Author Topic: More Chinese ships arrive at Scarborough Shoal  (Read 3760 times)

islander

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More Chinese ships arrive at Scarborough Shoal
« on: May 03, 2012, 10:07:48 AM »
More Chinese ships arrive at Scarborough Shoal

ABS-CBNnews.com
05/03/2012

MANILA, Philippines - There's still no end in sight to the Scarborough Shoal standoff, as more Chinese boats have arrived at the disputed territory.

There are now 14 Chinese vessels in the area, which is located just 124 nautical miles off Zambales, according to Armed Forces Northern Luzon Command spokesman Capt. Aurello Kigis.

He said the foreign ships include 3 maritime surveillance ships and a fisheries law enforcement command vessel.

The Philippines has deployed the Coast Guard's BRP Edsa Dos and a ship from the Bureau of Fisheries and Aquatic Resources to the area.

There were 6 other Filipino fishing vessels in the area last Sunday, but it is not known how many have remained as of Wednesday.

Kigis said the Armed Forces of the Philippines continues to monitor the area to protect the Philippines' territorial integrity.

He declined to comment on the rising number of Chinese ships at the shoal, which is locally known as Panatag.

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Re: More Chinese ships arrive at Scarborough Shoal
« Reply #1 on: May 03, 2012, 10:08:54 AM »
May 11 protests

Meanwhile, a Filipino-American leader is urging Filipinos worldwide to join next week's protests against China.
   
For the group US Pinoys for Good Governance, now is the time to stand up to what it calls as China's bullying at Scarborough Shoal.

"I'm calling on the global Pinoys who are concerned about this intrusion of China and who are singing the national anthem, 'Sa manlulupig, di ka pasisiil', let's stand up and show up on Friday, May 11," said the group's leader, Loida Nicolas Lewis.

Filipinos in the US, Canada, Australia, Hong Kong, and other countries are expected to launch protests in front of Chinese embassies and consulates, Lewis told ANC on Wednesday.

"The international family of nations should see that this big wannabe worldpower China, is not following international law," she said.

Lewis will lead the protests in New York.

In Manila, the rallies will be spearheaded by partylist group Akbayan.

At the Foreign Affairs Department, officials asserted that the Philippine will stand its ground at Scarborough Shoal.

While the US refuses to take sides in the territorial dispute, the DFA said Manila's key ally will not tolerate the use of force and that it shares the Philippine position that the standoff must be resolved legally and peacefully.

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Re: More Chinese ships arrive at Scarborough Shoal
« Reply #2 on: May 03, 2012, 10:10:46 AM »
'Hacker wars' continue

The Scarborough standoff has spawned tit-for-tat Internet attacks by hackers from the 2 countries.

This week, alleged hackers from China tried to bring down the websites of the Department of Science and Technology (DOST) and other Philippine government agencies through distributed denial-of-service attacks (DDOS).

DOST Information and Communications Technology Office (ICTO) executive director Louis Casambre said they noticed a sudden surge in the server web traffic in several government websites early Monday morning and Tuesday night.

He said the incidents show an "intent to overwhelm" Philippine government websites' servers.

Meanwhile, hackers from the Philippines are retaliating by defacing Chinese websites.

Members of hackers groups such as "PrivateX," "Anonymous #OccupyPhilippines" and "Anonymous Butuan" have left messages on Chinese websites.

"You may continue bullying our country's waters but we will not tolerate you from intimidating our own cyber shores. Those defacements are just a mere response to what you have initially started. We are not trying to start anything. We are just trying to tell you that we do not want to be bullied in our own cyberspace too," one message said.

The DOST has urged Filipino hackers to stop their attacks.

Casambre added that the DOST cannot do anything yet and China has not made an official request for help from the Philippine government to stop the attacks on Chinese websites. - with reports from Jing Castañeda and Pia Gutierrez, ABS-CBN News; ANC

http://www.abs-cbnnews.com/

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Re: More Chinese ships arrive at Scarborough Shoal
« Reply #3 on: May 03, 2012, 10:27:22 AM »
Scarborough Shoal is very near Luzon. China's next move is to invade the Philippines. Where are the arrogant Filipino senators who kicked out the US Military Base?

