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Lorenzo

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Re: SO WHAT if you're BOTH MEN or BOTH WOMEN?
« Reply #60 on: July 02, 2008, 11:17:00 AM »
There are many neuroscientists and neurobiologists that have studied homosexuality. Many view it as a species-based inhibitory effect.

Meaning, it is a genetic manifest that was ingrained in certain invididuals in certain populations as a way to mitigate population growth.

In a natural point of view, organisms are supposed to have checks and balances. It is part of the Malthusian concept that the given resources in the planet are linearly affixed, and human population growth is alinear. Growth is also alinear. Meaning that there will definitely be a time when humans will outgrow the given resources.

We see this in nature that whenever there is a limited resources for a given animal population, as a result, females will produce more destructive enzymes during their gestation period; increases in fetal deaths, instances of animalic cannabilism as well as predation increases.

Humans by right violate natural law because we have already developed science which have combated diseases, plagues, and viruses that evolved as a way to destroy populations and limit human populatory growth and presence. Humans have developed technology that can solve physiological diseases in the cardic, neural, endocrinal systems etc. There is no 'natural' predator for humans as humans are the apex predatory species. There is no limiting reactant to keep population growth in check.


HOWEVER, there have been articles written by neuroscientists and neurobiologists that homosexuality is degeneric condition that was designed on a species' level to inhibit female-male mating. And therefore would decrease human population. Since the act leads to self-induced populatory destruction.

In an organismal-populatory view, it is self-destructive. And if left unchecked will lead to species-wide deterioration.

One can say that what scripture teaches holds rather STRONG links to scientific proofs.

One can, even dare to say that there is parallel to scriptural teachings and scientific fact.


Of Course,
Bran Lorenzo
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bonbonquest

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Re: SO WHAT if you're BOTH MEN or BOTH WOMEN?
« Reply #61 on: July 02, 2008, 01:54:33 PM »

hahahaha!  i like the idea that "not coming out" instead, is the sin rather than coming out!... awesome!... i'm gonna advocate that... hahaha!..

anyway, the one on the left is me and the one on the right is may baby Teddy bear nga niwang... hehehe!
The things that truly matter in life are the things that matter to us.  Worth is relative.  You cannot dictate what I value in the same way you cannot dictate what you see in the mirror when you look at it.


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Where it all seems so nice...

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bonbonquest

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Re: SO WHAT if you're BOTH MEN or BOTH WOMEN?
« Reply #62 on: July 02, 2008, 02:36:43 PM »


So that's what you think.

I've said it before and I will say it again: I don't care what you say, Lorenzo.  I have a mind of my own and so do you.  I have my own line of thinking that has been influenced by generations of great thinkers and I'm not about to bow down to any other ideologies obviously lesser than that.

I think as much as I read.  When I read the works Freud, Piaget, Kohlberg, Erikson, the holy Bible, the Kabbalah, Q'uran, Bhagavad Gita, or anything else, I use my head.  My brain isn't a sponge, you know.  I do know how to think--very well, in fact.  I've read about all those things you mentioned in your rant and I've pondered on them.  I'm not the kind of person who only recognizes a single-perspective.  I do consider the other side but your arguments are just not as strong as mine is founded, so I trashed them.

Yes, I do read the Christian bible.  It's among the most insightful books I've ever come across but I don't necessarily believe everything.  If you do, then that's your choice, Lorenzo.  Don't bombard me with them because I really don't care.  Nothing you say will influence me in any substantial manner.  I don't even know who you are.  If I did, it wouldn't matter either way because, much like you with your advocacy, I keep a firm stand with mine and I don't budge for absolutely anyone below my "standards of intelligence".

Your scientific statement on this issue is not useful.  First and foremost because I already know about that.  Second is because we (my partner and I) have abandoned thoughts of reproduction among ourselves.  We are men, alright? We ARE men.  We are aware that it's never going to happen between us.

And telling me that I'm abnormal does not really provoke me intensely.  I know that my genes were designed this way by the biological course of nature.  And who do you Christians say is responsible for this?  God, right?  And does your perspective of God consider to be a sin what makes two people (even of the same sex) happy?  Especially if this happiness is sealed with genuine love?

