Dubai Reclamation Island Is Sinking: Warning to Panglao Reclamation

[islander]

How do you know? Of course that shallow water still has sea shells as production. Gusto ba lang nimo nga ang mga taga Panglao magasige na lang ug panginhas?

how do i know?  i passed high school biology, that's how i know.  i've also read up the pros and cons of this project sans ideological stereotypes.  unsa man diay ang mahitabo kun pananglit matuman ang reclamation project, ang manginhasay sa una mahimong hoteliers?

[islander]

I thought the ideology from the left is passe but here you are displaying your leftist ideology. Planktons? Are you talking about planktons? This organism are all over the oceans of the world. Try to look at the map of the world and point with your finger where Panglao is?

ugh.  what have planktons got to do with ideology?  i am leftist just because I mentioned planktons?  am i discussing my views here with an octopus? 

what is more passe than a leftist ideology is for one to carry one's black-and-white politics of one's youth like a turtle carries its shell and start wondering why other creatures have no shells on their backs. 
 
no, thanks.  i've dipped my feet in panglao.  i don't need to point at it with my finger or my toe on a world map.  besides, i can pass off as a little mermaid at home with the planktons.

the little mermaid had enjoyed this discussion.  with thanks. 

[hubag bohol]

Hmm, will this thread continue to discombobulate the rest of us, or will it henceforth sink into oblivion?

[Way Nada]

Islander says:

[my apologies if i wonder what your basis is for such a sweeping claim (i.e., “normally leftists all over the world always try to prevent development initiated by capitalists”).  it may not stand scrutiny because it may also mean that leftists won't prevent development initiated by other sectors other than those by capitalists.]

Reply:

That is not only a claim but it is based on leftist belief that the government is the sole mover in the management of the economy. If the private sector will participate they should be taxed to the hilt. Mura'g sharia law ning klaseha sa gobierno.

Other sectors like the academe, the church, the media and others are also influenced by the left demonizing capitalists as a vain to society. They always initiate class warfare. Try to scrutinize the Obama administration. 

Islander says:

[i shudder at the jumps to a series of conclusions here; from leftists all over the world preventing development projects to china's transformation because those leftists drove the europeans to it.]

Reply:

The style of the left disrupting economic development is true! Example in the Philippines is Carnation Milk Cannery located in Marikina before... crippled in a strike by KMU workers was bought by Alaska Milk Corporation. Through arbitration the workers at Carnation Milk were integrated by Alaska at their warehouse at San Pedro, Laguna. Since the workers were affiliated with KMU they influenced the workers of Alaska Milk and the same occurrence in Marikina where they destroyed canning machinery they also employed at Alaska Milk. These leftist workers are destructive. They are not after the protection of their jobs but the destruction of the Philippine economy. This is only an example happened in the Philippines and it is also happening in other parts of the world in other shape or form.

Islander says:

[oh, one more thing, why equate capitalism with government projects and dub those against these as leftists?  is the world that black and white?]

Reply:

Why should I equate Capitalism with government projects? When I asked; "Who are against the reclamation development of Panglao... the capitalists?" These capitalists are also part of the people and of course they are not against the development of Panglao therefore what I mean is; it's the leftist who are against the development project.

Islander says:

[china was transformed because the europeans went to it from the philippines, where they shied away from leftists?  incredible.]

Reply:

Why incredible? Are you not aware of Mattel a British company packed up their things in Bataan EPZA and tranferred them to China because the KMU were destroying their machinery? Dunlop the makers of tennis balls are gone also. Try to put this in your mind! Chinese in the 70's are all wearing Mao shirts and do not understand what is Capitalism. Now China is a capitalist country.

Islander says:

[despite china's transformation today (thanks to its “leftist” aka communist and thus anti-capitalist government, if we have to go by your definition), the Bataan Export Processing Zone (BEPZ) exists today.]

Reply:

Do not put your political mind in a rigmarole. Simply put it this way. China with a communist government is adopting a capitalist economic system. That is the transformation of China. If they have workers like the KMU China cannot transform what she is today.

Islander says: 

[[It] is located in a cove at the southern tip of the Bataan Peninsula. It is about 172.3 kilometers from Manila via the Bataan Provincial Expressway and North Luzon Expressway, Gapan-Olongapo Road and Roman Highway. It has a total land area of 153.9km² representing 12% of the total land area of Bataan. (wikipedia)]

Reply:

No comment!

Islander says:

[lastly, china, a communist country (leftist to you) fired its economy with capitalistic ventures.  by making the country an example of enviable economic development, you've just revealed that being leftist and capitalist can go hand in hand after all.]

