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Miriam defends Phl diplomatic protest vs China on Spratlys

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MANILA, Philippines -  Sen. Miriam Defensor-Santiago defended yesterday the move of the government to file a diplomatic protest against the People’s Republic of China (PROC) after two Chinese ships harassed a government research vessel conducting an oil exploration mission near the disputed Spratly Islands last March 2.

Santiago, a constitutional and international law expert, said the Philippines merely pursued its territorial claim over the disputed islands when it responded to a call from the research vessel for assistance after two Chinese ships hovered around them while conducting their seismic survey in the area.

Santiago said under international law, a claimant country should be aggressive in seeking its claim to a disputed territory.

“The claim should be continuous and uninterrupted. You should always enforce your claim,” said Santiago who also explained that the Chinese actions might have also been an effort to re-assert its claim over the disputed islands.

Santiago told radio dzBB that the ownership claims would still take a long time to be resolved.

She even doubted if the country claimants, especially China, would allow the issue to be heard before the International Court of Justice (ICJ).

“I am sure China will not allow this. (The issue) will never reach the ICJ. In other words, it will never have a judicial settlement,” Santiago said.

Asked if the recent incident would affect the government’s appeal to stay the execution of three Filipinos who were sentenced to die last month for drug trafficking, Santiago did not rule out the possibility that China might use the Spratlys issue to further its cause.

http://www.philstar.com/Article.aspx?articleId=663794&publicationSubCategoryId=63

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Re: Miriam defends Phl diplomatic protest vs China on Spratlys
« Reply #2 on: March 13, 2011, 11:22:50 PM »
MANILA, Philippines -  Sen. Miriam Defensor-Santiago defended yesterday the move of the government to file a diplomatic protest against the People’s Republic of China (PROC) after two Chinese ships harassed a government research vessel conducting an oil exploration mission near the disputed Spratly Islands last March 2.

Santiago, a constitutional and international law expert, said the Philippines merely pursued its territorial claim over the disputed islands when it responded to a call from the research vessel for assistance after two Chinese ships hovered around them while conducting their seismic survey in the area.

Santiago said under international law, a claimant country should be aggressive in seeking its claim to a disputed territory.

“The claim should be continuous and uninterrupted. You should always enforce your claim,” said Santiago who also explained that the Chinese actions might have also been an effort to re-assert its claim over the disputed islands.

Santiago told radio dzBB that the ownership claims would still take a long time to be resolved.

She even doubted if the country claimants, especially China, would allow the issue to be heard before the International Court of Justice (ICJ).

“I am sure China will not allow this. (The issue) will never reach the ICJ. In other words, it will never have a judicial settlement,” Santiago said.

Asked if the recent incident would affect the government’s appeal to stay the execution of three Filipinos who were sentenced to die last month for drug trafficking, Santiago did not rule out the possibility that China might use the Spratlys issue to further its cause.

http://www.philstar.com/Article.aspx?articleId=663794&publicationSubCategoryId=63

Well considering that Philippines has now recognized the PRC and adheres to the One China Policy, thereby abandoning political recognition of Taiwan as 'China', we have already become part of the Chinese Sphere of Control/ Interest. Part of the greater Chinese plan of regional Chinese Hegemony.

We'll see what they do in 4-5 decades time when they have eclipsed America. Just watch how 'diplomatic' the Chinese government will be. She will swallow the whole Spratley chain as she did Arunchal Pradesh (a former Indian territory).

The Philippine Marine base in the Kalayaan group would be overwhelmed by Chinese Naval Marines. Remember China's tactical policy: strike first, strike hard, strike to overwhelm. Where there is a battalion of Philippine Marines, China will send an entire army corp to overwhelm any opposition.

If she claims all of Spratlys, what then would stop her from claiming all of Philippines in the future? If she plays the UN's Law of the Sea policy.

tsk tsk tsk.   :-\



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Re: Miriam defends Phl diplomatic protest vs China on Spratlys
« Reply #3 on: March 13, 2011, 11:37:20 PM »
just a thought... maybe the philippines should stop calling the sea 'south china sea' for starters.  naming the whole area after one country is encouraging for that country to claim everything in it as its own.  

in the middle east, there's a disputed island named kish that's being claimed by both the united arab emirates and iran.  naturally, it remains unsettled until now.  the thing is what used to be the 'persian gulf' surrounded by most of these middle east countries (and where kish is) is now called the 'arabian gulf'.  there really was no sense naming the gulf after only one country such as iran (persia).  

why a sea surrounded by many countries including the philippines be named only after china challenges one's imagination.



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Re: Miriam defends Phl diplomatic protest vs China on Spratlys
« Reply #4 on: March 13, 2011, 11:51:14 PM »
MANILA, Philippines -  Sen. Miriam Defensor-Santiago defended yesterday the move of the government to file a diplomatic protest against the People’s Republic of China (PROC) after two Chinese ships harassed a government research vessel conducting an oil exploration mission near the disputed Spratly Islands last March 2.

Santiago, a constitutional and international law expert, said the Philippines merely pursued its territorial claim over the disputed islands when it responded to a call from the research vessel for assistance after two Chinese ships hovered around them while conducting their seismic survey in the area.



http://www.philstar.com/Article.aspx?articleId=663794&publicationSubCategoryId=63

Mr. Santiago, the Chinese don't care for international sea laws. If She did she would have never had destroyed a Vietnamese battle group during a disputed claim of Vietnamese-claimed spratlys.( A Chinese naval battle group sunk and destroyed the Vietnamese battle group....)

Why would the Philippines send a government research vessel by itself in disputed territory? Stupid!

The research vessel should have been given Philippine naval escort. They should have deployed 3 escort corvettes and should have fired warning shots against the 2 Chinese vessels. It was a government ship. An attack on a government ship is an act of war.

By giving into China's bullying, we indirectly submit to her supposed hegemony and strengthen their bold claims.

