Author Topic: Do you think Sabah will ever be returned to the Philippines? (Read 3731 times)

Lorenzo · « **on:** June 08, 2010, 11:25:20 PM »

Sabah is historically part of Sulu, but is now being illegally occupied by the Federated States of Malaysia.

Do you think Sabah will be returned to the Sultanate of Sulu, which is part of the Republic of the Philippines?

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chicogon · « **Reply #1 on:** June 09, 2010, 02:39:46 AM »

Sabah is historically part of Sulu, but is now being illegally occupied by the Federated States of Malaysia.

Do you think Sabah will be returned to the Sultanate of Sulu, which is part of the Republic of the Philippines?

I don't know the real history of Sabah. Personally we should leave it alone. It belongs to where it belongs now.

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greenmachine · « **Reply #2 on:** June 12, 2010, 10:33:56 PM »

will take sabah by force!!! will envade sabah!!! and thats it! its the only way!!! can our AFP do it with our low tech armed forces weapons and firepower? hehehE!! technically wise, we are capable! the only way to modernized our armed forces is to go into war!!

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greenmachine · « **Reply #3 on:** June 12, 2010, 10:38:52 PM »

check this out www.globalfirepower.com
we are rank 31st in the world on war capabilities

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Lorenzo · « **Reply #4 on:** June 19, 2010, 04:46:46 AM »

Thank you for your point of view, Greenmachines.

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ms da binsi · « **Reply #5 on:** June 19, 2010, 04:54:45 AM »

How can we take it back??? wa man gani nato mabawi ang Spratleys!!! i would be happier if our islands will be taken by the different countries. I hope they will take Mindanao too.

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Lorenzo · « **Reply #6 on:** June 19, 2010, 05:05:50 AM »

The situation regarding the Spratleys is quite tense and sensitive since the shoals around the Spratleys are claimed not only by the Philippines, but by China, Malaysia, Singapore, Indonesia and Vietnam. The Philippines does claim administrative control of the larger islands such as the Kalayaan Group, and maintains a town and a military district in Philippine-controlled Kalayaan Islands.

The Chinese and Vietnamese claim the shoals and smaller islets that are of no value besides territorial jurisdictional purposes. The Chinese know they cannot touch the Philippine-administered islands, because an attack on the Philippines will result in an American response, upholding its 60 year strategic alliance with the Philippines.

Sabah is an interesting issue because the Government of Malaysia, to this day, continues to pay rent to the Sultanate of Sulu for possession of Sabah.

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ms da binsi · « **Reply #7 on:** June 19, 2010, 05:12:28 AM »

Sabah was never been ours, since.

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Lorenzo · « **Reply #8 on:** June 19, 2010, 05:16:41 AM »

check this out www.globalfirepower.com
we are rank 31st in the world on war capabilities

Greenmachines,

I believe that a war with Malaysia to reclaim Sabah, at this time, is inopportune and would be beyond Philippines abilities. We have to deal with the growing islamofascism in southern Mindanao, as well as quelling the NPA movement in the north. If the Philippines does wish to reclaim Sabah in the future, it will have to stabilize Mindanao and would need to strengthen its military. As of now, the Philippine Air Force is defunct and our F-5 Tigers are mothballed; the planes that are used for military purposes are propeller planes and American Bronco Attack Fighters.

The Philippines would need modern aircraft, a larger navy, double its land infantry force to at least 200,000 strong (not including paramilitary and auxiliary units). One has to understand that Malaysia is bordered with Indonesia and any Philippine military movement in the south might awaken an Indonesian military response. The Indonesia Armed Forces is the largest in South East Asia, and with a bloody record in dealing with regional disturbances (esp. in its experiences in suppressing pro-revolutionary forces in Irian Jaya).

The Philippines would have to provide a division or two (three would be optimum) ready to deal with an Indonesia military intervention. The Philippines would have to not only blockade Sabah's ports, but drive the Malaysian Army out of Sabah and into Sarawak; and secure the rich oil fiends in Sabah and deprive the Malaysians from cutting resources.

