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Nature or Nurture?
« on: October 08, 2008, 05:33:11 AM »
murderers?
people with very high IQs?
people who prefers the same sex to love?

do you think it is because of their genes OR because of their environment and how they were brought up?

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Re: Nature or Nurture?
« Reply #1 on: October 08, 2008, 05:47:48 AM »
Kiamoy,
This is very interesting! I could remember Newsweek magazine made a report on this, what causes one to be a murderer, homosexuality, drug addiction and the like.
Nature or nurture?   With the first 80 % nurture, , the second still undetermined and the third nature, this propensity to be addicted is hereditary. The article is 15 years old. There must be some more lights on this issue.

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Re: Nature or Nurture?
« Reply #2 on: October 08, 2008, 01:46:21 PM »
I think nurture plays a big role in ones individuality with nature component as a lesser factor.  As to specific percentage, I'd go for about the percentage that Manay Tess gave.
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Re: Nature or Nurture?
« Reply #3 on: October 08, 2008, 02:06:10 PM »


The study of Biology teaches that nature and nurture both plays a role in the creation of individuals and their personalities and actions within a given physical niche (society in general, per se).

Medically and Scientifically speaking, we are all pre-programmed via the manifestation of chromosomal junction during the phase of meiosis and mitosis. In the selection of what chromosomal types would be given to the offspring via the genetic prints of the father's spermatozoa and the mother's oovum.

By the power of fertilization; half the traits of the father and half the traits of the mother have been impinged into the offspring, immediately. Genetically already pre-programmed.

However, genetics only plays a 50% role. Environment is also a determining factor in the metastasis of the individual's personality. If an individual grows up in an abusive and harmful environment, is plagued with peer pressure, societal pressures, then of course, the individual will develop into what his or her environment demands--with genetic determinism playing a role. The antithesis of this example can also manifest.

Biologically speaking, both niche and genetics are the determinant factors.


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Lorenzo

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Re: Nature or Nurture?
« Reply #4 on: October 08, 2008, 02:30:43 PM »

Individuals who are 'intelligent' or have 'high IQs' are nothing special, imho.

There is a physiological/medical explanation for everything.

Individuals with excellent memory and retrieval of memory and understanding of concepts (mathematics, science, linguistics etc) is because of the development of their nervous system.

Within a nervous system, there is the CNS, and the PNS. The CNS = Central Nervous System and the PNS = Peripheral Nervous System.

Medically speaking, in the central nervous system messages are propagated from the brain and spinal cord via a anterograde direction with help of the oligodendrocytes that covers and invaginates around the axon that runs and connects one neuron to another via the synaptic clefts. Because of the -65mV gradient in the axolemma there is a 1/10th concentration of NA++ (sodium) inside the axolemma and there is a high presence of Sodium ions outside in the extracellular space. There is also a high concentration of K (potassium) inside the plasma. However, when electrical impulses are transversed form the brain to its terminal destination, the impulses changes the membrane in that it allows the NA ion channels to open thus allowing all the NA ions to enter the membrane due to the natural gradient (via passive diffusion). This continues until the charge within the particular neural membrane changes to +30mV and this leads to a closure of the NA ion channels and prevents NA form coming in; this presence alters the K presence in that K will flow back due to attraction to the positively charged NA ions inside. This forces the NA to be removed out and K invagination propagates the electrical impuse from one axon to the the next axon until it reaches the terminal end; thereby allowing the release of neurotransmitters or neuromodulators (such as epinephrine or norepinephrine calcitonin, etc) and leads to its direct effect on glands, muscles, or other parts of the brain to retrieve information. etc.

Critical to the immediacy of electrical nerve impulses in its trajectory is the proper myelination of axons via Oligodendrocytes, Schwann Cells, Astrocytes, Glial Cells etc. These structures form a fatty deposit and covers the axon thereby allowing it to conduct the electrical neuronal impulses. The myelin sheath forms a protective layering almost like the plastic covering that is above copper wires to allow and enhance the flow of messages in a telephone wire, cable wire etc.

