Author Topic: Does the Philippines Need Another Marcos? (Read 18646 times)

Lorenzo · « **Reply #120 on:** February 14, 2009, 07:28:44 PM »

i beg to disagree with some of the above quoted observations of dong enzo.

Foremost, it was at the time of Marcos that NPAs and CPP flourished because of his wanton disregard of human rights. the marcos era was the prime of student activism because of his policies that violates that very foundation of our persons and of our nation.

if my memory is still serves me right, the Huks, the NPAs predecessor, were already crushed (surrendered, i think, is more politically correct) at the time of President Quirino by then Secretary Ramon Magsaysay's intervention in the peace process. It was Magsaysay's popularity among the masses thal led the Huks to leave the mountains.

Secondly, Marcos' misplaced sense of nationalism cost so many lives including that of the massacre of the men he trained to be sent to Sabbah. I am not espousing the idea that only diplomatic missions could solve our Sabbah claims, but then, Marcos' policy was just totally wrong. Had Marcos reflected much of his stance on Sabbah, the massacre could have been avoided. It was so haphazardly and negligently planned that its flaws were screaming wild in our history.

Tito,

I am no specialist in Filipino National Security, but am just a regular reader. Yes you are right about the grave human rights abuses by President Marcos. The Jabidah Massacre was an unfortunate incident, but due to the secretive nature of the operation at the time, "Operation Merdika" (Operation Freedom) I can understand why it was done. As it was part of the Philippine Intereste to train paratroopers and saboteurs to invade Sabah. The term "Merdika" is Malay for "Freedom".

I for one am not going to sit here and deny the human rights violations of President Marcos, as that would be impossible. I acknowledge his mistakes, and the grievances of the Filipino people that suffered under his administration.

However, I will not deny the fact that I am attracted and intrigued by his oratory skills, his military solidarity. Never has the Philippines seen the rise of the Philippine Armed Forces as in the days of Marcos. When the Philippine Air Force, Navy, Army, Marines, Black Panthers, Rangers etc, was so well equipped, well trained, and well armed that left its Asian neighbours reeling.

It was a time when the Philippine Eagle eyed foreign lands. Had the Philippines invaded Sabah, Malaysia, there was no way Malaysia would have survived the invasion or repelled the invasion. As the incident wouldn't have been the same as the Konfrantasi of 1962 when Indonesia's Pancasilah forces tried to extinguish Malaysia's right to existance. As when this happened, the UK and Australian forces intervened on Malaysia's behalf.

The Philippines, a strategic ally of the United States, and the Philippine Army, Navy, Marines were all American-trained, using the best-of-the best American materiel would not have been touched by British or Aussie forces for fear of straining American relations. And then again, just on the size of the Armed Forces of the Philippines at the time. During the Marcosian Epoch, the AFP was estimated at having 250,000 men on active duty. Sabah would have fallen in 2-3 months time as Operation Merdika predicted. There are even reports that the Philippines could have marched all the way west to conquor not just Sabah, but also all of Sarawak (East Malaysia). Other Right-wing Filipino would even go so far as marching the entire Army to Peninsular Malaysia, taking and subduing Kuala Lumpur. And Absorbing the whole of Malaysia into the Greater Republic of the Philippines.

Best,
Lorenzo

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TOPAC · « **Reply #121 on:** February 16, 2009, 09:13:57 AM »

Marcos' pampering of the military was the epoch of corruption in the AFP.

needless to say, GMA is doing the same thing now.

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buwadsanga · « **Reply #122 on:** February 20, 2009, 09:30:46 PM »

this question should not be asked. the reason why? it's obvious!

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A Layman · « **Reply #123 on:** February 21, 2009, 10:25:00 AM »

Marcos is history. If ever that 'history repeats itself' is true, then never in Pinas.

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glacier_71 · « **Reply #124 on:** February 21, 2009, 12:08:37 PM »

this question should not be asked. the reason why? it's obvious!

you are korek, buwad. glad you're back.

