Story of Lucifer – His Status
What kind of iniquity was found of him? In the book of Ezekiel, God has let us stand with Him at the very beginning, to see the origin and the creation of Satan. But, why does God say this? What is this iniquity? We must look back to Isaiah 14:12, which tells us of Lucifer/Satan's choice. "I will ascend to heaven; I will raise my throne above the stars of God; I will sit on the mount of assembly on the heights of Zaphon; I will ascend to the tops of the clouds, I will make myself like the Most High." Did you notice in this passage all of the "I wills. " He said he would exalt his throne above the stars of God. The word "stars" here does not refer to what we see in the night sky. It refers to the angels of God. In other words, "I will take over heaven, I will be God." That is Lucifer/Satan's sin and that is the iniquity that was found in him. He does not want to be God's servant. He does not want to do what he was created to do. He wants to be served and there are millions who have chosen to do just that; serve him. They have listened to his lies and chosen to follow him. Eve believed the lie that she would be like God. The reason Lucifer/Satan tempted her with that was because it is the very thing that he wants -- to be God.

more details on http://www.allaboutgod.com/story-of-lucifer.htm

sa Islam wala man ang term na fallen angels kay according to The Noble Quran, angels were created by God without the gift of freewill. They only serve and obey the will of God. dili sila maka bo-ot2x ug ilaha. Mas maayo pa ang tao kay naa pay freewill.

I second the motion A.

http://www.allaboutgod.com/story-of-lucifer.htm[/url]

sa Islam wala man ang term na fallen angels kay according to The Noble Quran, angels were created by God without the gift of freewill. They only serve and obey the will of God. dili sila maka bo-ot2x ug ilaha. Mas maayo pa ang tao kay naa pay freewill.

Mao ba, Anastacio? Thanks for the answer, interesting pood ang explanation gi hatag nimo in reference to the Q'uran's stance on the topic.

It is quite puzzling sometimes when one reads Isaiah 14, which states, (In reference to what Lucifer Declared in Heaven) "But you said in your heart, I will ascend to heaven; I will raise my throne above the stars of God, and I will sit on the mount of assembly in the recesses of the north. I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will make myself like the Most High."

And The Lord responded, as what Isaiah 14:15 reveals to us, "Nevertheless you will be thrust down to Sheol, to the recesses of the pit."

For me, reading this particular verse is puzzling. Because one understands that the Angel Lucifer already saw the face of God, and was given the beatific vision. Complete and Ultimate bliss in communion with The Almighty. Yet he was able to turn away from God? He rejected Complete and Eternal Communion with The Most High?

We even witness this in reading Ezekiel 28, "You were the anointed cherub who covers, and I placed you there, you were on the holy mountain of God; you walked in the midst of the stones of fire. You were blameless in your ways from the day you were created, until unrighteousness was found in you."

as well as in Rev. 12:4, 9, "Even though created beautiful and good, Satan, the top angel of God fell into sin and took a third of the other angels with him."

And it is in this particular passage that we see the entrance of Sin into the world. The Rebellion of Lucifer against The Most High. Lucifer even went far enough to tempt Adam and Eve, whom The Lord created in His own image.

But my question, or rhetorical question if I may, is that why was Lucifer able to reject God? He was given the beautific vision of The Most High. And was the First to be created. What compelled Lucifer to rebel against His Father in Heaven? And, accordingly, why did not The Most High dispose of Lucifer with a mere thought? Did He know that this will come to pass? Does Lucifer and His Legion of Fallen Angels know that their time is nigh? That their doom has been secured by the coming of the Christ?

I do know that after the war in Heaven, after Archangel Michael, the Prince of the Heavenly Host thrust Lucifer, the Most abominable, Most Unclean, Most Unrighteous, Father of Lies, Hate Incarnate, Most Untrue--that all the remaining Angels were given the beatific vision. And therefore are linked to The Almighty. Theirs is the responsibility of Exalting The Most High for Everlasting Time.

Tito Benne, Ma'am Lee, Brod Mike, can you guys please answer some of my questions.

Cheers,

Sure! unsa man ngalan sa Choir?

