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China a Threat to Philippine Existence
« on: April 20, 2012, 10:06:38 PM »
By Gloria Jane Baylon

The information and public relations drive for a better grasp of the dispute over the internationally-referred Scarborough Shoal, alternatively called “Panatag” and “Bajo de Masinloc” by the Philippine government and the “Huangyan Dao” by the Chinese government has gone full swing on both sides.

Following the Chinese embassy’s primer-style of presenting its side to the media, the Department of Foreign Affairs (DFA) on Wednesday matched the format, with the title “Philippine Position on Bajo de Masinloc and the Waters Within its Vicinity.”

On the whole, DFA’s assertions focused on the geographical technicality of Bajo de Masinloc, Spanish for “under Masinloc,” which are rock features and not an island.

The name Bajo de Masinloc, so termed in 1792, itself identifies the shoal as a particular political subdivision of the Philippines, according to DFA. Old colony-era maps of the Philippines includes Bajo de Masinloc in their configuration, DFA said as it named the sources.

First, DFA countered the Chinese embassy’s assertion that Bajo de Masinloc was never referred to by at least three international treaties that defined Philippine territory as we know it today, including the Treaty of Paris of 1898 wherein Spain ceded the Philippines to the U.S.

DFA also asserted that its sovereignty over the rocks are not based on the proximity principle of the UN Convention of the Law of the Sea or UNCLOS, as put forth by the Chinese embassy.

There are other principles of international law on which Philippine sovereignty is anchored, according to the DFA. “In the case of Bajo de Masinloc, the Philippines has exercised both effective occupation and effective jurisdiction over Bajo de Masinloc since its independence. “

It said: The rock features of Bajo de Masinloc are Philippine territories.

“The basis of Philippine sovereignty and jurisdiction over the rock features of Bajo de Masinloc is not premised on the cession by Spain of the Philippine archipelago to the United States under the Treaty of Paris. The matter that the rock features of Bajo de Masinloc are not included or within the limits of the Treaty of Paris as alleged by China is therefore immaterial and of no consequence,” it continued.

This is what China said: “The Philippine territory is set by a series of international treaties, including the Treaty of Paris(1898), The Treaty of Washington(1900) and the Treaty with Great Britain (1930), none of which ever referred to Huangyan Island or included this island into its territory.

”Until 1997, the Philippine side has never disputed China's jurisdiction of and development on Huangyan Island,” the embassy said. “On the other hand, the Philippines indicated on a number of occasions that Huangyan Island was beyond its territory.”

In insisting that Huangyan Island is Chinese territory, the embassy pointed out that “it is China that first discovered this island, gave it the name, incorporated it into its territory, and exercised jurisdiction over it.”

Bajo de Masinloc, an extension of the municipality of Masinloc in the western Philippine province of Zambales, is an integral part of the Philippines, being 124 nautical miles west of Zambales, according to DFA. It asserts that the disputed area is “within the 200 nautical-mile Exclusive Economic Zone (EEZ) and Philippine continental shelf.”

It describes Bajo de Masinloc as “a ring-shaped coral reef, which has several rocks encircling a lagoon.” It is not part of the also-disputed Spratlys, which is further down south under Palawan’s administration.

The shoals chain of reefs and rocks is about 124 NM from the nearest coast of Luzon and approximately 472 NM from the nearest coast of China. Bajo de Masinloc is located approximately along latitude 15⁰08’ N and longitude 117⁰45’E. The rocks of Bajo de Masinloc are situated north of the Spratlys.

”Obviously therefore, the rocks of Bajo de Masinloc is also within the 200 NM Exclusive Economic Zone (EEZ) and 200 NM Continental Shelf (CS) of the Philippines.”

”Although the Philippines necessarily exercise sovereign rights over its EEZ and CS, nonetheless, the reason why the rock features of Bajo de Masinloc are Philippine territories is anchored on other principles of public international law (and not the UN Convention on the Law of the Sea—UNCLOS),” DFA asserted.

DFA explained that a Philippine navy aircraft on maritime patrol in the shoal and enforcing the country’s Fisheries Code, spotted eight Chinese fishing vessels anchored at the Bajo on April 8.

So on April 10, the surveillance ship “BRP del Pilar” rushed to the scene and its personnel boarded the Chinese vessels. Endangered giants clams, sharks and corals were found in the compartments.

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Re: China a Threat to Philippine Existence
« Reply #1 on: April 20, 2012, 10:50:32 PM »
wow!  ang basis diay sa china sa philippine territory kay ang "gihatag" ra sa spain ngadto sa u.s. (treaty of paris).  unsa kaha nga treaty ang gahatag sa tibet ngadto sa china?
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Re: China a Threat to Philippine Existence
« Reply #2 on: April 21, 2012, 01:25:40 AM »
The problem is that the Chinese still maintain their "Zhonguo" (Middle Kingdom)  mentality in which China is the Cornerstone of Asia. They need to stop this old mentality.

