Dubai Reclamation Island Is Sinking: Warning to Panglao Reclamation

[Way Nada]

Ahong pasabot nga kung bato ning lugara nga i-reclaim di dili gyud ni mo-unlod. Kaning pung nga "sinking islands" sa pasipiko o asa pang dapita sa kalibutan gigamit ni sa mga "environmental alarmist" para hadlokon ang katawhan. Usa lang ka pananglitan naho nga kana si Ric Obedencio nga usa ka manunulat sa usa sa mga mantalaan sa Bohol; ijang gibalita nga ang duha ka isla sa Talibon... kalituban ug Guindakpan maunlod kuno tungod sa global warming. Kinsa man ang iyang gihadlok kundi kitang mga Bol-anon. Mao ni sila dad-on ka ug hadlok para motoo ka sa ilang issue sa environment.

WN

[renegade]

ARE U SURE ABOUT THIS??? The developers are planning to bring the mountains of Maribojoc to Panglao.  Meaning, they are going to quarry Maribojoc and supply the panambaks for the proposed project... That was and IS the real story...

Dia pa'y dugang nga info. Kining Dubai Island expected na nga mag-move mao bitaw na nga naay bukid sa Dubai nga gi-quarry nila ang bato. Ang mag-move kadtong mga gi-abuno nila sa ibabaw pero kadtong bas nga tua sa ilawom dili na to mag move kay compact na to.

Sa Panglao dili mahitabo nga mag-move kay bato ug mabaw ra ang tubig nga abunohan ug yuta. Swerte ang Bohol pero ug mo-entra na ang leftist idea nga anti capitalism mao nay ikamatay sa reclamation project.


WN

[chicogon]

Malunod jud (maski unsa pa nga klase sa Engineering) kay dili man natural (man-made, in other words). Unlike human creations, ang mga hinimo sa "nature" came into being by some "genius, mysterious but powerful design" nga tawgon na lang nato ug "God's creations." 

[Way Nada]

ARE U SURE ABOUT THIS??? The developers are planning to bring the mountains of Maribojoc to Panglao.  Meaning, they are going to quarry Maribojoc and supply the panambaks for the proposed project... That was and IS the real story...

I don't know about the issue of the Panglao reclamation is pushing through but if the project will continue my opinion is; "the engineering works are not like Dubai". I saw the area planned to be reclaimed. The water is up only to your knees and the bottom level is rock and connected to the mainland Panglao. If you try to analize that part of the seashore in Panglao... it is like a wasteland. It is unproductive because it too shallow. And you don't need to destroy mountain of Maribojoc to reclaim that part of  the seashore.

[renegade]

for me, I wont... but you can tell that to the developers......

[islander]

1. it does not follow that leftist ideology is involved just because some people are against certain government projects.  a case in point is the church's stand against the rh bill.  does that make the church leftist?

2. the reasons given by opponents of the reclamation are there for the taking.  those environmental concerns don't need a passe political ideology to lean on. 

3. talk of capitalism, and here we have a capitalist who sorely lacks capital for a project like this reclamation.

4.  no shallow sea water is ever unproductive.  it may not have whales and sharks, but it has planktons and other organisms that contribute to the biodiversity, and thus the very existence, of the whole environment. 

[Way Nada]

Islander says:

[1. it does not follow that leftist ideology is involved just because some people are against certain government projects.]

Reply:

Normally leftists all over the world always try to prevent development initiated by capitalists. For example is the EPZA in Bataan. Developed in the 1970's  during the time of Marcos when the chinese people were still raising in their hands Mao's red book. The workers in Bataan were infiltrated by leftists and wanted to bankrupt the processing zone through labor strikes. The workers were told by their leftist patrons to destroy the machinery making the European investors shied away from the Philippines and went to China. And we can see the transformation of China today.

This is also the reason why California, New York, Ohio and other American states are bankrupt because of the leftist union in America. Wisconsin is trying to recover through the reform programs of Gov. Scott Walker. 

Who are against the reclamation development of Panglao... the capitalists?

And asks:

[a case in point is the church's stand against the rh bill.  does that make the church leftist?]

Reply:

In this case the church is conservative.

Islander says:

[2. the reasons given by opponents of the reclamation are there for the taking.  those environmental concerns don't need a passe political ideology to lean on.]

Reply:

Passe political ideology? Obama's program of government is the greening of America advocated by leftist ideology. He (Obama) is a leftist. He was elected president for being a community organizer. Are you not aware of that? IPCC is a powerful committee in the UN and all leftist governments all over the world agree to this IPCC. At present leftist governments want to take over the economy of the world. Global warming is their rallying cry.

Islander says:     

[3. talk of capitalism, and here we have a capitalist who sorely lacks capital for a project like this reclamation.]

