MikeLigalig.com

Published by the Bohol Chronicle

A supposedly mega project of former governor, now 2nd District Congressman
Erico Aumentado is mired in controversy following allegations of blatant procedural lapses and even serious constitutional issues.

A public consultation called last Thursday practically unearthed a veritable
trove of revelations straight from those supposed beneficiaries of the project
and officials who had a hand in the dubious manner in which the project was laid
out.

The output of the consultation will be presented during a meeting on
Wednesday with visiting Korean officials.

The consultation was conducted by a joint committee on Agriculture,
Natural Resources and Environmental Protection, Good Government, Justice and
Human Rights headed by Board Members Abeleon Damalerio and Vencenzo Arcamo
respectively together with Cezar Lopez., vice chair of the Finance, Budget and
Appropriations committee Dubbed as the "Bioethanol Research Center Project", a joint venture between

Biolsystems Co. Ltd. or "Biol" of the Republic of Korea and the Province of
Bohol, is focused on seaweed aquaculture, ethanol production and post-harvest.

Mounting public clamor from affected seaweed growers for the new provincial
leaders to conduct a probe on the marine aquaculture project which was kept
under wraps during the previous administration triggered the ongoing review by
the Sangguniang Panlalawigan (SP).
         

According to the assailed MOU, the Province of Bohol will set aside for the
exclusive operation of the Korean company 3 has. as test area for aquaculture,
500 has. for seedling plantation, 25,000 up to 100,000 has. for the aquaculture
site proper. Another 60 has. will be guaranteed by the province for an ethanol
production factory and residential area for workers.

The project will not only be in the waters of Bohol but also a possible tie-up with neighboring provinces that would cover one million hectares.

The term contract is for a period of 50 years with a planned extension of 25
years.

The MOU further stated that security around the aquaculture and factory areas
will be provided by the PNP and the AFP.

Seaweed farmers feared the day when they would turn into mere laborers of these
giant foreign corporations instead of producers of seaweeds.

Seaweed farmers get P25T gross from seaweeds in a 2,500 sq. meter area five
times a year. Sales from abalone at P470/kilo, "tihi-tihi", sea cucumber at
P2,000/kilo and rare shells adds up to a tidy sum for the seaweed farmers.

Representatives from the Seaweed Investors Association of the Philippines (SIAP)
condemned the brazenness of these foreign corporations for threatening the
livelihood of the Filipino fisherfolks.

They voiced their suspicion that this MOU is now peddled in roadshows abroad to
entice investors for the project.

The marine aquaculture project, according to Atty. Titus Vistal of the
Provincial Planning and Development Office (PPDO) was never formally discussed
in the Provincial Development Council (PDC) but was taken up only as an
exploratory project.

Questions were also raised on the need for the Sangguniang Panglalawigan (SP) to
have been consulted on such an ambitious project even if the joint venture
project was in the nature of an Memorandum of Understanding (MOU).

During the meeting, seaweed growers associations, non-government organizations
(NGO's), People's organizations (PO's) engaged in marine protection were one in
denouncing not only the past administration but the Korean government for
deliberately ignoring a basic requirement for such a big project - public
consultation with the stakeholders.

Letters sent to the Korean government by the seaweed growers were ignored.

Even the municipality of Talibon which granted, upon the request of Aumentado,
50 has. in the islands of Sag and Bansan islands never informed the seaweed
growers about the areas reserved for the bioethanol project.

But stakeholders later found out that instead of Biol Co., the signatory of the
MOU, a firm by the name of Algahol, set up operations in Talibon.

Another firm, Metallic Ore Harvester Corporation identified as a Taiwanese
company is also into seaweeds farming in a 1200 has area also in Nocnocan isled
in Talibon.

Heavily armed security guards has been driving out local fishermen from their
farm area.

Leandres Artiaga, Fisheries Technician of the Provincial Agriculture Office (PAO), who was privy to the entry of Algahol in Talibon, told the Chronicle that he was pressured by a certain Ho Jea Lee, a Korean investor to sign the incorporation papers as an investor and a member of the board of directors for 50 shares valued at P1,861.

He further said that June Blanco, a former executive assistant of the Governor
also signed as an incorporator of Algahol.

Artiaga added that he submitted to the Provincial Legal Office an affidavit
withdrawing as member of the board of Algahol.

Meanwhile, June Blanco confirmed to the Chronicle that she signed as an
incorporator and secretary of Algahol to complete a corporation requirement.
Atty. Cathy Jamila of the Provincial Legal Office raised a constitutional issue
on a corporation exploiting our natural resources.

Initial findings showed that Algahol is a foreign corporation engaged in the
exploitation of our fisheries and aquatic resources which are reserved
exclusively for Filipinos.

A review of the registration papers of Algahol is now underway.

Atty. Handel Lagunay, former Provincial Legal Officer told the Chronicle that
Algohol is a foreign corporation incorporated domestically in the Philippines.

He also said that Algohol is not into actual seaweed farming but engaged in
research and development of marine aquaculture, procurement and marketing of
seaweed produce of the local seaweed farmers.

The 13 has. reported to be found planted with seaweeds was a pilot area to test
if certain varieties would thrive in the area, explained Lagunay.

The MOU between Biolsystems Co., Ltd. of the Republic of Korea and the Province
of Bohol were signed by 28 of the 30 Mayors of the coastal municipalities in
Bohol last July 16, 2009.

Inputs gathered from the public consultation will be collated and presented to
the Korean party on Wednesday, at the Bohol Tropics Hotel.

wtf....why are these few old dying creatures making decisions on their own without proper channels or even, in fact clearly they are acting out for their own interest gain only.. the mistake of this civilization is that we worship "form" too much, and the underlying interrelatedness of such bullsh*t apolonian aspect... and now we cannot even recognize our left hand from our right.

i choose to reserve my opinion here.  news tilt and info treatment matter in this kind of news item.  with vistal, lagunay, and aumentado himself being lawyers, i doubt if carelessness in the paperwork taints the arrangement.  well, one never knows.  lawyers can go either way...

but tsolox, what in the name of heaven and its opposite down below is "apolonian aspect" doing here?

  ← labaw pod kong wa kasabot... Catalonian pa nuon na makasabot unta ko coz I was there a week or so ago hehehe 

i hope the catalonian sun still shone on you this time of year as the tuscan sun in viva italia across españa does, though i hope too that neither did the sun shine so fiercely that you may have needed roman shades and venetian blinds while the sicilian guns were silenced.

The hot Catalonian sun and the unpleasant easterly wind of the Mediterranean has caused a little havoc along the way near Andorra. Fortunately, the heavens managed to keep the pace of our journey as timely and quiet as the silencer of the Siciliana (bwahahaha  samot kog kalibog  )

It seems that Bohol has been made to commit more than its feasible share in green energy production. I remember that Bohol has also committed itself to hundreds of hectares in jatropha cultivation. Whatever happened to this one? I believe that if we grab every dollar-denominated offer being dangled before us, Bohol will no longer have arable land for grain production.

With the recent typhoon leveling most of northern Luzon's grain, will we turn again overseas for our basic rice needs? Last year, our much vaunted excess in rice self-sufficiency has already slipped below 80%.

Given the vast area and the number of people involved in this bioethanol project, why such secretive and hasty manner to clinch this project? Why so late a call for public consultation? Not only are we making a high-stakes gamble on our people's livelihood, we are also sending wrong signals to foreign investors about our business policy.

Quote from: chicogon on October 25, 2010, 11:05:39 AM
The hot Catalonian sun and the unpleasant easterly wind of the Mediterranean has caused a little havoc along the way near Andorra. Fortunately, the heavens managed to keep the pace of our journey as timely and quiet as the silencer of the Siciliana (bwahahaha  samot kog kalibog  )

mora na sad bitaw ug tableyang gibatirol ning akong utok... pero masabtan nga enyoy ka sa biyahe as you partake of the sights and sounds of the old world while on a marian pilgrimage. 

Quote from: benelynne on October 25, 2010, 11:40:48 AM
It seems that Bohol has been made to commit more than its feasible share in green energy production. I remember that Bohol has also committed itself to hundreds of hectares in jatropha cultivation. Whatever happened to this one? I believe that if we grab every dollar-denominated offer being dangled before us, Bohol will no longer have arable land for grain production.

With the recent typhoon leveling most of northern Luzon's grain, will we turn again overseas for our basic rice needs? Last year, our much vaunted excess in rice self-sufficiency has already slipped below 80%.

Given the vast area and the number of people involved in this bioethanol project, why such secretive and hasty manner to clinch this project? Why so late a call for public consultation? Not only are we making a high-stakes gamble on our people's livelihood, we are also sending wrong signals to foreign investors about our business policy.

in which case this story's resolution must truly be worth the wait.  how this thing pans out could be one for the books, knowing as we perhaps may that this involves a very talented and slippery politician who had managed all these decades to teeter between controversies and suspicions but who still has to see defeat at the polls. 
 

Quote from: islander on October 25, 2010, 12:16:06 PM
mora na sad bitaw ug tableyang gibatirol ning akong utok... 

Hala! Mora ra bag kisom na ang bahal ang akong pagbati diin nabuak ang itlog sa akong mga pangindahay. Dali, pwede na ta magkinutil!

sometimes i can say, people are really bias when it comes to filing complaints or exposing anomalies. whoever sits at the top will always have a hand in all this unearthing activities. mind you if the other group had won, i am sure enought they will also unearthed long time buried controversies or exposed hidden anomalies. that's the reason why they don't want to lose in their grip of power to keep buried ones down and hidden ones secret.

Hello everyone,

    I am an American(kano)and Philippine resident.  I have always been an artist and craftsman; an independently self employed person and an environmentalist. 
    I do not favor large corporation and in fact I see the economic entity of "corporation" as a crime itself. Because "profit motive" is too strong and is the prime directive over all other factors of life.
   A corporation, as a "legal entity" has the same rights as "a person", therefore, "a machine" or u could say a "non human being", now has the same rights as a person.
  "The machine" has no heart or no soul,  no consciousness, ..it is programed to care about only one thing.. making money. 
In other words I am a firm believer in small business. Therefore I want to take sides with the independent small farming community on Bohol.  However, I am not writing to start a debate about corporations...
    Rather, I would  like to know... what is wrong with large scale seaweed farming? What are the downsides and upsides to this industry? 
    Large agricultural corporations often bring dangerous chemicals to increase profits. Will this happen on Bohol?  Corporations have scientists and of course they have departments that care for the people in that corporation...  but, again,  the problem is that over and above all departments is the prime directive-(profit), and therefore all decisions are always made based of this.
    Of course  it will change the face of Bohol. But all the people of Bohol have to understand the environmental issues.  Then the people can organize themselves to make sure Bohol stays as clean and environmentally sustainable for the next century and beyond. 
    Writing letters to Korea will do nothing...  It is up to the people of Bohol to care for Bohol. I would like to hear a comment from the president of the Philippines.
   
    Again, what is wrong with large scale seaweed farming? What are the downsides and upsides to this industry?   

  Best Regards, "BC"

Quote from: bamboocharlie on October 31, 2010, 05:41:29 AM
Hello everyone,

   I am an American(kano)and Philippine resident.  I have always been an artist and craftsman; an independently self employed person and an environmentalist.  

  I do not favor large corporation and in fact I see the economic entity of "corporation" as a crime itself. Because "profit motive" is too strong and is the prime directive over all other factors of life.

  A corporation, as a "legal entity" has the same rights as "a person", therefore, "a machine" or u could say a "non human being", now has the same rights as a person.   "The machine" has no heart or no soul,  no consciousness, ..it is programed to care about only one thing.. making money.  

