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Author Topic: Celdran: No regrets for 'Damaso' protest  (Read 5744 times)

Lorenzo

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Re: Celdran: No regrets for 'Damaso' protest
« Reply #80 on: October 06, 2010, 12:58:15 PM »
kun moingon ko nga "kini gyod si celdran, arang guwapoha...", judgmental ba gihapon ko?  kun moingon ko nga "kini gyod si celdran, batiag nawong...", judgmental ba pod?  this word must be used sparingly then, because if one says something positive or agrees with another person, it looks like one is far from being judgmental even if the process is the same, that is, giving an opinion plain and simple.  if it's the other way around... uh-huh... :(

anyways, i hope you never run out of energy in your defense of catholicism.  we're reading. :D

Indeed. I guess it goes in line with what they say, nothing is ever good enough / or bad enough for certain individuals.
Bah, the ludicrous notion that we are Judging Celdran. Celdran was already Judged. Judged by his violation of A Philippine Law.
And when in the Republic of the Philippines, all people (Filipino citizens, foreigners alike) must bow before the Law of the Land.
Just as how American Law requires Citizens and foreign visitors to respect and adhere to the Law of the land.

The issue here, which is rather interesting, is not that Celdran's constitutional right were violated, Nay!
This is the beauty of how Constitutional Rights apply only to a certain degree--until the one expressing violates the rights of others.

Celdran disagreed with The Catholic Church's stance on the RH Bill. Fine. Join the rest.
However, the way he carried his opposition to Church stance is what found him--in Jail.
By marching inside a Church service, when hundreds of faithful are observing mass, in order just to make a political point, that itself is already deemed a publicity stunt. I dare say this because it is. The man came into church dressed up as Jose Rizal yelling 'DAMASO' (a controversial Catholic priest in Jose Rizal's work) to attract attention and even when he was peacfully escorted out, was shouting vulgarities at the faithful.
This is already deemed as verbal harassment, to the parishoners present, to the priests.

Had he done this in a Protestant Church, Mormon Temple, Muslim Mosque, Jewish Temple, he would have been arrested as well.

His actions, the way he carried out his actions, is what is being talked about. Not his political agenda.



:)

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Lorenzo

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Re: Celdran: No regrets for 'Damaso' protest
« Reply #81 on: October 06, 2010, 01:06:39 PM »
Rhetorical question:


A convicted serial killer was found guilty of killing 12 people was sentenced to life imprisonment. A mother of 3 children speaks out of disgust and says, "That disgusting murderous scum! He deserves to rot in jail!", would it be idealistic if we were to say to the mother, "Don't say that, you self righteous lady, don't be judgmental!" ?



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chriswise

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Re: Celdran: No regrets for 'Damaso' protest
« Reply #82 on: October 06, 2010, 02:20:54 PM »
ah, very nice, indeed. By this verse, it nullifies men who claimed to be prophets such as Muhammad (Islam) and Joseph Smith (Mormonism).
Since Christ Is the Word Made Flesh, The Seal of Revelation, no man or prophet will come after him. For when He comes again, it will summon the end of the world.

;)

ang galing mo sir,,,tama yon,,,

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Scarb

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Re: Celdran: No regrets for 'Damaso' protest
« Reply #83 on: October 06, 2010, 03:57:28 PM »
No, Priscilla, not judging. Merely saddened by his manner of actions that have disturbed many in that mass because of his lack of respect. His action was politically motivated {And possibly a publicity stunt}, and doing so in a house of worship is , in my point of view, unacceptable and disrespectful.

Would it not be similar if a protester came inside a Mormon Temple and shouted in protest because of the Mormon situation of polygamy in Utah, United States? The same concept applies...

