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Author Topic: The Philippine Claim Of The Spratly's  (Read 4286 times)

Lorenzo

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The Philippine Claim Of The Spratly's
« on: March 05, 2009, 01:57:14 AM »
Kalayo ra ang China sa Spratley! From what point did they base with their claims? That the Spratley Group of Islands is within the China Sea? Mao ba ni diay? Gonggong jod ning mga intsek! Hay, uli na la ko Sina, lugi ako negosyo. Hatag na ko kwarta GMA para pati Pinas ako a na pero wa pa gihapoy silbe, Senado o Kongreso harang. Lentsik jod Oi!

Absolutely. That is the point, the Chinese are totally violating the Economic Exclusive Zone protocol. They are building small placated bases close to Republican Provincial territory. These islands are beyond Chinese soil. China is a huge nation; stretching all the way west to Eurasia and claiming even parts of Kashmir, with India and Pakistan.

Same with Vietnam. Clearly, these islands, based on proximity to the Republic of the Philippines. It is of national importance that the Republic maintains ur claim and our control of said islands. It is of strategic national importance.



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Lorenzo

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Re: The Philippine Claim Of The Spratly's
« Reply #1 on: March 05, 2009, 02:49:21 AM »
Quoted by Engineer Ferniz,

In my own analysis, America is now fighting an Economic War.

Since year 2000, most of American Owned Companies are being acquired by outsiders like MGM is bought by a Japanese, Disneyland is partly acquired by Europeans, many brands that were american origin and are considered the american legacy are now owned by Europeans and Japanese. One of the best example is Ray-Ban, the best known american symbol, popularized by Mc Arthur, branded as since 1947, the company who designed the multi layered RB50 anti radiation lens of Apollo worn by the Neil Armstrong, the American Pride is acquired by Luxottica Group, an optical Giant in Italy. Marlboro, Nestle and many others are partly acquired by a German group. These are just example. I can see many companies in the US are failing and the situation is worsening.

Since China, is known to be the biggest source of counterfeit products and biggest threat to the American business, the US did a fire fighting strategy by puting its factories in China to compete with counterfeit. By doing so, they could closely monitor and control those counterfeit producers. At the same time, the US enjoys cheap labor. In the process, the US gained control and influence over Chinas economy.

In conclusion, if the US says get out of Spratlys, China will do without hesitation.

On the other hand, I doubt if the US has tolerated China's oil exploration activities at Spratlys in order to fuel thier factories which are also owned by the US?

So, back to Chez Escudero, he is a fighter. I can feel his passion and determination. A brave young guy and surely he will be a promising figure in Philippine politics. However, I have not seen enough caliber to surpass that of Ninoy Aquino and other great pinoys. I don't think he could change the face of our country as a president.

Engineer, this is true. In addition to your statement, it is evident to us that China's largest trading partner is the United States of America. China's largest investor is the United States. Due to this constant supply of American need for cheap Chinese product, which fuels and stems Chinese industrialization and modernization, the Chinese will be weary in supporting methods that would alienate and distance Washington from Beijing. To do so is uncalculated political idiocy and suicide.

That is why the Chinese have yet to invade and retaken Taiwan. (Taiwan is claimed by China, and at the same time, the United States is an economic and military ally of Taiwan--provides military arsenal to the Taiwanese--and thus as a result have detracted the PRC from invading Taiwan. The US 7th fleet also actively patrols the Straits of Taiwan and the Sea of Japan. China knows that America will not allow the Chinese to touch Taiwan. It is the American defense strategy to 'keep Taiwan'. Taiwan is imperative and crucial for the maintenance of American Hegemony in Asia-Pacific.

China's shear economic dependency on the United States is critical for the sustained economic growth of the Chinese. If the United States is to withdraw total economic trade with China, the Chinese will suffer a massive economic collapse.

An economic collapse, in China, is wanton for revolution and would fuel civil unrest.

The Chinese and the Americans know the sensitivity of the situation. And The United States of America, as a strategic Unilateral Hyperpower knows of the politics and internal-regional dynamics of the situation.

China realizes this, as well.

 :)

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Lorenzo

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Re: The Philippine Claim Of The Spratly's
« Reply #2 on: March 05, 2009, 02:56:41 AM »
Engineer Ferniz, I await your response. :)

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Lorenzo

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Re: The Philippine Claim Of The Spratly's
« Reply #3 on: March 05, 2009, 03:21:24 AM »
One other thing that I found rather interesting that we covered several semesters ago in a Global Policy course was the topic of military bullying power. Clearly this is made manifest regarding the Chinese, when the PRC invaded Vietnam in 1979 in an attempt to 'punish' the Socialist Government of Vietnam for invading Cambodia and removing Pol Pot from power, who was, also, supported by the Beijing Government.

Again, another example is in 1962 during the Sino-Indo Border war regarding the province of Aksai Chin and Pradesh.

And yet again in the early 90's when China's battle sorties engaged the Vietnamese over control over disputed Spratly's.

China, uniquely, and interestingly, has never sent naval forces to engage the Philippine surface fleet. Is it a coincidence? Absolutely sure that the American presence and relationship with the Philippines is a detractive factor. The Philippines, a strategic ally, enjoys American Nuclear Umbrella. :)

Cheers,
Bran Lorenzo

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ayessa

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Re: The Philippine Claim Of The Spratly's
« Reply #4 on: March 05, 2009, 04:12:32 AM »
The Philippines is americas strategic pet, not an ally.

If they treated us like friends, they should have considered the Philippines, not as a protectorate during the American occupation, but a territory, where our people should have enjoyed rights and privileges similar to the citizens of america.

They should not have exploited our natural resources, under the Parity Rights Agreement in 1947.
 
Their soldiers should not have abuse their power in  their US bases.

If they acknowledge our sovereignty as a nation, they should have turned over Corporal Smith (who was convicted of rape in the Philippine courts, decision upheld by the Supreme Court of the Philippines) to the Philippine authorities.  Crimes are territorial in nature.  The american embassy should not be the place of Smith detention.  The embassy is an extension of their territory.