In other words I am a firm believer in small business. Therefore I want to take sides with the independent small farming community on Bohol.  However, I am not writing to start a debate about corporations...    Rather, I would  like to know... what is wrong with large scale seaweed farming? What are the downsides and upsides to this industry?  

   Large agricultural corporations often bring dangerous chemicals to increase profits. Will this happen on Bohol?  Corporations have scientists and of course they have departments that care for the people in that corporation...  but, again,  the problem is that over and above all departments is the prime directive-(profit), and therefore all decisions are always made based of this.

   Of course  it will change the face of Bohol. But all the people of Bohol have to understand the environmental issues.  Then the people can organize themselves to make sure Bohol stays as clean and environmentally sustainable for the next century and beyond.

   Writing letters to Korea will do nothing...  It is up to the people of Bohol to care for Bohol. I would like to hear a comment from the president of the Philippines.
   
   Again, what is wrong with large scale seaweed farming? What are the downsides and upsides to this industry?  

 Best Regards, "BC"

welcome to tb, bc.  how nice of you to come this way.

you know what you speak of, or so i believe.  as an american you must be aware that a bigger part of american hegemony (pax americana, sort of  ) is the influence wrought by american multinational corporations.  for every foreign affairs policy issued by the state department, i can't help but imagine what lies beneath the veneer of the usual american national security yarn.  sadly, money talks, anywhere.  

kuwait is an example.  after operation desert storm, that small mideast country may as well be now american, what with american multinational corporations privileged with various footholds in almost all industrial sectors, oil foremost of them all.  ooops, sorry i got carried away.  this isn't supposed to be some debate about corporations...

like you, i favor small businesses too.  i learned long ago though that corporations have better protection.  in case of failure, or when push comes to shove, at least one's personal properties cannot be repossessed by authorities.  and corporations are less susceptible to the whims of local political leaders who may be in the position to issue or revoke local business licenses, which small businesses are subject to.  

there used to be hundreds of small seaweed farmers organized in bohol, pre-1986 edsa revolt.  (i had an indirect hand in those, framing their monthly status reports, which was part of my job then, though i was not on field and was dependent only on the primary reports submitted by those who were on field.  bureaucracy, you know.)  those seaweed farmers must have gone the way of the marcoses because i haven't heard of their existence to date.  but then again this was long ago.  their story is worth looking into though.  it may answer some of your questions.

good luck.    

Quote from: bamboocharlie on October 31, 2010, 05:41:29 AM
Hello everyone,

    I am an American(kano)and Philippine resident.  I have always been an artist and craftsman; an independently self employed person and an environmentalist. 
    I do not favor large corporation and in fact I see the economic entity of "corporation" as a crime itself. Because "profit motive" is too strong and is the prime directive over all other factors of life.
   A corporation, as a "legal entity" has the same rights as "a person", therefore, "a machine" or u could say a "non human being", now has the same rights as a person.
  "The machine" has no heart or no soul,  no consciousness, ..it is programed to care about only one thing.. making money. 
In other words I am a firm believer in small business. Therefore I want to take sides with the independent small farming community on Bohol.  However, I am not writing to start a debate about corporations...
    Rather, I would  like to know... what is wrong with large scale seaweed farming? What are the downsides and upsides to this industry? 
    Large agricultural corporations often bring dangerous chemicals to increase profits. Will this happen on Bohol?  Corporations have scientists and of course they have departments that care for the people in that corporation...  but, again,  the problem is that over and above all departments is the prime directive-(profit), and therefore all decisions are always made based of this.
    Of course  it will change the face of Bohol. But all the people of Bohol have to understand the environmental issues.  Then the people can organize themselves to make sure Bohol stays as clean and environmentally sustainable for the next century and beyond. 
    Writing letters to Korea will do nothing...  It is up to the people of Bohol to care for Bohol. I would like to hear a comment from the president of the Philippines.
   
    Again, what is wrong with large scale seaweed farming? What are the downsides and upsides to this industry?   

  Best Regards, "BC"

Charlie,

Thanks for your environmentally-concerned post. I would like to thank you for your genuine concern for Bohol's environmental fauna and ecological diversity, and the preservation of said ecology. I agree with you that there should be some kind of control on these large scale companies, especially when it concerns the natural resources of Bohol. I would be exceedingly concerned if they were cutting down the trees in Bohol or quarrying the chocolate hills, however, in this case the said Korean companies (as well as Taiwanese companies) are interested in the benthic algae, which is seaweed.

The beauty of seaweed culturing and acquisition is the fact that they consume energy via photosynthetic processes and feed of nutrients in the sea (sewage) as well as consume CO2. Farming and acquisition of seaweed is quite environmental, in the sense, in that the seaweed consumes the sewage produced by the industrial plant, as well as consumes the CO2 produced.

I did research in my undergraduate years at Allegheny College (northwestern Pennsylvania) on molecular limnology and the area of our study was on the eutrophication of specific kettle lakes and the advantitious growth of colonizing species of zebra mussels as well as benthic algae. It is evident that the growth of benthic algae has posed a risk to the health of lake environmente as it starves the local fauna , thus outcompetes the local population, a form of perfidious allelopathy. Multiple energy companies have now come to study the energy acquisition of benthic algae, specifically via Soxhlet extraction (my research advisor worked closely with the Great Lakes Limnological Society in this regard, to which I had the honor in researching with), which extracts energy in the form of petroleum ether, a form of petroleum. I being a Limnology Lab TA at the time, worked closely with the Pennsylvania Fish and Game Association in this regard, and can tell you that the United States, which is looking ever to reduce its dependence on foreign energy supply, has placed great concern in this 'future energy cultivation'.

The reason why the Koreans and the Taiwanese are so advantageous to form a deal with Bohol, in this regard , is because they lack the aquatic fauna and the diversification that Bohol has, namely, the ability to grow and cultivate this renewable resource, Seaweed, which can produce much needed natural resources.

In my honest opinion, this renewable resource, to which Bohol is not limited to, can be a means for the Philippines to sever its dependence on foreign energy supply. Let alone, be a source of capital for the Archipelagic Republic.


Best,
A. Lorenzo Lucino

Quote from: U.S. of America on October 24, 2010, 09:41:26 PM
Published by the Bohol Chronicle

A supposedly mega project of former governor, now 2nd District Congressman
Erico Aumentado is mired in controversy following allegations of blatant procedural lapses and even serious constitutional issues.

A public consultation called last Thursday practically unearthed a veritable
trove of revelations straight from those supposed beneficiaries of the project
and officials who had a hand in the dubious manner in which the project was laid
out.

The output of the consultation will be presented during a meeting on
Wednesday with visiting Korean officials.

The consultation was conducted by a joint committee on Agriculture,
Natural Resources and Environmental Protection, Good Government, Justice and
Human Rights headed by Board Members Abeleon Damalerio and Vencenzo Arcamo
respectively together with Cezar Lopez., vice chair of the Finance, Budget and
Appropriations committee Dubbed as the "Bioethanol Research Center Project", a joint venture between

Biolsystems Co. Ltd. or "Biol" of the Republic of Korea and the Province of
Bohol, is focused on seaweed aquaculture, ethanol production and post-harvest.

Mounting public clamor from affected seaweed growers for the new provincial
leaders to conduct a probe on the marine aquaculture project which was kept
under wraps during the previous administration triggered the ongoing review by
the Sangguniang Panlalawigan (SP).
         

According to the assailed MOU, the Province of Bohol will set aside for the
exclusive operation of the Korean company 3 has. as test area for aquaculture,
500 has. for seedling plantation, 25,000 up to 100,000 has. for the aquaculture
site proper. Another 60 has. will be guaranteed by the province for an ethanol
production factory and residential area for workers.

The project will not only be in the waters of Bohol but also a possible tie-up with neighboring provinces that would cover one million hectares.

The term contract is for a period of 50 years with a planned extension of 25
years.

The MOU further stated that security around the aquaculture and factory areas
will be provided by the PNP and the AFP.

Seaweed farmers feared the day when they would turn into mere laborers of these
giant foreign corporations instead of producers of seaweeds.

Seaweed farmers get P25T gross from seaweeds in a 2,500 sq. meter area five
times a year. Sales from abalone at P470/kilo, "tihi-tihi", sea cucumber at
P2,000/kilo and rare shells adds up to a tidy sum for the seaweed farmers.

Representatives from the Seaweed Investors Association of the Philippines (SIAP)
condemned the brazenness of these foreign corporations for threatening the
livelihood of the Filipino fisherfolks.

They voiced their suspicion that this MOU is now peddled in roadshows abroad to
entice investors for the project.

The marine aquaculture project, according to Atty. Titus Vistal of the
Provincial Planning and Development Office (PPDO) was never formally discussed
in the Provincial Development Council (PDC) but was taken up only as an
exploratory project.

Questions were also raised on the need for the Sangguniang Panglalawigan (SP) to
have been consulted on such an ambitious project even if the joint venture
project was in the nature of an Memorandum of Understanding (MOU).

During the meeting, seaweed growers associations, non-government organizations
(NGO's), People's organizations (PO's) engaged in marine protection were one in
denouncing not only the past administration but the Korean government for
deliberately ignoring a basic requirement for such a big project - public
consultation with the stakeholders.

Letters sent to the Korean government by the seaweed growers were ignored.

Even the municipality of Talibon which granted, upon the request of Aumentado,
50 has. in the islands of Sag and Bansan islands never informed the seaweed
growers about the areas reserved for the bioethanol project.

But stakeholders later found out that instead of Biol Co., the signatory of the
MOU, a firm by the name of Algahol, set up operations in Talibon.

Another firm, Metallic Ore Harvester Corporation identified as a Taiwanese
company is also into seaweeds farming in a 1200 has area also in Nocnocan isled
in Talibon.

Heavily armed security guards has been driving out local fishermen from their
farm area.

Leandres Artiaga, Fisheries Technician of the Provincial Agriculture Office (PAO), who was privy to the entry of Algahol in Talibon, told the Chronicle that he was pressured by a certain Ho Jea Lee, a Korean investor to sign the incorporation papers as an investor and a member of the board of directors for 50 shares valued at P1,861.

He further said that June Blanco, a former executive assistant of the Governor
also signed as an incorporator of Algahol.

Artiaga added that he submitted to the Provincial Legal Office an affidavit
withdrawing as member of the board of Algahol.

Meanwhile, June Blanco confirmed to the Chronicle that she signed as an
incorporator and secretary of Algahol to complete a corporation requirement.
Atty. Cathy Jamila of the Provincial Legal Office raised a constitutional issue
on a corporation exploiting our natural resources.

Initial findings showed that Algahol is a foreign corporation engaged in the
exploitation of our fisheries and aquatic resources which are reserved
exclusively for Filipinos.

A review of the registration papers of Algahol is now underway.

Atty. Handel Lagunay, former Provincial Legal Officer told the Chronicle that
Algohol is a foreign corporation incorporated domestically in the Philippines.

He also said that Algohol is not into actual seaweed farming but engaged in
research and development of marine aquaculture, procurement and marketing of
seaweed produce of the local seaweed farmers.

The 13 has. reported to be found planted with seaweeds was a pilot area to test
if certain varieties would thrive in the area, explained Lagunay.

The MOU between Biolsystems Co., Ltd. of the Republic of Korea and the Province
of Bohol were signed by 28 of the 30 Mayors of the coastal municipalities in
Bohol last July 16, 2009.

Inputs gathered from the public consultation will be collated and presented to
the Korean party on Wednesday, at the Bohol Tropics Hotel.

On the contrary,

Considering the fact that the the ecology at hand is aquatic and not a closed-off fresh water habitat (such as a lake), the continuous turnover of oxygen ensures the continuation of aquatic fauna, and thus minimizes the threat of fisheries ambivalence.

