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Author Topic: Discussion On Baptism  (Read 2248 times)

Lorenzo

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Discussion On Baptism
« on: August 09, 2009, 02:31:00 PM »
Is Baptism, The Sacrament of Baptism, Biblical?


Answer: YOU GOT IT!

The word baptize is from the Greek word baptizo, and the word baptism is from the Greek word batisma or baptismos. Together they are found 100 times in the New Testament. Thayer's Lexicon lists three primary meanings of the word baptize:

to dip repeatedly, to immerge, submerge
to cleanse by dipping or submerging, to wash, to make clean with water
metaphorically, to overwhelm
 

15 Times Figuratively

Of those 100 times, 14 are found in the four Gospel accounts of the one time Jesus uses the word figuratively to refer to the overwhelming sufferings of His life. Matthew's account (20:22) tells of Jesus asking His disciples, "Are you able to drink of the cup that I shall drink of, and be baptized with the baptism that I am baptized with?" One other time the word is used figuratively in 1 Corinthians 10:2 in reference to Moses and the Israelites. There it says: "And all were baptized into Moses in the cloud and in the sea."

The NT Teaching on Baptism

There are numerous places in the New Testament that refer to baptism. In Matthew 28:19, Jesus commanded His disciples to go and baptize all nations. In Mark 16:16, Jesus said, "He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; he that believeth not shall be damned." In Acts 2:38, as already mentioned, after the people asked what they needed to do, Peter said, "Repent, and let each of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins, and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit." Verse 41 says "those who received his word were baptized" and there were about 3000 then added to the church. In Acts 22:16, Ananias told Saul, "Arise, and be baptized, and wash away your sins, calling on the name of the Lord."

The Bible teaches that salvation is only through Christ, the Son of God (John 14:6; 1 John 5:11-13). It also teaches that we put Christ on through baptism. In Galations 3:27, Paul says, "All of you who were baptized into Christ have put on Christ." Paul reminds Christians in Romans 6:3-4 that "all of us who have been baptized into Christ Jesus have been baptized into His death." He says that just as Christ died, was buried, and was raised again, so also we "through baptism [are raised to] walk in newness of life." Notice Paul does not say that baptism is symbolic of salvation; it is not our re-enactment of the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus. It is, in fact, God's re-enacting such in us as He gives to us at that point a brand new of life in Jesus! (See also Colossians 2:12-13.)

1 Corinthians 12:13 teaches the same thing: "By one Spirit we were all baptized into one body." Just as Paul said to the Romans, it is at the point of baptism that we come into the body, or church of Christ. 1 Peter 3:20-21 says, "In [the ark] a few, that is, eight persons, were saved by water. And corresponding to that (the like figure), baptism now saves you-not the removal of dirt from the flesh, but an appeal to God for a good conscience-through the resurrection of Jesus Christ."

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mistyeyed

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Re: Discussion On Baptisim
« Reply #1 on: August 09, 2009, 02:43:18 PM »
Nice to have knowledge about this topic.You will understand more about the importance of why we are baptized.Thank you Lorenz.

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Re: Discussion On Baptisim
« Reply #2 on: August 09, 2009, 04:16:38 PM »
para naku ang baptism buhaton kun nakasabot nganong magpabaptize siya. unsay kahulugan sa bawtismo sa iyang pagkaluwas gikan sa iyang pagkamakasasala.

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Lorenzo

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Re: Discussion On Baptisim
« Reply #3 on: August 09, 2009, 11:37:36 PM »
That Christ instituted the Sacrament of Baptism is unquestionable. Rationalists, like Harnack (Dogmengeschichte, I, 68), dispute it, only by arbitrarily ruling out the texts which prove it. Christ not only commands His Disciples (Matthew 28:19) to baptize and gives them the form to be used, but He also declares explicitly the absolute necessity of baptism (John 3): "Unless a man be born again of water and the Holy Ghost, he can not enter into the Kingdom of God." Moreover, from the general doctrine of the Church on the sacraments, we know that the efficacy attached to them is derivable only from the institution of the Redeemer.

When, however, we come to the question as to when precisely Christ instituted baptism, we find that ecclesiastical writers are not agreed. The Scriptures themselves are silent upon the subject. Various occasions have been pointed out as the probable time of institution, as when Christ was Himself baptized in the Jordan, when He declared the necessity of the rebirth to Nicodemus, when He sent His Apostles and Disciples to preach and baptize.

The first opinion was quite a favorite with many of the Fathers and Schoolmen, and they are fond of referring to the sanctification of the baptismal water by contact with the flesh of the God-man. Others, as St. Jerome and St. Maximus, appear to assume that Christ baptized John on this occasion and thus instituted the sacrament. There is nothing, however, in the Gospels to indicate that Christ baptized the Precursor at the time of His own baptism. As to the opinion that it was in the colloquy with Nicodemus that the sacrament was instituted, it is not surprising that it has found few adherents. Christ's words indeed declare the necessity of such an institution, but no more. It seems also very unlikely that Christ would have instituted the sacrament in a secret conference with one who was not to be a herald of its institution.