Amen trio? hahaha

i always love to be in a choir pero wa jud na matuman nga dream.

one day matuman na jud na when you will organize that...

Genesis 17[/b]

10 This is my covenant with you and your descendants after you, the covenant you are to keep: Every male among you shall be circumcised. 11 You are to undergo circumcision, and it will be the sign of the covenant between me and you. 12 For the generations to come every male among you who is eight days old must be circumcised, including those born in your household or bought with money from a foreigner— those who are not your offspring.

Circumcision was an external sign of a spiritual relationship, which set the Jews apart from the rest of mankind as the chosen people of God. However, history showed that the Jewish people became more and more fixated to the external signs, statutes, and ceremonies rather than their inward spirituality. Of course, this tendency is not peculiar to the Jews but resonates to human nature in general. Rather than facing our frailties, we explain away our violative tendencies through legalism.

The dispensation of grace, as contrasted to that of law, ushered in by Christ in the New Testament restores the pre-eminence of our relationship to God in our practice of spirituality. For instance, Christ has redefined the legalistic frames of such common offenses as "adultery" and "murder." We commit adultery not only when we lie in bed with someone not our spouse but also when we look at another person with lust. We commit murder not only when we kill a person by intent but also when we harbor deep hatred in our hearts towards him.

Thus, as with the Jews, we can no longer use physical circumcision as a blanket affirmation of our belongingness to God. Note that even in the Old Testament, physical circumcision was meant to come together with circumcision of our hearts, as was commanded in Deuteronomy 10 and 30. Unless our hearts are marked as of God, it does not matter much if we are externally marked as God's people in circumcision. We cannot use religious appearances in place of real spirituality of the heart.

Paul preached this in his letter to the Romans:

Romans 2
29No, a man is a Jew if he is one inwardly; and circumcision is circumcision of the heart, by the Spirit, not by the written code. Such a man's praise is not from men, but from God.

Therefore, physical circumcision is not a necessary and essential condition for salvation, but spiritual circumcision is.

Excellent points, Tito Benne.

I actually stumbled on a particular passage in Jeremiah 9:24-25 which literally dictates the worthless nature of circumcission. It supports your points, Tito.

The passage itself, "See, days are coming, says the Lord, when I will demand an account of all those circumcised in their flesh. Egypt and Judah, Edom and the Amonites, Mab and the desert dwellers who shave their temples. For all these nations, like the whole house of Israel, are uncircumcised in heart.


The WORD of the Lord

Jeremiah 9:24-25[/B] which literally dictates the worthless nature of circumcission. It supports your points, Tito.

The passage itself, "See, days are coming, says the Lord, when I will demand an account of all those circumcised in their flesh. Egypt and Judah, Edom and the Amonites, Mab and the desert dwellers who shave their temples. For all these nations, like the whole house of Israel, are uncircumcised in heart.


The WORD of the Lord


Circumcision is a Jewish tradition. This rite of circumcision is a mark that you are a Jew. In olden times people are uncircumcised so the Jews to distinguish themselves as the chosen people of God so they branded themselves by circumcision. This look like paganistic because you are  hurting a person but now we Christians accept this tradition or else you will be a 'baho ug oten kay wa kay tuli daghan ka ug tiktik'.

What does the Bible say about God's Promise to Israel in regards to the Holy Land?

Solid answer to this question can be found in Jeremiah 31.

I will share it:


