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Author Topic: Arguments for and against the existence of God  (Read 2340 times)

hubag bohol

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Arguments for and against the existence of God
« on: April 19, 2012, 06:31:02 AM »
from http://listverse.com/


The Ontological Argument





First formulated by St. Anselm, Archbishop of Canterbury, then taken up by Alvin Plantinga. “God exists, provided that it is logically possible for him to exist.”

This argument is quite brazen in its simplicity, requiring not only a belief in God, but a belief in the necessity of God. If you believe he is necessary, then you must believe he exists.

The Counterargument:

Criticism typically deals with the Ontological Argument committing a “bare assertion fallacy,” which means it asserts qualities inherent solely to an unproven statement, without any support for those qualities. It is also criticized as a circular argument, revolving from a premise to a conclusion which relies on the premise, which relies on the conclusion.

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hubag bohol

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Re: Arguments for and against the existence of God
« Reply #1 on: April 19, 2012, 06:37:13 AM »
The Moral Argument





This argument is very old, and states that God must exist for the following reason: 1. An aspect of morality is observed. 2. Belief in God is a better explanation for this morality than any alternative. 3. Belief in God is thus preferable to disbelief in God.

The Counterargument:

This argument is technically valid, provided that the three constituents are accepted, and most critics refuse to accept the first. Morality, they argue, is not universal. Murder was perfectly fine for the soldiers of the First Crusade, who slaughtered every man, woman, and child in Jerusalem in 1099. Thomas Hobbes argued that morality is based on the society around it, and is thus not objective.

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hubag bohol

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Re: Arguments for and against the existence of God
« Reply #2 on: April 19, 2012, 06:38:28 AM »
The Argument from Degree





This is one of St. Thomas Aquinas’s “Five Proofs of God,” and still causes debate among the two sides. Here is Aquinas’s statement of it, which I have translated from Latin, for a sense of thoroughness:

The fourth proof originates from the degrees discovered in things. For there is discovered greater and lesser degrees of goodness, truth, nobility, and others. But “more” or “less” are terms spoken concerning various things that approach in diverse manners toward something that is the “greatest,” just as in the case of “hotter” approaching nearer the “greatest” heat. There exists, therefore, something “truest,” and “best,” and “noblest,” which, in consequence, is the “greatest” being. For those things which are the greatest truths are the greatest beings, as is stated in Metaphysics Bk. II. 2. Furthermore, that which is the greatest in its way, is, in another way, the cause of all things belonging to it; thus fire, which is the greatest heat, is the cause of all heat, as is said in the same book (cf. Plato and Aristotle). Therefore, there exists something that is the cause of the existence of all things, and of goodness, and of every perfection whatever. We call this “God.”

The Counterargument:

The most prevalent criticism of this argument considers that we do not have to believe in an object of a greater degree in order to believe in an object of a lesser degree. Richard Dawkins, the most famous, or infamous, Atheist around these days, argues that just because we come across a “smelly” object, does not require that we believe that we believe in a “preeminently peerless stinker,” in his words.

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hubag bohol

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Re: Arguments for and against the existence of God
« Reply #3 on: April 19, 2012, 06:39:46 AM »
The Argument from Reason





One of my favorites, with very intricate abstraction. C. S. Lewis (who wrote “The Lion, the Witch, and the Wardrobe”) came up with this. It begins as an argument from design, and then continues into something new. Very basically, it argues that God must exist, because, in Lewis’s words:

“Supposing there was no intelligence behind the universe, no creative mind. In that case, nobody designed my brain for the purpose of thinking. It is merely that when the atoms inside my skull happen, for physical or chemical reasons, to arrange themselves in a certain way, this gives me, as a by-product, the sensation I call thought. But, if so, how can I trust my own thinking to be true? It’s like upsetting a milk jug and hoping that the way it splashes itself will give you a map of London. But if I can’t trust my own thinking, of course I can’t trust the arguments leading to Atheism, and therefore have no reason to be an Atheist, or anything else. Unless I believe in God, I cannot believe in thought: so I can never use thought to disbelieve in God.”

The Counterargument:

It sounds powerful, and the final judgment on it is still out there. But its primary weak point is that, in the strictest sense, it is not a proof of God’s existence because it requires the assumption that human minds can assess the truth or falsehood of a claim, and it requires that human minds can be convinced by argumentation.

But in order to reject the assumption that human minds can assess the truth or falsehood of a claim, a human mind must assume that this claim is true or false, which immediately proves that human minds can assess the truth or falsehood of a claim.

But none of this has anything to do with God’s existence. Thus, the argument is better treated as a disproof of naturalistic materialism. However, given that most Atheists use naturalistic materialism as the foundation of Atheism, is is a very viable argument.

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Re: Arguments for and against the existence of God
« Reply #4 on: April 19, 2012, 06:41:10 AM »
The Cosmological Argument





Thomas Aquinas’s most famous proof of God refuses to go away. You’ve probably already heard of it in some form. It was around before Aquinas, at least as early as Plato and Aristotle, and in basic terms, it goes like this:

1. Every finite and contingent being has a cause.
2. Nothing finite and contingent can cause itself.
3. A causal chain cannot be of infinite length.
4. Therefore, a First Cause (or something that is not an effect) must exist.

This is especially impressive in that it was theorized by the Ancient Greeks, at a time when the Universe was not known to have had an origin. Today, we call this “the Big Bang,” and the argument has changed to this form:

1. Whatever begins to exist has a cause.
2. The Universe began to exist.
3. Therefore, the Universe had a cause.

The Counterargument:

Sequentially speaking, these three points are true. But the second point requires the Universe to have had a cause, and we still aren’t sure it did. “The Big Bang” is the most prevalent astrophysical theory today, but it has its detractors, most arguing that because the mathematics that leads back to a big bang do not function at the point immediately prior to the big bang, those mathematics were invalid to begin with.