You say that homosexuality is a sin and your basis of this is the holy bible.  Well, let your basis be your basis.  My basis is mine as well.

I'm not close-minded, though.  I am as dynamic as all human beings normally are.  But given that you are deliberately calling me an "abomination," I would say that you are as "banal" and "feeble" as your shallow-founded arguments.

Keep them coming, Lorenzo.  I would never care.  You are wasting your time trying to tell me things that I am completely aware about.  The fact is that I don't really care... at all.

Let us end this argument, Lorenzo.  Please stop trying to convince me that homosexuality is a sin and that it is an abominable thing.  Nothing you say or do will convince me of this because in my eyes, you are nobody.  I do not recognize you in any significant way.  I do not regard you any more than how I regard every candle vendor at St. Joseph's Cathedral (whom I respect as human beings, by the way), any mendicant at the port of Tagbilaran City or any cashier at BQ or ICM.  To me, you are no one so don't try imposing on me.

Thank you.  Have a nice life.


Ludwig

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Re: SO WHAT if you're BOTH MEN or BOTH WOMEN?
« Reply #63 on: July 02, 2008, 06:13:12 PM »
hala, taas naman diay ni nga thread.

anyway, be cool gentlemen.

in bohol, two women were wed in panglao, bohol. sila pa to kinaunhan. wala pay two men.. (hopefully naa na sila si __).

Bambi

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Re: SO WHAT if you're BOTH MEN or BOTH WOMEN?
« Reply #64 on: July 02, 2008, 07:08:35 PM »

dis-a ka nanggikat el mundo? hala sugod nag panintal aw pamintal diha.

I love to have b***t as a best friend. I have one sa Bohol.  Had tried with men basta in the long run gusto gjod ning mga lalaki mo-i*** nimo bisan unsa pa mo ka closed friends. Long live the Bayots! :-*

Bayat.......apil ug aviva diha!


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Re: SO WHAT if you're BOTH MEN or BOTH WOMEN?
« Reply #65 on: July 02, 2008, 09:00:46 PM »
Aw basta may mailagay,talagang may mapaglagyan.No? ;D

bonbonquest

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« Reply #66 on: July 02, 2008, 09:04:33 PM »

Oh... I am cool, Leo.  As in sublimating... exhaling ice vapor...
Yes, I am cool... nyeheheheh!
;D

...Loving the imaginary action here... hahahah!

junayag

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Re: SO WHAT if you're BOTH MEN or BOTH WOMEN?
« Reply #67 on: July 02, 2008, 09:50:43 PM »


Hello All,

There were a lot of threads / exposures on this topic in the past. And all I could say are the following:

1.  Being human, be it heterosexuals or homosexuals, we are sinners... and since God is forgiving.. and when the sinners repent... there is heaven.

2.  reflecting the bible....I was an ex-seminarian and I've encountered phrases like this " the value of sin changes ... as time changes..."

3.  in this dynamic world especially in corporate,  we are not talking anymore about gender..., sexual preferences, we are talking about performance.... quality performance per se.

4.  look on our surroundings... the achievers do not belong only to the straights...either men or women or anybody would be great if they are determined to be so.

More to come, more to share....



ms da binsi

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Re: SO WHAT if you're BOTH MEN or BOTH WOMEN?
« Reply #68 on: July 02, 2008, 10:47:44 PM »





Bayat diha baja nag gikan ang atong usernames, as in b***t nga Baje!

wahahhahahahha

now people know nganong we both called ourselves Bayat!

Peeps, mas Bajut pa ming duha ni Bambi pero baje lang mi!

Apir Bayat!


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slackware

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Re: SO WHAT if you're BOTH MEN or BOTH WOMEN?
« Reply #69 on: July 02, 2008, 10:53:34 PM »
ok kaayo na mga bisexuals kay strike anywhere! can fit in to any hole! ahahahahahhahaha!
"All that is needed for evil to succeed is, that decent human beings doing nothing". (Edmund Burke)

Lorenzo

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Re: SO WHAT if you're BOTH MEN or BOTH WOMEN?
« Reply #70 on: July 03, 2008, 03:17:46 AM »

Don't take it personally, Bon. It seems to me that you tend to take things too personally. It is just my own point of view.