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Re: More Chinese ships arrive at Scarborough Shoal
« Reply #4 on: May 03, 2012, 10:53:25 AM »
the Magnificent 12 (or the Dirty Dozen for those who believed "they are out of touch with the rest of the country"):

Former senators Agapito Aquino, Sotero Laurel II, Ernesto Maceda Jr., Orlando Mercado, Aquilino Pimentel Jr., Rene Saguisag, Jovito Salonga, Wigberto Tanada, and Victor Ziga; current Senate President Juan Ponce Enrile, former President Joseph Estrada, and former Vice President Teofisto Guingona III.

obviously, only octogenarian senate president juan ponce enrile is still in the senate.

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Re: More Chinese ships arrive at Scarborough Shoal
« Reply #5 on: May 03, 2012, 11:03:31 AM »
why the Magnificent 12 voted against the continuation of the US military presence in the country:

1) The anti-bases movement had been agitating to close down the bases over fears that the US was keeping nuclear weapons in its bases in defiance of the Philippine Constitution.

2) Activists had also been protesting against the basis because it supported militarization of the Philippines and American gunboat diplomacy in Asia.

3) Prostitution and other vices that the bases brought.

[These reasons] had people stand in front of the old Senate building to pressure the senators [to close down the bases on Philippine soil on September 16, 1991], according to Ma. Socorro Diokno of the Jose W. Diokno Foundation.

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Re: More Chinese ships arrive at Scarborough Shoal
« Reply #6 on: May 03, 2012, 11:16:09 AM »
what they said after 20 years:

Senate President Juan Ponce Enrile: "...the decision struck a blow for national sovereignty."  "We collectively echoed the sentiment of the Filipino people to unshackle themselves."

Former President Joseph Ejercito Estrada: "Our finest hour."

Former senator Victor Ziga: "One of my proudest moments because the Senate had been able to resist fancy rhetoric and cheap propaganda."

Former senator Agapito Aquino: "Each of the 12 senators who voted against the treaty, paid a heavy price. Now called the Magnificent 12, they were derided then as the Dirty Dozen and accused of being out of touch with the rest of the country."  (On why he had to go against Malacanang, which had been pushing for ratification): "I love my country more than I love my President."

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Re: More Chinese ships arrive at Scarborough Shoal
« Reply #7 on: May 03, 2012, 11:27:29 AM »
Former senator Aquilino Pimentel Jr.: "Go ahead. Do your worst and we shall do our best."  (He had said then that he voted against the bill even though it would have left the Philippines weaker militarily.)

Former senator Wigberto Tanada:  [The treaty had to be junked because] "national freedom cannot be postponed and the dignity and honor of the Filipino people cannot continue to be trampled."

Former senator Orlando Mercado, who served as Defense secretary under Estrada:  "Today, we have only ourselves to blame and to praise."

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Re: More Chinese ships arrive at Scarborough Shoal
« Reply #8 on: May 03, 2012, 11:33:39 AM »
What boggles my mind is the fact that the Legislative Body of the Philippines was unable to properly modernize the Armed Forces of the Philippines. Why is it that a nation of some 95 million people with a GNP of over $370 Billion is incapable of properly modernizing the Air Force, Navy, and Army?

Now, in this present circumstance the Republic is in, we are, militarily speaking, incapable of defending the nation in case of an armed invasion. The meager forces in the Armed Forces is , presently, incapable of properly completing its task on territorial defense.

Let's take a look at the status of the Armed Forces, okay? The Philippine Army is only 80,000 man strong. During the time of Marcos, the Army was over 250,000 man strong. How is the Philippine Army capable of defending the nation of some 95 million people when its current strength is only 80,000 man strong? It should be at LEAST 500,000 man strong ! The Kingdom of Thailand has an Army of some 750,000 strong (and note that Thailand's population is 66 million (some 30 million less than the Philippines!).