Considering seaweed is a benthic algae, it provides the basis for a plethora of species diversification, since it provides as a rich food supply for herbivory fishes, which in result provides the foundation for the growth of pisciverous fishes, and thus ensures the aquatic balance.

Seaweed growth is self sustaining, and in actuality, would not only reduce CO2 emissions (via photosynthetic processes), but would also indirectly lead to increased fish population, which would be fortuitous for the fisheries in the province.

The complaint on fisheries threat is unfounded and unsubstantiated. Research before you post.


Regards,
A. Lorenzo Lucino,

Quote from: bamboocharlie on October 31, 2010, 05:41:29 AM
Hello everyone,

    Again, what is wrong with large scale seaweed farming? What are the downsides and upsides to this industry?   

There really is no downside to seaweed farming, as it is a self-serving industry. It literally consumes the sewage and chemical run-off, considering that seaweed is a benthic algae, and thus, a detritus, which consumes debris and waste (it consumes CO2, it produces energy via photosynthesis)

Seaweed provides the foundation for species diversification, as it is essential for the foundation of a stable aquatic fauna and fisheries. This is basic aquatic ecology taught in collegiate curriculum.

The propelling of such a wide-scale industry could not only produce almost unlimited petroleum ether, would provide jobs for engineers and skilled laborers, as well as can provide for further research on algacultural initiatives.

This is the basis of many research projects in American Colleges focusing on aquatic environmental science.

If you have any further questions, please, Charlie, do ask.


Best,
Lorenzo

Quote from: Lorenzo on October 31, 2010, 02:09:38 PM
On the contrary,

Considering the fact that the the ecology at hand is aquatic and not a closed-off fresh water habitat (such as a lake), the continuous turnover of oxygen ensures the continuation of aquatic fauna, and thus minimizes the threat of fisheries ambivalence.

Considering seaweed is a benthic algae, it provides the basis for a plethora of species diversification, since it provides as a rich food supply for herbivory fishes, which in result provides the foundation for the growth of pisciverous fishes, and thus ensures the aquatic balance.

Seaweed growth is self sustaining, and in actuality, would not only reduce CO2 emissions (via photosynthetic processes), but would also indirectly lead to increased fish population, which would be fortuitous for the fisheries in the province.

The complaint on fisheries threat is unfounded and unsubstantiated. Research before you post.


Regards,
A. Lorenzo Lucino,

what in h-e-l-l...!  lorenzo, i am more inclined to believe that you should know first what you're talking (or writing) about before you post.

one news item on how the process of a memorandum was done may not negate the threat, imagined or otherwise, to the livelihood of a good number of boholanos.  this is the complaint that had to be addressed and not just dismissed as "unfounded and unsubstantiated" for reasons of scientific gobbledygook that you've so willingly shared.

also, learn to fully understand what you read first before answering.  have you ever considered the possibility that bc is not after a lecture on ecology or environmental science, much less limnology, which any idiot can google?  a semester's theoretical academic exposure to such field doesn't make one expert enough to dismiss the social ramifications that certain big projects are bound to whip up.    

 

Quote from: Lorenzo on October 31, 2010, 02:27:11 PM

There really is no downside to seaweed farming, as it is a self-serving industry. It literally consumes the sewage and chemical run-off, considering that seaweed is a benthic algae, and thus, a detritus, which consumes debris and waste (it consumes CO2, it produces energy via photosynthesis)

Seaweed provides the foundation for species diversification, as it is essential for the foundation of a stable aquatic fauna and fisheries. This is basic aquatic ecology taught in collegiate curriculum.

The propelling of such a wide-scale industry could not only produce almost unlimited petroleum ether, would provide jobs for engineers and skilled laborers, as well as can provide for further research on algacultural initiatives.

This is the basis of many research projects in American Colleges focusing on aquatic environmental science.

If you have any further questions, please, Charlie, do ask.


Best,
Lorenzo

as there is no downside to anything else if one focuses only on the upside.  (remember george bush's defense of the u.s. iraq invasion?) 

project proponents and their slew of analysts and writers of project proposals are good at this.  one doesn't sell one's self short, until social conscience sets in.  (i should f_cking know, having been a paid hack at framing project proposals to make them palatable.)  i dare not presume, though, that i know a topic well enough just because it is faintly related to a subject i took in college.  one has to get one's hand dirty, on the field, as i presume bc is doing or plans to do.

a "self-serving industry"?  heavens.  you mean the seaweed industry serves only itself, never mind the environment, the workers, and the society at large?  don't start shooting yourself in the foot, please.

by the way, if i were bc a.k.a. charlie, i'd be asking myself what questions should i be asking you, unless i'm too lazy to google.  take lorenzo's offer and ask at your own peril, charlie!   

       

Quote from: islander on October 31, 2010, 07:15:54 PM
what in h-e-l-l...!  lorenzo, i am more inclined to believe that you should know first what you're talking (or writing) about before you post.

one news item on how the process of a memorandum was done may not negate the threat, imagined or otherwise, to the livelihood of a good number of boholanos.  this is the complaint that had to be addressed and not just dismissed as "unfounded and unsubstantiated" for reasons of scientific gobbledygook that you've so willingly shared.

also, learn to fully understand what you read first before answering.  have you ever considered the possibility that bc is not after a lecture on ecology or environmental science, much less limnology, which any idiot can google?  a semester's theoretical academic exposure to such field doesn't make one expert enough to dismiss the social ramifications that certain big projects are bound to whip up.    

 

Well there is a proverb i always remember,,The more you talk the more you commit mistake   ..and that goes to Lorenzo..

Quote from: vrglguapo on October 31, 2010, 08:00:43 PM
Well there is a proverb i always remember,,The more you talk the more you commit mistake   ..and that goes to Lorenzo..

Kahinumdom ko sa giingon ni Lincoln nga "Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak out and erase all doubt."

Unya naa pod si Fultom Sheen giingon, "Great men tell the truth and are seldom believed. Lesser men are generally believed, though they seldom speak the truth." (Fulton Sheen)

Which is which? 

Quote from: islander on October 31, 2010, 07:15:54 PM
what in h-e-l-l...!  lorenzo, i am more inclined to believe that you should know first what you're talking (or writing) about before you post.

one news item on how the process of a memorandum was done may not negate the threat, imagined or otherwise, to the livelihood of a good number of boholanos.  this is the complaint that had to be addressed and not just dismissed as "unfounded and unsubstantiated" for reasons of scientific gobbledygook that you've so willingly shared.

also, learn to fully understand what you read first before answering.  have you ever considered the possibility that bc is not after a lecture on ecology or environmental science, much less limnology, which any idiot can google?  a semester's theoretical academic exposure to such field doesn't make one expert enough to dismiss the social ramifications that certain big projects are bound to whip up.    

 

Isles, I'm focusing on the fisheries point of view, in regards to benthic algae. Thanks.

Quote from: islander on October 31, 2010, 07:54:58 PM
as there is no downside to anything else if one focuses only on the upside.  (remember george bush's defense of the u.s. iraq invasion?) 

project proponents and their slew of analysts and writers of project proposals are good at this.  one doesn't sell one's self short, until social conscience sets in.  (i should f_cking know, having been a paid hack at framing project proposals to make them palatable.)  i dare not presume, though, that i know a topic well enough just because it is faintly related to a subject i took in college.  one has to get one's hand dirty, on the field, as i presume bc is doing or plans to do.

a "self-serving industry"?  heavens.  you mean the seaweed industry serves only itself, never mind the environment, the workers, and the society at large?  don't start shooting yourself in the foot, please.

by the way, if i were bc a.k.a. charlie, i'd be asking myself what questions should i be asking you, unless i'm too lazy to google.  take lorenzo's offer and ask at your own peril, charlie!   

       

Isles, in regards to the topic at hand, I am focusing on the ecological aspect, to which the algaculture has very little ecological changes, in fact, it has been proven through biochemical environmental processes that benthic algae such as seaweed can reduce CO2 emmisions as well as reduce carbon, nitrogen and phosphorus emmisions, which are paramount in eutrophication processes. Thus, there is an inhibition of the negative factors, in regards to algaculture. Thank You.

PS. Self-serving, meaning that it serves itself and does not require excess environmental cleaning , unlike many other natural resources, the aquisition of petroleum ether through extraction processes, does not cause any devastating alterations in the local environment. Unlike natural gas extraction, petroleum extraction or blast mining, which result in pervasive release of sewage and CO2 emmisions with little to no reduction of said wastes as well as result in changes in local setting, seaweed actually removes its own wastes (literally) and uses it for energy.

Unlike the said natural resources I mentioned earlier, which are non-renewable resources, seaweed provides almost continuously renewable petroleum ether. So long as seaweed colonies remain in production.


Thanks.
Lorenzo

Quote from: chicogon on October 31, 2010, 09:01:26 PM
Which is which? 

i'd go for both (lincoln's and sheen's), not one over the other.  lincoln's is about the silence one keeps in introspection, about judging the sureness of one's grasp of knowledge and the entailing conclusion that one must know when to talk and not to talk.  sheen's is all about talking by men of all sizes and the missed opportunities that befall those who fail to discriminate between who and what to believe in.  if one has to assign numerical coordinates to these two quotations, they will never meet.

I suggest you read biochemistry of algae and fungi.

Reference:

http://www.annualreviews.org/doi/abs/10.1146/annurev.pp.15.060164.001551?journalCode=arplant.1

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC180857/

http://algaculture.wordpress.com/

http://www.indiana.edu/~ensiweb/bioE.PhotoRespFerm.Dem.pdf

Let us continue to discuss only the subject at hand, namely, bioethanol scandal and the science involved.
The point of my posts was to provide a basic reiteration of biochemical pathways of seaweed and the former's effects / or minimal effects on the local ecology. As well as to answer Charlie's honest question, which was asking specifically for an ecological answer, and thus provided him.

The Truth: Seaweed Algaculture is in fact an environmentally-friendly renewable resource; one that has been clamored for by many green-friendly American proponents ; and one that has been a subject of intense feasibility research for many American energy corporations.

I stand firm to what I said earlier.

Thanks.

In regards to aquamarine life, namely fisheries (herbivorous as well as pisciverous species types) are dependent on the bottom ecology and presence of benthic algae, as it is a kestone (and thus integral) pillar of an aquatic ecosystem. It provides the basis for herbivory feeders, basis for cover against predatory fishes. With an increase in herbivorous fishes, this will lead to an increase in the population of pisciverous fish population, thus increase the overall local fish population.

This, in actuality, would increase the output of many fishermen in the region, and thus, is the anithesis of a fisherine problem.

Thanks.

The Photosynthetic Pathway, a simplified illustration:








On pollution control:

Much of the carbon dioxide that is released into the atmosphere is from the burning of fossil fuels. With concerns over global warming, new methods for the thorough and efficient capture of CO2 are being sought out. An alternative to carbon capture and storage, by attaching an algae pond, or photobioreactor, to any fuel burning plant, the carbon dioxide produced during combustion can be fed into the algae system. Additional nutrients can be sourced from sewage, thus turning two pollutants into resources for the production of biofuels, with a land requirement much smaller than other crop sources (terrestrial crops) and without competing with food production.

Reference:
http://www.euroasiaindustry.com/page/466/A-Green-Solution

http://www.apru.org/awi/cmas/2nd%20meeting/UM1%20-%20Marine%20Ecosystems.pdf

Quote from: Lorenzo on October 31, 2010, 09:23:49 PM
Isles, I'm focusing on the fisheries point of view, in regards to benthic algae. Thanks.

obviously.  it's just unfortunate that what you're focusing on isn't what's truly needed by the question, which is about large-scale seaweeds production and what goes into its industrial operation, downside, upside and all.  a certain cycle in marine life would not render the complaints of threats to existing livelihoods as unsubstantiated.  say, i ask you about poetry and walt whitman and you give me the details of sappho's lesbianism in her poetry?