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Lorenzo

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Re: The Philippine Claim Of The Spratly's
« Reply #5 on: March 05, 2009, 04:18:03 AM »
We are not debating about American historical antagonism in regards to the Philippines. We are studying the territorial nature of the Spratly's in regards to the Republic of the Philippines.

You may discuss the litigation and your opinion on said litigation on another thread.

You are, however, free to open that discussion on another thread.



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ayessa

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Re: The Philippine Claim Of The Spratly's
« Reply #6 on: March 05, 2009, 04:20:56 AM »
Our 1987 Constitution [Art. II, Sec. 8] provides: "The Philippines, consistent with the national interest, adopts and pursues a policy of freedom from nuclear weapons in its territory."

Now, what are you talking about nuclear umbrella when it is even unconstitutional in the Philippines?


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Re: The Philippine Claim Of The Spratly's
« Reply #7 on: March 05, 2009, 04:22:33 AM »
This is because you have mentioned Philippine "immunity" under the American Nuclear Umbrella, which in fact is unconstitutional in the Philippines.

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Lorenzo

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Re: The Philippine Claim Of The Spratly's
« Reply #8 on: March 05, 2009, 04:46:42 AM »
Where was it explicitly said that there are American nuclear arsenal in the Philippines?

I do reiterate the strategic intiative both parties have, the Mutual Defense Treaty between the United States of America and the Republic of the Philippines.

As it is stated to us by the Treaty:

MUTUAL DEFENSE TREATY

Between the
THE REPUBLIC OF THE PHILIPPINES
and the
THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA

The Parties of this Treaty

Reaffirming their faith in the purpose and principles of the Charter of the United Nations and their desire to live in peace with all peoples and all governments, and desiring to strengthen the fabric of peace in the Pacific area.

Recalling with mutual pride the historic relationship which brought their two peoples together in a common bond of sympathy and mutual ideals to fight side-by-side against imperialist aggression during the last war.

Desiring to declare publicly and formally their sense of unity and their common determination to defend themselves against external armed attack, so that no potential aggressor could be under the illusion that either of them stands alone in the Pacific area.

Desiring further to strengthen their present efforts for collective defense for the preservation of peace and security pending the development of a more comprehensive system of regional security in the Pacific area.

Agreeing that nothing in this present instrument shall be considered or interpreted as in any way or sense altering or diminishing any existing agreements or understandings between the Republic of the Philippines and the United States of America.

Have agreed as follows:

Article I. The parties undertake as set forth in the Charter of the United Nations, to settle any international disputes in which they may be involved by peaceful means in such a manner that international peace and security and justice are not endangered and to refrain in their international relation from the threat or use of force in any manner inconsistent with the purposes of the United Nations.

Article II. In order more effectively to achieve the objective of this Treaty, the Parties separately and jointly by self-help and mutual aid will maintain and develop their individual and collective capacity to resist armed attack.

Article III. The Parties, through their Foreign Ministers or their deputies, will consult together from time to time regarding the implementation of this Treaty and whenever in the opinion of either of them the territorial integrity, political independence or security of either of the Parties is threatened by external armed attack in the Pacific.

Article IV. Each Party recognizes that an armed attack in the Pacific area on either of the Parties would be dangerous to its own peace and safety and declares that it would act to meet the common dangers in accordance with its constitutional processes.

Any such armed attack and all measures taken as a result thereof shall be immediately reported to the Security Council of the United Nations. Such measures shall be terminated when the Security Council has taken the measures necessary to restore and maintain international peace and security.

Article V. For purposes of ARTICLE IV, an armed attack on either of the Parties is deemed to include an armed attack on the metropolitan territory of either of the Parties, or on the island territories under its jurisdiction in the Pacific Ocean, its armed forces, public vessels or aircraft in the Pacific.

Article VI. This Treaty does not affect and shall not be interpreted as affecting in any way the rights and obligations of the parties under the Charter of the United Nations or the responsibility of the United Nations for the maintenance of international peace and security.

Article VII. This Treaty shall be ratified by the Republic of the Philippines and the United States of America in accordance with their respective constitutional processes and will come into force when instruments of ratification thereof have been exchanged by them at Manila.

Article VIII. This Treaty shall remain in force indefinitely. Either Party may terminate it one year after notice has been given to the other party.

In witness whereof the undersigned Plenipotentiaries have signed this Treaty.

Done in duplicate at Washington this thirtieth day of August, 1951.

http://www.lawphil.net/international/treaties/mutdef.html

--

With that said, any attack on the Republic of the Philippines will not be tolerated by the United States of America, and as a strategic ally of the Republic of the Philippines, since the independence of the Philippines in 1946, and ever since then, has upheld its strategic defense requirement and obligation, as well as liberated the islands from Japanese aggression in the Great Pacific War.

An attack on the Republic of the Philippines by a foreign power, or any engagement of its vessels within its territory will elicit an American Response.

Any nuclear attack on the Philippines will be met by an immediate response by the United States, which will also be a nuclear response. The United States percieves any attack on any of its allies as a direct attack on the United States of America Itself.

The United States sent its 6th Army and its entire 5th Air Force to liberate the Philippines from Japanese Occupation in 1944, suffering 62,000 losses for the liberation of the Philippines, and launching the largest naval invasion in the continuum of Human History. That has not been seen the likes of, since the days of the Iliad.

I think it is evident to us, Americans and Filipinos of the totality of the United States in its promises and in its military precision in regards to its national interest and its promises to its strategic allies.

With the United States, the Armed Forces of the Republic of the Philippines was able to single handedly crush the insurrectionists in the Hukbalahap War, need I remind.

Thanks.

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Lorenzo

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Re: The Philippine Claim Of The Spratly's
« Reply #9 on: March 05, 2009, 05:03:13 AM »
Our 1987 Constitution [Art. II, Sec. 8] provides: "The Philippines, consistent with the national interest, adopts and pursues a policy of freedom from nuclear weapons in its territory."