No one is judging anyone, merely sharing our views on the way he handled this unfortunate event...
- Mao jud na ijaha kon mo reply ka sa iyang post and cite ur general views,ingon dayon sya contradict daw ka.
 -Sya ra pod naigo sa ija gizulti..toinks

Indeed, no one has the right to judge, you yourself have no right to judge Catholic Tradition and our belief systems. And the judging of 'Philippine persons' because it may not liken to what you would have them.
-Ja ja..what about her sarcasmus about water in plastic bottle kono? What about emphazising collection in a basket kono?
 What about stating a satue of a lady being parade (her lines) daw? Unza man na wla sya mag judge sa religious tradition sa uban?  >:(
Before you share a criticism, take a dose of your medicine at times.
-Butangi..tua na adah takianga woi..tyahaha



Jehee bravo Bran²..absolutely korekimouz jud ka..!

Unja kon mo disagree ka sa ija post, negative na daw ka..bazin guzto nya segihan sya ug dayeg ug mag tando² laman tas ijang gipangyawit? Well, if datz the case..this is no longer called a forum (give and take interaction) hmnn  :P


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vrglguapo

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Re: Celdran: No regrets for 'Damaso' protest
« Reply #84 on: October 06, 2010, 04:08:29 PM »
Jehee bravo Bran²..absolutely korekimouz jud ka..!

Unja kon mo disagree ka sa ija post, negative na daw ka..bazin guzto nya segihan sya ug dayeg ug mag tando² laman tas ijang gipangyawit? Well, if datz the case..this is no longer called a forum (give and take interaction) hmnn  :P

Mao jud ,mao bitaw  nga dili ko sigi ug paoyon sa ubang mga thread diri (correct ka sir)(tama ka mam)...a-s su-k-r... >:( >:(

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Scarb

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Re: Celdran: No regrets for 'Damaso' protest
« Reply #85 on: October 06, 2010, 04:24:35 PM »
Mao jud ,mao bitaw  nga dili ko sigi ug paoyon sa ubang mga thread diri (correct ka sir)(tama ka mam)...a-s su-k-r... >:( >:(

Ky mao man kuyaGuaps (ajaw pag maam hoi)  :P

If we disagree and cite our views base on general perceptives..lainon na ang sabaw...! bunö..! bwahaha

We are not fault-finder..aren't we?

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Logical consequences are the scarecrows of fools and the beacons of wise men. ~ Thomas Henry Huxley~

Romans 10:9
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Scarb

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Re: Celdran: No regrets for 'Damaso' protest
« Reply #86 on: October 06, 2010, 04:34:44 PM »
About Celdran's case;

"kurz und bündig",,,! > briefly and succinctly  ;)

Dli ang RH Bill thingy (issue) ang makapaprizo nya..kon dli ang pag surambaw nya sa Holy Mass..!
  ka sayning(sayon) ra ana ah..nganong lisodlisoron man jud atong pahak ba? whop§ ;D

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Logical consequences are the scarecrows of fools and the beacons of wise men. ~ Thomas Henry Huxley~

Romans 10:9
"That if you shall confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus, and shall believe in your heart that God has raised him from the dead, you shall be saved."
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vhinz08

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Re: Celdran: No regrets for 'Damaso' protest
« Reply #87 on: October 06, 2010, 08:05:33 PM »
Ang simbahan mao ang katawhan, ang pulong sa Dios mao ang giya sa simbahan aron dili ma hi-adto sa kaalautan ang iyang katilingban. Ang pulong sa Dios nagtudlo sa paghiguma sa usag usa ug  ang katuyoan sa kahalangdun sa kinabuhi,  (Juan 3:16) Kay gihigugma gayud sa Dios ang kalibutan nga tungod niini gihatag niya ang iyang bugtong Anak, aron ang tanan nga mosalig kaniya dili malaglag (mahanaw), kondili may kinabuhing dayon.
Ang Ginoo nahigugma sa kalibutan pinaagi sa pagpadala sa iyang bugtong anak aron sa pagluwas sa katawhan, ang simbahan wala nanghilabut diha sa panggamhanan kon dili nangilabot para sa kaayohan sa katilingban nga mao ang simbahan. 


lihok lang unta ang simbahan sa ilang tahas paglambo sa pulong sa dios ug dili nila hilabtan ang gobyerno nga naglihok pud sa ilang tahas sa pagpalambo sa panginabuhian sa mga tawo nga ilang gialagaran. dako jud ug impluwensiya ang simbahan pero sabton sad unta nila nga naa jud tawo dili madala ug kabig.