    The days are coming, says the LORD, when I will seed the house of Israel and the house of Judah with the seed of man and the seed of beast.
28
    As I once watched over them to uproot and pull down, to destroy, to ruin, and to harm, so I will watch over them to build and to plant, says the LORD.
29
    In those days they shall no longer say, "The fathers ate unripe grapes, and the children's teeth are set on edge,"
30
    but through his own fault only shall anyone die: the teeth of him who eats the unripe grapes shall be set on edge.
31
    The days are coming, says the LORD, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and the house of Judah.
32
    It will not be like the covenant I made with their fathers the day I took them by the hand to lead them forth from the land of Egypt; for they broke my covenant and I had to show myself their master, says the LORD.
33
    But this is the covenant which I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the LORD. I will place my law within them, and write it upon their hearts; I will be their God, and they shall be my people.
34
    No longer will they have need to teach their friends and kinsmen how to know the LORD. All, from least to greatest, shall know me, says the LORD, for I will forgive their evildoing and remember their sin no more.
35
    Thus says the LORD, He who gives the sun to light the day, moon and stars to light the night; Who stirs up the sea till its waves roar, whose name is LORD of hosts:
36
    If ever these natural laws give way in spite of me, says the LORD, Then shall the race of Israel cease as a nation before me forever.
37
    Thus says the LORD: If the heavens on high can be measured, or the foundations below the earth be sounded, Then will I cast off the whole race of Israel because of all they have done, says the LORD.
38
    The days are coming, says the LORD, when the city shall be rebuilt as the LORD'S, from the Tower of Hananel to the Corner Gate.
39
    The measuring line shall be stretched from there straight to the hill Gareb and then turn to Goah.
40
    The whole valley of corpses and ashes, all the slopes toward the Kidron Valley, as far as the corner of the Horse Gate at the east, shall be holy to the LORD. Never again shall the city be rooted up or thrown down.

--Jeremiah 31: 27-40

Way Nada,

We have to take into consideration the historiography of the setting and time when this written. Prophet Jeremiah lived in around 600 BC, and during that time, Israel was sacked and invaded by Babylon under the reign of Emperor Nebuchadnezzar. The Babylonians, upon storming through the gates of Jerusalem not only eradicated the defense, but also leveled the Jewish Temple that was constructed by Kings David and Solomon.

It is apparent to us that Prophet Jeremiah was sent to the people of Israel, to lament over the sins of Israel to warrant the judgment of God. Yet, in accordance to the said and aforementioned scriptural reference, they were set free.

The rule of Babylon and its yolk over Judea ended by the coming of King Cyrus the Great of Persia, which was mentioned in scripture:

And I quote from two specific verses in scripture:

Now in the first year of Cyrus king of Persia, that the word of The Lord spoken by the mouth of Jeremiah might be accomplished, The Lord stirred up the spirit of Cyrus king of Persia, that he made a proclamation throughout all his kingdom, and put it also in writing, saying, Thus saith Cyrus king of Persia, All the kingdoms of the earth hath The Lord God of heaven given me; and he hath charged me to build him an house in Jerusalem, which is in Judah. Who is there among you of all His people? The Lord his God be with him, and let him go up."
(2 Chronicles 36:22-23)

and

"Now in the first year of Cyrus king of Persia, that the word of The Lord by the mouth of Jeremiah might be fulfilled, The Lord stirred up the spirit of Cyrus king of Persia, that he made a proclamation throughout all his kingdom, and put it also in writing, saying, Thus saith Cyrus king of Persia, The Lord God of heaven hath given me all the kingdoms of the earth; and he hath charged me to build him an house at Jerusalem, which is in Judah. Who is there among you of all His people? His God be with him, and let him go up to Jerusalem, which is in Judah, and build the house of The Lord God of Israel, He is the God, which is in Jerusalem."
(Ezra 1:1-3)

---

The temple was rebuilt again, Way Nada, after the liberation of Israel from Babylon under the will of Cyrus the Great, who was, as relegated in scripture, the anointed of the Most High.

As for your mentioning of the needing to level the Dome of the Rock and the conversion of peoples to Judaism. That is not necessary.

It is important to note that the arrival of Christ, who is The WORD of God and IS God, completed that prophecy and finalized it.

The Lord Jesus Christ, who is THE WORD, and is God Made Flesh, himself prophesied:

    Jesus answered and said to them,  "Destroy this temple and in three days I will raise it up."
    The Jews said, "This temple has been under construction for forty-six years, and you will raise it up in three days?"
    But he was speaking about the temple of his body.
    Therefore, when he was raised from the dead, his disciples remembered that he had said this, and they came to believe the scripture and the word Jesus had spoken.
--John 2: 19-22


Christ's death on the Cross destroyed the Jewish Temple, and his rising on the 3rd day solidifies His promise that was ushered by Jeremiah, and again in John 2, which was also the construction of the new Temple. This was made so in the Transfiguration of Christ Jesus, Our Lord on the 3rd day. And on the following days of Pentecost.