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lalyoo · « **Reply #125 on:** February 21, 2009, 06:45:29 PM »

YES!!! maajo pa to MAKOY kay ana POTUT!!! na BOAYA

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glacier_71 · « **Reply #126 on:** February 21, 2009, 08:18:52 PM »

YES!!! maajo pa to MAKOY kay ana POTUT!!! na BOAYA

Putot's people surrounding her could be the reason.

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TOPAC · « **Reply #127 on:** February 23, 2009, 08:40:40 AM »

this question should not be asked. the reason why? it's obvious!

then , let's delete this thread.

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Lorenzo · « **Reply #128 on:** February 23, 2009, 08:45:36 AM »

We cannot delete this thread, because I for one am a Marcosian Apologist.

I am a fan of Marcos.

In my opinion, he was the Greatest Filipino President, Ever.
His brilliance is undisputable. Most of the Republic Acts, which he wrote, are still enforced and still in use.

Aside from his corruption, the man was a Giant among his colleagues. He epitomizes a Politician. The goods and the bads.

President Ferdinand E. Marcos.
President of the Republic of the Philippines.

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glacier_71 · « **Reply #129 on:** February 23, 2009, 08:47:56 AM »

what made Marcos stick to you, enzo?

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Lorenzo · « **Reply #130 on:** February 23, 2009, 08:53:01 AM »

I remember reading a book on Marcos several years back, as it was a topic of discussion in my College History Course.

We were assigned to write a 10 paged paper on Marcos and other Dictators of the time.

There was a quote that Marcos said in regards to difficulties of governing, which I used as my ending sentence in my paper,

"Leadership is the other side of the coin of loneliness, and he who is a leader must always act alone. And acting alone, accept everything alone. "

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Lorenzo · « **Reply #131 on:** February 23, 2009, 08:57:52 AM »

For the most part, Marcos did good in Bohol. He brought electricity, he brought paved roads, and for the most part he brought peace and order to a country that once was ripe with murders, drug trade, rebellious activity, regional violence.

I admire his firm handedness, I admire his through deliberation, I admire his overall, view on the good of the Philippines.

He may not have been a Socratic Philosopher King, but he was one that crushed rebellious activities with the Hammer of the AFP.

Under Marcos, The Philippine Air Force and the Philippine Navy was feared in the region. MNLF rebels ran for their lives at the sound of the Footsteps of Divisions marching down to squash their insurgent activity.

Marcos' only enemy was Age and Time.

Time got the best of him.

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Lorenzo · « **Reply #132 on:** February 23, 2009, 09:06:00 AM »

If you look at the political scheme, there was no president after Marcos that has made such an impact. Corruption and political malhandling that many attribute to the Great Marcos---these same leaders are themselves guilty of.

This Senator Lacson from Illocos who likes to raddle sabers and threaten GMA with political attacks is also a supporter of the terrorist NPA.

Had Marcos been alive, Lacson would have already been silenced on charges of National Treason.

These politicians who claim to be righteous and make proliferations on the need for change and etc etc are themselves guilty of vote buying, corruption etc.

When Marcos was in power, they ushered graces to Marcos, hailed him. And when people's power came at hand, then they back stabbed the President.

Same thing happened to Estrada.

Same thing happened to Aquino (who was threatened by mutineeing)

People's Power is a rebellious concept. Rebellion to government and to Order. Anarchistic, if you think about it (as it has been argued by a colleague of mine in my history class on Global Politics---several years ago)

When Marcos was President, the Military was vehemently loyal to him. No treasons, no confrontation. After Marcos, the military is 'feared' and is treated second class.

The Philippine Government deprive the AFP of much needed military equipment and improvement based ont he fact that they fear the Military.

Why fear the Military?

They should LOVE the military. Just like Marcos. Marcos Loved the Military. And the Military LOVED him.

Caesarian, in a way.

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glacier_71 · « **Reply #133 on:** February 23, 2009, 09:18:43 AM »

The name Marcos is synonymous with dictatorship, unprecedented corruption, and abolition of democracy. It's definitely one, if not the worst, regime that we as a nation have had. This is I believe is the reason why many people abhor the name.

As a person, the name Marcos is arguably referred to the late Ferdinand, because of his character, brilliance and role in our history. We may never have a FEM again, but it's pathetic to realize how can this man be only associated with the ills and evils of a regime many would not want to remember, let alone be repeated.