Better than this, however, is the argument that this proof of God commits the logical fallacy called “infinite regression.” If the Universe had a first cause, what caused that first cause? Criticism declares that it is unfair to argue for every thing’s cause, and then argue for the sole exception of a “First Cause,” which did not have a cause.

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Lorenzo

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Re: Arguments for and against the existence of God
« Reply #5 on: April 19, 2012, 08:54:31 AM »
Great thread ! This should be a feast for our theology members :)

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Re: Arguments for and against the existence of God
« Reply #6 on: April 19, 2012, 10:20:03 AM »
Oh my my my God! Some human being (people) now-a-days seem to have been blind folded by his intellect which tends to circumnavigate the TRUTH about the existence of the Divine Creator, the Great Provider, the Merciful, the Benevolent, the way and the Light. I like very very much this topic and to my honest disposition, MAN after all the blessings received though some people now tried to disagree the fact that HIS intellect is only borrowed from whom?........ the Divine Creator! Lengthy discussions in whatever forms and by whoever will surely come to an end that NOTHING EXISTS without a cause which is the primer of all that exist. CAUSE and EFFECT principle is enough to abide with. Big Bang advocates, you are saying that all those that your eyes can see up  there at the outer space and even WE are results of that incident. I beg to disagree with the fact that CREATION is very different from Invention. I will start with invention. When a scientist invented something, he/she must be using something/anything just to come up with an invention WHEREAS Creation, since I for one of those who believed the existence of GOD, is the act of having something/anything out of nothing. If you're walking on the beach and saw some footprints, that goes to prove that somebody came ahead of you. All heavenly bodies up there at the outer space including that BIG BANG were signs of somebody who is a Supreme Being and that is GOD! Big Bang as a theory is also a product of human mind. To make this brief, ALL things big and small, the LORD GOD made them ALL!

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Lorenzo

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Re: Arguments for and against the existence of God
« Reply #7 on: April 19, 2012, 11:41:11 AM »
You make a very strong case and a very passionate declaration, Higalang Suban-on. :)

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Re: Arguments for and against the existence of God
« Reply #8 on: April 19, 2012, 11:46:15 AM »
I will state some points later on. First, I want to read what other members have to add to this very auspicious thread.

:)

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islander

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Re: Arguments for and against the existence of God
« Reply #9 on: April 19, 2012, 05:57:39 PM »
the arguments show writing at its best; easy to grasp, precise and crisp, not convoluted in any way.  readers can take their pick without the burden of intellectualizing.  thanks, hubag.

in the end, we believe in a god because if we didn't what else is there to believe in? 

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simplylee

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Re: Arguments for and against the existence of God
« Reply #10 on: April 20, 2012, 04:46:05 PM »
whatever our beliefs might be does not alter the existence of GOD...

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simplylee

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Re: Arguments for and against the existence of God
« Reply #11 on: April 20, 2012, 04:49:16 PM »
i would like to suggest a book which explains on this matter "Heathenism" by R.B. Thieme Jr.

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hubag bohol

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Re: Arguments for and against the existence of God
« Reply #12 on: April 20, 2012, 07:23:17 PM »
Oh my my my God! Some human being (people) now-a-days seem to have been blind folded by his intellect which tends to circumnavigate the TRUTH about the existence of the Divine Creator, the Great Provider, the Merciful, the Benevolent, the way and the Light. I like very very much this topic and to my honest disposition, MAN after all the blessings received though some people now tried to disagree the fact that HIS intellect is only borrowed from whom?........ the Divine Creator! Lengthy discussions in whatever forms and by whoever will surely come to an end that NOTHING EXISTS without a cause which is the primer of all that exist. CAUSE and EFFECT principle is enough to abide with. Big Bang advocates, you are saying that all those that your eyes can see up  there at the outer space and even WE are results of that incident. I beg to disagree with the fact that CREATION is very different from Invention. I will start with invention. When a scientist invented something, he/she must be using something/anything just to come up with an invention WHEREAS Creation, since I for one of those who believed the existence of GOD, is the act of having something/anything out of nothing. If you're walking on the beach and saw some footprints, that goes to prove that somebody came ahead of you. All heavenly bodies up there at the outer space including that BIG BANG were signs of somebody who is a Supreme Being and that is GOD! Big Bang as a theory is also a product of human mind. To make this brief, ALL things big and small, the LORD GOD made them ALL!

“The Big Bang” is the most prevalent astrophysical theory today, but it has its detractors, most arguing that because the mathematics that leads back to a big bang do not function at the point immediately prior to the big bang, those mathematics were invalid to begin with.

Better than this, however, is the argument that this proof of God commits the logical fallacy called “infinite regression.” If the Universe had a first cause, what caused that first cause? Criticism declares that it is unfair to argue for every thing’s cause, and then argue for the sole exception of a “First Cause,” which did not have a cause.

Halangdon namong St. Thomas Aquinas,
Morag way klaro ang imong pangagpas
Kay kami nga nagtuon lag ginagmay
Ning maong langtugi di kalahutay...

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Lorenzo

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Re: Arguments for and against the existence of God
« Reply #13 on: April 21, 2012, 01:18:11 AM »
i would like to suggest a book which explains on this matter "Heathenism" by R.B. Thieme Jr.

I'll check this one out. :)

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