Now, what are you talking about nuclear umbrella when it is even unconstitutional in the Philippines?


The American Nuclear Umbrella covers not only the Republic of the Philippines, but also South Korea, Japan, and Taiwan. These said nations are integral strategic allies of the United States of America in Asia-Pacific.

The same can be said for the United States's involvement in NATO in regards to nuclear threat by hostile powers, namely; Russia and its Bloc.

The American Nuclear Umbrella simply means the deterrance of a nuclear attack is guaranteed. The United States' position to any antagonist nation that ever launches a nuclear warhead on the United States and or its NATO/Strategic Defense allies is called: M.A.D

Otherwise known as Mutual Assured Destruction. If nation XYZ launches a nuclear warhead on an American military base or a strategic military ally will receive a full complement by the United States. One super thermonuclear missile that the United States has in its arsenal is enough to completely glass an area equivalent to half of France. (To provide an illustration on the totality of nuclear power).

The United States will not launch any of its tens of thousands of ICBMs first. The only time the United States will launch its ICBMs is if it and or any of its allies is attacked first by a nuclear warhead.

The United State's policy on this is total. If nation XYZ launches 1 or 2 nuclear warheads on Philippines, per se, the United States will deliver a crushing and decapitation strike. It will launch a full complement of ICBMs on said aggressor (meaning dozens of ICBMs). Enough to glass and neutralize the said aggressor. And the United States has that capability anytime anywhere around the world. As hundreds of America's Nuclear Submarines have the ability to cloak and avoid enemy radar.

This is why is regarded as a 'NUCLEAR UMBRELLA'. America's position on this is solidified and total. A deterrent.

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ayessa

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Re: The Philippine Claim Of The Spratly's
« Reply #10 on: March 05, 2009, 05:15:07 AM »
Important to note  are Articles 1 and 2
Article I. The parties undertake as set forth in the Charter of the United Nations, to settle any international disputes in which they may be involved by peaceful means in such a manner that international peace and security and justice are not endangered and to refrain in their international relation from the threat or use of force in any manner inconsistent with the purposes of the United Nations.

Article II. In order more effectively to achieve the objective of this Treaty, the Parties separately and jointly by self-help and mutual aid will maintain and develop their individual and collective capacity to resist armed attack.


The legal implication of such is that the treaty can only be applicable when the Philippines is armed attacked.

If we do the offensive, the treaty does not have any teeth.  This would violate Article 1 of the same treaty.

As what have been proposed in the previous thread, the Philippines could not invoke the provisions of the Treaty, when we do the offensive.



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Lorenzo

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Re: The Philippine Claim Of The Spratly's
« Reply #11 on: March 05, 2009, 05:24:42 AM »
Why would the Philippines go on the offensive? We are in defensive. The Kalayaan group is within Philippine-Claimed territory and is recognized by the United States as so. The provision of said treaty guarantees that any foreign attack of any islands, vessels, planes, metropolitan areas will warrant the other party's response.

It is evident to us, clearly, that the United States has vested interest in the Philippines. It has a large military base in Basilan, and opening smaller bases throughout Mindanao. The CARAT exercises and annual training between US Marines and Philippine Marines has solidified the military defense initiatives of both nations.

The high American military activity in the Philippines (naval, air, and ground) complements the strategic initiatve to strengthen the American Triangle in the region, Guam as the largest military base in the Pacific, outside of Hawaii.

The US Navy and the Philippine Navy are very close. Both have done military exercises by the South China Sea. Clearly, a warning to the Chinese.

Besides, Americans love Filipinos and Filipinos love Americans. ehem, LOL


Sing that song, baby. ;)

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ayessa

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Re: The Philippine Claim Of The Spratly's
« Reply #12 on: March 05, 2009, 05:26:00 AM »
Although nuclear weapons were removed from Okinawa in the early 1970s, this was not simply in response to the conditions for reverting the island to Japanese sovereignty, but was undertaken as part of a much larger U.S. withdrawal of forward-deployed tactical nuclear weapons from East Asia in response to increasing concerns over the vulnerability of these weapons to terrorist attacks. (The newly declassified documents confirm for the first time that U.S. land-based nuclear weapons were removed from Taiwan and the Philippines in 1974 and 1976, respectively, although naval nuclear weapons subsequently continued to enter both countries aboard warships. Previous Nautilus Institute research has provided the first official account of how nuclear weapons were removed from South Korea in 1991.)

Christensen, Hans, US Nuclear Policy.



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ayessa

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Re: The Philippine Claim Of The Spratly's
« Reply #13 on: March 05, 2009, 05:29:36 AM »
Until territorial disputes are settled in legal forum, the claim to the kalayaan groups does not have any force and effect.

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ayessa

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Re: The Philippine Claim Of The Spratly's
« Reply #14 on: March 05, 2009, 05:32:29 AM »


Is this what friendship is all about?
A convicted rapist of a filipina, is now detained at the american embassy, neglecting the order of the Philippine highcourt. An insult to our own Sovereignty.

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Re: The Philippine Claim Of The Spratly's
« Reply #15 on: March 05, 2009, 05:39:07 AM »
Women, Violence, and the Reinvolvement of the U.S. Military in the Philippines
Human Rights Dialogue 2.10 (Fall 2003): "Violence Against Women"
Jane A. Margold
   
        
    

November 19, 2003
Read a response to this article by Jennifer Butler. Use the link in the right sidebar.

To most of the world, the issue of U.S. military tenure in the Philippines receded when the Philippine congress refused to renew its military base agreement with the U.S. in 1991. Yet, only seven years later, a Visiting Forces Agreement was signed that allowed U.S. military personnel access to 22 ports and bases. It was a return to the abuses that women’s rights activists had long struggled against: the conscription of young girls and women from poor families into prostitution; a growth in criminality, narcotics, and alcoholism in the communities near the bases; the trafficking of Filipinas and their global devaluation as low-paid workers and servile brides.

