hardworking people No way Jose.

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islander · « **Reply #26 on:** June 21, 2011, 12:35:52 AM »

He he, di na lang ko mo-comment diri. Tanan "correct", basin ako ra unya ang "wrong"...

wrong! correct baya ka.

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Lorenzo · « **Reply #27 on:** June 21, 2011, 01:49:58 AM »

$1 Billion dollar a year ihatag sa Pilipinas? Ana ba jud kadato ning america nga manghatag nalang unya igo ra kurakoton inig abot didto. Gikurakot man gani tong hinabang ra unsa pa kaha ni. In reality daghan school diri sa U.S nga wa nay funding,daghan kalsada lubak lubak na,daghan way trabaho unya manghatag ra ang U.S ingon ani kadako.Please ayaw i sugar coat ni nga ani jud ka dato ang U.S kay sa tinuod lang daghan problema diri dapat sulbaron financially. Dapat lang mohatag ang U.S sa Egypt ug Israell kay naa man silay makuha didto nga oil bale konswelo nalang ni para nila pero Pilipinas ambot lang.
Ok ra mohatag ang U.S ug 1 billion kara tuig sa pilipinas basta diha sa imong sweldo puhon kuhaan heheheh. Pero ug gikan sa taxes sa mga hardworking people No way Jose.

It would be nice lang if it was possible, Raquel.

Yes, we know of the current economic situation the United States is in, that is why it is improbable that the United States would give increased military aid to the Philippines. That is why I said I wish the United States would give. If it was possible and if it was probable, it would have been nice.

Because right now, the Philippines has a very thin and weak military.

Additionally, when it comes to military measures, the United States is never too kuripot on that aspect. The United States' recent involvement in Libya is going to be cyclical. It has already predicted to spend $1 billion on military needs for the Libyan Rebels.

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Lorenzo · « **Reply #28 on:** June 21, 2011, 01:58:30 AM »

We have spent close to 2 Trillion US Dollars on the war in Iraq. Not to mention how much more we are going to spend in Afghanistan.

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chicogon · « **Reply #29 on:** June 21, 2011, 08:46:03 AM »

Akong ig-agaw nga si Dr. Brydz nipalit ug pintal sa BQ. Dihay suklionon nga pila to ka cents, apan wala namay cents karon sa atong currency maong gitagaan/gesuklian na lang sa tindera ug 5 ka matam-is (candy). Baw unsay nasud sa utak sa akong ig-agaw, pagka-hapon nibalik sa BQ kay mopalit ug pan, unya ang iyang gibayad sa pan kay matam-is pod. Wa mosugot ang tindera kay matam-is kuno to. Nilalis akong ig-agaw, "Mao nay inyong gisukli nako ganina,"

Bwahaha!!!

Wa gehapon mosugot ang tindera. Giingnan sa akong ig-agaw, tawga tag-iya (Fred Ong). Pagkakita ni Fred Ong ni Dr. Brydz (ga hukas-hukas kay morag aditz-aditz) ug human esplikahe sa issue. nisugot na lang si Fred Ong aron di na mosamot kagubot tungod lang sa dolce. Bwahahaha!!!

Haaaay... mao ra nay ihatag sa America sa Pilipinas... kondili sinsilyo, dolce ra tawon... pamahid sa gagmay'ng-samad just to maintain their presence in the region. Pero kung klarohon jud, morag wa na man tingale "real" interest ang Uda Estit sa atong nasud sukad nawala na ang ilang mga bases deri. But I could be wrong. Pila ra goy haka-haka sa usa ka non-expert observer

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Lorenzo · « **Reply #30 on:** June 21, 2011, 01:46:33 PM »

Akong ig-agaw nga si Dr. Brydz nipalit ug pintal sa BQ. Dihay suklionon nga pila to ka cents, apan wala namay cents karon sa atong currency maong gitagaan/gesuklian na lang sa tindera ug 5 ka matam-is (candy). Baw unsay nasud sa utak sa akong ig-agaw, pagka-hapon nibalik sa BQ kay mopalit ug pan, unya ang iyang gibayad sa pan kay matam-is pod. Wa mosugot ang tindera kay matam-is kuno to. Nilalis akong ig-agaw, "Mao nay inyong gisukli nako ganina,"

Bwahaha!!!

Wa gehapon mosugot ang tindera. Giingnan sa akong ig-agaw, tawga tag-iya (Fred Ong). Pagkakita ni Fred Ong ni Dr. Brydz (ga hukas-hukas kay morag aditz-aditz) ug human esplikahe sa issue. nisugot na lang si Fred Ong aron di na mosamot kagubot tungod lang sa dolce. Bwahahaha!!!

Haaaay... mao ra nay ihatag sa America sa Pilipinas... kondili sinsilyo, dolce ra tawon... pamahid sa gagmay'ng-samad just to maintain their presence in the region. Pero kung klarohon jud, morag wa na man tingale "real" interest ang Uda Estit sa atong nasud sukad nawala na ang ilang mga bases deri. But I could be wrong. Pila ra goy haka-haka sa usa ka non-expert observer

Correct ka kaayo, Fr. Roel. Ang Pilipinas tagaan lang ang sukli sa America. Mo hatag ang America billions to other countries , pero when it comes to Pilipinas, gamay ra kaajo. Pilipinas' worth to American national strategic interest is apparently cheap compared to Israel, Egypt, S. Korea, Japan, Taiwan, Turkey, Iraq, Afghanistan. etc.