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Re: Miriam defends Phl diplomatic protest vs China on Spratlys
« Reply #5 on: March 13, 2011, 11:56:54 PM »
just a thought... maybe the philippines should stop calling the sea 'south china sea' for starters.  naming the whole area after one country is encouraging for that country to claim everything in it as its own. 

in the middle east, there's a disputed island named kish that's being claimed by both the united arab emirates and iran.  naturally, it remains unsettled until now.  the thing is what used to be the 'persian gulf' surrounded by most of these middle east countries (and where kish is) is now called the 'arabian gulf'.  there really was no sense naming the gulf after only one country such as iran (persia). 

why a sea surrounded by many countries including the philippines be named only after china challenges one's imagination.



right. and where do the chinese get this 'historical' claim basis. just because Zheng He was sent in a mission in the 1600s and visited the reef, therefore the PRC claims historical claim? chshitt na chshitt. Old malay (filipino) fishermen have been fishing these waters since time immemorial.

right. Philippines should just actively call the 'south china sea' as 'The Western Philippine Sea'. ;)

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Re: Miriam defends Phl diplomatic protest vs China on Spratlys
« Reply #6 on: March 14, 2011, 08:32:13 PM »
i think china will stop bullying its small neighbors and weaken its claim on spratly when this scenario will happen...

we are not advocating war here, its just a "what if" scenario posted by el_commandante from timawa.net

PART 1 (posted by EL COMMANDANTE FROM TIMAWA.NET)

Guys, if you have the time please read this post, Very Happy  take note I am not advocating a war here. I was already admonished by Opus for this. I wrote this post to serve as an outline for the book that I am planning to write, if I find the time. I would need your suggestion, inputs, and criticism.


GLOSSARY
PROC: People’s Republic of China
PLA: People’s Liberation Army
PLAAF: People’s Liberation Army Air force
PLAN: People’s Liberation Army Navy
ChiCom: Chinese communist


Republic of China or ROC   Taiwan’s official name
ROCAF: Republic of China Air Force



A scenario of US, China conflict.

China’s emerging status as a superpower is undeniable. Her rapid economic expansion makes her a manufacturing giant; in technology she is fast catching up with the west, Japan, and Korea, China in fact has recently acquired the pc unit of IBM corporation. China is now the third country to launch a manned mission in the space, and is expected to launch a manned mission on the moon within twenty years.

The USA can sneer that they landed on the moon first in 1969. But the US must remember that was 36 years ago, since then the growth of space exploration has stunted. China’s space agency has a yearly budget of only 2 billion dollars, while NASA’s yearly budget is bigger than the Philippine foreign debt. Imagine if China’s space agency has a budget of just half of NASA’s budget, she could send a manned mission to mars!

So why am I telling this? Because space is the future battleground of the USA and China, for technological supremacy, it maybe good for mankind because space exploration has commercial and military application.

Taiwan no doubt is the main thorn in the US, China relations, but even if Taiwan reunified peacefully with China, rivalry between US and China would remain not because of China’s communist ideology. It is because man cannot live without a rival, future enemy, and traditional enemy. Like the Greek and Turkish rivalry, Japan versus China, Russia and Korea. The Arabs versus the Jews, Kurds, and Christians. Since China is the only country that could threaten the US sole status as a superpower therefore it is only logical for the US to prevent that from happening at all cost. This is the reason why the USA would come to the rescue of Taiwan in the event of Chinese invasion, China has Hong Kong already, and a combined China, HK, and Taiwan economy is a nightmare for the USA.

The year is 2016, in this scenario; China now the third largest economy in the world after Japan, invaded Taiwan (disguised as a mere military exercise) after announcing its intention to declare independence, which is not really surprising because, Taiwan for years had been insisting that it is separate from China. Unable to defend herself Taiwan beg the US to come to her rescue, The US would come to Taiwan’s rescue anyway even if Taiwan do not ask for it explicitly. Prior to the invasion of Taiwan, Chinese commercial vessels are expected to block the Panama canal, and Suez canal by deliberately sabotaging the ships while passing through that canals. The US navy carrier battle group in the mediterranean and Atlantic would be unable to come quickly to the rescue of Taiwan, because of the mammoth obstacles in the canals that are made of steel.

Prior to the invasion, China’s communist ally North Korea under pressure from China would raise its alert status by moving nearly a million troops, thousand’s of artillery, tanks, and IFV near the DMZ separating North Korea to South Korea. Nokor air force is flying close to the border with activated radar, Nokor navy ships flagrantly intruded the sea border separating the two Korea. The purpose of this provocative action by North Korea and China is to tie up the US forces in South Korea, and Japan, thus preventing the US forces to automatically come to the rescue of Taiwan fearing that North Korea might attack South Korea.
Taiwan is expected to fight with ferocity of a lion; she has one of the best air force in Asia such as the F16, Mirage 2000, and Ching Kuo fighters, though ageing already Taiwan periodically upgrade its fleet of about 550 aircraft thus attaining an operational readiness of 90%. But the Taiwanese navy is no match for its giant rival. The eight diesel submarines ordered by Taiwan from the United States could not be completed because of internal politics, and when the order for the acquisition of submarines was finally given a go signal by the Taiwanese government it was too late! The invasion has just begun, (code name: operation Dragon’s reach) but Taiwan has six La Fayette class stealth frigates, nine second hand ex USN frigates and destroyers, two ageing Dutch made submarine and ten squadron of locally developed missile boats equipped with harpoon ASM and indigenously developed missile system, definitely no match to PLAN’s powerful submarine fleet of about forty, a combination of seventy five destroyers, and frigates, including Russian made destroyers, and thousands of missile boats and hovercraft for beachhead landing. (Like the Normandy beachhead landing)

In this scenario, at about 0200 hours Christmas day, China pursuant to the implementation of its tough anti secession law and using it as one of the justifications for the invasion, launched a barrage of surface-to-surface missiles, a mix of Chinese, and Russian made, to Taiwanese cities, military installations and bases. (On another angle this is not really an invasion, Taiwan is part of China, the UN and the whole world recognize China’s sovereignty over Taiwan. Therefore this action by China is a mere enforcement of the law.) Chinese warplanes such as SU27SK, SU30MK, heavy bombers, J8 and J10 fighters whose production China had just completed for a total of 900 aircraft replacing the ageing J7 fighters, flew in a coordinated attack to establish air superiority with the SU30Mk armed with anti ship sunburn missile devoted to hunt Taiwanese navy ships. In this air and naval attack China is guided by five radar planes, the Chinese version of AWACS acquired with some technical assistance from Israel, Russia, and Europe when the latter partially lifted its arms embargo against China. Included in this air armada are twelve air refueling tanker a converted Boeing aircraft. The US knew that China is converting the aircraft to flying fuel tanker, but has decided to keep silent about it for fearing it might lose the huge Chinese market for commercial aircraft.

