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Author Topic: Philippine Bishops On Gays And Santacruzans - MB Article Dated May 13, 2009  (Read 11147 times)

chicogon

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My friend William Lucero from Germany emailed this to me this morning. It's a Manila Bulletin article on SANTACRUZAN and GAY PARTICIPATION of it. As always, wa na sad magkisibaot hehehe. What do y'all think?

Get set, go...

+  +  +

Wednesday, May 13, 2009
 
 
Bishops roll eyes on men in gowns

The road walked on by gay men taking part in Santacruzans is paved with their good intentions, but the local Roman Catholic Church would rather that they, well, pull over.

Having homosexuals dressed up as women during the religious procession (Santacruzan) is “horrendous” and “defeats the real purpose” of the march, Manila Archbishop Gaudencio Cardinal Rosales on Tuesday said in a report released by the news website of the Catholic Bishops’ Conference of the Philippines (CBCP).

Santacruzan is derived from “Santa” (Spanish feminine for Holy) and “Cruz” (Cross). The Filipino suffix “an” apparently was added who knows when to “Cruz” to make it “Cruzan.” “Santa” also apparently was combined with “Cruzan,” later “cruzan,” ending up as “Santacruzan,” to mean an event highlighted by the search for the Holy Cross by an eminent person.

According to ancient religious history, that eminent person was Queen Helena of Constantinopole (now modern Turkey), who, along with his son Constantine The Great, looked near and far for the Holy Cross, supposedly the very one Jesus Christ died on in Calvary.

Filipinos, evidently, made a spectacle of that mission of Helena and Constantine. At first, reenactment of that search – during the merry month of May in the Philippines when flowers are supposedly abloom – was led by the “Emperatriz” (Empress, to refer to Queen Helena). Then came gay men playing the role of the Empress, with “woman” saints in tow who had been added to the entourage of the “Emperatriz,” apparently without regard for religious rhyme or reason.

That disregard, Cardinal Rosales said, does not make him “angry at gay men.” What does, he added, is “what they’re actually doing [during Santacruzans]. We should keep sacred what is sacred.”

Santacruzans of recent years featured gay men in designer gowns and, not surprisingly, were lapped up by those who watched them. They still do at present and apparently are seen as an exercise in democracy especially where representation of so-called marginalized sectors is concerned. Anyway, Queen Helena is supposed to be the Virgin Mary searching for the Holy Cross and to Jesus Christ’s mother are offered the flowers of May.

Not against gays

The bishops’ media director Msgr. Pedro Quitorio 3rd allowed that he was not against gay men taking part in Santacruzans as long as they showed “respect” to the centuries-old tradition of the search for the Holy Cross.

Showing respect, he said, was to uphold the fact that Queen Helena or the Virgin Mary is a woman and neither can be represented by men, gay or straight.

Better still, Quitorio added, for the gay community to call whatever procession they are holding by any other name, not Santacruzan, so as not to “confuse people.”

Danton Remoto, however, defended the gay men’s use of gowns during Santacruzans.

Ang Ladlad views

Remoto, the national chairman of Ang Ladlad, said that the gay men participating in Santacruzans are “transgenders [who] feel that they are women, and so in order for them to show their femininity, they wear women’s attire.”

Ang Ladlad espouses the rights of lesbians, gays, bisexuals and transgenders.

Remoto also argued that the Santacruzans are sponsored by barangay (villages), and therefore they fall under the jurisdiction of the state, not the church.

He suggested that the local Roman Catholic Church focus more on the population explosion and the economic crisis rather than “sweat the small stuff.”

“As long as we are not doing anything illegal, we should not be censored,” Remoto said.

-- Bernice Camille V. Bauzon
 


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Akong pangutana ani, kinsa kahay ma convert: ang mga b***t ba (ma santos) o ang taong-simabahan ba (ma b***t)? I love my Church and I'll do everything to protect it. I don't like talking about it either, but an issue is an issue as pointed out in this MB article. So... kamo, unsay inyong ikasulti?

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buwadsanga

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para sa akin binaboy ng mga bakla ang santacruzan. mag himo nalang sila ug laing style o ngan like - gandang harizan.

para di ma identified sa catholic practice di ba?

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raldampong

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Naa na bitaw Miss Gay Philippines di adto nalang sila magsamoksamok, di nalang unta sa mga religious activities.

Aron dili makaka owaw sa mata sa Ginoo.

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tama ka rald. gahig o man gud ning mga bakla. bujagon.... abnormality nis akong tan-aw. pasensya na mga bading sqa language ko....pagtarong mo!

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tama ka rald. gahig o man gud ning mga bakla. bujagon.... abnormality nis akong tan-aw. pasensya na mga bading sqa language ko....pagtarong mo!

Ha ha ha! Bujagon diay wad ha?

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buwadsanga

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rald ngano tawong wa manka mo hapit daris manila. inig balik mo nalang?

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Lorenzo

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I will pray for them. May the Lord God have mercy on them.

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hofelina

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The nature of Santacruzan is religious, and if in this case it is organized by the purok or whatsoever, they should have done St Christopher´s parade, so that all gays, lesbians or transe can parade whatever vanity they had to show to the public.

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bakit hofe? bayut tos St. Christopher?

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mi-eksina na sad diay ang akong mga igsoon...

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Those who are homosexual, transgendered (identity crisis) etc, they do not have to show case like that in a religious event, imho. And in conviction, I say this from the teachings we are taught--because that act is wrong. It is a sin.

There are opportunities for them to show case their sexual preference--per se in homosexual events--like gay parades. Whatever suits their liking.

I feel like the Bishops and priestly members had to evade in saying the obvious in this article. It is so very obvious in their stance--and the stance of the RCC and most of Christendom, with that.

I pray for these people. May the Lord God have mercy on them.

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Ug ni lola pas gagmay pami, hapit na jud matapos ning kalibutan... sus ning mga kabataan! Ug mga katiguwangan... di na masabtan!