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Lorenzo · « **Reply #134 on:** February 23, 2009, 10:29:43 AM »

Glacier, did you read about the conversation Pres. Marcos had with Professor Yap?

Shortly after martial law was declared, Speaker Laurel asked Prof. Manoling Yap to accompany him to the said Palace meeting with Marcos. Marcos was known to be very close to the Laurels. Marcos felt that he owed his Supreme Court murder charge acquittal to the then Supreme Court Chief Justice (and later Japanese Occupation Philippine President) Jose Laurel Sr.

It was also Speaker Pepito Laurel who brought Marcos into the Nacionalista Party (NP) and paved the way for his nomination as NP Official Candidate for the 1965 Presidential Election which Marcos won over incumbent President Diosdado Macapagal.
In that Palace meeting, Laurel asked Marcos: “Brod, why did you have to declare martial law?” According to Manoling Yap, Marcos replied: “Brod, kung hindi ako nag-declare ng martial law, ako ang papatayin ng mga Amerikano."

I am not going to overlook the shortcomings of Ferdinand Marcos, as it would be unhistorical for me to do so. I simply just admire the man. His charisma, his endeavors and his Machiavellianismo attitude.

He was a Brilliant Politician. Brilliant.

Marcos may be gone, but his living testaments are the Republic acts, which most of whom are still in use. He promulgated the Batasang Bayan, which would ultimately become the Interim Batasang Pambansa. We cannot say that he was a failure of a president, since his laws are still in force and in use to this very day.

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Lorenzo · « **Reply #135 on:** February 23, 2009, 10:42:46 AM »

President Ferdinand Marcos,

Oh only if he hadn't abused his power.

Imagine what a President he could have been.

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TOPAC · « **Reply #136 on:** February 23, 2009, 11:16:29 AM »

actually, it depends on what kind of book you are reading, the author, the latter's knowledge of Philippine history prior to and after martial law.

he's got a brilliant brain, no doubt.

but as a President, need i doubt?

dong, please grab a copy of jovito salonga's books.

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glacier_71 · « **Reply #137 on:** February 23, 2009, 11:34:43 AM »

President Ferdinand Marcos,

Oh only if he hadn't abused his power.

Imagine what a President he could have been.

none can argue of the mind FEM had, enzo. but what does a man profit if he gains the whole world and yet forfeit his soul. he may have gained the admiration among the academe and intellectuals, but he lost his soul among his countrymen he promised to serve.

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Lorenzo · « **Reply #138 on:** February 23, 2009, 12:49:41 PM »

We can never judge Marcos and say that he lost his soul. Who are we to say that he lost his soul, but God Himself.

Marcos could have, in his death bed, renounced his actions and yearned for forgiveness from The Lord, Whose mercy is beyond our reckoning and understanding.

Marcos was a devout Catholic in his life. He met the Holy Father, Pope John Paul II.

I am sure Marcos made his peace with God. In his own way.

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Lorenzo · « **Reply #139 on:** February 23, 2009, 12:55:35 PM »

actually, it depends on what kind of book you are reading, the author, the latter's knowledge of Philippine history prior to and after martial law.

he's got a brilliant brain, no doubt.

but as a President, need i doubt?

dong, please grab a copy of jovito salonga's books.

Tito, I'll keep an eye out for Salonga's books. Never read his works, I admit.

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TOPAC · « **Reply #140 on:** February 23, 2009, 01:03:59 PM »

Marcos was a devout Catholic in his life. He met the Holy Father, Pope John Paul II.

dong, do you know that Marcos orchestrated an attempt on the life of the Pope when he visited the Philippines?

yes, he did.

also, the Pope deviated from the itinerary prepared by the Palace to meet Manila's slums to Imelda's shame because they were covering the squatter's area in the Pope's route with billboards.

LOL

grab one of salonga's works asap dong.

you won't regret it.

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buwadsanga · « **Reply #141 on:** February 23, 2009, 01:05:02 PM »

marcos ang salot sa pilipinas!