Actually, it does, as Charlie asked about the effects. To which was answered, the fisheries result, which was ill-posted in the original article; additionally, the said algacuture has positive effects in reducing CO2 emmissions and other sewage wastes. The industry literally eats its own trash.

I suggest you read more into the biochemistry and the ecology of aquatic ecosystems, it would elucidate many things for you. It's truly an interesting subject, specialized field of biology (zoology and botany)

In ecology, it focuses on the study of benthic algae, to herbivory , to piscivory, it is a stratified level of study, one which is essential for the proper study and relegation of data.

So thus, it is necessary to discuss the biochemistry involved, and the organismal aspect ; and the different niches these organisms are placed in.
Ecology, as the study of the environment, specifically in this case, the aquamarine environment, it is necessitated that we study everything. From bottom up.


Thanks,
Lorenz

A seaweed farm in Bali, Indonesia:

Quote from: Lorenzo on October 31, 2010, 09:26:40 PM
Isles, in regards to the topic at hand, I am focusing on the ecological aspect, to which the algaculture has very little ecological changes, in fact, it has been proven through biochemical environmental processes that benthic algae such as seaweed can reduce CO2 emmisions as well as reduce carbon, nitrogen and phosphorus emmisions, which are paramount in eutrophication processes. Thus, there is an inhibition of the negative factors, in regards to algaculture. Thank You.

PS. Self-serving, meaning that it serves itself and does not require excess environmental cleaning , unlike many other natural resources, the aquisition of petroleum ether through extraction processes, does not cause any devastating alterations in the local environment. Unlike natural gas extraction, petroleum extraction or blast mining, which result in pervasive release of sewage and CO2 emmisions with little to no reduction of said wastes as well as result in changes in local setting, seaweed actually removes its own wastes (literally) and uses it for energy.

Unlike the said natural resources I mentioned earlier, which are non-renewable resources, seaweed provides almost continuously renewable petroleum ether. So long as seaweed colonies remain in production.


Thanks.
Lorenzo

and you believe that what you're focusing on and all those details are helpful?  then fine.  whether they're needed or not or understood or not isn't part of the equation.  what matters then is that you can say what you want.  sometimes, though, it pays to know when to stop "talking" in order to be understood.  we're supposed to communicate to be understood, not to impress.

p.s.  you must have meant self-sustaining then, not self-serving. 

thanks too.
 

Quote from: Lorenzo on October 31, 2010, 09:35:36 PM
I suggest you read biochemistry of algae and fungi.

Reference:

http://www.annualreviews.org/doi/abs/10.1146/annurev.pp.15.060164.001551?journalCode=arplant.1

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC180857/

http://algaculture.wordpress.com/

http://www.indiana.edu/~ensiweb/bioE.PhotoRespFerm.Dem.pdf

thanks, but no thanks.  this small brain of mine cannot take in so much knowledge as it is, much less communicate to the rest of humanity the things that i get to read.   i'm still at that stage where i have to churn, grind, and refine whatever it is that i get to read and absorb and to try to pass it on, in english.

Quote from: islander on October 31, 2010, 10:42:26 PM
and you believe that what you're focusing on and all those details are helpful?  then fine.  whether they're needed or not or understood or not isn't part of the equation.  what matters then is that you can say what you want.  sometimes, though, it pays to know when to stop "talking" in order to be understood.  we're supposed to communicate to be understood, not to impress.

p.s.  you must have meant self-sustaining then, not self-serving. 

thanks too.
 

Self serving, or if you would prefer, self-sustaining, the point was made. I am saddened to read that you thought that my post was trying to impress, which was not the case at all. My post was to provide a biological and ecological explanation with the issue, since it was not addressed in prior posts.

It is also important to state this, Isles, that it is rather disappointing to read that you have twisted the meaning and intention of my post in this matter. In my view, it was a simplistic sharing of information, for Charlie, to which it was addressed to, and to the interested viewers.

Try not to focus on the unsubstantiated 'negative' assumptions. It strays away from the point of the post.

Back to the subject matter. Thanks.


Best,
Lorenzo

Re: This one I wish was explained in the dialect or binisaya kay wala gajod koy kasayuran ani nga subject matter as stated in my earlier reply. The terms "bentic algae" is so foreign to me; what is not foreign is "Pintik ni Alging." Unsa man god ni bahin? Bahin ug guso? lato? plain seaweed, etc? Hehehehe. I'm actually enjoying some readings here. 

Quote from: Lorenzo on October 31, 2010, 09:47:15 PM
In regards to aquamarine life, namely fisheries (herbivorous as well as pisciverous species types) are dependent on the bottom ecology and presence of benthic algae, as it is a kestone (and thus integral) pillar of an aquatic ecosystem. It provides the basis for herbivory feeders, basis for cover against predatory fishes. With an increase in herbivorous fishes, this will lead to an increase in the population of pisciverous fish population, thus increase the overall local fish population.

This, in actuality, would increase the output of many fishermen in the region, and thus, is the anithesis of a fisherine problem.

Thanks.

in other words, in keeping with charlie's initial post and the trend of your posts, large-scale or industrial level seaweeds production is what is needed to increase the local fish population?  let me bring this further down the road of logic of no return; without such industrial level production, by just letting nature take care of itself and doing away with abusive and indiscriminate fishing, the fish population would be threatened?

such actuality that you mentioned is the stuff of which promises of nirvana by big industry is made.  the antithesis here is to the "fisherine problem" of big industry, not of the many fishermen in the region.  how in the world "fisherine problem" got into the picture in the first place confuses me.

the fisherine quantity theory equation:  MV=PT

"The fisherine quantity theory is mechanical and mathematical.  It takes no account of the psychological valuations of individuals.  Under it, the existing quantity of money is the sole determinant of money's value.  The value of the monetary unit is supposed to vary inversely with the quantity of money in existence.  This means that the "price level" of goods and services is supposed to vary directly and proportionately with the supply of money." (Ludwig von Mises Institute, http://mises.org/daily/2916)

go, figure.

Quote from: Lorenzo on October 31, 2010, 11:00:32 PM
Self serving, or if you would prefer, self-sustaining, the point was made. I am saddened to read that you thought that my post was trying to impress, which was not the case at all. My post was to provide a biological and ecological explanation with the issue, since it was not addressed in prior posts.

there's a whale of a difference between self-serving and self-sustaining, lorenz, and using one for the other had erased the point.  words are tricky, as you may know.  look at how saddened you are, when my intention was not to sadden you, with my statement that we communicate to be understood and not to impress, which is nothing but a standard line on the subject of communication.

if you felt the need to provide the biological and ecological explanations on the issue, must you also feel the need to ask charlie to research first before posting?  you seem to have no problem doing the research for him!

Quote from: chicogon on October 31, 2010, 11:34:31 PM
Re: This one I wish was explained in the dialect or binisaya kay wala gajod koy kasayuran ani nga subject matter as stated in my earlier reply. The terms "bentic algae" is so foreign to me; what is not foreign is "Pintik ni Alging." Unsa man god ni bahin? Bahin ug guso? lato? plain seaweed, etc? Hehehehe. I'm actually enjoying some readings here. 

pintik ni alging?  hahaha!  paskang nimo, fr chic.  (happy momo diay diha, trick or treat.)  daghan sad kog wa masabti dinhi mao nga nalingaw sad ko.  apil ba kaha ang ambang ug lusay sa guso ug lato...  

Quote from: Lorenzo on October 31, 2010, 11:00:32 PM
It is also important to state this, Isles, that it is rather disappointing to read that you have twisted the meaning and intention of my post in this matter. In my view, it was a simplistic sharing of information, for Charlie, to which it was addressed to, and to the interested viewers.

Try not to focus on the unsubstantiated 'negative' assumptions. It strays away from the point of the post.

Back to the subject matter. Thanks.

Best,
Lorenzo

i am an interested viewer.  sorry to disappoint you, but i took your posts on their own merits.  i cannot twist their meanings further as by themselves these already strike me as twisted and far from simplistic.  

those 'negative assumptions' aren't unsubstantiated, otherwise there would be no complaints about this particular industry's memorandum of understanding in this our particular province.  whether or not these complaints are more than mere political posturing and beyond political motives is another matter.  what matters is that they're out in the open and authorities will now hopefully be more careful with their steps.  

meanwhile, we have to consider that the world's industrial history shows that big industry almost always had to sacrifice individuals, those living and breathing human beings, in the pursuit of corporate greed.  it is what this thread is all about, not some marine science indigestible data that are better left to scientists.

goodnight, lorenz.  (it's almost 2 a.m. here.)  i hope we never forget that our disagreements on some things have nothing to do with us as persons.  if i may, let me add that you make this forum more interesting.  happy halloween!

Quote from: islander on October 31, 2010, 11:37:53 PM
in other words, in keeping with charlie's initial post and the trend of your posts, large-scale or industrial level seaweeds production is what is needed to increase the local fish population?  let me bring this further down the road of logic of no return; without such industrial level production, by just letting nature take care of itself and doing away with abusive and indiscriminate fishing, the fish population would be threatened?

If we allow natural processes to proceed, considering the rich diversification of the marine ecofauna of Bohol, and the plenitude of fishes, there is little to no fear of reduced fish output, for the time being.

Fish growth will not be decreased by the seaweed plant production, nor would there be any damage or reduction of fishing outpout, as was feared in the original article, as it is made to think (for those who have no background in aquatic environmental science, biochemical processes of benthic algae) that fish life would be jeapordized by the sea-weed colonies, if it were to be completed, that is.

On the contrary, it is important to note, for all readers that there is no threat to aquatic ecosystems , specifically on fish populations since seaweed is an essential keystone member, that assures overall health of fish habitat and population. Thus, since it provides such an integral factor, would help in the increasing of fish population, and thus inhibits any fears of any possibility of fish population in Bohol's waters to be threatened in any way.

In directly answering Charlie's query, the possibility of any environmental mishap that can occur due to this is minimal at best; considering this is a renewable natural resource, unlike said the damaging industries such as natural gas extraction, blast mining, coal mining, pure petroleum extraction etc, all of which cause detrimental effects on the local and region-wide environment.

Thanks.

Quote from: islander on November 01, 2010, 12:18:00 AM
there's a whale of a difference between self-serving and self-sustaining, lorenz, and using one for the other had erased the point.  words are tricky, as you may know.  look at how saddened you are, when my intention was not to sadden you, with my statement that we communicate to be understood and not to impress, which is nothing but a standard line on the subject of communication.

if you felt the need to provide the biological and ecological explanations on the issue, must you also feel the need to ask charlie to research first before posting?  you seem to have no problem doing the research for him!

The point was made, and it directly correlated with the information that was fluidly given , to assess the point that I had specifically targeted. Biological information and processes is necessary as it provides the basis and nullifies any possibility of misunderstanding ; hard science is most important in discussing this subject matter, considering the subject matter involves biochemical pathways, specifically on benthic algae, and its possible effects on the local ecology.

Thus, the two are tangential and necessary for internal processes of said information.

Thanks.

Quote from: islander on November 01, 2010, 12:44:22 AM
i am an interested viewer.  sorry to disappoint you, but i took your posts on their own merits.  i cannot twist their meanings further as by themselves these already strike me as twisted and far from simplistic.  

those 'negative assumptions' aren't unsubstantiated, otherwise there would be no complaints about this particular industry's memorandum of understanding in this our particular province.  whether or not these complaints are more than mere political posturing and beyond political motives is another matter.  what matters is that they're out in the open and authorities will now hopefully be more careful with their steps.  

meanwhile, we have to consider that the world's industrial history shows that big industry almost always had to sacrifice individuals, those living and breathing human beings, in the pursuit of corporate greed.  it is what this thread is all about, not some marine science indigestible data that are better left to scientists.

goodnight, lorenz.  (it's almost 2 a.m. here.)  i hope we never forget that our disagreements on some things have nothing to do with us as persons.  if i may, let me add that you make this forum more interesting.  happy halloween!