The more probable opinion seems to be that baptism, as a sacrament, had its origin when Christ commissioned His Apostles to baptize, as narrated in John 3 and 4. There is nothing directly in the text as to the institution, but as the Disciples acted evidently under the instruction of Christ, He must have taught them at the very outset the matter and form of the sacrament which they were to dispense. It is true that St. John Chrysostom (Homily 28 on the Gospel of John), Theophylactus (in cap. iii, Joan.), and Tertullian (On Baptism, Chapter 2) declare that the baptism given by the Disciples of Christ as narrated in these chapters of St. John was a baptism of water only and not of the Holy Ghost; but their reason is that the Holy Ghost was not given until after the Resurrection. As theologians have pointed out, this is a confusion between the visible and the invisible manifestation of the Holy Spirit. The authority of St. Leo (Epistle 16) is also invoked for the same opinion, inasmuch as he seems to hold that Christ instituted the sacrament when, after His rising from the dead, He gave the command (Matthew 28): "Go and teach . . . baptizing"; but St. Leo's words can easily be explained otherwise, and in another part of the same epistle he refers to the sanction of regeneration given by Christ when the water of baptism flowed from His side on the Cross; consequently, before the Resurrection. All authorities agree that Matthew 28, contains the solemn promulgation of this sacrament, and St. Leo does not seem to intend more than this. We need not delay on the arguments of those who declare baptism to have been necessarily established after Christ's death, because the efficacy of the sacraments is derived from His Passion. This would prove also that the Holy Eucharist was not instituted before His death, which is untenable. As to the frequent statement of the Fathers that the sacraments flowed from the side of Christ upon the Cross, it is enough to say that beyond the symbolism found therein, their words can be explained as referring to the death of Christ, as the meritorious cause or perfection of the sacraments, but not necessarily as their time of institution.

All things considered, we can safely state, therefore, that Christ most probably instituted baptism before His Passion. For in the first place, as is evident from John 3 and 4, Christ certainly conferred baptism, at least by the hands of His Disciples, before His Passion. That this was an essentially different rite from John the Precursor's baptism seems plain, because the baptism of Christ is always preferred to that of John, and the latter himself states the reason: "I baptize with water . . . [Christ] baptizeth with the Holy Ghost" (John 1). In the baptism given by the Disciples as narrated in these chapters we seem to have all the requisites of a sacrament of the New Law:

the external rite,
the institution of Christ, for they baptized by His command and mission, and
the conferring of grace, for they bestowed the Holy Ghost (John 1).
In the second place, the Apostles received other sacraments from Christ, before His Passion, as the Holy Eucharist at the Last Supper, and Holy orders (Council of Trent, Sess. XXVI, c. i). Now as baptism has always been held as the door of the Church and the necessary condition for the reception of any other sacrament, it follows that the Apostles must have received Christian baptism before the Last Supper. This argument is used by St. Augustine (Epistle 44) and certainly seems valid. To suppose that the first pastors of the Church received the other sacraments by dispensation, before they had received baptism, is an opinion with no foundation in Scripture or Tradition and devoid of verisimilitude. The Scriptures nowhere state that Christ Himself conferred baptism, but an ancient tradition (Nicephorus, Hist. eccl, II, iii; Clement of Alexandria, Stromata, Book III) declares that He baptized the Apostle Peter only, and that the latter baptized Andrew, James, and John, and they the other Apostles.

(Source: Catholic Encyclopedia)

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Lorenzo

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Re: Discussion On Baptisim
« Reply #4 on: August 09, 2009, 11:39:12 PM »
The remission of all sin, original and actual

This is clearly contained in the Bible. Thus we read (Acts 2:38): "Be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ, for the remission of your sins; and you shall receive the Holy Ghost. For the promise is to you and to your children and to all that are far off, whomsoever the Lord our God shall call." We read also in the twenty-second chapter of the Acts of the Apostles (verse 16):

Be baptized, and wash away thy sins." St. Paul in the fifth chapter of his Epistle to the Ephesians beautifully represents the whole Church as being baptized and purified (5:25 sq.): "Christ loved the Church, and delivered Himself up for it: that he might sanctify it, cleansing it by the washing of water in the word of life: that he might present it to Himself a glorious Church, not having spot or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish.

The prophecy of Ezekiel (36:25) has also been understood of baptism: "I will pour upon you clean water, and you shall be cleansed from all your filthiness (inquinamentis), where the prophet is unquestionably speaking of moral defilements.