If Indonesia sends the TNI (Tentara Nasional Indonesiya) --the Indonesia Armed Forces to the border, and begins hostile tactics (as it did to Malaysia during Sukarno's "Crush Malaysia Campaign" in 1962) then the Philippines would be forced to make a pre-emptive attack on all Indonesian land units and implement air-supremacy acquisition. And hope that Indonesia will back out, and thus force Malaysia to sue for peace.

There are so many asymmetrical factors that can happen as a result of this. The Philippines would need to be ready to bolster its military for any situation.

One has to understand that any acts of aggression would alienate the Philippines in the world theater, and would strain its relations with Washington. Additionally, it would isolate it from the ASEAN member states. These are all things to consider.

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ms da binsi · « **Reply #9 on:** June 19, 2010, 05:17:50 AM »

no war will happen because Sabah has never been ours.

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Lorenzo · « **Reply #10 on:** June 19, 2010, 05:19:45 AM »

Sabah was never been ours, since.

Sabah is historically part of the Sultanate of Sulu. The Sulu Archipelago and the Sultanate of Sulu is part of the Republic of the Philippines. The Philippine Territorial Claim includes all lands that belong to the Philippines , and historical if need be.

The Philippines has not relinquished its claim to Sabah.

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Lorenzo · « **Reply #11 on:** June 19, 2010, 05:30:54 AM »

check this out www.globalfirepower.com
we are rank 31st in the world on war capabilities

This is a good website, Greens.

Dealing with Malaysia is something that the Philippines can tackle, however, I will remind you that Indonesia is a great and powerful country to our southern gate. Indonesia's population is over 240 million (it is almost 3 times the size of Philippines' population) and its armed forces is greater and larger than the Philippines', and Malaysia's combined.

One has to understand within Indonesia is their version of Manifest Destiny or in their lingua franca, "Jaya Indonesia" (Greater Indonesia). Indonesia is a giant in the south, and if ever it unleashed its military on Malaysia or the Philippines, would lead to the disintegration of ASEAN as well as lead to Total War in the region.

The Philippines has to be very wary in that they do not instigate a military response from Indonesia.

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Brownman · « **Reply #12 on:** June 19, 2010, 06:13:03 AM »

As i understand Sabah island was used to be the quarentine station for labourers coming from China and the Philipines during WW2 and because of it's attraction the countries like Malaysia, China, Borneo to include the Philippines were interested to be a part of the 5 hectare area. Some historian claims that the royal sultanate of Sulo and north Borneo kingdom was the owner since 1878.

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fdaray · « **Reply #13 on:** June 19, 2010, 08:01:01 AM »

Sabah was never been ours, since.

Yes....., an impossible dream to be added to the Philippines, a land never been ours since.

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Lorenzo · « **Reply #14 on:** June 19, 2010, 08:56:46 AM »

As i understand Sabah island was used to be the quarentine station for labourers coming from China and the Philipines during WW2 and because of it's attraction the countries like Malaysia, China, Borneo to include the Philippines were interested to be a part of the 5 hectare area. Some historian claims that the royal sultanate of Sulo and north Borneo kingdom was the owner since 1878.

I never knew about the Sulu issue till a couple of years back; thanks for your added information, Brown.

The Sultan of Sulu is Mohammed Fuad Abdulla Kiram I,
Sultan of Sulu and Sultan of Sabah.

The Official Website of the Sultan of Sulu:
http://www.royalsulu.com/

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Lorenzo · « **Reply #15 on:** June 19, 2010, 08:58:42 AM »

This Transfer of Sovereignty of 12 September 1962, from the Sultanate of Sulu to the Republic of the Philippines conferred ownership of Sovereignty to the Philippines, and it also continued to enshrine the ownership of Sabah as the private property of the heirs of HM Sultan Jamalul Kiram II. However, the current Sultan, HM Sultan Muhammad Fuad Abdulla Kiram I, as the true and legitimate Sultan stated that "Sabah is not only the property of the heirs but all of the people of the Sultanate of Sulu -- who are entitled to receive benefits from the Sabah property recovery thru economic developments in the Sultanate."

