Author Topic: Global warming or global cooling?  (Read 6932 times)

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Global warming or global cooling?
« on: February 26, 2008, 01:31:43 PM »
Forget global warming: Welcome to the new Ice Age
Lorne Gunter, National Post 
Published: Monday, February 25, 2008



Snow cover over North America and much of Siberia, Mongolia and China is greater than at any time since 1966.

The U.S. National Climatic Data Center (NCDC) reported that many American cities and towns suffered record cold temperatures in January and early February. According to the NCDC, the average temperature in January "was -0.3 F cooler than the 1901-2000 (20th century) average."

China is surviving its most brutal winter in a century. Temperatures in the normally balmy south were so low for so long that some middle-sized cities went days and even weeks without electricity because once power lines had toppled it was too cold or too icy to repair them.

There have been so many snow and ice storms in Ontario and Quebec in the past two months that the real estate market has felt the pinch as home buyers have stayed home rather than venturing out looking for new houses.

In just the first two weeks of February, Toronto received 70 cm of snow, smashing the record of 66.6 cm for the entire month set back in the pre-SUV, pre-Kyoto, pre-carbon footprint days of 1950.

And remember the Arctic Sea ice? The ice we were told so hysterically last fall had melted to its "lowest levels on record? Never mind that those records only date back as far as 1972 and that there is anthropological and geological evidence of much greater melts in the past.

The ice is back.

Gilles Langis, a senior forecaster with the Canadian Ice Service in Ottawa, says the Arctic winter has been so severe the ice has not only recovered, it is actually 10 to 20 cm thicker in many places than at this time last year.

OK, so one winter does not a climate make. It would be premature to claim an Ice Age is looming just because we have had one of our most brutal winters in decades.

But if environmentalists and environment reporters can run around shrieking about the manmade destruction of the natural order every time a robin shows up on Georgian Bay two weeks early, then it is at least fair game to use this winter's weather stories to wonder whether the alarmist are being a tad premature.

And it's not just anecdotal evidence that is piling up against the climate-change dogma.

According to Robert Toggweiler of the Geophysical Fluid Dynamics Laboratory at Princeton University and Joellen Russell, assistant professor of biogeochemical dynamics at the University of Arizona -- two prominent climate modellers -- the computer models that show polar ice-melt cooling the oceans, stopping the circulation of warm equatorial water to northern latitudes and triggering another Ice Age (a la the movie The Day After Tomorrow) are all wrong.

"We missed what was right in front of our eyes," says Prof. Russell. It's not ice melt but rather wind circulation that drives ocean currents northward from the tropics. Climate models until now have not properly accounted for the wind's effects on ocean circulation, so researchers have compensated by over-emphasizing the role of manmade warming on polar ice melt.

But when Profs. Toggweiler and Russell rejigged their model to include the 40-year cycle of winds away from the equator (then back towards it again), the role of ocean currents bringing warm southern waters to the north was obvious in the current Arctic warming.

Last month, Oleg Sorokhtin, a fellow of the Russian Academy of Natural Sciences, shrugged off manmade climate change as "a drop in the bucket." Showing that solar activity has entered an inactive phase, Prof. Sorokhtin advised people to "stock up on fur coats."

He is not alone. Kenneth Tapping of our own National Research Council, who oversees a giant radio telescope focused on the sun, is convinced we are in for a long period of severely cold weather if sunspot activity does not pick up soon.

The last time the sun was this inactive, Earth suffered the Little Ice Age that lasted about five centuries and ended in 1850. Crops failed through killer frosts and drought. Famine, plague and war were widespread. Harbours froze, so did rivers, and trade ceased.

It's way too early to claim the same is about to happen again, but then it's way too early for the hysteria of the global warmers, too.

source:  nationalpost.com

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Glen

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Re: Global warming or global cooling?
« Reply #1 on: February 26, 2008, 02:14:01 PM »
Grace og sa ato pani El Ninyo ma init og matugnaw El Ninyo gihapon.

Sa Alaska nag global warming kay ang mga glaciers sa mountain nagka melt na kuno.

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Re: Global warming or global cooling?
« Reply #2 on: February 26, 2008, 02:53:13 PM »
Gem, makalibog ang atong kina-iyahan pero para sigurado ta, ato na lang jud i take care atong Mother Earth.  Pohon ba maka anha ra jud ko diha'g dapit, Gem! 

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Re: Global warming or global cooling?
« Reply #3 on: February 26, 2008, 03:01:09 PM »


Is it Happening?

• Average temperatures have climbed 1.4 degrees Fahrenheit (0.8 degree Celsius) around the world since 1880, much of this in recent decades, according to NASA's Goddard Institute for Space Studies.

• The rate of warming is increasing. The 20th century's last two decades were the hottest in 400 years and possibly the warmest for several millennia, according to a number of climate studies. And the United Nations' Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC) reports that 11 of the past 12 years are among the dozen warmest since 1850.

• The Arctic is feeling the effects the most. Average temperatures in Alaska, western Canada, and eastern Russia have risen at twice the global average, according to the multinational Arctic Climate Impact Assessment report compiled between 2000 and 2004.

• Arctic ice is rapidly disappearing, and the region may have its first completely ice-free summer by 2040 or earlier. Polar bears and indigenous cultures are already suffering from the sea-ice loss.

• Glaciers and mountain snows are rapidly melting—for example, Montana's Glacier National Park now has only 27 glaciers, versus 150 in 1910. In the Northern Hemisphere, thaws also come a week earlier in spring and freezes begin a week later.