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glacier_71 · « **Reply #142 on:** February 23, 2009, 01:35:27 PM »

We can never judge Marcos and say that he lost his soul. Who are we to say that he lost his soul, but God Himself.

Marcos could have, in his death bed, renounced his actions and yearned for forgiveness from The Lord, Whose mercy is beyond our reckoning and understanding.

Marcos was a devout Catholic in his life. He met the Holy Father, Pope John Paul II.

I am sure Marcos made his peace with God. In his own way.

never i heard from the Marcoses expressing a word of apologies for what they'd done, like most politicians. i know no one can judge them or him. but as it's said, when the heart is full the mouth speaks. all they say up to this time is that they've done nothing against filipinos. it's no wonder the road to change of our nation is next to impossible, because no one is taking the responsibility, even the M's.

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Lorenzo · « **Reply #143 on:** February 23, 2009, 01:54:04 PM »

Hahaha, I love reading your responses. So much passion. I bet it would be different had I grown up living in those years instead of reading it just in books.

To do justice on the opposition, I'll read more on it, especially on your recommended readings, Tito Zosimo.

Mo read ko ani, ug ma human na ko sa basa, mo discuss napood ko ninyo ani.

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TOPAC · « **Reply #144 on:** February 23, 2009, 02:40:52 PM »

Noted dong!

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Lorenzo · « **Reply #145 on:** March 08, 2009, 05:16:12 AM »

I just got the copy, Mr. Zosimo.

When I am done, we shall talk about it.

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ayessa · « **Reply #146 on:** March 08, 2009, 05:24:03 AM »

We can never judge Marcos and say that he lost his soul. Who are we to say that he lost his soul, but God Himself.

Marcos could have, in his death bed, renounced his actions and yearned for forgiveness from The Lord, Whose mercy is beyond our reckoning and understanding.

Marcos was a devout Catholic in his life. He met the Holy Father, Pope John Paul II.

I am sure Marcos made his peace with God. In his own way.

He should have asked forgiveness to the Filipino people, not only to God. I grew-up in a catholic school, we were taught to ask forgiveness first to the person whom we have sinned before we ask for divine absolution.

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glacier_71 · « **Reply #147 on:** March 08, 2009, 05:28:41 AM »

did Marcos become a Protestant later on?

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A Layman · « **Reply #148 on:** March 08, 2009, 05:12:52 PM »

Yes, he bacame a protestant later in his life. That was when the first lady confined him inside a room located at the basement of Malacanyang. That time when he was sick of lopuz. He protested why his wife did the political affair of the country with Fabian Ver without him being consulted.

Recommended reading:

The Conjugal Dictatorship- (I forgot the author)
Not by Power Alone- J. V. Salonga

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Lorenzo · « **Reply #149 on:** March 08, 2009, 11:05:13 PM »

Layman,

Thank you for the recommended readings. I will hungrily seek these and read it.

Respectfully Yours,
Bran Lorenzo

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buwadsanga · « **Reply #150 on:** March 09, 2009, 08:48:32 AM »

grabe ka baho na kono ang pikpik ni imelda ron kay naabuso sa bata pa sya. ug motindog sa gi lingkoran, mo dugok kono daghang lagong!*# Jezzzzssus!

ngggeeeeek! grabheeee!

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Lorenzo · « **Reply #151 on:** March 09, 2009, 08:49:51 AM »

That is nothing but heresay, Buwad.

I don't take rumors seriously. Anyone can start a rumor.

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buwadsanga · « **Reply #152 on:** March 09, 2009, 08:54:11 AM »

tama ka lor, nahisgutan man gud namo last weekend kasama mga anak sa barkada ni imelda nga mga nacpil family. mao tawoy among sumsuman.

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Way Nada · « **Reply #153 on:** March 09, 2009, 03:12:00 PM »

Trivia:

Do you not know that all the more than 1,800 decrees, edicts, executive orders, letters of instruction and or laws enacted by the Batasang Pambansa signed by the former president Marcos is still in effect until today?

If Marcos was wrong or the system he followed is defective governments after him should have repealed all the laws he signed. Other contributors in TB will say; "Why is he not like Lee Kuan Yew?" Marcos and Lee Kuan Yew are the same dictators but people has a difference of perception. It's how the media put them in the newspapers you read.