The Philippine Air Force does not even have a fighter aircraft, there is no tactical air wing. The Philippines mothballed its last units of F-5 fighter planes back in 2005. And for 7 years now, we still have yet to have a fighter air craft that can protect the air. If China wanted to, if she sent tactical bombers to bomb Manila, Cebu, Iloilo, Davao etc, it would take air superiority and control Philippine Air Space.

The rampant corruption in government is the sole reason for the inability of the Philippines to modernize its military.




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Re: More Chinese ships arrive at Scarborough Shoal
« Reply #9 on: May 03, 2012, 11:36:21 AM »
that day of september 16, 1991:

TWO things are certain about September 16, 1991--the day the Senate voted to close down US bases on Philippine soil: it rained heavily and the vote, for good or ill, changed the country's destiny.

Political activist Renato Constantino Jr., who was at Liwasang Bonifacio on that day, said the government brought a crowd of "more than 100,000" to pressure the Senate to ratify the extension of the RP-US Bases Treaty.

"But the rain chased them away. They melted away," he said at a lunch commemorating the historic vote. While this was happening, he said, the crowd picketing against the treaty swelled to around 40,000.

He said that he met a mother and her daughter there, drenched in the rain but with warm smiles. "They were not there with any mass organization, they just wanted the bases out," he said.

-excerpts and data from "Senators remember day when they rejected US bases treaty" by Jonathan de Santos, Friday, September 16, 2011, http://www.sunstar.com.ph/

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Lorenzo

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Re: More Chinese ships arrive at Scarborough Shoal
« Reply #10 on: May 03, 2012, 11:37:59 AM »
What can the Philippines do in case China attacks the Philippines? Honestly, what can the country do? What if America does not honor its Mutual Defense Treaty with the Philippines? What then, will the Philippines do?



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Re: More Chinese ships arrive at Scarborough Shoal
« Reply #11 on: May 03, 2012, 11:39:52 AM »
If China and Philippines have a full armed conflict, do you think that the Chinese will encourage rebellious groups such as the NPA, MILF, MNLF to engage the Philippine Armed Forces?



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Re: More Chinese ships arrive at Scarborough Shoal
« Reply #12 on: May 03, 2012, 11:42:58 AM »
If China wanted to, if she sent tactical bombers to bomb Manila, Cebu, Iloilo, Davao etc, it would take air superiority and control Philippine Air Space.

it won't.  like any other nation with enough patriotic pride, it wouldn't want to be ridiculous.  what they're having now is plain bluster (like a dog barking; barking dogs don't bite).  besides, should the ridiculous happen (the barking dog would accidentally bite), imagine all the nations that could be dragged into it.  no, china is not that stupid.  it may be stupid, but not that stupid.   

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Re: More Chinese ships arrive at Scarborough Shoal
« Reply #13 on: May 03, 2012, 11:46:17 AM »
If China and Philippines have a full armed conflict, do you think that the Chinese will encourage rebellious groups such as the NPA, MILF, MNLF to engage the Philippine Armed Forces?

at their own peril.  they may end up courting armed rebellion against the politburo.  how about... 'today the philippine government, tomorrow the chinese government' for these armed rebels? ;D

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Re: More Chinese ships arrive at Scarborough Shoal
« Reply #14 on: May 03, 2012, 11:55:12 AM »
it won't.  like any other nation with enough patriotic pride, it wouldn't want to be ridiculous.  what they're having now is plain bluster (like a dog barking; barking dogs don't bite).  besides, should the ridiculous happen (the barking dog would accidentally bite), imagine all the nations that could be dragged into it.  no, china is not that stupid.  it may be stupid, but not that stupid.   

I just hope and pray that diplomacy wins the day, isles, because it is quite intimidating that such a mighty power like China is trying to bully a weaker country like the Philippines. We have never even had a war with them before, and now they are antagonizing the situation with their naval surveillance ships.