• Coral reefs, which are highly sensitive to small changes in water temperature, suffered the worst bleaching—or die-off in response to stress—ever recorded in 1998, with some areas seeing bleach rates of 70 percent. Experts expect these sorts of events to increase in frequency and intensity in the next 50 years as sea temperatures rise.

• An upsurge in the amount of extreme weather events, such as wildfires, heat waves, and strong tropical storms, is also attributed in part to climate change by some experts.

Human Responsibility?

• Industrialization, deforestation, and pollution have greatly increased atmospheric concentrations of water vapor, carbon dioxide, methane, and nitrous oxide, all greenhouse gases that help trap heat near Earth's surface.

• Humans are pouring carbon dioxide into the atmosphere much faster than plants and oceans can absorb it.

• These gases persist in the atmosphere for years, meaning that even if such emissions were eliminated today, it would not immediately stop global warming.

• Some experts point out that natural cycles in Earth's orbit can alter the planet's exposure to sunlight, which may explain the current trend. Earth has indeed experienced warming and cooling cycles roughly every hundred thousand years due to these orbital shifts, but such changes have occurred over the span of several centuries. Today's changes have taken place over the past hundred years or less.

• Other recent research has suggested that the effects of variations in the sun's output are "negligible" as a factor in warming, but other, more complicated solar mechanisms could possibly play a role.

What Will Happen?

• Sea level could rise between 7 and 23 inches (18 to 59 centimeters) by century's end, the IPCC's February 2007 report projects. Rises of just 4 inches (10 centimeters) could flood many South Seas islands and swamp large parts of Southeast Asia.

• Some hundred million people live within 3 feet (1 meter) of mean sea level, and much of the world's population is concentrated in vulnerable coastal cities. In the U.S., Louisiana and Florida are especially at risk.

• Glaciers around the world could melt, causing sea levels to rise while creating water shortages in regions dependent on runoff for fresh water.

• Strong hurricanes, droughts, heat waves, wildfires, and other natural disasters may become commonplace in many parts of the world. The growth of deserts may also cause food shortages in many places.

• More than a million species face extinction from disappearing habitat, changing ecosystems, and acidifying oceans.

• The ocean's circulation system, known as the ocean conveyor belt, could be permanently altered, causing a mini-ice age in Western Europe and other rapid changes.

• At some point in the future, warming could become uncontrollable by creating a so-called positive feedback effect. Rising temperatures could release additional greenhouse gases by unlocking methane in permafrost and undersea deposits, freeing carbon trapped in sea ice, and causing increased evaporation of water.

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Lorenzo

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Re: Global warming or global cooling?
« Reply #4 on: February 26, 2008, 03:05:34 PM »
Science has proven the existence of Global Warming, it is no longer an issue, it is fact.

It is the idiocy and foolish demeanor of bi-partisan politicians that ridiculously dare question the existence of Global Warming.

The major problem with Global Warming is that a large percentage of politicians around the globe Refuse to accept it, and or implement governmental and economic changes to alleviate the excess industrial, commercial effluents that are largely attributed to this phenomena.





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Re: Global warming or global cooling?
« Reply #5 on: February 26, 2008, 03:15:44 PM »
nahisulat na ang saad!

mao nay giingon sa akong mga katigulangan!

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Re: Global warming or global cooling?
« Reply #6 on: February 26, 2008, 03:16:19 PM »
My research thesis, which is environmental-based, examines the Nitrogen-Carbon-Sulfur; C:N ratio changes within limnoaquatic sites vis-a-vis residual core; as well as examining trace metals % presence in the prevailing limnoaquatic site, primarily presence of Cadmium, lead, zinc, arsenic, and mercury {given off in coal effluents} as a study in the effects of the Industrialization had on the research site, and a case study that symbiosizes with the macro-view of American Industrialization and effects to local biota. So far, there has been strong positive correlation vis-a-vis relative frequency data and cumulative frequency data/graphical analysis that there indeed was a peak increase of the said metal traces during the 1820-1930 time epoch, which correlates with the height of American Industrialization. The effects? Increased effluents. Which has not only been documented and recorded through core samples in the limnoaquatic bed site, but correlates that to the positive relation to the atmospheric composition and degradative effects it had on the atmosphere, which continues to this day. My research, which is primarily focused on Ecological Paleolimnology and Biogeochemistry, which is but a minor detail in the discourse of industrial effluents, proves that this problem has affected the environment even before; this 'Global Warming' phenemona is not a 'New Thing' that liberals are making up, as what most Republican Conservative would declare. No. This 'Global Warming' phenomena has been in process since the dawn of Human civilization

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Know Nothing

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Re: Global warming or global cooling?
« Reply #7 on: February 27, 2008, 07:38:09 AM »
Hello Lorenzo,

First of all the issue of whether there is global warming is not up to politicians to decide whether they are liberal or conservative.  Global warming is a science that should be left to scientists to decide whether it is happening or not.  Politicians are just implementers of policy.

Most of the global warming studies have been based on models.  What the paper you are deriding is challenging the previous global warming models.  And if I may humbly mention, it has been said by one of the most respected modelers that “All models are wrong, but some are useful” (G.E.P Box).  As far as saying that it is accepted by all scientists that global warming is happening, that is a crock!

If you have been doing research on global warming can you please give your peer-reviewed publications that we can read and then make up our minds?


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Re: Global warming or global cooling?
« Reply #8 on: February 27, 2008, 07:59:23 AM »
Do we really need someone to tell us what's happening? i think not.

Why dont we just wait til we get drowned or get roasted under the heat of the sun?

I dont even need Lorenzo's research and explanation, I myself have seen the changes, and i ccan feel it.

If you have seen places like the Grand Canyon, is that the best explanation? than thinking it as just a mere magic by the creator?