Nagalihok ang simbahan  sa pagpakaylap sa kalihukan pinaagi diha sa GKK sa atong matag kapilya aron mapalambo ang pulong sa Dios.  Pero daghan ang nagareklamo niini kay giisip nila kini nga extra curricular activities.


dili kaba matawag nga kristiyano kung dili ka makaapil sa kalihokan sa simbahan?

Ang  pagdawat sa sakramento sa bunyag   nagapamatuod nga ikaw usa ka kristiyano (Romano Katoliko).



sakto jud ka nga dili unta nay angay rason nganong mobalhin ka ug relihiyon maong wala jud bitaw ko nibalhin. daghan gihapon ug mga rules ang ubang relihiyon nga dili makapaikag pero unsaon man nimo pagkumbinser ang uban sa ilang baroganan? basin mas klaro pagpasabot nila kay sa atoang mga katoliko.

Unsaon nimo pagkumbinser sa uban nga sa imong kaugalingon mismo contra na nimo ang imong relihiyon.







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Lorenzo

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Re: Celdran: No regrets for 'Damaso' protest
« Reply #88 on: October 06, 2010, 11:23:14 PM »
ang galing mo sir,,,tama yon,,,

Hindi ako galing, kapatid, ang galing ay ang Dios. The verse that you provided is quite contemplative. :)

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Lorenzo

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Re: Celdran: No regrets for 'Damaso' protest
« Reply #89 on: October 06, 2010, 11:42:22 PM »
About Celdran's case;

"kurz und bündig",,,! > briefly and succinctly  ;)

Dli ang RH Bill thingy (issue) ang makapaprizo nya..kon dli ang pag surambaw nya sa Holy Mass..!
  ka sayning(sayon) ra ana ah..nganong lisodlisoron man jud atong pahak ba? whop§ ;D

Mao jud, Ms. Blue!

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bol-anon nga cebuano

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Re: Celdran: No regrets for 'Damaso' protest
« Reply #90 on: October 07, 2010, 03:42:02 AM »

Unsaon nimo pagkumbinser sa uban nga sa imong kaugalingon mismo contra na nimo ang imong relihiyon.


mas bati kung dili ka motingog ug dili nimo e-exercise ang imong right to speak. mas mograbe unya ang oppression kung mag sige nalang ka ug tando. dili man sad ko magkinahanglan mangombinser ug tawo kay kung ang tawo nakasabot ug ganahan sa usa ka butang dili na kinahanglan kombinseron. and again, it's not about religion. it's about opinion and idealism.

kung naay right ang mga lider modektar naa sad right ang mga member to reason out to their express opinions.

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Re: Celdran: No regrets for 'Damaso' protest
« Reply #91 on: October 07, 2010, 08:11:00 PM »
mas bati kung dili ka motingog ug dili nimo e-exercise ang imong right to speak. mas mograbe unya ang oppression kung mag sige nalang ka ug tando. dili man sad ko magkinahanglan mangombinser ug tawo kay kung ang tawo nakasabot ug ganahan sa usa ka butang dili na kinahanglan kombinseron. and again, it's not about religion. it's about opinion and idealism.

kung naay right ang mga lider modektar naa sad right ang mga member to reason out to their express opinions.

 :) peace brother

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Re: Celdran: No regrets for 'Damaso' protest
« Reply #92 on: October 10, 2010, 04:20:15 PM »
Forget Damaso,remember Sister Christine


Forget Damaso, remember Sister Christine
By Benjamin Pimentel
INQUIRER.net First Posted 10:58:00 10/10/2010 Filed Under: Religion & Belief, Churches (organisations), Health, Women, Human Rights, Americas - Canada

 

CALIFORNIA, United States—She was the nun the Catholic church threatened to excommunicate.