The sky over the Taiwan strait (it is more than a hundred miles separating China from Taiwan) was filled by more than four hundred warplanes, And in the sea, thousands of ships including commandeered commercial ships loaded with armored infantry vehicles, and Type 90 main battle tanks sailed toward Taiwan, and in the tiny Taiwanese island of Quemoy, the island nearest to China than Taiwan. This tiny island is Taiwan’s first line of defense against China.

Taiwan, and the US knew that the invasion was imminent but could not agree when exactly it would be launched, but they were not caught off guard, alerted of the incoming fighters, and bombers by the ROCAF AWACS flying 24 hours a day, Taiwan immediately launch its F16A, Mirage2000 and Ching Kuo fighters a total of 235 fighters. Within minutes of detecting each other over the Taiwan straits, the Chinese and Taiwanese fighters launched a salvo of beyond visual range or BVR missiles (R-77 versus AMRAAM) against each other, but effective counter measure such as electronic, radar jamming, and decoys by ROCAF defeated the first salvo of BVR missiles by the PLAAF, only a few of the ROCAF fighters were shot down by the R-77 missile, not to be outdone the PLAAF fighters are armed also with counter measure although not as effective like the Taiwanese fighters. In the initial air-to-air engagement the ROCAF fighters shot down about 23 percent of the PLAAF fighters, but the PLAAF numerical superiority and aided by PLAN destroyers firing SAM to the ROCAF fighters negates Taiwan’s advantage in electronic warfare technology. Airpower historians later would describe it as the largest radar missile shootout ever. Soon both sides are now on the visual range, this time dogfighting skill, and maneuverability of the aircraft would play a big role in this knife fight. In a show of superb flying skill by the Taiwanese pilots, The ROCAF dominated the knife fight, but the dogfight was very difficult on both sides because it was nighttime and visual contact even with NVG is still limited. The similarity between the J10 and F16 made it more difficult on both sides to shoot at each other; during the rumble of the ROCAF and PLAAF fighters, as a result some of the fighters were victims of friendly fire. Bright flashes indicating a hit could be seen everywhere, missile shots from the sidewinder and PL-8 was like a shooting stars flying horizontally. The ROCAF eventually won this round, but it was a Pyrric victory some 40 percent of its fighters were shot down. The PLAAF before fleeing did manage to fire some of its cruise missiles heading to Taiwan inflicting only minor damages, because most of the cruise missiles were intercepted by the land based CIWS.



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Re: Miriam defends Phl diplomatic protest vs China on Spratlys
« Reply #7 on: March 14, 2011, 08:33:53 PM »
PART 2

Taiwan knew that it could not sustain an air war of similar magnitude like this. Her fleet of F16, Mirage2000, and, Ching Kuo including the reserve has shrunk to about 350 fighters. But the PLAAF learned a lesson in that air war, the next wave of attack would be much smaller to conserve its fleet of fighters. The next attack would be about eight squadrons only.

The situation in the sea was different, the Taiwanese navy was decimated by the barrage of sunburn and silkworm missiles, the naval engagement was beyond the horizon battle. But the Taiwanese submarine got lucky, lying deep in the sea on an ambush mode, the submarine managed to sink two Russian made Sovremenny class missile destroyers, China’s most advance destroyers. But the Taiwanese Submarine paid a heavy price by firing her torpedo; she revealed her location and was soon sunk by a Kilo class submarine of the PLAN.

Within thirteen minutes after the air and naval war had begun, president Arnold Schwarzenneger, (America’s first foreign born president after the US Constitution was amended) was informed of the battle of the Taiwan Strait, He immediately alerted all US forces particularly the US seventh fleet based in the pacific. In a live address to the American people he told them of his decision to help defend the democratic and peace loving people of Taiwan against the communist tyranny. The decision to come to the rescue of Taiwan was swift because, the US contingency plan long before the Chinese invasion is to help Taiwan, and, the invasion was expected it was discussed already at the pentagon and white house situation room for months. Unknown to the American people a Xia class nuclear submarine is on stationed 75 miles off the coast of New York, but the Chinese submarine has been detected and tailed by a seawolf class attack submarine, the USS Bill Clinton. Bureaucratic delay, squabbling by the joint chiefs, turf war by the three services of the military, and late minute war planning at the Pentagon delayed the swift response of the US for 7 hours.

The President of the Philippines Manuel Roxas was informed of the attack at about the same time the US president was informed. Although the Philippines is neutral “publicly” he immediately alerted the 5th fighter wing at Basa airbase to be vigilant and conduct a sky patrol over the northern Luzon, and the navy, and air force in Palawan in case the conflict spilled into the Spratly islands, a new dual use airport that can accommodate huge cargo aircraft, radar, and listening post station at Batanes island in Northern Philippines built and funded by the United States Military for joint use with the AFP were immediately placed on red alert

The Philippines is just coming out of economic crisis, although she had finally licked her chronic budget deficit, her military modernization program is still in the drawing board because every grandstanding politician wants to have a say in the AFP modernization. On the bright side the PAF is now armed with 18 KFIR, 18 F5E, and 12 F1 Mirage fighters. The PN is now armed with 15 locally built missile boats including 6 corvettes, built by the Cebu based shipyards. The Philippine Army is now equipped with NATO standard combat gear.