 ???

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Re: Global warming or global cooling?
« Reply #9 on: February 27, 2008, 08:15:43 AM »
Hello Lorenzo,

First of all the issue of whether there is global warming is not up to politicians to decide whether they are liberal or conservative.  Global warming is a science that should be left to scientists to decide whether it is happening or not.  Politicians are just implementers of policy.

Most of the global warming studies have been based on models.  What the paper you are deriding is challenging the previous global warming models.  And if I may humbly mention, it has been said by one of the most respected modelers that “All models are wrong, but some are useful” (G.E.P Box).  As far as saying that it is accepted by all scientists that global warming is happening, that is a crock!

If you have been doing research on global warming can you please give your peer-reviewed publications that we can read and then make up our minds?


The research paper that I am conducting, which is funded by the Pennsylvania Department of Energy and is a joint thesis paper. I have a thread on it in the Research Cooler if you want to read about it.

Additionally, perhaps you misjudged the point of my post, as it was in condemnation of Political figures of certain nations, which are responsible for the qualitative effects in response to this ecological and biogeochemical response. Perhaps you may have not noticed this, but nation states INFLUENCE global warming, in fact many nation states have directly contributed to the depravation of the stratosphere, atmosphere, ecological environment in terms of unnatural chemical increases in said environment. Politicians, hold the power to either change this course, the laws they pass can either be pro-environment or anti-environment.

A minute case study to verse you in this, is the European Industrialization during the late 18th century to the 19th century, which utilized rare natural resources (non-renewable, such as coal, which also lead to the eutrofication, as well as death to limnoaquatic sites and metals poisoning of localities), the American industrialization, the ongoing global industrialization and the lack of regulation boards in said nation states such as India and China (which are promoting this problem) as well as the United States (the largest consumer of raw natural resources).



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Know Nothing

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Re: Global warming or global cooling?
« Reply #10 on: February 27, 2008, 08:18:04 AM »
No you do not need anybody to tell you what is happening!  Anybody can personally believe what they want to believe including that the earth is flat.  The problem becomes when people start spouting ideas and scientifically unfounded hypotheses that are bound to change local, national and international policies that will divert billions and trillions of dollars to fruitless courses.  I am not against global warming per se.  I am against self centered proclamations, having no scientific basis, closed as science.

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Re: Global warming or global cooling?
« Reply #11 on: February 27, 2008, 08:21:28 AM »
I am not telling anyone, I am informing the dictation of research :)

I am not forcing you to read. However, you're reasoning is crude and extremely closed minded. So you're saying that anyone can do what they say in their closed minded and irational mind? Even your example of letting people believe the earth is flat is weak and mundane. So you would rather believe a lie than be elucidated in pure truth? Science proves and dictates what is true or not. Stubborn idiocy leads to blind nihilism and repudiacy.

:)

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Re: Global warming or global cooling?
« Reply #12 on: February 27, 2008, 08:23:44 AM »
Actually, this is a good discussion.  Let's just stay in the issue at hand.  We are learning from your points of view, guys!

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Know Nothing

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Re: Global warming or global cooling?
« Reply #13 on: February 27, 2008, 08:26:25 AM »
Hello Lorenzo,

First of all the issue of whether there is global warming is not up to politicians to decide whether they are liberal or conservative.  Global warming is a science that should be left to scientists to decide whether it is happening or not.  Politicians are just implementers of policy.

Most of the global warming studies have been based on models.  What the paper you are deriding is challenging the previous global warming models.  And if I may humbly mention, it has been said by one of the most respected modelers that “All models are wrong, but some are useful” (G.E.P Box).  As far as saying that it is accepted by all scientists that global warming is happening, that is a crock!

If you have been doing research on global warming can you please give your peer-reviewed publications that we can read and then make up our minds?


The research paper that I am conducting, which is funded by the Pennsylvania Department of Energy and is a joint thesis paper. I have a thread on it in the Research Cooler if you want to read about it.

Additionally, perhaps you misjudged the point of my post, as it was in condemnation of Political figures of certain nations, which are responsible for the qualitative effects in response to this ecological and biogeochemical response. Perhaps you may have not noticed this, but nation states INFLUENCE global warming, in fact many nation states have directly contributed to the depravation of the stratosphere, atmosphere, ecological environment in terms of unnatural chemical increases in said environment. Politicians, hold the power to either change this course, the laws they pass can either be pro-environment or anti-environment.

A minute case study to verse you in this, is the European Industrialization during the late 18th century to the 19th century, which utilized rare natural resources (non-renewable, such as coal, which also lead to the eutrofication, as well as death to limnoaquatic sites and metals poisoning of localities), the American industrialization, the ongoing global industrialization and the lack of regulation boards in said nation states such as India and China (which are promoting this problem) as well as the United States (the largest consumer of raw natural resources).

As a scientist, and as  a research colleague with other academians, I beg to differ in your post.
Read, research before you talk. Only fools defy the proofs that science dictates, it is blind idiocy.

:)


Here is a link
http://tubagbohol.mikeligalig.com/index.php?topic=4982.0
Hello Lorenzo,

First of all the issue of whether there is global warming is not up to politicians to decide whether they are liberal or conservative.  Global warming is a science that should be left to scientists to decide whether it is happening or not.  Politicians are just implementers of policy.

Most of the global warming studies have been based on models.  What the paper you are deriding is challenging the previous global warming models.  And if I may humbly mention, it has been said by one of the most respected modelers that “All models are wrong, but some are useful” (G.E.P Box).  As far as saying that it is accepted by all scientists that global warming is happening, that is a crock!

If you have been doing research on global warming can you please give your peer-reviewed publications that we can read and then make up our minds?


