MikeLigalig.com

Wow! Many thanks for all these responses. It's very useful to me. I will have more questions as I go!

Maayong buntag sa tanan,
I am trying to learn Visayan and I have a question about negation of past and future events.
Can somebody help me understand the meaning and time-frame of these sentences?
Wala siya niadto.
Wala siya muadto.
Dili siya niadto.
Dili siya muadto.

I thought that wala negates a past action but I have come across examples where wala negates verbs beginning with mu-.
I'm confused!

Quote from: wolfpack823 on June 02, 2010, 04:47:56 AM
(jejemon effect).

Wolfpack, I need examples of Jejenese for my research paper. Can you help? Using a kind of Ceblish or Boholano jejenese, how would you type a reply to the question 'Unsa'y imung gibuhat gahapun?', or something.
Thanks!

Hello,
Can anyone in Bohol give me any details about the life of Brenda Abregana who used to be the curator of the Bohol Provincial Museum in the house of Carlos P Garcia?

I'm after any specific details that might help my historical overview. When was she born? When did she die? Did she ever work at the provincial library? If so, when? Did she suffer from any illness? Did she have children?

I am aware that some of her writings can be found with a google search. Please don't send me those - I was the one who put them on the internet!

What I'm looking for are your personal reminisces from her life - or anything you might have heard from those who knew her.

Thank you so much!
Piers

Bojolano Jejemons! I am busy writing up a linguistic description of Bohol. Right now I am up to the bit where I describe the various secret or quirky Filipino ways of writing or speaking that are also used in Bohol. Can somebody help me out with Jejemon/Jejenese? I need some examples to use in my article.

So...
Please answer the following question for me in your own words using the Jejemon or Jejenese writing system but include an explanation in English please!:

Unsa'y imong gibuhat gahapon?

Yes, the community of Biabas is predominantly Eskaya but the flag itself is not. This flag and other artefacts are kept very safe and not always shown to outsiders.
@Way Nada: (Sorry my Visayan is not up to scratch) It would be a good idea for experts to investigate this flag but I think it important that this should be done respectfully - museums are not always the safest places either. Over the years, a number of artefacts have disappeared from Bohol's provincial museum and the library. The slogan suggests a katipunan origin for the flag, but according to Marianito Luspo, there is no evidence that the katipunan were ever organised on Bohol. Sabas Ligones is the only probable link between the katipunan and the Bohol fighters. Also, I'm pretty sure that carbon dating cannot give you such a specific date and recent date. It would be necessary to prove that the flag was produced in the late 1890s - deciding its actual provenance would be even harder.

Quote from: Koddi Prudente on September 24, 2009, 11:57:10 PM
Ang Eskaya nagsugod sa panahon sa pagbiya sa mga Espanyol. Mugna ra na ni Mariano "Anoy" Sumatra nga taga Loon. Miadto og Manila, naKatipunero. Miadtog Mindanao to recruit Katipuneros. Mibalik sa Bohol ug nagsugod og communal farm in Biabas, Guindulman. Gidapit ang mga paryente sa Loon aron mouban niya didto (This explains why there are family names of Loonanon origin in southeastern Bohol like Salamanca, Orcullo, etc.). Nahimong "Datahan" kay naghatag man og farm inputs ug adto niya magdatahan ang mga nakahulam niya. Nagpasiugda siya og kaugalingong mga pulong ug alphabet aron dili masakpan sa mga Amerikano nga Katipunero diay siya. Sumatra iyang apelyido pero dili siya taga Sumatra. 

Hi Koddi, I am investigating Datahan's connection to the Katipunan. There are plenty of stories but do you happen to know of any references in written sources or archives?

Quote from: glacier_71 on September 26, 2009, 02:01:14 AM
makamao jud tos Anoy Datahan ha. kini lang pagmugna og pinulungan, makadayeg jud tas iyang kaantigo.

Hi Koddi, I am investigating Datahan's connection to the Katipunan. There are plenty of stories but do you happen to know of any references in written sources or archives?

Quote from: hubag bohol on February 05, 2010, 10:24:44 AM
It's not that hard, Mr. PerezKelly. The words below are the 3 words you mentioned, and MASB are the initials of the words comprising the words above, which can easily be read, actually. Clue: MASB has reference to the Philippine Revolution.

Good luck!

Thanks hubag, you win the pdf anyway. Send me an email at pierskelly AT yahoo.it so I can send it to you.
-Still not sure about what the 'M' in MASB stands for (Mga?) but I'll think about it over the weekend!

Quote from: hubag bohol on February 05, 2010, 10:24:44 AM
It's not that hard, Mr. PerezKelly. The words below are the 3 words you mentioned, and MASB are the initials of the words comprising the words above, which can easily be read, actually. Clue: MASB has reference to the Philippine Revolution.