Yours In Christ,
Lorenzo

Quote from two specific verses in scripture:

Now in the first year of Cyrus king of Persia, that the word of The Lord spoken by the mouth of Jeremiah might be accomplished, The Lord stirred up the spirit of Cyrus king of Persia, that he made a proclamation throughout all his kingdom, and put it also in writing, saying, Thus saith Cyrus king of Persia, All the kingdoms of the earth hath The Lord God of heaven given me; and he hath charged me to build him an house in Jerusalem, which is in Judah. Who is there among you of all His people? The Lord his God be with him, and let him go up."
(2 Chronicles 36:22-23)

and

"Now in the first year of Cyrus king of Persia, that the word of The Lord by the mouth of Jeremiah might be fulfilled, The Lord stirred up the spirit of Cyrus king of Persia, that he made a proclamation throughout all his kingdom, and put it also in writing, saying, Thus saith Cyrus king of Persia, The Lord God of heaven hath given me all the kingdoms of the earth; and he hath charged me to build him an house at Jerusalem, which is in Judah. Who is there among you of all His people? His God be with him, and let him go up to Jerusalem, which is in Judah, and build the house of The Lord God of Israel, He is the God, which is in Jerusalem."
(Ezra 1:1-3)

Lorenzo:

I agree with you! I think Jeremiah's prophecy you quote yesterday was the emancipation of the Israelites from exile in Babylon.

Lorenzo opined:

"The temple was rebuilt again, Way Nada, after the liberation of Israel from Babylon under the will of Cyrus the Great, who was, as relegated in scripture, the anointed of the Most High.

As for your mentioning of the needing to level the Dome of the Rock and the conversion of peoples to Judaism. That is not necessary."

Reply:

The conversion to Judaism refers to the lost tribe of Israel. For us Christian the re-building of the temple is not necessary but for the Jews the re-building of the third temple is an obsession as it is the center of their religious life, culture and the history of the Jewish people.

During the 7 days war of 1967 when the Israeli Army conquered Jerusalem, a coronel and his men communicated with Moshe Dayan the chief of the Israeli Army, telling him that he and his men are atop the Temple Mount. Moshe Dayan called up Golda Meir the Prime Minister of Israel at that time, telling her about the situation at the Temple Mount. Golda Meir ordered the Army to stay put. It was understood that the coronel and his men were waiting the order to blow up the Dome of the Rock.

It was politics that prevented the event to happen.

Lorenzo opined:

"It is important to note that the arrival of Christ, who is The WORD of God and IS God, completed that prophecy and finalized it.

The Lord Jesus Christ, who is THE WORD, and is God Made Flesh, himself prophesied:

    Jesus answered and said to them,  "Destroy this temple and in three days I will raise it up."

    The Jews said, "This temple has been under construction for forty-six years, and you will raise it up in three days?"

    But he was speaking about the temple of his body.
    Therefore, when he was raised from the dead, his disciples remembered that he had said this, and they came to believe the scripture and the word Jesus had spoken.
--John 2: 19-22

Reply:

These passages in the bible is an allegorical story. This was written for the purpose of doctrinal teaching and to give strength of the idea in the divinity of Christ. This is an allegorical story because the verses you are quoting were from John which was written 7 to 8 decades after death of Christ. When Christ rebuked the Jews in the temple and said; "Destroy this temple", the literal temple was really destroyed because it was razed to the ground by the Roman soldiers in 70 AD. This means the story of Jesus came later than the destruction of the temple. It's John making a parallel story of the temple.     

Lorenzo opined:

Christ's death on the Cross destroyed the Jewish Temple, and his rising on the 3rd day solidifies His promise that was ushered by Jeremiah, and again in John 2, which was also the construction of the new Temple. This was made so in the Transfiguration of Christ Jesus, Our Lord on the 3rd day. And on the following days of Pentecost.

Reply:

This opinion is like the "Theology of Replacement".

WN