Author Topic: Why PNoy should not say "sorry" to Hongkong (Read 1493 times)

islander · « **on:** February 08, 2014, 01:52:38 PM »

Saying sorry

MY FOUR CENTAVOS
By Dean Andy Bautista
(The Philippine Star)
February 8, 2014

Elton John once said, â€œsorry seems to be the hardest word.â€ Nearly three and a half years have passed since dismissed policeman Rolando Mendoza hijacked a bus of 22 Hong Kong tourists and three Filipinos and held them hostage in Luneta. Unfortunately, our local SWAT team (Manilaâ€™s finest?) bungled the rescue attempt during an 11 hour standoff, resulting in the death of eight Hong Kong nationals and the wounding of seven others. Admittedly, it was a fiasco. And to make matters worse, the entire episode was broadcasted live on television and radio.

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islander · « **Reply #1 on:** February 08, 2014, 01:55:13 PM »

Since then, the President and other senior officials have formally and informally expressed deep regret over the incident and heartfelt condolences to the victims and their families. Former President and incumbent Manila Mayor Joseph Estrada has also profusely apologized. He stated that the National Government had nothing to do with the failed attempt to peacefully end the hostage crisis. In his words, â€œit was the fault of the past administration, the local government of Manilaâ€¦ Itâ€™s the fault of the local official, not the President. The President need not apologize.â€ The late Interior Secretary Jesse Robredo had already found the former Mayor guilty of neglect in the handling of the 2010 hostage crisis. The Manila City Council had passed a resolution apologizing to the Hong Kong Government.

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islander · « **Reply #2 on:** February 08, 2014, 01:57:40 PM »

Cabinet Secretary Rene Almendras was dispatched to Hong Kong not only to personally condole with the families of the victims but to provide generous financial assistance as well.

Yet Hong Kong officials are not appeased. Probably encouraged by the bosses in Beijing, they recently announced that Philippine officials will no longer enjoy the privilege of staying in Hong Kong for 14 days without a visa. In truth, this is a symbolic sanction will only affect roughly 700 to 800 Filipinos (and who possess regular passports anyway). However, there are reports circulating that Hong Kong authorities may change the visa-free rule for tourists as well and require every Filipino to obtain a visa to visit the crown colony.

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islander · « **Reply #3 on:** February 08, 2014, 01:59:55 PM »

So should the Philippines still provide an official apology?

When an individual commits a wrong, even unintentionally, he or she is generally expected to apologize. And depending on the extent of the harm inflicted, saying sorry must be accompanied by some form of restitution.

But when one is acting as leader, and that of a sovereign state for that matter, the situation is different. Since a Head of State speaks for the country and the entire citizenry, an apology would have broad, political implications.

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islander · « **Reply #4 on:** February 08, 2014, 02:00:35 PM »

In this instance, my four centavos is that the need for an official apology should be framed by the following: 1) whether state officials were involved; and 2) whether acts were committed with malicious intent or through negligence.

Indeed, the police assigned to deal with their emotionally unstable colleague may not have been up to the task but it has not been shown that they acted with evident bad faith either. This case should be differentiated with the shooting of a Taiwanese fisherman by the Philippine Coast Guard last May 2013. In that case, the President was quick and forthcoming with an apology. So why the current reluctance? The main difference between the two cases is that one involves what criminal law terms as dolo while the other involves culpa. When the PCG opened fire on the Taiwanese vessel, that was a clear act of dolo or â€œcriminal intent.â€ There was malice aforethought as common law jurists would call it. However, the Mendoza crisis was bungled due to negligence or culpa, not malice. The deaths of the tourists was accidental, not deliberate.

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islander · « **Reply #5 on:** February 08, 2014, 02:02:24 PM »

And letâ€™s examine the flipside. In 2005, newly retired Shell executive Emmanuel Madrigal and his daughter Regina Mia were touring Beijing when they were suddenly stabbed to death by a Chinese man. More recently, in October 2013, Filipina doctor Lina Bunyi was killed by a wayward car that ploughed into a crowd at Tiananmen Square. Did the Chinese government issue any apology for these incidents? Did they provide compensation for the victimsâ€™ families?