This is also the solemn teaching of the Church. In the profession of faith prescribed by Pope Innocent III for the Waldensians in 1210, we read: We believe that all sins are remitted in baptism, both original sin and those sins which have been voluntarily committed." The Council of Trent (Sess. V., can. v) anathematizes whomsoever denies that the grace of Christ which is conferred in baptism does not remit the guilt of original sin; or asserts that everything which can truly and properly be called sin is not thereby taken away.

The same is taught by the Fathers. St. Justin Martyr (First Apology 66) declares that in baptism we are created anew, that is, consequently, free from all stain of sin. St. Ambrose (On the Mysteries 3) says of baptism: "This is the water in which the flesh is submerged that all carnal sin may be washed away. Every transgression is there buried." Tertullian (On Baptism 7) writes: "Baptism is a carnal act in as much as we are submerged in the water; but the effect is spiritual, for we are freed from our sins." The words of Origen (In Gen., xiii) are classic: "If you transgress, you write unto yourself the handwriting [chirographum] of sin. But, behold, when you have once approached to the cross of Christ and to the grace of baptism, your handwriting is affixed to the cross and blotted out in the font of baptism." It is needless to multiply testimonies from the early ages of the Church. It is a point on which the Fathers are unanimous, and telling quotations might also be made from St. Cyprian, Clement of Alexandria, St. Hilary, St. Cyril of Jerusalem, St. Basil, St. Gregory Nazianzen, and others.

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fdaray

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Re: Discussion On Baptism
« Reply #5 on: August 10, 2009, 08:39:16 AM »
Baptism - What the Bible says:

Believer's Baptism is an act of obedience that follows conversion to portray symbolically the washing away of our sins. Water baptism calls for immersion instead of sprinkling.

Many groups that have only sprinkled in times past are now seeing that the Scriptural method is total immersion in water. In fact, the Greek word "baptizo" means to immerse, submerse and emerge.

CHRIST'S BAPTISM
Jesus Christ was baptised (ie fully emersed) in the river Jordan. Clearly it was a very important step for Christ and is documented in the 4 gospels.

Mark 1: v 9-10
"At that time Jesus came from Nazareth in Galilee and was baptised by John in the Jordan.
As Jesus was coming out of the water, he saw heaven being torn open and the Spirit descending on him like a dove. And a voice came from heaven: "You are my Son, whom I love; with you I am well pleased."

BAPTISM - CHRIST'S INSTRUCTION
Matthew 28:18-20
Then Jesus came to them and said, "All authority in heaven and in earth. Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world. Amen

This commission is given to the disciples but has ongoing relevance to Christian Leaders (present and future) of the Christian Church through the centuries. This verse is a clear basis for the need for Missionary work and the baptism of believers.

BAPTISM - NEW TESTAMENT PRACTICE
Records of baptisms in the New Testament confirm this meaning.
Matthew 3: v 6
John baptised believers "Confessing their sins, they were baptised by him in the Jordan River."

Mark 1: v 4 - 5.
"And so John came, baptising in the desert region and preaching a baptism of repentance for the forgiveness of sins." The whole Judean countryside and all the people of Jerusalem went out to him. Confessing their sins, they were baptised by him in the Jordan River."

Acts 8: v 26 - 40
Here Luke describes the baptism of the Ethiopian
35 Then Philip began with the very passage of scripture and told him the good news about Jesus.
36 As they travelled along the road, they came to some water and the eunuch said, "Look, here is water; Why shouldn't I be baptised?
37 Phillip said, "If you believe with all your heart, you may." The eunuch answered, "I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God."
38 And he gave orders to stop the chariot. Then both Philip and the eunuch went down both into the water, and Phillip baptised him.
39 When they came up out of the water, the Spirit of the Lord suddenly took Phillip away, and the eunuch did not see him again, but went on his way rejoicing.

Here Phillip preached Jesus and baptism. The Eunuch received Jesus and was baptised in obedience to God's Word after he was "born again." From these verses we can see the importance of Baptism. They both went down into the water so Baptism means emersion NOT sprinkling. Baptism is in obedience to God's Word, and by it we identify ourselves with Christ's death, burial, and resurrection.

BAPTISM and SALVATION

The baptism itself does not bring salvation; salvation inspires the practice of baptism. It should be considered as the first thing we do after we are "born again." Those who have received Jesus Christ in their hearts should desire to follow Jesus Christ in this sacrament. Jesus Himself came to John the Baptist to receive His baptism because He was to take the sins of the world at His death. These sins would be washed away by God for those people who put their trust in Him.

John 1: v29-31.
"The next day John saw Jesus coming towards and said, "Look, the Lamb of God, who takes away the sin of the world! This is the one I meant when I said, "A man who comes after me has surpassed me because he was before me." I myself did not know him, but the reason I came baptising with water was that he might be revealed to Israel."

