An Islamic Justice

[islander]

we can even go back a long way...


killing in the name of christianity

Elements of the Crusades were criticized by some from the time of their inception in 1095.  For example, Roger Bacon felt the Crusades were not effective because, "those who survive, together with their children, are more and more embittered against the Christian faith."  In spite of such criticism, the movement was widely supported in Europe long after the fall of Acre in 1291. 

St. Francis of Assisi crossed enemy lines to meet the Sultan of Egypt.  Hoeberichts cast doubt on the intentions most Christian historians assign to Francis.

From the fall of Acre forward, the Crusades to recover Jerusalem and the Christian East were largely lost.  Later, 18th century Enlightenment thinkers judged the Crusaders harshly.  Likewise, some modern historians in the West expressed moral outrage.  In the 1950s, Sir Steven Runciman wrote a resounding condemnation:

    "High ideals were besmirched by cruelty and greed ... the Holy War was nothing more than a long act of intolerance in the name of God."

-excerpts from wikipedia

[islander]

Bush's use of word 'crusade' a red flag
Muslims link it with invasion by Europeans

By SALLY BUZBEE
THE ASSOCIATED PRESS
September 17, 2001

WASHINGTON -- President Bush calls it a "crusade," a war against a new kind of evil. But using such a term, loaded with historical baggage about religious wars, could alienate moderate Muslims that the United States needs, some experts caution.

"A lot of people think that America is out to get Islam, anyway," Joshua Salaam, director of the Council on American-Islamic Relations in Washington, said yesterday. "We've got to be careful of the words we use."

U.S. leaders should be especially leery of anything that hints at a holy war, many said, because it plays into the hands of Osama bin Laden, who has said he wants the world to plunge into a war, or jihad, between Islam and Christianity.

"It's what the terrorists use to recruit people -- saying that Christians are on a crusade against Islam," said Yvonne Haddad, a professor of the history of Islam at Georgetown University in Washington. "It's as bad to their ears as it is when we hear 'jihad.'"

The Crusades were a series of wars fought in the Middle Ages after Christian armies traveled to Palestine, or what is now Israel, to attack the Muslim armies that controlled Jerusalem.

Between 1096 and 1270, European kings such as Richard the Lionhearted raised armies of knights in the effort to regain for Christians the Holy Land, where Jesus Christ lived and died.

Jerusalem is also holy to Jews and to Muslims, and Muslims had controlled it since the early 600s.

Most historians say the Christians lost. The European armies regained Jerusalem on and off, but eventually were beaten back.

The word "crusade" is used commonly in the United States, and does not have much of a religious context.

Bush said, "This is a new kind of, a new kind of evil. ... And the American people are beginning to understand. This crusade, this war on terrorism is going to take awhile."

Nevertheless, to many Muslims, the Crusades represent the worst of Western expansionism and colonialism, said James Lindsey, a senior fellow at the Brookings Institution. That type of imagery could make moderate Arabs and Muslims, whom the United States needs to aid its anti-terrorism campaign, more nervous about U.S. motives.

"It's important for us to say this is not about the West vs. Islam, or Europeans vs. Arabs, or Christians vs. Muslims," Lindsay said. "This is about a man who is evil and finding ways to stop him."

http://www.seattlepi.com/

[islander]

meanwhile, somewhere else...



For years, beginning in the late 1960s, the IRA was considered one of the most dangerous terrorist organizations in the world. In July 2002, on the thirtieth anniversary of the 1972 "Bloody Friday" bombings, the IRA startled its sympathizers and enemies alike by offering "sincere apologies and condolences" to the families of its civilian victims. The IRA has never been listed as a terrorist organization by the State Department,* but the British Home Office lists any group under the IRA name, as well as various splinter organizations, as proscribed terrorist groups. The IRA no longer describes itself as an armed force and officially ended its armed campaign to reunify Ireland in July 2005. An independent report stated that the IRA has decommissioned its weapons. This announcement was greeted with praise and hope by both the British and Irish governments. However, the IRA and its political wing still oppose what it calls an illegal foreign occupation of its country. Meanwhile, two IRA splinter groups, Real IRA and Continuity IRA, still practice terrorism and remain on the EU's and the State Department's terrorist group lists as recently as 2009.

http://www.cfr.org/terrorist-organizations/

[islander]

we know the IRA's opponent is the united kingdom.  we know too that they happen to be catholics who are up in arms against those who happen to be protestants, as exemplified most of all by the orangemen.  yet no one dared, not the western press, ever call them "catholic terrorists".  why is it so easy for us to say "muslim terrorists"? 

