Military History Discussion Board

[Lorenzo]

The topic of this board is to discuss and debate the historical military operations, theaters of war, and all that it entails.

Join me, and let us talk about Military History. Members will ask questions about anything related to military history and will be given answers or opinions of said subject matter.

Note: Please keep this thread strictly subject matter related. Thank You.

[cujo]

My question is did U.S. won the vietnam war ?

[Lorenzo]

The United States , technically speaking, did not win the Vietnam Conflict. The reasons for entering Vietnam was to support the Democracy in fledgling South Vietnam. South Vietnam was ultimately defeated, and the United States forced to retreat. Strategically speaking, the goal was not achieved. Effectively speaking, America's presence in the region led to an anti-communist fervor in surrounding countries, which did help contain communism (Vietnam, Cambodia and Laos being the battle ground states).

There are those who would consider the operations in the Vietnam being a failure, while there are others that would say that America did not loose the War because America did not officially declare war on Vietnam (North Vietnam in this case), but merely initiated a police containment policy.

For myself, I subscribe to the former. (tho one can debate the conflict being a War, considering a declaration of War was never issued by the United States Government..)

Your view?

[cujo]

You are correct.My husband was a U.S. Marine in Vietnam shot twice,one from the enemy and one from friendly fire.Thank God he is complete and hates to admit that U.S. did not won that war.So far nobody won a war since the allies won in WWll ?

[Lorenzo]

I don't think wars are fought the same way that they were fought say..5-6 decades ago in the sense that nations nowadays don't declare war on one another. Nation states initiate military operations behind enemy lines without declaring war.

In Vietnam, America was not only fighting the Army of North Vietnam (as well as  Viet-Cong), but was fighting the Chinese & Russians so to say. America was fighting with one hand tied behind her back:

1. The military operation in Vietnam was unpopular and led to widespread protests in the country
    1b. The military conflict still accessed troops via the military draft, the effects of the war led to the repudiation of the draft process
2. North Vietnam was receiving military and technical aid from both China and the USSR
3. South Vietnam was loosing ground

In my opinion, the United States should have left Vietnam as what the French did during the 1950s. The objectives in entering the theater never materialized, not only did South Vietnam collapse , but over 50,000 American soldiers were killed in the fighting, thousands MIA, and tens of thousands wounded or maimed. The Domino Effect did not happen after-all, as was originally feared.

[Chongki]

pakialamero ang u.s. of a

[Lorenzo]

So far nobody won a war since the allies won in WWll ?

You're right, Ms. Cujo, the last Declaration of War that the United States gave was during the beginning of the World War II. After that war, the United States' military operations were enacted by Congress (undeclared wars) or in cooperation and/or in compliance with the United Nations' Security Council military resolutions. The last significant one being "Operation Enduring Freedom" (Iraq).

Other nations are applying this trend. The most noticeable one was the 1982 Falkland War. When Argentine forces invaded the Falklands, they never declared war on the Government of the United Kingdom.

The most recent one would be the 2008 Russian Invasion of the Republic of Georgia; both parties did not declare war on each other. Russia initiated a unilateral cease, no peace treaties were signed (since no declaration of war was pronounced).

The way wars/conflicts are being handled have changed.

[hubag bohol]

pakialamero ang u.s. of a

Mabasa sa military history nga kining nasora dili lang pakialamero, abusado pa jud...

[Lorenzo]

1) Was it a tactical mistake for the United States Army & Philippine Commonwealth Defense Forces to surrender to the Japanese?
2) Was a prolonged defense possible?

[cujo]

Mabasa sa military history nga kining nasora dili lang pakialamero, abusado pa jud...

 That's right Gen. Jacob H. Smith,U.S. Army officer,a civil war soldier,who ordered the massacre of Filipino civilians during The Phil.-American war.It happened long time ago.The U.S. military nowadays are not that barbaric.

[islander]

The topic of this board is to discuss and debate the historical military operations, theaters of war, and all that it entails.

Join me, and let us talk about Military History. Members will ask questions about anything related to military history and will be given answers or opinions of said subject matter.

Note: Please keep this thread strictly subject matter related. Thank You.

1)  we surely can give personal opinions on military operations as can be gleaned from our readings and history lessons, but discuss and debate?  boy, would i be glad to know that there are military strategists among us here at tb! 

2)  who will the members ask?
 
   

[islander]

pakialamero ang u.s. of a

yes!

Mabasa sa military history nga kining nasora dili lang pakialamero, abusado pa jud...

balangiga's infamous "howling wilderness"?!

That's right Gen. Jacob H. Smith,U.S. Army officer,a civil war soldier,who ordered the massacre of Filipino civilians during The Phil.-American war.It happened long time ago.The U.S. military nowadays are not that barbaric.

true, cuj.  in fact, soldiers then as now are supposed to be trained and steeped in professionalism.  it is on hindsight, in the judgment of history, when their acts in and especially during decisive moments in battle are deemed heroic or barbaric.

more currently, history's judgment already veers on the negative on the 1968 my lai massacre in south vietnam.

"The My Lai Massacre was the mass murder conducted by a unit of the U.S. Army on March 16, 1968 of 347–504 unarmed citizens in South Vietnam, all of whom were civilians and a majority of whom were women, children (including babies) and elderly people.

Many of the victims were sexually abused, beaten, tortured, and some of the bodies were found mutilated.  The massacre took place in the hamlets of Mỹ Lai and My Khe of Sơn Mỹ village during the Vietnam War.  While 26 U.S. soldiers were initially charged with criminal offenses for their actions at My Lai, only William Calley was convicted. He served only three years of an original life sentence, while on house arrest.

When the incident became public knowledge in 1969, it prompted widespread outrage around the world. The massacre also increased domestic opposition to the U.S. involvement in the Vietnam War. Three U.S. servicemen who made an effort to halt the massacre and protect the wounded were denounced by U.S. Congressmen, received hate mail and death threats and found mutilated animals on their doorsteps.  Only 30 years after the event were their efforts honored." (from wikipedia)

then there's the guantanamo and abu ghraib torture and abuse of prisoners.

sometimes, barbarism is not so ancient after all.
 

[Lorenzo]

The operations in Vietnam resounded some of the errors that the McKinley Administration procured during the Philippine-American War (Philippine Insurrection, as it is called by some American Historians).

The way the military (U.S) operated and carried out battle-field tactics was deplorable. It is estimated that close to 1-2 million Filipinos perished in that war (military & civilian).

The war in the Philippines was a subject of debate within members of Congress and within the American people; it was an unpopular war. Because of it, there were increased differences between the American Pro-Imperialist League and the American Anti-Imperialist League. The heightened opposition to the American involvement in the Philippines resulted in McKinley's untimely demise, he was assassinated.

[Lorenzo]

I present the following questions:


1. Do you think that Japan was capable of defeating the United States in its Pacific War?
2. What would you have done differently (if you were in command) in executing the war to Japan's favor?