There is no such infant baptism in the Bible. It is emersion not sprinkling on the forehead. A person to be baptized is a believer.

Let us follow the biblical teaching of baptism, not on man-made doctrine.

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fdaray

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Re: Discussion On Baptism
« Reply #6 on: August 10, 2009, 08:45:43 AM »

             Jesus Christ baptism at Jordan river.

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Re: Discussion On Baptism
« Reply #7 on: August 10, 2009, 09:21:55 AM »
The Baptists think that infant baptism is not enough and insist that profession of faith--which infants cannot accomplish--is a prerequisite to real baptism.

Anyhow, here's a doddered Protestant joke:

A Catholic, an Episcopalian, an Agnostic and a Baptist are sitting down to a baked trout for dinner.

The Catholic cuts the head third of the fish and puts it on his plate saying: "The Pope is the head of the Church".

The Episcopalian cuts the middle third and puts it on his plate saying: "The truth lies between two extremes."

The Agnostic takes the tail third and puts it on his plate saying: "Only in the end shall we know the truth."

The Baptist looks at the empty dish, picks up the bowl of melted butter and slaps it over the heads of the other three, saying: "I baptize you all!"

;D

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fdaray

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Re: Discussion On Baptism
« Reply #8 on: August 10, 2009, 09:44:13 AM »


The Baptist illustrated the unbiblical teaching of baptism.

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Lorenzo

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Re: Discussion On Baptism
« Reply #9 on: August 10, 2009, 11:39:05 AM »
I am happy to see and read the healthy discourse in this thread, amongst Christian brothers on the topic of baptism.

For verily I say unto you, brothers and sisters IN CHRIST, that the Holy Spirit has brought you to this thread to discuss and partake of TRUTH.

Keep up the faith.

:)

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Lorenzo

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Re: Discussion On Baptism
« Reply #10 on: August 10, 2009, 12:06:41 PM »
Baptism is Indeed Biblical and has been an essential aspect in Christian Theology and Profession of Faith. It is essential into the Catechism of Catholica Doctrina Apostolicum.
From which, would come forth many Christian churches.

The Holy Roman Catholic Church resounds its authority to Scriptural and Church Doctrinal Authority. It has remained so since AD 33.

Instructions given to the apostles:

Mark 16:16 He who believes and is baptized will be saved; but he who does not believe will be condemned.

Q: Who made the statement in Mark 16:16?

Q: Who will be saved?

Q: Does salvation come before or after baptism?


Matt. 28:19 Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit.

Q: How are disciples made?

Examples of conversion:


Acts 2:36 “Let all the house of Israel know assuredly that God has made this Jesus, whom you crucified, both Lord and Christ.” 37 Now when they heard this, they were cut to the heart, and said to Peter and the rest of the apostles, “Men and brethren, what shall we do?” 38 Peter said to them, “Repent, and let every one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. . . . 40 And with many other words he testified and exhorted them, saying, “Be saved from this perverse generation.” 41 Then those who gladly received his word were baptized; and that day about three thousand souls were added to them.

Q: How is the people's belief described in verse 37?

Q: What were those believers told to do “for the remission of sins”?

Q: When Peter exhorted them to “be saved” (verse 40), what did they do (verse 41)?

Acts 8:35 Philip opened his mouth, and beginning at this Scripture, preached Jesus to him. 36 Now as they went down the road, they came to some water. And the eunuch said, “See, here is water. What hinders me from being baptized?” 37 Then Philip said, “If you believe with all your heart, you may.” And he answered and said, “I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God.” 38 So he commanded the chariot to stand still. And both Philip and the eunuch went down into the water, and he baptized him.



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Lorenzo

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Re: Discussion On Baptism
« Reply #11 on: August 10, 2009, 12:13:27 PM »
Baptism is a three-tiered aspect within the Holy Roman Catholic Church, brothers and sisters.

As children we are baptized and are saved from ORIGINAL SIN. The Holy spirit comes down and is instilled within the soul of the Child.

And at the age of 12, after attending Divine Instruction into the Sacramental Oaths and the Adoration of the BLESSED EUCHARIST, we are given Holy Communion with Christ.
To recieve HIS most precious body and blood.

And later in life, at age 14 or older or when you are ready to receive CHRIST again, one recieves HIM in Confirmation.

To confirm your belief. To confirm your faith. To confirm your rejection of the devil and your ACCEPTANCE of the HOLY SPIRIT who proceeds from the FATHER and THE SON.


Amen. Brothers and Sisters.
:)

May the Peace and Love of Our Lord Jesus Christ,
The Author of Salvation,
always be with us, to CONFIRM us and JUSTIIFY us.

In JESUS' name.
Amen.

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