[islander]

closer to your home...


looks familiar?


The lynching of Leo Frank (a Jew)

they are christians!

[islander]

this goes without saying that man's inhumanity to man is not a monopoly of any particular religious adherent.  it is simply man being what he is or what he chooses to be.

in our day and age, a more enlightened one supposedly, religion bashing is nothing but a reflection of religious bigotry.  but how can we be secure about our christian god if we are insecure about the muslim allah?

peace be unto you.  salaam aleikum.

islander
catolico cerrado

[statesville]

Under the Old testament a woman who committed adultery will be stoned to death,
  pero kon ingon ana pa sa New Testament daghan nang  gibatobatoan karon   
 

[Lorenzo]

closer to your home...


looks familiar?


The lynching of Leo Frank (a Jew)

they are christians!

The Ku Klux Klan is a racist , anti-semitic, anti-catholic, anti-orthodoxy, anti-miscegenation. This group does not represent Christianity. It feeds on the notion of White Superiority and the Inferiority of non-whites, which is totally and absolutely baseless.

Jesus Christ was not White European. Jesus Christ was a Semitic Hebrew. A native of Galilee.

[Lorenzo]

we know the IRA's opponent is the united kingdom.  we know too that they happen to be catholics who are up in arms against those who happen to be protestants, as exemplified most of all by the orangemen.  yet no one dared, not the western press, ever call them "catholic terrorists".  why is it so easy for us to say "muslim terrorists"? 

The IRA is a terrorist organization , who act directly against Catholic Doctrine, which does not support the killing of life. The One, Holy, Apostolic Roman Catholic Church reasserts the importance of human life. Born and Unborn. IRA members have utilized their actions to accomplish a political goal/ message, which is their opposition of the occupation of Northern Ireland, which is a member body of the United Kingdom of Great Britain.

[Lorenzo]

we can even go back a long way...


killing in the name of christianity

Elements of the Crusades were criticized by some from the time of their inception in 1095.  For example, Roger Bacon felt the Crusades were not effective because, "those who survive, together with their children, are more and more embittered against the Christian faith."  In spite of such criticism, the movement was widely supported in Europe long after the fall of Acre in 1291. 

St. Francis of Assisi crossed enemy lines to meet the Sultan of Egypt.  Hoeberichts cast doubt on the intentions most Christian historians assign to Francis.

From the fall of Acre forward, the Crusades to recover Jerusalem and the Christian East were largely lost.  Later, 18th century Enlightenment thinkers judged the Crusaders harshly.  Likewise, some modern historians in the West expressed moral outrage.  In the 1950s, Sir Steven Runciman wrote a resounding condemnation:

    "High ideals were besmirched by cruelty and greed ... the Holy War was nothing more than a long act of intolerance in the name of God."

-excerpts from wikipedia

The Crusades occurred almost over a millennia ago. The Christian Church has apologized for their actions in it, the late Pope John Paul II offered his apologies for the Catholic Church's involvement in it.

The massacres of Christians by Muslims is occurring now. In the present.


---------------


Saving one of his most audacious initiatives for the twilight of his papacy, John Paul II yesterday attempted to purify the soul of the Roman Catholic church by making a sweeping apology for 2,000 years of violence, persecution and blunders.

From the altar of St Peter's Basilica in Rome he led Catholicism into unchartered territory by seeking forgiveness for sins committed against Jews, heretics, women, Gypsies and native peoples.

