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benelynne

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Re: Bible Study: Tubag Bohol Version
« Reply #80 on: July 13, 2008, 07:05:24 AM »
I attend a Bible Study almost every Sunday evening and we go one chapter at a time, starting from Genesis. We are now in 1st Kings 22. The New Testament is easier to read and the thread of thought easier to follow, so I advise beginners to start here. The Old Testament can be very challenging because it has to be understood on different levels--from the literal and historical to the highly figurative and spiritual plane.

It is good to study the O.T. with the guidance of someone well-versed in it because one can be confused by passages seemingly contrary to Christian thinking--like why God blessed Abraham who lied about many things and slept with his maid, Jacob who cheated his brother Esau and slept with both sisters, why David who slept with his general's wife and schemed to kill him is called a "man after God's own heart", why God ordered total annihilation of pagans when the Israel moved into the Promised Land, etc. etc.

In our group, we have a Taiwanese pastor, Filipino PhD candidates in the natural sciences, undergraduate students and plain housewives. The most interesting questions--which force us to think really deeply--come from one Japanese housewife whose question always gives rise to more questions, most of them really hilarious. (I recall the interjections of Belle here.) We attempt to answer in the best way we can, without taking offense, and we sometimes go home without really clear answers to those questions. We don't feel we have one muscle less in the strength of our faith, and we always look forward to the next session.

Somehow, the process of addressing these questions, more than giving any definitive answer itself, is what builds our faith...

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Lorenzo

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Re: Bible Study: Tubag Bohol Version
« Reply #81 on: July 13, 2008, 08:57:08 AM »

Beth, I will try to answer this to the best of my ability, but I also invite persons who know and have studied the Bible more than I; per se Tito Benne and Brod Mike.

For me, Beth,

The Bible itself are works of men who have been inspired by the Power of the Holy Spirit. Or as what Tito Benne put it as, "God-Breathed".

"Who wrote the Bible” is a question that can be definitively answered by examining the biblical texts in light of the external evidences that supports its claims. 2 Timothy 3:16 states that “All scripture is inspired by God….” In 2 Peter 1:20-21, Peter reminds the reader to “know this first of all, that no prophecy of scripture is a matter of one’s own interpretation, … but men moved by the Holy Spirit spoke from God.” The Bible itself tells us that it is God who is the author of His book.

God does not leave us with just claims of His divine handiwork in the Bible, but also supports it with compelling evidence. The design of the Bible itself is a miracle. Written over more than 1,500 years by vastly different writers, yet every book in the Bible is consistent in its message. These 66 books talk about history, prophecy, poetry, and theology. Despite their complexity, differences in writing styles and vast time periods, the books of the Bible agree miraculously well in theme, facts and cross-referencing. No human beings could have planned such an intricate combination of books over a 1,500-year time span. Bible manuscripts (remember, there were no printing presses until 1455) have survived despite weather, persecution and time. Most ancient writings written on weak materials like papyrus have vanished all together. Yet many copies of the Old Testament scriptures survived. For instance, the Dead Sea Scrolls contain all books of the Old Testament, except Esther, and have been dated to before the time of Christ. Consider Julius Caesar’s Gallic Wars. Only ten copies written about 1,000 years after the event are in existence. In comparison, there are over 24,000+ New Testament manuscripts, the earliest one dating to within 24 years after Christ.

The Bible also validates its divine authorship through fulfilled prophecies. An astonishing 668 prophecies have been fulfilled and none have ever been proven false (three are unconfirmed). An honest study of biblical prophecy will compellingly show the divine authorship of the Bible. Further, archeology confirms (or in some cases supports) accounts in the biblical record. No other holy book comes close to the Bible in the amount of evidence supporting its divine authorship.


During services for Adoration of the Holy Sacrament, whenever the priest reads the stories within the gospel (for that particular day), I will cry. And for me, I've started attending Adorations for the Blessed Sacrament as of late, and have come to know elderly women who attend it on a regular basis.

Talking to them, and hearing their interpretations and their life experiences that revolves around the particular scriptural lesson within the gospel reading empowers me.

For me, I find strength in their faith. My faith increases in seeing their own faith. Ako, ma moved man jud ko to see elderly women in their golden ages of 80+ who have unwavering faith. And call on the Name of Jesus. Seeing them cry when the Priest presents the chalice that holds the Blessed Host--even evokes me to cry.

