Author Topic: Original sin or Innocence  (Read 1292 times)

fdaray

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Original sin or Innocence
« on: April 30, 2009, 09:55:57 AM »
PERCEPTIONS OF SIN: CHRISTIANITY AND ISLAM

First of all, it is necessary to understand what we mean by “sin”. This is important, because different religious communities have different perceptions about sin.
Sin is a concept used primarily in the Abrahamic religions [Judaism, Christianity, and Islam] describing a transgression against the will of God, which calls for repentance and at times penance.

Judaism regards the breaking of the commandments or the Jewish Law to be a sin. The Jews believe that all people sin at various points in their lives, and hold that the divine justice is tempered with divine mercy.

According to them, a state of sin does not condemn a person to damnation; only one or two truly grievous sins lead to anything like the Christian idea of hell. Their liturgy of “the Days of Awe” states that prayer, repentance and charity are the means of atonement for sin.

As for Protestant Christians use the term ‘sin’ primarily to refer to what they see as “humanity's inherently sinful nature”. This is while the Catholics mostly use the word for actual instances of sin, calling “the sinful nature of humans” as “concupiscence”, in the sense of ‘an innate tendency of human beings to do evil’.

Most denominations of Christianity hold the belief that the sin of Adam and Eve's disobedience to God is passed on to their descendants and thus the whole of mankind is accursed with that Original Sin, from which no salvation is possible unless one believes in the atoning death on the cross of the Son of God.

As for the Islamic view of sin, it is similar to the Jewish view. In fact, the religion of Islam is the natural culmination of the progressive revelation of God from the very first prophet to the last one, Prophet Muhammad (pbuh). Consequently, Islam believes in all prophets of God, from Adam to Muhammad, including Abraham, Moses and Jesus (peace be upon them all).

According to the Islamic creed, the original religion taught by all these prophets is and was always Islam, which is the peaceful submission to the One and Only God. Thus, the concept of sin as taught by all prophets of God ought to be the same.

The closeness between Judaism and Islam in this regard is obvious; but in Christianity we find a great difference, which results from the influence of Saul of Tarsus, who is later known as St Paul. Paul introduced into Christianity the ideas of ‘God becoming man’ and ‘God dying for the sins of man’. Such concepts are entirely alien to the Semitic religious tradition and considered ‘pagan’, according to the Islamic view.

In Islam, a sin is an act against the will of Allah. We have the ability to abide by His will and this is the meaning of the word Islam. Still we have the ability to ignore His will or deliberately oppose it; due to the fact that God has given us freedom - though within limits).

Islam is our conscious and peaceful submission to the will of Allah. The purpose of our existence as human beings is to worship and serve Allah – or to fulfill His will. And, a solid foundation of worshipping Allah is to show gratitude to Him for the great gifts He has granted us. Following this will bring us the greatest benefits in this life and the next. It is in trying to do this that our intentions are purified and it is by our intentions that we are judged.

In contrast to the Christian teaching that human nature is basically evil [owing to the Original Sin], Islam teaches that it is essentially good. There are many elements to Human nature and each one has the potential to bring benefits. So there is no "Original Sin" in Islam. It is that when Man contradicts God’s commandments or His will, he commits sins.

Adam committed such a sin, which led to his expulsion from the Garden of Eden. But Adam repented and prayed to God for forgiveness, which God granted him, as mentioned in the following in Surah 2, verse 37:

*{Then learnt Adam from his Lord words of inspiration, and his Lord turned towards him; for He is Oft-returning, Most Merciful.}*

This means that unlike Christianity, which teaches that all the children of Adam are sinful for Adam’s sin, Islam teaches that all humans are innocent by birth and they become sinful only when they consciously commit a sin. Islam regards the concept of “original sin” and the need for atonement by God Himself - via dying on the Cross - as a pure invention of those who came after Jesus Christ, declaring themselves as Christians.

Another important point to bear in mind about the Islamic concept of sin is that one man’s sin cannot be transferred to another; nor can the reward due to a person be transferred either. Every individual is responsible only for his or her actions, for God is never unjust. This is made clear in the following in Surah 17, verse 15:
*{Who receiveth guidance, receiveth it for his own benefit: who goeth astray doth so to his own loss. No bearer of burdens can bear the burden of another: nor would We punish until We had sent a messenger [to give warning].}*

Every individual is an independent person who is responsible for his or her actions alone. There is no need for salvation from sin, for there is no original burden. One's success in the Hereafter lies in his living a righteous life in this world. Each has to build his/her own Heaven, avoiding the misery of Hell. Faith is important, but faith alone without deeds will be fruitless.