Prior to the invasion and unknown to the Filipino people, President Mar Roxas has made a secret pact with US President Arnold Schwarzenegger to secretly support the US forces in case the US decided to come to the rescue of Taiwan. But it was a pact with a price; President Roxas shrewdly demanded that the US must give a debt relief to the Philippines 80 billion-dollar foreign debt, including a 1% only tariff for its agricultural, garments, and electronic export, new loan guarantee, the transfer of 36 F/A18E fighters, 48 blackhawk helicopters, and 5 C130 to the PAF, and the transfer of 8 mothballed frigates and destroyers to the PN. The US reluctantly agreed on a condition that the Philippine’s support for the conflict must be firmed, solid, or an all out support. President Roxas agreed that support for the United States, and Taiwan would be unconditional, but it is a kind of support that he would neither confirm nor deny to avoid constitutional question.

The US air force secretly based over 100 VSTOL F35, and F/A22 multi role fighters all over central and northern Luzon and 1 squadron of F/A18E fighters in Palawan; some of the fighters were openly parked at Basa and Clark air force base, under the pretense of joint military exercise with the PAF. The US navy also deployed 8 P3C surveillance and anti submarine aircraft armed with harpoon, tomahawk, and torpedoes in the US built airport in General Santos city in Mindanao. Its mission is to protect US warships passing through the Malacca strait and China Sea from the PLAN submarines based in Hainan. The US military also secretly based all over the northern and western Luzon a new aircraft the robotic UCAV or Unmanned Combat Air Vehicle. UCAV purpose is to effectively and affordably prosecute 21st century lethal strike missions within the emerging global command and control architecture. The operational UCAV system is envisioned as a force enabler that will conduct Suppression of Enemy Air Defense (SEAD) and strike missions in support of post-2010 manned strike packages

At 0730 hours the PLA finally landed on the western, southern, and northern Taiwan, PLA commandos stage a deadly sabotage and behind enemy line operation. Hundreds of thousands of PLA soldiers hit the beaches; tanks, IFV, and artillery began rolling out the barge, hovercraft, and LST. The Taiwanese army was not surprised at the landing site; intelligence report including non stop flight of UAV armed with hellfire missiles and US satellite reconnaissance, monitored the exact spot where the PLA intend to land. Within 2 kilometers of actual landing at the shore Taiwanese artillery, land based anti ship missiles, multiple launch rocket system, cobra, and apache attack helicopters, ground attack jets, began its bloody massacre of the PLA. Historians would later describe it as the massacre at the sea, but the PLA soldiers were admired even by their Taiwanese enemies for their tenacity, patriotism, and bravery, undaunted by the massacre of the meat grinding war machine of the Taiwanese army, the PLA continued its attack this time supported by the missile launching boats, submarines, and land based missiles firing their weapons beyond the horizon. But it was of little use because the Taiwanese army was heavily camouflaged, dug in, and scattered, The PLA beached landing in western Taiwan was a debacle. At 1100 hours there was a breakthrough in Northern Taiwan, the PLA managed to land successfully and push away the brave Taiwanese army, MBT and IFV began rolling through the Taiwanese capital of Taipei intent to capture the Taiwanese president, the seat of government, parliament, and the general staff of the Taiwanese military. The Chinese believe that the capture of Taipei would demoralize the Taiwanese army. But the opposite happened, the threat of the capital’s capture galvanized the whole Taiwanese army to fight to the last man, fierce tank battles were seen near the capital. But Taiwan’s rugged terrain works in favor of the Taiwanese army they ambushed many of the PLA tanks.


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Re: Miriam defends Phl diplomatic protest vs China on Spratlys
« Reply #8 on: March 14, 2011, 08:36:18 PM »
LAST PART

The US finally entered the war at 0930 hours, F/A22 fighters took off from Basa and Clark Field air force base, F35 VSTOL flew along side the F/A22 for a deep strike ground attack mission armed with JSOW, HARM, hellfire and a mix of AIM-120 and sidewinder missiles. It was an awesome and frightening sight for the Filipino people who saw the flight of over a hundred fighters taking off one by one at secret military bases, they knew that for the first time since the end of World War II the Philippines is being sucked up again by the United States in another war. Meanwhile in the streets of manila leftwing radicals, and grandstanding politicians are rallying against the Philippines quiet participation in the war, but their silence regarding China’s invasion of Taiwan revealed their real motive.

The USAF finally join in the actual fight before noon, they dropped JSOW, cluster bombs, and the most lethal of all is the FAE bomb (FAE is the most powerful conventional bomb also known as mini atom bomb) at the trapped PLA forces in western Taiwan. CNN and BBC news would later describe the killing of the Chinese soldiers as overkill an excessive use of force against an enemy, because the PLA soldiers were already encircled, and trapped at the beach.

US B52, and B1E lancer bombers based in Guam fired their latest weapons against PLAN navy ships in northern Taiwan using tomahawk cruise missile and the new HarpoonX the latter is an advance version of the old harpoon anti ship missile, it can fly longer, supersonic and designed to counter decoys and counter measures. One by one PLAN ships began sinking.

The US navy’s Pacific fleet couldn’t get in time but F/A18E fighters escorted by the air force air tankers were able to join in the mission striking targets mostly, tanks, IFV, and artillery of the PLA, UCAV based in the Philippines armed with hellfire and AIM-120 missiles destroyed more than 600 tanks, IFV and artillery, it managed to shot down several F8, and J10 fighters of the PLAAF

By 1600 hours the 101st air assault division also known as the screaming eagles, began parachuting over the sky of Taiwan in a High altitude landing operation or HALO. The purpose of the HALO jump from large transport aircraft is to avoid Chinese anti aircraft missile or SAM. The US Special Forces mission is to hunt and fight PLA commandos leaving the conventional fighting to the Taiwanese army. In addition to their mission is to serve as forward air controller for all the US aircraft conducting strike mission.