Too bad Sister Christine Tan is no longer around to join the latest fight against the Catholic hierarchy. She would have been a valuable ally in P-Noy’s bold decision to push a key social policy, even if it meant taking on the Catholic powers-that-be.

For she herself once faced the risk of being subjected to perhaps the most painful punishment a nun or priest could imagine. The reason: She dared oppose the brutal regime of Ferdinand Marcos.

“Once during martial law, when we major superiors dared oppose the dictatorship, I was summoned to Rome,” Sister Christine recalled in an essay she wrote before her death in 2003. “I remember the 14 doors that I passed through, only to be told by a cardinal that if I did not cooperate with our regime, I would be excommunicated.”

She was unfazed by the threat.

“I sighed," she wrote, "not because of the senseless threat, but because of the thousands of pesos spent on fare, when this could easily have been done with a single stamp."

Now that's one gutsy religious leader worthy of respect.

As I noted in my last column, the recent Catholic hierarchy tantrum over birth control would make any Filipino lose faith in the church.

But Sister Christine’s story highlights an important point: The Catholic church is not monolithic.

There are, in fact, two churches. Sister Christine represented, as one Facebook friend put it, “the living progressive church.”

And she had more than her share of battles with the other church. The institution that is so adamantly opposed to contraceptives, believes women should stay home and be subservient to their husbands, hates gays and lesbians, tells poor people to bear suffering, and tells everyone to not challenge authority with whom it is aligned—even if it’s a greedy bully like Marcos.

“As to the institutional church, that monolithic fort of mitered men, how I suffered from their arrogance,” Sister Christine wrote.

“How healthy it was to be misunderstood, especially by those who mattered,” she also said. “How faith-filled it was to be the enemy of the dictator, the target of rightists. How liberating it was not to be swept by the tide.”

A powerful insight from someone who spent most of her life swimming against the tide.

Remembering people like Sister Christine is partly why I had mixed thoughts about Carlos Celdran's famous Damaso protest.

The creative disruption of a Catholic ceremony certainly gave the Catholic establishment a much-needed jolt—but it was also the equivalent of a shotgun blast. It may have alienated too many people--including some members of the clergy who are probably shaking their heads in private over their superiors’ Medieval cluelessness, priests and nuns who may also be inspired by Sister Christine’s life of commitment to social justice.

For hers was an amazing story of commitment and spiritual enlightenment.

It’s about a woman from a relatively affluent family who decided to become a nun, but later found the cloistered life limiting. She then discovered her calling: to be a warrior for the poor with whom she lived and struggled against the forces of injustice and greed in Philippine society.

Her battles covered a broad range of issues, from human rights and workers rights, to Philippine democracy and sovereignty.

And she never stopped fighting.

When I interviewed her in 1996 in her home in Leveriza, the urban poor community in Manila, Sister Christine was critical of how, despite the fall of the dictator, there was still so much inequality in the country under Corazon Aquino and Fidel Ramos.

“There are more Marcoses today—before, there was only one,” she told me. “That's what's wrecking our country—the politicians. There is a new elite far richer than 10 years ago and far more powerful.”

As the showdown with the Catholic hierarchy continues, it’s important to remember that, yes, Padre Damaso is still out there. (I bet there are even a few Padre Salvis around, preying not just on the meek Maria Claras, but also on the helpless Crispins and Basilios.)

But there are also other church figures that could inspire and move us.

And they’re not fictional characters from a classic novel. They’re real people whose remarkable life stories are an important part of the Filipino epic.

In her essay, Sister Christine also said, “As for adulation, positions, praises poured on me—they are just bubbles that disappear with a sneeze.”

It’s the one thing she says in that beautiful essay that I truly hope proves to be wrong.

For these days, we should recall and celebrate all that adulation and praise for a nun who personified the compassionate and socially relevant church that every Filipino would be proud to embrace.



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