You can feel a presence of Holiness. Naa'y sense of peace. One that can even move a stubborn man such as myself to tears. Christ Have Mercy. Christ IS Mercy.

:)





Cheers,


asianfairy

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Re: Bible Study: Tubag Bohol Version
« Reply #82 on: July 13, 2008, 01:41:41 PM »
Hala mora ug natouch nako ang G point ani.Kadugayan basin duna nay magdala ug sundang. he..he,

Seriously: I must apologized for my  injudicious way of describing my comments re the bible.
However I stand firm in my persuasion that some religious interpretations of the words in the bible made is not consistent with the worlds present reality.

The bible has been a subject of confute for many great men in the past and present and albeit I am no expert in the study of religious doctrines and matters of divinity, I do have my own way of understanding the bible and still I am amazed that the catholic church and the protestant is NOT in harmony in their interpretation of the  scriptures when both have studied the same ONE Bible.


A few vivid examples:

Ok ra sa mga protestant nga ang pastor magminyo ug manganak,
ang katoliko di gyod paminyoon ang pari.

Ang protestante di motoo or moworship aning mga birhen2x , ang mga katoliko sigi gihapon ug worship ani.
Ang katoliko ila gihapon pangadyean ang tawo nga patay na para daw mahilangit ang protestante dili na.


And even protestants in the Philippines and Europe are NOT agreeable about how they practised their beliefs. Here protestant dont consider PS a sin. In Phils, it is.

So who among these two great religious denomination is being literal or superficial in reading the bible?

We all are sinners and no one is better than the other. Who gives the heads of the church the right to declare that homos are guilty of wrongdoings according to the bible when they themselves are?


"Remember life is short, break the rules, forgive quickly,love truly, laugh uncontrollably and never regret anything that made you smile"

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asianfairy

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Re: Bible Study: Tubag Bohol Version
« Reply #83 on: July 13, 2008, 02:43:03 PM »
PS:

Ako na gimodify tong akong earlier comments sa page 8 para di tanto ostentatious paminawon. :)

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Re: Bible Study: Tubag Bohol Version
« Reply #84 on: July 13, 2008, 10:19:02 PM »
Very good points, Tita.

Despite the differences between Catholics, Orthodox and Protestants; differences in preaching scripture, differences in tradition, differences in methodology. In the long run, my dear Tita, we are all praising and worshiping the same ONE and ETERNAL and LIVING GOD. To whom there is no equal, no impossibilities, no one too 'small' for his mercies and his Love.

Katoliko, Baptist, Methodist, Orthodox, Born Again, etc. Why must we persecute each other when we all believe and accept Christ Jesus. God The Father and God the Holy Spirit.

I take these things with a grain of salt and accept the circumstances as it is presented to us. As what History has presented to us.

Tita, even the apostles Paul and Simon Peter disputed and disagreed. Like us, they were also human. But looking at their teachings in perspective, one cannot help but acquiesce to the fact that they both preached the same theme. The manner of ministery differed, but the Word that was taught was the same.

I have no problems with Protestants. Many of my closest friends are protestants and I used to attend a Protestant Bible Study in college; I had very colorful and genuinely spiritual lessons with them. Same theme, but different perspective--which is, almost if not exactly similar to that of what Catholic Church teaches.

Sige, let us all get back to biblical studies here. Who wants to start next? Tito Benne. By your lead, please.


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Re: Bible Study: Tubag Bohol Version
« Reply #85 on: July 13, 2008, 10:25:32 PM »

Hala, tinuod gyud nang ubang mga pari gyud. Ambot na mention naman cguro nako nga akong uncle sa una naay problema sa iyang asawa mag cge sila adto sa kumbento kay magpa counseling ni Pader, na unsa naba nga lahi man nga klase sa counseling gihimo ni Pader oi. Hangtod karon, toa pa ang ex-wife sa akong uncle cgeg pa counseling ni Pader. Ngeks.

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benelynne

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Re: Bible Study: Tubag Bohol Version
« Reply #86 on: July 13, 2008, 10:32:35 PM »

I was raised a Catholic and received education from the Jesuits until college. When I got married, I started attending my wife's Protestant church just so we could be together on Sundays, and I found the free expression of worship liberating and exhilarating. I think there is an abundance of common ground in both for me to dwell in the differences.