Reply:

There you are! you got the point! So it is not about the environment but capitalists lacking capital. As far as I know developers of this project are from the Arab world. So they will be bringing petro dollars to Bohol. This is a bonanza but I believe there is truth to the rumor that Filipinos adopt in their way of life... the culture of envy.

Islander says:

[4.  no shallow sea water is ever unproductive.]

Reply:

How do you know? Of course that shallow water still has sea shells as production. Gusto ba lang nimo nga ang mga taga Panglao magasige na lang ug panginhas?

Islander says:

[it may not have whales and sharks, but it has planktons and other organisms that contribute to the biodiversity, and thus the very existence, of the whole environment.]

Reply:

I thought the ideology from the left is passe but here you are displaying your leftist ideology. Planktons? Are you talking about planktons? This organism are all over the oceans of the world. Try to look at the map of the world and point with your finger where Panglao is?

[islander]

Normally leftists all over the world always try to prevent development initiated by capitalists.

my apologies if i wonder what your basis is for such a sweeping claim (i.e., “normally leftists all over the world always try to prevent development initiated by capitalists”).  it may not stand scrutiny because it may also mean that leftists won't prevent development initiated by other sectors other than those by capitalists.   

For example is the EPZA in Bataan. Developed in the 1970's  during the time of Marcos when the chinese people were still raising in their hands Mao's red book. The workers in Bataan were infiltrated by leftists and wanted to bankrupt the processing zone through labor strikes. The workers were told by their leftist patrons to destroy the machinery making the European investors shied away from the Philippines and went to China.

i shudder at the jumps to a series of conclusions here; from leftists all over the world preventing development projects to china's transformation because those leftists drove the europeans to it.

oh, one more thing, why equate capitalism with government projects and dub those against these as leftists?  is the world that black and white?

And we can see the transformation of China today.

china was transformed because the europeans went to it from the philippines, where they shied away from leftists?  incredible.

despite china's transformation today (thanks to its “leftist” aka communist and thus anti-capitalist government, if we have to go by your definition), the Bataan Export Processing Zone (BEPZ) exists today. 

[It] is located in a cove at the southern tip of the Bataan Peninsula. It is about 172.3 kilometers from Manila via the Bataan Provincial Expressway and North Luzon Expressway, Gapan-Olongapo Road and Roman Highway. It has a total land area of 153.9km² representing 12% of the total land area of Bataan. (wikipedia)

lastly, china, a communist country (leftist to you) fired its economy with capitalistic ventures.  by making the country an example of enviable economic development, you've just revealed that being leftist and capitalist can go hand in hand after all. 

thus, "normally all leftists all over the world try to prevent development initiated by capitalists" it isn't.

[islander]

This is also the reason why California, New York, Ohio and other American states are bankrupt because of the leftist union in America. Wisconsin is trying to recover through the reform programs of Gov. Scott Walker.

in 2010, yes, along with 29 other states, according to one data.  we all know the role of wall street in the world of finance.  well, wall st. isn't exactly leftist, huh? 

wall street greed, american overconsumption and extreme indebtedness of the u.s. economy are just three of the myriad of causes of american recession that eventually became global.  besides, no leftist union in the u.s., if ever such a kind exists as you claim, can bankrupt the whole country; no analysis mentions such leftist union as the cause of the recession.  if ever you come across one, and maybe you have because of your stated claim, please share your reference.  i can hardly wait to read it.

[chicogon]

  Minaw lang kos mga brayt kay leftist baja kos una nahimong karong capitalist bwahaha 

[islander]

Who are against the reclamation development of Panglao... the capitalists?

because it comes naturally to you to brand people opposed to certain projects as “leftists”, let me first share with you what my understanding is of the word (thanks to merriam-webster), which i believe is far from those so-called “leftists” of your youth in the '60s and '70s that you seem to carry over until now like a turtle carries its shell.
 
In politics, the Left, left-wing and leftists are people or views which generally support social change to create a more egalitarian society.  They usually involve a concern for those in society who are disadvantaged relative to others and an assumption that there are unjustified inequalities (which right-wing politics views as natural or traditional) that should be reduced or abolished.

the way i see it, leftists are not necessarily anti-capitalist, as you claim.  they're simply the opposite of rightists.  and rightists need not be capitalists.

so what is a capitalist?  he is but “A wealthy person who uses money to invest in trade and industry for profit in accordance with the principles of capitalism”.

Capitalism, meanwhile, is “an economic system characterized by private or corporate ownership of capital goods, by investments that are determined by private decision, and by prices, production, and the distribution of goods that are determined mainly by competition in a free market”. 

i cannot imagine that opponents of the reclamation project like the PARE are leftists.  some are local government officials, others are fisherfolk out to defend their source of livelihood, still others are environmentalists.  it's not fair to lump all of them together as leftists and the likes of you and those who favor the project as rightists.  besides, it's silly to inject ideologies to a proposed tourism infrastructure project.  we're not talking of a new form of government here, right?     