Good luck!

Thank you hubag! Of course, "pagtoo, paglaum ug paghigugma". But what is MASB?!!!

PREMIA ANAK SA BALINTAWAK seguro?

OK lang. Ang bandera gikan sa Biabas, Guindulman. Naa didto primerong Iglesia Independiente Filipina sa Bohol (1902) ug usab mga descendants nga rebels, similar sa mga katipunan.
Sorry my Visayan is not so good.

This is what I can work out so far...

Sa taas:
...[PRIMIR?] ANAK SA BALINTAWAK

Sa ubos:
P. ... UOPA...UM PA...

Any more ideas?

Can anyone help decipher the text on this banner? It comes from a small barrio of Guindulman.
Clues:

• note the symbol of the anchor and cross above a heart
• a similar flag in the same barrio contains the text 'M.A.S.B.' and 'Pagtoo, Paglaum ug Paghigugma'

Anyone who can successfully work it out will get a free digital pdf of Lonely Planet Visayas.
Photo is here:
http://twitpic.com/11f0rp

Naa diay. But it takes a lot of patience to go through the records and sort out what is historically verifiable and what is speculation. I am slowly gathering all the available Eskaya resources here in one place: http://www.scribd.com/documents#folder/55722

For an outline of the problems facing Eskaya studies, see the introduction to the document 'Visayan-Eskaya Secondary Source Materials: Survey and Review'.  Also see Fr Ted Torralba's chapter in Tubod (you'll find it in the same scribd folder following the link above).

Yes, but Jes Tirol does not give any account of Mariano Datahan in Mindanao and the possible katipunan connection. He may well have a hypothesis about this but without a reference to a historical record this claim is useless.
So much has been written about the Eskaya in the past 20 years by Tirol and many others. But most of what has been written amounts to projections, possibilities and vague theories. This is all very well but it doesn't help to produce a clear idea of Eskaya history unless these claims are verifiable by persons other than the researcher. 
Everybody know that Eskaya history is controversial which is all the more reason why I am keen to collect as many reliable sources as possible.

Quote from: Koddi Prudente on June 08, 2009, 08:48:24 PM
Mariano Sumatra of Loon town went with a priest to Manila (to study perhaps) and surfaced in Mindanao as a pro-Katipunan organizer.         

Can you tell me where you got this specific piece of information? I am writing a history of the Eskaya and I haven't come across this before. As far as I know, Mariano Sumatra was a young acolyte of a few priests in Bohol not Manila. I wouldn't be surprised if he had been to Mindanao and had contact with the Katipunan but I haven't found any records of this. Can you help?
In fact if anyone has information that is not already on the internet, please contact me at pierskelly@yahoo.it or via the facebook Eskaya group.

I don't know much about it. Best ask Marianito Luspo at HNU or Lyndon Patterson.

Did anyone see this article in the Manila Standard?
http://www.manilastandardtoday.com/?page=goodLife5_mar25_2009

Maybe Cesar Montano will make a film about Dagohoy or the Eskaya. I hope so!

I've made relevant parts of Tubod available here: http://www.scribd.com/doc/13585955/Tubod-the-heart-of-Bohol-selected-excerpts

The problem with research via Google is that you end up catching everything, regardless of whether its true or false. Eg, one of the paras pasted above was written by me but has been copied and pasted all over the place and mixed in with information which is false.
These various dates (AD 677, AD 667 etc) come from the folkloric Eskaya tradition. They are important in Eskaya stories but not historically verifiable. The Antequera cave findings are not archeologically verifiable and the out-of-Sumatra theory has been falsified linguistically. When Googling Eskaya info, ask yourself:
- Has this material been published in a peer-reviewed publication (ie, tested and approved by experts in that field)?
- Does the material cite its sources, and do those cited sources also cite their sources?
If the answer is 'no' to either of those, then it's unproductive to continue circulating that material.
As to the occupation of Bohol prior to AD 667, visit the Bohol Provincial Museum or read the excellent articles published in Tubod, available at the Bohol Provincial Library.

Quote from: Koddi Prudente on March 19, 2009, 12:20:55 AM
Si Mariano Sumatra, nga taga Loon, later surnamed Datahan (founder of Eskaya in Bohol, particulalry in Biabas, Guindulman) ug si Fabian Baha, ang nag lead sa "extension" community of the Eskaya sa Taytay, Duero nag-abot pa sa kinabuhi. Therefore, the Eskaya community in Bohol is not pre-Hispanic. Dugay nang namatay si Tamblot ug si Sikatuna, wala pay Eskaya. Naa pay daghang mga Sumatra sa Loon nga mga buhi pa, ug makasubay pa sa ilang pagka paryente kang Anoy Datahan.