Lets not let differences in opinions inhibit dialogue.

It is natural to disagree on things; as no one can change a person's views. Same as you will not change mine and vice versa. :)

We may have differences, but it shouldn't be a reason for us to linger in malcontent for each other. Right?

Welcome to Tubag Bohol! Where minds come and talk and learn from each other.


Colloquially,
Bran Lorenzo


PS. Unlike you, Bon, I don't regard you as a cashier at a mall, or a candle seller, or a port worker. I view you as an equal and a human being. 

All Glory and Praise to the Lord.

Even if you don't respect me Bon, and even if you harbor ill feelings, I will not reiterate the same feelings. I wish you a good life, and a sound mind. :)

Peace be with you.

Lorenzo

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Re: SO WHAT if you're BOTH MEN or BOTH WOMEN?
« Reply #71 on: July 03, 2008, 03:24:15 AM »
Lets get back to topic. Please.


Bambi

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« Reply #72 on: July 03, 2008, 06:25:57 AM »

Hello Pare! Kumusta?

I have always respected your point of view since from the start knowing you here in TB.  I've been reading the hot discussions in this interesting thread but some biblical citations makes me confused.

I have a question to you since you are a bible expert.  I had read in one of your comments that phrase: "The act of homosexuality is a SIN! Would you be kind enough to elaborate and explain clearly WHY IT IS CONSIDERED AS A SIN in which connection?  I am interested to know this. Thanks.

As I understand: GOD created us equal and he ordered us... "Go to the World and multiply" (As what the Pinoys considered obedient enough).  As to my poor understanding: Since the homosexuals have no possibility to multipy..... are they sinners? Due to this reasons that they could never follow what God said? If our Almighty God loves us all whom he molded.... Why and into what basics he will neglect some (Bayots) of his own creatures?  Sorry dear God!...Is this not an art of cheating from our Lord?  ???

In my own opinion....mas sala pang dako ang siging panganak ug daghan unya way ika-pakaon kay sa mga boutan nga  b***t (dili pod tanan ..like we heteros)  nga mang-adopt ug mga gisalikway nga pobreng bata gikan sa mga ginikanan nga masunoron sa sugo sa Diyos.

Pare....what I think there are other mortal sins which need more our attention rather than telling someone who couragely outing himself  at the age of 18 who more or less only need our respect as a person.  And I am happy to have him here....let TB Family be more colorful!

We welcome all from different categories as soon as they are called human, right?

Peace all be with you! 

Brownman

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Re: SO WHAT if you're BOTH MEN or BOTH WOMEN?
« Reply #73 on: July 03, 2008, 06:45:23 AM »
We have freedom of choice, i think everyone deserves to be happy regardless of what
gender they are.
Consider pleasures as they depart, Not as they come.

Lorenzo

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« Reply #74 on: July 03, 2008, 07:33:22 AM »

Pare Bambi,

As much as I read the Bible, I would not say that I am an expert of the Holy Bible. Many of the passages within it still puzzle me as well as titillates the mind. I am a lover of inter-dialogue between theologians in their personal interpretation of biblical passages. Either it be in the Evangelical viewpoint, the Catholic viewpoint or the Orthodox viewpoint. I, like many others, am just a simple beginner in biblical study. One which has been very rewarding, I will admit.

My post regarding homosexuality in biblical passage was not meant to cause tension, but to infer the religious viewpoint on the matter. It is one thing that many of us look into because one cannot deny that many of us look towards scripture for moral understanding, teachings and answers. And I was providing the religious discourse. Since it was Bonbon, himself, who asked in his post in this thread.

Case in point,

God loves unconditionally[/b]?  What an outlook!

What do you think?

And as you see, Bonbon was the one who asked the question. 'What do we think'. Wowboholphilippines provided a response, and bonbon responded quite negatively with unecessary profane remarks. It was an honest and simple retort.