And, Allah knows best.
 
   
   


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Lorenzo

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Re: Original sin or Innocence
« Reply #1 on: April 30, 2009, 10:37:49 AM »
I am surprised in this post, Mr. Daray.

I will state my case:


Islam is a faulted religion.

As it promises materialistic things.

It promises 100 virgins for men in Heaven. When does God promise materialistic things?
Nowhere does God tell us in The Old Testament or New Testament that he will provide us with materialistic things such as Virgin women.

No where!

The Heaven that Islam promises is a Brothel House:


“As for the righteous, they shall surely triumph. Theirs shall be gardens and vineyards, and high-bosomed virgins for companions: a truly overflowing cup.” (Koran 78:31)
 
“...They will sit with bashful, dark-eyed virgins, as chaste as the sheltered eggs of ostriches.” (Koran 37:40-48)
 
“...Yes and We shall wed them to dark-eyed houris (beautiful virgins).” (Koran 44:51-55)
 
“...They shall recline on couches ranged in rows. To dark-eyed houris (virgins) we shall wed them...” (Koran 52:17-20)
 
“In them will be bashful virgins neither man nor Jinn will have touched before. Then which of the favours of your Lord will you deny?" (Koran 55:56-57)
 
“Virgins as fair as corals and rubies.  Then which of the favours of your Lord will you deny?" (Koran 55:57-58)
 
“...We created the houris (the beautiful women) and made them virgins, loving companions for those on the right hand...” (Koran 56:7-40)
 
"In each there shall be virgins chaste and fair... Dark eyed virgins sheltered in their tents whom neither man nor Jinn will have touched before...” (Koran 55:70-77)

“Round about them will serve, to them, boys (handsome) as pearls well-guarded.” (Koran 52:24)
 
“Round about them will serve boys of perpetual freshness.” (Koran 56:17)
 
“And round about them will serve boys of perpetual freshness: if thou seest them, thou wouldst think them scattered pearls.” (Koran 76:19)

---

I repeat, the Heaven that Muhammad promises in Islam is not heaven. But a brothel house. A den for whores and prostitutes. A Den of Sin.

The environment that the heaven in Islam promises is the same as a house in Sodom and Gamorrah. Sodom and Gamorrah were the two cities that the Lord God Most High smote into oblivion for their sexual sins and blasphemies.

God Doe snot promise materialistic treasures in Heaven. Let alone sexual satisfaction.

That belongs to the Devil. Satan the serpant. May the Lord God REBUKE him!







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Lorenzo

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Re: Original sin or Innocence
« Reply #2 on: April 30, 2009, 10:44:30 AM »
Why Muhammad Is NOT a Prophet


Muhammad claims to follow in the footsteps of the prophets:


 

Lo! We inspire thee as We inspired Noah and the prophets after him, as We inspired Abraham and Ishmael and Isaac and Jacob and the tribes, and Jesus and Job and Jonah and Aaron and Solomon, and as We imparted unto David the Psalms; S. 4:136

 

"The Messenger believeth in what hath been revealed to him from his Lord, as do the men of faith. Each one (of them) believeth in Allah, His angels, HIS BOOKS (kutubihi), and His messengers. ‘We make no distinction (they say) between one and another of His messengers.’ And they say: ‘We hear, and we obey: (we seek) Thy forgiveness, our Lord, and to Thee is the end of all journeys.’" S. 2:285

 

“And afterward We inspired thee (Muhammad, saying): Follow the religion of Abraham, as one by nature upright. He was not of the idolaters.” 16:123

 

Therefore hold fast to that which has been revealed to you; surely you are on the right path. And most surely it is a reminder for you and your people, and you shall soon be questioned. And ask those of Our apostles whom We sent before you: Did We ever appoint gods to be worshiped besides the Beneficent God? S. 43:43-45 Shakir

 

Muhammad is even told to follow the previous guidance and to confirm his message with the previous scripture:


 

Now then, for that (reason), call (them to the Faith), and stand steadfast as thou art commanded, nor follow thou their vain desires; but say: "I believe in whatever Book Allah has sent down; and I am commanded to judge justly between you. Allah is our Lord and your Lord: for us (is the responsibility for) our deeds, and for you for your deeds. There is no contention between us and you. Allah will bring us together, and to Him is (our) final goal. S. 42:15