Naturally and physiologically speaking, the thicker an individual's myelin sheath are (which are impeded or regulated or enhanced by the level of schwann cell, oligodendrocytic activity etc). Thereby allowing the quick afferent and efferent relaying of neuronal information to its terminal sites.

All of which, are genetically determined. Genetics plays a role in the status of the axon of a person's given brian, and the wiring of their cerebral and medullar cortex.

An individual with excellent wiring in the neuronal aspects will, by right of physiological explanation, will have a faster memory recognition, faster and more effective understanding of concepts, memory imputing. And an individual with weaker neuronal wirings will, by right of physiology, have a weaker faculty.

Biology and Science explains everything.

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Re: Nature or Nurture?
« Reply #5 on: October 08, 2008, 06:16:22 PM »
Lorenzo, kindly explain how some geniuses like Stephen Hawkings with a deteriorated physical state managed to maintain his brilliant theories and equation of the universe despite his near vegetative condition.

I remembered a movie about Adolf Hitler's clones, I forgot the title, it sounds like The 5th Protocol or something. Where, 5 clones of Adolf Hitler were raised in different environment. Their differ intellectually but have common character traits, like they have strong determination. Also they end the lives of their pets who does not meet thier expectations. That was an old movie when I was in high school. This movie tells that character traits are in the gene.
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Re: Nature or Nurture?
« Reply #6 on: October 09, 2008, 03:14:16 AM »

Simple.

Brilliant men such as Professor Stephen Hawkings have not lost their neuronal sheaths that is responsible for the transduction of neuronal electrical impuses in their brain. Therefore, they have total control of their memory, and mastery of concepts such as found in Physics: Relativity, Worm Theory, Vortex-Space Black Holes, String Theory etc.

Individuals such as Professor Hawkings may have had neuromuscular fibrillar problems; thereby resulting in physical imobility, however, there is no damage to their CNS. The PNS might have been affected; and regenerative capacity inhibited, however, the CNS, which is the controller of complex processes, physiologically speaking, has remained untouched.

Within the CNS, there is a rich presence of oligodendrocytes, which are able to transmit messages. Compared to the more limited Schwann Cells and Astrocytes found in the PNS (peripheral nervous system).

The way our bodies are organized, Mr. Ferniz, our cortical and cerebellar corteces are alien from moter nerve branches. Hence the presence of the differentiation of CNS and PNS. Thus,j any damage to the PNS will have little to no direct effect on the CNS, as in the case of Dr. Hawkins and individuals that have his condition of neuromuscular dysjunction.


Cheers, Sir!

Lorenzo

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Re: Nature or Nurture?
« Reply #7 on: October 09, 2008, 06:35:57 AM »
Mr. Ferniz,

On the light of the given topic, I would also like to share with you that our CNS and PNS are able to regenerate even after neuronal degeneration. So long as the damage is on the prokaryo itself and not on the particular axon; that the axon isn't severed.

Within the PNS, we have satellite stem cells, which are of primordial mesenchymal cell origin. And upon damage of the Schwann Cells (which forms and produces myelin that coats the axon of the PNS) the satellite stem cells with metastisize and form into schwann cells and cover the affected axon and thereby produce myelin and maintain the conductory aspect to allow continued neural electrical impulses to propagate to its end terminal site.

The CNS also has highly regenerative capability, however, our body's ability to regenerate damaged neural tissue is limited to the type of damage as well as the age of the individual.


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Re: Nature or Nurture?
« Reply #8 on: October 09, 2008, 04:13:40 PM »
Please take note, talking back about homosexuality, how about those latent outings. Persons who have lead their normal lives , raised kids and found out they are on the wrong track?
Homos who are late bloomers?
Any comment please?

ps
I have a great respect for this people, and they are allowed to get marry here in my federal state North rhine Wesphalia as a legal couple.

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Re: Nature or Nurture?
« Reply #9 on: October 10, 2008, 02:42:18 AM »
"Nature" is more influential than "nurture":
Knowledge arises from genetic information honed by a process of natural selection. Some portions of this knowledge might be nurtured, but genetically determined forms also may modify how we categorize our experiences.