I responded because it is within my own heart that compelled me to answer. Bonbon asked a sincere question and looking for other view points. I provided the specific biblical passage that specifically relegates the said topic.

I provided my view point, and provided a primary source to support the view point. It was responded by Bonbon's rather 'hostile' remarks that were unnecessary. And the things that I pointed out in previous posts regarding the neurological condition is fact.

However, instead of just accepting and acquiescing the opinion of others, which he asked for in the first place. He responded quite nefariously after reading something that does not conform to his ideology. Whatsoever it may be.

To me, that is very bad debate tactic and very mundane dialogue etiquette. There is no need to use profane words to convey a point. One can still argue and debate civilly. At least that way it motivates and instills a camaraderie in debate. Instead we see the antithesis.

Pareng Bambi, it is written in scripture that the act of homosexuality is a sin. In the catholic version of the bible, the presbyterian, the king james version, the new american version, the methodist version, etc.

The Bible consistently tells us that homosexual activity is a sin (Genesis 19:1-13; Leviticus 18:22; Romans 1:26-27; 1 Corinthians 6:9). However, the Bible does not describe homosexuality as a “greater” sin than any other. All sin is offensive to God. Homosexuality is just one of the many things listed in 1 Corinthians 6:9-10 that will keep a person from the kingdom of God. According to the Bible, God’s forgiveness is just as available to a homosexual as it is to an adulterer, idol worshipper, murderer, thief, etc. God also promises the strength for victory over sin, including homosexuality, to all those who will believe in Jesus Christ for their salvation (1 Corinthians 6:11; 2 Corinthians 5:17).

I invite you Pare to read the verses that I mentioned, and meditate on its teachings.

Note that I am merely answering the religious question that Bonbon asked. He asked and it was given.


It was an honest question, which he asked for. And was already, by the nature of the question, religiously based.




Lorenzo

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Re: SO WHAT if you're BOTH MEN or BOTH WOMEN?
« Reply #75 on: July 03, 2008, 07:40:35 AM »
Pareng Bambi,

By no means am I against individuals who are gay, lesbian, bisexual, transgender. Absolutely Not! I have some friends who are gay. We are all equally human, equally loved by God. All of us are sinners. We all sin, either it be in malcontent, anger, jealousy, pride, swearing, homosexual acts, stealing, conniving, blasphemy, etc.

There is a saying that goes “Hate the sin, but love the sinner,” and that applies to homosexuals as well.   

Do I believe that there is salvation for homosexuals? Of course! Do I believe that the Lord our God looks at homosexuals any less? Of course not! Our God is a loving God. He forgives even the multitudes of sins.

That does not mitigate the fact that it is written in scripture that the act of homosexuality is a sin.

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« Reply #76 on: July 03, 2008, 08:11:46 AM »

mupatak jud sa takilya te no basta ang topic interesting kaayu!!
heeey? what's the point of this?


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udtohan

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« Reply #77 on: July 03, 2008, 09:47:28 AM »
maskin gamay pa na nga sin, sin lang gihapon. to the eyes of God who is Justice, Righteous, sin is a sin.


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« Reply #78 on: July 03, 2008, 09:51:30 AM »
this world is full of negativity...

Be simple. Allow no man to judge you, not even yourself, for you cannot judge God.

Do not allow the unfounded belief in demons to block your communion with God.

God does not create the adversities in life. By your own choice they exist to aid in your perfection.

God allows each person the opportunity for perfection, whether you need one life or a hundred lives to reach your level of perfection.

believes that God is all loving. To be consistent with this love, we must have a means to correct our errors. For the path to God is harsh and varied, and we will stumble along the way. An all loving God will account for such weakness and assist in making us whole. God is Justice and Righteous so God will correct us in our mistakes.


Lorenzo

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« Reply #79 on: July 03, 2008, 10:10:47 AM »

I am overtaken by tears in reading this post, Leo. So very true, my dear friend. So very true.


Amen, Amen, I say Amen unto you.

All Glory and Praise to the Throne of the Most High! Who is Love. Whose graces and mercies are infinite.

Amen!



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