 

Those are they unto whom We gave the Scripture and command and prophethood. But if these disbelieve therein, then indeed We shall entrust it to a people who will not be disbelievers therein. Those are they whom Allah guideth, so follow their guidance. Say (O Muhammad, unto mankind): I ask of you no fee for it. Lo! it is naught but a Reminder to (His) creatures. S. 6:89-90
 

And if thou (Muhammad) art in doubt concerning that which We reveal unto thee, then question those who read the Scripture (that was) before thee. Verily the Truth from thy Lord hath come unto thee. So be not thou of the waverers. And be not thou of those who deny the revelations of Allah, for then wert thou of the losers. S. 10:94-95

 

This means that his message must be consistent with the prophets that went before him. The Bible says that Jesus is the seal of revelation, and that all prophets after him must come in his authority and preach the eternal Gospel of Christ:

 

“Do not work for the food which perishes, but for the food which endures to eternal life, which the Son of Man will give to you, for on Him the Father, God, has set His seal.” John 6:27

 

"Therefore, behold, I AM SENDING you prophets and wise men and scribes; some of them you will kill and crucify, and some of them you will scourge in your synagogues, and persecute from city to city,” Matthew 23:34

 

“Now the God of peace, who brought up from the dead the great Shepherd of the sheep through the blood of the eternal covenant, even Jesus our Lord,” Hebrews 13:20

 

“And I saw another angel flying in midheaven, having an eternal gospel to preach to those who live on the earth, and to every nation and tribe and tongue and people;” Revelation 14:6

 

“Then I fell at his feet to worship him. But he said to me, ‘Do not do that; I am a fellow servant of yours and your brethren who hold the testimony of Jesus; worship God. For the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy.” Revelation 19:10

 

Since Muhammad contradicted the message of Christ, denying his divine sonship, his message is therefore not from the true God:


 

“Who is the liar? It is the man who denies that Jesus is the Christ. Such a man is the antichrist--he denies the Father and the Son. No one who denies the Son has the Father; whoever acknowledges the Son has the Father also.” 1 John 2:22-23

 

In fact, he ends up calling God a liar:


 

“We accept man's testimony, but God's testimony is greater because it is the testimony of God, which he has given about his Son. Anyone who believes in the Son of God has this testimony in his heart. Anyone who does not believe God has made him out to be a liar, because he has not believed the testimony God has given about his Son. And this is the testimony: God has given us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. He who has the Son has life; he who does not have the Son of God does not have life. I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God so that you may know that you have eternal life.” 1 John 5:9-13

 

Since God is not a liar, then Muhammad is not a prophet.


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fdaray

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Re: Original sin or Innocence
« Reply #3 on: April 30, 2009, 11:12:23 AM »
Brod lorenzo,


A ko lang gi differentiate kon unsa ang sala sa Islam o sa Christians.

I do not comdemned Islam or any religion. Different religious sects are
right in their own way.


May God bless us.



"Holy, holy, holy is the Lord of hosts."
—Isaiah 6:3


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Lorenzo

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Re: Original sin or Innocence
« Reply #4 on: April 30, 2009, 11:56:02 AM »
It is poignant for us to contemplate on the differences as well as similarities between the two religions, however, there are start differences that go against the ideal precepts of Christianity.

My argument, which is solely based on Biblical Scripture, is that Islam denies Christ. It denies the divinity of Christ's Divine sonship. It denies that Christ died on the Cross, rather they suppose was a mere prophet.

In the Quran, Mr. Daray, Muhammad claims that Christians are blasphemers because, according to its teachings, Christians worship a man. There are many verses in the Quran that calls for the murder and forced conversion of Christians and Jews and actively calls for the killing of those who do not convert. Forced conversion.


What the Quran says about Christians and Jews:

Sura (2:191-193) - "And slay them wherever ye find them, and drive them out of the places whence they drove you out, for persecution [of Muslims] is worse than slaughter [of non-believers]...and fight them until persecution is no more, and religion is for Allah." There is a good case to be made that the overall context of these verses is defensive war, however, there are two worrisome pieces to this passage. The first is that the killing of others is authorized in the event of "persecution." The second is that fighting may persist until "religion is for Allah."