In looking for the causes of individual differences in intelligence, a major issue is the relative contribution of genetics and environment.

references:

http://www.accessexcellence.org/LC/SER/BE/whata.php

http://wilderdom.com/personality/L4-1IntelligenceNatureVsNurture.html

http://www.trinity.edu/mkearl/socpsy-2.html
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Re: Nature or Nurture?
« Reply #10 on: October 10, 2008, 04:53:44 AM »
"Nature" is more influential than "nurture":[/b]
Knowledge arises from genetic information honed by a process of natural selection. Some portions of this knowledge might be nurtured, but genetically determined forms also may modify how we categorize our experiences.

In looking for the causes of individual differences in intelligence, a major issue is the relative contribution of genetics and environment.

references:

http://www.accessexcellence.org/LC/SER/BE/whata.php

http://wilderdom.com/personality/L4-1IntelligenceNatureVsNurture.html

http://www.trinity.edu/mkearl/socpsy-2.html

The degree of intelligence an individual has is predisposed during the phase of chromosomal dysjunction of the germ cells: the father's spermatozoa and the mother's oovum.

Intelligence is dependent on two major neuronal metastasis:

1)The degree and ability of the CNS and primarily the cortices the cerebrum, the cerebellum to retrieve, reclaim, and pronounce stored memory.
   
     Integral to that are:
     a) The length of the neuronal fibers that propagate the neuronal electrical impulses
          and reach the terminal target site.
     b) The availability of the oligodendrocyte cells to allow proper insulation and
          conduction of neural electrical impulses
     c) The availability and the functionality of cerebellar and cerebral cortices
 

If an invididual's neural processes as mentioned above, are inhibited or impeded in anyway as in occlusion, chromosomal abboration due to malformation of the granulocytes caused by a defect in proteins such as spectrin, integrins, alpha 4.1, etc; then there will be a pronounced inhibitory effect or inability of the neural processes complete its assigned task, which has been evolutionarily pre-programmed.

Genetics, as already mentioned, is an influential role. As the amount of myelination of our axons, our prokaryons, our glial cells etc depends on our genetic codets that has been acquired from both germ cells of the mother and father.


I submit that intelligence of an individual is not based on genetics alone, but genetics has substantial predisposition. An individual can have all the faculties to retrieve memory and to understand complex concepts due to an active memory cortex, however, if that individual does not apply his/herself, then their given genetic gifts would be of no avail.


Environment plays a role in this by motivating or demotivating an individual. This is where environmental niche 'nurture' plays its part.



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Re: Nature or Nurture?
« Reply #11 on: October 20, 2008, 10:41:36 AM »
both, nurturing is how you are brought up dictated by family, friends and other individuals.  nature is how  you adapted to your surroundings from where you are in those stages of your lifetime.
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Re: Nature or Nurture?
« Reply #12 on: November 23, 2008, 11:06:41 PM »

I am no expert in sexual psychology but I do have a fairly good understanding in medical psychology, and I do understand that these types of feelings are based on societal niche the individual lives in and is part of, as well as some genetic aberration that leads to the secretion of antithesis enzymes. What I mean for this is a given male with XY genotype is producing abnormal amounts of estrogen, progesterone and androgen-inhibitors, as well as Mullerian Inhibiting factors. Or a woman with a given genotype of XX is producing abnormal amount of testosterone and TDFs.

This not only leads to the medical manifest of pseudohermaphrodism, but feelings that are symptomatic of the opposite sex. In this case, it is an example of nothing more than genetic aberration during the chromosomal disjunction during the early meitoic stage.

It is simple in a genetic level, but the larger organismal level, it translates to conducts and actions that may be counter indicative of the arbitrary societal notions of 'right' and 'wrong'. Or ego and superego and id.

In this we have a clash of simple molecular biology explanation with the psychology and sociology of society. Norms, ethics, values, tradition conflicts with genetic aberration.