Fighting through trembles and slurrings caused by Parkinson's disease, the Pope electrified ranks of cardinals and bishops by pleading for a future that would not repeat the mistakes. "Never again," he said.

Centuries of hate and rivalry could not recur in the third millennium. "We forgive and we ask forgiveness. We are asking pardon for the divisions among Christians, for the use of violence that some have committed in the service of truth, and for attitudes of mistrust and hostility assumed towards followers of other religions."

Plea for brotherhood

Defying warnings from some theologians that the unprecedented apology would undermine the church's authority, the 79-year-old pontiff asked God to forgive the persecution of the Jews. "We are deeply saddened by the behaviour of those who in the course of history have caused these children of yours to suffer, and asking your forgiveness we wish to commit ourselves to genuine brotherhood."

Wearing the purple vestments of lenten mourning, the Pope sought pardon for seven categories of sin: general sins; sins in the service of truth; sins against Christian unity; against the Jews; against respect for love, peace and cultures; against the dignity of women and minorities; and against human rights.

Ethnic groups had endured "contempt for their cultures and religious traditions". Women were "all too often humiliated and marginalised". Trust in wealth and power had obscured the church's responsibility to the poor and oppressed.

There was no reference to homosexuals, who had asked to be included for suffering theocratic violence. The Pope did not identify guilty individuals or name the crusades, the Inquisition or the Holocaust, but the references were clear.

Five Vatican cardinals and two bishops confessed sins on behalf of the church during the ceremony. Cardinal Edward Cassidy recalled the "sufferings of the people of Israel" asked divine pardon for the "sins committed by not a few [Catholics] against the people of the covenant".

'Warped' view

Several Jewish leaders praised the sermon as historic and significant but Israel's chief rabbi said he was deeply frustrated by the Pope's failure to mention the Holocaust, and described the service as "a severely warped view of history".

Rabbi Israel Meir Lau joined other Israelis in expressing hope that the pope had omitted acknowledging the church's passivity during the Holocaust only because he was planning a specific apology during next week's pilgrimage to the holy land.

Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger, head of the congregation of the doctrine of the faith, confessed to the sins of the congregation's predecessor, the Inquisition. "Even men of the church, in the name of faith and morals, have sometimes used methods not in keeping with the Gospel," he said.

Applause from the congregation greeted the Pope's arrival in the basilica. He kneeled before the Pieta, Michelangelo's statue of the dead Christ in the arms of his mother, before being wheeled to the altar. He leaned on his silver staff and it took several attempts for him to get out of his chair to kiss a crucifix. The Vatican no longer denies the Pope has Parkinson's disease. An operation to remove a tumour, several falls and an assassination attempt have left him hunched and stiff.

Seeking forgiveness has been a leitmotif of his papacy since his election in 1978. He has apologised for the crusades, the massacre of French Protestants, the trial of Galileo and anti-semitism.

Yesterday's apology was by far the most sweeping and an unprecedented act for the leader of a major religion. One of the highlights of this year's jubilee, or holy year, it was the result of four years' research by a panel of 28 theologians and scholars.

Disquiet that the apology was a beautiful gesture but a theological mistake bubbled to the surface last week.

Echoing widespread concern from liberal as well as conservative theologians, the Bishop of Como, Alessandro Maggiolini, said: "In whose name, exactly, is the holy father asking pardon? He is relying on a group of experts, but tomorrow another group of experts might come up with different examples."

Other churchmen said the gesture would be seen by Muslims as a sign of weakness and by secular enemies as a cue to launch further attacks.

The Pope's persistence in ramming through the initiative, despite resistance inside the Vatican, has doused claims that he has effectively retired and abandoned policy-making.

The document that provides the theological framework emphasises a distinction between the sins committed by the church's sons and daughters and the church itself, which remains holy and immaculate.

Speaking after the ceremony to the crowd in St Peter's Square, the Pope stressed he was seeking forgiveness not from those who had been wronged, but from God. "Only he can do that."