In the Philippines historically, violence against women has correlated with high levels of militarization by foreign troops. Currently, two long-standing domestic armed conflicts, together with the U.S. military presence, have contributed to an extreme level of militarization that represents not only a heightened role for the armed forces in government, but also a lack of effective checks on its expenditures and reach.

Studies published during the 1990s by Filipino, Australian, American, Vietnamese, and other scholars provide considerable documentation of the brutalities toward women that resulted from the type of large-scale, institutionalized prostitution that existed in the Philippines until 1991, when the U.S. vacated its largest military installation outside North America. Between the Vietnam War era and 1991, Filipinas were subjected to many forms of dehumanization and violence at the hands of U.S. soldiers, including rape, battery, widespread abandonment of the Amerasian children they fathered, and a legacy of sexually-transmitted disease. At Olongapo and Angeles cities, where two American bases were located, live sex shows had been banned at the height of U.S. occupation, but women’s performances involving bodily contortions with objects—which were equally demeaning—were still taking place. In both of the largest base cities, a popular form of entertainment for military men was “foxy boxing,” in which the female participants were forced to fight each other until they drew blood or showed bruises. Without demonstrable injuries, they were not paid, according to a 1995 book published by a scholarly press, Madonnas and Martyrs: Militarism and Violence in the Philippines, by the Australian scholar Anne-Marie Hilsdon. While it might be argued that the women involved in prostitution, as well as the mail-order bride industry, are not always helpless victims, Philippine women’s rights advocates maintain that poor women of developing countries do not choose sex work but, with no other option for economic survival, are forced into it. Once caught up in prostitution, women exercise almost no control over the poor pay, abusive conditions, social stigma, and other risks they face.

These deeply rooted problems, which scarcely had time to abate during the ten-year hiatus in U.S. military involvement in the Philippines, are now worsening under today’s return of American forces and the strengthening of the Philippine military’s power with assistance from the United States. Following September 11, when President Bush declared the Philippines America’s “second front” in the war against terrorism, several thousand U.S. troops have been deployed to the country. This return of military forces means an increase in the domestic and cross-border sale of Filipinas. For example, in Zamboanga City, where most military personnel are based, local rights activists estimate that 2,000 women are now caught up in prostitution, in contrast to almost none before the new deployment Estimates from the International Organization of Migration indicate that over the last year and a half, the rate of recruitment for prostitution has risen six-fold, if the domestic transport of women is added to the trafficking of Filipinas to Okinawa and South Korea to serve U.S. troops.

Among rights activists in the Philippines, GABRIELA, the largest coalition of progressive women’s organizations and institutions in the country, has been a leader in the struggle against what it defines as three, closely-connected obstacles to Filipinas’ rights and welfare: U.S. troops’ lack of accountability for abuses against women; the Philippine government’s tolerance of its own military’s transgressions; and its failure to implement the human rights mechanisms set in place during the Aquino administration. The latter include constitutional guarantees of democratic freedoms, a national Commission on Human Rights, and an office of the Ombudsperson. The Commission’s inability to charge anyone despite the evidence amassed by GABRIELA affiliates has led the women activists to abandon the Commission as a tool and instead push for change by publicizing the troubling human rights record with respect to women of successive administrations.

A key challenge for GABRIELA is the status of impunity of American military personnel. A clause in the Visiting Forces Agreement makes it impossible to hold U.S. troops accountable to a foreign country for crimes committed on its soil, including violence against women. In 2003, the U.S. also required and received assurances from 43 nations, including the Philippines, that its military personnel were exempt from prosecution under the International Criminal Court, which has recognized sexual abuse, forced prostitution, and rape as war crimes. In response to this setback, GABRIELA is organizing a campaign to pressure Filipino politicians to renegotiate the agreement, arguing, in explicit human rights language, that the exemption invites violence against women while leaving them without the right to redress grievances, due process, or equal protection under the law. GABRIELA advocates are also documenting U.S. troop actions that are considered crimes under Philippine law and demanding that, in the case of violence against women, jurisdiction be given to Filipino courts.

One signal success, following GABRIELA’s almost 20-year campaign against sex trafficking, is the Anti-Trafficking in Persons Act of 2003, which was drafted and strongly promoted by GABRIELA chairwoman Lisa Maza, a congresswoman since 2001. The Act affirms the Philippine state’s commitment to protect the dignity and individual rights of women and men, as specified in the international conventions and human rights instruments to which the Philippines is a signatory. The legislation, which is notable for its sanctions against military personnel, police and foreigners engaged in trafficking or patronizing the sex trade, is the product of years of protests and advocacy aimed at protecting Filipinas and Filipino youth from military prostitution, mail-order-bride rackets and sex tourism. The struggle against U.S. “reoccupation” (as women’s groups see it) has been couched as much in terms of national sovereignty as in terms of women’s basic rights to lead lives free of the violence linked to the presence of foreign troops. Yet, passage of the Act is seen by GABRIELA and its allies primarily as a victory in the effort to secure broader rights in the criminal justice system for the underprivileged and marginalzed sectors of Philippine society, the majority of whom are women and children. Viewed as the result of a joint effort by women’s groups that include not only GABRIELA but the Coalition Against the Trafficking of Women, the Third World Movement Against the Exploitation of Women, Sibol, Batis, Buklod and others, the Anti-Trafficking law also received a critical push toward passage from a committee of 100 legislators, church leaders, media stars, women artists and others formed by GABRIELA during its four-year-old international Purple Rose Campaign against trafficking.

Resort to a discourse of human rights has also been crucial in another problematic arena: deflecting the Philippine military’s attempts to characterize GABRIELA as a movement to overthrow the state. Amidst the post 9/11 rhetoric of terror and stepped-up military assistance from the U.S., the setbacks have been considerable. Dissidents on the left, including GABRIELA members, continue to be labeled Communist and targeted for assassination. Five GABRIELA activists, for example, have been murdered over the past year in highly-militarized rural areas, apparently for openly speaking out against the Philippine armed forces and advocating women’s human rights.