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« Reply #3 on: April 21, 2012, 06:44:59 AM »
The problem is that China is hell-bent on world domination. Bisag unsa na lay pretext sa ilang aggression.  >:(
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« Reply #4 on: April 21, 2012, 12:59:07 PM »

it is now time for our government to seriously modernized our long time neglected armed forces and stop on relying to uncle sam for our defence. if we dont have a credible force to back our claim, we will pushed around by this greedy dragon
only dead fish swims with the current

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Re: China a Threat to Philippine Existence
« Reply #5 on: April 22, 2012, 03:31:44 AM »
I will get back to this thread in a bit; later this week.

But right now, the geopolitical strategy of the United States is in the containment of China.

Now is the time for the Republic of the Philippines to build up its armed forces, tho we are poor and weak compared to our giant neighbor to the west, the Chinese will find out that the Filipino will be a stubborn fighter.

The PH Government needs to be ready in case of invasion and conflict and should set up a contingency policy.


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« Reply #6 on: April 22, 2012, 03:33:32 AM »

They are even claiming a federal state of the Republic of India. They are claiming India's northeastern state of Arunachal Pradesh.

What is next? Will they also claim the entire province of Palawaan since it is within 200 miles of their supposed 200 mile EEZ?  :-[

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« Reply #7 on: April 23, 2012, 12:27:36 PM »
right on.  after the spratlys and the scarborough shoal, the whole philippine archipelago is not far behind.

china uses the EEZ as its reason when it sees fit as it is using the EEZ as its reason for ownership of okinotorishima in its territorial dispute with japan.  in its dispute with the philippines, where it stands no chance with the EEZ, it uses its own history.

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« Reply #8 on: April 23, 2012, 12:41:49 PM »
well, while china as a "threat to philippine existence" is putting it too far (the philippines will exist even if filipinos become martians), china is a threat not only to philippine territorial integrity but also to practically all of its neighbors, even to its own "breakaway province": the republic of china (taiwan), which identifies itself as a separate territory and sovereign.

the countries bullied (or rivaled if it cannot bully them) by china over territory and/or sovereignty:

tibet (as they say, the rest is history)
india (against whom it fought 2 wars over territorial disputes)
russia (hah!  yes, russia too.)
bhutan
mongolia
japan
north korea
south korea
philippines
myanmar
malaysia
vietnam
brunei
republic of china (taiwan)

from its north to south, its east to west, it is as if no neighboring country was spared by china. 

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« Reply #9 on: April 23, 2012, 12:49:04 PM »
The Chinese claim that they have the right to claim Scarborough Shoal because it was listed as "HUANGYAN ISLAND"  [ : 黄岩岛 ] in Old Imperial Qing Dynasty Maps.

The current CCP's argument does not take into consideration the fact that during this time, the Philippines was already part of the Political Entity called Nueva Espana , which was a Viceroyalty of Spain.

The fact that the former Qing Dynasty's cartographers named the shoal as : 黄岩岛 or (pronounced as Huangyan Island), does not necessarily mean ownership since that area was already part of an existing political entity, in this case, the Spanish Philippines.

They are being ridiculous in their arguments because during the time of my great-grandfather, who was a pure-blooded Chinese from present day Guangdong, the people in that area referred to the islands south of China as "Ngoi Dou", which means "far away islands".

My great-grandfather and his family referred to the islands south of China as "Ngoi Dou", as well as this reflected the opinion of the Chinese during this time, which incidentally was under the Imperial Qing Dynasty.

Chinese people back then did not refer to these islands as part of China nor did they consider these areas "fishing grounds" of China. These areas were always referred to as "Fei Guo", since people living in the Philippines were referred to as Feiguoren (pronounced Fei-Guo-Ren).


The arguments of the CCP is preposterous ! This is all political BS ! And they are distorting history !


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« Reply #10 on: April 23, 2012, 12:55:50 PM »
Addendum:

qing-dynasty-map-1892 - China a Threat to Philippine Existence - History

Here is a map of the full extent of Imperial China under the Qing Dynasty, notice that no where does the area around the west of Fei-Guo (Philippines) being claimed or labeled as part of China.

These islands were always referred to as "NGOI DOU", or "far away islands".

The current CCP (Chinese Communist Party) are liars and distorting history.

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« Reply #11 on: April 23, 2012, 01:01:05 PM »

Zhongguo is and has always been a peaceful country, only recently with the rise of the CCP , that they have militarized China.