This is a good point. So much confusion over this issue has come from the fact that some researchers took the traditional folkloric stories of the Eskaya as historical fact. Tamblot, Dagohoy and Sikatuna feature prominently in Eskaya folkore. Even Magellan is mentioned. The Eskaya themselves do not necessarily take these tales literally just as many Christians do not accept the literal truth of Genesis. This doesn't mean that Genesis is not instructive to those same Christians or that the stories are not important to the Eskaya. I suggest interpreting Eskaya folk tradition *on its own terms* and the archival, historical, archeological and linguistic data *on its own terms*. You don't need one to explain the other. Eskaya literature is part of Bohol's rich cultural heritage - it ought to be promoted and cherished. As for the non-folkoric history of the community I agree with Koddi. It's likely that the Sumatras and other families migrated from Loon at the turn of the century and arrived in Biabas where a small community already existed. Eskaya literature is evidently post-hispanic since the stories mention events that occurred after Spanish contact. Eskaya language is also probably post-hispanic (see link to document above). Eskaya culture, meanwhile, contains elements that are both pre- and post-hispanic. There are a few examples of these kinds of postcolonial communities and languages elsewhere in the world but they are relatively rare. I strongly believe that the study of Eskaya culture ought not to be trapped in a cycle of 'proving' or 'debunking'. This is a misguided and unproductive distraction. A century from now Boholanos will be wondering why they didn't pay more attention to this distinct cultural community and their literary/linguistic tradition.

Quote from: ZecurB on March 16, 2009, 04:57:13 PM
Nicely pasted from WikiPedia... but I learned and heard otherwise.. The tribe is still a controversial one and unfortunately until now I am still looking for the scientific studies to solidly prove that they are a cultural minority..sorry

They *are* a cultural minority. Whether or not they are 'indigenous' or 'tribal' is another matter if you are to go by the conventional meanings of those words which are themselves ambiguous in a Filipino context. Since the 1990s some Eskaya have chosen to use the words 'tribe' and 'indigenous' in identifying themselves - I make no judgement. As for studies, see this:
http://www.scribd.com/doc/8137028/The-Classification-of-the-Eskayan-Language-of-Bohol

You can see a family tree of Datahan/Sumatra at the facebook group 'Eskaya Cultural Heritage' (http://www.facebook.com/home.php#/group.php?gid=34913077181&ref=ts)

Thanks for information on Timori, the map (see post above) is getting better and better. Keep the info coming!

Note that I'm also interested in urasyun (Latin-based ritual speech) and Loboc Musicians' Cant (veiled speech).

Ha! I wrote that wikipedia article (needs updating though)

Alright, the Secret Languages of Bohol map has been started!:

http://maps.google.com/maps/ms?hl=en&ie=UTF8&oe=UTF8&msa=0&msid=105628516000530012194.000464535d9102552fb2b&ll=9.87957,124.155121&spn=0.671048,1.230469&z=10

Edit by clicking on the 'edit' button on the left - or just send me an email. I've cut and paste comments from this thread in there. Or just send me an email - pierskelly (at)yahoo.it

I have never heard the theory that there is a connection between Timori and Eskayan! This is something that I should test since my dissertation is on the Eskayan language.
So, anybody reading this thread - please help! I would like to chart this on a map of Bohol.

To any Boholano reading this, please tell me:
1. What is your birthplace?
2. Did you ever use Timori growing up?

Just reply to this message! When I finish the Timori map I will send out the link!

(PS. I have much to say about Eskaya and the hoax claims which I think could answer most people's questions. But for now, I'm too interested in Timori to comment here)

Piers Kelly
Australian National University

A game of chess indeed!
From a purely scholarly point of view I'm interested in many of the assumptions/preconceptions that have appeared in this thread. A common theme is that the Eskaya are primitive and uneducated, and therefore in need of leadership and protection. Someone has also commented that the Eskaya culture is not documented and may be in danger of being lost. Another describes Fabian Baja as the 'last leader'.
Sociologically, these emotive reactions are fascinating but as far as I'm concerned they don't coincide with any empirical reality. The Eskaya have sophisticated systems of leadership. They have a tribal council which accords with the requirements of National Commission of Indigenous Peoples, as well cultural authorities embodied in the corps of teachers. The lineage of Datahan and Baja also provide a dynastic authority. Certain members of the group are among some of the most well-educated, multilingual and highly literate people I have ever had the privilege of meeting. There is currently one at the University of Hawaii working with a field methods group on language documentation. For at least seventy years, Eskayan stories and songs have been recorded BY the Eskaya, FOR the Eskaya and IN the Eskayan language through careful handwritten transcriptions. This is cleary a group that is confident in its own identity with little need of outsider support. Anyone who visits the Eskaya might be a little disappointed that they don't conform to the stereotype. They look, dress, eat, live, work, worship pretty much just like the mainstream. What distinguishes them is their cultural knowledge and identity. In the past, outsiders like Jes Tirol, have advanced some pretty interesting theories about the origin of the group which I personally don't support (and neither do many Eskaya!). There's plenty of info available in the Bohol Provincial Library in Tagbilaran from many different writers. Or you can search scribd.com for a document called Visayan-Eskaya Secondary Source Materials where I have attempted to summarise and compare the different points of view. Happy research, and happy New Year!