Yet alliance members believe that the toll would be higher if not for the domestic and international support they have mobilized by exposing the arrests, imprisonments, and other brutalities endured by their members for upholding their commitment to protect and expand Filipinas’ democratic rights. Appeals to women’s groups in other countries have kept pressure on the Philippine state to consider its image in the international community as a country concerned with its women’s freedoms and safety. But in the aftermath of 9/11, as new funding from the U.S. reinvigorates the Philippine military and U.S. troops are deployed in the southern islands, women’s rights advocates are working once again to prevent the domestic armed forces from abusing women as a means of intimidating the population. At the same time, they are opposing government policies of allowing sexual access to Filipinas in exchange for U.S. foreign financial and military assistance.

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Lorenzo

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Re: The Philippine Claim Of The Spratly's
« Reply #16 on: March 05, 2009, 05:39:53 AM »
Let the legal processes proceed. I have faith in justice.

Let us stick to the main topic, shall we. I said earlier, you may open a thread concerning that litigation if you are so concerned about it.

That has nothing to do with The Philippine's Claim to the Spratly's.



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Macky Ferniz

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Re: The Philippine Claim Of The Spratly's
« Reply #17 on: March 05, 2009, 05:39:54 AM »
The Philippines is americas strategic pet, not an ally.

If they treated us like friends, they should have considered the Philippines, not as a protectorate during the American occupation, but a territory, where our people should have enjoyed rights and privileges similar to the citizens of america.


Let me answer your question as to why we were not considered as US territory after two wars. When during that time, the Philippines was left defenseless.

It was simply because of the following reasons:
1. The US had greater problem of rebuilding thier nation after the war which they kept as priority.

2. After two successive wars, America gained a clean image as liberators, educators and freedom fighters. They sort of maintained that reputation. If they had acquired the Philippines as one of thier state or territories, it would spoil thier image and they would have labeled as emperialist. So, if you thought the America is an emperialist nation, then why had they not captured Japan when it surrendered and defenseless?

3. During the war, many lives were lost. A word is worth a thousand lives and materialism is only limited to utility, money have no value and heroism is flaming inside every american heart. Should Mc Arthur had forgotten his words, we would not be liberated from Japanese tyranny.

It was a totaly different situation then and now that both can not be equated.

I believe that it was the immature/unqualified Philippine leadership after the liberation that led us to this present misery.

America has changed over the years. Many of its known enemies are now integrated in its society and enjoying its freedom. They may now be a different race, but I believe that America still follows the ideals of G.I. Joe.

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Re: The Philippine Claim Of The Spratly's
« Reply #18 on: March 05, 2009, 05:42:38 AM »
Back to the topic,

This is an illustration of the competing claims of said region.


On region

and on the US presence in the Philippines:




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Re: The Philippine Claim Of The Spratly's
« Reply #19 on: March 05, 2009, 05:47:57 AM »
you were talking about friendship. one of the most important requirement of friendship is respect.  The american government does not respect Philippine laws by allowing Daniel Smith to be detained in the american embassy?

Im not talking about the litigation because our courts have given justice to the victim.



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Re: The Philippine Claim Of The Spratly's
« Reply #20 on: March 05, 2009, 05:48:33 AM »
Let me answer your question as to why we were not considered as US territory after two wars. When during that time, the Philippines was left defenseless.

It was simply because of the following reasons:
1. The US had greater problem of rebuilding thier nation after the war which they kept as priority.

2. After two successive wars, America gained a clean image as liberators, educators and freedom fighters. They sort of maintained that reputation. If they had acquired the Philippines as one of thier state or territories, it would spoil thier image and they would have labeled as emperialist. So, if you thought the America is an emperialist nation, then why had they not captured Japan when it surrendered and defenseless?

3. During the war, many lives were lost. A word is worth a thousand lives and materialism is only limited to utility, money have no value and heroism is flaming inside every american heart. Should Mc Arthur had forgotten his words, we would not be liberated from Japanese tyranny.

It was a totaly different situation then and now that both can not be equated.

I believe that it was the immature/unqualified Philippine leadership after the liberation that led us to this present misery.

America has changed over the years. Many of its known enemies are now integrated in its society and enjoying its freedom. They may now be a different race, but I believe that America still follows the ideals of G.I. Joe.

Mr. Ferniz,

I have done medical precepts in many hospitals in college, and when I did a medical intership in the Cleveland Clinic (the 3rd largest medical center in the USA) in summer of 2007, i did a rotation in podiatric surgery and podiatric orthopaedics with some colleagues and it was at the VA (Veteran's Affairs) Hospital system--linked with the Cleveland Clinic.

Many geriatric patient there that were suffering from peripheral neuropathy were veterans in the Pacific.

When they found out that I was Filipino-American, they told me of their stories and personal experiences. Such beautiful stories and heart-warming experiences that they had. One veteran was in Borgos, Leyte, and talked about how the Filipinos gave rice covered in banana leaves to the US soldiers; and some even recounted eating Filipino "odobo" hahahaha.

It is evident, sir, that the American veterans, military, of the past and the present have a warm place in their heart for the Philippines. It is why the United States will not suffer to have the Philippines attacked ever again.

The two nations are just too close.

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Re: The Philippine Claim Of The Spratly's
« Reply #21 on: March 05, 2009, 05:49:28 AM »
If we were able to scrap the US-Base Agreement before, we will be able to scrap VFA.

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Re: The Philippine Claim Of The Spratly's
« Reply #22 on: March 05, 2009, 05:51:12 AM »
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Re: The Philippine Claim Of The Spratly's
« Reply #23 on: March 05, 2009, 05:54:18 AM »
This is funny macky, because Guam and Puerto Rico were recognized as real territories of the US, and why the Philippines not?