Source:
http://www.royalsulu.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=12&Itemid=12

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ms da binsi · « **Reply #16 on:** June 19, 2010, 11:08:49 AM »

This Transfer of Sovereignty of 12 September 1962, from the Sultanate of Sulu to the Republic of the Philippines conferred ownership of Sovereignty to the Philippines, and it also continued to enshrine the ownership of Sabah as the private property of the heirs of HM Sultan Jamalul Kiram II. However, the current Sultan, HM Sultan Muhammad Fuad Abdulla Kiram I, as the true and legitimate Sultan stated that "Sabah is not only the property of the heirs but all of the people of the Sultanate of Sulu -- who are entitled to receive benefits from the Sabah property recovery thru economic developments in the Sultanate."

Source:
http://www.royalsulu.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=12&Itemid=12

i dont know how reliable this website is. i would believe it when i will see the original documents from Malacanang with signature and seal.

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greenmachine · « **Reply #17 on:** June 20, 2010, 10:00:54 PM »

your are correct lorenzo, but i still believe that the philippines will be a regional power, but before that, we must first resolve our economic, insurgency and internal security problems. Yes, at this time we are not capable of waging war against our mighty neighbors. Our neighbors were already building up and modernizing their armed forces, yet we still remain the weakest military in the region, thats one of the reasons why nations keep on bullying us. AFP modernization is a must! we are on the bottom in military spending, just a small amount of our budget goes to defense. Our defense must be atleast capable of sinking fleets of ships in the celebes before they can reach philippines, at least interceps war planes heading their way to our airspace. We got the mineral resources, we got the best manpower, we got the brains, we got the courage. In due time, i hope will be a great nation. Because Rich Countries are pushing little nations with their fully automatics, they like to push the weak around. If we are not doing this, time might come that we become the jews in hitlers holocust.

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Lorenzo · « **Reply #18 on:** June 21, 2010, 02:50:45 PM »

your are correct lorenzo, but i still believe that the philippines will be a regional power, but before that, we must first resolve our economic, insurgency and internal security problems. Yes, at this time we are not capable of waging war against our mighty neighbors. Our neighbors were already building up and modernizing their armed forces, yet we still remain the weakest military in the region, thats one of the reasons why nations keep on bullying us. AFP modernization is a must! we are on the bottom in military spending, just a small amount of our budget goes to defense. Our defense must be atleast capable of sinking fleets of ships in the celebes before they can reach philippines, at least interceps war planes heading their way to our airspace. We got the mineral resources, we got the best manpower, we got the brains, we got the courage. In due time, i hope will be a great nation. Because Rich Countries are pushing little nations with their fully automatics, they like to push the weak around. If we are not doing this, time might come that we become the jews in hitlers holocust.

I am glad to see that we have a nationalist amongst us.

It is good to see and read posts such as yours that has the spirit of Filipino Nationality. I agree with you Greenmachine that the Philippines has to modernize its Armed Forces if it expects to secure its vast maritime boundaries , let alone to secure the vast fleet of merchant ships that traverses our waters , let alone combat the piracy activity in our nation's southern waters. I am optimistic that in time and with the right allocation of funds and administrative oversight, the branches of the Armed Forces of the Philippines can become a competitive fighting arm not only to secure our nation's interest, but to also champion the Filipino cause abroad.