And what about the domestic workers residing in Hong Kong? According to data gathered by the Mission for Migrant Workers, which surveyed more than 3,000 women last year, 58 percent had faced verbal abuse, 18 per cent physical abuse and 6 percent sexual abuse. And this may only represent the tip of the iceberg as many victims are believed to be too scared or ill-informed to come forward. This led Jason Ng to write a provocative article in the 23 January 2014 edition of South China Morning Post on why the Hong Kong government should apologize for the plight of abused domestic workers.

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islander · « **Reply #6 on:** February 08, 2014, 02:04:15 PM »

But who stands to lose more anyway? Filipinos currently make up roughly 1.9 percent of the Hong Kong population (mostly working as domestic helpers). Their presence not only makes the home lives of their employers easier, it also enables both spouses to seek gainful employment. I am sure that their absence will make the Hong Kong middle class and foreign expatriates unhappy.

Moreover, Hong Kong makes more money from Filipino tourists than the Philippines makes from their Hong Kong counterparts. While a few flying hours further off, Singapore, Thailand and Japan stand to be the beneficiaries as they present comparable tourist attractions and benefits.

So Hong Kong authorities should carefully consider the consequences before escalating the matter further. As stated earlier, our leaders have not only expressed sincere regret, they have also provided substantial remuneration to the victims and their families. Coercing an official apology will not bring the latter closure. Only time and justice can do that.

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more at http://www.philstar.com/opinion/2014/02/08/1287913/saying-sorry

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islander · « **Reply #7 on:** February 08, 2014, 02:26:26 PM »

the philippines never demanded apologies nor compensation for the following victims' families. none was volunteered, none was given by china/hongkong:

1. In 2005, newly retired Shell executive Emmanuel Madrigal and his daughter Regina Mia were touring Beijing when they were suddenly stabbed to death by a Chinese man.

2. In October 2013, Filipina doctor Lina Bunyi was killed by a wayward car that ploughed into a crowd at Tiananmen Square.

3. Domestic workers residing in Hong Kong
-data gathered by the Mission for Migrant Workers, which
surveyed more than 3,000 women last year:
58 percent had faced verbal abuse
18 percent physical abuse
6 percent sexual abuse

(And this may only represent the tip of the iceberg as many victims are believed to be too scared or ill-informed to come forward.)

This led Jason Ng to write a provocative article in the 23 January 2014 edition of South China Morning Post on why the Hong Kong government should apologize for the plight of abused domestic workers.

-from reply #5, this thread

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islander · « **Reply #8 on:** February 08, 2014, 02:35:35 PM »

excerpts from Why Hong Kong's government should apologise for failing abused domestic workers
by Jason Y. Ng
South China Morning Post
Thursday, 23 January, 2014

***

It has been four decades since the first batch of foreign domestic helpers arrived in Hong Kong from the Philippines. Since then, our economy has taken off but their status and working conditions have gone the other direction. Their grievances about domestic violence and unlawful business practices have fallen on seven million pairs of deaf ears. We either brush them off as â€œisolated incidentsâ€ or, as some have shamelessly suggested, turn to even more docile workers from Bangladesh and Myanmar. But enough is enough â€“ the time to take a hard look at our migrant worker policy is now.

Indonesian domestic helper Erwiana Sulistyaningsih lies in a bed at a hospital in Central Java, Indonesia. Photo: Sam Tsang

Abused domestic workers are failed by our city in every way: by the employer and employment agency, our law enforcement and policymakers. Every safeguard in the system has failed. The same way many Hong Kongers are demanding Philippine President Benigno Aquino III apologise for the Manila hostage crisis in 2010, the migrant worker community in Hong Kong will be justified in asking C.Y. Leung for an apology for all the systemic failures that have led to the plight of so many foreign domestic workers.