Luoy pood Pilipinas. Mo accept na lang ang sukli gi hatag para nija....

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Lorenzo · « **Reply #31 on:** June 21, 2011, 01:48:35 PM »

1 American F-22 Raptor is worth 250 million US Dollars.

America gives Pilipinas an equilvalent to 1/10th the cost of 1 F-22 Raptor every year for military aid.

But America gives Israel , a nation that has no natural resources that can contribute AMERICA, over $ 5 Billion every year.

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islander · « **Reply #32 on:** June 21, 2011, 10:32:02 PM »

from another non-expert observer:

1. the jewish lobby and its contribution to election campaigns in the u.s. are not to be trifled with. thus, the u.s.'s support for israel is understandable in the realm of geopolitics. even bibi netanyahu had lately dared to preempt barack obama on his policies, right in the u.s. president's home turf!

2. the cold war, as exemplified by the u.s.-u.s.s.r. ideological rivalry, is a thing of the past. neither country need to court other countries now just to shut each other's influence out. (an aside: the late former president marcos, like the other dictators then), was famous for playing the u.s.s.r. and the u.s. against each other, "threatening" the u.s. with u.s.s.r. concessions when he wanted to get his way with the u.s.)

3. we have an existing mutual defense treaty with the u.s. consider this diplomatese of u.s. ambassador to the philippines harry thomas jr:

â€œWe are strategic partners. We will continue to consult each other closely on the South China Sea, Spratly islands and other issues,â€ the envoy said. (http://newsinfo.inquirer.net/16368/us-ambassador-thomas-reaffirms-philippine-us-ties)

4. growing up in a culture that gave us the illusion (no thanks to the u.s.) that we can't stand by ourselves without big brother u.s. had also given us this self-pitying attitude. maybe we should outgrow this soon? a neighborhood bully clenches his fists and we at once look around for a bigger bully to punch him for us?

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Lorenzo · « **Reply #33 on:** June 21, 2011, 10:44:02 PM »

from another non-expert observer:

1. the jewish lobby and its contribution to election campaigns in the u.s. are not to be trifled with. thus, the u.s.'s support for israel is understandable in the realm of geopolitics. even bibi netanyahu had lately dared to preempt barack obama on his policies, right in the u.s. president's home turf!

2. the cold war, as exemplified by the u.s.-u.s.s.r. ideological rivalry, is a thing of the past. neither country need to court other countries now just to shut each other's influence out. (an aside: the late former president marcos, like the other dictators then), was famous for playing the u.s.s.r. and the u.s. against each other, "threatening" the u.s. with u.s.s.r. concessions when he wanted to get his way with the u.s.)

3. we have an existing mutual defense treaty with the u.s. consider this diplomatese of u.s. ambassador to the philippines harry thomas jr:

“We are strategic partners. We will continue to consult each other closely on the South China Sea, Spratly islands and other issues,” the envoy said. (http://newsinfo.inquirer.net/16368/us-ambassador-thomas-reaffirms-philippine-us-ties)

4. growing up in a culture that gave us the illusion (no thanks to the u.s.) that we can't stand by ourselves without big brother u.s. had also given us this self-pitying attitude. maybe we should outgrow this soon? a neighborhood bully clenches his fists and we at once look around for a bigger bully to punch him for us?

Strong points, valid points. Your 4th point was quite significant.

The Philippines has the potential to be a significant player in South East Asia , as well as in Asia-Pacific. First and foremost, the national prerogative should not mitigate the importance of national territorial defense as it has done for the recent past.

The quagmire we are in, in regards to military ill-preparedness, is due to governmental incompetence in forwarding funds for military defense , not to mention the corruption in the military, which one can argue, has hindered the modernization of the Armed Forces of the Philippines.

Pres. Aquino has implemented some notable policies, most notably his multi-billion peso military procurement packages, which is aimed to re-arm the Philippines with necessary military equipment and craft to strengthen Manila's claim in the Spratlys.

The Philippines is a shrimp among whales: China and the United States.

The Philippines could expand her horizon by enacting friendlier policies with other regional powers such as Indonesia, Vietnam. These two countries have a considerable military force and have some interests in the Spratlys, not to mention are also threatened by a rising China. It would be to the interest of Manila, Jakarta and Hanoi to work with each other , perhaps a combined cooperation between their combined militaries can effectively counter the looming Chinese power.

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Lorenzo · « **Reply #34 on:** June 21, 2011, 10:46:17 PM »

from another non-expert observer:

1. the jewish lobby and its contribution to election campaigns in the u.s. are not to be trifled with. thus, the u.s.'s support for israel is understandable in the realm of geopolitics. even bibi netanyahu had lately dared to preempt barack obama on his policies, right in the u.s. president's home turf!

Because the Jews of America rule and control US Media and US Politics.

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chicogon · « **Reply #35 on:** June 22, 2011, 08:01:40 AM »

4. growing up in a culture that gave us the illusion (no thanks to the u.s.) that we can't stand by ourselves without big brother u.s. had also given us this self-pitying attitude. maybe we should outgrow this soon? a neighborhood bully clenches his fists and we at once look around for a bigger bully to punch him for us?

Haskang tinuora jud na nga kinaiya nato. Kung naay moparegla dayon dagan sa barkada kay mangayog tabang aron makasukol o manimawos ba nuon hahaha. Great observation Ms Isle (consultant siguro ni ay sa Spratly Island Issues

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