[Lorenzo]

Minaw lang kos mga brayt kay leftist baja kos una nahimong karong capitalist bwahaha 

such is the flow of things, Father. Normally, people tend to be left-leaning in their youth, then change views later on in life.

bwahahaha

[Lorenzo]

i must say that both Ms. Isles and Sir Way Nada have credible points. Good job on the retorts, guys. keep it coming....

[islander]

Minaw lang kos mga brayt kay leftist baja kos una nahimong karong capitalist bwahaha 

maayo na lang... makalingaw mi sa gahilomhilom nga brayt labaw.

variations of the same theme:

   Any man who is not a socialist at age 20 has no heart.
   Any man who is still a socialist at age 40 has no head.
                              -attributed to Georges Clemenceau

Bennet Cerf once reported Clemenceau's response to a visitor's alarm about his son being a communist:

   If he had not become a Communist at 22, I would have disowned him.
   If he is still a Communist at 30, I will do it then.

philippine version:

   at 20, a man is a communist.
   at 30, he is a socialist.
   at 40, he is a capitalist.

pakapin:

   at 50, he is a pensioner.
   at 60, he is a senior citizen on discount privileges.
   at 70, nearer my god to thee.
   

[Lorenzo]

bwahahahahahaha!

[chicogon]

i must say that both Ms. Isles and Sir Way Nada have credible points. Good job on the retorts, guys. keep it coming....

Both have good arguments but I tend to side with Ms. Isle. I think injecting ideologies to infrastructure developments in Bohol this early (or without evidence) makes no sense; on the other hand, it's easier to point fingers to politics as cause of this commotion.

If I was 20, I would have been against anything - just anything. Now, I'm for all kinds of developments... from self to infrastrcutures. Whatevah!  I'm a Pinoy and envious of what I've seen elsewhere. 

[islander]

In this case the church is conservative.

as obama is a liberal.

is the church not leftist in this case for you because it is not opposing a project by capitalists?  what if we find out that it's a project by colonialists instead?  will the opponents this time be called natives?  just asking.

well, some of those who oppose the reclamation project may not give a whit about ideology at all when the very survival of their source of livelihood is at stake.     

[islander]

If I was 20, I would have been against anything - just anything.

no wonder your dad did not disown you.

Now, I'm for all kinds of developments... from self to infrastrcutures. Whatevah!  I'm a Pinoy and envious of what I've seen elsewhere. 

admittedly, so am i, most especially of europe and its heritage. 

but to each his country's own time.  it's great to develop (materially, in this sense), but without losing sight of our priorities.  we have become what we are with what we have, and i believe we like what we are.  why be like, say, singapore, which developed so fast while its population, socially pressured to reach for the skies materially, have become generally cold and inconsiderate (with apologies to the exceptions). 

meanwhile, despite of or because of our pace of material development, we can still say that we have remained true to our faith and values and traditions and have remained a smiling people.

one of my proudest moments in dubai (a very rich and very developed city) was when a filipino friend was told this by a caucasian she met on the street: you filipinos have brought laughter to this country.

[islander]

Passe political ideology? Obama's program of government is the greening of America advocated by leftist ideology. He (Obama) is a leftist. He was elected president for being a community organizer. Are you not aware of that? IPCC is a powerful committee in the UN and all leftist governments all over the world agree to this IPCC. At present leftist governments want to take over the economy of the world. Global warming is their rallying cry.

heavens.  now you're in the position to call another country's president as leftist.  no, i'm not aware that he was elected for being a community organizer.  i doubt too that americans who voted him into office had that as their reason.  to be concerned with the environment is to be leftist?

the  Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC) of the UN is a leftist concern?  worse, leftist governments want to take over the world's economy?  please share more research-based claims with references and not imaginary figments of paranoia.  and please tell me this is not science fiction nor manga comics.

[islander]

There you are! you got the point! So it is not about the environment but capitalists lacking capital. As far as I know developers of this project are from the Arab world. So they will be bringing petro dollars to Bohol. This is a bonanza but I believe there is truth to the rumor that Filipinos adopt in their way of life... the culture of envy.

yes, i'm here, and unfortunately you didn't get my point.  i mentioned this detail on capital because you call those who oppose the project as “leftists” who are against “capitalism”.  the mere mention of "capitalists" is not about doing away with the environment.  the game is football and you want to score with slam dunks?  by the way, sacrificing one's environmental diversity for petro dollars is no cause for envy.

meanwhile, please read up on the requirements of putting up a project such as this, which the proponents are said to have failed to meet.  the links:
   
http://tubagbohol.mikeligalig.com/index.php?topic=38469.0
http://www.theboholstandard.com/fpage.php?issue=240&s1