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Re: The Philippine Claim Of The Spratly's
« Reply #24 on: March 05, 2009, 05:57:19 AM »
Let the course of History repeat itself. On Feb. 19, 2009. Sen. Francisco Pangilinan filed a Senate resolution urging President Gloria Arroyo to “revisit the provisions of the VFA and accordingly exercise our right to terminate the agreement considering that supervening events have rendered the VFA as unconstitutional.”

At least three other senators—Joker Arroyo, Miriam Defensor Santiago and Francis Escudero—have expressed support for the abrogation of the VFA, while Senators Rodolfo Biazon and Pia Cayetano were for its suspension. Senate President Juan Ponce Enrile and Sen. Panfilo Lacson have asked for more time to review the provisions of the treaty.

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Re: The Philippine Claim Of The Spratly's
« Reply #25 on: March 05, 2009, 05:57:49 AM »
The Positive Relationship between the United States and The Philippines:


The mayor of Narra accepts the new newly constructed school building that was a joint construction project between the Philippine and U.S. Seabees is part of Cooperative Afloat Readiness and Training (CARAT) 2008.


The mayor of Narra and the wife of Commodore Ramon P. Espera, Jr., Commander of Naval Forces West cut the ribbon opening the newly constructed school building that was a joint construction project between the Philippine and U.S. Seabees is part of Cooperative Afloat Readiness and Training (CARAT) 2008


Philippine Commodore Ramon Espera, Commander Naval Forces West, Philippine Rear Admiral Petronilo Magno, Commander, Philippine Fleet, and U.S. Navy Captain Mike Selby, Commander Destroyer Squadron One discuss the training outcomes as they officially end of the first phase of the 14th annual Cooperation Afloat Readiness and Training (CARAT) training exercise in Puerto Princesa, during the closing ceremonies held today at the Philippine Naval Forces West.


Ensign Elizabeth Burnett makes a new friend at Bihay Ni Nanay children’s center in Puerto Princesa, Philippines during a Community Relations (COMREL) project



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Re: The Philippine Claim Of The Spratly's
« Reply #27 on: March 05, 2009, 06:13:20 AM »
Guam can not be called a country because of its size and it was also considered as part of Hawaii Mainland. It was utilised as a refueling station until the majority of its residents were those who were from American Mainland. Guam like the Philippines and Puertorico were bought by the Americans from the Spanish through Treaty of Paris.

In the case of Puerto Rico, it was only the people who were given US Citizenship Puerto Rico remained as a country. They have every right as Americans like to vote, but not inside Puertorican territory. They were given the previledge of US citizenship as reward because the US used them during world war 1. Only citizenship, but the country is theirs. See the generousity of the Americans.

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Re: The Philippine Claim Of The Spratly's
« Reply #28 on: March 05, 2009, 06:19:09 AM »
Philippines and Cuba had different destinies compared to Puerto Rico and Guam.

Puerto Rico did not object to American presence, and the Puerto Ricans voted by majority vote to remain a Protectorate of the United States. This means that the Puerto Ricans have total autonomy. Regional and local control; they are given all the rights and benefits of the Americans, but don't have to pay US Taxes, ah that's the plus side. :)

Puerto Rico is the richest Caribbean island in the entire Caribbean. I have been to Puerto Rico, to San Juan.

I can say that the island is completely modernized. It is like being in the USA. Puerto Ricans speak not only Spanish, but also English. Infrastrucure is highly developed. Everything is overpriced in Puerto Rico. lol.

Philippines wanted independence, as it had a war with the US on that regard. The United States promised the Philippines independence, and thus it became a Commonwealth until its independence in 1946 (it was supposed to be in 1943, but the Japanese invasion postponed it).



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Re: The Philippine Claim Of The Spratly's
« Reply #29 on: March 05, 2009, 06:24:40 AM »
Mr. Ferniz,

This is an illustration of the level of modernity and growth Puerto Rico and its people enjoy under enlightened American Presence:


The city of San Juan, Puerto Rico


Note the infrastructure




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Re: The Philippine Claim Of The Spratly's
« Reply #30 on: March 05, 2009, 06:28:22 AM »
Guam can not be called a country because of its size and it was also considered as part of Hawaii Mainland. It was utilised as a refueling station until the majority of its residents were those who were from American Mainland. Guam like the Philippines and Puertorico were bought by the Americans from the Spanish through Treaty of Paris.

In the case of Puerto Rico, it was only the people who were given US Citizenship Puerto Rico remained as a country. They have every right as Americans like to vote, but not inside Puertorican territory. They were given the previledge of US citizenship as reward because the US used them during world war 1. Only citizenship, but the country is theirs. See the generousity of the Americans.

Something about Guam.

lol.

Over 70% of the people in Guam are Filipinos or are Part Filipino.

Guam is more of a Philippines than Guam.

:)

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Re: The Philippine Claim Of The Spratly's
« Reply #31 on: March 05, 2009, 06:46:40 AM »
One of the reasons why we should have the Spratlys is because it is mostly un-inhabited. We can install a Nuclear Power Plant over there and transport electricity via cable to mainland. With this, it can solve our high cost of energy. We can run factories the clean, emission free way and has less threat to the population.

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Re: The Philippine Claim Of The Spratly's
« Reply #32 on: March 05, 2009, 08:32:02 AM »
our claim of the spratly's, or part of it, is legitimate. and in the past years, our government and other ASEAN countries have forged  series of agreements to maintain peace in the region and development of the disputed islands.

Accordingly....

"Southeast Asian countries, concerned that Beijing might be strengthening its claim to much of the South China Sea, called for restraint and strict observance of international law in a high-level meeting with China in January 2000.

On 04 November 2002 the Governments of the Member States of ASEAN and the Government of the People's Republic of China signed the "Declaration on the Conduct of Parties in the South China Sea." The Parties undertook to exercise self-restraint in the conduct of activities in the South China Sea that would complicate or escalate disputes and affect peace and stability including, among others, refraining from action of inhabiting on the presently uninhabited islands, reefs, shoals, cays, and other features and to handle their differences in a constructive manner.