I actually visited the Chinese defense forum called "Sino Defense Forum", and it is quite disgusting what some of them are saying. Some of them are calling for China to launch nuclear strikes on Manila. How absurd and also scary.



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Re: More Chinese ships arrive at Scarborough Shoal
« Reply #15 on: May 03, 2012, 11:57:43 AM »
at their own peril.  they may end up courting armed rebellion against the politburo.  how about... 'today the philippine government, tomorrow the chinese government' for these armed rebels? ;D

You have a good point. I just remain cautious because I've read on the history of the Chinese Government's repressive stance on ethnic groups in China. They are actually quite racist and repressive to the ethnic Tibetans who live in Tibet and the Uighur people who live in China's western most province of Xinjiang.

Their government has a horrendous human rights record, even unto their own people. Imagine how they would be like towards people in a different country in case of a war...

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islander

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Re: More Chinese ships arrive at Scarborough Shoal
« Reply #16 on: May 03, 2012, 12:40:01 PM »
it has rubbed too many neighbors the wrong way that contemplating such attacks may be beyond it at the moment.  the blustery statements in different forums are nothing unless they are official statements.  we can even make our own blustery statements to match theirs right here in tb (till banning do us fart, eeekkk).

meanwhile, it's interesting to go through the diplomatic language of the official statements on what were bilaterally concluded during the recent 2+2 meeting in the u.s. (del rosario and gazmin + clinton and panetta).  those statements are to be expected. 

these things i find interesting because language couched in diplomatese may carry veiled threats between the lines.  'won't take sides but the mutual defense treaty is respected; smooth international navigation in the area, etc.'  it looks like in international relations, calling a spade a heart is the name of the game.     

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Re: More Chinese ships arrive at Scarborough Shoal
« Reply #17 on: May 03, 2012, 12:49:01 PM »
on diplomatese:

DIPLOMATS, LIKE all practitioners of a specialized craft, have their own parlance, and in diplomacy, as elsewhere, things are not always what they seem.

***

The occasion was the bicentennial of the Treaty of Paris, when Sir Brian Urquhart, the United Nations' peacekeeper extraordinaire, gave an address at the Smithsonian Institution.

In a list of ''some don'ts for workers for peace,'' he cited this: ''Don't dive into an empty pool. This may create a temporary sensation, but it will leave you stunned and incapable of further action. It is equally inadvisable to dive into a pool of boiling water.''

-excerpts from ON LANGUAGE; Diplomatese, by Alvaro de Soto, a Peruvian career diplomat, who was executive assistant to Javier Perez de Cuellar, Secretary General of the United Nations; September 10, 1989, The New York Times, http://www.nytimes.com/

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Re: More Chinese ships arrive at Scarborough Shoal
« Reply #18 on: May 03, 2012, 12:50:54 PM »
thus must china not dive into a pool of boiling water, or an empty pool like the philippines for that matter.

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Re: More Chinese ships arrive at Scarborough Shoal
« Reply #19 on: May 03, 2012, 01:17:53 PM »
Lisud ug giyerahon ning Manila. Implaw! Pero I am on the side na mag escalate ni into armed conflict pero localied ra didto sa Scarborough Shoal, just like what the Chinese did to the Vietnamese.

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Re: More Chinese ships arrive at Scarborough Shoal
« Reply #20 on: May 03, 2012, 02:09:06 PM »
the philippines won't allow it because the shoal is within our EEZ, the international community won't allow it because no single country should exercise full control of the second most used sea lane in the world, which is what china may be up to with its 9-dash claim.  a localized armed conflict could mean china ending up fully controlling the area.  the international community will see to it that it won't happen.  well, even the biggest and strongest of school bullies would need some friends.

as for vietnam, it's not for nothing that it has the distinction of being the only country that defeated the u.s. in a war.