The research paper that I am conducting, which is funded by the Pennsylvania Department of Energy and is a joint thesis paper. I have a thread on it in the Research Cooler if you want to read about it.

Additionally, perhaps you misjudged the point of my post, as it was in condemnation of Political figures of certain nations, which are responsible for the qualitative effects in response to this ecological and biogeochemical response. Perhaps you may have not noticed this, but nation states INFLUENCE global warming, in fact many nation states have directly contributed to the depravation of the stratosphere, atmosphere, ecological environment in terms of unnatural chemical increases in said environment. Politicians, hold the power to either change this course, the laws they pass can either be pro-environment or anti-environment.

A minute case study to verse you in this, is the European Industrialization during the late 18th century to the 19th century, which utilized rare natural resources (non-renewable, such as coal, which also lead to the eutrofication, as well as death to limnoaquatic sites and metals poisoning of localities), the American industrialization, the ongoing global industrialization and the lack of regulation boards in said nation states such as India and China (which are promoting this problem) as well as the United States (the largest consumer of raw natural resources).

As a scientist, and as  a research colleague with other academians, I beg to differ in your post.
Read, research before you talk. Only fools defy the proofs that science dictates, it is blind idiocy.


:)


Here is a link
http://tubagbohol.mikeligalig.com/index.php?topic=4982.0

That is great that you are conducting this research.  Until you evaluate your data and publish it in a peer reviewed publication, I am sorry to say that all you have at this time is mere speculation.  There are a lot of research going on in this world ( including the research for a cure of many forms of cancer!).  Until somebody has a replicatable solution (meaning other scientists can use the Scientific Method to verify the individual results), any results are just personal opinions.  Like they say, opinions are like asses, evrybody has one.

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Re: Global warming or global cooling?
« Reply #14 on: February 27, 2008, 08:26:36 AM »
No you do not need anybody to tell you what is happening!  Anybody can personally believe what they want to believe including that the earth is flat.  The problem becomes when people start spouting ideas and scientifically unfounded hypotheses that are bound to change local, national and international policies that will divert billions and trillions of dollars to fruitless courses.  I am not against global warming per se.  I am against self centered proclamations, having no scientific basis, closed as science.






I agree with you Knownothing!

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Re: Global warming or global cooling?
« Reply #15 on: February 27, 2008, 08:34:04 AM »
My research study is but a wing emphasis on the paleolimnology aspect of Sandy Lake, a limnoaquatic site; which reverberates the historical aspect of Industrialization and eutrophication. There are, however, few researchers that have published articles concerning the current status.

Here are some articles through JSTOR, a science-related engine.

Enjoy:

Global Warming initiative-related articles

http://www.jstor.org/view/00916765/ap060271/06a00080/0?currentResult=00916765%2bap060271%2b06a00080%2b0%2c03&searchUrl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.jstor.org%2Fsearch%2FBasicResults%3Fhp%3D25%26si%3D1%26gw%3Djtx%26jtxsi%3D1%26jcpsi%3D1%26artsi%3D1%26Query%3Dglobal%2Bwarming%26wc%3Don

http://www.jstor.org/view/15409295/ap070009/07a00040/0?currentResult=15409295%2bap070009%2b07a00040%2b0%2c03&searchUrl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.jstor.org%2Fsearch%2FBasicResults%3Fhp%3D25%26si%3D1%26gw%3Djtx%26jtxsi%3D1%26jcpsi%3D1%26artsi%3D1%26Query%3Dglobal%2Bwarming%26wc%3Don

http://www.jstor.org/view/00916765/ap060246/06a00090/0?currentResult=00916765%2bap060246%2b06a00090%2b0%2c03&searchUrl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.jstor.org%2Fsearch%2FBasicResults%3Fhp%3D25%26si%3D1%26gw%3Djtx%26jtxsi%3D1%26jcpsi%3D1%26artsi%3D1%26Query%3Dglobal%2Bwarming%26wc%3Don

http://www.jstor.org/view/00368423/ap071840/07a00130/0?currentResult=00368423%2bap071840%2b07a00130%2b0%2c03&searchUrl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.jstor.org%2Fsearch%2FBasicResults%3Fhp%3D25%26si%3D1%26gw%3Djtx%26jtxsi%3D1%26jcpsi%3D1%26artsi%3D1%26Query%3Dglobal%2Bwarming%26wc%3Don

http://www.jstor.org/view/00368075/ap003622/00a00180/0?currentResult=00368075%2bap003622%2b00a00180%2b0%2c03&searchUrl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.jstor.org%2Fsearch%2FBasicResults%3Fhp%3D25%26si%3D1%26gw%3Djtx%26jtxsi%3D1%26jcpsi%3D1%26artsi%3D1%26Query%3Dglobal%2Bwarming%26wc%3Don


Note, these are all science journal articles are are accredited sources, utilized in academia.

For more, PM me.

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Re: Global warming or global cooling?
« Reply #16 on: February 27, 2008, 08:42:26 AM »
Let discussions be focused on the topic. No personal attacks or name-calling, otherwise this thread will be locked permanently.

Just a friendly reminder. :)

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Re: Global warming or global cooling?
« Reply #17 on: February 27, 2008, 08:43:37 AM »
No you do not need anybody to tell you what is happening!  Anybody can personally believe what they want to believe including that the earth is flat.  The problem becomes when people start spouting ideas and scientifically unfounded hypotheses that are bound to change local, national and international policies that will divert billions and trillions of dollars to fruitless courses.  I am not against global warming per se.  I am against self centered proclamations, having no scientific basis, closed as science.