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Karrong tuiga, it is now considered 'uncool' to be conservative. Na uber-liberalized na ang mga tao karoon. Abortion is now wanted, wanton cold blooded MURDER is now considered a 'right of a woman'. Kinsay right? Ang right to end a life?

Homosexuality is considered cool--superfluous open. That is nice if they live like that--May the Lord God have Mercy on Them!

I will not condemn them, but I will only bless them, and pray for them.

Ang meaning ani, what I'm trying to say-- is simple:
We, as a people, as a BODY in CHRIST JESUS, have really swayed away from the path that he laid before--by His carrying of the Cross. And death on the Cross.

People who speak the truth--and teach the truth--who profess biblical and church teachings are labeled and attacked by uper-liberals as being 'closed minded'. :)

No one is forcing you to listen. You have ears. You have eyes.

Jesus Said, "Those who have ears OUGHT to hear! Those of have eyes OUGHT to see!"

:) See the truth.

Then again, the Devil already rules this world. This earthly world is that of the Devil. It is up to the individual to fight temptation, and not regress towards the path of eternal damnation.


From my heart,
Lorenzo



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Angay jud ka himoong Catholic Defender Enz kay maajo ka ani and you have the conviction of one. You're truly an "army-strong" witness of your faith!!!

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Ug ni lola pas gagmay pami, hapit na jud matapos ning kalibutan... sus ning mga kabataan! Ug mga katiguwangan... di na masabtan!

I hear you, Father.

Pero that is the reason why Church and Church Teachings are more important now than ever.

For those who are undecided, mixed, confused about their life, the overwhelming pressure of sin and temptation--all the lies that the devil, May the Lord God Almigty REBUKE him, tries to feed us to fall into his sway.

Unfortunately, for some, they fall into that.

But it is the Truth and Teachings of the Christian Church that gives some of us--who are still open in hearing The Lord's Word. Specially the youth of today--many of them are turning to church again, not all is lost. Thanks be to God.

As always, The CHURCH has always been the lamp unto the darkness.

And the CHURCH, since the 1st century AD has professed these truths.

Salamat intawn for the Church, for keeping us and warning us, and reminding us to pray, to attend church, hear the Word of God, and to Repent.
Else not for the church, salvation is not even possible. The lies of the devil would have already clouded men's hearts--as it has already in many parts of the world.


In Jesus' Name.
I pray.

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Angay jud ka himoong Catholic Defender Enz kay maajo ka ani and you have the conviction of one. You're truly an "army-strong" witness of your faith!!!

Simple ra man ko, Father. We are called to suffer, and called to bear the Truth.
Ingoon si Jesus nato, blessed are those who suffer for my name's sake. Because of Me. Blessed are you. For yours is the Kingdom of Heaven."

I trust in that message. Si Jesus galing, he was not popular by the Jews in his own time. That is because TRUTH will never be popular. The devil clouds men's hearts and understanding.

In faith we believe. In faith we Know.

Bless you Father! Thanks for making this thread.

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usa man lagi pod ning simbahan ang wa pa gyud modawat sa hingpit kabahin sa pagpadayag sa gibati sa igsoon natong mga b***t; mao nga kining paagiha gihimo nila aron masabtan kaha o mahinayhinay og dawat sa simbahan ang papel sa mga "3rd gender" (nila pa.) sa atong katilingban.

kasagaran lang, ang agianan sa kausaban dili gyud sayon. daghan pang agian ang simbahan nga susama aning matanga sa isyu. daghan pa pod ang mahiaguman sa mga igsoon natong mga b***t, transgen ug uban pa, nga pagpamuyag ug kasuko sa ilang gibuhat. daghan pa kita'g angayng kat-onan kung unsa gyud ang angayan. kung, usisahon baya sa tinood, ang gibuhat sa mga igsoong b***t bahin aning SantaCruzan adunay kamatinod-anon; usahay lang ilang mapalabian, diin, daghan ang masupak sa pagbati sa kadgahan kaysa mahiuyon.

dili lang gyud pod unta palabian aning mga "igsoon" nato ang ilang paagi sa pagpadayag, kung unsa man gani kanang paagiha, ilabina diha na sa aspeto sa tradisyon ug tinoohan. duna'y panahon ug lugar angay niini. sa pagkakaron, dili pa ang Simbahan ang hustong lugar. nagtubo pa usab ang simbahan sa iyang pagbati bahin aning butanga, bisan tood aduna na kiniy hugot nga baruganan kabahin sa mga isyu nga may labot ang usa ka b***t.

daghan man hinoon ang mga paagi diin gidawat ang pagpanginlabot sa mga b***t, transgen, ug uban pa diha sa lihok pangsimbahan (usa niini ang pagtokod og choir. naa koy nahibal-an nga katolikong simbahan, usa sa mga choirs gimembrohan sa mga b***t ug malipayon sila); diha unta sila makasugod pagbarog sa ilang gitoohan kung naa man. diha usab makahimo og pagdialogo kung unsa ug asa ang angay pagaapilan ug dili pagaapilan. kay sa pagkatinood, kining butanga nasabtan sa Simbahan; ang pamaagi maoy dili tungod sa hinungdan nga gikasugyot nas uban.

mao ra pod ni ako.

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buwadsanga

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naa man tawon puy mga bayut nga pari...

unsaon naman ni?