"Vietnam is no pushover. It may not have much of a navy, but it has repeatedly demonstrated that it isn't afraid of China. To show Beijing that it is prepared for a fight, Hanoi has ordered six Kilo-class Russian submarines (which will enter service in a few years)," Pei said. Hanoi has also dramatically enhanced its ties with the United States to ensure its security. (http://www.wantchinatimes.com/

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Re: More Chinese ships arrive at Scarborough Shoal
« Reply #21 on: May 03, 2012, 02:24:35 PM »
the philippines won't allow it because the shoal is within our EEZ, the international community won't allow it because no single country should exercise full control of the second most used sea lane in the world, which is what china may be up to with its 9-dash claim.  a localized armed conflict could mean china ending up fully controlling the area.  the international community will see to it that it won't happen.  well, even the biggest and strongest of school bullies would need some friends.

as for vietnam, it's not for nothing that it has the distinction of being the only country that defeated the u.s. in a war.

"Vietnam is no pushover. It may not have much of a navy, but it has repeatedly demonstrated that it isn't afraid of China. To show Beijing that it is prepared for a fight, Hanoi has ordered six Kilo-class Russian submarines (which will enter service in a few years)," Pei said. Hanoi has also dramatically enhanced its ties with the United States to ensure its security. (http://www.wantchinatimes.com/

Good to hear this. Hinoon, kung unahan pud ganing ta sa China mahimo jud ning dakong giyera kay daghang mag dapigay. Ang problema ug maakip ang mga mainland cities like Manila and Beijing.

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Lorenzo

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Re: More Chinese ships arrive at Scarborough Shoal
« Reply #22 on: May 04, 2012, 01:01:19 PM »
Good to hear this. Hinoon, kung unahan pud ganing ta sa China mahimo jud ning dakong giyera kay daghang mag dapigay. Ang problema ug maakip ang mga mainland cities like Manila and Beijing.

Vince and Isles,

Tinuod ning gi suwat ni Isles, the West Philippine Sea/ South China Sea is a major shipping route, and over $5 TRILLION of American Trade traverses through these waters, the United States Navy will not allow a single power to try to take advantage of this situation by exercising full control of the said sea.

With President Obama's recent strategici 'pivot' of the United States Armed Forces to the Asia-Pacific Theater, the United States is following the development in the South China Sea. The recent Balikatan 2012 Military Exercise reiterated the Philippine-American military alliance.

China would not dare launch an attack on the Philippines and expect the People's Liberation Army Navy (PLAN) to survive. The United States Navy's 7th and 3rd Fleet and Carrier Battle Groups are within the Western Pacific. If China initiates a naval conflict with the Philippine Navy, The 3rd and 7th USN Fleets will send China's naval fleet to the bottom of the sea.




A Carrier Battle Group of the United States Navy's 7th Fleet, of the United States Navy Pacific Command.



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Lorenzo

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Re: More Chinese ships arrive at Scarborough Shoal
« Reply #23 on: May 04, 2012, 01:13:21 PM »
What is really sad is that China flushed its promise of a "Peaceful Rise". With the recent naval provocation with the Philippines, and with quarrels with Vietnam as well as South Kore, Japan, and India on territorial issues, Beijing has dug itself in a defensive situation. Her blatant military provocation has taken the attention of the United States , and because China was unable or unwilling to deal with these issues diplomatically, she has negated her peaceful rise.

The countries around her are now courting United States to come back to the region and to establish American military presence in the region, to the detriment of China's territorial ambition and to her hopes of regional hegemony.

China's failure to deal with neighbors in a diplomatic manner has led the awakening of American presence in the region. Now, the United States will prioritize the pacific in her long term foreign political strategy. It will be American geopolitical strategy to contain China.

The United States has already forged better relations with India, a potential ally, and now has developed better and increased military relations with Thailand, Malaysia, Singapore, Philippines, Taiwan, South Korea and Japan.

If China will not change its foreign policy strategy, she will be contained. To the detriment of Chinese national interest, and to the benefit of American geopolitics.

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