2,000 years of violence and persecution

The Crusades

Pope Urban II, anxious to assert Rome's authority in the east, sent a military expedition in 1095 to reconquer the holy land. The crusaders ravaged the countries they passed through and massacred the Muslim, Jewish and even Christian population of Jerusalem after capturing it in 1099. After 200 years of conflict Muslim armies drove them out for good, but the crusaders' symbol of the red cross remains provocative.

The Inquisition

The attempt to combat suspected apostates, Jews and Muslims at the time of the Reformation spawned tribunals in Europe and the new world that tortured and executed thousands. Ecclesiastical queasiness about flowing blood led to the use of racks, thumbscrews and red-hot metal instead of blades; 2,000 people were burned at the stake during the tenure of Spain's first grand inquisitor, Tomas de Torquemada.

The Holocaust

Pope Pius XII never publicly condemned the Nazis' persecution of Jews, even when they were being rounded up and deported from Rome. His silence is partly blamed for the failure of Germany's Catholics to resist Hitler. Anti-Jewish Catholic doctrines such as the claim that the Jews murdered Christ were said to have ideologically underpinned nazism. Vatican officials allegedly helped Nazis escape Europe after the war.


http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2000/mar/13/catholicism.religion

[Lorenzo]

The Persecution of Christians in Pakistan



In Pakistan 1.5% of the population are Christian. Pakistani law mandates that "blasphemies" of the Qur'an are to be met with punishment. Ayub Masih, a Christian, was convicted of blasphemy and sentenced to death in 1998. He was accused by a neighbor of stating that he supported British writer Salman Rushdie, author of The Satanic Verses. Lower appeals courts upheld the conviction. However, before the Pakistan Supreme Court, his lawyer was able to prove that the accuser had used the conviction to force Masih's family off their land and then acquired control of the property. Masih has been released.

In October 2001, gunmen on motorcycles opened fire on a Protestant congregation in the Punjab, killing 18 people. The identify of the gunmen are unknown. Officials think it might be a banned Islamic group

In March 2002, five people were killed in an attack on a church in Islamabad, including an American schoolgirl and her mother

In August 2002, masked gunmen stormed a Christian missionary school for foreigners in Islamabad, six people were killed and three injured. None of those killed were children of foreign missionaries.

n August 2002, grenades were thrown at a church in the grounds of a Christian hospital in north-west Pakistan, near Islamabad, killing three nurses.

In November 2005 3,000 militant Islamists attacked Christians in Sangla Hill in Pakistan and destroyed Roman Catholic, Salvation Army and United Presbyterian churches. The attack was over allegations of violation of blasphemy laws by a Pakistani Christian named Yousaf Masih. The attacks were widely condemned by some political parties in Pakistan.

On 5 June 2006 a Pakistani Christian stonemason, Nasir Ashraf, was working near Lahore when he drank water from a public facility using a glass chained to the facility. He was assaulted by Muslims for "Polluting the glass". A mob developed, who beat Ashraf, calling him a "Christian dog". Bystanders encouraged the beating and joined in. Ashraf was eventually hospitalized.

One year later, in August 2007, a Christian missionary couple, Rev. Arif and Kathleen Khan, were gunned down by militant Islamists in Islamabad. Pakistani police believed that the murders was committed by a member of Khan's parish over alleged sexual harassment by Khan. This assertion is widely doubted by Khan's family as well as by Pakistani Christians.

In August 2009, six Christians, including 4 women and a child, were burnt alive by Muslim militants and a church set ablaze in Gojra, Pakistan when violence broke out after alleged desecration of a Qur'an in a wedding ceremony by Christians.


On Nov. 8, 2010, a Christian woman from Punjab Province, Asia Noreen Bibi, was sentenced to death by hanging for violating Pakistan's blasphemy law. The accusation stemmed from a 2009 incident in which Bibi became involved in a religious argument after offering water to thirsty Muslim farm workers. The workers later claimed that she had blasphemed the Prophet Muhammed. As of 8 April 2011, Bibi is in solitary confinement. Her family has fled. No one in Pakistan convicted of blasphemy has ever been executed. A cleric has offered $5,800 to anyone who kills her.