In western Philippines north of the Spratly islands and China Sea, US navy’s squadron of P3C Orion began hunting the PLAN submarines, and attack boats that are blocking the free passage of trade and commerce. China’s declaration of sovereignty in the whole of China Sea and express prohibition of civilian and military ships passing through that sea during the invasion of Taiwan is one of the justifications used by the US to act militarily against the PROC. Dropping a floating sonar in the sea the P3C Orion detected and sunk nearly a dozen PLAN submarines and missile boats. In one incident a lone P3C was flying without an escort of fighters when the F/A18E squadron was diverted to northern Philippines to support the embattled Taiwanese forces. The P3C aircraft was being chased by four SU27SK fighters of the PLAAF with the intention to shoot it with 30mm cannon because the P3C is armed with electronic and radar jammer thus the SU27SK were unable to shoot it with missiles. Unable to defend itself against the faster and agile fighters of the PLAAF it called for help, the Philippine Air Force happens to have 2 F5E tigershark fighters armed with Israeli made Phyton5 missiles patrolling near the area. But the two PAF fighters couldn’t come to the rescue of the P3C plane because under the PAF rules of engagement PAF pilots are not allowed to engage the Chinese fighters unless they enter the Philippine air space or territory and after three repeated warnings for the aircraft to leave the Philippine territory or land peacefully at nearby airfield, and visual sighting of the aircraft is a must. The four Chicom fighters soon entered the Philippine airspace, they ignored the warning of the 2 PAF fighters to leave because the Chinese pilots considered the PAF as the laughing stock of Asia, the four SU27SK fighters continued pursuing the P3C Orion. The US navy plane was about to be killed by the 30mm cannon of the SU27SK when they detected the two F5E fighters of the PAF radioing them to leave. The four SU27SK fighters of the PLAAF decided to engage instead the two F5E fighters of the PAF. “To kill a defenseless enemy aircraft like the P3C is an honor, but to kill an armed jet fighter is a glory”

The Chinese pilots over confidence worked against them, it was a fight of 4 to 2 in China’s favor, and both sides fired missiles at each other, The PAF pilots happen to be members of the blue diamond aerial acrobatic team, in a stunning display of aerial acrobatic skill aided by flares, decoys, and electronic counter measure, the PAF pilots managed to evade the heat seeking short range missiles of the SU27SK, but the Phyton5 missiles fired by the F5E slammed into one of the SU27SK. Phyton5 is fired through a bore sight of the helmet-mounted sights (HMS) of the F5E. Now the dogfight is 3 to 2 still in China’s favor, the SU27SK is a superior fighter compared with the F5E, it is faster, can climb higher, fly longer, and very agile. During the aerial ballet dogfight one of the SU27SK fired its 30mm cannon but couldn’t hit their target because the F5E is very small and agile as well. But superior flying skill regardless of the flight worthiness of the aircraft proved to be beneficial to the PAF pilots, soon the fight was reversed the SU27SK fighters playing the role of the hunters become the hunted, one of the SU27SK tried the cobra maneuver to evade the chasing F5E fighter but the PAF pilot was trained to expect that maneuver, it immediately fired its last remaining missile, it slammed into the SU27SK, because of the short distance the SU27SK decoys and counter measure failed to lure away the F5E missile. Now the dogfight is even 2 to 2, the two PAF pilots decided to coordinate their fight they performed violent acrobatic maneuver to confuse the SU27SK fighters of the PLAAF they soon closed in on the two Chinese fighters one by one they fired their weapon using their 20mm cannon. The dogfight was over in just five minutes, but for the pilots of the PAF it was their longest five minutes, even them couldn’t believe that the dogfight just took five minutes.

By 1800 hours the brave PLA soldiers in western Taiwan was defeated. But in northern Taiwan near the capital of Taipei the PLA was overrunning the Taiwanese defenses. Only the timely arrival of the B52, B1 bombers, F35 fighters based in the Philippines save the Taiwanese northern forces from the imminent defeat. To make the fight more demoralizing for the PLA, Taiwanese reserve aircraft based at several secret location finally join the fight providing close air support for the embattled Taiwanese army. The fight was brutal on both sides; it is like a meat grinder. Many PLA soldiers surrendered after realizing that they have no close air support to prosecute the war.

Within 48 hours, facing imminent defeat in Taiwan and without air superiority, and her navy is now just a shadow of what it once was; The People’s Republic of China decided to send all available fighters and bombers in her inventory to Taiwan, but this time the F15E and F35 fighters of the US air force and marine based in Japan finally join the fight, after getting permission from the Japanese government and after realizing that North Korea has no intention to invade South Korea. Over a thousand aircraft was involved in this fight, the first massive air-to-air engagement since the end of World War II. In the end the combined US and Taiwanese forces plus their superior technology would win this air war. It was a decision that China would later regret.

 Five days after the invasion, and China’s defeat is now official but China has yet to acknowledge it. A secret face saving negotiation is being held at Geneva Switzerland, all parties involve favor a ceasefire and none would declare a military victory. Under the terms of agreement status quo would be maintained, Taiwan would acknowledge to be part of China and negotiation for peaceful reunification shall begin by 2030, and the US military would be allowed to have a military bases in Taiwan for 100 years even after reunification with China. And in the event of reunification it would be a one country two system and, Taiwan has the right to choose its own leader and maintain its own military but under the Chinese command structure. China would pay the US and Taiwan 140 billion dollars not as war reparation but as damage to the properties destroyed during the war.

The US has no intention to honor all of her commitments to the Philippines. Shade of World War II betrayal of veterans all over again


FROM el_commandante of timawa.net

http://www.timawa.net/forum/index.php?PHPSESSID=c4bf457974ef356b212c1c9a4e2eefd9&topic=2626.0

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Re: Miriam defends Phl diplomatic protest vs China on Spratlys
« Reply #9 on: March 15, 2011, 12:07:46 AM »
i think china will stop bullying its small neighbors and weaken its claim on spratly when this scenario will happen...

we are not advocating war here, its just a "what if" scenario posted by el_commandante from timawa.net

PART 1 (posted by EL COMMANDANTE FROM TIMAWA.NET)

Guys, if you have the time please read this post, Very Happy  take note I am not advocating a war here. I was already admonished by Opus for this. I wrote this post to serve as an outline for the book that I am planning to write, if I find the time. I would need your suggestion, inputs, and criticism.