No, those negative assumptions were rather unnecessary and the example of side-topicing, which I will not honor any further. No one was trying to 'impress' anything, rather share the biological processes involving the said subject, namely benthic photosynthesis, and its correlation in reducing carbon emissions, which goes solidly in line with what I've been trying to address throughout my post(s) in this thread.

If you assumed that I was trying to impress , then I apologize that you thought that, because in all truth and purposes, was not. My sharing of the biochemical processes is necessary as to elucidate any misunderstanding, as well as to shed light on something that I have experience in.



Thanks.
Lorenzo

Quote from: chicogon on October 31, 2010, 11:34:31 PM
Re: This one I wish was explained in the dialect or binisaya kay wala gajod koy kasayuran ani nga subject matter as stated in my earlier reply. The terms "bentic algae" is so foreign to me; what is not foreign is "Pintik ni Alging." Unsa man god ni bahin? Bahin ug guso? lato? plain seaweed, etc? Hehehehe. I'm actually enjoying some readings here. 

Ah, Father Lungay, all I can say is that the beauty and wonder of the Lord is glorified. For He created these processes to occur at a whimb, ordained that the algae perform photosynthesis. These species have survived and lived for eons through this simplistic yet amazing resource acquisition. We, humans, have recently just figured out how these organisms replicate, populate and adapt to the environmental stressors.

The way everything is designed, and ordered in the natural world is amazing. It sings Glory to the Creator who created it all.

God IS Great!

Happy Sunday Everyone!

Quote from: Lorenzo on November 01, 2010, 01:45:29 AM
Ah, Father Lungay, all I can say is that the beauty and wonder of the Lord is glorified. For He created these processes to occur at a whimb, ordained that the algae perform photosynthesis. These species have survived and lived for eons through this simplistic yet amazing resource acquisition. We, humans, have recently just figured out how these organisms replicate, populate and adapt to the environmental stressors.

The way everything is designed, and ordered in the natural world is amazing. It sings Glory to the Creator who created it all.

God IS Great!

From the Christian perspective or point of view I am always awed (and wowed) by the amazing wonders all around us (indeed, there is a touch of heaven everywhere!). And Bohol has plenty of them, needless to say. What I'm WARY ABOUT is what people (esp. those hiding behind the facades of big corporations and masks of powerful political figures) do to these wonderful creations, and to poor people, who are basically dependent on these God-given wonders. I may sound suspicious but I can't read motives either. Based on historical facts the locals or the poor people from a particular area are usually the ones who suffer the most if and when our fears become a reality. God forbid if that happens to our beloved Bohol and to our fellow Boholanos. But it's happening everywhere!!!

To be honest, I personally liked the way the Japanese project (JAICA) did in the early 80's... they came and taught us (Boholanos and Pinoys alike) how to be good farmers. Pero gahi lang jud nig mga ulo ning mga Pinoy kay magbuot jog ilaha (WA SUNDA MGA GITUDLO SA HAPON UNSAON PAGTANOM UG HUMAY HEHEHEHE). Their investment was in helping us "learn how to fish" in our own backyard, rather than "fishing in our own backyard and bring the harvest to Japan." Meaning, kung akoy pagbut-on, I prefer if foreign investors (I wonder if you can call one if they are not for profit) teach our locals how to manage and/or make use of our natural resources using scientific ways and/or modern technology. I'm sure we haven't even tapped the best ways to celebrate (aw!) our nature's giftedness. 

Quote from: islander on November 01, 2010, 12:28:39 AM
pintik ni alging?  hahaha!  paskang nimo, fr chic.  (happy momo diay diha, trick or treat.)  daghan sad kog wa masabti dinhi mao nga nalingaw sad ko.  apil ba kaha ang ambang ug lusay sa guso ug lato...  

Yes, my 1st cuzin Alger who is now also a priest (former kura sa Loboc, karon sa Sindangan... where the "benticol" or "benthic alger" is so abundant) used to have many tirador or pintik when we were kids. If we needed one, we go to him (so the expression "pintik ni alging"). That was what registered in my brain when I was reading some of the posts here hihihihihi  

And why is it called SCANDAL? Hmmmm, maka huna2x man sad ta sa kanta ni Yoyok kabahin sa mga isda, shokoy agukoy, guso, lato nga nag disco. Arang ka iskandaloso jud tingali ani tan-awon  

Mao bani ang "DOUBLE SHOW" sa receipt & donation?

Quote from: bol-anon quo nyur! on November 01, 2010, 04:40:33 AM
Mao bani ang "DOUBLE SHOW" sa receipt & donation?

tagalog movie kadto.  kini french artsy movie.  

pakapin:  happy halloween, boo! (from casperita the unfriendly ghost)

Hmm. What a lively discussion. So much talk, so much erudition, so much intellectual agitation summarized in the following profound statement:

Quote from: Lorenzo on October 31, 2010, 02:27:11 PM
There really is no downside to seaweed farming, as it is a self-serving industry.

Happy All Saints Day, folks! Be holy, be happy!

Quote from: chicogon on November 01, 2010, 03:30:37 AM
From the Christian perspective or point of view I am always awed (and wowed) by the amazing wonders all around us (indeed, there is a touch of heaven everywhere!). And Bohol has plenty of them, needless to say. What I'm WARY ABOUT is what people (esp. those hiding behind the facades of big corporations and masks of powerful political figures) do to these wonderful creations, and to poor people, who are basically dependent on these God-given wonders. I may sound suspicious but I can't read motives either. Based on historical facts the locals or the poor people from a particular area are usually the ones who suffer the most if and when our fears become a reality. God forbid if that happens to our beloved Bohol and to our fellow Boholanos. But it's happening everywhere!!!

To be honest, I personally liked the way the Japanese project (JAICA) did in the early 80's... they came and taught us (Boholanos and Pinoys alike) how to be good farmers. Pero gahi lang jud nig mga ulo ning mga Pinoy kay magbuot jog ilaha (WA SUNDA MGA GITUDLO SA HAPON UNSAON PAGTANOM UG HUMAY HEHEHEHE). Their investment was in helping us "learn how to fish" in our own backyard, rather than "fishing in our own backyard and bring the harvest to Japan." Meaning, kung akoy pagbut-on, I prefer if foreign investors (I wonder if you can call one if they are not for profit) teach our locals how to manage and/or make use of our natural resources using scientific ways and/or modern technology. I'm sure we haven't even tapped the best ways to celebrate (aw!) our nature's giftedness. 

Hi Father,

You stressed a very important point, which I do agree with you, namely that there are large corporations out there that will take advantage of much poorer, easily influenced provinces, per se Bohol. This is why I believe that the Philippines , as a whole, should pool with open free market societies in taking advantage of our country's seemingly rich bounty (in raw natural resources). If the Philippines were to grow large seaweed plants, the amount of petroleum ether and methane extracted could offset our dependence on foreign resources, as well as even make the Philippines a global supplier of seaweed-based petroleum ether.

I for one would be in support of such initiatives, and for further researching renewable resources with more affluent nations that could help the Philippines in future infrastructural projects, investments.

Irrespective of political machinations and past, future loyalties, I believe that the political system in the Philippines must goal to sever our dependence on foreign energy imports. We should begin by investing in renewable resources, particularly to take note of Ilocos Norte's wind farms, which can be be implemented in provinces that experience high wind-trajectory, again, to offset foreign dependence.

In regards to the topic of seaweed farming, the reason why I'm such a proponent of this is because there are many countries in the world that could only dream of implementing such a plan to reality. But fail. The reason why is because most countries have a minimal coast line, let alone lack a rich diversification of aquatic ecofauna that is necessary for seaweed colony growth.

The Philippines, which is comprised of over 7,100 islands and with a rich coastline that stretches over 36,289 kilometers, which is twice that of the United States'! What does this mean? Well, considering the Philippines is rich with aquatic fauna, rich in oxygen turnover, she is a perfect host to grow seaweed colonies, with a possibility of producing millions of barrels of petroleum ether , if resources are pooled effectively.

The country, The Philippines, is literally sitting on treasure. Our location, our raw natural resources, and our effective man power reserves the Philippines to become a regional / global player in petroleum exports in the future, if it plays its card effectively.

lorenzo/islander

If we allow natural processes to proceed, considering the rich diversification of the marine ecofauna of Bohol, and the plenitude of fishes, there is little to no fear of reduced fish output, for the time being.

Fish growth will not be decreased by the seaweed plant production, nor would there be any damage or reduction of fishing outpout, as was feared in the original article, as it is made to think (for those who have no background in aquatic environmental science, biochemical processes of benthic algae) that fish life would be jeapordized by the sea-weed colonies, if it were to be completed, that is.

those whose livelihoods depend on the sea and its resources must be presumed to know what it is they speak of and fear as they know the tides like the palms of their hands.  we cannot presume that they have no background in aquatic environmental science, biological processes or some benthic or menstrual algae that some guy who never got his hands dirty on the field or at sea happens to come across.  one cannot assure these people of the continuity of marine life with scientific language when they know that when such large-scale industry sees fruition some areas of the sea where they used to eke out their daily source of income will be off limits to them.  isn’t that what this supposed scandal is also about?

On the contrary, it is important to note, for all readers that there is no threat to aquatic ecosystems , specifically on fish populations since seaweed is an essential keystone member, that assures overall health of fish habitat and population. Thus, since it provides such an integral factor, would help in the increasing of fish population, and thus inhibits any fears of any possibility of fish population in Bohol's waters to be threatened in any way.

go on repeating yourself.  it wouldn’t make you more understood or misunderstood than you already are.

In directly answering Charlie's query, the possibility of any environmental mishap that can occur due to this is minimal at best; considering this is a renewable natural resource, unlike said the damaging industries such as natural gas extraction, blast mining, coal mining, pure petroleum extraction etc, all of which cause detrimental effects on the local and region-wide environment.

charlie can do some research on this himself, if he hasn’t already done so.  or for that matter, so can the bohol chronicle newswriter whose article started this thread.

Thanks.

thanks too.

Quote from: Lorenzo on November 01, 2010, 01:26:23 AM
The point was made, and it directly correlated with the information that was fluidly given , to assess the point that I had specifically targeted. Biological information and processes is necessary as it provides the basis and nullifies any possibility of misunderstanding ; hard science is most important in discussing this subject matter, considering the subject matter involves biochemical pathways, specifically on benthic algae, and its possible effects on the local ecology.

Thus, the two are tangential and necessary for internal processes of said information.

Thanks.

okay then, let’s have it your scientific way, since you insist on your point that i failed to see, if it hadn’t taken on the ability of a magician’s disappearing act, and the information that you had so “fluidly given” (i must be an idiot for not seeing its fluidity in all its forms, solid or gaseous notwithstanding).

the natural phenomena of hardboiled science, that is, when oven temperature is pre-heated at 350 degrees centigrade, as applied to the metaphysics of the human mind, goes out through the pathways of an internal combustion engine where x=mn3, thus kappaphycus alvarezii, codium edule silva, and other kelps in the class of phaeophyceae in the kingdom by the sea of  chromalveolata, will propel the solution to the fisherine problems of the industry because these are technically feasible as livelihood interventions.  now I hope you see my point as you insist on yours.   

thanks.

lorenzo/islander

No, those negative assumptions were rather unnecessary and the example of side-topicing, which I will not honor any further. No one was trying to 'impress' anything, rather share the biological processes involving the said subject, namely benthic photosynthesis, and its correlation in reducing carbon emissions, which goes solidly in line with what I've been trying to address throughout my post(s) in this thread.

yes, those negative assumptions are necessary because in everything that humans do all sides have to be taken into consideration and weighed for their merits before one can truly make a judgment call.  â€œside-topicing”, whatever that means, is out of the question here.
 