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chicogon

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usa man lagi pod ning simbahan ang wa pa gyud modawat sa hingpit kabahin sa pagpadayag sa gibati sa igsoon natong mga b***t; mao nga kining paagiha gihimo nila aron masabtan kaha o mahinayhinay og dawat sa simbahan ang papel sa mga "3rd gender" (nila pa.) sa atong katilingban.

kasagaran lang, ang agianan sa kausaban dili gyud sayon. daghan pang agian ang simbahan nga susama aning matanga sa isyu. daghan pa pod ang mahiaguman sa mga igsoon natong mga b***t, transgen ug uban pa, nga pagpamuyag ug kasuko sa ilang gibuhat. daghan pa kita'g angayng kat-onan kung unsa gyud ang angayan. kung, usisahon baya sa tinood, ang gibuhat sa mga igsoong b***t bahin aning SantaCruzan adunay kamatinod-anon; usahay lang ilang mapalabian, diin, daghan ang masupak sa pagbati sa kadgahan kaysa mahiuyon.

dili lang gyud pod unta palabian aning mga "igsoon" nato ang ilang paagi sa pagpadayag, kung unsa man gani kanang paagiha, ilabina diha na sa aspeto sa tradisyon ug tinoohan. duna'y panahon ug lugar angay niini. sa pagkakaron, dili pa ang Simbahan ang hustong lugar. nagtubo pa usab ang simbahan sa iyang pagbati bahin aning butanga, bisan tood aduna na kiniy hugot nga baruganan kabahin sa mga isyu nga may labot ang usa ka b***t.

daghan man hinoon ang mga paagi diin gidawat ang pagpanginlabot sa mga b***t, transgen, ug uban pa diha sa lihok pangsimbahan (usa niini ang pagtokod og choir. naa koy nahibal-an nga katolikong simbahan, usa sa mga choirs gimembrohan sa mga b***t ug malipayon sila); diha unta sila makasugod pagbarog sa ilang gitoohan kung naa man. diha usab makahimo og pagdialogo kung unsa ug asa ang angay pagaapilan ug dili pagaapilan. kay sa pagkatinood, kining butanga nasabtan sa Simbahan; ang pamaagi maoy dili tungod sa hinungdan nga gikasugyot nas uban.

mao ra pod ni ako.

Good thinking Glace... compassion! we're all learning. Matud pa ni Hesus "I did not come here to condemn the world... but to invite them to slavation." Mao nay ginaingon sa tagawog, "nagkandarapa pa ta tanan og sabot sa usag-usa ug sa mga pamaagi nga atong nahibal-an." There are natural orders of things nga gitudlo sa atong simbahan nga basin ra maoy maka giya nato, pero igo ra jud ta sa pag invite, sama sa gebuhat sa Ginoo nga atong gesunod. Ika nga, way pugsanay. In fact, we need to pray for all and seek out the lost, like he said he came for. But how do we seek them out? I guess nag "trial and error" pa ta hangtod karon. The Church tried the harsh way before but it wasn't the best. Angay siguro pod ta moduko sa yuta sama ni Kristo ug mosuwat sa yuta: "who does not sin may cast the first stone!"

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chicogon

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naa man tawon puy mga bayut nga pari...

unsaon naman ni?

Mao na! Naa man gani mga b***t atong mga "rock and roll" idols wad, hahaha! Saonz na lang ni.

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laktud pagka sulti chic, mag pinasayloay nalang ang tanan laki, baji, bakla ug tomboy aron magka sinabtanay pero unta dili angajan ang mga bakla mo apil sa santacruzan kay kining buhata para sa pagdayeg sa Ginoo...

pwra gaba ning mga baklaa uy. ngilngig murag wa nay kahadlok sa Ginoo. ganiha sa umagang kay ganda, ila pang gi rasonan ang ilang sajop nga buhat.

tama si Lorenzo nga ang kalibutan ron buhi ug nagtuyok ang gahum ni satanas ug nakita naho ni sa mga bakla daris ato, na tv pa!

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Lorenzo

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This is a great point, Buwad, Glace and Father.

From my experience lang, and I am speaking through my own conviction--is that we all will sin. Given man jud na. God Almighty knows me and you--our ins and our outs.

All of us are sinners in the eyes of God. Romans 3:23, "For all have come short of the Glory of God."

But that does not give us the excuse to sin precipitously and lasciviously. Yes, we sin, but repentance is required, is sacrifice for that sin. By the merits of Christ, we are saved.

It is the act of homosexuality that is a sin. An Abominable sin, if we refer to Leviticus. and also tot he words of Apostle Paul.

Pero in my own opinion, instead of condemning it--we should pray for them na lang. Prayer is powerful, after all.



Christ Have Mercy on all of Us.

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usa man lagi pod ning simbahan ang wa pa gyud modawat sa hingpit kabahin sa pagpadayag sa gibati sa igsoon natong mga b***t; mao nga kining paagiha gihimo nila aron masabtan kaha o mahinayhinay og dawat sa simbahan ang papel sa mga "3rd gender" (nila pa.) sa atong katilingban.

kasagaran lang, ang agianan sa kausaban dili gyud sayon. daghan pang agian ang simbahan nga susama aning matanga sa isyu. daghan pa pod ang mahiaguman sa mga igsoon natong mga b***t, transgen ug uban pa, nga pagpamuyag ug kasuko sa ilang gibuhat. daghan pa kita'g angayng kat-onan kung unsa gyud ang angayan. kung, usisahon baya sa tinood, ang gibuhat sa mga igsoong b***t bahin aning SantaCruzan adunay kamatinod-anon; usahay lang ilang mapalabian, diin, daghan ang masupak sa pagbati sa kadgahan kaysa mahiuyon.

dili lang gyud pod unta palabian aning mga "igsoon" nato ang ilang paagi sa pagpadayag, kung unsa man gani kanang paagiha, ilabina diha na sa aspeto sa tradisyon ug tinoohan. duna'y panahon ug lugar angay niini. sa pagkakaron, dili pa ang Simbahan ang hustong lugar. nagtubo pa usab ang simbahan sa iyang pagbati bahin aning butanga, bisan tood aduna na kiniy hugot nga baruganan kabahin sa mga isyu nga may labot ang usa ka b***t.

daghan man hinoon ang mga paagi diin gidawat ang pagpanginlabot sa mga b***t, transgen, ug uban pa diha sa lihok pangsimbahan (usa niini ang pagtokod og choir. naa koy nahibal-an nga katolikong simbahan, usa sa mga choirs gimembrohan sa mga b***t ug malipayon sila); diha unta sila makasugod pagbarog sa ilang gitoohan kung naa man. diha usab makahimo og pagdialogo kung unsa ug asa ang angay pagaapilan ug dili pagaapilan. kay sa pagkatinood, kining butanga nasabtan sa Simbahan; ang pamaagi maoy dili tungod sa hinungdan nga gikasugyot nas uban.

mao ra pod ni ako.