Reply:

Yes... they are adopting the capitalist economic system but is there presence of labor unions with the ferocity of a wild animal like the KMU? Does the communist system of government allowed the organization of labor unions in the public and private sectors and have granted workers the right to strike?

Of course leftist and capitalist can go hand in hand if the left does not put politics above the country's progress. Just like America before the rise of Obama. The Social Security which was initiated by Roosevelt was a leftist agenda but it did not advocate for a change in the system. This is what Americans called Liberalism!

Islander says:   

[thus, "normally all leftists all over the world try to prevent development initiated by capitalists" it isn't.]

Reply:

Don't say it is not... because right now in front of your eyes it is happening. For example in Europe big companies are taxed for polluting the environment. Airlines entering European air space are to be taxed for polluting the air. The government of Obama is trying to pass a "Cap and Trade" laws to tax plants accross the US believed to be polluting the environment. In Australia the government passed the Carbon Tax Law. All of these is war against Capitalism.

[Way Nada]

Islander says:

[how do i know?  i passed high school biology, that's how i know.  i've also read up the pros and cons of this project sans ideological stereotypes.  unsa man diay ang mahitabo kun pananglit matuman ang reclamation project, ang manginhasay sa una mahimong hoteliers?]

Reply:

You passed HS biology? There are many in Tagbilaran who gradutated course in Commerce but right at this very moment they are driving trycicle. In the countryside they cannot be employed as accountants so they are taking over the work of their father as farmers. But most they go to the Middle East to work or as domestic helps in some other countries. The chance to progress in your own land is nil because so-so folks always tried to block development projects initiated by the the capitalists.

[Way Nada]

Islander says:

[in 2010, yes, along with 29 other states, according to one data.  we all know the role of wall street in the world of finance.  well, wall st. isn't exactly leftist, huh?

Deleted..............]

Reply:

Walay "role" ang wall street sa akong boot pasabot. Imo mang gikutlo "out of context" ang akong gisulti. Ug di gani wa lang jud masabti ang ahong gisuwat. Mao ni ahong gisuwat;

"This is also the reason why California, New York, Ohio and other American states are bankrupt because of the leftist union in America. Wisconsin is trying to recover through the reform programs of Gov. Scott Walker."

Kana ako nang gisuwat dugtong mahitungod sa mga leftist nga ang gusto i-bangkarote ang mga negosyo.

Ang akong boot pasabot sa akong gisuwat ug pananglitan ang California ug nganong na-bangkarote? Tungod sa sobra ng abuso sa "government union" sa ilang "entitlement" nga dili na sayon ihatag ang ilang entitlement tungod sa kataas. Niadtong nagpakanaog ang gobierno ug mga balaod aron buhisan ang mga kapitalista wa sila [kapitalista] mosugot nga taasan ang ilang buhis mao kining mga kapitalista sa California nanglayas ngadto sa Texas, Florida, South Carolina ug sa uban pang mga estado diin sila maka negosyo nga gamay ra ang bayronon sa buhis. Mao na nga na-bangkarote karon ang California.

[chicogon]

one of my proudest moments in dubai (a very rich and very developed city) was when a filipino friend was told this by a caucasian she met on the street: you filipinos have brought laughter to this country.

... and that's the other part of me that keeps wishing Philippine stays the same - progressive but not progressive enough like the U.S.A. or other first world countries - because I want us to keep our sanity to a safe level. Progress has its price!!! 80-90 % of our people (no academic evidence though) don't even have a clue what I'm insinuating about. Too na alng god aron madali, bwahahaha!!! 

[islander]

... and that's the other part of me that keeps wishing Philippine stays the same - progressive but not progressive enough like the U.S.A. or other first world countries - because I want us to keep our sanity to a safe level. Progress has its price!!! 80-90 % of our people (no academic evidence though) don't even have a clue what I'm insinuating about. Too na alng god aron madali, bwahahaha!!! 

yes, tuo na lang ko.  some posts are getting denser at every turn, mao nga maayo tuod nga madali na lang.  let it be said though that since i am a leftist after all, then i am writing this with my left foot.

[hubag bohol]

That is not only a claim but it is based on leftist belief that the government is the sole mover in the management of the economy. If the private sector will participate they should be taxed to the hilt. Mura'g sharia law ning klaseha sa gobierno.

Other sectors like the academe, the church, the media and others are also influenced by the left demonizing capitalists as a vain to society. They always initiate class warfare. Try to scrutinize the Obama administration. 