I believe we can't be saved by religion. We are saved by our faith. Daghan pud ko disillusionments sa mga pari, but I also have first-hand experience of the weaknesses of pastors. So I don't focus on the frailties of man but on the perfection of God.

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Re: Bible Study: Tubag Bohol Version
« Reply #87 on: July 13, 2008, 10:32:48 PM »
makalibog bitaw basahon na ang bibliya. kinahanglan dili lang na basahon tun-an gyod. pareha sa schoolroom situation nga naay maestro ug naa pod mga studyante.
I am not the center of my life but knowing the plan of GOD for me is....
binisaya nga bible study is available sa www.gcc.com.ph


benelynne

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Re: Bible Study: Tubag Bohol Version
« Reply #88 on: July 13, 2008, 10:42:22 PM »

Tinuod jud ni, Tita Lee. My interest in the Bible was aroused by a brilliant Japanese preacher whose expertise is the Old Testament. I was requested to interpret his preaching from Japanese to English everytime he preached at church. I had confidence in my language ability, but I realized that if you don't have a firm grasp of the content, you can't really interpret from one language to another effectively. So I started reading the Bibile, especially the Old Testament and the history of Israel. Auspiciously, I had a Christian study group that really patiently egged me on until I was able to catch up. Until now, I am still attending our Sunday evening sessions. Today, we finished 1 Kings 21 having more questions than answers... But if God's Word were so easily comprehensible, it would perhaps be because we are reducing His message to human terms. So we have learned to appreciate what we do not fully understand.

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Re: Bible Study: Tubag Bohol Version
« Reply #89 on: July 13, 2008, 10:43:49 PM »

Very well said, Mr Bene. Sakto gyud, religion doesn't save us. Ang mga pari mga tawo ra man pud na sila, kung makasala sila, it's between them and God. It doesn't disillusion me, coz mas daghan man ko kaila nga mga maayo kaayo nga pari. Do you know Fr. Chapman SJ? He was my most beloved priest. I cried for days when he died.

With regards adtong pari nga cgeg counseling adtong ex-wife sa akong uncle, na affected baya gyud ang parish. Kay giluod siguro ang mga tawo maminaw niya magwali sa misa about God's teachings, unya cge siyag counseling on the side. I think the counseling has been going on for close to ten years now. What I don't understand is why wala gi futbol sa Obispo ning paria.

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Re: Bible Study: Tubag Bohol Version
« Reply #90 on: July 13, 2008, 10:49:29 PM »
because the bishop himself knows that these priest are also human beings! Thyl as long as dili batang laki ang ilang gi on the side i really dont care bahalag daghan pa nga baje ilang gi kulokadidang, i dont care too cuz that is very normal.

Mao bitaw na nga until now sigi pa na gi debate sa Vatican nga ang pari should get married. Mo opposed tinali sad ang mga BADIDAT nga pari. haaay i dont know. I never went to church anymore for a long time. Bahala mo agree mo ug dili, basta I feel like am in HEAVEN now.  ;D  ;D
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Re: Bible Study: Tubag Bohol Version
« Reply #91 on: July 13, 2008, 10:53:09 PM »
i agree! it is not advisable to study the bible on your own you have to have your right pastor-teacher(one of the spiritual gifts given by the Holy Spirit) who can help you understand the meaning of the written WORD. understanding the WORD needs isagogical, categorical and exegetical explanation.


benelynne

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Re: Bible Study: Tubag Bohol Version
« Reply #92 on: July 13, 2008, 10:54:07 PM »

We should at least be answerable to the laws of man before we can claim to stand for the laws of God and claim to be His servants. Erring clergymen, whether Catholic or Protestant, should be made to answer for their action. Ang problema ron sa Catholic Church, which the Church itself honestly admits, is the shortage of seminarians ug katong gusto mupari, so removal of a priest may deprive some parishes of a shepherd. Galing lang kay ug nasalaag ang shepherd, labin na jud ang mga kordero. Bitaw, affected parties should instigate formal action to relieve him.