On 2 March 2011, the only Christian minister in the Pakistan government was shot dead. He was targeted for opposing the anti-free speech "blasphemy" law, which punishes insulting Islam or its Prophet. A fundamentalist Muslim group claimed responsibility.




Source: Wikipedia.com

[Lorenzo]

Christians in Pakistan who had their home destroyed by members of the community. The reason: Failing to convert to Islam.

[Lorenzo]

A Christian Village Set Ablaze in Pakistan. 2009.





In August 2009, a mob of religious bigots took seven lives in Gojra, Pakistan, which has a Christian minority, and the whole village was set ablaze.

This violent act continued for five hours and busloads of people joined the mob from neighborhoods with the police backing away. This horrifying violence left religious minorities asking the question, “Will it happen elsewhere again?”

http://criticalppp.com/archives/49665

[Lorenzo]

Christian Minister in Pakistan Murdered By Muslim Gunmen



Pakistani militants shot dead Pakistan's only Christian government minister for challenging a law that mandates the death penalty for insulting Islam, the latest sign of instability in a country where many fear radical Islam is becoming more mainstream.

Minister for Minorities Shahbaz Bhatti is the second senior official this year to be assassinated for opposing the blasphemy law. Provincial governor Salman Taseer was shot dead by his own bodyguard in January....

Bhatti was shot by men in shawls in broad daylight while he was traveling in a car near a market in the capital, Islamabad, police said. The Pakistani Militants claimed responsibility for the killing, saying the minister had been "punished" for being a blasphemer....

Witnesses said the attackers scattered leaflets signed by "The Qaeda and the Taliban of Punjab" at the attack scene, which read: "This is the punishment of this cursed man."


http://islamradio.es/english/index.php/news/105-news/news4/140-pakistani-christian-minister-killed-by-muslims

[Lorenzo]

Note: Many of the muslims that live in the west and in countries with 'enlightened' civil liberties laws are able to practice their religion. However, the Christians who live in predominantly Muslim countries live in fear of retaliation.

In the United States, a predominatly Christian nation, the muslims live in freedom to worship their religion because their rights are protected by the American Constitution and secondary groups such as the ACLU (American Civil Liberties Union), NAACP (National Association for Advancement of Colored Peoples) etc.

However, if you were a Christian who tried to build a Christian Church in Pakistan, or if you were a Christian who attends Church on Sundays, you are in danger of getting killed by some fundamentalist muslim. This is going on everyday in many muslim countries that still apply Islamic Sharia Laws.

I have a good colleague in the hospital with me, Joseph, an Egyptian Christian. He immigrated to the United States in 1998 after his father was shot and killed point blank range by Egyptian police men because he was celebrating Easter. Many Christian Arabs do not hold the muslim faith with respect because they lived in a muslim society, experienced TRUE oppression.

[islander]

Under the Old testament a woman who committed adultery will be stoned to death,
pero kon ingon ana pa sa New Testament daghan nang  gibatobatoan karon   
 

daghan gyod.  mahutdan pa tingalig bato.  we keep faith in our new testament, they keep faith in their koran.  or is it in the koran?

Islamic Sharia Law is based on the Qur'an, the hadith, and the biography of Mohammed.  Shia and Sunni hadith collections differ because scholars from the two traditions differ as to the reliability of the narrators and transmitters and the Imamah.  Shi'a sayings related to stoning can be found in Kitab al-Kafi, and Sunni sayings related to stoning can be found in the Sahih Bukhari and Sahih Muslim.

Based on these hadiths, in several Muslim countries, such as Afghanistan, Iran, Nigeria and Saudi Arabia, adultery is punishable by stoning.