WN

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glacier_71 · « **Reply #154 on:** March 09, 2009, 09:06:08 PM »

Trivia:

Do you not know that all the more than 1,800 decrees, edicts, executive orders, letters of instruction and or laws enacted by the Batasang Pambansa signed by the former president Marcos is still in effect until today?

If Marcos was wrong or the system he followed is defective governments after him should have repealed all the laws he signed. Other contributors in TB will say; "Why is he not like Lee Kuan Yew?" Marcos and Lee Kuan Yew are the same dictators but people has a difference of perception. It's how the media put them in the newspapers you read.

WN

it's true, WN, that a lot of his laws are still in effect today.

but it never denies the fact how and what did he rob from the Filipino people.

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benelynne · « **Reply #155 on:** March 09, 2009, 09:35:20 PM »

WE've had many leaders since we ousted Marcos, and yet we have barely budged from the ills of our society.

Corruption is at its worst, poverty festers, Muslim Mindanao still rages, political executions and street crimes surge. We have transformed Marcos' stopgap measure of exporting labor into the mainstay of our economic policy.

We have to realize that leadership is after all a mirror of the people that installs it. Marcos is dead for more than two decades. Historical witch-hunting among our leaders will do us no good if it only gives us a sense of being absolved from our own complicity as citizens. The social ills we're facing now are not his ghosts haunting us, but the work of the living.

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Way Nada · « **Reply #156 on:** March 10, 2009, 07:49:15 AM »

Political power has its relation to greed. I think Marcos is not immune to this thing when he grabbed power and declared Martial Law. But there are instances that leaders of a country will resort to drastic and emergency measure when they think that the country is in imminent danger of revolution. Marcos has this excuse of declaring "Martial Law" because in his judgment the Philippines was in danger of an armed revolution.

I believe Marcos had its good intention as every political leader in our country has. His motive in the declaration of Martial Law was to improve the lives of the people and change the Filipino society.

When he declared Martial Law Marcos saw that the Philippines was in darkness and he established NEA [National Electrification Administration] and because he was a dictator he commanded; Let there be light! And light shone on every barrio of the Philippines.

When he saw that Filipino farmers were less abundant in their harvests he established NIA [National Irrigation Administration] and irrigation started flowing to every paddy and ricefield in the Philippines. Starting with the Masagana 99 program the Philippines was able to have abundance in the production of palay and for the first time in our history during Marcos time we exported rice to some parts of the world.

Before our export products like copra and sugar were conducted in free enteprise style by greedy capitalists who transacted business in the high seas without the knowledge of the government. What I mean is that our export crops are smuggled outside the Philippines without paying taxes to the government. Marcos revised this method by monopolizing the export of sugar and copra by government owned corporations so that the people will be benefitted by our own export products.

During Martial Law the Philippine economy was entirely an agriculturally based nation and because of Marcos lofty ambition to promote the lives of the Filipinos he started to industrialize the whole Philippines. He invited foreign capitals to invest in our country. He established EPZA [Export Processing Zone Authority] in Bataan, Intel in Baguio, the Mactan Export Processing Zone in Cebu and the processing of electronic spare parts in Pasig. To generate power for these industrial zones he commended the expertise of Westinghouse Inc. to start building the nuclear plant to power electricity needs for these industrial complexes and electric consumption for the people of Luzon.

He also invited foreign capitals of the car industry to invest in the Philippines and with Filipino automotive engineer's designed cars we started designing for Filipino use and export to other countries. Toyota has the Tamaraw model, Mitsubishi has the Cimmaron, Volkswagen has the Sakbayan and Ford has the Feira. These are the initial models for development in the Philippines. Expecting the rise of the transport industry Marcos built the Philippine-Japan Friendship Highway from Mindanao to Luzon. He built also the two super-highways, the north and the south.

With this development there was no mass migration of Filipino workers to the Middle East. And the political opposition did not like this that they called Marcos a power hungry dictator. They protested that Marcos should conduct elections. Marcos conducted election but the opposition don't have a ghost of a chance of winning because they cannot show to the people any performance that will attract voters to vote for them. So the started the issue that Marcos was a cheat. Not only that they accused him as a thief.