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Re: Bible Study: Tubag Bohol Version
« Reply #93 on: July 14, 2008, 04:33:39 AM »
Oh my dear BB...lucky aunt or poor uncle? whahahahaha  ;D  I'm sorry and do excuse I could just help myself. I think this Pader has more Power![/size]


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Re: Bible Study: Tubag Bohol Version
« Reply #94 on: July 14, 2008, 04:35:20 AM »

Well said Ms. simplylee


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Re: Bible Study: Tubag Bohol Version
« Reply #95 on: July 14, 2008, 06:40:21 AM »

This is true that religion does not save, it is in Faith and in Acting on Faith itself. The structure of religion does encourage the increase and development of faith through the reading and interpretation of scripture with fellow worshipers. This also includes in the act of adoration of the Blessed Sacrament, Prayers, Litanies, and the act of consecration.

As one who struggled with faith during my adolescent years, particularly all throughout my high school years, I particularly found it hard to accept the rules and structure of the Catholic Church. At the time.

When I left for college, it was when I was alone and distant from my parents and family, physically, that I found and reaffirmed my faith. Kai sa una when ever we would go to church, all liturgical teachings would pass me; that or i would dismiss the words as mere heresay, as mere stories and nothing more.

In college, I immediately realized that I needed something to hold me together. Even logical understandings and scientific methodology could not explain a natural need to 'believe'. I befriended a very good friend of mine to this day, Fr. Mark Hoffman, the catholic chaplain in my college. And I must say that we would have long-ended, glorious, and mind-refreshing conversations. Ranging to questions and talks on scripture, on politics, history and deeply on prayer.

I will always remember the words of Fr. Mark because he always stressed to me the power of PRAYER. He would tell me, "Al, you must open yourself to the Holy Spirit, open yourself to the word of God. To the name of Jesus. Many Americans, are deaf. Not physically deaf, but deaf to the call of God as it is in prayer that He communicates with us and it is in solid and candid prayer that we can truly understand what He has planned for us. Or accept the things that we cannot change and to find strength in what will and what has already happened."

My relationship with Fr. Mark Hoffman has reconnected me. I always thank him for allowing me to be "Born Again" Catholic . On the September of 2006 my sister and I enrolled for Catholic Confirmation with many catholic students as well as municipal members. We studied scripture with Fr. Mark and other ecclesiastical members. We read the entire bible; story per story, and our meetings were 3 times a week. Sometimes it would last from 3 hours to even 5 hours. Depending on the questions we had. LoL

Oh How I loved it! It has allowed me to accept and understand the structure of the Holy Catholic Church, and the teachings, the adoration of the sacraments, and most of all the adoration and consecration of the Holy Gospel.

There is no feeling that can describe the beauty of prayer, of worshiping and singing praises to Our Father. It is true though, that religion does not save, but religion itself can influence and increase Faith itself. Faith comes to the individual. God Claims His Own in due time. Trust me.

For me, mo add lang ko sa aning mga priestly order. I do understand the points of what you guys are saying; and do agree with you that some of these instances of priests molesting young children is completely abhorable. These individuals do not represent the holy order of priests. These are exceptions, and I can only pray for them for the forgiveness of their souls for their actions. It is not right for us to condemn, but to pray for them so that mercy shall be given to them from God. But on a human level, I believe that they should be punished harshly and accordingly to their actions.

Outside of that, the holy orders of priesthood and sisterhood, brotherhood and missionary work are holy orders. God has spoken to them to join in order to spread His Word. And these callings are genuine and true. For that I truly respect priests and those who are seminarian majors and seminarian minors. For they have answered what many do not.

:)



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and Peace to His People on Earth,

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Re: Bible Study: Tubag Bohol Version
« Reply #96 on: July 14, 2008, 06:52:43 AM »
Ay! i have a question?


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benelynne

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Re: Bible Study: Tubag Bohol Version
« Reply #97 on: July 14, 2008, 06:57:44 AM »
Dong Lorenzo,

I really admire intelligent, young men, pursuing academic study in the sciences whose foundation of faith is strong. You seem just like one of the guys I sit down with every Sunday evening for a Bible study. Among the really active members of our group are PhD candidates in Chemistry, Remote Sensing Technology, Biotechnology, Physics, etc. in the University of Tsukuba and research institutes surrounding it. Our Taiwanese pastor is himself a master's degree holder in Mechanical Engineering, aside from his M.A. in divinity at an American theological school. With such a multi-disciplinary background, our discussion and reflection of the Word becomes even more interesting. We do express wonder, surprise, confusion, and sometimes a generous dose of laughter at passages we don't understand, but we believe that the insufficiency of our understanding does not detract from the immensity of His truth.


