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Author Topic: The Lamb of God  (Read 1797 times)

Lorenzo

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The Lamb of God
« on: October 18, 2010, 09:54:57 AM »
One of the characteristics of the writings of the Old Testament is the predictions of things to come in the future. In his many revelations to the men of old God continuously revealed what would happen in times to come. This is known as prophecy and it was through the prophets that God gave these revelations. As he said to the Prophet Isaiah :



      "I declared them to you from of old, before they came to pass I announced them to you." (Isaiah 48.5).




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Lorenzo

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Re: The Lamb of God
« Reply #1 on: October 18, 2010, 09:58:00 AM »
"They asked him, "Then why are you baptizing, if you are neither the Christ, nor Elijah, nor the prophet?"

"John answered them, "I baptize with water; but among you stands one Whom you do not know, even He Who comes after me, the thong of Whose sandal I am not worthy to untie."

"This took place in Bethany beyond the Jordan, where John was baptizing."

"The next day he saw Jesus coming toward him, and said, "Behold, the Lamb of God, Who takes away the sin of the world!"


--John 1:25-29

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Way Nada

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Re: The Lamb of God
« Reply #2 on: March 24, 2011, 04:29:01 PM »
"They asked him, "Then why are you baptizing, if you are neither the Christ, nor Elijah, nor the prophet?"

"John answered them, "I baptize with water; but among you stands one Whom you do not know, even He Who comes after me, the thong of Whose sandal I am not worthy to untie."

"This took place in Bethany beyond the Jordan, where John was baptizing."

"The next day he saw Jesus coming toward him, and said, "Behold, the Lamb of God, Who takes away the sin of the world!"


--John 1:25-29


When John the Baptist saw Jesus he exclaimed....

"Behold, the Lamb of God, Who takes away the sin of the world!"

The story behind this exclamation is that John the Baptist is an Essene who followed the essenic doctrine of baptism. Essenes also do not believe in the Jewish teaching that your sins are forgiven by sacrificing a firstborn lamb in the temple.

In this setting you can tell that Jesus started his ministry through baptism by John. The verse here is trying to tell us [gentiles] that the strict mosaic laws are all finished in the coming of Jesus. The new temple is Jesus Christ and all sacrifices ended with Jesus on the cross.

WN
 

 

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Lorenzo

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Re: The Lamb of God
« Reply #3 on: March 30, 2011, 10:00:41 PM »

When John the Baptist saw Jesus he exclaimed....

"Behold, the Lamb of God, Who takes away the sin of the world!"

The story behind this exclamation is that John the Baptist is an Essene who followed the essenic doctrine of baptism. Essenes also do not believe in the Jewish teaching that your sins are forgiven by sacrificing a firstborn lamb in the temple.

In this setting you can tell that Jesus started his ministry through baptism by John. The verse here is trying to tell us [gentiles] that the strict mosaic laws are all finished in the coming of Jesus. The new temple is Jesus Christ and all sacrifices ended with Jesus on the cross.

WN
 

 

Way Nada,

In regards to the fullfillment of God's Promise to send a Messiah to Israel, the Jews , themselves, have rejected Christ Jesus. It is the gentiles that accepted Christ. As it was said that Christ was "A Light unto the Gentiles and Glory to the People of Israel".

When Jews pray before the Wall of the Temple of Solomon and offer shabbat to God, do you think it is acknowledged?

I understand that the Jews are God's Chosen People and yes that God made a covenant with Abraham, however, since the Jews do not accept Jesus Christ as their Lord and Savior, will they be saved?

I'd like to know the answer to this.



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Way Nada

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Re: The Lamb of God
« Reply #4 on: March 31, 2011, 11:51:37 AM »
Lorenzo wrote:

In regards to the fullfillment of God's Promise to send a Messiah to Israel, the Jews , themselves, have rejected Christ Jesus. It is the gentiles that accepted Christ. As it was said that Christ was "A Light unto the Gentiles and Glory to the People of Israel".

Reply:

In my opinion the founding of Christianity happened because in Judaism where a closely knit society of the jews are defined; it is difficult for gentiles to integrate. The messiah is promised always to Israel in the old testament. This happens when the people of Israel is oppressed and in trouble with other nations. Moses and Cyrus the Great of Persia are messiahs to Israel because these men saved Israel from perdition. Messiah means savior and to the jews he is not God but a man... just like Cyrus the Great of Persia and Moses.