Your reasoning is extremely closed minded, and perhaps you do not have an understanding in the scientific field. What you call 'fruitless' is considered the benefit of the human species. Science developed from new ideas, when molecular biologists Watson and Crick mapped the anti-parallel structure of the DNA genome, they were still 'unpublished' and their 'opinions' were considered 'unproven' by many colleagues of their day, until they proved it through research. And now, in the present, we are revelling in their discovery, the molecular understanding of the DNA Polymerases, the initiation complex of eukaryotes, prokaryotes, the elongation reactions, the release factors, the effect factors etc etc. All of science and their postulates and laws were once 'unproven hypothesis' that took years and discourse to prove its unassailable nature.

Your defense against blind and stubborn self idealism is wrong and flawed in the first place. You make example of people who believe in the earth being flat, and are trying to make this a personal case; a case related to the right of free speech. It is ironic how you tell me that it is not up to the politicians to dictate global warming, but you yourself utilize a political-related right to believe in anything you want.

No sir, this is not an issue of free speech and the right to believe in fantasies.

We're dealing with concrete discourse and proofs that is thundered by the discourse within the scientific community, that I am but a single component and part of.



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Re: Global warming or global cooling?
« Reply #18 on: February 27, 2008, 08:49:55 AM »
Hello Lorenzo,

First of all the issue of whether there is global warming is not up to politicians to decide whether they are liberal or conservative.  Global warming is a science that should be left to scientists to decide whether it is happening or not.  Politicians are just implementers of policy.

Most of the global warming studies have been based on models.  What the paper you are deriding is challenging the previous global warming models.  And if I may humbly mention, it has been said by one of the most respected modelers that “All models are wrong, but some are useful” (G.E.P Box).  As far as saying that it is accepted by all scientists that global warming is happening, that is a crock!

If you have been doing research on global warming can you please give your peer-reviewed publications that we can read and then make up our minds?


The research paper that I am conducting, which is funded by the Pennsylvania Department of Energy and is a joint thesis paper. I have a thread on it in the Research Cooler if you want to read about it.

Additionally, perhaps you misjudged the point of my post, as it was in condemnation of Political figures of certain nations, which are responsible for the qualitative effects in response to this ecological and biogeochemical response. Perhaps you may have not noticed this, but nation states INFLUENCE global warming, in fact many nation states have directly contributed to the depravation of the stratosphere, atmosphere, ecological environment in terms of unnatural chemical increases in said environment. Politicians, hold the power to either change this course, the laws they pass can either be pro-environment or anti-environment.

A minute case study to verse you in this, is the European Industrialization during the late 18th century to the 19th century, which utilized rare natural resources (non-renewable, such as coal, which also lead to the eutrofication, as well as death to limnoaquatic sites and metals poisoning of localities), the American industrialization, the ongoing global industrialization and the lack of regulation boards in said nation states such as India and China (which are promoting this problem) as well as the United States (the largest consumer of raw natural resources).

As a scientist, and as  a research colleague with other academians, I beg to differ in your post.
Read, research before you talk. Only fools defy the proofs that science dictates, it is blind idiocy.

:)


Here is a link
http://tubagbohol.mikeligalig.com/index.php?topic=4982.0
Hello Lorenzo,

First of all the issue of whether there is global warming is not up to politicians to decide whether they are liberal or conservative.  Global warming is a science that should be left to scientists to decide whether it is happening or not.  Politicians are just implementers of policy.

Most of the global warming studies have been based on models.  What the paper you are deriding is challenging the previous global warming models.  And if I may humbly mention, it has been said by one of the most respected modelers that “All models are wrong, but some are useful” (G.E.P Box).  As far as saying that it is accepted by all scientists that global warming is happening, that is a crock!

If you have been doing research on global warming can you please give your peer-reviewed publications that we can read and then make up our minds?


The research paper that I am conducting, which is funded by the Pennsylvania Department of Energy and is a joint thesis paper. I have a thread on it in the Research Cooler if you want to read about it.

Additionally, perhaps you misjudged the point of my post, as it was in condemnation of Political figures of certain nations, which are responsible for the qualitative effects in response to this ecological and biogeochemical response. Perhaps you may have not noticed this, but nation states INFLUENCE global warming, in fact many nation states have directly contributed to the depravation of the stratosphere, atmosphere, ecological environment in terms of unnatural chemical increases in said environment. Politicians, hold the power to either change this course, the laws they pass can either be pro-environment or anti-environment.

A minute case study to verse you in this, is the European Industrialization during the late 18th century to the 19th century, which utilized rare natural resources (non-renewable, such as coal, which also lead to the eutrofication, as well as death to limnoaquatic sites and metals poisoning of localities), the American industrialization, the ongoing global industrialization and the lack of regulation boards in said nation states such as India and China (which are promoting this problem) as well as the United States (the largest consumer of raw natural resources).

As a scientist, and as  a research colleague with other academians, I beg to differ in your post.
Read, research before you talk. Only fools defy the proofs that science dictates, it is blind idiocy.


:)


Here is a link
http://tubagbohol.mikeligalig.com/index.php?topic=4982.0

That is great that you are conducting this research.  Until you evaluate your data and publish it in a peer reviewed publication, I am sorry to say that all you have at this time is mere speculation.  There are a lot of research going on in this world ( including the research for a cure of many forms of cancer!).  Until somebody has a replicatable solution (meaning other scientists can use the Scientific Method to verify the individual results), any results are just personal opinions.  Like they say, opinions are like asses, evrybody has one.




but you know what?

if i own the governement, i would spend trillions of money for this reseach than going to war...

because everybody would benefit for this...

Knownothing, what really is your point?