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Re: Bible Study: Tubag Bohol Version
« Reply #98 on: July 14, 2008, 07:12:53 AM »
Tito Benne,


There is a side story that I would like to share with you.

During the Fall of 2007 and during Spring of 2006, I taught Ecological Biology Lab with my Adviser, Dr. Ostrofsky. There was one time when we went up the Allegheny Mountains next to the Boussard National Wild Life Conservatory, which my college owns.

Dr. Ostrofsky ra and me. Then he asked me something that has been printed in my mind. "Isn't it beautiful?" (He was regarding the evergreen trees, the ecological wilde life that we were looking and observing at). I answered him, "Yes, Professor." And he responded with something that bewildered me, "His creations are too good."

This shocked me, Tito, because I always thought Dr. Ostrofsky was an agnostic or an atheist. Because he never made reference to his faith during class, during labs or during our weekly meetings. I found out that he was, indeed, a born again. But for me it was something because this man not only specializes in environmental biology (limnology, ecology, streams aquatics, toxicology and evolution). Yet he believes.

I would say that I stand with Dr. Ostrofsky when it comes to The Most High.

When I worked in Organics Laboratory, when I taught Molecular Biology Laboratory, Ecology, etc you deal with science on a daily basis. And can't help but notice that there is so much beauty within these given fields. How electrons, react to protons, neutrons. Why the transcriptional processes works and how it works--its relation to the translational pathway and the elongational pathway. And the necessary proteins, activators, inhibitors etc. Everything is perfectly created. Perfectly Designed. The Almighty's fingerprints are written in science. And it bears testament to His intelligence.



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Re: Bible Study: Tubag Bohol Version
« Reply #99 on: July 14, 2008, 08:19:11 AM »
Bran, thank you for taking your time in answering my question.
You don't have to pick a context from the bible to confirm who wrote it.

Here's the thing that I'm not sure you know and everyone here know about the Bible:

The bible was written hundreds and hundreds of years ago by men, and NO ONE knows who they were. When the CATHOLIC Church knows about it, they call the highest possible leaders of the church and gather around to study about it. They found out that some context were really bad that they literally removed it. And didn't tell anyone about it. So if they were able to do this, that means, they add and remove anything according to their likes and dislikes. So do you think God the Holy Spirit told them to do this?


So now that I'm older and knows a lot of it, I was kind of skeptical about the whole thing. And I will go crazy if I follow it word for word. Or context by context and try to makes some reflections after.

The bible is basically written by men that no one knows who they were. Someone out there hundreds of years ago claimed that it came from the word of God. The Catholic church loves the power and grab every possible thing to let the people know that this is it! The Popes, Cardinals and what have you were the most brutal people I could imagine. They burned people, hang them, cut their heads....I mean....what kind of work is that?
So as not to confuse you guys to where I really stand, for me whatever I believe and do? all I know...God is there and we  all seek to him, it's just that all of us have different roads or path to go and follow Him.
The bible is a book to remind me that God is there but to really read it again and again and again and memorize it, no I think i've done that many years ago already and that was more than enough. It's only a matter of how you interpret it and apply it in our day to day life.
For as long as I live my life peacefully and be good to others as much as they are to me,  God is with me.
I don't have to re-read the bible over and over and tell everyone about it.
Each one of us was given 2 gifts from God.. INTELLECT and FREE WILL. Therefore I use it wisely as much as I can. I don't have to shout the whole world and tell them this is what I do and this is not what I didn't do and for what? let the people judge me?....for short...I don't need anybody to tell me and remind me that God is there and read the Bible...why would I? GOD IS ALREADY WITH ME..I feel his presents in me and that's all I need to know.

So pardon me guys if I'm a little too strong, I do respect all what you are talking about here...some I agree and some I don't, that's normal right!
 These are just my opinions.. possibly the first and my last. This is pobably what happen after all what I've been through at an early age, lows and highs and lows and high again...what can I say that's life. And NO ONE knows when will I die, not even the Bible can answer that. And I don't even want to know...I am more than ready anytime God wants me.

Afraid of death is another story. And sad to say some people loves to read the bible, to feel secure and feed their minds because it gives them comfort and divert their attention out of possible death.




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