The leftists not to be outdone with issues started destabilizing the government of Marcos by penetrating the workers with communists propaganda and urging them to unionize. The first two processing plants to fall were in Cainta and Pasig. Barbie who was making dolls in Cainta and employing thousands of Filipinos transferred to Bataan EPZA but Bataan EPZA was also penetrated by leftist union and eventually like a sand castle everything crumbled because of the penetration of labor unions.

And then the Philippine economy collapsed and rumors floated that Ninoy Aquino is coming back to the Philippines. True enough to our expectation he returned bringing along with him a number of journalists. Inside the plane while interviewed he averred that he is not the enemy of Marcos but the economy. Of course he is the enemy of the government because some people believed that he orchestrated in the collapsed of the Philippine economy.

The reason why he brought along with him a phalanx of news reporters is because he knew that he is the enemy of Marcos and any untowards incident these newsmen will be witnesses to his execution.

After his assassination at the airport tarmac is also the start of the demonization of Marcos. The sympathy of the people was with Ninoy even if Marcos had done more to the Filipinos than any other leaders of the Philippines.

According to the words penned by a famous bard it says; "The evil that men do lives after them; The good is oft interred with their bones..."

Filipinos today forget the good deeds of Marcos because Marcos political enemies are still with us and they are now in power in government. And the industrialization of the Philippines which Marcos started is completely forgotten. The EPZA, the Bataan shipyard and the car industry which he started come to a complete halt and for this reason started the mass migration of laborers to the Middle East and some parts of the world.

WN

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A Layman · « **Reply #157 on:** March 10, 2009, 08:40:43 AM »

With this development there was no mass migration of Filipino workers to the Middle East. And the political opposition did not like this that they called Marcos a power hungry dictator. They protested that Marcos should conduct elections. Marcos conducted election but the opposition don't have a ghost of a chance of winning because they cannot show to the people any performance that will attract voters to vote for them. So the started the issue that Marcos was a cheat. Not only that they accused him as a thief.

WN

While there are some truths to the observations of WN during the Marcos stewardship of the Philippine government, the above paragraph did not reflect or give some hints of truth during the Marcos era. There really was an emerging spur of industrial activities in some parts of the country with the creation of EPZA initiated by the Marcos government. It's true that substantial number of Filipino skills and labors were absorbed in this particular sector but labor migration to the Middle east were upswing that time with the tricky maneuvers of Marcos sidekick, Joe de Venecia. With the creation of the Landoil Group of companies by JDV, manpower migration increased in leaps and bounds. Every ambitious Filipinos were mindset to work in the Middle East for green bucks, which were true at the start until such time that it came to a point when Filipinos are banned from entering in some department stores because of noted mischiefs like shoplifting. Gambling and thieveries also proliferates in most Filipino camps because of the uncontrolled screening of Filipinos going to the Middle East. In fairness to JDV, because of his willingness to provide every male member of the Filipino family a job in that area, the screening processes were loosened enabling every malfeasant ex-convict and gambler a chance and extend their old bad habits abroad. Eventually, JDV was declared a persona-non-grata by the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia because of what has happened to his recruits.

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buwadsanga · « **Reply #158 on:** March 10, 2009, 09:18:05 AM »

"FAK 'EM 'OL"

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benelynne · « **Reply #159 on:** March 10, 2009, 09:40:53 AM »

A few comments to WN's astute observations:

While Marcos irrefutably put in place social infrastructure and industrial policy orientation that brought us a measure of prosperity, at least for a while, this could not be sustained because he increasingly concentrated political power to his office and shunted transparency and democratic accountability aside.

Martial Law was meant to be a stopgap, emergency measure to rein in insurgency. But the shield of invincibility it gave him against his political enemies induced him to extend it beyond its reasonable limits.

After the goal of suppressing leftist insurgency and other threats to government had been achieved, he should have voluntarily restored the political space for the opposition to participate. As it were, he allowed opposition to percolate with very little outlet for expression within the democratic arena. The massacre of Ninoy Aquino seems to me like the inevitable, logical end of such highhanded politics.

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