Hi there,
For those who don't know me already, I'm an Australian linguistic researcher studying the Eskayan language of Bohol.
This post is to announce that I have started a facebook group called Eskaya Cultural Heritage.
You have to sign up (free) to facebook in order to see it but anyone who is interested in this aspect of Boholano culture is welcome to join.

There's only a few photos and family trees at the moment but in time I will add more.

Just go to facebook and type 'Eskaya' into the search bar to find it. Then click 'join this group'.

Enjoy!

Piers Kelly
Research School of Pacific & Asian Studies
The Australian National University
Canberra, Australia

I have some very incomplete family trees for families in Mabini, including Bernal, Bernales, Datahan. Does anyone want a digital copy? Just send me an email with Family Tree Mabini in subject line. My email is pierskelly@yahoo.it

Hi again,

If you are from Bohol and your family name appears in the list below then I may be able to help you trace your family history. I have just finished entering data of 1061 people registered in government records as part of my PhD.

Contact me at pierskelly@yahoo.it with subject line: 'Bohol family history' (so I know it's not junk mail) and I will send you any relevant family tree information that I have. I also need your help adding info for people who are missing from the records. And please, if you see any names of your friends here, please tell them to contact me!

Here are the names:
AGUANZA
AMADILLA
AMOLO
AMPOLOQUIO
ANINO
AROY
ATUPAN
AVENIDO
AYUNAN
BACALOT
BAGAPORO
BAGOTSAY
BAJA
BALABA
BARBARONA
BASTASA
BERNAL
BERNALES
BERNAS
BERON
BERONILLA
BEROU
BESINGA
BIRATO
BIZAR
BUCA
BUMA-AT
BUMAYA
BUSACO
BUSANO
BUSCAGAN
BUTAWAN
BUTRON
CADIRAO
CADUYAC
CAJES
CALAMBA
CALENDEZ
CALESTE
CALISTE
CARIAS
CASTAÃ'ARES
CAWAY
CEUACAYA(?)
CUADRA
CUREBA
DAGUPLO
DAHAN
DATAHAN
DEGRACIA
DELIGOS
DOTOROT
EDOC
ERONICO
ESCOBAL
ESQUILLA
ESTRELLA
EVANGELISTA
FELICILDA
FISTEN
GALAMBAO
GALORIO
GAMUTAN
GULE
GUMATA
HALINA
HINACAY
INOJALES
JAMERO
JAMILA
KALOLO
LABASTILLA
LADIGO
LAMOSTE
LANTIGUE
LANZADERAS
LAPIZ
LLEMET
LONTOCO
LUSICA
MACALAM
MANUERO
MAQUIDATO
MAQUILANG
MARCOJOS
MASALTA
MASIPIGUINA
MILO
MOLATO
MORENO
MORGIA
MULATO
MURING
NILOGAO
NILUGAO
OLAIVAR
ORAY
OTOS
PADIROG
PALACA
PALMA
PALMITOS
PATESTIS
PATULILIC
PEÃ'ARANDA
PERIHAN
PEROS
PIQUERO
PISCOS
PITOS
PIZAÃ'A
PORTIAS
PREQUITE
PRESENTES
QUIETA
RANAS
RANES
RAS
RECITAS
REDULLO
RENEGADO
RODRIGUEZ
ROSALINDA
ROSLINDA
SAGURAN
SAGUT
SAJULGA
SANDIGAN
SANGARIOS
SARELES
SEVIDAN
SIMARO
SUMATRA
TACULAO
TAGUPA
TAGUTUNGAN
TAJO
TAN
TEIANO
TENIO
VALMORIA
VIRTUDAZO
ZAMORAS

Hi I'm looking for Gerardo Buslon Sumatra from Pilar. I may be able to assist with his family tree. Contact me at pierskelly@yahoo.it

Hi my name is Perez and I am an Australian researcher who lived in Bohol last 2005-2006. 
I am soon going to visit Bohol and the rest of the Visayas in order to update the Visayas section of the Lonely Planet guide. If you or any of your readers have any "must sees" for the Visayas please let me know. You can add suggestions to the comments section of this post here. Look forward to hearing from you!