I try not to be dragged into pedestrian thought processes but this kind of pretentious analysis makes me sick. Any tenth-rate intellectual who says "vain" instead of "bane" is a vain TB member who is a bane to this forum.   

[Way Nada]

I try not to be dragged into pedestrian thought processes but this kind of pretentious analysis makes me sick. Any tenth-rate intellectual who says "vain" instead of "bane" is a vain TB member who is a bane to this forum.   

Pretentious? Then show to me your unpretentious opinion. If you believe you are correct I'm sorry to tell you I'll stick to my usage of the word "vain". I dare you to argue with me dealing only with issues. If you are really a good english speaker com'n my friend.... don't get mad! My name is Odan Matig-a of Tagbilaran. Tell me what's yours and don't hide with an alias. The issue here is Panglao reclamation!   

[Lorenzo]

Sir Way Nada as well as Ms. Isles present very valid points and present to the table the two sides of the coin in regards to this issue regarding the Panglao Reclamation Project. We all value the intelligence and the maturity in their postings, as well as the beauty of intellectual discourse that they present for us all to share in. Let's all continue to share in the topic and respect differences in opinion. Thanks, guys.

[Lorenzo]

Islander says:

[in 2010, yes, along with 29 other states, according to one data.  we all know the role of wall street in the world of finance.  well, wall st. isn't exactly leftist, huh?

Deleted..............]

Reply:

Walay "role" ang wall street sa akong boot pasabot. Imo mang gikutlo "out of context" ang akong gisulti. Ug di gani wa lang jud masabti ang ahong gisuwat. Mao ni ahong gisuwat;

"This is also the reason why California, New York, Ohio and other American states are bankrupt because of the leftist union in America. Wisconsin is trying to recover through the reform programs of Gov. Scott Walker."

Kana ako nang gisuwat dugtong mahitungod sa mga leftist nga ang gusto i-bangkarote ang mga negosyo.

Ang akong boot pasabot sa akong gisuwat ug pananglitan ang California ug nganong na-bangkarote? Tungod sa sobra ng abuso sa "government union" sa ilang "entitlement" nga dili na sayon ihatag ang ilang entitlement tungod sa kataas. Niadtong nagpakanaog ang gobierno ug mga balaod aron buhisan ang mga kapitalista wa sila [kapitalista] mosugot nga taasan ang ilang buhis mao kining mga kapitalista sa California nanglayas ngadto sa Texas, Florida, South Carolina ug sa uban pang mga estado diin sila maka negosyo nga gamay ra ang bayronon sa buhis. Mao na nga na-bangkarote karon ang California.

Sir,

You're very accurate in regards to the situation in the states, especially that of California. One of the problems with states with liberal policies and liberal fiscal policies is that the priority is put in social services sector while not accounting for or the provisions in government to pay for said services. These past 2 years, the State of California had to actually cut down teaching positions in the state, as well as closing some mental health facilities because of the pragmatism as well as the inefficiency of the state to handle the indebtedness of the state.

While I am in no ways against social services sector, per say, especially human services profession, however, I believe that there should be a responsibility within the government to monitor the expenditure in regards to the state's income, accounting for GDP of the state. There should be a balanced view of environmentalism as well as human services agencies, but all within the ability for the state to afford said programs.

Going "all out" and spending frivolously in environmentalism as well as human services sector as what the State of California had done in years past was the catalyst for the situation the state was placed in during the 2008-2011 years. I would also say that the same phenomena is occurring in other states in the mainland.

[Lorenzo]

... and that's the other part of me that keeps wishing Philippine stays the same - progressive but not progressive enough like the U.S.A. or other first world countries - because I want us to keep our sanity to a safe level. Progress has its price!!! 80-90 % of our people (no academic evidence though) don't even have a clue what I'm insinuating about. Too na alng god aron madali, bwahahaha!!! 

he he he he! truly, there is beauty in simplicity. in simplicity, there is perfection. the moment one becomes complex, dali ra kaayo ma apektahan ang tawo og ang processes. mao na daghan kaayo ang level of depression sa industrialized nations. sa america, itawn, daghan kaayo mga patyente nga gi suffer of clinical depression! i would like to compare the depression levels of first world countries to that of developing countries; a quantitative and qualitative analysis would be good , actually.

depression-associated with over work is usually common theme sa mga patients nako. i wonder if depression is even as common in the philippines as it is here in the u.s.a.