China and the Philippines have discussed possible joint exploration for petroleum in the disputed Spratly Islands in the South China Sea. The speaker of the Philippine House of Representatives, Jose de Venecia, said the chairman of China's parliament, Wu Bannguo, made the proposal 31 August 2003 during talks in Manila. China also pledged to increase investment in the Philippines. Chinese Foreign Minister Li Zhaoxing vowed to increase investments in the Philippines to match the growing Philippine investment in China. The two ministers also discussed the territorial disputes in the South China Sea.

In September 2003 representatives of the Philippines, China and other claimant countries of the Spratly Islands signed a declaration of peace to promote the development of the resources in the disputed islands. The declaration was signed at the Asian Association of Parliaments for Peace (AAPP) conference in the Philippines.

In March 2005, the national oil companies of China, the Philippines, and Vietnam signed a joint accord to conduct marine seismic experiments in the Spratly Islands for economic purposes.

Suggested confidence-building measures among claimant countries include joint research and development in the Spratlys. Among the suggestions to enhance the development of the Spratly Islands include the creation of a marine park; establishment of a South China Sea Institute for Marine Resources Management, conducting a joint survey and assessment of the mineral and hydrocarbon potential and implementation of maritime safety and surveillance measures.

The Spratly Islands dispute eased since the 1990s. This was due, in part, to China's rising economic stature and the interdependency it, in turn, fostered amongst Asian nations. China knows that any crisis in the South China Sea could severely restrict the commercial shipping traffic that is vital to their continued prosperity. Another contributor to the relative calm is fact that proven oil reserves in the area are disappointingly low." (googled)

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Re: The Philippine Claim Of The Spratly's
« Reply #33 on: March 05, 2009, 09:55:04 AM »
Thank You for the clarification, Glacier. And strengthening my position. :)

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Re: The Philippine Claim Of The Spratly's
« Reply #34 on: March 05, 2009, 09:59:43 AM »
One of the reasons why we should have the Spratlys is because it is mostly un-inhabited. We can install a Nuclear Power Plant over there and transport electricity via cable to mainland. With this, it can solve our high cost of energy. We can run factories the clean, emission free way and has less threat to the population.

Indeed, Mr. Ferniz.

It is of strategic interest for the Republic due to its possible role in contributing to the Philippines--our own indigenous sustainable resource. And we have a reason for it. With the Republic's population soaring--and expected to hit over 100 Million in less than a decade, the Republic is hungry for energy.

The Scarborough Shoals and the Spratlys is the answer to our needs. The Philippines, literally, is sitting on top of a gold mine.

Another gold mine is the Marianas Trench that lies within Philippine Territorial Claims. The Marianas Trench is estimated to hold untold amount of billions of gallons of oil.
The oil is there; the Philippines merely needs to develop the method to extract it.

The Republic is rich in natural resources. All we have to do now, is to protect and ascertain our resources. And defend it from hungry mouths of our neighbours. Especially one that lies to our west. China is the largest threat to Philippine territorial sovereignty.

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Re: The Philippine Claim Of The Spratly's
« Reply #35 on: March 05, 2009, 10:25:59 AM »
I will admit that in the past, before taking multiple courses on Global Security and Policies in college, I didnt' really know about the true nature of the Chinese and their government. And when one studies history and international politics, you will understand that the Chinese are rather dubious in regards to politics.

Per se, an example, in 1962, before the Chinese invaded India's Aksai Chin and Arunal Pradesh State, the People's Republic of China sent its most trusted revolutionary politician, Zhou Enlai to meet and talk with Nehru regarding the hostility in the border. Enlai assured Nehru and the Indian Congress of the solidarity of the Chinese and of Beijing's promise to evade conflict between the two Asian Powers.

Days after his official state visit, The People's Republic of China launched the largest offensive of the PLA beyond China. Divisions of Chinese troops attacked Indian outposts in Aksai Chin and throughout A.Pradesh. The overwhelming Chinese offensive completely overtook the Indian defenders, who were numerically disadvantaged.

The war was due to the Chinese opposition to India's defense of the McMahon Line, the line that the British drew that set in place the territorial span of its Indian colony. Instead of dealing with the Indians peacefully, the Chinese utilized a rather dubious backstabbing tactic.

By:
1) Sending a highly respected official, Minister Zhou Enlai
2) Assuring the Indians that China will not utilize force--and reiterating the notion of 'Hindi-Chini Bhai Bhai' (Indian-Chinese Brotherhood)
3) And then Invading India outright.

As that is what the Chinese did in 1962; forcing the Indians to sue for peace.

Again, the Chinese government invaded Vietnam in 1979 to 'punish' Vietnam for toppling over the genocidal Khmer Rouge led by Pol Pot. The Chinese rationality was completely unfounded. They would rather maintain the Khmer Rouge because of its solidarity with Beijing, despite the fact that the Khmer Rouge was responsible for the deaths of over 2 million Cambodians (literally 1/4th of the entire country's population)
China, invaded and bombarded over 4 of Vietnam's northern provinces.

A total violation of national integrity and unity.

And now we, the Filipino People, are expected to completely and foolish trust the Chinese on their word? Absolutely not.

The Filipino and the Philippines is not a nation of fools, but a nation of educated individuals. The only reason why the Philippines has not bee invaded by the Chinese is due to the fact that we are an Archipelagoic nation. And China's limited naval capability.

For the mean time, it is undoubted that it is imperative that the Philippines maintain its claims for the preservation of National Integrity and Territoriality. It is our RIGHT to defend our territory and the soil of the Philippines. And critical to our defense is our alliance with the United States. Manila's close relationship with Washington, indeed, is a significant factor why the Philippines has not suffered a foreign war since its independence in 1946.

I for one, and am sure many of my Filipino countrymen agree with me on this, that we are lucky. And that it is the duty of the Filipino soldier and the Politicians in Government to ascertain The Manifest Destiny of the Philippine Fatherland.