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Re: Global warming or global cooling?
« Reply #19 on: February 27, 2008, 08:52:17 AM »
Some more articles that you might want to read, KnowNothing  :)

Among Global thermometers, Warming Still Wins Out
http://www.jstor.org/view/00368075/di002488/00p0500t/0?currentResult=00368075%2bdi002488%2b00p0500t%2b0%2c07&searchUrl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.jstor.org%2Fsearch%2FBasicResults%3Fhp%3D25%26si%3D1%26gw%3Djtx%26jtxsi%3D1%26jcpsi%3D1%26artsi%3D1%26Query%3Dglobal%2Bwarming%26wc%3Don

Global Warming Continues by the Science Compass
http://www.jstor.org/view/00368075/sp030103/03x1458b/0?currentResult=00368075%2bsp030103%2b03x1458b%2b0%2c03&searchUrl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.jstor.org%2Fsearch%2FBasicResults%3Fhp%3D25%26si%3D1%26gw%3Djtx%26jtxsi%3D1%26jcpsi%3D1%26artsi%3D1%26Query%3Dglobal%2Bwarming%26wc%3Don

Heat Indications
http://www.jstor.org/view/00368423/ap071253/07a00070/0?currentResult=00368423%2bap071253%2b07a00070%2b0%2c03&searchUrl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.jstor.org%2Fsearch%2FBasicResults%3Fhp%3D25%26si%3D1%26gw%3Djtx%26jtxsi%3D1%26jcpsi%3D1%26artsi%3D1%26Query%3Dglobal%2Bwarming%26wc%3Don

Boreal Forests and the Carbon Cycle
http://www.jstor.org/view/00368075/ap003629/00a00050/0?currentResult=00368075%2bap003629%2b00a00050%2b0%2c07&searchUrl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.jstor.org%2Fsearch%2FBasicResults%3Fhp%3D25%26si%3D1%26gw%3Djtx%26jtxsi%3D1%26jcpsi%3D1%26artsi%3D1%26Query%3Dglobal%2Bwarming%26wc%3Don

Science News Article
http://www.jstor.org/view/00368423/ap071803/07a00030/0?currentResult=00368423%2bap071803%2b07a00030%2b0%2c03&searchUrl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.jstor.org%2Fsearch%2FBasicResults%3Fhp%3D25%26si%3D1%26gw%3Djtx%26jtxsi%3D1%26jcpsi%3D1%26artsi%3D1%26Query%3Dglobal%2Bwarming%26wc%3Don

Global Warming and Arctic Circle
http://www.jstor.org/view/00368423/ap071156/07a00040/0?currentResult=00368423%2bap071156%2b07a00040%2b0%2c03&searchUrl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.jstor.org%2Fsearch%2FBasicResults%3Fhp%3D25%26si%3D26%26gw%3Djtx%26jtxsi%3D26%26jcpsi%3D1%26artsi%3D1%26Query%3Dglobal%2Bwarming%26wc%3Don

Global Warming's Effects on Bird Egg Size
http://www.jstor.org/view/09067590/ap060009/06a00140/0?currentResult=09067590%2bap060009%2b06a00140%2b0%2c0F&searchUrl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.jstor.org%2Fsearch%2FBasicResults%3Fhp%3D25%26si%3D26%26gw%3Djtx%26jtxsi%3D26%26jcpsi%3D1%26artsi%3D1%26Query%3Dglobal%2Bwarming%26wc%3Don

Climate and Forests
http://www.jstor.org/view/00368075/ap003636/00a00030/0?currentResult=00368075%2bap003636%2b00a00030%2b0%2c02&searchUrl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.jstor.org%2Fsearch%2FBasicResults%3Fhp%3D25%26si%3D26%26gw%3Djtx%26jtxsi%3D26%26jcpsi%3D1%26artsi%3D1%26Query%3Dglobal%2Bwarming%26wc%3Don

Greenhouse Concern
http://www.jstor.org/view/00368423/ap070914/07a00050/0?currentResult=00368423%2bap070914%2b07a00050%2b0%2c02&searchUrl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.jstor.org%2Fsearch%2FBasicResults%3Fhp%3D25%26si%3D26%26gw%3Djtx%26jtxsi%3D26%26jcpsi%3D1%26artsi%3D1%26Query%3Dglobal%2Bwarming%26wc%3Don



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Re: Global warming or global cooling?
« Reply #20 on: February 27, 2008, 08:53:22 AM »
Let discussions be focused on the topic. No personal attacks or name-calling, otherwise this thread will be locked permanently.

Just a friendly reminder. :)

I agree with you, MIke!  Sige, let's just discuss these issues  because you guys are educating me.  (smile)

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Re: Global warming or global cooling?
« Reply #21 on: February 27, 2008, 08:55:40 AM »
Ate Ging, I recommend you read the article sites that I provide.

It gives a deeper scientific explanation of things.




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Know Nothing

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Re: Global warming or global cooling?
« Reply #22 on: February 27, 2008, 08:58:07 AM »
Let just say this.  I was fairly familiar with genetics before there was nanotechnology.  I have a fair understanding of biogechemistry and I also have a fair understanding of multivariate analysis and modeling.  I am not attacking anybody personally.  All I am saying is that if somebody is going to present something as a scientific fact, they better be able to support it according to accepted scientific way (peer reviewed publications is one of them). 

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Re: Global warming or global cooling?
« Reply #23 on: February 27, 2008, 09:00:32 AM »
Understood. I've provided you multiple examples. Is that all you were trying to get across?




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Re: Global warming or global cooling?
« Reply #24 on: February 27, 2008, 09:05:22 AM »
Ate Ging, I recommend you read the article sites that I provide.