Journalists surround the suspect (wearing mask and long black coat), who allegedly tortured Indonesia domestic worker Erwiana Sulistyaningsih, accompanied by her husband (head covered with envelope) while she leaves at Kwun Tong court. Photo: Nora Tam

more at http://www.scmp.com/comment/blogs/article/1411581/why-hong-kongs-government-should-apologise-failing-abused-domestic

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Lorenzo · « **Reply #9 on:** February 09, 2014, 02:11:54 AM »

It was unfortunate that that shooting occurred. And from my own objective analysis, the manner in which the Philippine police responded to the matter was deplorable, with the unfortunate deaths of innocent Chinese tourists. Evidence points to the necessary changes and improved tactics in regards to neutralization of hostage taking by Manila police personnel. A formal apology is necessary. An apology would help in warming and touching the Chinese sensibilities. It will help to defrost the current China-Philippine relations.

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Lorenzo · « **Reply #10 on:** February 09, 2014, 02:25:38 AM »

excerpts from Why Hong Kong's government should apologise for failing abused domestic workers
by Jason Y. Ng
South China Morning Post
Thursday, 23 January, 2014

***

It has been four decades since the first batch of foreign domestic helpers arrived in Hong Kong from the Philippines. Since then, our economy has taken off but their status and working conditions have gone the other direction. Their grievances about domestic violence and unlawful business practices have fallen on seven million pairs of deaf ears. We either brush them off as â€œisolated incidentsâ€ or, as some have shamelessly suggested, turn to even more docile workers from Bangladesh and Myanmar. But enough is enough â€“ the time to take a hard look at our migrant worker policy is now.

Indonesian domestic helper Erwiana Sulistyaningsih lies in a bed at a hospital in Central Java, Indonesia. Photo: Sam Tsang

Abused domestic workers are failed by our city in every way: by the employer and employment agency, our law enforcement and policymakers. Every safeguard in the system has failed. The same way many Hong Kongers are demanding Philippine President Benigno Aquino III apologise for the Manila hostage crisis in 2010, the migrant worker community in Hong Kong will be justified in asking C.Y. Leung for an apology for all the systemic failures that have led to the plight of so many foreign domestic workers.

Journalists surround the suspect (wearing mask and long black coat), who allegedly tortured Indonesia domestic worker Erwiana Sulistyaningsih, accompanied by her husband (head covered with envelope) while she leaves at Kwun Tong court. Photo: Nora Tam

more at http://www.scmp.com/comment/blogs/article/1411581/why-hong-kongs-government-should-apologise-failing-abused-domestic

and let us analyze this objectively. the indonesians should not dare complain or call for uproar, lest they forget their own dirty history in regards to overseas Chinese in Indonesia. In the 90's there was a bloody race riot in jakarta / java where in which irate indonesians burned down chinese - owned businesses and killed hundreds of chinese indonesians. why? because they felt that the chinese were too successful. what then? it was excused.

some host societies are too quick to blame the chinese , or, out of envy of the successes of the chinese, are quick to point out the 'malevolence' of the successful immigrant. the same can be seen in the philippines where indigenous filipinos still hold some objections to the success of chinese filipinos. this underlying racist ploy needs to be addressed.

now back to the indonesians' riot against chinese-indonesians:

let us not forget history.

indonesian looters. stealing from a burned-down chinese-owned store

a dead chinese-indonesians. beaten to death by rioters. what was his crime? for being chinese, and owning a business.

burning down chinese business cars. people were inside.

brutally murdered chinese-indonesians. killed by irate and barbaric mob.
what was their crime? for being successful. and also for being chinese.

where was their justice? the government in jakarta was quick to silence media outlet on this...barbaric racist riot.

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Lorenzo · « **Reply #11 on:** February 09, 2014, 02:38:52 AM »

So should the Philippines still provide an official apology?

When an individual commits a wrong, even unintentionally, he or she is generally expected to apologize. And depending on the extent of the harm inflicted, saying sorry must be accompanied by some form of restitution.