Lorenzo

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Re: The Philippine Claim Of The Spratly's
« Reply #36 on: March 05, 2009, 11:51:30 AM »
the strength of our claim comes simply from the following:

1. our sovereignty over the territories in the Spratly Is. that sit within our boundary
2. power coming from the support of the United States
3. belief in the power of diplomacy

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Re: The Philippine Claim Of The Spratly's
« Reply #37 on: March 08, 2009, 11:23:00 PM »
Indeed, Mr. Ferniz.

It is of strategic interest for the Republic due to its possible role in contributing to the Philippines--our own indigenous sustainable resource. And we have a reason for it. With the Republic's population soaring--and expected to hit over 100 Million in less than a decade, the Republic is hungry for energy.

The Scarborough Shoals and the Spratlys is the answer to our needs. The Philippines, literally, is sitting on top of a gold mine.

Another gold mine is the Marianas Trench that lies within Philippine Territorial Claims. The Marianas Trench is estimated to hold untold amount of billions of gallons of oil.
The oil is there; the Philippines merely needs to develop the method to extract it.

The Republic is rich in natural resources. All we have to do now, is to protect and ascertain our resources. And defend it from hungry mouths of our neighbours. Especially one that lies to our west. China is the largest threat to Philippine territorial sovereignty.

Lorenzo,

The gold mine you said in the Marianas Trench is not oil, but huge deposit of Deuterium or "Heavy Water" the fuel of the future.

(from Wikipedia)
Heavy water is water that contains a higher proportion than normal of the isotope deuterium, as deuterium oxide, D2O or ²H2O, or as deuterium protium oxide, HDO or ¹H²HO.[1] Its physical and chemical properties are somewhat similar to those of water, H2O.

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Re: The Philippine Claim Of The Spratly's
« Reply #38 on: March 08, 2009, 11:25:26 PM »
Lorenzo,

The gold mine you said in the Marianas Trench is not oil, but huge deposit of Deuterium or "Heavy Water" the fuel of the future.

(from Wikipedia)
Heavy water is water that contains a higher proportion than normal of the isotope deuterium, as deuterium oxide, D2O or ²H2O, or as deuterium protium oxide, HDO or ¹H²HO.[1] Its physical and chemical properties are somewhat similar to those of water, H2O.

is there really a deuterium deposit here, macks? i've heard this way way before, i think when i was in high school.

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Re: The Philippine Claim Of The Spratly's
« Reply #39 on: March 08, 2009, 11:33:07 PM »
The Marianas Trench is gold mine; if what Mr. Ferniz says is true, then that would make the Philippines  a potential energy supplier of the future.

This would revolutionize the Republic, the very same way when the Arabs of Saudi Arabia were propelled to success and economic fame when Oil was discovered in their desert plains.



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Re: The Philippine Claim Of The Spratly's
« Reply #40 on: March 08, 2009, 11:38:51 PM »
it was said, that if we could develop or harness the deuterium deposit, filipinos will be flying on their own like IronMan-effect. hahahaha.

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Re: The Philippine Claim Of The Spratly's
« Reply #41 on: March 08, 2009, 11:44:20 PM »
The Philippines is blessed with natural resources. It is the duty of the Filipinos to defend it. And extract it. ;D

By virtue of economics and trade, the United States will be one of the largest consumers of said energy source, if ever it is extracted.

Just a China enjoys hundreds of Billions of Dollars worth of American investment, so, too, will the Philippines.

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Re: The Philippine Claim Of The Spratly's
« Reply #42 on: March 08, 2009, 11:47:13 PM »
they say, we're poor sitting on a rags of gold.

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Re: The Philippine Claim Of The Spratly's
« Reply #43 on: March 08, 2009, 11:54:32 PM »
Deuterium or "Heavy Water" the fuel of the future.
Yes this is true. But I know that these are produced in Heavy water plants solely for nuclear purposes.

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Re: The Philippine Claim Of The Spratly's
« Reply #44 on: March 08, 2009, 11:57:10 PM »
Yes Manay Tess,

Deuterium is a necessary component for nuclear power plants. Inasmuch as nuclear power can be used for military defense, nuclear power plants also use deuterium to fuel the system.

Nuclear power is a renewable resource. If properly maintained, can provide limitless energy.
The two energy resources of the future are: 1) Nuclear Power and 2) Hydrogen Fuel Cells.



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Macky Ferniz

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Re: The Philippine Claim Of The Spratly's
« Reply #45 on: March 09, 2009, 12:05:36 AM »
Since I was in high school I've heared this story too.

By the way, Deuterium is the main component/substance for the controversial "Cold Fusion" theory claimed by two scientists Pons and Flieschmann. However, they become silent which led to rummors of pay-off from major oil corporations.

(from Wikepedia)
Cold fusion (sometimes referred to as low energy nuclear reaction (LENR) studies or condensed matter nuclear science[1]) refers to nuclear fusion which occurs without the extremely high temperatures (millions of degrees Celsius) required for thermonuclear fusion – for example, muon-catalysed fusion.

Cold fusion made worldwide news headlines in March 1989, when Martin Fleischmann and Stanley Pons held a news conference in which they reported producing nuclear fusion in a tabletop experiment involving electrolysis of heavy water on a palladium (Pd) electrode.[2] They reported anomalous heat production ("excess heat") of a magnitude they asserted would defy explanation except in terms of nuclear processes.[3] They further reported measuring small amounts of nuclear reaction byproducts, including neutrons and tritium.[4] These reports raised hopes of a cheap and abundant source of energy.[5]

More readings: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cold_fusion


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Lorenzo

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Re: The Philippine Claim Of The Spratly's
« Reply #46 on: March 09, 2009, 12:07:29 AM »
 Mr. Ferniz,

There are only few scientists around the world who are active in cold fusion research. Am sure there were 'pay offs' from oil companies; as it is a threat to their lucrative business.

But am sure, when reserves for oil dissipates, there will be a reversal.



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