Glace, in reading your words, I can feel that there is alot of fluidity and personal awareness in this. I respect and cherish your words, friend.



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This is a great point, Buwad, Glace and Father.

From my experience lang, and I am speaking through my own conviction--is that we all will sin. Given man jud na. God Almighty knows me and you--our ins and our outs.

All of us are sinners in the eyes of God. Romans 3:23, "For all have come short of the Glory of God."

But that does not give us the excuse to sin precipitously and lasciviously. Yes, we sin, but repentance is required, is sacrifice for that sin. By the merits of Christ, we are saved.

It is the act of homosexuality that is a sin. An Abominable sin, if we refer to Leviticus. and also tot he words of Apostle Paul.

Pero in my own opinion, instead of condemning it--we should pray for them na lang. Prayer is powerful, after all.



Christ Have Mercy on all of Us.

Amen to that Enz. Kana maoy most effective way kay arang daghana jamo nila... lagjo pod. Di madag bagtas ug di matabang'g latos tanan! Hehehe!

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hahahha, hinglatos diay pud ning mga pari Chic? pero ang uban bug ang kusion.... ahh basta lagum jud!... hehehe!

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Buwadsanga I should have said St Christopher´s street day;

The CSD is held in memory of the first big uprising of homosexuals against police assaults that took place in New York's Christopher Street in Greenwich Village on June 28, 1969. The so-called Stonewall Riots took place in the bar Stonewall Inn.

New York has celebrated the Christopher Street Liberation Day on the last Saturday of each June since 1970. The first German CSDs took place in Bremen and Berlin in 1979. Other parades before 1979 still had different names. The first documented LGBT parade in Germany was in Münster in April 1972. The first parade in Switzerland was celebrated on June 24, 1978 in Zürich and was called "Christopher-Street-Liberation-Memorial Day." ;D

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Amen to that Enz. Kana maoy most effective way kay arang daghana jamo nila... lagjo pod. Di madag bagtas ug di matabang'g latos tanan! Hehehe!

You are right, Pops.

Ampo na lang ta para nila. Para i limpyo-an sila sa ilang mga sala sa Ginoo.

"In the same way, the Spirit helps us in our weakness. We do not know what we ought to pray for, but the Spirit himself intercedes for us with groans that words cannot express"
(Romans 8:26).

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okay hofe. dapat dunay krestoper st parade sad dires pinas bisan pag mangihubo sila. wa tay paki alam pulis nay bahala nila.

ajaw lang tawon sa santacruzan....

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Amen, Buwad :)

Righteous Arm of God does not complement with perversity and celebration of Sin.

Mo ampo nalang ta for them.

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Perhaps some of us are deaf to Scripture's message in Old Testament; regarding Our Lord's stance with homosexuality.

The Lord God did not prounce around celebrating sin. Let alone the sin of homosexuality.

The twin cities of Sodom and Gamorrah were cities of such sin. The Lord God's righteous judgement is clear. He smote the cities into oblivion. All inhabitants within it, from elderly to the youngest child perished in His judgment.

---

And the Lord said, Because the cry of Sodom and Gomorrah is great, and because their sin is very grievous;
I will go down now, and see whether they have done altogether according to the cry of it, which is come unto me; and if not, I will know.
-- Genesis 18: 20-21


Then the LORD rained upon Sodom and upon Gomorrah brimstone and fire from the LORD out of heaven;
And he overthrew those cities, and all the plain, and all the inhabitants of the cities, and that which grew upon the ground.
--Genesis 19: 24-25

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Glace, in reading your words, I can feel that there is alot of fluidity and personal awareness in this. I respect and cherish your words, friend.



daghan pa og responsibilidad nga atubangon ang simbahan, enz. perhaps, being aware of this issue is one step to a deeper understanding of both position


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ayo gani kay christopher st parade, dili st christopher parade... thanks for the clarification hofe

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Di ba si St. Christopher man ang patron saint sa traveler?
Being gay is not sin but engaging on homosexual sex is a sin.Moangay ko ug b***t nga mostly feminine kusog manghinlo,kugihan,makabuhat ug buhat sa baje  pero ug uwagon na ang imo nalang mabuhat nila is  pray nga di sila manguwag makakita ug macho.
Bahin sa mga b***t nga nagsantacruzan feel na feel na gyud siguro nila nga girl sila.Ug santosonon sila nga pagkabayot nga wala magbuhat ug act nga supak sa Ginoo basin okey ra siguro.Daghan man ko kaila b***t pero tarong nga pagkabayot dili nang uwagon.Respectable gay ang tawag nako nila ani kay unsaon man di man nila gusto mabayot sila pero mogawas man gyud ang pagkabayot.

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To Glace, and Raquel,

Thank you for sharing both of your perceptive and homely message. I personally was brought to smile and felt the awesome genuine message of Raquel's post. Thanks for that.

You are right, Raquel, it is the Act that is the sin. Not the person.

Time and time again we are told about this, from our partaking of Catholic Mass. This is the same issue as Abortion. The Act of Abortion is a sin, as it is cold blooded murder. Something that the Church has fought against even since the 1st century AD.

Our catholic collegiate chaplain once told us, the members of the Collegiate Newman's Association (Catholic Association): "Pray for your brothers and sisters, and most of all pray for yourselves. For we are all all one in Body of Christ. Be aware of your actions, and the actions of others--and understand and comprehend right from wrong. Love the sinner, Hate the Sin."

All in all, the article that Father shared with us, precisely and fullheartedly, in my perception, complies with what the Holy Roman Catholic Church, and what our Protestant and Orthodox brothers and sisters fall in line with.

I think it pretty well summarizes with the overall viewpoint of Christendom.