It gives a deeper scientific explanation of things.




Sige Dong, I will.  Thanks for the info.

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Re: Global warming or global cooling?
« Reply #25 on: February 27, 2008, 09:08:07 AM »
One of the problems that I have with some governments, the United States government under the Bush Administration, for example, the Chinese and Indian governments is their refusal to sign the Kyoto Agreement, which would place a restriction on industrial effluents.

It is appalling to me, that the United States would refuse such an initiative, when other major players of the world have endorsed it or are asking the United States to sign the initiative.

All I was trying to say, KnowNothing, is that politicians have a role, a pivotal one in particular, in regulating Global Warming.

Additionally, my research is still on going, it will be reviewed by a board by the end of March, and it focuses primarily on the history of Industrialization, it provides a case study to human effects on limnoaquatic sites, as well as on the overall environment. Primarily focusing on changes of %Carbon vs % Nitrogen vs % Sulfur on core analysis. Additional to that, is the examining of key coal-related metals such as Cadmium, zinc, lead, mercury and arsenic--in tracing that presence from the early 19th century to the present vis-a-vis core stratification. Under CNS analysis and AAS (atomic absorption spectrometer).

My research provides a historical reference to the global warming phenomena and its inter-related nature to Human Industry, past and the present.



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Re: Global warming or global cooling?
« Reply #26 on: February 27, 2008, 09:33:01 AM »
Lorenzo,
I applaud you on your research and sincerely hope that you will come out with findings that can help everybody to better deal with the mother earth environment.  I am the first to admit that we really need to take care of our natural resources both for our present use and for all future generations.  The Kyoto (in my humble opinion) was a well intentioned but poorly structured first attempt to deal with 21st environmental problems.  Despite the fact that the US did not sign it, I am not sure that many of the countries that signed the Kyoto agreement have fully implemented it (anybody correct me if I am wrong). 

I am still not convinced that global warming is being caused by humans.  That is not to say that I deny it.  All I am saying is that I have not yet seen the pure science that is not polluted by supporters and to be honest deniers of global warming.  In short, Lorenzo, keep up the good scientific work and may you soon prove some of us wrong and some of us right on global warming.  But the prove has to be on generally accepted scientific methods and not what me (Know nothing) or you Lorenzo want to believe.  God bless and good luck to you.

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Re: Global warming or global cooling?
« Reply #27 on: February 27, 2008, 11:21:10 AM »
Like yourself, I am in support of a greater care of our limited non-renewable resources; on that note, like many of my colleagues, I want a greater fuel-efficient program to reduce the burden of our consumption of non-renewable products such as coal, natural gas, petroleum. I applaud nation states in Europe such as Denmark, Germany, Sweden, The Netherlands for utilizing renewable energy power such as solar power, wind turbines. A great model is Denmark, a nation which derives 20% of its entire energy source from wind turbines. Additionally, The wind industry is a very important business in Denmark, with wind manufacturing activity bringing about 3 billion Euro into the Danish economy and employing 20,000 people.

Wind power is also important in Denmark because it is a green, clean and renewable energy. Scandinavians are known for their advanced environmental policies, and wind power has given the Danes a way to reduce their dependency on polluting fuels: 20% of Denmark’s electricity consumption is covered by clean electricity produced at Danish wind farms. At times, wind power supply is able to cover the total electricity consumption of the whole west of Denmark.

The United States, the world's leading consumer of all kinds of non-renewable resources ranging from natural gas, petroleum, coal etc can benefit from adopting similar policies. In the northwestern region of the United States, particularly in Minnesota, North/South Dakota, there is a rich possibility of placing thousands of wind turbines to generate double of not triple the energy Denmark generates in wind turbines. This form of energy can aid in alleviating the US's dependence on non-renewable resources such as natural gas, which is consumed in the billions of barrels per year.

There are so much possibilities for improvement, for alleviating the process of global warming. The more we invest in pure-form energy such as hydrogen fuel cells, nuclear power, wind power and solar power means there will be an inverse decreasein dependence on non-renewable energy sources that are responsible for the CO2, NO2, NO3 and other dimunitive green house gases that are responsible for the degradation of the stratosphere.

I remain hopeful. I refuse to believe that the human species will allow this transgression to continue. I pray History proves our generation wise enough to implement such changes. Humans are part of the environment, as animals, we evolved from it, and asthe apex life form in the continuum of God's green earth, we must take up the role of steward in protecting our domain. Our Earth.

Cheers,




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Re: Global warming or global cooling?
« Reply #28 on: February 27, 2008, 12:07:21 PM »
CO2, NO2,NO3 or whatever...

the world itself is too populated, would you agree??

the law of supply and demand, know what i mean?

bottom line there's too much going on with our planet whether you inhale/exhale gas, fart or whatever...

just too much people now on earth that causes this what they called the Global Warming...

whether it is Global Warming or not, WE are now destroying our planet EARTH...

WE...

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Know Nothing

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Re: Global warming or global cooling?
« Reply #29 on: February 27, 2008, 12:20:53 PM »
I totally agree that we all need to think about the natural resources that we use.  In my personal life I try to recycle as much as I can.  My argument ( and yes I live in the US) is that yes the US can do a lot of things to reduce its overall use of natural resources.  But to try and make the US to be Denmark, it just is not gonna happen!  That goes for India, China and the Russia too!  The population of and size of Denmark is smaller than probably those of at least 50 individual cities in the US (I do not know that for a fact, but I do not I am that far oof-- sorry Denmark).  Lets look at some human related issues.  When there is a tsunami in Asia, earthquake in South America, AIDs in Africa, how much does Denmark send to help compared to the US?  If we are all going to be like Denmark, maybe when there is a Tsunami disaster in Asia, we should all send them a windmill or two.