Sura (2:244) - "Then fight in the cause of Allah, and know that Allah Heareth and knoweth all things."



Sura (2:216) - "Fighting is prescribed for you, and ye dislike it. But it is possible that ye dislike a thing which is good for you, and that ye love a thing which is bad for you. But Allah knoweth, and ye know not."



Sura (3:56) - "As to those who reject faith, I will punish them with terrible agony in this world and in the Hereafter, nor will they have anyone to help."



Sura (3:151) - "Soon shall We cast terror into the hearts of the Unbelievers, for that they joined companions with Allah, for which He had sent no authority". This speaks directly of killing Christians, since they believe in the Trinity (ie. what Muhammad incorrectly believed to be 'joining companions to Allah').



Sura (4:74) - "Let those fight in the way of Allah who sell the life of this world for the other. Whoso fighteth in the way of Allah, be he slain or be he victorious, on him We shall bestow a vast reward."



Sura (4:76) - "Those who believe fight in the cause of Allah…"



Sura (4:89) - "They but wish that ye should reject Faith, as they do, and thus be on the same footing (as they): But take not friends from their ranks until they flee in the way of Allah (From what is forbidden). But if they turn renegades, seize them and slay them wherever ye find them; and (in any case) take no friends or helpers from their ranks."



Sura (4:95) - "Not equal are those believers who sit (at home) and receive no hurt, and those who strive and fight in the cause of Allah with their goods and their persons. Allah hath granted a grade higher to those who strive and fight with their goods and persons than to those who sit (at home). Unto all (in Faith) Hath Allah promised good: But those who strive and fight Hath He distinguished above those who sit (at home) by a special reward,-" This passage not only criticizes "peaceful" Muslims who do not join in the violence, but also demolishes the modern myth that "Jihad" doesn't mean holy war in the Qur'an, but rather a spiritual struggle. Not only is the Arabic word used in this passage, but it is clearly not referring to anything spiritual, since the physically disabled are given exemption. (The Hadith reveals the context of the passage to be in response to a blind man's protest that he is unable to engage in Jihad).



Sura (4:104) - "And be not weak hearted in pursuit of the enemy; if you suffer pain, then surely they (too) suffer pain as you suffer pain..." Pursuing an injured enemy is not an act of self-defense.



Sura (5:33) - "The punishment of those who wage war against Allah and His messenger and strive to make mischief in the land is only this, that they should be murdered or crucified or their hands and their feet should be cut off on opposite sides or they should be imprisoned; this shall be as a disgrace for them in this world, and in the hereafter they shall have a grievous chastisement"



Sura (8:12) - "I will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Therefore strike off their heads and strike off every fingertip of them"



Sura (8:15) - "O ye who believe! When ye meet those who disbelieve in battle, turn not your backs to them. (16)Whoso on that day turneth his back to them, unless maneuvering for battle or intent to join a company, he truly hath incurred wrath from Allah, and his habitation will be hell, a hapless journey's end."



Sura (8:39) - "And fight with them until there is no more persecution and religion should be only for Allah"



Sura (8:57) - "If thou comest on them in the war, deal with them so as to strike fear in those who are behind them, that haply they may remember."



Sura (8:59-60) - "And let not those who disbelieve suppose that they can outstrip (Allah's Purpose). Lo! they cannot escape. Make ready for them all thou canst of (armed) force and of horses tethered, that thereby ye may dismay the enemy of Allah and your enemy."



Sura (9:5) - "So when the sacred months have passed away, then slay the idolaters wherever you find them, and take them captives and besiege them and lie in wait for them in every ambush, then if they repent and keep up prayer and pay the poor-rate, leave their way free to them."



Sura (9:14) - "Fight them, Allah will punish them by your hands and bring them to disgrace..."



Sura (9:20) - "Those who believe, and have left their homes and striven with their wealth and their lives in Allah's way are of much greater worth in Allah's sight. These are they who are triumphant." The "striving" spoken of here is Jihad.

Sura (9:30) - "And the Jews say: Ezra is the son of Allah; and the Christians say: The Messiah is the son of Allah; these are the words of their mouths; they imitate the saying of those who disbelieved before; may Allah destroy them; how they are turned away!"



Bukhari (52:177) - Allah's Apostle said, "The Hour will not be established until you fight with the Jews, and the stone behind which a Jew will be hiding will say. "O Muslim! There is a Jew hiding behind me, so kill him."