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Most gay in philippines is much different from gay here in U.S . If a person here in U.S tell you he/she is gay it means they actually doing the homosexual perverted act. Like the pro-abortion people who march on the street rallying they sometimes so nasty,angry and you name it.They want equal right but sad thing is they wanna be more than equal.They thrive on discriminated status.
Most gay in philippines wala nila tuyua nga mabayot sila.They call it inborn hahahah.They were very hardworking people,they go church,they know it's sin to do a homosexual act.For me they were more feminine than gay I think.

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chicogon

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Most gay in philippines is much different from gay here in U.S . If a person here in U.S tell you he/she is gay it means they actually doing the homosexual perverted act. Like the pro-abortion people who march on the street rallying they sometimes so nasty,angry and you name it.They want equal right but sad thing is they wanna be more than equal.They thrive on discriminated status.
Most gay in philippines wala nila tuyua nga mabayot sila.They call it inborn hahahah.They were very hardworking people,they go church,they know it's sin to do a homosexual act.For me they were more feminine than gay I think.

Ingon pa sa Boy Scout na song RAQ, "they are happy and gay (as in alegre)." Hehehe. Karon kay wa nay mokanta ani na song.

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Hehehe ug naa pay labaw sa Binaboy Wad mao na na sila ba? unta ila butang sa utok nila na hiwalay jud na bugas ug tipasi, aju na pilpilon Wad
para sa akin binaboy ng mga bakla ang santacruzan. mag himo nalang sila ug laing style o ngan like - gandang harizan.

para di ma identified sa catholic practice di ba?

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Sin is Sin.

Just pray for them na lang. Even if they are gay, lesbian, or heterosexual, if you believe in your heart and your soul that Jesus died for you, to save you, and are confident in HIS SAVING GRACE, then your confidence is well kept!

So if you are a sinner, and you recognize it, know that you sin, pray for yourself.

Does not matter what the sin is. Sin Is Sin.

Again, God Bless them, May the Lord God have mercy on them.




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mao gyud niy hagit sa simbahan ug katilingban nga buhi sa pagtoo ug pagpangilabot. daghang moapil ug daghang sab ang magbantay sa sayop niadtong nang-apil. diri bitaw, wa man ning ingon ani nga aktibidadis kay way-paki na ang mga tawo kabahin sa kalihukang pangsimbahan, busa way gubot, wa poy lami. nindot pa gud ta sa atoa, kay buhi pa kaayo ang mga tawo sa sama aning mga butanga.

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Karrong tuiga, it is now considered 'uncool' to be conservative. Na uber-liberalized na ang mga tao karoon. Abortion is now wanted, wanton cold blooded MURDER is now considered a 'right of a woman'. Kinsay right? Ang right to end a life?



If i tell you guys that i had one abortion, would you all say im a sinner? if the procedure was badly needed  t0 save my health? if that would make me a sinner then i should enjoy my eternal life in hell! hahahhaha



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If i tell you guys that i had one abortion, would you all say im a sinner? if the procedure was badly needed  t0 save my health? if that would make me a sinner then i should enjoy my eternal life in hell! hahahhaha



Mao jud nay panudlo sa "ato" nga simbahan MDB nga ang atong kaluwasan nag-agad ra gyod sa Ginoo, sa iyang pagkamaloloy-on, dili sa atong achievements, accomplishments, mga buhat or because we deserve it, even if we sometimes tend to think so. Si Hesus na bitaw niingon nga "I didn't come here to condemn the world but that the world might be saved through "HIM".... "you have already my "WORD" who will be your judge." Ug bisan pa ana na panultion, still, the prerogative to judge in not on "US" but God's... ambot unsay lisod sabton ana nga usa ramay sugo sa Ginoo... go and proclaim the mercy and love of God and summon His disciples "love one another as I have loved you." I don't remember Him telling any of His disciples at any time nga "palihog kuno kog bantay sa mga tawo kung kinsa nilay "good boys & girls" ug kinsa pod tong "naughty & bad." Si Santa Claus nuon sa usa ka Christmas carol bwahahaha.

Ug unsa man diay love nga gipakita sa Ginoo, di ba magpakamatay man para sa iyang mga isig kaingon, even His enemies and persecutors. Aguy! He died for all of us even when we were His enemies because of our sins. Ambot nganong motipas man jud ta, even aning aspetoha sa Biblia.  Di ba ingon man pod siya: "Do not judge and you will not be judged?"

So where do we stand? Unsa man jud ato pagtoo, we're really better people or less evil than these "least of our brethren?" Aguy! Believe it or not, the greatets sin in the world is the sin of PRIDE coz we always think - whether we admit/realize/know it or not - that the world revolves around us or the self. We're (our self) the measure of everything that's good and right (hasta gani mga gagmay bata atong kasab-an kay di sila mo act like our "self" in certain situations. It's always the "other" person who's imperfect and less loved by God and not us/self. Sometimes we think that way individually or as group or as a Church.

Moa jud nay aong kahadlokan kung wa nako aning kalibutana and I'll be facing my JUDGE, because by then, I'll be walking "the last mile, baby" matud pag professor nako sa DOGMA. It's all between me and God, dili ku gunsay gebuhat sa uban. Wew!

And I'll never forget what Jesus said (to the judgmental crowd): mauna pa nato mga k******n, mga borikat, mga b***t, mga tomboy, mga aditz2x, mga kriminal, ug ubang mga makasasa ngadto sa gingharian sa Diyos."
I wonder why He said that. Huh!

Did He really say that? You bet!!!

Gisampolan paman gani tas Ginoo didto sa krus... hayaha sa kawaton oy!

You'll never know how God's grace works!!!



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If i tell you guys that i had one abortion, would you all say im a sinner? if the procedure was badly needed  t0 save my health? if that would make me a sinner then i should enjoy my eternal life in hell! hahahhaha



I speak not of my own accord, but by what we are taught. And your actions are your own Ate Belle. The act of Abortion is murder and is a Sin. Are we here to judge, no. That is something a person has to work out with God. For everyone will sin, Ate Belle. A sin is a sin. But the beauty of Salvation is that there is absolution of sin. Isn't it beautiful?