If you assumed that I was trying to impress , then I apologize that you thought that, because in all truth and purposes, was not.

may i refer you back to reply #36 of this thread where the word “impress” was explained as part of a standard line on the subject of communication and not to describe what you do.

My sharing of the biochemical processes is necessary as to elucidate any misunderstanding, as well as to shed light on something that I have experience in.

as for your sharing of biochemical processes being “necessary”, thank you.  i may not be the only reader who becomes more confused after reading than before.  some elucidation we’re having here; it mystifies.  so you wanted to shed light on something that you had experience in, like your experience of some marine research assistance job.  is that research experience clearer to you now that you had shed light on it?  

Thanks.
Lorenzo

thanks too.  a happy sunday and blessed all saints' day to you and everyone!

islander.

Isles, you may choose what to read and what not to read (if the scientific post bores you).However,  I post my thoughts not just for you, but for the entirety of tubag bohol to read.
That said,

Have a blessed Sunday as well.

Lorenz

Quote from: islander on November 01, 2010, 06:15:39 AM



those whose livelihoods depend on the sea and its resources must be presumed to know what it is they speak of and fear as they know the tides like the palms of their hands.  we cannot presume that they have no background in aquatic environmental science, biological processes or some benthic or menstrual algae that some guy who never got his hands dirty on the field or at sea happens to come across.  one cannot assure these people of the continuity of marine life with scientific language when they know that when such large-scale industry sees fruition some areas of the sea where they used to eke out their daily source of income will be off limits to them.  isn’t that what this supposed scandal is also about?


thanks too.

The point is, Isles, the growth of seaweed algae predominantly will be located near the shallow waters, not in deep areas where heavy commercial fishing takes place. hehe

Seaweed Farms


In Shimanto, Japan

Quote from: Lorenzo on November 01, 2010, 06:43:50 AM
Isles, you may choose what to read and what not to read (if the scientific post bores you).However,  I post my thoughts not just for you, but for the entirety of tubag bohol to read.
That said,

Have a blessed Sunday as well.

Lorenz

may i remind you that that i lay no claim that you posted just for me.  considering myself as literate enough like everybody else here, i find scientific posts by themselves as not boring, the mishmash of data is.  it could be your presentation that confuses, not the data by themselves.  and boy, does confusion bore.  as i do not want to be bored, so do i answer posts such as yours to know what you're at or where the truth lies.  the word "bore", by the way, is yours, not mine.  let it be said that once you post anything, you must expect reactions from anyone, including me.  if that bores you, so be it.      

Not at all, if you bore me, I would never respond, Isles.
Truth be told, I enjoy reading your response(s).
Quite exciting what to expect next.

Quote from: U.S. of America on October 24, 2010, 09:41:26 PM
Published by the Bohol Chronicle

A supposedly mega project of former governor, now 2nd District Congressman
Erico Aumentado is mired in controversy following allegations of blatant procedural lapses and even serious constitutional issues.

A public consultation called last Thursday practically unearthed a veritable
trove of revelations straight from those supposed beneficiaries of the project
and officials who had a hand in the dubious manner in which the project was laid
out.

The output of the consultation will be presented during a meeting on
Wednesday with visiting Korean officials.

The consultation was conducted by a joint committee on Agriculture,
Natural Resources and Environmental Protection, Good Government, Justice and
Human Rights headed by Board Members Abeleon Damalerio and Vencenzo Arcamo
respectively together with Cezar Lopez., vice chair of the Finance, Budget and
Appropriations committee Dubbed as the "Bioethanol Research Center Project", a joint venture between

Biolsystems Co. Ltd. or "Biol" of the Republic of Korea and the Province of
Bohol, is focused on seaweed aquaculture, ethanol production and post-harvest.

Mounting public clamor from affected seaweed growers for the new provincial
leaders to conduct a probe on the marine aquaculture project which was kept
under wraps during the previous administration triggered the ongoing review by
the Sangguniang Panlalawigan (SP).
         

According to the assailed MOU, the Province of Bohol will set aside for the
exclusive operation of the Korean company 3 has. as test area for aquaculture,
500 has. for seedling plantation, 25,000 up to 100,000 has. for the aquaculture
site proper. Another 60 has. will be guaranteed by the province for an ethanol
production factory and residential area for workers.

The project will not only be in the waters of Bohol but also a possible tie-up with neighboring provinces that would cover one million hectares.

The term contract is for a period of 50 years with a planned extension of 25
years.

The MOU further stated that security around the aquaculture and factory areas
will be provided by the PNP and the AFP.

Seaweed farmers feared the day when they would turn into mere laborers of these
giant foreign corporations instead of producers of seaweeds.

Seaweed farmers get P25T gross from seaweeds in a 2,500 sq. meter area five
times a year. Sales from abalone at P470/kilo, "tihi-tihi", sea cucumber at
P2,000/kilo and rare shells adds up to a tidy sum for the seaweed farmers.

Representatives from the Seaweed Investors Association of the Philippines (SIAP)
condemned the brazenness of these foreign corporations for threatening the
livelihood of the Filipino fisherfolks.

They voiced their suspicion that this MOU is now peddled in roadshows abroad to
entice investors for the project.

The marine aquaculture project, according to Atty. Titus Vistal of the
Provincial Planning and Development Office (PPDO) was never formally discussed
in the Provincial Development Council (PDC) but was taken up only as an
exploratory project.

Questions were also raised on the need for the Sangguniang Panglalawigan (SP) to
have been consulted on such an ambitious project even if the joint venture
project was in the nature of an Memorandum of Understanding (MOU).

During the meeting, seaweed growers associations, non-government organizations
(NGO's), People's organizations (PO's) engaged in marine protection were one in
denouncing not only the past administration but the Korean government for
deliberately ignoring a basic requirement for such a big project - public
consultation with the stakeholders.

Letters sent to the Korean government by the seaweed growers were ignored.

Even the municipality of Talibon which granted, upon the request of Aumentado,
50 has. in the islands of Sag and Bansan islands never informed the seaweed
growers about the areas reserved for the bioethanol project.

But stakeholders later found out that instead of Biol Co., the signatory of the
MOU, a firm by the name of Algahol, set up operations in Talibon.

Another firm, Metallic Ore Harvester Corporation identified as a Taiwanese
company is also into seaweeds farming in a 1200 has area also in Nocnocan isled
in Talibon.

Heavily armed security guards has been driving out local fishermen from their
farm area.

Leandres Artiaga, Fisheries Technician of the Provincial Agriculture Office (PAO), who was privy to the entry of Algahol in Talibon, told the Chronicle that he was pressured by a certain Ho Jea Lee, a Korean investor to sign the incorporation papers as an investor and a member of the board of directors for 50 shares valued at P1,861.

He further said that June Blanco, a former executive assistant of the Governor
also signed as an incorporator of Algahol.

Artiaga added that he submitted to the Provincial Legal Office an affidavit
withdrawing as member of the board of Algahol.

Meanwhile, June Blanco confirmed to the Chronicle that she signed as an
incorporator and secretary of Algahol to complete a corporation requirement.
Atty. Cathy Jamila of the Provincial Legal Office raised a constitutional issue
on a corporation exploiting our natural resources.

Initial findings showed that Algahol is a foreign corporation engaged in the
exploitation of our fisheries and aquatic resources which are reserved
exclusively for Filipinos.

A review of the registration papers of Algahol is now underway.

Atty. Handel Lagunay, former Provincial Legal Officer told the Chronicle that
Algohol is a foreign corporation incorporated domestically in the Philippines.

He also said that Algohol is not into actual seaweed farming but engaged in
research and development of marine aquaculture, procurement and marketing of
seaweed produce of the local seaweed farmers.

The 13 has. reported to be found planted with seaweeds was a pilot area to test
if certain varieties would thrive in the area, explained Lagunay.

The MOU between Biolsystems Co., Ltd. of the Republic of Korea and the Province
of Bohol were signed by 28 of the 30 Mayors of the coastal municipalities in
Bohol last July 16, 2009.

Inputs gathered from the public consultation will be collated and presented to
the Korean party on Wednesday, at the Bohol Tropics Hotel.

A few questions:

1. Who decided that the contract be for 50 years? Why so long?
2. Since the project will not be directly in Bohol waters, and since it was mentioned that it would be in cooperation with other province(s), which provinces are going to be involved aside from Bohol?
3. Why did the former provincial administration keep this on a low profile?
4. Where there other dealings with other foreign investors, aside from the Republic of Korea?
5. What is the current provincial government's plans with sea-weed farming? Is it even included?


Thanks.

Quote from: benelynne on October 25, 2010, 11:40:48 AM
It seems that Bohol has been made to commit more than its feasible share in green energy production. I remember that Bohol has also committed itself to hundreds of hectares in jatropha cultivation. Whatever happened to this one? I believe that if we grab every dollar-denominated offer being dangled before us, Bohol will no longer have arable land for grain production.

With the recent typhoon leveling most of northern Luzon's grain, will we turn again overseas for our basic rice needs? Last year, our much vaunted excess in rice self-sufficiency has already slipped below 80%.

Given the vast area and the number of people involved in this bioethanol project, why such secretive and hasty manner to clinch this project? Why so late a call for public consultation? Not only are we making a high-stakes gamble on our people's livelihood, we are also sending wrong signals to foreign investors about our business policy.

Tito Ben,

I agree with you in that it is quite alarming that this project was quite secretive, tho I must admit I am quite happy to hear that Bohol has interest(s) in cooperating in green-energy, quite thrilled actually.

I would also like to know how many provinces are involved in this project.

Quote from: Lorenzo on November 01, 2010, 06:49:24 AM
The point is, Isles, the growth of seaweed algae predominantly will be located near the shallow waters, not in deep areas where heavy commercial fishing takes place. hehe

as seaweed farms must.  but tell me, how deep can marginal fisherfolk go (we're not talking heavy commercial fishing here, which can go for months on end on the high seas) if we consider the following (as revealed by the bohol chronicle news item at the beginning of this thread):

According to the assailed MOU, the Province of Bohol will set aside for the
exclusive operation of the Korean company 3 has. as test area for aquaculture,
500 has. for seedling plantation, 25,000 up to 100,000 has. for the aquaculture
site proper.  Another 60 has. will be guaranteed by the province for an ethanol
production factory and residential area for workers.
***
The project will not only be in the waters of Bohol but also a possible tie-up with
neighboring provinces that would cover one million hectares.

The term contract is for a period of 50 years with a planned extension of 25
years.
***
Heavily armed security guards has been driving out local fishermen from their
farm area.

how deep is your love (for your fishing grounds), all ye marginal fisherfolk?

The concern I have is the fact that the contract is for 50 years, with a planned extension of 25 years.

He he, naunsa na man ni, oi, gubot pa man nis lukot. Nganong inyo man gikagubtan ang guso that lays the golden egg! Daghan jamong argumentum ad eucheuma denticulatum! Tabang, kaberks, napuga ang gamay kong utok sa sayans-sayans! Dali, manginhas sa ta!