When the OT was translated into greek by 70 rabbis it was that opportune time for the greeks and hellenists to understand the hebrew writings. They found out that in the OT jews abhorred to intermingle with gentiles. The greeks and hellenists burned their eyebrows studying the hebrew scriptures until they were able to understand and write the NT in harmony with the scriptures of the jews... but making Christ the God of the gentiles.

This is where they are divided... Judaism which is a hebrew philosophy of worship and Christianity which is greek in origin. But this division did not start by just a snap of a finger. It took years for Christianity to develop since the Septuagint Version of the bible was written.

The jews until today reject Jesus as the Christ because in Judaism Christ has to fulfill a task for Israel. There are 10 tasks; first and foremost is for a Christ to rebuild the third temple. The question is; how can Jesus Christ rebuild the third temple when he proclaimed in the NT that his body is the temple and he is the lamb of God to be sacrificed?

There is no more solution to the division. Furthermore if you want to understand it clearly the NT is a discourse against Judaism because jews do not believe in Jesus Christ.     

Lorenzo wrote:

When Jews pray before the Wall of the Temple of Solomon and offer shabbat to God, do you think it is acknowledged?

Reply:

The wailing wall is the part of the temple of Solomon that was not destroyed by the Romans. In their diaspora it is the tradition of the jews to pray facing Jerusalem. Part of their prayer is; "next time in Jerusalem". It means that their prayer is for the rebuilding of the temple of Solomon and once restored all jews will be delivered up in Jerusalem praying to their God.

Lorenzo wrote:

I understand that the Jews are God's Chosen People and yes that God made a covenant with Abraham, however, since the Jews do not accept Jesus Christ as their Lord and Savior, will they be saved?

Reply:

It is also written in the NT that "salvation is for jews".The salvation of the jews is not [in my opinion] interpreted  solely in Judaism on spiritual salvation but it is more on social and political reason. For example in the bible their salvation always refers when the people of Israel are defeated and oppressed by other people a christ among the nations will come out. That is deliverance to them.

They do not believe Jesus Christ and they do not also believe in the new testament. According to them; christians hi-jacked the hebrew bible to be integrated with Christianity and to make their God also the God of christians. 

WN


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Lorenzo

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Re: The Lamb of God
« Reply #5 on: March 31, 2011, 12:46:06 PM »
In my opinion the founding of Christianity happened because in Judaism where a closely knit society of the jews are defined; it is difficult for gentiles to integrate. The messiah is promised always to Israel in the old testament. This happens when the people of Israel is oppressed and in trouble with other nations. Moses and Cyrus the Great of Persia are messiahs to Israel because these men saved Israel from perdition. Messiah means savior and to the jews he is not God but a man... just like Cyrus the Great of Persia and Moses.

When the OT was translated into greek by 70 rabbis it was that opportune time for the greeks and hellenists to understand the hebrew writings. They found out that in the OT jews abhorred to intermingle with gentiles. The greeks and hellenists burned their eyebrows studying the hebrew scriptures until they were able to understand and write the NT in harmony with the scriptures of the jews... but making Christ the God of the gentiles.

This is where they are divided... Judaism which is a hebrew philosophy of worship and Christianity which is greek in origin. But this division did not start by just a snap of a finger. It took years for Christianity to develop since the Septuagint Version of the bible was written.

The jews until today reject Jesus as the Christ because in Judaism Christ has to fulfill a task for Israel. There are 10 tasks; first and foremost is for a Christ to rebuild the third temple. The question is; how can Jesus Christ rebuild the third temple when he proclaimed in the NT that his body is the temple and he is the lamb of God to be sacrificed?

There is no more solution to the division. Furthermore if you want to understand it clearly the NT is a discourse against Judaism because jews do not believe in Jesus Christ.      

It is really very interesting that , indeed, the Jews today are adamant in their refusal of Jesus Christ. I personally know of the Orthodox / Ultra Orthodox Jews who go as far into claiming that Jesus Christ was a 'false prophet' / 'charlatan'. I was very saddened to hearing this and the Jewish view of Christians and Christian Pilgrims, Christian Missionaries in Israel to this day. A very good friend of mine who went on a Christian evangelization mission to Israel was met with stiff resistance from Jews who were condescending in their words towards Christians. Some even were throwing rocks and pushing my friend and other missionaries with him.

It is very apparent to me , after hearing of this, why Jesus Christ was so very critical of the pharisees and the saduccess of the time. The Jews who were observant of all the Laws, but were not close to God in prayer and in the spirit. This same mentality, unfortunately, is common in Israel and for most Jews (practicing Jews, that is).

You mention how the New Testament is a discourse between the Jews and the Christian Faith.