We are not calling to condemn, but to pray.

God Bless You, Ate Belle.

A Brother In Christ,
Bran

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Mao jud nay panudlo sa "ato" nga simbahan MDB nga ang atong kaluwasan nag-agad ra gyod sa Ginoo, sa iyang pagkamaloloy-on, dili sa atong achievements, accomplishments, mga buhat or because we deserve it, even if we sometimes tend to think so. Si Hesus na bitaw niingon nga "I didn't come here to condemn the world but that the world might be saved through "HIM".... "you have already my "WORD" who will be your judge." Ug bisan pa ana na panultion, still, the prerogative to judge in not on "US" but God's... ambot unsay lisod sabton ana nga usa ramay sugo sa Ginoo... go and proclaim the mercy and love of God and summon His disciples "love one another as I have loved you." I don't remember Him telling any of His disciples at any time nga "palihog kuno kog bantay sa mga tawo kung kinsa nilay "good boys & girls" ug kinsa pod tong "naughty & bad." Si Santa Claus nuon sa usa ka Christmas carol bwahahaha.

Ug unsa man diay love nga gipakita sa Ginoo, di ba magpakamatay man para sa iyang mga isig kaingon, even His enemies and persecutors. Aguy! He died for all of us even when we were His enemies because of our sins. Ambot nganong motipas man jud ta, even aning aspetoha sa Biblia.  Di ba ingon man pod siya: "Do not judge and you will not be judged?"

So where do we stand? Unsa man jud ato pagtoo, we're really better people or less evil than these "least of our brethren?" Aguy! Believe it or not, the greatets sin in the world is the sin of PRIDE coz we always think - whether we admit/realize/know it or not - that the world revolves around us or the self. We're (our self) the measure of everything that's good and right (hasta gani mga gagmay bata atong kasab-an kay di sila mo act like our "self" in certain situations. It's always the "other" person who's imperfect and less loved by God and not us/self. Sometimes we think that way individually or as group or as a Church.

Moa jud nay aong kahadlokan kung wa nako aning kalibutana and I'll be facing my JUDGE, because by then, I'll be walking "the last mile, baby" matud pag professor nako sa DOGMA. It's all between me and God, dili ku gunsay gebuhat sa uban. Wew!

And I'll never forget what Jesus said (to the judgmental crowd): mauna pa nato mga k******n, mga borikat, mga b***t, mga tomboy, mga aditz2x, mga kriminal, ug ubang mga makasasa ngadto sa gingharian sa Diyos."
I wonder why He said that. Huh!

Did He really say that? You bet!!!

Gisampolan paman gani tas Ginoo didto sa krus... hayaha sa kawaton oy!

You'll never know how God's grace works!!!



Well Said, Father L!

We are not here to condemn, nor are we here to negate, but to share the truth. What kind of brother would I be if I told only what sounded good to the ear and yet deep in my heart and to BIBLICAL and CHURCH teaching, is considered wrong?

So we, being Brothers and Sisters, should be truthful to one another, and not merely tell them something--just because it 'sounds good', yet betray all the teachings that we hold true--and which resound in our hearts.

To do so, is what Jesus Christ OUR LORD reminds us is an act of Pharisees. Hypocrites.

We are here to support one another. Because WE ARE ALL SINNERS.  :)
You, Myself, from the priests, to the ministers, to the laymen, to everyone.
But we are in this together. So we are not only to hear TRUTH, but to share TRUTH.


God Bless~

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I think it is a different matter when abortion is necessary due to health-compromising situation as compared to abortion just because a person doesn't want to deal with the responsibility.

Just to 'erase'  a life.

Think about it. I pray for them lang.

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To compliment what Father L said, which I think was a beautiful and spiritual statement;


There is none of us in this world that is born without sin. None. Romans 3:23 , "For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God."

But in accordance to the teachings we have been given, we are also to honor and remember the commandments of Moses and the teachings professed to us by the prophets of the Old Testament. And we are not to forget those.

Do you think Jesus Christ came to destroy the laws? No, guys! He came not to destroy, but to FULFILL! Mathew 5: 17-19, " Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfill. For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

And God's Law, "Thou Shall Not Kill."
Part na of the 10 commandments. Part of the Law.

Justified ni in Faith, and in Church and Biblical Teachings. :)

God Bless you All!


Yours In Christ,
Lorenzo


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glacier_71

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Mao jud nay panudlo sa "ato" nga simbahan MDB nga ang atong kaluwasan nag-agad ra gyod sa Ginoo, sa iyang pagkamaloloy-on, dili sa atong achievements, accomplishments, mga buhat or because we deserve it, even if we sometimes tend to think so. Si Hesus na bitaw niingon nga "I didn't come here to condemn the world but that the world might be saved through "HIM".... "you have already my "WORD" who will be your judge." Ug bisan pa ana na panultion, still, the prerogative to judge in not on "US" but God's... ambot unsay lisod sabton ana nga usa ramay sugo sa Ginoo... go and proclaim the mercy and love of God and summon His disciples "love one another as I have loved you." I don't remember Him telling any of His disciples at any time nga "palihog kuno kog bantay sa mga tawo kung kinsa nilay "good boys & girls" ug kinsa pod tong "naughty & bad." Si Santa Claus nuon sa usa ka Christmas carol bwahahaha.

Ug unsa man diay love nga gipakita sa Ginoo, di ba magpakamatay man para sa iyang mga isig kaingon, even His enemies and persecutors. Aguy! He died for all of us even when we were His enemies because of our sins. Ambot nganong motipas man jud ta, even aning aspetoha sa Biblia.  Di ba ingon man pod siya: "Do not judge and you will not be judged?"