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Re: Global warming or global cooling?
« Reply #30 on: February 27, 2008, 01:00:13 PM »
CO2, NO2,NO3 or whatever...

the world itself is too populated, would you agree??

the law of supply and demand, know what i mean?

bottom line there's too much going on with our planet whether you inhale/exhale gas, fart or whatever...

just too much people now on earth that causes this what they called the Global Warming...

whether it is Global Warming or not, WE are now destroying our planet EARTH...

WE...

That is just the problem. There are too many humans. Over 6 billion and growing.

Humans species is unnatural in a way, we have completely checked any natural predators that would have checked our population. Even natural 'checks' such as diseases and plagues, are being defeated by medical advancements. It almost relates to the Malthusian Theory where natural resource abundance is constant and human population is growing asymmetrically that it would someday surmount over the resource population. I took a class that focused on this, loved it, but any ways back to the subject, human population growth is a violation of natural law. In biology, the theory asserts that the reproductive potential of virtually any organism or species greatly exceeds the earth's capacity to support all its possible offspring. Consequently, species diversity is preserved through mechanisms that keep population sizes in check, such as predation. These mechanisms are typhoons, hurricanes, plagues, drought, infertility.

Man has already defeated most of these mechanisms, or has developed instruments to reduce the damage effects of said mechanisms. Thereby precluding a maintenance of the positive linear population growth over any loss of life.

Interesting eh?





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Re: Global warming or global cooling?
« Reply #31 on: February 27, 2008, 01:06:44 PM »
Know Nothing, so what do you think about former VP Al Gore's documentary wherein he just won the Nobel Peace Price because of what he did.

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Re: Global warming or global cooling?
« Reply #32 on: February 27, 2008, 01:16:32 PM »
CO2, NO2,NO3 or whatever...

the world itself is too populated, would you agree??

the law of supply and demand, know what i mean?

bottom line there's too much going on with our planet whether you inhale/exhale gas, fart or whatever...

just too much people now on earth that causes this what they called the Global Warming...

whether it is Global Warming or not, WE are now destroying our planet EARTH...

WE...

That is just the problem. There are too many humans. Over 6 billion and growing.

Humans species is unnatural in a way, we have completely checked any natural predators that would have checked our population. Even natural 'checks' such as diseases and plagues, are being defeated by medical advancements. It almost relates to the Malthusian Theory where natural resource abundance constant and human population was growing assymetrically that it would someday surmount over the resrource population. I took a class that focused on this, loved it, but any ways back to the subject, human population growth is a violation of natural law. In biology, the theory asserts that the reproductive potential of virtually any organism or species greatly exceeds the earth's capacity to support all its possible offspring. Consequently, species diversity is preserved through mechanisms that keep population sizes in check, such as predation. These mechanisms are typhoons, hurricanes, plagues, drought, infertility.

Man has already defeated most of these mechanisms, or has developed instruments to reduce the damage effects of said mechanisms. Thereby precluding a maintenance of the positive linear population growth over any loss of life.

Interesting eh?








hhahhahha

loved it!



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Know Nothing

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Re: Global warming or global cooling?
« Reply #33 on: February 27, 2008, 03:05:37 PM »
Know Nothing, so what do you think about former VP Al Gore's documentary wherein he just won the Nobel Peace Price because of what he did.

I do not begrudge anybody for getting a prize.  Al Gore got his Nobel Peace Prize from a smart but somewhat left leaning group of people.  To me, there is nothing wrong with being left leaning or right leaning because there is room for everybody in this world and it is good to have diversity of ideas.  The question to me is whether the documentary will survive the scrutiny of real science in the future.  I contend that it will not.  The future will have to determine this.

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Re: Global warming or global cooling?
« Reply #34 on: February 27, 2008, 03:10:24 PM »
In the past, the issue on Global Warming has been extensively discussed here in Tubag Bohol.  In one of the threads started by Mike (I think)  entitled Global Warming:  Boholano perspective.  I had one of the best kukabildos with one TB member that vanished already, Mr. Way Nada (sounds like Knows Nothing! :D).  I am just sharing you here the link: 

http://tubagbohol.mikeligalig.com/index.php?topic=2552.0

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Re: Global warming or global cooling?
« Reply #35 on: February 27, 2008, 03:12:29 PM »
Know Nothing, so what do you think about former VP Al Gore's documentary wherein he just won the Nobel Peace Price because of what he did.

Beth, did you see the documentary, the An Inconvenient Truth?

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Lorenzo

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Re: Global warming or global cooling?
« Reply #36 on: February 27, 2008, 04:08:20 PM »
'te, that movie was a great film.

It brought up a good point.

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Re: Global warming or global cooling?
« Reply #37 on: February 27, 2008, 04:12:45 PM »
Yes, it did but I have to admit there were some parts where it was so hard to digest especially when talking about modelling of the earth. Other than that, it was a powerful documentary.

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Re: Global warming or global cooling?
« Reply #38 on: February 27, 2008, 04:19:03 PM »
Yes, besides its left leaning tendencies, the overall film was genuine.
We had a table discussion about that film last semester, and it was very interesting to hear the viewpoints of my research colleagues and my Professors. Their views agreed with Gore's, though less on the political policy etc.



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Re: Global warming or global cooling?
« Reply #39 on: February 27, 2008, 04:32:59 PM »
Yes, Dong!  The message in that documentary was really good and if we can get the children to pay attention to see that documentary (which I failed at some point while watching that :D), we can inculcate to their young minds the importance of taking good care of Mother Earth. 

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