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Lorenzo

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Re: Original sin or Innocence
« Reply #5 on: April 30, 2009, 12:01:02 PM »
In college, Mr. Daray, I minored in Religious studies and took 4 courses just on comparative studies on Middle Eastern Monotheistic Religions (Judaism, Christianity, Islam).

And I say this with honesty in my heart, that out of the 3 religions, it is only Islam that professes to forcibly convert or declares death of Christians or Jews; even the killing of Muslims that leave Islam for another faith.

There are no texts in the Holy Bible that calls for the stoning of Jews or Christians for merly not believing in Christ.

Christian ideology and teachings correlate with Talmudic or other wise known as Old Testament precepts that calls for Human Free Will. One is free to choose salvation, or refusal of said salvation.

There is no biblical verse that calls for the death of those who leave Christianity.

On the contrary, Biblical Scripture tells us to pray for our enemies and forgive the transgressors.



God Bless.


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Lorenzo

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Re: Original sin or Innocence
« Reply #6 on: April 30, 2009, 12:10:25 PM »
This is a great topic, Mr. Daray, at least it will expose the truths what the Qu'ran professes and teaches to Muslims.

Prior to my taking courses on Islam 1, 2, and 3, admittingly, I knew little of Islam and its teachings. My predisposed knowledge was that it was similar to Judaism and Christianity, and similar prophets and messages.

When I took the courses, I realized that there was indeed a stark difference between Judaism (Talmud) and Christianity (Old and New Testaments in the Holy Bible). The prophets in the Talmud are reiterated role by role in the Old Testament.

In the Quran, the roles of the prophets differ, let alone the names of individuals and  lineage. The Quran mitigates the role of Israel, rather, puts more emphasis on the Arab, and the profession of faith and the spread of the Islamic Faith.

If you read into Arabic History, particularly the history of the Arabic Caliphate, you will understand that through the influence of the Mamelukes, the Caliphate, the Ottomans, and even by Muhammad himself, that the faith of Islam was spread through the sword. Forced coversion, under penalty of death.

Throughout Christendom, the spread of the faith was completley voluntary. We see the reversal and opposite; during the age of the Early Church, many christians were put to death as martyrs for refusing to relinquish their faith.

We see the antithesis in Islam in Islamic historiography.





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Raquelproud boholana

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Re: Original sin or Innocence
« Reply #7 on: April 30, 2009, 10:26:16 PM »
"Islam is a faulted Religion" yes you are right Lorenzo.  They call someone martyr kung mosugot nga mag strap ug bomb sa ila lawas para daghan mamatay inosente esp. jews ug christian mao ba intawon nay martyr.

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Lorenzo

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Re: Original sin or Innocence
« Reply #8 on: April 30, 2009, 10:45:33 PM »
Raquel, that is so sad but true, ma'am. It pains my heart to read stories of such, when muslims enroll in jihad and suicidal attacks.

They claim so that it is the will of their god to die for allah.

But to kill? To kill is a grave sin! The Lord Our God specifically told us, children of Israel (Jews and Christians) that murder is an abominable act.

Let us remember The 10 Commandments that the Lord Reminds us.

The 10 commandments come from Exodus 20:1-17. Here is the verse:

And God spoke all these words, saying: "I am the Lord your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage.

   1. You shall have no other gods before me.
       
   2. You shall not make for yourself any carved image, or any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth; you shall not bow down to them nor serve them. For I, the Lord your God, am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the children to the third and fourth generations of those who hate me, but showing mercy to thousands, to those who love Me and keep My commandments.
       
   3. You shall not take the name of the Lord your God in vain, for the Lord will not hold him guiltless who takes His name in vain.
       
   4. Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. Six days you shall labor and do all your work, but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the Lord your God. In it you shall do no work: you, nor your son, nor your daughter, nor your manservant, nor your maidservant, nor your cattle, nor your stranger who is within your gates. For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested the seventh day. Therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and hallowed it.
       
   5. Honor your father and your mother, that your days may be long upon the land which the Lord your God is giving you.
       
   6. You shall not murder.
       
   7. You shall not commit adultery.
       
   8. You shall not steal.
       
   9. You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor.
       
  10. You shall not covet your neighbor’s house; you shall not covet your neighbor’s wife, nor his manservant, nor his maidservant, nor his ox, nor his donkey, nor anything that is your neighbor’s."




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