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hofelina

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Re: Nature or Nurture?
« Reply #13 on: November 24, 2008, 06:19:56 AM »
I have read in a German magazine that a child´s inelligence comes 60% from the mother and recessive genes ( which brings the negative hereditary traits) comes from the father. Is this true, Ondoy Lorenzo?

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Re: Nature or Nurture?
« Reply #14 on: November 24, 2008, 06:36:18 AM »
Majority of all genetic traits an offspring has will come from the mother. The mother's genotype is XX, the father is XY. This is magnified if the father is R recessive.

Most of the child's mitochondrial DNA comes from the mother. Why? Because the Mitochondria that is in the father's sperm is removed when the tail is cleaved of. All mitochondrial DNA an offspring has is from the mother. So any mitocondrial-linked diseases an individual has is traced back to the mother.

Mitochondria is the key.

Mitochondria is the powerhouse of the cell. It provides and helps in the synthesis of ATP. Which is Adenosine Tri-Phosphate, which is the molecular energy unit of the body. Produced when ADP + P is combined (ADP= Adenosine Di-phosphate).

ATP provides energy for muscular activity, provides energy for cellular reproduction (mitosis, meiosis, transcription, elongation, translation etc). ATP is the energy source for sending efferent and afferent messages to and from their site to the target site.

Electrical impulse, is the basis of memory retrieval, memory retrieval is the basis for intelligence. :)


So, yes, it is true. Level of intelligence is based and linked on the mother. By shear genetics on basis of Mitochondrial diapedesis.

:) :)

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Re: Nature or Nurture?
« Reply #15 on: December 17, 2008, 09:37:57 PM »
[/quote] I submit that intelligence of an individual is not based on genetics alone, but genetics has substantial predisposition. An individual can have all the faculties to retrieve memory and to understand complex concepts due to an active memory cortex, however, if that individual does not apply his/herself, then their given genetic gifts would be of no avail.

Environment plays a role in this by motivating or demotivating an individual. This is where environmental niche 'nurture' plays its part.[/quote]


What an interesting topic! At least for now, I understand it better grim aspects having some connections with the Brain Dominance Theory. It was presumed in that theory that the two sides of the brain have each distinct character functions which determines the traits of an individual. One side is preprogramed for the creativeness of the individual while the other is for his inquisitive character. To say it in laymans language, one side of the brain is created and preprogrammed to make that person creative and industrious while the other is created and preprogrammed for inquisitiveness and relaxation just as an easy-go-lucky guy. Normally most individual tends to use always the left side of their brain because they wanted to live a life in relaxation and not thru hard work. That leaves the right side of the brain so seldom put to use. Genius and other individuals with high IQs by nurture know how to balance or cross-utilize both sides of their brains.

   However, there are known cases where easy-go-lucky guys were being transformed from their lifestyles and started to discover their inherent talents thru sheer experience from the environment. Accidents are the major catalyst of character chance in a person where a means of survival is at stake. As a matter of survival, an individual has now the urge to utilize fully the creative side of his brain. Some examples that can manifest to this case are: Mozart, a blind genius of music; a blind entertainer in Quiapo underpass who eke a living from alms using his ingeniuty in playing musical instruments with developed singing voice; a double arm amputee who paints pictures using his two feet, etc.

This particular theory is also proven true in simultaneous transformations of individuals or populace thru influential proddings of leaders with strong character and determinations. Examples to this case: The Jews who experienced that thin lining of living within the genocidal character of Adolf Hitler, became successful businessmen; Japan who experienced the atomic bombings of Nagasaki and Hirosima became the first industrialized country in Asia, etc.







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Re: Nature or Nurture?
« Reply #16 on: December 22, 2008, 11:37:04 AM »
Individual's character is thus, based upon nature as well as nurture.

Glad to read about your input in Brain Dominance Theory, Layman.

Interesting input, sir.

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Re: Nature or Nurture?
« Reply #17 on: December 22, 2008, 12:55:48 PM »
Grace builds in nature....
Artificial Intelligence is nothing in comparison to Natural Stupidity.



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