Nanginhas si Bugsay, Vhinz, ug Botoy. Si Chongki tuas luyo ilang gitawag. Naay gasunod-sunod nga way purol, si Ondoy Bolbuhol.

na mora nalipong na kos ininglis sa mga tawo aniing dapita.....ajaw mo ani pag-ininglis ani kay unjag usbon ni bro mike ligalig ang sitename... imbis tubagbohol mahimo na hinoon ning "bohol-answers" hehehehe. 

simple ra akong analysis aning inyong gilalisan... kon asa ang location ani naa daghan gold treasures..... hehehe frontal business lang ni..... inig kakuha sa mga treasures..... ihatag/turn-over ra na dayon sa provincial government.....

paniid mo asa dapita nagplano sila magtukod ug building kay mangoykoy ta'g una sa gold treasures hehehehe.... morag naa sa dagat ang ilang target ani... mao ni resulta sa ilang survey2 konohay sa una sa mga kadagatan ambot unsay ngan adto nga exploration kadtong controversial pod bitaw......

kakuha mo sa ponto? hahahahahahha

there is a possibility that the koreans are only interested in bohol's gold treasures. the japanese have been using this kind of tactic. they will build a building or bridge, as donation, but the japanese are actually digging treasures.

on the bioethanol plantation of the koreans, we should remember that not a single drop of biofuel will go to bohol. the foreigners will exploit our natural resources but bohol will never be benefited.

we should also remember that this is not a small project. it will cover 1,000,000 hectares. i repeat 1 million hectares. every inch of the sea of Bohol will be a no-fisherman zone. all our small fishers will fish somewhere else outside the gmo-infested seaweeds plantation.

what will happen to the ecosystem when everything is covered with seaweeds? there will be an imbalance of nature. everything in the seas will die as millions or billions of seaweeds will dominate the seas.

again, not a single drop of biofuel will be used in bohol. everything will be shipped to korea.

i rest my case. it's either you favor the foreigners or you pity the 1.2 million boholanos who will never be able to eat fish fished out of bohol seas.

Quote from: U.S. of America on November 01, 2010, 09:16:31 AM
what will happen to the ecosystem when everything is covered with seaweeds? there will be an imbalance of nature. everything in the seas will die as millions or billions of seaweeds will dominate the seas.

Hmm, nalibog na jud akong kutaw ani, kay earlier diha man toy expert opinion nga opposite ang gisulti. Dia ra, ay...

Quote from: Lorenzo on October 31, 2010, 02:27:11 PMThere really is no downside to seaweed farming, as it is a self-serving industry.

-tuliyok ang utok si Botoy nga manginginhasay

wake up sheeps..this is not about truth nor lie. There is no secret here. How is it possible? Now, if the general populace only know this late, then is it the fault of one person alone? We are sooo trapped with wrong sentiments and perspectives..is it because of the kind of music that we keep on listening or movies that we watched? The birth of tragedy out of the spirit of music... Hey,, we are on moving on internet-time, no time to explain..gotta catch up other stuff..

Quote from: JUNAXCUBE on November 01, 2010, 08:12:12 AM
na mora nalipong na kos ininglis sa mga tawo aniing dapita.....ajaw mo ani pag-ininglis ani kay unjag usbon ni bro mike ligalig ang sitename... imbis tubagbohol mahimo na hinoon ning "bohol-answers" hehehehe.  

simple ra akong analysis aning inyong gilalisan... kon asa ang location ani naa daghan gold treasures..... hehehe frontal business lang ni..... inig kakuha sa mga treasures..... ihatag/turn-over ra na dayon sa provincial government.....

paniid mo asa dapita nagplano sila magtukod ug building kay mangoykoy ta'g una sa gold treasures hehehehe.... morag naa sa dagat ang ilang target ani... mao ni resulta sa ilang survey2 konohay sa una sa mga kadagatan ambot unsay ngan adto nga exploration kadtong controversial pod bitaw......

kakuha mo sa ponto? hahahahahahha

hahaha, i like that. "instead of tubag bohol ma himo na hinoon ning "bohol answers"
You're pretty cool J-cube.

Quote from: U.S. of America on November 01, 2010, 09:16:31 AM
there is a possibility that the koreans are only interested in bohol's gold treasures. the japanese have been using this kind of tactic. they will build a building or bridge, as donation, but the japanese are actually digging treasures.

on the bioethanol plantation of the koreans, we should remember that not a single drop of biofuel will go to bohol. the foreigners will exploit our natural resources but bohol will never be benefited.

we should also remember that this is not a small project. it will cover 1,000,000 hectares. i repeat 1 million hectares. every inch of the sea of Bohol will be a no-fisherman zone. all our small fishers will fish somewhere else outside the gmo-infested seaweeds plantation.

what will happen to the ecosystem when everything is covered with seaweeds? there will be an imbalance of nature. everything in the seas will die as millions or billions of seaweeds will dominate the seas.

again, not a single drop of biofuel will be used in bohol. everything will be shipped to korea.

i rest my case. it's either you favor the foreigners or you pity the 1.2 million boholanos who will never be able to eat fish fished out of bohol seas.

You have a point, US of A. If this project is to be secured, at least some of the proceedings and output should be shared unto the local population. If only the Philippine Government was not so corrupt, it would have actively procured such initiatives for the good of the people instead of filling their own pockets.

Quote from: tsolox on November 01, 2010, 10:26:57 AM
wake up sheeps..this is not about truth nor lie. There is no secret here. How is it possible? Now, if the general populace only know this late, then is it the fault of one person alone? We are sooo trapped with wrong sentiments and perspectives..is it because of the kind of music that we keep on listening or movies that we watched? The birth of tragedy out of the spirit of music... Hey,, we are on moving on internet-time, no time to explain..gotta catch up other stuff..

hehehe, basically :


Aut Disce Aut Discede

Quote from: tsolox on November 01, 2010, 10:26:57 AM
wake up sheeps..this is not about truth nor lie. There is no secret here. How is it possible? Now, if the general populace only know this late, then is it the fault of one person alone? We are sooo trapped with wrong sentiments and perspectives..is it because of the kind of music that we keep on listening or movies that we watched? The birth of tragedy out of the spirit of music... Hey,, we are on moving on internet-time, no time to explain..gotta catch up other stuff..

He he, lisod ning manikop tas lubog nang daan nga lim-aw unya naa pay nagsakay og panganod nga modalikyat og kutaw sa tubig ginamit ang kagingking nga wa diri wa didto... 

Really? A secret plan? Then how come it's all over the news in July 2009? And 30 mayors also signed the MOU. Secret plan you say? Yeah, Tsolox has a point. Can we blame one man why "everybody" else just seems to have stumbled upon this MOU?

Lorenzo and Islander's exchange is enlightening. But I hold the view that tagging this seaweeds plantation project a "scandal" is tainted with malice and an example of sensationalism.

I will wait how this will unfold. I reserve judgment.

Quote from: hubag bohol on November 01, 2010, 11:22:16 AM
He he, lisod ning manikop tas lubog nang daan nga lim-aw unya naa pay nagsakay og panganod nga modalikyat og kutaw sa tubig ginamit ang kagingking nga wa diri wa didto...  

Quiz a biz, je more thy blah-dezto kutaw thy liborgz
 am not a Biologi§t..~letz see the scattered (bugzay zitat)> tan-awon nato ang katag -hee³³³

     I cant takle the twizt > dli ko kazugakod sa flying code-koran  
            Goria inExcâ,¬Lzi§ Deu§  

Quote from: Scarb on November 01, 2010, 08:54:45 PM
Quiz a biz, je more thy blah-dezto kutaw thy liborgz
 am not a Biologi§t..~letz see the scattered (bugzay zitat)> tan-awon nato ang katag -hee³³³

     I cant takle the twizt > dli ko kazugakod sa flying code-koran  
            Goria inExcâ,¬Lzi§ Deu§  

He he, mao nga nanginhas na lang mi (Reply # 63)... 

Quote from: JUNAXCUBE on November 01, 2010, 08:12:12 AM
na mora nalipong na kos ininglis sa mga tawo aniing dapita.....ajaw mo ani pag-ininglis ani kay unjag usbon ni bro mike ligalig ang sitename... imbis tubagbohol mahimo na hinoon ning "bohol-answers" hehehehe. 

simple ra akong analysis aning inyong gilalisan... kon asa ang location ani naa daghan gold treasures..... hehehe frontal business lang ni..... inig kakuha sa mga treasures..... ihatag/turn-over ra na dayon sa provincial government.....

paniid mo asa dapita nagplano sila magtukod ug building kay mangoykoy ta'g una sa gold treasures hehehehe.... morag naa sa dagat ang ilang target ani... mao ni resulta sa ilang survey2 konohay sa una sa mga kadagatan ambot unsay ngan adto nga exploration kadtong controversial pod bitaw......

kakuha mo sa ponto? hahahahahahha

Kadungog ka adto sa Lila ba to..nga naay project konohay..? Front page ra pod to daw..
  unja gabi-eng dako sa dihang nakuha na nila ang hidden treasures daw
     sa kaniadtong gitagoAn sa ilang ninuno panahon sa gira..mikalit lang sila kahanaw...
         leaving the people to wait in vain. 

Quote from: hubag bohol on November 01, 2010, 09:12:11 PM
He he, mao nga nanginhas na lang mi (Reply # 63)... 

Pahimolo§ mog panginhaZ ky time will come nga ang atong hunaZan verboten na ang pag laroy² niini ahoi..

Why uh why scandal? Ky sekwet plan ra ni Aumentado? Ug karon na butyag nah?
  Sani man na..suZama nga gihinok tag baligya sa mga banyagang capitaliZta?

    Konohay motabang sila nato pag ugmad ky lagi silay naay dakong kantidad sa takwal?
       Doncha tell me wlay nagpahipi nga kahakog sa pag angkon sa dli ilaha..more fah..
          Mogazto dagway sila..just simply as that..?dia na§ pahak dortz 

Kalooy ba sa mga mangingizda nga ma etzapuerah ky lagiy naa ang mga investorizmous?
  Pasagdi ang kinaIyahan nga gihatag sa Ginoo para sa katawhan..and not only for those few..! 

Quote from: hubag bohol on November 01, 2010, 07:55:13 AM
He he, naunsa na man ni, oi, gubot pa man nis lukot. Nganong inyo man gikagubtan ang guso that lays the golden egg! Daghan jamong argumentum ad eucheuma denticulatum! Tabang, kaberks, napuga ang gamay kong utok sa sayans-sayans! Dali, manginhas sa ta!





Nanginhas si Bugsay, Vhinz, ug Botoy. Si Chongki tuas luyo ilang gitawag. Naay gasunod-sunod nga way purol, si Ondoy Bolbuhol.

ka-cute ni bolbs uy.  ngano tuod nga wa man niy purol?  gihuwaman ni bugsay?  o, natuli na ba si bolbs sa pagkuha ani nga hulagway?

Quote from: islander on November 01, 2010, 09:55:52 PM
ka-cute ni bolbs uy.  ngano tuod nga wa man niy purol?  gihuwaman ni bugsay?  o, natuli na ba si bolbs sa pagkuha ani nga hulagway?

He he, klaro nga pisot diri. Ang pangutana, kon hangtod ba karon, bwahaha! Peace, Bay Bolbs! 

Quote from: Dot (.) on November 01, 2010, 08:44:50 PM
Really? A secret plan? Then how come it's all over the news in July 2009? And 30 mayors also signed the MOU. Secret plan you say? Yeah, Tsolox has a point. Can we blame one man why "everybody" else just seems to have stumbled upon this MOU?

Lorenzo and Islander's exchange is enlightening. But I hold the view that tagging this seaweeds plantation project a "scandal" is tainted with malice and an example of sensationalism.

I will wait how this will unfold. I reserve judgment.

This changes everything. It seems that the former Governor did not act solely by himself, but with consent from municipal elected officials.

Quote from: Dot (.) on November 01, 2010, 08:44:50 PM
Really? A secret plan? Then how come it's all over the news in July 2009? And 30 mayors also signed the MOU. Secret plan you say? Yeah, Tsolox has a point. Can we blame one man why "everybody" else just seems to have stumbled upon this MOU?