GLOSSARY
PROC: People’s Republic of China
PLA: People’s Liberation Army
PLAAF: People’s Liberation Army Air force
PLAN: People’s Liberation Army Navy
ChiCom: Chinese communist


Republic of China or ROC   Taiwan’s official name
ROCAF: Republic of China Air Force



A scenario of US, China conflict.

China’s emerging status as a superpower is undeniable. Her rapid economic expansion makes her a manufacturing giant; in technology she is fast catching up with the west, Japan, and Korea, China in fact has recently acquired the pc unit of IBM corporation. China is now the third country to launch a manned mission in the space, and is expected to launch a manned mission on the moon within twenty years.

The USA can sneer that they landed on the moon first in 1969. But the US must remember that was 36 years ago, since then the growth of space exploration has stunted. China’s space agency has a yearly budget of only 2 billion dollars, while NASA’s yearly budget is bigger than the Philippine foreign debt. Imagine if China’s space agency has a budget of just half of NASA’s budget, she could send a manned mission to mars!

So why am I telling this? Because space is the future battleground of the USA and China, for technological supremacy, it maybe good for mankind because space exploration has commercial and military application.

Taiwan no doubt is the main thorn in the US, China relations, but even if Taiwan reunified peacefully with China, rivalry between US and China would remain not because of China’s communist ideology. It is because man cannot live without a rival, future enemy, and traditional enemy. Like the Greek and Turkish rivalry, Japan versus China, Russia and Korea. The Arabs versus the Jews, Kurds, and Christians. Since China is the only country that could threaten the US sole status as a superpower therefore it is only logical for the US to prevent that from happening at all cost. This is the reason why the USA would come to the rescue of Taiwan in the event of Chinese invasion, China has Hong Kong already, and a combined China, HK, and Taiwan economy is a nightmare for the USA.

The year is 2016, in this scenario; China now the third largest economy in the world after Japan, invaded Taiwan (disguised as a mere military exercise) after announcing its intention to declare independence, which is not really surprising because, Taiwan for years had been insisting that it is separate from China. Unable to defend herself Taiwan beg the US to come to her rescue, The US would come to Taiwan’s rescue anyway even if Taiwan do not ask for it explicitly. Prior to the invasion of Taiwan, Chinese commercial vessels are expected to block the Panama canal, and Suez canal by deliberately sabotaging the ships while passing through that canals. The US navy carrier battle group in the mediterranean and Atlantic would be unable to come quickly to the rescue of Taiwan, because of the mammoth obstacles in the canals that are made of steel.

Prior to the invasion, China’s communist ally North Korea under pressure from China would raise its alert status by moving nearly a million troops, thousand’s of artillery, tanks, and IFV near the DMZ separating North Korea to South Korea. Nokor air force is flying close to the border with activated radar, Nokor navy ships flagrantly intruded the sea border separating the two Korea. The purpose of this provocative action by North Korea and China is to tie up the US forces in South Korea, and Japan, thus preventing the US forces to automatically come to the rescue of Taiwan fearing that North Korea might attack South Korea.
Taiwan is expected to fight with ferocity of a lion; she has one of the best air force in Asia such as the F16, Mirage 2000, and Ching Kuo fighters, though ageing already Taiwan periodically upgrade its fleet of about 550 aircraft thus attaining an operational readiness of 90%. But the Taiwanese navy is no match for its giant rival. The eight diesel submarines ordered by Taiwan from the United States could not be completed because of internal politics, and when the order for the acquisition of submarines was finally given a go signal by the Taiwanese government it was too late! The invasion has just begun, (code name: operation Dragon’s reach) but Taiwan has six La Fayette class stealth frigates, nine second hand ex USN frigates and destroyers, two ageing Dutch made submarine and ten squadron of locally developed missile boats equipped with harpoon ASM and indigenously developed missile system, definitely no match to PLAN’s powerful submarine fleet of about forty, a combination of seventy five destroyers, and frigates, including Russian made destroyers, and thousands of missile boats and hovercraft for beachhead landing. (Like the Normandy beachhead landing)

In this scenario, at about 0200 hours Christmas day, China pursuant to the implementation of its tough anti secession law and using it as one of the justifications for the invasion, launched a barrage of surface-to-surface missiles, a mix of Chinese, and Russian made, to Taiwanese cities, military installations and bases. (On another angle this is not really an invasion, Taiwan is part of China, the UN and the whole world recognize China’s sovereignty over Taiwan. Therefore this action by China is a mere enforcement of the law.) Chinese warplanes such as SU27SK, SU30MK, heavy bombers, J8 and J10 fighters whose production China had just completed for a total of 900 aircraft replacing the ageing J7 fighters, flew in a coordinated attack to establish air superiority with the SU30Mk armed with anti ship sunburn missile devoted to hunt Taiwanese navy ships. In this air and naval attack China is guided by five radar planes, the Chinese version of AWACS acquired with some technical assistance from Israel, Russia, and Europe when the latter partially lifted its arms embargo against China. Included in this air armada are twelve air refueling tanker a converted Boeing aircraft. The US knew that China is converting the aircraft to flying fuel tanker, but has decided to keep silent about it for fearing it might lose the huge Chinese market for commercial aircraft.

The sky over the Taiwan strait (it is more than a hundred miles separating China from Taiwan) was filled by more than four hundred warplanes, And in the sea, thousands of ships including commandeered commercial ships loaded with armored infantry vehicles, and Type 90 main battle tanks sailed toward Taiwan, and in the tiny Taiwanese island of Quemoy, the island nearest to China than Taiwan. This tiny island is Taiwan’s first line of defense against China.