The Qur'an forbids all sexual intercourse outside the marital bond as sinful, but makes no distinction between them.  The punishment is flogging 100 times for those found guilty.  Stoning (rajm) as a punishment for adultery is not mentioned in the Koran, so some modernist Muslim scholars like Quran alone Muslim Scholars take the view that stoning to death is not an Islamic law. (wikipedia excerpts; underscoring mine)

[islander]

The Ku Klux Klan is a racist , anti-semitic, anti-catholic, anti-orthodoxy, anti-miscegenation. This group does not represent Christianity. It feeds on the notion of White Superiority and the Inferiority of non-whites, which is totally and absolutely baseless.

fine, and their religion is not islam.  it is christianity.  they may as well be called “christian terrorists” as we tend to call "muslim terrorists" those terrorists who happen to be muslim, huh?


The burning cross
 
Cross burning is said to have been introduced byWilliam J. Simmons, the founder of the second Klan in 1915.

The second Klan adopted a burning  Latin cross as its symbol.  No such crosses had been used by the first Klan, but the burning cross was used as a symbol of intimidation by the second Klan.  The burning of the cross was also used by the second Klan as a symbol of Christian fellowship, and its lighting during meetings was steeped in Christian prayer, the singing of hymns, and other overtly religious symbolism. (wikipedia excerpts; underscoring mine)

Jesus Christ was not White European. Jesus Christ was a Semitic Hebrew. A native of Galilee.

and the world knows that...  anyway, so how is his race related to your so-called "muslim terrorists"?  i mean, why do you have to mention jesus christ's race?

[islander]

The IRA is a terrorist organization , who act directly against Catholic Doctrine, which does not support the killing of life. The One, Holy, Apostolic Roman Catholic Church reasserts the importance of human life. Born and Unborn. IRA members have utilized their actions to accomplish a political goal/ message, which is their opposition of the occupation of Northern Ireland, which is a member body of the United Kingdom of Great Britain.

and you believe those terrorists behind those picturesque posts of yours sow terror in keeping with islamic tenets?  come on.  was this your understanding of islam when you took a course on it under an imam (or was it a muslim scholar?) as you claimed?  if so, you do the course a disservice.   

here's a wee bit among countless sources...
 
Al-Qaeda ideologues envision a complete break from all foreign influences in Muslim countries, and the creation of a new Islamic world wide caliphate.  Reported beliefs include that a Christian–Jewish alliance is conspiring to destroy Islam.  Under Salafist jihadism they believe that the killing of civilians is religiously sanctioned, and they ignore religious scripture which forbids the murder of civilians and also internecine fighting.  Al-Qaeda also opposes man-made laws, and wants to replace it with a hardline form of sharia law. (wikipedia excerpts;  underscoring mine)

it looks like this fringe group's motives are somewhat socio-cultural, hiding behind their religion to justify what they do.  they do not speak for islam as the motives of the IRA who happen to be catholics do not speak for catholicism as you yourself point out.

[hubag bohol]

Stop! Stop!

Excuse me, but is our website now being used to inflame religious hatred?
 

 

[islander]

The Crusades occurred almost over a millennia ago. The Christian Church has apologized for their actions in it, the late Pope John Paul II offered his apologies for the Catholic Church's involvement in it.

The massacres of Christians by Muslims is occurring now. In the present.

past or present, it only goes to show that sowing terror is not the monopoly of muslims, as your posts seem to show, as the title of this thread seems to imply.  the period of atrocity, be it past, present or future, does not define a religion's values.  our attitudes do, much to our regret.  thus, the papal apologies:

Saving one of his most audacious initiatives for the twilight of his papacy, John Paul II yesterday attempted to purify the soul of the Roman Catholic church by making a sweeping apology for 2,000 years of violence, persecution and blunders.

From the altar of St Peter's Basilica in Rome he led Catholicism into unchartered territory by seeking forgiveness for sins committed against Jews, heretics, women, Gypsies and native peoples.

Fighting through trembles and slurrings caused by Parkinson's disease, the Pope electrified ranks of cardinals and bishops by pleading for a future that would not repeat the mistakes. "Never again," he said.

it took 2,000 years, but what matters is he apologized for christianity's/catholicism's atrocities.  viva il papa!  (thus let's not waste his apologies by fanning religious bigotry.)