So where do we stand? Unsa man jud ato pagtoo, we're really better people or less evil than these "least of our brethren?" Aguy! Believe it or not, the greatets sin in the world is the sin of PRIDE coz we always think - whether we admit/realize/know it or not - that the world revolves around us or the self. We're (our self) the measure of everything that's good and right (hasta gani mga gagmay bata atong kasab-an kay di sila mo act like our "self" in certain situations. It's always the "other" person who's imperfect and less loved by God and not us/self. Sometimes we think that way individually or as group or as a Church.

Moa jud nay aong kahadlokan kung wa nako aning kalibutana and I'll be facing my JUDGE, because by then, I'll be walking "the last mile, baby" matud pag professor nako sa DOGMA. It's all between me and God, dili ku gunsay gebuhat sa uban. Wew!

And I'll never forget what Jesus said (to the judgmental crowd): mauna pa nato mga k******n, mga borikat, mga b***t, mga tomboy, mga aditz2x, mga kriminal, ug ubang mga makasasa ngadto sa gingharian sa Diyos."
I wonder why He said that. Huh!

Did He really say that? You bet!!!

Gisampolan paman gani tas Ginoo didto sa krus... hayaha sa kawaton oy!

You'll never know how God's grace works!!!



maayong pamalandong, chico.

relativism is the new challenge of the day. mag-unsa na lang kung wa nay absolute truth kay gusto nas tawo siya na ang mohukom sa iyang mga desisyon...


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Lorenzo

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Glacier, and to others,

I want to share a word of advice that I was given by His Eminence, Bishop Donald Trautman, who is the Bishop of the Diocese of Erie, Pennsylvania.

In the confirmatory mass in Easter 2007, as I was part of the new batch of Roman Catholics that were confirmed into the Church --along with my sister, Lorraine. He preached on the topic of : The Fire of Truth, and spreading that fire in our hearts of the Love of Christ to those whom we come in contact with.

What he said to us was beatiful. I forget the entire sermon because it was so beautiful and yet eloquently long. But in my primitive simplicity, what I got out of it was this:

"Be firm in the Truth that you have been confirmed in. For the fire that burns in your heart, is not of your own understanding, but that of the Holy Spirit. Who lives within you. Who proceeds from the Father and the Son."

Bishop Donald Trautman told us and reminded us of the parable of the 'Lamp of the World' that Jesus spoke about. That we, his elect, the strong and fervent faithful--who live and hold strong to the teachings we have been taught--and profess--should not hid our lamps, but shine it out unto the darkness.

Ang meaning ani, is be confident and firm in the teachings of the Holy Church, and not be embarassed or scared to profess it--which comes not from our own mouths--but by the Holy Spirit who guides and straightens even our won bodies and our spiritual frailties.

In this age of uber secularaizaiton, when the teachings of the Church are constantly being attacked, when Christian morality and Christian ethics is being attacked by forces not of The Lord's, we---who are Soldiers of Christ--should not bear down to lies and untruths. But like Angel Michael, have our breastplate of Faith and Truth. And not be afraid to speak and defend the Faith!

Especially in these turbulent times.

Your Brother in Christ,
Lorenzo

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Ye are the light of the world.  A city that is set on a hill cannot be hid. Neither do men light a candle, and put it under a bushel, but on a candlestick; and it giveth light unto all that are in the house. Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven.

--Matthew 5:14-16

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Lorenzo

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The answer to this thread's question can be found in the 1st book of Corinthians:


Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men who practice homosexuality, nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God. And such were some of you. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.

-1 Corinthians 6: 9-11

--

My message to everyone, let us pray for them. That is all we can do, is to pray for them.



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chicogon

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The answer to this thread's question can be found in the 1st book of Corinthians:


Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men who practice homosexuality, nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God. And such were some of you. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.

-1 Corinthians 6: 9-11

--

My message to everyone, let us pray for them. That is all we can do, is to pray for them.



True. By themselves, no one (meaning nobody) will inherit the Kingdom of God but by the grace and mercy of God who died for all our sins. Dili lang sila but kitang tanan. So kung sabton nato, hasta pod ta apil sa dili makasud sa gingharian sa Dios... but fortunately duna tay Ginoo who willingly atoned for the human race, sa iyang mga sala... and so we were all washed by the blood of His sacrifice. Mao bitaw sa Ebanghelyo ni John, Jesus assured us "I will not lose any of those God gave to me or who come to me because it's the will of the one who sent me." And so who are we to say we're guaranteed salvation while the others are not (that is some confidence or faith!)... when that is not even the will of the heavenly Father? The Bible said His will/desire is for ALL? Does that mean we know His ways more than He does. After all, His ways are not our ways and He works in some mysterious ways that we will never understand, even for those who claim to have the faith. I know I speak only for myself... but I'll never question what I was taught is God's will. There's no question it was Jesus who said it's God will (look it up in John's gospel). So how can we claim to know so much other than what Jesus taught us. Hmmm.

Oh, one more thing, if Jesus can extend himself so much so as to die for us even when we were His enemies because of our sins, I wonder why can't we extend ourselves a little bit even if only as far as not  to judge one another? Did He say that again? You bet He did! After all Jesus saves!!!

Sa minarong pagkasulti - my cousin uses this argument all the time (and He's got a point). Kung moundang na si Jesus ug pasayloa sa mga nakasa o di na siya ganahan mo save nato kay gehaguan na siya sa atong kagahig ulo... you might as well start looking for a real God. Hehehe.

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Lorenzo

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Hi Father,

That is exactly what I point to, that all are sinners and as is told to us in Romans 3:23.
But it is in salvation in the firm faith of Christ's salvation for those who believe in Him.
We sin, because we are all born sinners. What I was taught and what I have learned from the Newman Association communion is:

Salvation comes at a price. Jesus' death on the cross was the complete sign and proof of salvation. So as we repent for our sins--we should also understand and digest what we did wrong. It can be despairing, taking the Lord's name in vain, sexual promiscuity, making fun of one another etc, stealing, lying, etc.

We remember our sins and we ask for atonement because part of responsibility of atonment is recognize our faults. And not merely excusing.