A big difference between Judaism and Christianity is an understanding of the role of the Messiah. Christians say that Jesus was Messiah in accordance with prophecy, and that his work and kingdom was spiritual. “My kingdom is not of this world.” (John 18:36) Jews, both at the time of Jesus and now, believe that the Messiah will come to set up a physical kingdom on this earth. As you said, the Jews' understanding of the Messiah is that of the physical and personal revelation of that.

What I also realize, from my reading of the Tanakh is that it does not focus on the here-after, but on the here-and-now. Jews are not worried so much on the life after death, so much as the life of the now and living life according to the Laws passed on by Moses. They have many rules and laws in how to do things, such as: what to pray , what to think about when praying, how to prepare food, how to shave, how to clean, how to act with gentiles, etc.

It is different in many levels to Christianity in that Christianity teaches on spiritual acceptance of God, a personal relationship with Jesus Christ, and on the salvation of the soul for the next life.

It is rather interesting. The Jewish concept of 'SALVATION' is the physical, the salvation of current oppression from an enemy and a nation state. The Christian concept of 'SALVATION' is of the metaphysical, the eternal soul in the here-after.

Salvation for the Jews is according to pure works. While for Christians, salvation is not by works but by grace and living that faith.


The wailing wall is the part of the temple of Solomon that was not destroyed by the Romans. In their diaspora it is the tradition of the jews to pray facing Jerusalem. Part of their prayer is; "next time in Jerusalem". It means that their prayer is for the rebuilding of the temple of Solomon and once restored all jews will be delivered up in Jerusalem praying to their God.

The Jews want a reconstruction of a second temple? This cannot occur as it would lead to an Islamic Jihad. As the Masjid Qubbat As-Sakhrah (Dome of the Rock) is located on the site of the ruins of the Jewish Temple. If the Jews were to rebuild the Temple, it would require the demolition of the Masjid Qubbat As-Sakhrah, which is one of the Holy Sites in Islam. This would lead to a massive Intifada and eventual JIHAD.


They do not believe Jesus Christ and they do not also believe in the new testament. According to them; christians hi-jacked the hebrew bible to be integrated with Christianity and to make their God also the God of christians.  


Most Jews reject Jesus Christ and the Christian Faith. Tho there are some , Messianic Jews, who believe Jesus Christ is the Messiah. Messianic Jews also worship with other Christians.

Those who reject and deny Jesus Christ have a fate. Jesus Christ tells us this in:-

There is a judge for the one who rejects me and does not accept my words; that very word which I spoke will condemn him at the last day.
-John 12: 48

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Lorenzo

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Re: The Lamb of God
« Reply #6 on: March 31, 2011, 12:57:17 PM »
Way Nada, Thank You very much for your explanations. As always, you add so much deep information about things biblical and religious discourse that I did not know about.

Thank You, again, Sir.

Lorenzo.

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Way Nada

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Re: The Lamb of God
« Reply #7 on: August 15, 2011, 12:27:17 PM »
Addendum:

[The next day he saw Jesus coming toward him, and said, "Behold, the Lamb of God, Who takes away the sin of the world!]

Reply:

This quote is from John the Baptist who do not believe in the sacrifice in the temple. The Jews believe that when a man sinned he is commanded in the mosaic law to make an animal [preferably a lamb] sacrifice in the temple  to take away his sins. In Christianity Jesus sacrifice on the cross took away all sins of the world and ended all sacrifices in the temple.



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Lorenzo

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Re: The Lamb of God
« Reply #8 on: August 16, 2011, 12:23:01 AM »
Addendum:

[The next day he saw Jesus coming toward him, and said, "Behold, the Lamb of God, Who takes away the sin of the world!]

Reply:

This quote is from John the Baptist who do not believe in the sacrifice in the temple. The Jews believe that when a man sinned he is commanded in the mosaic law to make an animal [preferably a lamb] sacrifice in the temple  to take away his sins. In Christianity Jesus sacrifice on the cross took away all sins of the world and ended all sacrifices in the temple.



Yes, indeed. As per the saying of my good friend and Catholic Priest, Fr. Mark Hoffman (my spiritual advisor during my time of discerning if priesthood was really God's plan for me), ingon si Fr. Hoffman namo (the male collegiate discerners): "Jesus Christ is the Sovereign Lord. Christ Is Heaven's Perfect Lamb."

Tinuod Gayud.

Christ Is the Perfect Lamb. That whosoever believeth in Him, and declares that Jesus is Lord and Savior, will be saved.

---

 Jesus answered, "I Am the Way and the Truth and the Life. No one comes to the Father except through me.

    -John 14:6

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