Lorenzo and Islander's exchange is enlightening. But I hold the view that tagging this seaweeds plantation project a "scandal" is tainted with malice and an example of sensationalism.

I will wait how this will unfold. I reserve judgment.

yes, dot.  reserving one's judgment is the best that can be done. 

sometimes, a tilt in the treatment of a news write-up, or even the inclusion of just one word, which in this case is the word 'scandal', can already whip a storm.  all the dynamics that went into this mou and the controversy that followed will never be fully understood.  couple that with our knee-jerk distrust of our politicians, and things can truly get muddled up.  too bad the first casualty is always the truth. 

as usually happens in projects of this magnitude, the truth is bound to come out when the dust settles.  we can only hope that such truth surfaces sooner than later and is for the good of the many. 

Hala, padayon mog uswag sa inyong Digos-Digos diri, kay manumbalay pa ko...

 Padayon ang pag-uzwag sa Digo§ bizan wlay algae.guzö,lato og lukot farm ,pero naay flying mamoy (see above)

Para nako dili maayo nga puro nalang seaweed farming sa Bohol. Too much or sobra makadaot sa kinaiyahan. Example ang Pangangan island sa una perting nindota kay gamay ra kaayo ug mangroves. White and sandy ang daplin sa baybayon. Daghan kinhason,tamala(tamaa or kugitang gagmay diin kining inyong ubos nga alagad mag ukoy ukoy kung makakita ug pidla kay manikop ug tamaa unya ug dili mogawas among butangan ug hinomolang tabacco ug dahon sa hagonoy ang balay then mogawas intawon kay malipong.Daghan pud to klase klaseng langgam.Then around 1990 dihay nangabot nga mga expert kono sa island ing ingon nga magtanum ug daghan mangroves tuod man apil pa gani ko ug panguha ug seedling sa mangroves ug ing apil pa ug pananom. Halos tibook isla jud gitamnam ug mangroves.Sa nag anam ug kadagko ang bakhawan nainanay pud ug ka maot ang landscaping sa isla ang white sandy beaches karon lapok na kaayo,wala nay tamaa ug wala nay mga langgam,minos na kaayo ang kinhason nga ang giingon sa mga expert modaghan kono ang isda,modaghan ang kinhason ug nganong nangawala man lagi nuon. Para nako dili maayo ang sobra kay ug i apply ni nato sa tanang butang ang lagmit nga sangputanan kamatayon sa kinaiyahan.

I never thought for a moment that this whole issue was a secret... 

Of course, we know it never was a secret plan the fact that Bohol Chronicle was quoted as reporting the news. That alone took away the secrecy that the title portrayed. Of course, the thread poster is no expert literary expert nor a professional reporter. But he did expose an exposé that may have slipped the watchful eyes of Chronicle readers or TB watchdogs. In a way, it is good that this sort of "stuff" are being made even more public than it has been. Plus I get to hear/read Lorenzo, Isles et al's deliberations on a topic as intriguing as "pintik ni alging." That's why I enjoy TB... I get to read or hear news that I may have missed on a day to day basis. Plus I get to hear how people feel/think/express themselves. 

Maong liborgz ang kutaw ky ingon "scandal" unja "secret plan" i wonder nga naa man diay mga mayor na ming signed? 

Sani man na mga Koreaniz investor, ayaw ko ingna wlay nagpahipi nga katuyoan,lugar guzto ra jud sila motabang?

Quote from: chicogon on November 01, 2010, 03:41:33 AM

And why is it called SCANDAL? Hmmmm, maka huna2x man sad ta sa kanta ni Yoyok kabahin sa mga isda, shokoy agukoy, guso, lato nga nag disco. Arang ka iskandaloso jud tingali ani tan-awon  

Ako na lay tubag aning akong pangutana... hmmmm, mao diay.

Mo reserve diay pod kos answer sa akong pangutana karon nga nahilambigit man diay pod ang mga mayor... kay basin diay ug naay mosugod nag hubo sa iyang tapis. Abangan ang sunod nga kabanata sa Bohol "Expose" Scandal!!! 

Quote from: chicogon on November 02, 2010, 05:49:26 AM
Ako na lay tubag aning akong pangutana... hmmmm, mao diay.

Mo reserve diay pod kos answer sa akong pangutana karon nga nahilambigit man diay pod ang mga mayor... kay basin diay ug naay mosugod nag hubo sa iyang tapis. Abangan ang sunod nga kabanata sa Bohol "Expose" Scandal!!! 

Na mura Pad§ magamit na sad ang expression ni Bugzay nga gikan daw ni Pacwan,,;

Letz see the scattered > tan-awon nato ang katag ~ lagi woi hee³

(sowe dli na jud maibot nako ug dali sa utak kiniyng polonga - hiki² ko ani permi..promise) 

Quote from: chicogon on November 01, 2010, 03:30:37 AM
From the Christian perspective or point of view I am always awed (and wowed) by the amazing wonders all around us (indeed, there is a touch of heaven everywhere!). And Bohol has plenty of them, needless to say. What I'm WARY ABOUT is what people (esp. those hiding behind the facades of big corporations and masks of powerful political figures) do to these wonderful creations, and to poor people, who are basically dependent on these God-given wonders. I may sound suspicious but I can't read motives either. Based on historical facts the locals or the poor people from a particular area are usually the ones who suffer the most if and when our fears become a reality. God forbid if that happens to our beloved Bohol and to our fellow Boholanos. But it's happening everywhere!!!

To be honest, I personally liked the way the Japanese project (JAICA) did in the early 80's... they came and taught us (Boholanos and Pinoys alike) how to be good farmers. Pero gahi lang jud nig mga ulo ning mga Pinoy kay magbuot jog ilaha (WA SUNDA MGA GITUDLO SA HAPON UNSAON PAGTANOM UG HUMAY HEHEHEHE). Their investment was in helping us "learn how to fish" in our own backyard, rather than "fishing in our own backyard and bring the harvest to Japan." Meaning, kung akoy pagbut-on, I prefer if foreign investors (I wonder if you can call one if they are not for profit) teach our locals how to manage and/or make use of our natural resources using scientific ways and/or modern technology. I'm sure we haven't even tapped the best ways to celebrate (aw!) our nature's giftedness. 

I like your examples, Father Lungay. Yes, I agree with you that our Island of Bohol is indeed a paradise on Earth. With such bountiful treasures , our island and our people should be proud of the raw natural resources that we are blessed with. And with the potential for future growth. This said, I remain optimistic for Bohol's progress, especially towards a green-environmentally-friendly agenda.

In order to meet the needed volume of seaweeds to make bioethanol production cost-efficient, the Koreans would have to teach the Filipino seaweed growers how to improve seaweed growing methods.

Quote from: Dot (.) on November 07, 2010, 06:18:22 PM

In order to meet the needed volume of seaweeds to make bioethanol production cost-efficient, the Koreans would have to teach the Filipino seaweed growers how to improve seaweed growing methods.

A most splendid idea, Dot. And in order to properly introduce the importance of seaweed production in energy policy as well as for domestic growth, the Koreans could disburse and help fund for advanced classes in environmental engineering in universities in the Philippines, such as the likes of University of Bohol, Bohol Island State University, and Holy Name University. By increasing their cooperation with the Filipino people, educational institutions , aside from governmental units, can the Koreans expect positive gains in future business dealings with the Philippines and its people.

There has to be some kind of long term goals and benefits that the Philippines and the Filipino people can benefit from. Aside from supplying the Koreans with much needed petroleum ether and research work, it would be fortuitous for the Filipino people to develop seaweed plantations for domestic use as well, which can be ascertained by new technological processes in energy acquisition from Korean engineers and specialists.

If the Philippines can develop its own energy sector from this, and slowly but surely sever our heavy dependence on foreign energy importations, then surely, this is something that the whole country can benefit from.

Quote from: Dot (.) on November 07, 2010, 06:18:22 PM

In order to meet the needed volume of seaweeds to make bioethanol production cost-efficient, the Koreans would have to teach the Filipino seaweed growers how to improve seaweed growing methods.

this presumes that koreans know better about seaweed growing than filipinos.  i don't believe this.  we have a longer shoreline than south korea (ranked no. 52 in terms of shoreline length while the philippines is at no. 5), and we're supposed to know less about the bounties of our seas?  the south koreans may have the money, but it's our place and it behooves on them to learn from us, from the people who have spent a lifetime growing seaweeds and from our own marine biologists and scientists.  time to trust our own brains. 

confound it.   let's think back to the irri institute, where thais and vietnamese studied rice production.  look who's importing rice now.  in the end, it's really government policy that makes or breaks development.  that's why this bioethanol mou, its dynamics and background, needs to be checked from all angles while we reserve our suspicions or trust in its credibility and workability.  in our favor.
   

Quote from: islander on November 08, 2010, 10:40:46 AM
this presumes that koreans know better about seaweed growing than filipinos.  i don't believe this.  we have a longer shoreline than south korea (ranked no. 52 in terms of shoreline length while the philippines is at no. 5), and we're supposed to know less about the bounties of our seas?  the south koreans may have the money, but it's our place and it behooves on them to learn from us, from the people who have spent a lifetime growing seaweeds and from our own marine biologists and scientists.  time to trust our own brains. 

confound it.   let's think back to the irri institute, where thais and vietnamese studied rice production.  look who's importing rice now.  in the end, it's really government policy that makes or breaks development.  that's why this bioethanol mou, its dynamics and background, needs to be checked from all angles while we reserve our suspicions or trust in its credibility and workability.  in our favor.
   

Exchange of knowledge. Learning from each other. Mutual cooperation. Mutual benefit. Mutual respect. These should be among the parameters to be considered.

Quote from: Dot (.) on November 08, 2010, 09:40:59 PM
Exchange of knowledge. Learning from each other. Mutual cooperation. Mutual benefit. Mutual respect. These should be among the parameters to be considered.

this sounds clearer now; far from your previous post on those koreans having to "teach filipino seaweed growers..." where i as a reader failed to see the reciprocality of knowledge sourcing.  thanks. 

I don't like eating seaweeds. But when bioethanol from seaweeds
could be properly distilled, would it make a fine drink, too? 

whew! 14 pages nahurot nahog basa.  katunga ray nasabtan

Quote from: windgate on January 05, 2011, 10:51:33 AM
whew! 14 pages nahurot nahog basa.  katunga ray nasabtan

All those reading has taken the wind out of your lungs

No need to try too hard, windgate.
Understanding half of the subject is better than not understanding any part of it all.

Just don't fall into the trap of "a little knowledge is a dangerous thing"

Quote from: -<GEC348>- on January 05, 2011, 08:20:02 PM
All those reading has taken the wind out of your lungs

No need to try too hard, windgate.
Understanding half of the subject is better than not understanding any part of it all.

Just don't fall into the trap of "a little knowledge is a dangerous thing"

ka simple ra atong pangutana sa kano.  upside ug downside sa mga sagbot sa dagat sagulan man dajon ug sinayantist

Major investments, especially foreign investments, should not be held hostage to the fortunes and misfortunes of politicians. For instance, the proponents of jatropha, I heard, once out of power, have also abandoned the project wholesale, leaving the farmers who bought the idea and cultivated their lands to this long-term plant in limbo now. Likewise, when Aumentado vacated his office and was succeeded by Chatto, this seaweed project seems to have immediately combusted--even before any energy could be produced--in political controversy.

Investments have to be handled by "technocrats" or economic policy experts who will evaluate such projects on economic criteria, taking into consideration the inputs of stakeholders. This way, when their political proponents are dislodged from elective office, there will be less politicization of the issue, as has happened now, and there will be continuity in implementation.