As a nation of 90+ million and growing, it is ever important for the Republic of the Philippines to maintain control of its borders--this includes land, sea, islets--everything. This includes not only the current territories under our jurisdiction but also to champion our historical claims in Sabah. The reason why this is such a concern for Filipinos is because there are over 1 Million Filipinos living in Sabah as migratory workers and some there that are residents. The injustices done and committed to them by the Malaysians have been noticeable , considering that the Malaysian government has no historical basis to control Sabah besides the British government handing it over to them, when in actuality, Peninsular malaysia and Johor has had no links to Sabah. Sabah has been an integral part of the Sultanate of Sulu for centuries, and that Sultanate is part of the Republic of the Philippines.

Modernization is necessary and a must for our Armed Forces. The Philippines has a future to become a great nation. Let us hope for a more effective, responsible, and strong Military.

Regards.

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Lorenzo · « **Reply #19 on:** June 21, 2010, 02:58:38 PM »

your are correct lorenzo, but i still believe that the philippines will be a regional power, but before that, we must first resolve our economic, insurgency and internal security problems. Yes, at this time we are not capable of waging war against our mighty neighbors. Our neighbors were already building up and modernizing their armed forces, yet we still remain the weakest military in the region, thats one of the reasons why nations keep on bullying us. AFP modernization is a must! we are on the bottom in military spending, just a small amount of our budget goes to defense. Our defense must be atleast capable of sinking fleets of ships in the celebes before they can reach philippines, at least interceps war planes heading their way to our airspace. We got the mineral resources, we got the best manpower, we got the brains, we got the courage. In due time, i hope will be a great nation. Because Rich Countries are pushing little nations with their fully automatics, they like to push the weak around. If we are not doing this, time might come that we become the jews in hitlers holocust.

Believe it or not, the Philippines has the beginnings of an effective Fast-Attack Fleet. Considering our national predisposition as an Archipelago , it is not ideal for us to develop a large blue-water navy , but more so a brown-water fleet. The Philippines already has fleets of fast attack ships and patrol ships, we recently acquired an American Cyclone-Class Missile patrol ship in 2004 , and there are plans for more acquisition. Ideal for the Philippines is the acquisition of 3-4 more frigates , 4-5 more missile corvettes and 10-15 more missile patrol ships. We need a rapid-deploy naval fleet that can meet the threat in our northern, southern, eastern, and western waters within hours of identification from our air national guard.

A rapid attack force of this caliber would allow us to bleed any invading naval fleet by attack and run tactics and leave them to bleed in our waters due to their distance from their home ports. Due to our republic's naval waters, a fast-attack fleet is ideal for flanking maneuvers and quick retreats for contingency situations.

We must enforce and upgrade our air wing. The infrastructure is there, our bases are well developed, all we need is the acquisition of more 4th generation winged fighters. Our ASEAN colleagues have F-16 in their hangars, yet we do not. Nations such as Thailand have F-16s yet we do not. Nations such as Vietnam have Soviet Sukhoi -27 fighters yet we do not have this. We are stuck with 1960's F-5 Tiger fighters , which are severely outdated. Modernization is a must.

A navy can only do so much when its air contingent is ineffective.

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greenmachine · « **Reply #20 on:** June 22, 2010, 08:42:37 PM »

we can modernise the army first because we are involve in an insurgency conflict then the navy because we are an archipelago ... then air force

1) improve intel like stationary radars scattered around the islands and naval lookouts
2) buy radar ships which can also be use for weather forcasting
3) buy ships like corvettes good for a coastal navy only but missile / torpedo firing, Fast attack crafts also that are armed with misslles are good for naval defense.
4) search and rescue ships, to double as hospital ships
5) transport ships since we are archipelago , we need to transport soldiers where they are needed

effective for military, civil defense and disaster

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greenmachine · « **Reply #21 on:** June 22, 2010, 08:43:23 PM »

and of course, Make CHED reinstall the ROTC training for all male and female students not only to instill patriotism among the young but to condition and keep these young bodies at tip top physical condition;

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islander · « **Reply #22 on:** June 22, 2010, 10:27:35 PM »

do i think sabah will ever be returned to the philippines? i don't think so.

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