But when one is acting as leader, and that of a sovereign state for that matter, the situation is different. Since a Head of State speaks for the country and the entire citizenry, an apology would have broad, political implications.

Mr. Bautista,

With all due honesty, I would caution you, good sir, to see things in regards to the geopolitic. The number 1 trading partner of the Philippines, sir, is the People's Republic of China. There are thousands of Filipinos working abroad in China, in Hong Kong, alone, there are tens of thousands of Filipinos who work and send money back to family and relatives in the Philippines. There is no wrong in apologizing for the wrong that occurred in Manila, it will only show to the world of the accountability of the government. The nation is not perfect and is continually improving its services and delivery of such services, either it be in police or military provisions or be it economic and health resolutions.

Pride, my dear good sir, should be relinquished in dealing with geopolitic. The Philippines, as an insular and archipelagic nation that depends on a thriving economic activity with regional neighbors, needs to balance its relationship with both China and the United States. By reducing the frosty tension between Manila and Beijing, we can more effectively communicate with Beijing to find common ground in terms of territorial differences. This, sir, depends on the viability and positive opinion between the people of our two nations. Aquino has to address all multifactorial provisions and tacitly and strategically do what he must to help re-orient the relations between the People's Republic of China and the Republic of the Philippines to one that will foster a rewarding and fortuitous dynamic. It is good we learn to think outside the box in this regard.

Truly Yours,
a Boholano

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islander · « **Reply #12 on:** February 09, 2014, 11:43:06 AM »

there is more to geopolitics than national pride, lorenz. there must be more to why our president is not going to apologize just as the u.s. government through its president must never apologize for its spying on other countries. never mind that china, israel, australia and who knows what other countries do some spying too. it's just too bad for the u.s. that there was a snowden who confirmed this covert activity. but in terms of realpolitik, no formal u.s. apology should be expected, much less demanded.

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islander · « **Reply #13 on:** February 09, 2014, 11:44:38 AM »

just because our country is perceived as poor and weak, it does not follow that a place like hongkong, which is not even a sovereign country by itself, must demand of it to grovel and kneel by way of a national apology-on-demand. the city of manila can apologize to hongkong, which was already done by mayor erap, but not our whole country through our president.

the fact is hongkong politics is making their politicians dig up this 2010 issue. quite a red herring to divert a population's attention from their own issues, which includes china's expansionism, by fanning nationalism. wag the dog, anyone?

our country never demanded of china and hongkong to apologize and compensate for the deaths and domestic abuse of our own citizens there. what makes the chinese believe they deserve national apologies more than we do?

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islander · « **Reply #14 on:** February 12, 2014, 06:50:55 PM »

[Valenzuela Rep. Sherwin Gatchalian] said he could not understand why Hong Kong is insisting on an apology from Aquino.

â€œHong Kong seems to put much weight on the apology and has totally forgotten the fact that the Philippine government has deeply regretted the incident and has profusely shown its compassion to the families of the victims of the Rizal Park tragedy,â€ he said.

He noted that in 2010, the administration ordered all flags flown at half-mast.

â€œI believe that was already a concrete gesture of apology,â€ he stressed.

â€œEven without the apology, Hong Kong should have felt and seen the sincerity of the Filipino people in conveying their utmost regret and grief by lowering the flags in half mast,â€ Gatchalian said. â€œIsnâ€™t that acceptable enough for an act of apology?â€ he asked.

â€œThe Philippine government must not back down to the coercive pressure of Hong Kong. The restraint alongside the visa restriction is an implicit assertion of superiority,â€ he said. â€œThe issue of apology has become a political ploy anchored to a much bigger issue, which is the standing territorial dispute between the Philippines and China.â€

more at http://www.philstar.com/headlines/2014/02/12/1289383/phl-committed-finish-intl-arbitration-sea-row

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Author Topic: Why PNoy should not say "sorry" to Hongkong (Read 1493 times)

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