Taiwan, and the US knew that the invasion was imminent but could not agree when exactly it would be launched, but they were not caught off guard, alerted of the incoming fighters, and bombers by the ROCAF AWACS flying 24 hours a day, Taiwan immediately launch its F16A, Mirage2000 and Ching Kuo fighters a total of 235 fighters. Within minutes of detecting each other over the Taiwan straits, the Chinese and Taiwanese fighters launched a salvo of beyond visual range or BVR missiles (R-77 versus AMRAAM) against each other, but effective counter measure such as electronic, radar jamming, and decoys by ROCAF defeated the first salvo of BVR missiles by the PLAAF, only a few of the ROCAF fighters were shot down by the R-77 missile, not to be outdone the PLAAF fighters are armed also with counter measure although not as effective like the Taiwanese fighters. In the initial air-to-air engagement the ROCAF fighters shot down about 23 percent of the PLAAF fighters, but the PLAAF numerical superiority and aided by PLAN destroyers firing SAM to the ROCAF fighters negates Taiwan’s advantage in electronic warfare technology. Airpower historians later would describe it as the largest radar missile shootout ever. Soon both sides are now on the visual range, this time dogfighting skill, and maneuverability of the aircraft would play a big role in this knife fight. In a show of superb flying skill by the Taiwanese pilots, The ROCAF dominated the knife fight, but the dogfight was very difficult on both sides because it was nighttime and visual contact even with NVG is still limited. The similarity between the J10 and F16 made it more difficult on both sides to shoot at each other; during the rumble of the ROCAF and PLAAF fighters, as a result some of the fighters were victims of friendly fire. Bright flashes indicating a hit could be seen everywhere, missile shots from the sidewinder and PL-8 was like a shooting stars flying horizontally. The ROCAF eventually won this round, but it was a Pyrric victory some 40 percent of its fighters were shot down. The PLAAF before fleeing did manage to fire some of its cruise missiles heading to Taiwan inflicting only minor damages, because most of the cruise missiles were intercepted by the land based CIWS.



Very interesting, fascinating scenario.

:)

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Re: Miriam defends Phl diplomatic protest vs China on Spratlys
« Reply #10 on: March 15, 2011, 12:13:46 AM »
LAST PART

The US finally entered the war at 0930 hours, F/A22 fighters took off from Basa and Clark Field air force base, F35 VSTOL flew along side the F/A22 for a deep strike ground attack mission armed with JSOW, HARM, hellfire and a mix of AIM-120 and sidewinder missiles. It was an awesome and frightening sight for the Filipino people who saw the flight of over a hundred fighters taking off one by one at secret military bases, they knew that for the first time since the end of World War II the Philippines is being sucked up again by the United States in another war. Meanwhile in the streets of manila leftwing radicals, and grandstanding politicians are rallying against the Philippines quiet participation in the war, but their silence regarding China’s invasion of Taiwan revealed their real motive.

The USAF finally join in the actual fight before noon, they dropped JSOW, cluster bombs, and the most lethal of all is the FAE bomb (FAE is the most powerful conventional bomb also known as mini atom bomb) at the trapped PLA forces in western Taiwan. CNN and BBC news would later describe the killing of the Chinese soldiers as overkill an excessive use of force against an enemy, because the PLA soldiers were already encircled, and trapped at the beach.

US B52, and B1E lancer bombers based in Guam fired their latest weapons against PLAN navy ships in northern Taiwan using tomahawk cruise missile and the new HarpoonX the latter is an advance version of the old harpoon anti ship missile, it can fly longer, supersonic and designed to counter decoys and counter measures. One by one PLAN ships began sinking.

The US navy’s Pacific fleet couldn’t get in time but F/A18E fighters escorted by the air force air tankers were able to join in the mission striking targets mostly, tanks, IFV, and artillery of the PLA, UCAV based in the Philippines armed with hellfire and AIM-120 missiles destroyed more than 600 tanks, IFV and artillery, it managed to shot down several F8, and J10 fighters of the PLAAF

By 1600 hours the 101st air assault division also known as the screaming eagles, began parachuting over the sky of Taiwan in a High altitude landing operation or HALO. The purpose of the HALO jump from large transport aircraft is to avoid Chinese anti aircraft missile or SAM. The US Special Forces mission is to hunt and fight PLA commandos leaving the conventional fighting to the Taiwanese army. In addition to their mission is to serve as forward air controller for all the US aircraft conducting strike mission.

In western Philippines north of the Spratly islands and China Sea, US navy’s squadron of P3C Orion began hunting the PLAN submarines, and attack boats that are blocking the free passage of trade and commerce. China’s declaration of sovereignty in the whole of China Sea and express prohibition of civilian and military ships passing through that sea during the invasion of Taiwan is one of the justifications used by the US to act militarily against the PROC. Dropping a floating sonar in the sea the P3C Orion detected and sunk nearly a dozen PLAN submarines and missile boats. In one incident a lone P3C was flying without an escort of fighters when the F/A18E squadron was diverted to northern Philippines to support the embattled Taiwanese forces. The P3C aircraft was being chased by four SU27SK fighters of the PLAAF with the intention to shoot it with 30mm cannon because the P3C is armed with electronic and radar jammer thus the SU27SK were unable to shoot it with missiles. Unable to defend itself against the faster and agile fighters of the PLAAF it called for help, the Philippine Air Force happens to have 2 F5E tigershark fighters armed with Israeli made Phyton5 missiles patrolling near the area. But the two PAF fighters couldn’t come to the rescue of the P3C plane because under the PAF rules of engagement PAF pilots are not allowed to engage the Chinese fighters unless they enter the Philippine air space or territory and after three repeated warnings for the aircraft to leave the Philippine territory or land peacefully at nearby airfield, and visual sighting of the aircraft is a must. The four Chicom fighters soon entered the Philippine airspace, they ignored the warning of the 2 PAF fighters to leave because the Chinese pilots considered the PAF as the laughing stock of Asia, the four SU27SK fighters continued pursuing the P3C Orion. The US navy plane was about to be killed by the 30mm cannon of the SU27SK when they detected the two F5E fighters of the PAF radioing them to leave. The four SU27SK fighters of the PLAAF decided to engage instead the two F5E fighters of the PAF. “To kill a defenseless enemy aircraft like the P3C is an honor, but to kill an armed jet fighter is a glory”