[islander]

Going "all out" and spending frivolously in environmentalism as well as human services sector as what the State of California had done in years past was the catalyst for the situation the state was placed in during the 2008-2011 years. I would also say that the same phenomena is occurring in other states in the mainland.

so, lorenz, was this frivolous spending a leftist ideology imposed by a leftist president?  or is this one more showcase of american spending spree? 

[islander]

i wonder if depression is even as common in the philippines as it is here in the u.s.a.

not depression in the u.s. sense.  remember that devastating typhoon that flooded manila?  u.s. soldiers who were around to help were struck over how people went about retrieving what was left of their lives, smiling.  had this been in the u.s., the stress would have been unbearable with people complaining just about anything (i can't quote directly, but the sense is there... it would take me ages to retrieve the exact quote).  in adversity, the heroes in us come out.  those words are not mine either.

[Lorenzo]

so, lorenz, was this frivolous spending a leftist ideology imposed by a leftist president?  or is this one more showcase of american spending spree? 

actually, the environmentalism seen in california was not because of obama, but because of the policies enacted by past presidents such as bush sr, clinton, and even bush jr. the total and complete blame should not be placed on obama, who actually inherited a devastated american economy.

you're right tho, isles, american overconsumerism is a pivotoral reason for the financial catastrophe of '08; one contributing factor were the sub prime mortgages on homes, the uncontrolled loaning to home-owners, as well as student loans. the problem was that there was a lack of regulation. when the economy tanked, considering how the US economy is linked with the global economy, the waves was felt worldwide.

i believe that we are learning from our mistakes ; a better fiscal policy should be enacted if the united states wishes to evade similar incidents later on. but only time will tell.

[Lorenzo]

not depression in the u.s. sense.  remember that devastating typhoon that flooded manila?  u.s. soldiers who were around to help were struck over how people went about retrieving what was left of their lives, smiling.  had this been in the u.s., the stress would have been unbearable with people complaining just about anything (i can't quote directly, but the sense is there... it would take me ages to retrieve the exact quote).  in adversity, the heroes in us come out.  those words are not mine either.

yes, isles, an example of the latter was hurricane katrina. as for the filipino's ability to bear hardships with a smile, it is because the pinoys are probably used to an environment where need is common theme. poverty is quite common in the philippines, and the people have developed almost a tolerance , an increased threshold to such instances. in the united states, however, if walay kwarta, if walay trabaho, dali ra mo depend ni uncle sammy kai tagaan ra'g unemployment / welfare checks og food stamps. sa pilipinas itawn, the concept of a federally mandated welfare system does not exist in the sense that it exists in the united states.

[Lorenzo]

i also believe there is nothing wrong with environmentalism, one must take care to maintain the health of the ecology of one's nation. the absence of government's policy in protecting environment will lead to unregulated eutrophication of rivers, streams and kettle lakes.

one example of eutrophication as a result of a lack of governmental interest in environmental health is in china. the rivers and lakes of china have experienced devastating eutrophication because of the unregulation of industrial companies who merely dump waste onto rivers, streams, and lakes. one specific example is Lake Tai, Dianchi Lake.

it's actually quite sad when government adopts a purely capitalistic policy without any environmental policy. i believe there should be a balance; its all about maintaining the homeostasis of : 1) the nation's economy and 2) the nation's natural environment.


Lake Dianchi in Kunming, China. EUTROPHICATION.

[chicogon]

he he he he! truly, there is beauty in simplicity. in simplicity, there is perfection. the moment one becomes complex, dali ra kaayo ma apektahan ang tawo og ang processes. mao na daghan kaayo ang level of depression sa industrialized nations. sa america, itawn, daghan kaayo mga patyente nga gi suffer of clinical depression! i would like to compare the depression levels of first world countries to that of developing countries; a quantitative and qualitative analysis would be good , actually.

depression-associated with over work is usually common theme sa mga patients nako. i wonder if depression is even as common in the philippines as it is here in the u.s.a.

In the U.S. there's almost one mental clinic (psych ward) per city or county; in the Pihilippines, you can count a few for the whole country.... that's the big difference in the two!!! 

[chicogon]

not depression in the u.s. sense.  remember that devastating typhoon that flooded manila?  u.s. soldiers who were around to help were struck over how people went about retrieving what was left of their lives, smiling.  had this been in the u.s., the stress would have been unbearable with people complaining just about anything (i can't quote directly, but the sense is there... it would take me ages to retrieve the exact quote).  in adversity, the heroes in us come out.  those words are not mine either.

Quote me on this: I buried more people who died of clinical depression in the aftermath of Hurricane Katrina than as a direct result of the hurricane/flood itself