Chinese in the past were never imperialistic or war-like as the CCP-controlled China of today! When my Lolo Mariano arrived to Pilipinas from China in 1903, he had a lot of respect for the people in the Philippines. Dili man intawn ang attitude sa mga Chinese sa una nga they own these islands nor were they ever imperialistic at all.

These pieces of sh!t CCP members are using ultranationalistic sentiments to politicize this when they know that , historically speaking, their claims are unsupported.

I know that true Chinese people, who actually read history, know that the CCP are feeding the people utter nonsense and BS lies.

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« Reply #12 on: April 23, 2012, 01:15:35 PM »
We have to also understand , guys, that our friends in China are given filtered and repressed online information that their government keeps a tight lid on. The information that they are given are through state-owned media , of course, does not relegate information that the west into great light.

There is no such thing as freedom of information and freedom of press in Communist-controlled China.

The CCP is using this quagmire in the South China Sea to gain the attention of its people of their current and impending governmental crisis involving Bo Xilai.

CCP is very smart and devious in their strategy ! Luoy lang pod ang atong mga higalang inchik that are being lied to by their government.

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« Reply #13 on: April 23, 2012, 08:37:50 PM »

Sorry, but aren't you also being ridiculous with this argument? :P

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« Reply #14 on: April 23, 2012, 09:05:36 PM »
Hahahha di na ni makatabang ang pure blood chinese ug girahon na ta nila.
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« Reply #15 on: April 23, 2012, 09:40:56 PM »

Bai Hubag, it stresses the fact that even back then (some 100 years ago), Chinese people from Southern China never referred to the islands in close proximity to the Philippines as being part of Zhongguo (China), but rather, were always considered part of Feiguo  (Philippines).

As anything outside of China proper was considered foreign. I gave a personal anecdote lang, as my lolo is Chinese and from southern China.
I highly doubt that war will be the case, Raquel. I don't think that the CCP is foolish enough to allow itself to start fighting, it would not serve their interest at all. She has too much at stake to clash head on; her long-term geopolitical interests would be undermined.

The best thing now is for all sides to be diplomatic.

This is very sad because the cultures of China and Philippines is rather intertwined, as many of us share links with them. War should be prevented and all resources should be exhausted to preserve peace between our two great countries.

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« Reply #16 on: April 23, 2012, 09:45:11 PM »

Aw, mao ba? Of course, an anecdote is not an argument any more than a toad is a frog...

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« Reply #17 on: April 23, 2012, 09:51:38 PM »



Di ko gusto ma sideline ani, Bai Hubag, I just merely wanted to state (via my example that my lolo never considered this area as part of China) how differently the Chinese of some 100 years ago thought as the current CCP government.

I wanted to show lang, just in that one segment in my post, as it was part of an entire paragraph, that the current CCP is using erroneous claims considering that the philippines and the territories to its west were already part of an existing political entity.

Additionally, Bai Hubag, I also wanted to stress that ang mga Chinese sa una, they never considered islands outside of China, as part of China. Kining islands sa south east asia, were considered "Ngoi Dou" , which means "Far away islands". Kai duol man kaayo sa Pilipinas, it was considered as part of Fei Guo (Pilipinas).

I stand that the current CCP is using ultranationalism and distorting history to try to gain support from their populace now, when in actuality, these areas were never considered part of "CHina" by the past, nor was it considered part of China by the Chinese people.

What we are seeing right now is how the CCP government is distorting history in order to rival national claims. I just hope and pray that there will be no ethnic clashes in the Pilipinas kai daghan baya mga Inchik sa Pilipinas nga dili mo agree sa CCP. Mo ampo lang ko that this situation between Pilipinas and China calms down.

That's all that I wanted to say, Bai Hubag. Sige ha.


:)

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« Reply #18 on: April 23, 2012, 09:57:11 PM »
In other words; there is an estimated some over 9 trillion units of natural gas and oil in the South China Sea (West Philippine Sea), the only reason why the CCP is now recently claiming these areas is because of resources. They want those natural resources.

So they are inverting history and changing facts so that they can try to claim these areas ; however, the problem is that the world knows that these areas are part of other nation countries via history.

This is the reason why the Philippines is asking CHina to go to the international court to settle this diplomatically, ang problema is that CHina will not go to the court because the CCP knows that her claim is wrong. Kahibalo man ni sila (ang CCP) that sa una, dili man intawn ning area sa south china sea considered part sa China.


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« Reply #19 on: April 23, 2012, 09:57:37 PM »
Sige, Bai Hubag, mo adto na ko sa work. Mo balik ra ko ani unyang gabii. Have a good day to all.




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