The Chinese pilots over confidence worked against them, it was a fight of 4 to 2 in China’s favor, and both sides fired missiles at each other, The PAF pilots happen to be members of the blue diamond aerial acrobatic team, in a stunning display of aerial acrobatic skill aided by flares, decoys, and electronic counter measure, the PAF pilots managed to evade the heat seeking short range missiles of the SU27SK, but the Phyton5 missiles fired by the F5E slammed into one of the SU27SK. Phyton5 is fired through a bore sight of the helmet-mounted sights (HMS) of the F5E. Now the dogfight is 3 to 2 still in China’s favor, the SU27SK is a superior fighter compared with the F5E, it is faster, can climb higher, fly longer, and very agile. During the aerial ballet dogfight one of the SU27SK fired its 30mm cannon but couldn’t hit their target because the F5E is very small and agile as well. But superior flying skill regardless of the flight worthiness of the aircraft proved to be beneficial to the PAF pilots, soon the fight was reversed the SU27SK fighters playing the role of the hunters become the hunted, one of the SU27SK tried the cobra maneuver to evade the chasing F5E fighter but the PAF pilot was trained to expect that maneuver, it immediately fired its last remaining missile, it slammed into the SU27SK, because of the short distance the SU27SK decoys and counter measure failed to lure away the F5E missile. Now the dogfight is even 2 to 2, the two PAF pilots decided to coordinate their fight they performed violent acrobatic maneuver to confuse the SU27SK fighters of the PLAAF they soon closed in on the two Chinese fighters one by one they fired their weapon using their 20mm cannon. The dogfight was over in just five minutes, but for the pilots of the PAF it was their longest five minutes, even them couldn’t believe that the dogfight just took five minutes.

By 1800 hours the brave PLA soldiers in western Taiwan was defeated. But in northern Taiwan near the capital of Taipei the PLA was overrunning the Taiwanese defenses. Only the timely arrival of the B52, B1 bombers, F35 fighters based in the Philippines save the Taiwanese northern forces from the imminent defeat. To make the fight more demoralizing for the PLA, Taiwanese reserve aircraft based at several secret location finally join the fight providing close air support for the embattled Taiwanese army. The fight was brutal on both sides; it is like a meat grinder. Many PLA soldiers surrendered after realizing that they have no close air support to prosecute the war.

Within 48 hours, facing imminent defeat in Taiwan and without air superiority, and her navy is now just a shadow of what it once was; The People’s Republic of China decided to send all available fighters and bombers in her inventory to Taiwan, but this time the F15E and F35 fighters of the US air force and marine based in Japan finally join the fight, after getting permission from the Japanese government and after realizing that North Korea has no intention to invade South Korea. Over a thousand aircraft was involved in this fight, the first massive air-to-air engagement since the end of World War II. In the end the combined US and Taiwanese forces plus their superior technology would win this air war. It was a decision that China would later regret.

 Five days after the invasion, and China’s defeat is now official but China has yet to acknowledge it. A secret face saving negotiation is being held at Geneva Switzerland, all parties involve favor a ceasefire and none would declare a military victory. Under the terms of agreement status quo would be maintained, Taiwan would acknowledge to be part of China and negotiation for peaceful reunification shall begin by 2030, and the US military would be allowed to have a military bases in Taiwan for 100 years even after reunification with China. And in the event of reunification it would be a one country two system and, Taiwan has the right to choose its own leader and maintain its own military but under the Chinese command structure. China would pay the US and Taiwan 140 billion dollars not as war reparation but as damage to the properties destroyed during the war.

The US has no intention to honor all of her commitments to the Philippines. Shade of World War II betrayal of veterans all over again


FROM el_commandante of timawa.net

http://www.timawa.net/forum/index.php?PHPSESSID=c4bf457974ef356b212c1c9a4e2eefd9&topic=2626.0


Interesting.

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Re: Miriam defends Phl diplomatic protest vs China on Spratlys
« Reply #11 on: March 15, 2011, 12:27:39 AM »
My opinion on the hypothetical tactical scenario:

A scenario between China, and the United States is , by all means, a catastrophe of epic proportions. A war between the two powers is something that both parties, Washington and Beijing, want to evade at all costs. The reasons for this is that when a war between the two powers is declared, it will not stop until one is defeated, or if the world is destroyed, considering the fact that both powers, China and USA, are nuclear powers.

In regards to Taiwan, the Chinese (PRC) are not going to throw away their developments for the sake of imminent take-over of its rogue province, Taiwan, no, not yet. The Chinese have a better way of bringing back Taiwan to its fold; through economic means. And through persistence.

China, as a world power, and as an economic giant with epic clout, drives the One-China Policy, which its trade and diplomatic partners are too willing to acquiesce or suffer the loss of Chinese trade and political disambiguation. An example would be the recent Philippine acceptance of the One-China Policy, which thereby relinquished all Philippine Claim of recognizing Taiwan as an independent state.

China will wait, perhaps 3-4 decades more, for her acquisition of Taiwan. She will probably wait when she is no longer contested as the world / regional hegemon of Asia-Pacific.

The People's Republic of China has hundreds, if not thousands of Nuclear ICBMs (Intercontinental ballistic missiles) which have the ability to vaporize and glass large areas of land, cities, ports, any military-economic-civil locale. If she sends 2-3 ICBMs to Taiwan, she could easily vaporize Taiwan into oblivion.

China can launch 14 ICBMs on the Philippines (if we side with USA) and this would exterminate all / if not most Filipinos from existence. 5 nukes in Luzon (2 in Manila-Quezon, 1 in Ilocos , 1 in Pampanga, 1 in southern Luzon). 4 Nukes in Visayas (1 in Cebu, 1 in Iloilo-Bacolod, 1 in Tacloban Region, 1 in Bohol). 5 Nukes in Mindanao (Davao, CDO, Gen San, Illigan City, Bukidnon Region).

The effects of such a Nuclear Punishment (considering the radiation, loss of communication, spread of disease due to decapitated medical system, rampant anarchy and chaos, etc) would lead to millions upon millions of Filipino dead. The Extermination of the Filipino Nation and the Filipino People.  The Government and the Nation would collapse.


--

As for America, if it is at war with a nuclear Power, China in this case, if nukes not used as a deterrent, they it will be used in war. I fear the results of such a nuclear war. Whole regions of the planet, if not the whole planet, would be glassed. We're looking at a world-wide human extermination.

 

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