Yes, Father, you are very right. That we cannot ever understand the mind of The Lord God. For so long as the heavens are above the earth, it is impossible to know how the Lord works or how He thinks. But it is in our faith that he forgives each and everyone of us of our sins--that we can be confident in.

Mao na that is why it is best to pray for one another. As we pray for ourselves for our own wicked and sinful iniquities--i myself am a pitiful sinner. So should we also pray for our brother and sisters.

Ingon to si Fr. Mark namo back in collegiate catholic communion, "Recognize your sins, know what you did wrong, and faithfully atone for your sins. There is no such thing as Sin Regular or Sin Lite. Sin is a Sin."
Father Mark would joke around like that with us--to break the serious tone that he was preaching to us.


Thanks Father for your wise words. Salamat kaayo.
Bran

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Lorenzo

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I love and am inspired how you worded that out, Father R. You put into modern text the sayings of 1 Corinthians 6: 9-11.

Amen!

In that saying, the Apostles were talking about how we are all sinners--either it in the sin of sexual promiscuity, pride, anger, lust, adultery, thievery---etc, as sinners we cannot enter the Kingdom of Heaven, but that can be fixed.

1 Corinthians 6: 9-11 is telling us that as sinners---we are purified in the Grace and Love of Christ, through faith in Him. So inasmuch as he died for our sins to secure our salvation, our faith in Jesus and our atonement absolves our own sins. Whatever it is. Only God knows.

Thanks Father R, for breaking down the verse of 1 Corinthians 6: 9-11 into something we can easily understand.

:D

Thanks, Pops!

Bran

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chicogon

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Please don't get me wrong Enz, I agree with all that you are saying, the two previous ones. I just added my compassionate reflection (kuno) based on all the homilies that I give when I do funerals in the last 25 years, sometimes to people who I have no clue about what kind of life they lived when they were alive, but even more so to people I know who never practiced what we termed as "Catholic practices." All I can say in those/these teachable moments are words of comfort and the assurance that for some reason that's beyond us we can never under estimate the power and mercy of our God. But not stop short of encouraging them or inviting them to partake in God's invitation itself to find life in Him: after all He is what we call "the way, the truth and the life" and that "no one comes to the Father except through Him." And that apart from the "true" vine, which branch or leaf will not wither and die? Hehehe.

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Lorenzo

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Beautiful.

Sometimes, my tone can be a bit fervent evangelical at times, forgive me lang if ma sensitve ang tawo, but when it comes to these things, Father--i can feel the Spirit and i cannot help but give reflection. Dili man intended na ahoang point of view to reprimand, but to offer lang a point of view that many of us--including myself--like to evade and veer away from. Ako galing ma hadlok ko when I search the scriptures--kai guilty man ko of the sins mentioned. And natural raman kai kita tanan are susceptible of these sins. True ka father! So true imung words. But from my own study sa bibliya ug discourse ni Fr. Mark and other catholic-christianos--we shouldn't be afraid or ma sakitan to hear these kinds of words. Warnings and reprimandings from Old Testament and New Testament. Because ingoon to si Fr. Mark namo, "God The Father reprimands us not because he hates us, but because he Loves us. What kind of father would not reprimand His children whom he loves dearly?"

Mao na ahong view concerning this topic.

God Bless you Father, i hold your words close to my heart. You are one of the Sheppards of Christ. God Bless your compassion, Fr!
Salamat Kaayo.

Bran

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chicogon

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 ;D

"Kidding" or "ngiit" aside, mo amen jud ko nimo sa imong pagka lig-on sa baruganan! Amen ko be?!!

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Lorenzo

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haha! Father, mo hatag ko nimo ug Mano-Po, kai imung words are profound!


You are an inspiration ;D

To God be the Glory!!

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Naa na bitaw Miss Gay Philippines di adto nalang sila magsamoksamok, di nalang unta sa mga religious activities.

Aron dili makaka owaw sa mata sa Ginoo.

I believe in the eyes of our Almighty....we are all the same! Iya kitang tanang binuhat, di ba?
I think...he never reject or decline any actions praising him and asking his blessing, right? Ang naka-apan lang sa mga "b***t kay over acting ni sila".

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Lorenzo

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Kamusta Pare!

Welcome to the discussion.

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Bambi

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naa man tawon puy mga bayut nga pari...

unsaon naman ni?

lisod na ug mo-ingon ang atong Ginoo.. dili ko nimo kay b***t ka...ma convicted siya nga racist! Sorry God!

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Bambi

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Kamusta Pare!

Welcome to the discussion.
[/quote

 OT: Am fine...Hope you  too! How is your study? How's your wonderful family? How is America?

Have just read this thread....interesting.  I will finish to read all comments pa.

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david

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ngano kaha pod nga mga laki man ang hilig ni kristo wa man apili og chicks ang membro sa iyang desipolo

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hmmmmm

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Naa man, David.

The greatest of all women who followed the disciples after Christ' death was our own Mama Mary. :)

Si Mama Mary :)

And si Mary of Magdalene, after Christ saved her from would-be stoners, she followed him like all the other Apostles. She washed the foot of Christ and was there with Mama Mary in the Crucifixion.

The Mothers and Sisters--are examples of living the lives like Mama Mary.
The sisters of Charity and many other nunneries around the world--do the Will of God.

God Bless!

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Lorenzo

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The Sisters of Charity, who are founded by Blessed Mother Teresa, are examples of the disciples of Christ. They are responsible for the housing of hundreds of thousands of Indian foster children, and running orphanages. Saving thousands of Indian children--who would have died in poverty and disease had it not been for the Grace of God.

The Evangelization of India and the spreading of the Word of God has been the sole goal of the Sisters of Charity. Clothing, Feeding, and Healing the Poor.




Loving as Mama Mary Loved the Baby Jesus.  :)


Spreading the Word and Baptizing in the FAITH!  :)


Caring and loving those who have no one to care and love them.
Consolation of Christ.

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